I don't think the vaporware label means that people think that Adventurine is BSing, or whatever. Most people just label it in the same category as Duke Nukem Forever. A game that may never see the light of day.
I agree 100% there; any game is a candidate for the vaporware label until it makes it to launch. Even AoC and WAR. With varying possibility ofc...
Oh for sure! Look at some of the more recent games to become Vaporware.
1. Gods and Heroes - This game actually hit beta and STILL ended up in the trashcan.
2. Marvel Universe Online- With an IP like that you'd never think it would get cancelled...but it did
3. Star Trek Online - Same as above, though I don't think this one is officially cancelled, but it's definitely headed in that direction.
So yeah, any game can be vaporware. I think it really depends on who is posting. Some people just think cry vaporware because they want DF to fail, some because they really want it to come out and are frustrated it's taking too long, and some (as rare as they are) because it just kinda fits the description right now. I say it's not vaporware until it's completely gone out of production I.E. Gods and Heroes, but thats just my personal definition.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
Originally posted by GaladournOriginally posted by mbrandybuck Makes a lot of sense too. Let's see.... Hmmmm... You and I have a company developing a huge, feature laden game where we stand to make possibly millions of dollars. Let me think now.... Who can we get to give our game a try? Hmmmm.... IGN? Nah... Gamespot? Nah.... Mmorpg.com? Nah... I know! Asp! Perfect!
Tell me
1)How do you know Darkfall wasn't displayed at E3 2006 as a demo for potential publishers? Were you there? Or is non-existence of evidence, evidence of non-existence? What sort of faulty logic is this?
2)Again the vaporware rumors. What is Aventurine gaining or expecting to gain by advertising a "fake" game? Pre-sales? Nope. What then?
1) These discussions could be put to rest if the developers simply allowed established gaming magazines and websites the chance to preview and play the game.
Instead they allow someone out of nowhere to play their game and expect his posts to carry any kind of weight? Or is Asp an established reviewer of video games who works for a well-known site or magazine?
2) Investment capital. This can amount to millions and in the past, fake products have been used to steal people blind. Perhaps you heard about the Dot.Com boom?
Now I am NOT saying this is what is happening here, I think Darkfall could very well be a game that is suffering from ridiculous delays and developers who don't know what they're doing as far as marketing. But until they start to produce *tangible* evidence supported by established magazines/website/reviewers they have to expect potshots and rumors to surround their game.
And considering the fisacos we've seen time and time again with MMORPGs, anyone who simply accepts claims by Developers without that tangible evidence is being completely blind to the past of MMORPG development.
1) These discussions could be put to rest if the developers simply allowed established gaming magazines and websites the chance to preview and play the game.
Instead they allow someone out of nowhere to play their game and expect his posts to carry any kind of weight? Or is Asp an established reviewer of video games who works for a well-known site or magazine? 2) Investment capital. This can amount to millions and in the past, fake products have been used to steal people blind. Perhaps you heard about the Dot.Com boom? Now I am NOT saying this is what is happening here, I think Darkfall could very well be a game that is suffering from ridiculous delays and developers who don't know what they're doing as far as marketing. But until they start to produce *tangible* evidence supported by established magazines/website/reviewers they have to expect potshots and rumors to surround their game.
Well, they didn't show it to any reputable reporter. But still that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
And they wont show it to anyone before it is really ready and good to launch; the recent flood of negative comments from beta leaks of AoC is the best example that beta process needs a game as polished as possible, in fact it needs the final product for stress-testing and minor bug fixing.
Where is Darkfall? - Darkfall is indevelopment in Greece. (stupied question gets a stupied answer) This actually isn't a stupid question or stupid answer. We all know Aventurine from the informatin given is based in Greece, but there is still no verifiable proof they are actually working on the game there. If I'm not mistaken Aventurine is the product of a merger with Razor Wax and a company that used to work on software for the Greek military, how do we know that's not what that money was for in those reports? Military software. Why has no one seen or played it? - Because its still in Development and we have seen it, they have videos and screenshots all over the place. Video's and screenshots aren't exactly verifiable proof either. Videos can be prerendered and screenshots made up. Maybe I missed it but for something so close to being a stable beta, wouldn't they atleast have a UI? Why has it not at least been showcased at a gaming convention? It has E3 in 2006. If you can find actual proof they showcased the actual game at that E3 convention this really doesn't hold much water either. I'm sure a big event like E3 would have some type of archived information. Why has NO gaming mag at least had the opportunity to see an alpha build? because they dont want anybody to test the game untill it is 100% ready for beta/release. (been stated so many times by the Developers) If they don't want anyone to test the game, it sounds as if they are going to try and force feed consumers something they may not actually like. Sure some of their features sound great on paper, but there's a reason why some MMO's haven't tried to use that technology yet for example: 100 vs 100 pvp battles utilizing "real-time combat" I know my example isn't an MMO, but why do you think most FPS shooters cap their players usually at 64 total? Latency, regardless of graphics becomes an issue. Go to gamespot.com and you will see "early" alpha impressions of lots of upcoming games. Why not this one? Because gamespot is a shit site with no real reviews just reviews based on the marketing money the site recieved from the game company. Won't argue with this one. So because Darkfall is not following the "normal" MMORPG marketing plan it is a failure? How does that work? They are more than welcome to do whatever they want, however the real issue is communication. I personally am not happy with the amount of communication they have with their possible player base. Most of their interviews seem to only be the same interview rehashed with some different wording here and there. With the amount of developer blogging going on these days, what's preventing them from possibly going the same route. It feels almost that Tasos and 2 others are the only people actually working on DF when I'm sure there's a few more. Because Darkfall has been in development for longer then most other games it is vaporware? why? A couple people already touched on this, any game can be vaporware it's just as far as substance goes, DF is lacking compared to WAR and AoC. Because the Company creating Darkfall is small and does not have a full marketing team its going to fail? No one is saying that, it's more about a lack of communication and almost a lack of interest in even wanting to interact with their possible player base. Do you believe word of mouth is not the best form of marketing? In all honesty I don't. Call me silly or whatever, but I'd have more faith in a company that actually invests money into a grand marketing idea than one that relies solely on "word of mouth". What is it about Darkfall that you hate so much to keep bashing it? Matter of opinion, in my eyes I see the frustration of people that have been waiting for a very long time for a product that has promised so much and still we hardly know anymore than what was originally stated when we first heard about the game. What happens when Darkfall releases? Will you play it? why or why not? Depends if I have the time too. I've been interested in DF for awhile, but if I'm already playing something thats keeping my interest I won't try to play 2 games at once, I don't have the time for that. See I can make up useless questions too.
I hope you don't mind I used your post as reference.
If Darkfall releases with half of the stuff they promise, it will be twice the game AoC is. Why are we even comparing the 2? They are vastly different. Also, Tasos stated that there won't be any pre-ordering. Thats says alot. It means, they don't want your money based on expectations, they want it based on realizations.
If Darkfall releases with half of the stuff they promise, it will be twice the game AoC is. Why are we even comparing the 2? They are vastly different. Also, Tasos stated that there won't be any pre-ordering. Thats says alot. It means, they don't want your money based on expectations, they want it based on realizations.
the naysaysers dont see that so : ) guess they will find out : )
The problem with theses features is they are not achievable by other companies. When you have Blizzard or the age of conan's company with hundreds of devs and coders working 40+ hours a week and tell us they cant, with their technology, gives us half of what Darkfall is promising. You really wonder if Darkfall is fake.
I'm pretty sure neither Blizzard nor Age of Conan even attempted to make this kind of game, much less say its not possible. There's nothing extremely radical about Darkfall, its like Ultima Online in 3d, with Dark Age of Camelotish RvR and boats, mostly things that have been tested in previous MMOs. The only thing that would be difficult in my opinion is the twitch combat, but we'll see how that works out.
Let's see, we have videos and hundreds of screenshots and detailed developer diaries, we have someone who went to Athens and played a build of the game, and we have a developer that USED to work for Aventurine, he's been emailed, and gave information about his time working at Aventurine. We also have records and evidence of the company based in Greece, including their financial records which includes at 23 million dollar loan.
Yup, its all bullshit. When are we going to start calling Age of Conan and Warhammer vaporware? What, they've been delayed like, 3-4 times each now?
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by SignusM
Originally posted by Kairarr
The problem with theses features is they are not achievable by other companies. When you have Blizzard or the age of conan's company with hundreds of devs and coders working 40+ hours a week and tell us they cant, with their technology, gives us half of what Darkfall is promising. You really wonder if Darkfall is fake.
I'm pretty sure neither Blizzard nor Age of Conan even attempted to make this kind of game, much less say its not possible. There's nothing extremely radical about Darkfall, its like Ultima Online in 3d, with Dark Age of Camelotish RvR and boats, mostly things that have been tested in previous MMOs. The only thing that would be difficult in my opinion is the twitch combat, but we'll see how that works out.
Let's see, we have videos and hundreds of screenshots and detailed developer diaries, we have someone who went to Athens and played a build of the game, and we have a developer that USED to work for Aventurine, he's been emailed, and gave information about his time working at Aventurine. We also have records and evidence of the company based in Greece, including their financial records which includes at 23 million dollar loan.
Yup, its all bullshit. When are we going to start calling Age of Conan and Warhammer vaporware? What, they've been delayed like, 3-4 times each now?
All those companies you have named, bar Adventurine have released games before, including mmorpg's.
Adventurine with 26 people on the team or whatever, without much prior experience who say they can do all the things they say and people still wait years on and on, what do you do at that point?
Aventurine has records of producing programs for the military, and other forms of applications before. Its not their first project as a team, but I will still concede that point to you. The developers are long time gamers though, and they truly want to make a game to have fun in, not cater to the lowest common denominator to make money, like WoW and AoC. And if they're vaporware, hey, nothing really lost, except for hope of a quality game coming out any time soon. But what harm is there in hoping? We'll know in a few months...
All those companies you have named, bar Adventurine have released games before, including mmorpg's. Adventurine with 26 people on the team or whatever, without much prior experience who say they can do all the things they say and people still wait years on and on, what do you do at that point?
Game-development is not rocket-science to require vast amounts of resources and facilities; As far as creativity and ideas are concerned, a small team will probably be more effective than a large team, simply due to the fact that communication is more direct between the developers. You can see previous examples of unknown companies that made a name for themselves by publishing very successful games - Piranha Bytes with the Gothic series is a good example.
What a small developing company will suffer from, however, is the required speed to implement their ideas. In implementation phase, which is the transition from the "drawing board" to the coding, large teams are more effective obviously.
In one darkfall Developer Journal Tasos said that there are gaming companies in the market that have Screenshot departments the size of Aventurine. One can clearly see that when it comes to speed of implementation, Aventurine is falling back due to resource constraints.
The delays however don't mean that they are unable to deliver what they claim; they are simply unable to deliver in a timely fashion.
For large companies like Funcom , whatever speed is gained by the large team and availability of resources is partly offset by the delay caused as a result of mis-communication between the developing departments. You can clearly see the results of this in the numerous launch date push-backs AoC has been forced to announce - and WAR probably too...
P.S. At least wait till AOC releases and you get a chance to play it yourself before informing the world that it will fail. Geez.... You haven't even played it nor seen it.
You are AoC supporter, or just yet another of those mmorpg.com carebears who's greatest desire is to let all the PvP mmorpgs unreleased.
And quite many of Darkfall supporters have played AoC beta, that being said, the people included in the beta tester category are under NDA, and thus' they won't be yelling all the faults the game has, they don't need to, but it does have faults, I can guarantee you that. When it gets released you'll have your Fable Online.
Don't go yelling Darkfall will be never released, with 20 million in their pockets, it'll be self-published if nothing else, the true thing to laugh at is; When? We don't know, this year, or 2012 perhaps? They need to hurry before the TES mmorpg comes out.
And people, its Aventurine SA. Not Adventurine, their two completly different companies.
P.S. At least wait till AOC releases and you get a chance to play it yourself before informing the world that it will fail. Geez.... You haven't even played it nor seen it.
You are AoC supporter, or just yet another of those mmorpg.com carebears who's greatest desire is to let all the PvP mmorpgs unreleased.
And quite many of Darkfall supporters have played AoC beta, that being said, the people included in the beta tester category are under NDA, and thus' they won't be yelling all the faults the game has, they don't need to, but it does have faults, I can guarantee you that. When it gets released you'll have your Fable Online.
Don't go yelling Darkfall will be never released, with 20 million in their pockets, it'll be self-published if nothing else, the true thing to laugh at is; When? We don't know, this year, or 2012 perhaps? They need to hurry before the TES mmorpg comes out.
And people, its Aventurine SA. Not Adventurine, their two completly different companies.
The sentence highlighted in red makes like...no sense at all.
And how would you know if "quite many" (how many is that anyway?) DF supporters have played the AoC Beta? As you yourself said, they would be under NDA anyway and couldn't tell you, right?
As for the rest of that paragraph. Well, geee. Another person with ominous warnings, based entirely on speculation and/or rumors. Wow. What else is new. Hello DF fans. Hypocrites much? Saying not to throw wild theories at your game and then turning the ball and throwing wild theories at other games?
This is exactly the type of behavior I've seen so often on these forums. People accuse games of failing without even having any solid facts to base that on. Speculation is one thing, but all these "hahaa, I know your game will fail, trust me, I know, muahahahaha" posts are getting on people's nerves, ya know. Regardless if they are directed at DF or at AoC.
There is an easy way to get the DEVs at Funcom to shut up...make REAL progress.
REAL PROGRESS = A playable version of the game the public can SEE and PLAY in a REAL Beta. Also why not do like most other game companies do....take aREAL playable version to trade shows. Why not showcase the REAL game?
When the game becomes REAL...the critics will shut up. Until then deal with it.....sorry
I think this thread kind of got a bit over the top.
First off IF (note I said IF) the game is vaporware.. who cares. Have you spent money on a pre-order or something?
As to the funcom dev.. they were referring to a common business idea..
It is better to under-promise and over deliver...
I think what the Funcom dev said.. was pretty spot on. If you list all of that and then can't do it.. it will always be seen as a negative (no matter how good your game was/is). If you give people more than they expected.. it is always going to be a positive...
There is an easy way to get the DEVs at Funcom to shut up...make REAL progress. REAL PROGRESS = A playable version of the game the public can SEE and PLAY in a REAL Beta. Also why not do like most other game companies do....take aREAL playable version to trade shows. Why not showcase the REAL game? When the game becomes REAL...the critics will shut up. Until then deal with it.....sorry
the game is already real, just check out the videos, the hundreds of screenshots and dozens of developer journals. why is having a bunch of pimply teenagers playing 20mins of starter quests any better evidence than the stuff that's already out there?
i think perhaps you poorly understand the fact that DF is being developed by a fairly small private company, not a big game publisher. big game publishers throw money at marketing to hype a game to achieve big sales, often at the expense of the quality of the game.
the other big thing is that it's smart not to hype an unfinished game too early; it's better to ramp up the PR campaign as you approach beta, not before. DF was ramping up to beta in 2006, but then decided not to, because as they said, they had the money to do so. they're a small team, of course they are going to take longer to write a game with a lot of new/innovative game mechanics. nothing they have claimed is technically that difficult; it's more the case that contemporary MMOs have just been made deliberately narrow in scope and with tightly controlled consensual PVP.
as a professional software developer myself, i can understand their dilemma, and i think they are doing more or less the right thing. the "critics", as you call them, generally have a pretty poor understanding of the software development process, and don't really have any evidence to back up their claims. the simple facts are that the company is clearly well-funded, and very determined in their focus. they know what kind of game they are trying to make and haven't wavered from that vision.
well-funded + driven == a good environment for developing good software. it's am ambitious project for sure, but not unrealistically ambitious.
Am I the only one to realize, that the posts the OP quoted that have "stirred up the Darkfall" devs, were from OVER A YEAR AGO! Same with the VIDEO that caused all the comments....
Am I the only one to realize, that the posts the OP quoted that have "stirred up the Darkfall" devs, were from OVER A YEAR AGO! Same with the VIDEO that caused all the comments....
Thread over?
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Am I the only one to realize, that the posts the OP quoted that have "stirred up the Darkfall" devs, were from OVER A YEAR AGO! Same with the VIDEO that caused all the comments....
Thread over?
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Mmm... way to show your maturity there Aragon. And even though the comments were made a year ago, they're still no less true today. Big promises, no delivery, same old story...
Am I the only one to realize, that the posts the OP quoted that have "stirred up the Darkfall" devs, were from OVER A YEAR AGO! Same with the VIDEO that caused all the comments....
Thread over?
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Mmm... way to show your maturity there Aragon. And even though the comments were made a year ago, they're still no less true today. Big promises, no delivery, same old story...
That AoC developer were a immature, unproffesional prick a year ago when he made those statements. I bet he was afraid of Darkfall as a competitioner in the MMORPG genre and he made that statement to piss on something he and his developer group couldnt achieve, or didnt have the stamina for. Its like taking yourself and your skills to outer space and a " if we cant do it nobody else can" attitude. Seems Funcom is more into making overhyped trashgames, if youd ask me. Just look at their policy of keeping NDA til game is just about out and people preordering dont know what theyre buying, thats greedy if youd ask me. And its really not a way to convince people your having faith in your own product.
Darkfall on the other hand wont take a cent before you actually tried the game and decided its a game for you. Thats having confidence in your own product.
Am I the only one to realize, that the posts the OP quoted that have "stirred up the Darkfall" devs, were from OVER A YEAR AGO! Same with the VIDEO that caused all the comments....
Thread over?
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Mmm... way to show your maturity there Aragon. And even though the comments were made a year ago, they're still no less true today. Big promises, no delivery, same old story...
That AoC developer were a immature, unproffesional prick a year ago when he made those statements. I bet he was afraid of Darkfall as a competitioner in the MMORPG genre and he made that statement to piss on something he and his developer group couldnt achieve, or didnt have the stamina for. Its like taking yourself and your skills to outer space and a " if we cant do it nobody else can" attitude. Seems Funcom is more into making overhyped trashgames, if youd ask me. Just look at their policy of keeping NDA til game is just about out and people preordering dont know what theyre buying, thats greedy if youd ask me. And its really not a way to convince people your having faith in your own product.
Darkfall on the other hand wont take a cent before you actually tried the game and decided its a game for you. Thats having confidence in your own product.
Arogon mite as well give up you could slap them with all the proof you want and they still say there are lieing lol. its true.
the try before you pay anything shoulda hinted to them TAso isnt so full of him self after all. The thing is I dont see how anyone can have such a negative attitude on We dotn want to show you everything before you play. They dont get it and they never will. They will just have to sit back and see what happens. here in the next few months. I believe there going to be surprised. But i do also fear for them becaus eof the comments they have made because its going to come back and end up bitting them in the behind later
Am I the only one to realize, that the posts the OP quoted that have "stirred up the Darkfall" devs, were from OVER A YEAR AGO! Same with the VIDEO that caused all the comments....
Thread over?
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Mmm... way to show your maturity there Aragon. And even though the comments were made a year ago, they're still no less true today. Big promises, no delivery, same old story...The problem is you dont understand. Dont oyu get the game just wasnt ready at the time If you rush relase the game how the hell would they delivered what they promised?
Am I the only one to realize, that the posts the OP quoted that have "stirred up the Darkfall" devs, were from OVER A YEAR AGO! Same with the VIDEO that caused all the comments....
Thread over?
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Mmm... way to show your maturity there Aragon. And even though the comments were made a year ago, they're still no less true today. Big promises, no delivery, same old story...
That AoC developer were a immature, unproffesional prick a year ago when he made those statements. I bet he was afraid of Darkfall as a competitioner in the MMORPG genre and he made that statement to piss on something he and his developer group couldnt achieve, or didnt have the stamina for. Its like taking yourself and your skills to outer space and a " if we cant do it nobody else can" attitude. Seems Funcom is more into making overhyped trashgames, if youd ask me. Just look at their policy of keeping NDA til game is just about out and people preordering dont know what theyre buying, thats greedy if youd ask me. And its really not a way to convince people your having faith in your own product.
Darkfall on the other hand wont take a cent before you actually tried the game and decided its a game for you. Thats having confidence in your own product.
Take a look at what you're saying Aragon. On the one hand you're attacking Funcom for not disclosing all info about their game (for NDA reasons, which ALL companies keep in place until they enter open Beta), while at the same time you congratulate Aventurine for not bowing to industry pressure and disclosing anything at all about their game to anyone. Maybe if you took a deep breath from your high-pitched torrent of abuse, you'd let some oxygen back into your brain and see your arguments for the hypocrisy they are.
And it's pretty easy to say that Aventurine will give everyone a chance to try their product before they decide to buy it or not... this far out from any sign of release, they could be saying that they'll pay you to play the game and you'd still be swallowing it up along with all the other promises.
Am I the only one to realize, that the posts the OP quoted that have "stirred up the Darkfall" devs, were from OVER A YEAR AGO! Same with the VIDEO that caused all the comments....
Thread over?
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Mmm... way to show your maturity there Aragon. And even though the comments were made a year ago, they're still no less true today. Big promises, no delivery, same old story...
That AoC developer were a immature, unproffesional prick a year ago when he made those statements. I bet he was afraid of Darkfall as a competitioner in the MMORPG genre and he made that statement to piss on something he and his developer group couldnt achieve, or didnt have the stamina for. Its like taking yourself and your skills to outer space and a " if we cant do it nobody else can" attitude. Seems Funcom is more into making overhyped trashgames, if youd ask me. Just look at their policy of keeping NDA til game is just about out and people preordering dont know what theyre buying, thats greedy if youd ask me. And its really not a way to convince people your having faith in your own product.
Darkfall on the other hand wont take a cent before you actually tried the game and decided its a game for you. Thats having confidence in your own product.
Take a look at what you're saying Aragon. On the one hand you're attacking Funcom for not disclosing all info about their game (for NDA reasons, which ALL companies keep in place until they enter open Beta), while at the same time you congratulate Aventurine for not bowing to industry pressure and disclosing anything at all about their game to anyone. Maybe if you took a deep breath from your high-pitched torrent of abuse, you'd let some oxygen back into your brain and see your arguments for the hypocrisy they are.
And it's pretty easy to say that Aventurine will give everyone a chance to try their product before they decide to buy it or not... this far out from any sign of release, they could be saying that they'll pay you to play the game and you'd still be swallowing it up along with all the other promises.
If there will be any open beta! Will have to see about that first dont we.=) And lets say they have a 2 week long open beta, the ones preordering the game wont be helped by that. They bough the game before they actually knew the real product. A greedy system if youd ask me.
And i suggest you try to ventilate some oxygen into your brain first since youre having some severe reading comprehension issues atm. Aventurine will not take a cent from anyone before they actually tried the finished game out for themself. Did you understand that? Good.
If you understood that then explain to me what today knowledge of the game Darkfall mathers to anyone? You will be able to play the full game before buying it. Thats a very honest way to sell games and it also tell us alot about the Developers trust in their product.
Comments
I agree 100% there; any game is a candidate for the vaporware label until it makes it to launch. Even AoC and WAR. With varying possibility ofc...
Oh for sure! Look at some of the more recent games to become Vaporware.1. Gods and Heroes - This game actually hit beta and STILL ended up in the trashcan.
2. Marvel Universe Online- With an IP like that you'd never think it would get cancelled...but it did
3. Star Trek Online - Same as above, though I don't think this one is officially cancelled, but it's definitely headed in that direction.
So yeah, any game can be vaporware. I think it really depends on who is posting. Some people just think cry vaporware because they want DF to fail, some because they really want it to come out and are frustrated it's taking too long, and some (as rare as they are) because it just kinda fits the description right now. I say it's not vaporware until it's completely gone out of production I.E. Gods and Heroes, but thats just my personal definition.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
Tell me
1)How do you know Darkfall wasn't displayed at E3 2006 as a demo for potential publishers? Were you there? Or is non-existence of evidence, evidence of non-existence? What sort of faulty logic is this?
2)Again the vaporware rumors. What is Aventurine gaining or expecting to gain by advertising a "fake" game? Pre-sales? Nope. What then?
1) These discussions could be put to rest if the developers simply allowed established gaming magazines and websites the chance to preview and play the game.
Instead they allow someone out of nowhere to play their game and expect his posts to carry any kind of weight? Or is Asp an established reviewer of video games who works for a well-known site or magazine?
2) Investment capital. This can amount to millions and in the past, fake products have been used to steal people blind. Perhaps you heard about the Dot.Com boom?
Now I am NOT saying this is what is happening here, I think Darkfall could very well be a game that is suffering from ridiculous delays and developers who don't know what they're doing as far as marketing. But until they start to produce *tangible* evidence supported by established magazines/website/reviewers they have to expect potshots and rumors to surround their game.
And considering the fisacos we've seen time and time again with MMORPGs, anyone who simply accepts claims by Developers without that tangible evidence is being completely blind to the past of MMORPG development.
And they wont show it to anyone before it is really ready and good to launch; the recent flood of negative comments from beta leaks of AoC is the best example that beta process needs a game as polished as possible, in fact it needs the final product for stress-testing and minor bug fixing.
If Darkfall releases with half of the stuff they promise, it will be twice the game AoC is. Why are we even comparing the 2? They are vastly different. Also, Tasos stated that there won't be any pre-ordering. Thats says alot. It means, they don't want your money based on expectations, they want it based on realizations.
the naysaysers dont see that so : ) guess they will find out : )
I'm pretty sure neither Blizzard nor Age of Conan even attempted to make this kind of game, much less say its not possible. There's nothing extremely radical about Darkfall, its like Ultima Online in 3d, with Dark Age of Camelotish RvR and boats, mostly things that have been tested in previous MMOs. The only thing that would be difficult in my opinion is the twitch combat, but we'll see how that works out.
Let's see, we have videos and hundreds of screenshots and detailed developer diaries, we have someone who went to Athens and played a build of the game, and we have a developer that USED to work for Aventurine, he's been emailed, and gave information about his time working at Aventurine. We also have records and evidence of the company based in Greece, including their financial records which includes at 23 million dollar loan.
Yup, its all bullshit. When are we going to start calling Age of Conan and Warhammer vaporware? What, they've been delayed like, 3-4 times each now?
Darkfall Travelogues!
I'm pretty sure neither Blizzard nor Age of Conan even attempted to make this kind of game, much less say its not possible. There's nothing extremely radical about Darkfall, its like Ultima Online in 3d, with Dark Age of Camelotish RvR and boats, mostly things that have been tested in previous MMOs. The only thing that would be difficult in my opinion is the twitch combat, but we'll see how that works out.
Let's see, we have videos and hundreds of screenshots and detailed developer diaries, we have someone who went to Athens and played a build of the game, and we have a developer that USED to work for Aventurine, he's been emailed, and gave information about his time working at Aventurine. We also have records and evidence of the company based in Greece, including their financial records which includes at 23 million dollar loan.
Yup, its all bullshit. When are we going to start calling Age of Conan and Warhammer vaporware? What, they've been delayed like, 3-4 times each now?
All those companies you have named, bar Adventurine have released games before, including mmorpg's.
Adventurine with 26 people on the team or whatever, without much prior experience who say they can do all the things they say and people still wait years on and on, what do you do at that point?
Aventurine has records of producing programs for the military, and other forms of applications before. Its not their first project as a team, but I will still concede that point to you. The developers are long time gamers though, and they truly want to make a game to have fun in, not cater to the lowest common denominator to make money, like WoW and AoC. And if they're vaporware, hey, nothing really lost, except for hope of a quality game coming out any time soon. But what harm is there in hoping? We'll know in a few months...
Darkfall Travelogues!
Game-development is not rocket-science to require vast amounts of resources and facilities; As far as creativity and ideas are concerned, a small team will probably be more effective than a large team, simply due to the fact that communication is more direct between the developers. You can see previous examples of unknown companies that made a name for themselves by publishing very successful games - Piranha Bytes with the Gothic series is a good example.
What a small developing company will suffer from, however, is the required speed to implement their ideas. In implementation phase, which is the transition from the "drawing board" to the coding, large teams are more effective obviously.
In one darkfall Developer Journal Tasos said that there are gaming companies in the market that have Screenshot departments the size of Aventurine. One can clearly see that when it comes to speed of implementation, Aventurine is falling back due to resource constraints.
The delays however don't mean that they are unable to deliver what they claim; they are simply unable to deliver in a timely fashion.
For large companies like Funcom , whatever speed is gained by the large team and availability of resources is partly offset by the delay caused as a result of mis-communication between the developing departments. You can clearly see the results of this in the numerous launch date push-backs AoC has been forced to announce - and WAR probably too...
Or when Darkfall promised the beta in 2004...
You are AoC supporter, or just yet another of those mmorpg.com carebears who's greatest desire is to let all the PvP mmorpgs unreleased.
And quite many of Darkfall supporters have played AoC beta, that being said, the people included in the beta tester category are under NDA, and thus' they won't be yelling all the faults the game has, they don't need to, but it does have faults, I can guarantee you that. When it gets released you'll have your Fable Online.
Don't go yelling Darkfall will be never released, with 20 million in their pockets, it'll be self-published if nothing else, the true thing to laugh at is; When? We don't know, this year, or 2012 perhaps? They need to hurry before the TES mmorpg comes out.
And people, its Aventurine SA. Not Adventurine, their two completly different companies.
You are AoC supporter, or just yet another of those mmorpg.com carebears who's greatest desire is to let all the PvP mmorpgs unreleased.
And quite many of Darkfall supporters have played AoC beta, that being said, the people included in the beta tester category are under NDA, and thus' they won't be yelling all the faults the game has, they don't need to, but it does have faults, I can guarantee you that. When it gets released you'll have your Fable Online.
Don't go yelling Darkfall will be never released, with 20 million in their pockets, it'll be self-published if nothing else, the true thing to laugh at is; When? We don't know, this year, or 2012 perhaps? They need to hurry before the TES mmorpg comes out.
And people, its Aventurine SA. Not Adventurine, their two completly different companies.
The sentence highlighted in red makes like...no sense at all.And how would you know if "quite many" (how many is that anyway?) DF supporters have played the AoC Beta? As you yourself said, they would be under NDA anyway and couldn't tell you, right?
As for the rest of that paragraph. Well, geee. Another person with ominous warnings, based entirely on speculation and/or rumors. Wow. What else is new. Hello DF fans. Hypocrites much? Saying not to throw wild theories at your game and then turning the ball and throwing wild theories at other games?
This is exactly the type of behavior I've seen so often on these forums. People accuse games of failing without even having any solid facts to base that on. Speculation is one thing, but all these "hahaa, I know your game will fail, trust me, I know, muahahahaha" posts are getting on people's nerves, ya know. Regardless if they are directed at DF or at AoC.
But eh...I'm talking to a wall, ain't I?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
REAL PROGRESS = A playable version of the game the public can SEE and PLAY in a REAL Beta. Also why not do like most other game companies do....take a REAL playable version to trade shows. Why not showcase the REAL game?
When the game becomes REAL...the critics will shut up. Until then deal with it.....sorry
why cant they deal with them not showing them and just trust them?
I think this thread kind of got a bit over the top.
First off IF (note I said IF) the game is vaporware.. who cares. Have you spent money on a pre-order or something?
As to the funcom dev.. they were referring to a common business idea..
It is better to under-promise and over deliver...
I think what the Funcom dev said.. was pretty spot on. If you list all of that and then can't do it.. it will always be seen as a negative (no matter how good your game was/is). If you give people more than they expected.. it is always going to be a positive...
people just like drama.. I guess.
the game is already real, just check out the videos, the hundreds of screenshots and dozens of developer journals. why is having a bunch of pimply teenagers playing 20mins of starter quests any better evidence than the stuff that's already out there?
i think perhaps you poorly understand the fact that DF is being developed by a fairly small private company, not a big game publisher. big game publishers throw money at marketing to hype a game to achieve big sales, often at the expense of the quality of the game.
the other big thing is that it's smart not to hype an unfinished game too early; it's better to ramp up the PR campaign as you approach beta, not before. DF was ramping up to beta in 2006, but then decided not to, because as they said, they had the money to do so. they're a small team, of course they are going to take longer to write a game with a lot of new/innovative game mechanics. nothing they have claimed is technically that difficult; it's more the case that contemporary MMOs have just been made deliberately narrow in scope and with tightly controlled consensual PVP.
as a professional software developer myself, i can understand their dilemma, and i think they are doing more or less the right thing. the "critics", as you call them, generally have a pretty poor understanding of the software development process, and don't really have any evidence to back up their claims. the simple facts are that the company is clearly well-funded, and very determined in their focus. they know what kind of game they are trying to make and haven't wavered from that vision.
well-funded + driven == a good environment for developing good software. it's am ambitious project for sure, but not unrealistically ambitious.
hope that clears some things up a little.
Am I the only one to realize, that the posts the OP quoted that have "stirred up the Darkfall" devs, were from OVER A YEAR AGO! Same with the VIDEO that caused all the comments....
Thread over?
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Mmm... way to show your maturity there Aragon. And even though the comments were made a year ago, they're still no less true today. Big promises, no delivery, same old story...
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Mmm... way to show your maturity there Aragon. And even though the comments were made a year ago, they're still no less true today. Big promises, no delivery, same old story...
That AoC developer were a immature, unproffesional prick a year ago when he made those statements. I bet he was afraid of Darkfall as a competitioner in the MMORPG genre and he made that statement to piss on something he and his developer group couldnt achieve, or didnt have the stamina for. Its like taking yourself and your skills to outer space and a " if we cant do it nobody else can" attitude. Seems Funcom is more into making overhyped trashgames, if youd ask me. Just look at their policy of keeping NDA til game is just about out and people preordering dont know what theyre buying, thats greedy if youd ask me. And its really not a way to convince people your having faith in your own product.
Darkfall on the other hand wont take a cent before you actually tried the game and decided its a game for you. Thats having confidence in your own product.
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Mmm... way to show your maturity there Aragon. And even though the comments were made a year ago, they're still no less true today. Big promises, no delivery, same old story...
That AoC developer were a immature, unproffesional prick a year ago when he made those statements. I bet he was afraid of Darkfall as a competitioner in the MMORPG genre and he made that statement to piss on something he and his developer group couldnt achieve, or didnt have the stamina for. Its like taking yourself and your skills to outer space and a " if we cant do it nobody else can" attitude. Seems Funcom is more into making overhyped trashgames, if youd ask me. Just look at their policy of keeping NDA til game is just about out and people preordering dont know what theyre buying, thats greedy if youd ask me. And its really not a way to convince people your having faith in your own product.
Darkfall on the other hand wont take a cent before you actually tried the game and decided its a game for you. Thats having confidence in your own product.
Arogon mite as well give up you could slap them with all the proof you want and they still say there are lieing lol. its true.the try before you pay anything shoulda hinted to them TAso isnt so full of him self after all. The thing is I dont see how anyone can have such a negative attitude on We dotn want to show you everything before you play. They dont get it and they never will. They will just have to sit back and see what happens. here in the next few months. I believe there going to be surprised. But i do also fear for them becaus eof the comments they have made because its going to come back and end up bitting them in the behind later
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Mmm... way to show your maturity there Aragon. And even though the comments were made a year ago, they're still no less true today. Big promises, no delivery, same old story...The problem is you dont understand. Dont oyu get the game just wasnt ready at the time If you rush relase the game how the hell would they delivered what they promised?
GEt it throw your thick heads please
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Mmm... way to show your maturity there Aragon. And even though the comments were made a year ago, they're still no less true today. Big promises, no delivery, same old story...
That AoC developer were a immature, unproffesional prick a year ago when he made those statements. I bet he was afraid of Darkfall as a competitioner in the MMORPG genre and he made that statement to piss on something he and his developer group couldnt achieve, or didnt have the stamina for. Its like taking yourself and your skills to outer space and a " if we cant do it nobody else can" attitude. Seems Funcom is more into making overhyped trashgames, if youd ask me. Just look at their policy of keeping NDA til game is just about out and people preordering dont know what theyre buying, thats greedy if youd ask me. And its really not a way to convince people your having faith in your own product.
Darkfall on the other hand wont take a cent before you actually tried the game and decided its a game for you. Thats having confidence in your own product.
Take a look at what you're saying Aragon. On the one hand you're attacking Funcom for not disclosing all info about their game (for NDA reasons, which ALL companies keep in place until they enter open Beta), while at the same time you congratulate Aventurine for not bowing to industry pressure and disclosing anything at all about their game to anyone. Maybe if you took a deep breath from your high-pitched torrent of abuse, you'd let some oxygen back into your brain and see your arguments for the hypocrisy they are.
And it's pretty easy to say that Aventurine will give everyone a chance to try their product before they decide to buy it or not... this far out from any sign of release, they could be saying that they'll pay you to play the game and you'd still be swallowing it up along with all the other promises.
Yeah a year make all the difference!! That AoC developer would NEVER make such a statement this year, lmao. He was acting like a little girl and i sincerly doubt he will ever loose his attitude problem and unproffesionalism. He was a immature prick a year ago and most likely he is one today.
Mmm... way to show your maturity there Aragon. And even though the comments were made a year ago, they're still no less true today. Big promises, no delivery, same old story...
That AoC developer were a immature, unproffesional prick a year ago when he made those statements. I bet he was afraid of Darkfall as a competitioner in the MMORPG genre and he made that statement to piss on something he and his developer group couldnt achieve, or didnt have the stamina for. Its like taking yourself and your skills to outer space and a " if we cant do it nobody else can" attitude. Seems Funcom is more into making overhyped trashgames, if youd ask me. Just look at their policy of keeping NDA til game is just about out and people preordering dont know what theyre buying, thats greedy if youd ask me. And its really not a way to convince people your having faith in your own product.
Darkfall on the other hand wont take a cent before you actually tried the game and decided its a game for you. Thats having confidence in your own product.
Take a look at what you're saying Aragon. On the one hand you're attacking Funcom for not disclosing all info about their game (for NDA reasons, which ALL companies keep in place until they enter open Beta), while at the same time you congratulate Aventurine for not bowing to industry pressure and disclosing anything at all about their game to anyone. Maybe if you took a deep breath from your high-pitched torrent of abuse, you'd let some oxygen back into your brain and see your arguments for the hypocrisy they are.
And it's pretty easy to say that Aventurine will give everyone a chance to try their product before they decide to buy it or not... this far out from any sign of release, they could be saying that they'll pay you to play the game and you'd still be swallowing it up along with all the other promises.
If there will be any open beta! Will have to see about that first dont we.=) And lets say they have a 2 week long open beta, the ones preordering the game wont be helped by that. They bough the game before they actually knew the real product. A greedy system if youd ask me.
And i suggest you try to ventilate some oxygen into your brain first since youre having some severe reading comprehension issues atm. Aventurine will not take a cent from anyone before they actually tried the finished game out for themself. Did you understand that? Good.
If you understood that then explain to me what today knowledge of the game Darkfall mathers to anyone? You will be able to play the full game before buying it. Thats a very honest way to sell games and it also tell us alot about the Developers trust in their product.