I guarantee you this though when Darkfall gets released you will not give up the cursade, you will just change your complaint to something else like graphics or the Full PvP loot or something.
But of course, no game gets released perfect, and no game design can every satisfy every player. My response would be, who cares? As long as enough people sub to keep the game going, its all good.
Your cursade is just as pointless as our is in all honest. We can argue till the end of the world (12-12-2012) and still not know oneway or the other. The only way this ends is when Darkfall is either released or cancelled.
Absolutely agree (except end of world will be in 2029 or so when asteroid wacks us). So until DF releases or is cancelled, we can have fun (and it is fun) thrashing each other on the forums here.
I can agree that time is on yourside and I can understand to a point why people are calling it Vaporware but what I cant understand is why your side of the field has to constantly bash a game that you have either no intrested in or dont want to follow anymore. Your side of the feel seems to love attacking a game that does not effect you at all.
Who says we aren't interested? That's a common misconception, that we aren't still following the game. We bash because we care.
Its like me attacking and bashing the goverment of Japen because they lied to their people, what the fuck do I care, I live in the USA.
But on the converse side, it would make no more sense for you to post endlessly in forums supporting the government of Japan, because like you said, you live in the USA. It really doesn't need a reason, each side does so because they enjoy the argument, even if it is un-winnable.
Darkfall is our last hope at destorying what WoW created and that is EASY MODE MMORPGs.
Actually, not true. EVE is considered to be quite possibly the toughest [edit] most complicated (no game is really tough) of MMO's out there, and we have access to it today. I think Earthrise also has a chance to provide a sand-box type, class based environment. No reason to keep bashing WOW as easy mode, considering most folks who do have never mastered it completely. (Post me your screenshots of your NAX kills in your reply please)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Actually you didn't read anything I said because if you HAD you'd know that I didn't say YOU said that. What I said, since your reading comprehension is obviously not what it needs to be, is that you guys are crusading against (which means arguing against in this case) any statements that are NOT "DARKFALL IS TEH BEZT!!! BETA THIS YEAR!". Where in that you got that I said YOU personally said that is beyond me. Try actually reading people's words before labeling them a troll. In fact, maybe take some time to read your own posts, and you might find that you yourself are trolling against the very people you are mis labeling.
Aye I missed "anything that isn't" part. And I didn't say that you or Shannia is a troll. But if you read Shannias post in here you find nothing accept negative comments. He has said that he wants a game like darkfall by a real developing company instead of the Hoax we have now. And if we draw a conclusion from every other post hes intention in here will never be positive. I can be wrong tho.
but you say we're only listnen to people saying "DARKFALL IS TEH BEZT!!! BETA THIS YEAR!" and thats not true, But I don't see anyone accept us who say something about the troll attempts. Isn't that equal?
Fair enough. I don't go through many people's posting history so I couldn't tell you about Shannia. I just read the post that was quoted, and didn't see it as a troll. I understand the frustration that those types of posters can bring, and I do not agree with their methods of getting their point across.
I've said many times that Darkfall could go either way right now, and I truly believe that. It's just easier right now to label it as vaporware because it's not really going anywhere. It's been in development for like 7+ years and it's just kind stagnant right now. I respect your opinions on the matter though.
Oh but it does. It might not go in Blizzard speed but did you really expect that?=)
Graphics have picked up amazingly last year. New video about Cities&Locations which is a really good one that many of the vapor trolls chosed to comment like this "where is the NPC:s and where is the monsters and dungeons". They choosed to criticise what they didnt see instead of commenting what they were shawn. A typical reaction from Darkfall haters. And you come here trying to convince me and others that follow the game very, very closely that it isnt going anywhere?=) Well you fail badly.Information from developers have never been as hi as its been lately. What we can see in the 57 new screenshots we got so far 2008 is that the game looks very polished. And Tasos told us that were about to expect a video about Conquest in latest developer journal. Gameplay!!!, and who knows, we might see some NPC:s in it.=) They updated the Darkfall website and for a small team theyre doing just fine. Latest Dev Journal is the best so far, just pure quality. And im so glad they put all their workload on doing the game as good as they possibly can. Thats were they should put their workload, not running to the press every other day showing off this and that. Let the game speak for itself when its ready, and taking their sweet time finishing it make me believe even more. Seems Darkfall Team dont have financiers breathing down their necks.=)
Try to remember- most developer companies dont show off all details in their game before beta and release. Its good to have some parts to discover yourself, dont you agree?
And you know what, i believe in Darkfall Developers and think they is very truthful in their relation to the fans. They have to 99% stuck to their original idea. They inform the fans as good as they can and the Darkfall fans on Darkfall board is mostly very pleased with all updates. Some want more but thats nothing strange. They havent put out dates for beta and release cause they dont wanna make any more mistakes on that area. And they decided to let Aventurine SA publish in one region, which isnt anywhere close to what you try to imply- " game isnt going anywhere". Thats just false and what your intentions with your babbling is, is beyond me.
Can you please explain to me what you ment with the statement " Darkfall aint going anywhere?"=)
Why does it have to be babbling? I can't have an opinion?
What I meant by that statement is that it's been in development for a long long long time even by MMO standards, and it hasn't even hit CB yet. I didn't say it's not releasing, I didn't say you guys were wrong to have faith in the game. I didn't say any of the stuff that you decided I said. What I said was that it's been in development for a long time, and it's not moving ahead it seems. I do agree that the graphics have gotten better, and I do agree that the ideas behind the game are amazing. What I was saying was that from my perspective, and from the perspective of a lot of potential players is that it just doesn't seem to be moving towards release.
Give us the vids of gameplay, and some screens of the new UI and I will happily ammend my statement.
The timeframe Darkfall been under development can be discussed. Some say 7 years, some 5 year. I think 5 year is the most suitable time Darkfall been under development. This isnt a long time for a game of Darkfall caliber. And the mission theyre on is a huge one. Just look at all features implemented, the enourmous game world. And add a small development team to those variables and you will get a long development time. Nothing strange with that if youd ask me.=)
And it does move in the right direction, not in Blizzard speed but good enough.
How many alpha-reviews of mmorpg game have you read from a professional gamingsite/magazine? Someone? Please?
______________________________ The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess. And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic' and send them to the Special Olympus.
Your correct EVE is out and it is not on easy mode but it is not my type of game. I am not a Sci fi guy at all. So same goes for Earthrise but I will be looking at earthrise because of the sand box feature.
I also agree the reason we argue both sides is because its fun. I dont agree with your view of WoW. WoW is on EASY MODE because it has no risks, if you die so what. Each quest is writen in a way that does not allow you to mess it up which is another EASY MODE feature.
Oh god, after reading little over five pages I just had to reply.
Sure, AoC is closer to coming into the market, but who are they to speak of "not covering all features promised." Their game, lacks almost half of the stuff promised, the excuse they made was "Well add them later." The invisible walls certainly aren't bugs, they are there to prevent you from skipping zones. To remind you, I am completly neutral to the argument, but I feel like enlightening you blind followers of a game that holds no true promises. They might have Age of Conan fixed in year or two, but before that, use a long stick before touching it. If you have not tested Age of Conan, please, don't contribute anything to this thread, you'll just make a fool of yourself. Its like setting sides with argument that you have no idea about, which in this case holds true. The best thing was; Even slightest critique I made about AoC got me banned from their forums, and the post deleted, and I made that critique similiar to this post, nothing offensive, no inmature flaming, just plain mature critique.
To those who argue about the lack of loading times and say there is no technology to cover that promise. You are wrong, you are very wrong. Even in the 95-99' I don't remember the release date, popped a game with seamless world and no real loading screens, expect the start screen loading. That game was on Playstation 1, a console without real power to support anything considered as "Powerful engine..The name was Legacy of Kain: Soulreaver. I bet some of the older folk here do remember the game and the less than 1 second spike, that without following intensely you didin't even notice the "load", also they used the clever way of putting videos in the game, loading stuff meanwhile.
Tasos did very professionally not making inmature reply, instead he just told us to ignore the whole thing, forget it and let it be. Darkfall indeed has been in development for long time, but now that we've seen yet another graphical improvement, I think they consider the graphical side of the game ready, now that they are actually handcrafting the world unlike most of the other mmorpgs, it takes time, as if it truly is 8 hours trip from south coast to the northern end of the mainland, theres a lot to do. Also, we have already seen Aventurine cut off some of the features they promised, so its really no use to say DF will have everything promised, at least they admitted it. Now to those who say Darkfall never releases anything, look at this years updates, the lore stuff, new screenshots of characters, the new video to show us around, details about cities and their amounts. Yet, in all the hope, there lies a seed of doubt, even in the hearts of Aventurine developers themselves.
Just to notify, you people are comparing mainstream mmorpg to a mmorpg that'll have niche market because of its cruel world. So why to compare? Level/gear based, game with instances versus attempt to create a skill based, non gear depending game with "no real use of levels without being able to use the character properly." We don't know Darkfall's true nature yet, but so far, these games won't be fighting for their sub bases.
I have a right to belive Darkfall will be released, but in which form, that I don't know, but I'm hoping to see new blossom of a real PvP mmorpg. I actually waited for AoC once, but after the changes that have occured, I'm leaving that game alone-
Aye, he has a point. But not to forget; It's a very very small % from AoCs fan here. But they sure makes the others look bad. And why are a vast majority of trolls/flamers from AoC? Not just in this thread but the others.
______________________________ The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess. And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic' and send them to the Special Olympus.
Aye, he has a point. But not to forget; It's a very very small % from AoCs fan here. But they sure makes the others look bad. And why are a vast majority of trolls/flamers from AoC? Not just in this thread but the others.
Aye it sure is kinda odd? Might it be they is unsecure of their own game? But if so bashing others wont make their game any better. Its really peculiar if youd ask me.
I think the biggest 'mistake' the the Darkfall dev team made was announcing that the game was coming as early on as they did. Whether or not the game was in production in 2001 isn't the issue. The issue is that we've known the game was coming since 2001. That's a long time to wait, no matter how/when/where the game started development.
The reason the dev's made their announcement might have been to get audience/potential-customer input/feedback, and I think that's great. But the overall penalty is, the game has been 'visible' to the public for a very long time and no product has been delivered.
A lot of other games were announced after 2001 and have already launched and/or have already been out for some time now.
The longer that Darkfall goes without a launch date announcement (alpha/beta/live), the more criticism the game will draw.
I think the biggest 'mistake' the the Darkfall dev team made was announcing that the game was coming as early on as they did. Whether or not the game was in production in 2001 isn't the issue. The issue is that we've known the game was coming since 2001. That's a long time to wait, no matter how/when/where the game started development. The reason the dev's made their announcement might have been to get audience/potential-customer input/feedback, and I think that's great. But the overall penalty is, the game has been 'visible' to the public for a very long time and no product has been delivered. A lot of other games were announced after 2001 and have already launched and/or have already been out for some time now. The longer that Darkfall goes without a launch date announcement (alpha/beta/live), the more criticism the game will draw.
This is exactly my point.
To Aragon100 there is absolutely nothing wrong with them taking their time to develop their game. In fact, I applaud them for wanting to make sure their game is the best it can be regardless of how long it takes. I was seriously not bashing the game. My only intention was to give light to why some people have such a pessimistic view of the game. I've been saying all along that I think DF has just as good a chance as any of these other mainstream games of being great, and I believe that.
What I think would work to Adventurine's advantage would be to let a few journalists test the alpha build (of course making sure they always remember it's alpha), and do a little write up on their website or magazine. Also, it'd be a good thing for them to show some aplha vids of combat, and the ui and stuff (I've seen the older combat vids and stuff, but maybe some with the updated graphics.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
All the opponents of Darkfall please answer me this one question:
Since Aventurine is not taking any pre-orders (to justify a large-scale scam on their part by promising an undeliverable product, cashing in on hype and then vanishing), WHAT REASON do they have to claim they are developing a game if they are not?
We know for sure that Aventurine and Darkfall is being partly funded by the EU (software development is subsidized in Greece - check http://www.ypan.gr/c_announce/45_1843_cms.htm and click to open the Word file. It is in Greek, but if you scroll down at #10 you'll see Aventurine got 265.236 Euro for development) and they need to deliver. There is no possibility on earth DF is a scam and not coming out...
in terms of paid man-hours seems like AoC and DF have had very similar amount of development. DF team is small, of course it's going to take a long time so arguments about length of development time are kinda stupid.
personally, i just want a great PVP-oriented MMO to play, because everything that's currently available is sh1t. DF is the closest thing to my ideal MMO so of course i want to see it released, and as a professional prgrammer of 10+ years experience i don't see any technical reason why they should be able to deliver a great PVP sandbox game. AoC i thought might be a contender, but given all the bad writeups on betaleaks.com as well as personal comms with a friend who is in the beta makes me think otherwise.
you guys need to realise that the WOW-style of game probably requires a lot more resources than a DF-style (sandbox) game, for the simple fact that WOW has so much scripted PVE content. in a PVP sandbox game, you're more providing the world and the game mechanics, the players are providing most of the content.
So...let me get this straight. It's OK for people to talk crap about AoC, to bash it, to call it a crappy product based on unconfirmed information and second-hand opinions at best....but it is -NOT- OK for people to voice their opinion that DF won't be published because we haven't seen much beyond a few screenshots and short vids of the game......?
Seriously. Think before you post people. The DF crowd is no better (or worse) than any other fanbase of any other game. They, like the others, have idiots among them who just attack without any basis of information. Don#t talk high and mighty. Your game's fanbase is no different from any others.
So...let me get this straight. It's OK for people to talk crap about AoC, to bash it, to call it a crappy product based on unconfirmed information and second-hand opinions at best....but it is -NOT- OK for people to voice their opinion that DF won't be published because we haven't seen much beyond a few screenshots and short vids of the game......?
Seriously. Think before you post people. The DF crowd is no better (or worse) than any other fanbase of any other game. They, like the others, have idiots among them who just attack without any basis of information. Don#t talk high and mighty. Your game's fanbase is no different from any others.
only difference being, DF fans trash-talk AoC within their own forums...AoC fans seem to want to aggressively display their hatred for DF by storming others' forums...
Btw, has anyone from the DAoC team asked for their combat system back?
Aside from being in the Conan universe, AoC has nothing going for it. Vanguard already proved that graphics are nothing, so what exactly are we looking at? You still have levels, PvP is still restricted, instances, classes...
Jeez, sounds a lot like WoW with blood and boobs to me.
So...let me get this straight. It's OK for people to talk crap about AoC, to bash it, to call it a crappy product based on unconfirmed information and second-hand opinions at best....but it is -NOT- OK for people to voice their opinion that DF won't be published because we haven't seen much beyond a few screenshots and short vids of the game......?
Seriously. Think before you post people. The DF crowd is no better (or worse) than any other fanbase of any other game. They, like the others, have idiots among them who just attack without any basis of information. Don#t talk high and mighty. Your game's fanbase is no different from any others.
only difference being, DF fans trash-talk AoC within their own forums...AoC fans seem to want to aggressively display their hatred for DF by storming others' forums...
Come on...that is a very naive sentiment. We all know that threads recently posted in are displayed on the main site. I personally only look there to see what's going on and if a topic catches my interest I read it. It's not like the DF people stay on their own Fan-Pages.
Face it, this is a site for -all- MMO's. You can't expect people not to read what you post here...and expect them not to get angry...like you do...when you trash talk their game.
I personally don't like all the trash-talking. I try to stay civilized and I try to keep an open mind (even though I -AM- going to play AoC), but that doesn't mean I don't see all the back and forth in bashings that's going on here.
Come on...that is a very naive sentiment. We all know that threads recently posted in are displayed on the main site. I personally only look there to see what's going on and if a topic catches my interest I read it. It's not like the DF people stay on their own Fan-Pages.
Face it, this is a site for -all- MMO's. You can't expect people not to read what you post here...and expect them not to get angry...like you do...when you trash talk their game.
I personally don't like all the trash-talking. I try to stay civilized and I try to keep an open mind (even though I -AM- going to play AoC), but that doesn't mean I don't see all the back and forth in bashings that's going on here.
Well, DF main criticism on AoC is that it is pathed, not-really-PvP, etc....the same things that AoC beta-testers are whining about really.
AoC criticism on DF is that every single bit of information displayed thus far has been faked. Which doesn't make sense .
Eve Online took a bunch of no names 6 years to develop, had an absolutely horrible alpha and early beta testing phases, and yet it still turned out to be one of the best mmos ever. Go figure.
Well, DF main criticism on AoC is that it is pathed, not-really-PvP, etc....the same things that AoC beta-testers are whining about really.
AoC criticism on DF is that every single bit of information displayed thus far has been faked. Which doesn't make sense .
I am not talking about criticism. I am talking about bashing. And even the criticism is still based on rumors (yes, rumors, because all people have to go on, are unconfirmed reports of contract-breakers. Believe them, or believe the Developers...that is your choice, but it doesn't make the statement less true).
I am talking about certain people (I won't say names but you can find them easily), calling the game craptastic. Calling it bullsh*t, calling it any kinds of names. That is not criticism, that is outright hatred and attacks on the game without further comments or anything. And this goes from DF to AoC, from AoC to WAR, from WAR to AoC and so on and so forth.
That's what amuses me most. Because, as i stated in my first post, no community of any game is immune to people in their ranks who give the community a bad name. Not DF, not WAR and not AoC. Don't act as though the DF community is a sainthood...because it is not.
The AoC DFO debate is like one person (DFO) making an argument based on the philosophies and mechanics of the game, while the other (AoC) just say s, "Na na ur a doodoohead and r liar!"
All I need to say is look at the leaked AoC PvP videos. They look horrible. It is aparent that player "aiming" is no more important than your positioning in WoW.
I am not talking about criticism. I am talking about bashing. And even the criticism is still based on rumors (yes, rumors, because all people have to go on, are unconfirmed reports of contract-breakers. Believe them, or believe the Developers...that is your choice, but it doesn't make the statement less true).
I am talking about certain people (I won't say names but you can find them easily), calling the game craptastic. Calling it bullsh*t, calling it any kinds of names. That is not criticism, that is outright hatred and attacks on the game without further comments or anything. And this goes from DF to AoC, from AoC to WAR, from WAR to AoC and so on and so forth.
That's what amuses me most. Because, as i stated in my first post, no community of any game is immune to people in their ranks who give the community a bad name. Not DF, not WAR and not AoC. Don't act as though the DF community is a sainthood...because it is not.
Well, unfounded judgment ,comments and bashing on a game, wherever they may be coming from, are not to be taken seriously. It is emotion speaking rather than reason and I'll agree with you that it is amusing.
I was referring to posts from the so-called "vaporware trolls" that try to prove all DF info we have gotten does not exist and has been faked. That , too, is amusing.
Well, unfounded judgment ,comments and bashing on a game, wherever they may be coming from, are not to be taken seriously. It is emotion speaking rather than reason and I'll agree with you that it is amusing.
I was referring to posts from the so-called "vaporware trolls" that try to prove all DF info we have gotten does not exist and has been faked. That is, too, amusing.
And I am just saying that some people point out the obvious "strange" parts of DF. The DF community counters with saying that it's to be expected.
Both are right. And sometimes (not very often sadly) both sides agree actually and just let each other hope for the best for their games.
Most of the time though, one or the other side starts to hit on the other game in one way or another. Calling DF vaporware, attacking the lack of information on one side and leaked Beta-Videos and the age-old "Boobs-and-Blood" crap on the other side and of course the famous "WoW-Clone" on still another side. And all I was saying in my post, was that this kind of sentiment comes from all sides, because someone in this thread postulated that AoC fans are the ones responsible for that, which is, as such, not a true statement.
And that person continuing to post leaked old Beta-Video's, this discussion isn't about this. So quit it already (and yes, a video from 2007 is, in game-developer terms, old).
And I am just saying that some people point out the obvious "strange" parts of DF. The DF community counters with saying that it's to be expected.
Both are right. And sometimes (not very often sadly) both sides agree actually and just let each other hope for the best for their games.
Well, both are not right. The vaporware claims have long been refuted, although most opponents of DF selectively choose to forget all the evidence produced to support the opposite.
i.e. this link http://www.ypan.gr/c_announce/45_1843_cms.htm has existed for some time, proving that Aventurine is a solid company working under EU subsidization by the Greek Ministry of Development. Yet not even this can convince them that Aventurine exists and is getting money to make Darkfall...
Wow, I never realized just how sensitive DF fans were until this post. I'm not so sure that open world PvP and KOS is a good idea for this game. If they can't take a few paragraphs that poke fun at or criticize the game, how are they going to take being ganked??
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"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Aye I missed "anything that isn't" part. And I didn't say that you or Shannia is a troll. But if you read Shannias post in here you find nothing accept negative comments. He has said that he wants a game like darkfall by a real developing company instead of the Hoax we have now. And if we draw a conclusion from every other post hes intention in here will never be positive. I can be wrong tho.
but you say we're only listnen to people saying "DARKFALL IS TEH BEZT!!! BETA THIS YEAR!" and thats not true, But I don't see anyone accept us who say something about the troll attempts. Isn't that equal?
Fair enough. I don't go through many people's posting history so I couldn't tell you about Shannia. I just read the post that was quoted, and didn't see it as a troll. I understand the frustration that those types of posters can bring, and I do not agree with their methods of getting their point across.
I've said many times that Darkfall could go either way right now, and I truly believe that. It's just easier right now to label it as vaporware because it's not really going anywhere. It's been in development for like 7+ years and it's just kind stagnant right now. I respect your opinions on the matter though.
Oh but it does. It might not go in Blizzard speed but did you really expect that?=)
Graphics have picked up amazingly last year. New video about Cities&Locations which is a really good one that many of the vapor trolls chosed to comment like this "where is the NPC:s and where is the monsters and dungeons". They choosed to criticise what they didnt see instead of commenting what they were shawn. A typical reaction from Darkfall haters. And you come here trying to convince me and others that follow the game very, very closely that it isnt going anywhere?=) Well you fail badly. Information from developers have never been as hi as its been lately. What we can see in the 57 new screenshots we got so far 2008 is that the game looks very polished. And Tasos told us that were about to expect a video about Conquest in latest developer journal. Gameplay!!!, and who knows, we might see some NPC:s in it.=) They updated the Darkfall website and for a small team theyre doing just fine. Latest Dev Journal is the best so far, just pure quality. And im so glad they put all their workload on doing the game as good as they possibly can. Thats were they should put their workload, not running to the press every other day showing off this and that. Let the game speak for itself when its ready, and taking their sweet time finishing it make me believe even more. Seems Darkfall Team dont have financiers breathing down their necks.=)
Try to remember- most developer companies dont show off all details in their game before beta and release. Its good to have some parts to discover yourself, dont you agree?
And you know what, i believe in Darkfall Developers and think they is very truthful in their relation to the fans. They have to 99% stuck to their original idea. They inform the fans as good as they can and the Darkfall fans on Darkfall board is mostly very pleased with all updates. Some want more but thats nothing strange. They havent put out dates for beta and release cause they dont wanna make any more mistakes on that area. And they decided to let Aventurine SA publish in one region, which isnt anywhere close to what you try to imply- " game isnt going anywhere". Thats just false and what your intentions with your babbling is, is beyond me.
Can you please explain to me what you ment with the statement " Darkfall aint going anywhere?"=)
Why does it have to be babbling? I can't have an opinion?
What I meant by that statement is that it's been in development for a long long long time even by MMO standards, and it hasn't even hit CB yet. I didn't say it's not releasing, I didn't say you guys were wrong to have faith in the game. I didn't say any of the stuff that you decided I said. What I said was that it's been in development for a long time, and it's not moving ahead it seems. I do agree that the graphics have gotten better, and I do agree that the ideas behind the game are amazing. What I was saying was that from my perspective, and from the perspective of a lot of potential players is that it just doesn't seem to be moving towards release.
Give us the vids of gameplay, and some screens of the new UI and I will happily ammend my statement.
The timeframe Darkfall been under development can be discussed. Some say 7 years, some 5 year. I think 5 year is the most suitable time Darkfall been under development. This isnt a long time for a game of Darkfall caliber. And the mission theyre on is a huge one. Just look at all features implemented, the enourmous game world. And add a small development team to those variables and you will get a long development time. Nothing strange with that if youd ask me.=)
And it does move in the right direction, not in Blizzard speed but good enough.
How many alpha-reviews of mmorpg game have you read from a professional gamingsite/magazine? Someone? Please?
______________________________
The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
What you like the summarisation muffins made Seggallion?
http://themuffinarium.blogspot.com/
I think its pretty spot on.=)
Your correct EVE is out and it is not on easy mode but it is not my type of game. I am not a Sci fi guy at all. So same goes for Earthrise but I will be looking at earthrise because of the sand box feature.
I also agree the reason we argue both sides is because its fun. I dont agree with your view of WoW. WoW is on EASY MODE because it has no risks, if you die so what. Each quest is writen in a way that does not allow you to mess it up which is another EASY MODE feature.
Sooner or Later
Oh god, after reading little over five pages I just had to reply.
Sure, AoC is closer to coming into the market, but who are they to speak of "not covering all features promised." Their game, lacks almost half of the stuff promised, the excuse they made was "Well add them later." The invisible walls certainly aren't bugs, they are there to prevent you from skipping zones. To remind you, I am completly neutral to the argument, but I feel like enlightening you blind followers of a game that holds no true promises. They might have Age of Conan fixed in year or two, but before that, use a long stick before touching it. If you have not tested Age of Conan, please, don't contribute anything to this thread, you'll just make a fool of yourself. Its like setting sides with argument that you have no idea about, which in this case holds true. The best thing was; Even slightest critique I made about AoC got me banned from their forums, and the post deleted, and I made that critique similiar to this post, nothing offensive, no inmature flaming, just plain mature critique.
To those who argue about the lack of loading times and say there is no technology to cover that promise. You are wrong, you are very wrong. Even in the 95-99' I don't remember the release date, popped a game with seamless world and no real loading screens, expect the start screen loading. That game was on Playstation 1, a console without real power to support anything considered as "Powerful engine..The name was Legacy of Kain: Soulreaver. I bet some of the older folk here do remember the game and the less than 1 second spike, that without following intensely you didin't even notice the "load", also they used the clever way of putting videos in the game, loading stuff meanwhile.
Tasos did very professionally not making inmature reply, instead he just told us to ignore the whole thing, forget it and let it be. Darkfall indeed has been in development for long time, but now that we've seen yet another graphical improvement, I think they consider the graphical side of the game ready, now that they are actually handcrafting the world unlike most of the other mmorpgs, it takes time, as if it truly is 8 hours trip from south coast to the northern end of the mainland, theres a lot to do. Also, we have already seen Aventurine cut off some of the features they promised, so its really no use to say DF will have everything promised, at least they admitted it. Now to those who say Darkfall never releases anything, look at this years updates, the lore stuff, new screenshots of characters, the new video to show us around, details about cities and their amounts. Yet, in all the hope, there lies a seed of doubt, even in the hearts of Aventurine developers themselves.
Just to notify, you people are comparing mainstream mmorpg to a mmorpg that'll have niche market because of its cruel world. So why to compare? Level/gear based, game with instances versus attempt to create a skill based, non gear depending game with "no real use of levels without being able to use the character properly." We don't know Darkfall's true nature yet, but so far, these games won't be fighting for their sub bases.
I have a right to belive Darkfall will be released, but in which form, that I don't know, but I'm hoping to see new blossom of a real PvP mmorpg. I actually waited for AoC once, but after the changes that have occured, I'm leaving that game alone-
What you like the summarisation muffins made Seggallion?
http://themuffinarium.blogspot.com/
I think its pretty spot on.=)
Aye, he has a point. But not to forget; It's a very very small % from AoCs fan here. But they sure makes the others look bad. And why are a vast majority of trolls/flamers from AoC? Not just in this thread but the others.
______________________________
The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
What you like the summarisation muffins made Seggallion?
http://themuffinarium.blogspot.com/
I think its pretty spot on.=)
Aye, he has a point. But not to forget; It's a very very small % from AoCs fan here. But they sure makes the others look bad. And why are a vast majority of trolls/flamers from AoC? Not just in this thread but the others.
Aye it sure is kinda odd? Might it be they is unsecure of their own game? But if so bashing others wont make their game any better. Its really peculiar if youd ask me.
I think the biggest 'mistake' the the Darkfall dev team made was announcing that the game was coming as early on as they did. Whether or not the game was in production in 2001 isn't the issue. The issue is that we've known the game was coming since 2001. That's a long time to wait, no matter how/when/where the game started development.
The reason the dev's made their announcement might have been to get audience/potential-customer input/feedback, and I think that's great. But the overall penalty is, the game has been 'visible' to the public for a very long time and no product has been delivered.
A lot of other games were announced after 2001 and have already launched and/or have already been out for some time now.
The longer that Darkfall goes without a launch date announcement (alpha/beta/live), the more criticism the game will draw.
To Aragon100 there is absolutely nothing wrong with them taking their time to develop their game. In fact, I applaud them for wanting to make sure their game is the best it can be regardless of how long it takes. I was seriously not bashing the game. My only intention was to give light to why some people have such a pessimistic view of the game. I've been saying all along that I think DF has just as good a chance as any of these other mainstream games of being great, and I believe that.
What I think would work to Adventurine's advantage would be to let a few journalists test the alpha build (of course making sure they always remember it's alpha), and do a little write up on their website or magazine. Also, it'd be a good thing for them to show some aplha vids of combat, and the ui and stuff (I've seen the older combat vids and stuff, but maybe some with the updated graphics.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
All the opponents of Darkfall please answer me this one question:
Since Aventurine is not taking any pre-orders (to justify a large-scale scam on their part by promising an undeliverable product, cashing in on hype and then vanishing), WHAT REASON do they have to claim they are developing a game if they are not?
We know for sure that Aventurine and Darkfall is being partly funded by the EU (software development is subsidized in Greece - check http://www.ypan.gr/c_announce/45_1843_cms.htm and click to open the Word file. It is in Greek, but if you scroll down at #10 you'll see Aventurine got 265.236 Euro for development) and they need to deliver. There is no possibility on earth DF is a scam and not coming out...
in terms of paid man-hours seems like AoC and DF have had very similar amount of development. DF team is small, of course it's going to take a long time so arguments about length of development time are kinda stupid.
personally, i just want a great PVP-oriented MMO to play, because everything that's currently available is sh1t. DF is the closest thing to my ideal MMO so of course i want to see it released, and as a professional prgrammer of 10+ years experience i don't see any technical reason why they should be able to deliver a great PVP sandbox game. AoC i thought might be a contender, but given all the bad writeups on betaleaks.com as well as personal comms with a friend who is in the beta makes me think otherwise.
you guys need to realise that the WOW-style of game probably requires a lot more resources than a DF-style (sandbox) game, for the simple fact that WOW has so much scripted PVE content. in a PVP sandbox game, you're more providing the world and the game mechanics, the players are providing most of the content.
That muffins guy got it pretty correct, i guess the AoC fanbois come over here because they feel threatened.
If you do, don't worry, AOC will be a success because it has boobies and blood, !!
Account has been stolen, why would someone want to steal my account?
So...let me get this straight. It's OK for people to talk crap about AoC, to bash it, to call it a crappy product based on unconfirmed information and second-hand opinions at best....but it is -NOT- OK for people to voice their opinion that DF won't be published because we haven't seen much beyond a few screenshots and short vids of the game......?
Seriously. Think before you post people. The DF crowd is no better (or worse) than any other fanbase of any other game. They, like the others, have idiots among them who just attack without any basis of information. Don#t talk high and mighty. Your game's fanbase is no different from any others.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
only difference being, DF fans trash-talk AoC within their own forums...AoC fans seem to want to aggressively display their hatred for DF by storming others' forums...
Yea....AoC looks awesome....
Btw, has anyone from the DAoC team asked for their combat system back?
Aside from being in the Conan universe, AoC has nothing going for it. Vanguard already proved that graphics are nothing, so what exactly are we looking at? You still have levels, PvP is still restricted, instances, classes...
Jeez, sounds a lot like WoW with blood and boobs to me.
(Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin
only difference being, DF fans trash-talk AoC within their own forums...AoC fans seem to want to aggressively display their hatred for DF by storming others' forums...
Come on...that is a very naive sentiment. We all know that threads recently posted in are displayed on the main site. I personally only look there to see what's going on and if a topic catches my interest I read it. It's not like the DF people stay on their own Fan-Pages.Face it, this is a site for -all- MMO's. You can't expect people not to read what you post here...and expect them not to get angry...like you do...when you trash talk their game.
I personally don't like all the trash-talking. I try to stay civilized and I try to keep an open mind (even though I -AM- going to play AoC), but that doesn't mean I don't see all the back and forth in bashings that's going on here.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Well, DF main criticism on AoC is that it is pathed, not-really-PvP, etc....the same things that AoC beta-testers are whining about really.
AoC criticism on DF is that every single bit of information displayed thus far has been faked. Which doesn't make sense .
Eve Online took a bunch of no names 6 years to develop, had an absolutely horrible alpha and early beta testing phases, and yet it still turned out to be one of the best mmos ever. Go figure.
I am talking about certain people (I won't say names but you can find them easily), calling the game craptastic. Calling it bullsh*t, calling it any kinds of names. That is not criticism, that is outright hatred and attacks on the game without further comments or anything. And this goes from DF to AoC, from AoC to WAR, from WAR to AoC and so on and so forth.
That's what amuses me most. Because, as i stated in my first post, no community of any game is immune to people in their ranks who give the community a bad name. Not DF, not WAR and not AoC. Don't act as though the DF community is a sainthood...because it is not.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
The AoC DFO debate is like one person (DFO) making an argument based on the philosophies and mechanics of the game, while the other (AoC) just say s, "Na na ur a doodoohead and r liar!"
All I need to say is look at the leaked AoC PvP videos. They look horrible. It is aparent that player "aiming" is no more important than your positioning in WoW.
GF AoC, wasn't close.
(Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin
Well, unfounded judgment ,comments and bashing on a game, wherever they may be coming from, are not to be taken seriously. It is emotion speaking rather than reason and I'll agree with you that it is amusing.
I was referring to posts from the so-called "vaporware trolls" that try to prove all DF info we have gotten does not exist and has been faked. That , too, is amusing.
Both are right. And sometimes (not very often sadly) both sides agree actually and just let each other hope for the best for their games.
Most of the time though, one or the other side starts to hit on the other game in one way or another. Calling DF vaporware, attacking the lack of information on one side and leaked Beta-Videos and the age-old "Boobs-and-Blood" crap on the other side and of course the famous "WoW-Clone" on still another side. And all I was saying in my post, was that this kind of sentiment comes from all sides, because someone in this thread postulated that AoC fans are the ones responsible for that, which is, as such, not a true statement.
And that person continuing to post leaked old Beta-Video's, this discussion isn't about this. So quit it already (and yes, a video from 2007 is, in game-developer terms, old).
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Well, both are not right. The vaporware claims have long been refuted, although most opponents of DF selectively choose to forget all the evidence produced to support the opposite.
i.e. this link http://www.ypan.gr/c_announce/45_1843_cms.htm has existed for some time, proving that Aventurine is a solid company working under EU subsidization by the Greek Ministry of Development. Yet not even this can convince them that Aventurine exists and is getting money to make Darkfall...
Wow, I never realized just how sensitive DF fans were until this post. I'm not so sure that open world PvP and KOS is a good idea for this game. If they can't take a few paragraphs that poke fun at or criticize the game, how are they going to take being ganked??