xuul chill there not Warhammer smart yet maybe they will be later but if not then they can stay in there current mmo and let us have are greatest in Warhammer online
The only instanced part of the city siege is the fight with the king and that is so everyone who participated in the siege will have chance to take him on.
Well thought I would just jump in on this discussion <grin> I must admit I intend to play War but seeing the amount of misinformation spreading thought I would inject some points.
Firstly War is not a WOW clone. If its anything its DAoC 2. DAoC came out long before WOW did and War has incorportated a lot of what made DAoC work into War. Yes they may have taken a few aspects from other games such as character development shows some WOW influence but this is what ALL mmorpgs do its what a game keeps the NDA right up to near launch. WOW itself is a DAoC crossed with EQ1 clone with a smattering of Anarchy Online
Now similar to WOW War is aiming for reasonable spec machines I can only guess this is for two reasons firstly they want a wide player base and secondly and perhaps more importantly they want to be able to host massive battles and to have things happening in the background all these take resources s if you build a game which graphics are so intensive that just drawing the basic enviroment and a handful of characters taxes even the highest spec machines your going to have issues in a battlefield.
Character customization yes its limited and I suspect they may have lifted this idea from the WOW system but the character mastery allows you t develop your character along your chosen avenue. Want to be a DPS in heavy armour then choose a hvy armour tank class and focus all your mastery in the dps line. This allows you the ability to customise your character to better match your ideal. Add to this the trophy system by which you can modify your look and if they deliver what they promise your character will not be a cookie cut but rather a unique individual.
Cartoony graphics hmmmm not much I can say about that you either like them or you dont thats a matter of opinion and perfectly valid reason for not playing.
It is possible to play pure PVP or pure PVE but if yu do your missing out on a lot of stuff. Pure PVP means you miss out on the story lines and the campaign development and pure PVE means your missing out on a lot of the fun. Unlike a lot of mmorpgs with PVP this one is designed for it so you actually get built in events and fame. I mean comeon your guild can actually capture and HOLD a keep that means its your until someone comes along and takes it away from you... You get to invade the city of the enemy and burn it to the ground .... Thats a lot of PVP content right there. Also for the pure PVE once a city has fallen to PVP combat there will be special instances opened up which you can do PVE style for example if Atoldorf falls you can invade the Bright Wizards tower. The biggest end boss fights are PVE but needs a PVp element to accomplish it the king of the city fights are 24 man raids which are only doable once you capture a city. So yes plenty of stuff for the purists and even more for the hybrid.
What else was there ahhh yes balance well character balancing does seem on the surface to be paper scissor stone but thats only on the surface. The pure casters in their light armour are at an advantage when facing a tank because the tank is slow moving, and at a disadvantage when facing a fast melee offense because they have limited melee defense. What does this mean it means that the tank will need to use tactics if he knows hes going against a ranged he also knows if he can get close enough the ranged is in trouble... This is why they said that people will need to skill as well as equipment.
Good post Gadareth. Part of me wishes they'd actually make a DAoC 2, I liked the lore and THREE sides instead of TWO. (Horde vs Alliance anyone...?) It was a fun game, very medieval (settings, buildings, backgrounds), which I like. Bah why am I talking about DAoC like it's dead? lol
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
The biggest end boss fights are PVE but needs a PVp element to accomplish it the king of the city fights are 24 man raids...
Well you pretty much just destroyed any interest I had in this game. I had heard rumors to this effect before but you sound pretty sure of it.
So all the PvPers do all the hard work to win the war and then PvE raiders walk in to collect the rewards. Screw that. I hate raiding enough as it is. This sort of set up, where raiders are rewarded for MY EFFORTS while I get to stand around wondering why I bothered would piss me off to the point of unbalancing my mind.
The biggest end boss fights are PVE but needs a PVp element to accomplish it the king of the city fights are 24 man raids...
Well you pretty much just destroyed any interest I had in this game. I had heard rumors to this effect before but you sound pretty sure of it.
So all the PvPers do all the hard work to win the war and then PvE raiders walk in to collect the rewards. Screw that. I hate raiding enough as it is. This sort of set up, where raiders are rewarded for MY EFFORTS while I get to stand around wondering why I bothered would piss me off to the point of unbalancing my mind.
Eh not quite. The PvErs will have instances (3 I think) that were only available to the prior inhabitants of the city. If you helped take the city then you get to fight the king. PvP and PvE mixed together, go figure.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
I plan to give the game a shot, but two things will hold me back, if they turn out to be true: 1) if I discover character level is the primary determinate in PvP battles; ie a level 21 character bests a level 19 character 100% of the time; 2) if it turns out that war is just another grindfest.
I doubt either of the situations will come to pass, however.
The biggest end boss fights are PVE but needs a PVp element to accomplish it the king of the city fights are 24 man raids...
Well you pretty much just destroyed any interest I had in this game. I had heard rumors to this effect before but you sound pretty sure of it.
So all the PvPers do all the hard work to win the war and then PvE raiders walk in to collect the rewards. Screw that. I hate raiding enough as it is. This sort of set up, where raiders are rewarded for MY EFFORTS while I get to stand around wondering why I bothered would piss me off to the point of unbalancing my mind.
Eh not quite. The PvErs will have instances (3 I think) that were only available to the prior inhabitants of the city. If you helped take the city then you get to fight the king. PvP and PvE mixed together, go figure.
I get to fight the king...but only if I'm willing to join a PvE raiding guild and sit through the boring ass 24 person PvE raids?
No thanks. I won't be doing that.
So, as a guy who WILL NOT sit through boring ass PvE raids; what's my motivation to want to win the war? Am I supposed to be excited about winning so that the PvE raiders on my side can get all the rewards?
So how are things going to play out in this game? The enemy team wins and their raiders get all the uber loot. My team wins and our raiders get the uber loot. Then the devs introduce bigger and better PvE raid loot so that the raiders will have new rewards to drool over.
They win, we win, they win, we win...and all the while the PvE raiders are becoming more and more powerfull while the PvPers and small groupers and soloers fall further and further behind. Before long the PvE raiders are frolicing through the battlegrounds one-shoting all the weak equiped non-raiders.
The biggest end boss fights are PVE but needs a PVp element to accomplish it the king of the city fights are 24 man raids...
Well you pretty much just destroyed any interest I had in this game. I had heard rumors to this effect before but you sound pretty sure of it.
So all the PvPers do all the hard work to win the war and then PvE raiders walk in to collect the rewards. Screw that. I hate raiding enough as it is. This sort of set up, where raiders are rewarded for MY EFFORTS while I get to stand around wondering why I bothered would piss me off to the point of unbalancing my mind.
Eh not quite. The PvErs will have instances (3 I think) that were only available to the prior inhabitants of the city. If you helped take the city then you get to fight the king. PvP and PvE mixed together, go figure.
I get to fight the king...but only if I'm willing to join a PvE raiding guild and sit through the boring ass 24 person PvE raids?
No thanks. I won't be doing that.
So, as a guy who WILL NOT sit through boring ass PvE raids; what's my motivation to want to win the war? Am I supposed to be excited about winning so that the PvE raiders on my side can get all the rewards?
So how are things going to play out in this game? The enemy team wins and their raiders get all the uber loot. My team wins and our raiders get the uber loot. Then the devs introduce bigger and better PvE raid loot so that the raiders will have new rewards to drool over.
They win, we win, they win, we win...and all the while the PvE raiders are becoming more and more powerfull while the PvPers and small groupers and soloers fall further and further behind. Before long the PvE raiders are frolicing through the battlegrounds one-shoting all the weak equiped non-raiders.
Hmmm, yeah, that doesn't sound very appealing.
Yep knew it would be like this. The fact is the content relies on continous battles because there isnt much else or its not set up like that. So taking the rare instances and drawing them out into raid like times is the only way to stretch it out. Timesink that being made rarer will keep people playing for the opportunity. Plus its forced as you will want the gear.
I just read that other thread about the king encounters. Apparantly this really is true and not just random speculation.
Seriously, how fucked up can they get? They make a game that's all about a PvP war and then, after weeks of fighting, when the PvPers finally conquer an enemy city, the great reward is that they get to step aside and bow down as the PvE raiders log on to march through the ruins and pick up the 1337 rewards.
Geezus Christ....now I think I hate this game even more than AoC (which I've been hating on for a while now because it's going to favor PvE raiders).
I just read that other thread about the king encounters. Apparantly this really is true and not just random speculation. Seriously, how fucked up can they get? They make a game that's all about a PvP war and then, after weeks of fighting, when the PvPers finally conquer an enemy city, the great reward is that they get to step aside and bow down as the PvE raiders log on to march through the ruins and pick up the 1337 rewards. Geezus Christ....now I think I hate this game even more than AoC (which I've been hating on for a while now because it's going to favor PvE raiders).
Well we had hints of this come back in Novemeber / December. All I wanted was the ability to make an equal piece of gear from crafting, as I prefer the time doing that rather than the long drawn out raid times, but sadly this is not the case.
A well organised raid team will get the march on everyone else in this area and will get set up and get the goods over a PUG group for instance.
Its all about the gear. The reason to kill the king for alot of people will be for the gear, then the realm pride because people are selfish like that. Daoc proved this too.
The biggest end boss fights are PVE but needs a PVp element to accomplish it the king of the city fights are 24 man raids...
Well you pretty much just destroyed any interest I had in this game. I had heard rumors to this effect before but you sound pretty sure of it.
So all the PvPers do all the hard work to win the war and then PvE raiders walk in to collect the rewards. Screw that. I hate raiding enough as it is. This sort of set up, where raiders are rewarded for MY EFFORTS while I get to stand around wondering why I bothered would piss me off to the point of unbalancing my mind.
Before you get to heated up over it. Yes the king fight will be the 24 man raid event one for each city. But I believe from what I have heard and please remember this isnt gospel fact this is my take on watching the developers blogs and feedback videos. The PVP element get a lot of bonuses which include abilities and stats they will have a easier time doing the King fight than the PURE PVE people will. Yes the King fight is a instance yes it stays up long enough so that everyone who helped get to the point that the enemy city falls will have a chance at the king. Surely anyone who is good enough at PVP to help defeat the city they will also be good enough to join up with another 23 fellows and do the deed on the KIng ?
they wanted the king fight to be special and challenging but they also wanted to allow everyone a chance to fight him, just because you missed the final stages of the citys fall (because of work sleep deprivation / bad luck) you should be allowed a chance at him was their argument. There are however supposed to be some specials that only the pvpers will encounter certain named heroes / villans (I think they are pvp conflict encounters but cant swear on it).
Personally my plan is to fully expierence the game I intend to do PVE and PVP and see it all. When the Empire moves in on the Inevitable city I will be in the front line charging the city walls with my trusty Battering Ram. When we finnaly bring it down to its knees I will with a band of brothers storm the Champions Hall to bring down the cities foul leader. Thats what they want they want you to do it ALL. Not just focus on one aspect embrace the whole package !
Also dont forget a lot of content will only be expierenced by the city pvp raiders, they will be the ones to kill and loot some of the visiting heroes also they will be the ones who get to loot and burn the city houses. (again this is only my take from the city siege videos shown on the official website)
Surely anyone who is good enough at PVP to help defeat the city they will also be good enough to join up with another 23 fellows and do the deed on the KIng ?
With PvE raiding it has never been a question of being "good enough". It's a question of whether or not a person is willing to be an ass-kissing flunky in a raiding guild; and whether or not they can play for 5-10 hours at a sitting; and whether or not they are willing to endure hours of mindless, simon-says, follow-the-leader boredom.
I hate that shit with an undying and truly passionate hatred. It's not a question of whether I could do it or if I'm good enough for it. What matters is that I refuse to do it because I can't stand it. I don't pay money so I can suffer through crap that I hate. And if PvE raids are the culmination of the PvP war, where the best rewards are, then as far as I'm concerned they can shove their game up their asses, twist it sideways, and die of cronic constipation.
I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fauning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them. And I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privelege of being an easy target for over-powered toadies.
Originally posted by NeanderthalOriginally posted by Gadareth
Surely anyone who is good enough at PVP to help defeat the city they will also be good enough to join up with another 23 fellows and do the deed on the KIng ?
With PvE raiding it has never been a question of being "good enough". It's a question of whether or not a person is willing to be an ass-kissing flunky in a raiding guild; and whether or not they can play for 5-10 hours at a sitting; and whether or not they are willing to endure hours of mindless, simon-says, follow-the-leader boredom.
I hate that shit with an undying and truly passionate hatred. It's not a question of whether I could do it or if I'm good enough for it. What matters is that I refuse to do it because I can't stand it. I don't pay money so I can suffer through crap that I hate. And if PvE raids are the culmination of the PvP war, where the best rewards are, then as far as I'm concerned they can shove their game up their asses, twist it sideways, and die of cronic constipation.
I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fauning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them. And I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privelege of being an easy target for over-powered toadies.
Impressive response and 100% accurate. I am going to use part of it as my new signature, giving you credit of course. I can only add that I feel no accomplishment being one of many when taking down a boss mob. I feel more accomplishment when soloing any mob. Most guildies I have met possess no skills whatsoever, they just ride the coattails of others and then gloat about what the raid achieved as their personal accomplishment. Yeah right.
They've been saying this for months now...I'm not quite sure where you guys are getting the information that the absolute best is from the King PvE Raid...or that the Raid is a standard Kaplan Raid (EQ / WoW raid) its not. Gear is best earned through a combination of PvE & RvR, but you don't have to participate in anything you don't want to including the raids in order to get the best gear in the game. They've been promoting their equal / equivalent stance on gear so PvPers dont have to PvE and PvEers dont ahve to PvP if they don't want to for a while.
The King Raid is opened through 2 Public Quests that are 1 Shot runs, and its open to everyone. I agree that guilds are going to probably have the quickest organized shot at beating him but that doesn't mean a PUG can't. You don't have to join a group or even a guild to particupate in Public Quests since they're open realm. You get chances at gear equal to your participation and points to buy things from a special vendor that pops up at the end of every PQ. Only when those 2 PQ's are done after the streets are locked down by PvP does the King open. YOu go in and you fight the king..there's no super huge mongo 5 hour WoW style raid quest.
If they were saying this I'd be completely out..I've always hated WoW / EQ raids on principle due to the fact they force you to be in a guild and to kiss guild leader ass.
If you don't want to fight the king there's tons of other activities in the game to earn gear, trophies, and other items from all of which are only available during the City Raid meaning they're all pretty rare.
Anyway this is off topic...you either like it or you don't...
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
If it is true the final showdown with a King will be PVE instanced then many of my friends may have reservations about playing the game (I would probably still try it though). There are many out there that despise instances (that doesn't bother me). There are also many hardcore PVPers who despise raid centric PVE endgame. And then there are many PVErs who despie working with PVPers.
I can't really disagree with that sentiment given that a LOT of the friction between PVPers and PVEers over the years that has been built up throughout many MMORPG's is a result of the distribution of gear/content as it tends to favor one side or the other. Blizzard tries to appease both sides in WoW but there is still complaints made due to the arguing back and forth of the difficulty of PVE vs PVP competition.
Yes for some that do not know RVR requires cooperation between PVErs and PVPers. What is wrong with that? In my view nothing wrong with that.....But in the year 2008 the MMORGP landscape has changed drastically to the point there is a divide between PVPers and PVEers. The communities are not skipping together holding hands and there is a clear divide that can't be ignored.
Lets run down a quick list of what I have observed in some MMORPG's recently:
Lineage II - To be able to PVP you have to PVE. PVErs despise PVPers in this game becuase PVPers in this game tend to be ruthless and relentless in killing them repeatedely. Then again why would a PVEr consider playing this game in the first place?
CoX - A PVE badge collector enters a PVP zone and expects not to be attacked by another player when there are warning signs everywhere that states it so...oh my. PVP can't be balanced in that game becuase of heavy resistance from PVErs.
Everquest II - The level of hatred that I read on that board when they were considering implimenting PVP into the game was amazing. I am talking about mature adults taking potshots and namecalling PVPers as if they were scum on earth.
SWG - Not going there (lol).
WoW - World PVP led to a lot of conflict for PVE players. Implimentation of Battlegrounds alleviated that problem somewhat but from a PVPers point of view it is compromising too much to have PVP in a few instanced maps that is done repeatedely over and over and over again. That is why there is so much discussion of bringing back world PVP in WoW.
It could be argued all these games (except L2) were made with PVE first in mind and PVP just tagged along. With that said Aoc and WAR are trying to impliment both elements together at the same time. The problems AoC will have may mirror the issues Lineage II has currently but hopefully it doesn't turn into "need to PVE to PVP game" as well or the jaded PVPers looking for a PVP game will be still looking.
WAR will be unique in that no one truly knows how RVR will be received by jaded hardcore PVE and PVP communities that exists (especially the ones that are currently playing WoW) in todays landscape. But asking them to work together will be a huge task to undertake. I mean can you not sense the disgust/dissapointment in some of the PVPers posting about assisting PVErs in this very thread already? That is a taste of what is to come I am afraid. And then PVers helping to gear up PVPers? Good luck with that.
Comments
lol new baby trolls taking their first few steps into flaming.
Bollocks!
I WILL be playing WAR because Mythic's DAOC was the best PvP I ever played.
I think they will go two for two with WAR.
I all ready played WoW and got bored with it.. Why would I want to play it again under a different name?
Warp
I won't play it because it's made by mythic entertainment, no other reason is necessary.
Hooray for yet another original and informed opinion.
Who the fuck is interested in the opinion of u 14 year old kids w´ho have no idea of games, mmos and in particular Warhammer?! NOONE!
Noob Thread, mentioning most people havent actually seen the game...
xuul chill there not Warhammer smart yet maybe they will be later but if not then they can stay in there current mmo and let us have are greatest in Warhammer online
The only instanced part of the city siege is the fight with the king and that is so everyone who participated in the siege will have chance to take him on.
Games I've Played: WoW, FFXI, SWG, CoH, EVE Online
Games I'm Waiting for: WAR, Stargate Worlds
Well thought I would just jump in on this discussion <grin> I must admit I intend to play War but seeing the amount of misinformation spreading thought I would inject some points.
Firstly War is not a WOW clone. If its anything its DAoC 2. DAoC came out long before WOW did and War has incorportated a lot of what made DAoC work into War. Yes they may have taken a few aspects from other games such as character development shows some WOW influence but this is what ALL mmorpgs do its what a game keeps the NDA right up to near launch. WOW itself is a DAoC crossed with EQ1 clone with a smattering of Anarchy Online
Now similar to WOW War is aiming for reasonable spec machines I can only guess this is for two reasons firstly they want a wide player base and secondly and perhaps more importantly they want to be able to host massive battles and to have things happening in the background all these take resources s if you build a game which graphics are so intensive that just drawing the basic enviroment and a handful of characters taxes even the highest spec machines your going to have issues in a battlefield.
Character customization yes its limited and I suspect they may have lifted this idea from the WOW system but the character mastery allows you t develop your character along your chosen avenue. Want to be a DPS in heavy armour then choose a hvy armour tank class and focus all your mastery in the dps line. This allows you the ability to customise your character to better match your ideal. Add to this the trophy system by which you can modify your look and if they deliver what they promise your character will not be a cookie cut but rather a unique individual.
Cartoony graphics hmmmm not much I can say about that you either like them or you dont thats a matter of opinion and perfectly valid reason for not playing.
It is possible to play pure PVP or pure PVE but if yu do your missing out on a lot of stuff. Pure PVP means you miss out on the story lines and the campaign development and pure PVE means your missing out on a lot of the fun. Unlike a lot of mmorpgs with PVP this one is designed for it so you actually get built in events and fame. I mean comeon your guild can actually capture and HOLD a keep that means its your until someone comes along and takes it away from you... You get to invade the city of the enemy and burn it to the ground .... Thats a lot of PVP content right there. Also for the pure PVE once a city has fallen to PVP combat there will be special instances opened up which you can do PVE style for example if Atoldorf falls you can invade the Bright Wizards tower. The biggest end boss fights are PVE but needs a PVp element to accomplish it the king of the city fights are 24 man raids which are only doable once you capture a city. So yes plenty of stuff for the purists and even more for the hybrid.
What else was there ahhh yes balance well character balancing does seem on the surface to be paper scissor stone but thats only on the surface. The pure casters in their light armour are at an advantage when facing a tank because the tank is slow moving, and at a disadvantage when facing a fast melee offense because they have limited melee defense. What does this mean it means that the tank will need to use tactics if he knows hes going against a ranged he also knows if he can get close enough the ranged is in trouble... This is why they said that people will need to skill as well as equipment.
Well just my 2 cents
Gadareth
Good post Gadareth. Part of me wishes they'd actually make a DAoC 2, I liked the lore and THREE sides instead of TWO. (Horde vs Alliance anyone...?) It was a fun game, very medieval (settings, buildings, backgrounds), which I like. Bah why am I talking about DAoC like it's dead? lol
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
So all the PvPers do all the hard work to win the war and then PvE raiders walk in to collect the rewards. Screw that. I hate raiding enough as it is. This sort of set up, where raiders are rewarded for MY EFFORTS while I get to stand around wondering why I bothered would piss me off to the point of unbalancing my mind.
So all the PvPers do all the hard work to win the war and then PvE raiders walk in to collect the rewards. Screw that. I hate raiding enough as it is. This sort of set up, where raiders are rewarded for MY EFFORTS while I get to stand around wondering why I bothered would piss me off to the point of unbalancing my mind.
Eh not quite. The PvErs will have instances (3 I think) that were only available to the prior inhabitants of the city. If you helped take the city then you get to fight the king. PvP and PvE mixed together, go figure.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I plan to give the game a shot, but two things will hold me back, if they turn out to be true: 1) if I discover character level is the primary determinate in PvP battles; ie a level 21 character bests a level 19 character 100% of the time; 2) if it turns out that war is just another grindfest.
I doubt either of the situations will come to pass, however.
So all the PvPers do all the hard work to win the war and then PvE raiders walk in to collect the rewards. Screw that. I hate raiding enough as it is. This sort of set up, where raiders are rewarded for MY EFFORTS while I get to stand around wondering why I bothered would piss me off to the point of unbalancing my mind.
Eh not quite. The PvErs will have instances (3 I think) that were only available to the prior inhabitants of the city. If you helped take the city then you get to fight the king. PvP and PvE mixed together, go figure.
I get to fight the king...but only if I'm willing to join a PvE raiding guild and sit through the boring ass 24 person PvE raids?
No thanks. I won't be doing that.
So, as a guy who WILL NOT sit through boring ass PvE raids; what's my motivation to want to win the war? Am I supposed to be excited about winning so that the PvE raiders on my side can get all the rewards?
So how are things going to play out in this game? The enemy team wins and their raiders get all the uber loot. My team wins and our raiders get the uber loot. Then the devs introduce bigger and better PvE raid loot so that the raiders will have new rewards to drool over.
They win, we win, they win, we win...and all the while the PvE raiders are becoming more and more powerfull while the PvPers and small groupers and soloers fall further and further behind. Before long the PvE raiders are frolicing through the battlegrounds one-shoting all the weak equiped non-raiders.
Hmmm, yeah, that doesn't sound very appealing.
So all the PvPers do all the hard work to win the war and then PvE raiders walk in to collect the rewards. Screw that. I hate raiding enough as it is. This sort of set up, where raiders are rewarded for MY EFFORTS while I get to stand around wondering why I bothered would piss me off to the point of unbalancing my mind.
Eh not quite. The PvErs will have instances (3 I think) that were only available to the prior inhabitants of the city. If you helped take the city then you get to fight the king. PvP and PvE mixed together, go figure.
I get to fight the king...but only if I'm willing to join a PvE raiding guild and sit through the boring ass 24 person PvE raids?
No thanks. I won't be doing that.
So, as a guy who WILL NOT sit through boring ass PvE raids; what's my motivation to want to win the war? Am I supposed to be excited about winning so that the PvE raiders on my side can get all the rewards?
So how are things going to play out in this game? The enemy team wins and their raiders get all the uber loot. My team wins and our raiders get the uber loot. Then the devs introduce bigger and better PvE raid loot so that the raiders will have new rewards to drool over.
They win, we win, they win, we win...and all the while the PvE raiders are becoming more and more powerfull while the PvPers and small groupers and soloers fall further and further behind. Before long the PvE raiders are frolicing through the battlegrounds one-shoting all the weak equiped non-raiders.
Hmmm, yeah, that doesn't sound very appealing.
Yep knew it would be like this. The fact is the content relies on continous battles because there isnt much else or its not set up like that. So taking the rare instances and drawing them out into raid like times is the only way to stretch it out. Timesink that being made rarer will keep people playing for the opportunity. Plus its forced as you will want the gear.
I just read that other thread about the king encounters. Apparantly this really is true and not just random speculation.
Seriously, how fucked up can they get? They make a game that's all about a PvP war and then, after weeks of fighting, when the PvPers finally conquer an enemy city, the great reward is that they get to step aside and bow down as the PvE raiders log on to march through the ruins and pick up the 1337 rewards.
Geezus Christ....now I think I hate this game even more than AoC (which I've been hating on for a while now because it's going to favor PvE raiders).
Could you explain in details how do you imagine killing King in PvP?
A well organised raid team will get the march on everyone else in this area and will get set up and get the goods over a PUG group for instance.
Its all about the gear. The reason to kill the king for alot of people will be for the gear, then the realm pride because people are selfish like that. Daoc proved this too.
Well you pretty much just destroyed any interest I had in this game. I had heard rumors to this effect before but you sound pretty sure of it.So all the PvPers do all the hard work to win the war and then PvE raiders walk in to collect the rewards. Screw that. I hate raiding enough as it is. This sort of set up, where raiders are rewarded for MY EFFORTS while I get to stand around wondering why I bothered would piss me off to the point of unbalancing my mind.
Before you get to heated up over it. Yes the king fight will be the 24 man raid event one for each city. But I believe from what I have heard and please remember this isnt gospel fact this is my take on watching the developers blogs and feedback videos. The PVP element get a lot of bonuses which include abilities and stats they will have a easier time doing the King fight than the PURE PVE people will. Yes the King fight is a instance yes it stays up long enough so that everyone who helped get to the point that the enemy city falls will have a chance at the king. Surely anyone who is good enough at PVP to help defeat the city they will also be good enough to join up with another 23 fellows and do the deed on the KIng ?
they wanted the king fight to be special and challenging but they also wanted to allow everyone a chance to fight him, just because you missed the final stages of the citys fall (because of work sleep deprivation / bad luck) you should be allowed a chance at him was their argument. There are however supposed to be some specials that only the pvpers will encounter certain named heroes / villans (I think they are pvp conflict encounters but cant swear on it).
Personally my plan is to fully expierence the game I intend to do PVE and PVP and see it all. When the Empire moves in on the Inevitable city I will be in the front line charging the city walls with my trusty Battering Ram. When we finnaly bring it down to its knees I will with a band of brothers storm the Champions Hall to bring down the cities foul leader. Thats what they want they want you to do it ALL. Not just focus on one aspect embrace the whole package !
Also dont forget a lot of content will only be expierenced by the city pvp raiders, they will be the ones to kill and loot some of the visiting heroes also they will be the ones who get to loot and burn the city houses. (again this is only my take from the city siege videos shown on the official website)
Just my 2 cents
Gadareth
That dude in the promo videos who thinks he's funny.
I hate that shit with an undying and truly passionate hatred. It's not a question of whether I could do it or if I'm good enough for it. What matters is that I refuse to do it because I can't stand it. I don't pay money so I can suffer through crap that I hate. And if PvE raids are the culmination of the PvP war, where the best rewards are, then as far as I'm concerned they can shove their game up their asses, twist it sideways, and die of cronic constipation.
I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fauning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them. And I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privelege of being an easy target for over-powered toadies.
I hate that shit with an undying and truly passionate hatred. It's not a question of whether I could do it or if I'm good enough for it. What matters is that I refuse to do it because I can't stand it. I don't pay money so I can suffer through crap that I hate. And if PvE raids are the culmination of the PvP war, where the best rewards are, then as far as I'm concerned they can shove their game up their asses, twist it sideways, and die of cronic constipation.
I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fauning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them. And I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privelege of being an easy target for over-powered toadies.
Impressive response and 100% accurate. I am going to use part of it as my new signature, giving you credit of course. I can only add that I feel no accomplishment being one of many when taking down a boss mob. I feel more accomplishment when soloing any mob. Most guildies I have met possess no skills whatsoever, they just ride the coattails of others and then gloat about what the raid achieved as their personal accomplishment. Yeah right.
That's a rare honor indeed, Samuraisword. I am genuinely flattered.
They've been saying this for months now...I'm not quite sure where you guys are getting the information that the absolute best is from the King PvE Raid...or that the Raid is a standard Kaplan Raid (EQ / WoW raid) its not. Gear is best earned through a combination of PvE & RvR, but you don't have to participate in anything you don't want to including the raids in order to get the best gear in the game. They've been promoting their equal / equivalent stance on gear so PvPers dont have to PvE and PvEers dont ahve to PvP if they don't want to for a while.
The King Raid is opened through 2 Public Quests that are 1 Shot runs, and its open to everyone. I agree that guilds are going to probably have the quickest organized shot at beating him but that doesn't mean a PUG can't. You don't have to join a group or even a guild to particupate in Public Quests since they're open realm. You get chances at gear equal to your participation and points to buy things from a special vendor that pops up at the end of every PQ. Only when those 2 PQ's are done after the streets are locked down by PvP does the King open. YOu go in and you fight the king..there's no super huge mongo 5 hour WoW style raid quest.
If they were saying this I'd be completely out..I've always hated WoW / EQ raids on principle due to the fact they force you to be in a guild and to kiss guild leader ass.
If you don't want to fight the king there's tons of other activities in the game to earn gear, trophies, and other items from all of which are only available during the City Raid meaning they're all pretty rare.
Anyway this is off topic...you either like it or you don't...
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
If it is true the final showdown with a King will be PVE instanced then many of my friends may have reservations about playing the game (I would probably still try it though). There are many out there that despise instances (that doesn't bother me). There are also many hardcore PVPers who despise raid centric PVE endgame. And then there are many PVErs who despie working with PVPers.
I can't really disagree with that sentiment given that a LOT of the friction between PVPers and PVEers over the years that has been built up throughout many MMORPG's is a result of the distribution of gear/content as it tends to favor one side or the other. Blizzard tries to appease both sides in WoW but there is still complaints made due to the arguing back and forth of the difficulty of PVE vs PVP competition.
Yes for some that do not know RVR requires cooperation between PVErs and PVPers. What is wrong with that? In my view nothing wrong with that.....But in the year 2008 the MMORGP landscape has changed drastically to the point there is a divide between PVPers and PVEers. The communities are not skipping together holding hands and there is a clear divide that can't be ignored.
Lets run down a quick list of what I have observed in some MMORPG's recently:
Lineage II - To be able to PVP you have to PVE. PVErs despise PVPers in this game becuase PVPers in this game tend to be ruthless and relentless in killing them repeatedely. Then again why would a PVEr consider playing this game in the first place?
CoX - A PVE badge collector enters a PVP zone and expects not to be attacked by another player when there are warning signs everywhere that states it so...oh my. PVP can't be balanced in that game becuase of heavy resistance from PVErs.
Everquest II - The level of hatred that I read on that board when they were considering implimenting PVP into the game was amazing. I am talking about mature adults taking potshots and namecalling PVPers as if they were scum on earth.
SWG - Not going there (lol).
WoW - World PVP led to a lot of conflict for PVE players. Implimentation of Battlegrounds alleviated that problem somewhat but from a PVPers point of view it is compromising too much to have PVP in a few instanced maps that is done repeatedely over and over and over again. That is why there is so much discussion of bringing back world PVP in WoW.
It could be argued all these games (except L2) were made with PVE first in mind and PVP just tagged along. With that said Aoc and WAR are trying to impliment both elements together at the same time. The problems AoC will have may mirror the issues Lineage II has currently but hopefully it doesn't turn into "need to PVE to PVP game" as well or the jaded PVPers looking for a PVP game will be still looking.
WAR will be unique in that no one truly knows how RVR will be received by jaded hardcore PVE and PVP communities that exists (especially the ones that are currently playing WoW) in todays landscape. But asking them to work together will be a huge task to undertake. I mean can you not sense the disgust/dissapointment in some of the PVPers posting about assisting PVErs in this very thread already? That is a taste of what is to come I am afraid. And then PVers helping to gear up PVPers? Good luck with that.