"But we f**king launched a godd**ned game. We launched a SECOND succesful MMO (post-uo). We made a f**king amazing space game using the same f**king game engine, integrated action combat, interior spaceships and in 9 MOTHERf**kING MONTHS, all while running a succesful, cash positive product."
Yeah right. And then the ship sunk. I guess that is the definition of delusional disorder? I think that the MMO industry is packed with clueless people pretending to be "game designers". And by clueless I mean that they dont have any idea about what is fun and what is not, not able to implement and deliver the simplest mechanic, not able to work in a team as professionals, not able to follow procedures. And apart from that most of them feel so unique and special, to the point where they present their incompetence as "art". No wonder why most MMOs are so bad.
I sifted throug the thread and saw something fly by about me working for sony. Its kinda funny but anyone who is contrary to the common line of thinking must work for sony or be a "spy" or something. I also read all versions of his blog. The guy has a foul mouth but asside from that there is an apology in there. I play video games Im used to foul mouths on grown adults by now if i wasn't I probably would have stopped playing them long ago. In any event feel free to accuse or state that people who post here work for sony. Its interesting to watch but I would think that sony cant be bothered with this board or much else that is this mess carry on with the rants in the vets forum .. no I dont work for sony my username on the sony forums is ultrabluebottle (easy enough to find). sony employees have red names my is not red but purple and dated 2003 the year the game was released. Meh whatever *grins at the "you work for sony" remarks* Yes I think for myself. NO i dont hold with a lot of what people say because I dont necessarily agree with it all. I long ago drew my own conclusions and it was that sony made a mistake. They have to my satisfaction corrected it and as a result I started playing their stupid games again. .. /shrugs lol at works for sony (can't get over that one..) I should not be so surprised.. rofl
As I said, SOE has a long history of hiring people to work damage control...and then denying it. They've had people on just about every board imaginable talking up and defending their crappy products.
...and when they get caught, well they're sorry again...but then the damage controllers stay on the payroll and continue their work....
Sidenote - I doubt you play SWG in its current form (outside of maybe a little here and a little there.) I doubt that you think SWG in NGE form is cutting edge, great and one of the best games ever made. So why are you in here defending it and this idiot programmer so hard unless you're tied to them somehow?
I didn't get something, It is not only they destroyed the game, stole our prepaid money, destroyed the community friends but thats not enough and that guys wants me to eat d..k and f..k myself.
Originally posted by ummax I sifted throug the thread and saw something fly by about me working for sony. Its kinda funny but anyone who is contrary to the common line of thinking must work for sony or be a "spy" or something. I also read all versions of his blog. The guy has a foul mouth but asside from that there is an apology in there. I play video games Im used to foul mouths on grown adults by now if i wasn't I probably would have stopped playing them long ago. In any event feel free to accuse or state that people who post here work for sony. Its interesting to watch but I would think that sony cant be bothered with this board or much else that is this mess carry on with the rants in the vets forum .. no I dont work for sony my username on the sony forums is ultrabluebottle (easy enough to find). sony employees have red names my is not red but purple and dated 2003 the year the game was released. Meh whatever *grins at the "you work for sony" remarks* Yes I think for myself. NO i dont hold with a lot of what people say because I dont necessarily agree with it all. I long ago drew my own conclusions and it was that sony made a mistake. They have to my satisfaction corrected it and as a result I started playing their stupid games again. .. /shrugs lol at works for sony (can't get over that one..) I should not be so surprised.. rofl
So in other words, you knowngly and willingly defend wrongdoers, and attack the victims of that wrongdoing, on a regular basis, completely free of charge?
Just to clear something up for you. Apologies do not start out with telling people to screw off, go suck some someones C**K or anything similar. They also don't show pride for their actions and tell anyone who disagrees with what they have done to deal with it and refer back to the above insults.
I have no doubt you play SOE games. That is the only possible reason why you could read that trash and call it anything resembling an apology. That is just mind boggling. This is a shining reason of the lowered expectations of some companies subscribers. Smed or anyone associated with SOE could take a big steamy dump on their living room carpet and they would thank and defend them for it.
firstly I'll apologize for not reading the whole thread and also I for the fact that I know nothing about programming....
but here goes anyway....
Surely the pre-cu game code is, umm, on the cd's of the game when it shipped?...
I'm sure there is some reason like, oh there's all sorts of stuff in the background etc. etc. but, well... this idea appeals to my logic.
can anyone tell me why / how the pre-cu code isn't on the cd's that shipped at release?
First of all, what you get on the CDs is the binaries. These cannot be used to further develop, tweak or fix the game. The only thing it does is run. What you need is the source code. Secondly, the CDs contain the client binaries only. We also need the server!
But still, I cannot believe that the SOE does not have the code. It is definitly kept in the history of the source conrol system that SOE uses. Except if they wiped it, which would be a worlds first in software engineering!
and last i checked the cd didnt have the server code, database coding, etc on it. what you have is the client side commands...which will help you absolutely 0% without the server code and db
Stupid idiots. People where leaving in droves becouse of the bugs and lack of content. Now both those flaws was becouse the game was released to early. So instead of making content. They where to busy fixing stuff.
Then some idiot canceled the CURB for the CU. As i understand the CURB would have fixed a lot of stuff that was broken with combat, armour and buffs. So people got angry and a huge amount of players left the game in the spring and summer of 2005.
Then the NGE. Nothing like relaunching the game with a sub alpha state of product to piss of the 200k players that stayed after the CU. So after a huge mistake with the CU they went on and really made the ultimate mistake with the NGE and made MMORPG history. The suicide of a MMORPG.
Hauken Stormchaser I want pre-CU back Station.com : We got your game Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
and last i checked the cd didnt have the server code, database coding, etc on it. what you have is the client side commands...which will help you absolutely 0% without the server code and db
thanks to those who took the time to explain, as I said I really have no idea about these things.
Stupid idiots. People where leaving in droves becouse of the bugs and lack of content. Now both those flaws was becouse the game was released to early. So instead of making content. They where to busy fixing stuff. Then some idiot canceled the CURB for the CU. As i understand the CURB would have fixed a lot of stuff that was broken with combat, armour and buffs. So people got angry and a huge amount of players left the game in the spring and summer of 2005. Then the NGE. Nothing like relaunching the game with a sub alpha state of product to piss of the 200k players that stayed after the CU. So after a huge mistake with the CU they went on and really made the ultimate mistake with the NGE and made MMORPG history. The suicide of a MMORPG.
I agree. $OE was too busy focusing on expansion development instead of fixing the the core game. After JTL, the next two expansions ushered entire (and unwanted) game revamps, the last one (NGE) causing more than a 200k subscriber loss that was never recovered.
The exploits and bugs that were allowed to fester, along with the piss poor customer service, were responsible for most of the poor player retention before the unwanted revamps IMHO. They did try putting in some content, like the Warren, Corvette, etc, but they couldn't stay focused on priorities. Content and expansions are all fine and good, but not when the core game needed so much work - which should have been the number one priority. I still wonder how great this game would be today if it had been fixed early on instead of all the time and resources wasted on revamps/expansions.
I have said EVER since the POS NGE was forced upon us that $OE has kept ALL the versions of code they have ever written.
I knew this because I work for a software company. I said $OE will keep ALL versions of code if for no other reason ... for debugging purposes.
After being told by numerous people (fanbois mainly) and $OE trying to tell everyone (another lie) that they don't have it anymore ... I am glad to see that I have been proven right.
I am truly amazed that this socalled game developer said "when people want pink bunnies you give them pink bunnies" , obviously he didn't have enough common sense to realize that you can't be all things to all people.
What $OE should have done was realize that before Wow (which had 10 years and is in 13 different countries, of building a customer playerbase), SWG was THE FASTEST growing MMO in history and they should have spent thier time and money fixing and expanding what they had, instead of reinventing the wheel.
Well, $OE, has crapped in my hat for far too long. Nothing can entice me to ever go back to $OE under any circumstances. I will never again give $OE another opportunity to lie and swindle me out of my money.
Beat me to it. Didn't Smed say that they couldn't do classic servers because they did not keep the old code? Waiting for the day someone holds this guy accountable for all his lies to paying customers.
Originally posted by Hauken Then some idiot canceled the CURB for the CU. As i understand the CURB would have fixed a lot of stuff that was broken with combat, armour and buffs. So people got angry and a huge amount of players left the game in the spring and summer of 2005.
This, I remember well. Each correspondent selected 5 people who knew the profession under the premise that changes would be worked out, then implemented and tested in a sanbox test server. Months were spent working it all out. (I wonder if anyone has an archive of the old curb forum.) Whenever anyone asked when the sandbox would be up, they'd say they were working on the alpha code and it would be "soon". Never happened. In the end, they said thanks for all the hard work, ignored it all, and implemented the CU.
I remember the polls from the CU beta. Every day, the result was universal suckage. They implemented it anyway. While I can't document it, one dev when asked why they didn't pay attention to the polls stated that they were so universally negative they were dismissed as invalid.
Well, the CU did suck. It played as slow as thick mud. We told them it was too slow in beta, they "fixed" it by increasing the amout of xp per kill and had no concept this wouldn't make the game any faster. Not even a year later they said they had to change it again because the game was too slow and not starwarsy enough... lol.
The CU trashed the game. SWG failed not because it was a bad system, but there was a game system with no game, in other words no content. Many of us played regardless because the system was unique and totally open, one could do anything they wanted.
As for apologies, in order to be accepted they need to be sincere and an attempt at restitution needs to be made. I have seen neither.
Originally posted by Hauken Then some idiot canceled the CURB for the CU. As i understand the CURB would have fixed a lot of stuff that was broken with combat, armour and buffs. So people got angry and a huge amount of players left the game in the spring and summer of 2005.
This, I remember well. Each correspondent selected 5 people who knew the profession under the premise that changes would be worked out, then implemented and tested in a sanbox test server. Months were spent working it all out. (I wonder if anyone has an archive of the old curb forum.) Whenever anyone asked when the sandbox would be up, they'd say they were working on the alpha code and it would be "soon". Never happened. In the end, they said thanks for all the hard work, ignored it all, and implemented the CU.
I remember the polls from the CU beta. Every day, the result was universal suckage. They implemented it anyway. While I can't document it, one dev when asked why they didn't pay attention to the polls stated that they were so universally negative they were dismissed as invalid.
Well, the CU did suck. It played as slow as thick mud. We told them it was too slow in beta, they "fixed" it by increasing the amout of xp per kill and had no concept this wouldn't make the game any faster. Not even a year later they said they had to change it again because the game was too slow and not starwarsy enough... lol.
The CU trashed the game. SWG failed not because it was a bad system, but there was a game system with no game, in other words no content. Many of us played regardless because the system was unique and totally open, one could do anything they wanted.
As for apologies, in order to be accepted they need to be sincere and an attempt at restitution needs to be made. I have seen neither.
I was one of the five marksman testers for the CURB. We never got to actually playtest anything...all we ever got was an advance look at some of the design concept documents, and a forum to discuss them on.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
I was one of the five marksman testers for the CURB. We never got to actually playtest anything...all we ever got was an advance look at some of the design concept documents, and a forum to discuss them on.
Wow, now thats something I didn't know. I thought there had been some playtesting involved.
Wouldn't happen to have any of those design concept documents still, would you? I would love to put them up in our file archives.
I was one of the five marksman testers for the CURB. We never got to actually playtest anything...all we ever got was an advance look at some of the design concept documents, and a forum to discuss them on.
Wow, now thats something I didn't know. I thought there had been some playtesting involved.
Wouldn't happen to have any of those design concept documents still, would you? I would love to put them up in our file archives.
Alas, if I have them still, they're only in hardcopy form, with no means to redigitize them.
They did eventually release most of them, but some of the earliest versions, from right after JTL went live, talked about retaining the HAM, but making it so that you had to drain down all three pools to incap a player. Going down to zero mind or action would basically kill your ablity to spam specials, or in the case of healers, heal. Which would have addressed the issue of the "unhealable pool" being everyone's achilles heel and giving CMs, riflemen, and the heavy swords a decisive advantage in PvP.
Of course, the effect of such a change would have prolonged combat, not sped it up, and Lucas Arts wasn't happy with the fact that combat took so long. Never mind that one shot kills are pretty unfun if you're on the receiving end.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Well, thanks for the info, though. May try and scour the web for the documents. Never really had the chance to see all of what they proposed. Would have been interesting to see how it all would have played out had they stuck with it.
I was one of the five marksman testers for the CURB. We never got to actually playtest anything...all we ever got was an advance look at some of the design concept documents, and a forum to discuss them on.
Wow, now thats something I didn't know. I thought there had been some playtesting involved. Wouldn't happen to have any of those design concept documents still, would you? I would love to put them up in our file archives.
the CURB documents were included in biophilia's scrapbook (version 5.1)
LOL! Love That Jest0r !!!1111ONEONE!!!!!ELEVEN!!!!!
By the way, is the next Rodo Report going to comment on the Rubenfeld Blog?
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I was one of the five marksman testers for the CURB. We never got to actually playtest anything...all we ever got was an advance look at some of the design concept documents, and a forum to discuss them on.
Wow, now thats something I didn't know. I thought there had been some playtesting involved.
Wouldn't happen to have any of those design concept documents still, would you? I would love to put them up in our file archives.
the CURB documents were included in biophilia's scrapbook (version 5.1)
Many thanks. Will go pay a visit to the community's unsung hero and his wonderful archive.
Comments
"But we f**king launched a godd**ned game. We launched a SECOND succesful MMO (post-uo). We made a f**king amazing space game using the same f**king game engine, integrated action combat, interior spaceships and in 9 MOTHERf**kING MONTHS, all while running a succesful, cash positive product."
Yeah right. And then the ship sunk. I guess that is the definition of delusional disorder? I think that the MMO industry is packed with clueless people pretending to be "game designers". And by clueless I mean that they dont have any idea about what is fun and what is not, not able to implement and deliver the simplest mechanic, not able to work in a team as professionals, not able to follow procedures. And apart from that most of them feel so unique and special, to the point where they present their incompetence as "art". No wonder why most MMOs are so bad.
As I said, SOE has a long history of hiring people to work damage control...and then denying it. They've had people on just about every board imaginable talking up and defending their crappy products.
...and when they get caught, well they're sorry again...but then the damage controllers stay on the payroll and continue their work....
Sidenote - I doubt you play SWG in its current form (outside of maybe a little here and a little there.) I doubt that you think SWG in NGE form is cutting edge, great and one of the best games ever made. So why are you in here defending it and this idiot programmer so hard unless you're tied to them somehow?
asdfg
http://rubenfield.com/?p=86
By maintaining old code I think he meant the squad leader upgrade was being worked on at the same time they were doing the NGE.
Also, Raph Koster's website is way better and he doesn't need to swear to be cool http://www.raphkoster.com/
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Fascinating.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Ummax,
Just to clear something up for you. Apologies do not start out with telling people to screw off, go suck some someones C**K or anything similar. They also don't show pride for their actions and tell anyone who disagrees with what they have done to deal with it and refer back to the above insults.
I have no doubt you play SOE games. That is the only possible reason why you could read that trash and call it anything resembling an apology. That is just mind boggling. This is a shining reason of the lowered expectations of some companies subscribers. Smed or anyone associated with SOE could take a big steamy dump on their living room carpet and they would thank and defend them for it.
firstly I'll apologize for not reading the whole thread and also I for the fact that I know nothing about programming....
but here goes anyway....
Surely the pre-cu game code is, umm, on the cd's of the game when it shipped?...
I'm sure there is some reason like, oh there's all sorts of stuff in the background etc. etc. but, well... this idea appeals to my logic.
can anyone tell me why / how the pre-cu code isn't on the cd's that shipped at release?
Somehow I doubt they were shipping out CDs with uncompiled code on them. Then again, we are talking about SOE here.
First of all, what you get on the CDs is the binaries. These cannot be used to further develop, tweak or fix the game. The only thing it does is run. What you need is the source code. Secondly, the CDs contain the client binaries only. We also need the server!
But still, I cannot believe that the SOE does not have the code. It is definitly kept in the history of the source conrol system that SOE uses. Except if they wiped it, which would be a worlds first in software engineering!
and last i checked the cd didnt have the server code, database coding, etc on it. what you have is the client side commands...which will help you absolutely 0% without the server code and db
Stupid idiots. People where leaving in droves becouse of the bugs and lack of content. Now both those flaws was becouse the game was released to early. So instead of making content. They where to busy fixing stuff.
Then some idiot canceled the CURB for the CU. As i understand the CURB would have fixed a lot of stuff that was broken with combat, armour and buffs. So people got angry and a huge amount of players left the game in the spring and summer of 2005.
Then the NGE. Nothing like relaunching the game with a sub alpha state of product to piss of the 200k players that stayed after the CU. So after a huge mistake with the CU they went on and really made the ultimate mistake with the NGE and made MMORPG history. The suicide of a MMORPG.
Hauken Stormchaser
I want pre-CU back
Station.com : We got your game
Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
thanks to those who took the time to explain, as I said I really have no idea about these things.
no prob
I agree. $OE was too busy focusing on expansion development instead of fixing the the core game. After JTL, the next two expansions ushered entire (and unwanted) game revamps, the last one (NGE) causing more than a 200k subscriber loss that was never recovered.
The exploits and bugs that were allowed to fester, along with the piss poor customer service, were responsible for most of the poor player retention before the unwanted revamps IMHO. They did try putting in some content, like the Warren, Corvette, etc, but they couldn't stay focused on priorities. Content and expansions are all fine and good, but not when the core game needed so much work - which should have been the number one priority. I still wonder how great this game would be today if it had been fixed early on instead of all the time and resources wasted on revamps/expansions.
I have said EVER since the POS NGE was forced upon us that $OE has kept ALL the versions of code they have ever written.
I knew this because I work for a software company. I said $OE will keep ALL versions of code if for no other reason ... for debugging purposes.
After being told by numerous people (fanbois mainly) and $OE trying to tell everyone (another lie) that they don't have it anymore ... I am glad to see that I have been proven right.
I am truly amazed that this socalled game developer said "when people want pink bunnies you give them pink bunnies" , obviously he didn't have enough common sense to realize that you can't be all things to all people.
What $OE should have done was realize that before Wow (which had 10 years and is in 13 different countries, of building a customer playerbase), SWG was THE FASTEST growing MMO in history and they should have spent thier time and money fixing and expanding what they had, instead of reinventing the wheel.
Well, $OE, has crapped in my hat for far too long. Nothing can entice me to ever go back to $OE under any circumstances. I will never again give $OE another opportunity to lie and swindle me out of my money.
http://rubenfield.com/?p=86
Beat me to it. Didn't Smed say that they couldn't do classic servers because they did not keep the old code? Waiting for the day someone holds this guy accountable for all his lies to paying customers.
Yes he did say that. Hence my post above.
This, I remember well. Each correspondent selected 5 people who knew the profession under the premise that changes would be worked out, then implemented and tested in a sanbox test server. Months were spent working it all out. (I wonder if anyone has an archive of the old curb forum.) Whenever anyone asked when the sandbox would be up, they'd say they were working on the alpha code and it would be "soon". Never happened. In the end, they said thanks for all the hard work, ignored it all, and implemented the CU.
I remember the polls from the CU beta. Every day, the result was universal suckage. They implemented it anyway. While I can't document it, one dev when asked why they didn't pay attention to the polls stated that they were so universally negative they were dismissed as invalid.
Well, the CU did suck. It played as slow as thick mud. We told them it was too slow in beta, they "fixed" it by increasing the amout of xp per kill and had no concept this wouldn't make the game any faster. Not even a year later they said they had to change it again because the game was too slow and not starwarsy enough... lol.
The CU trashed the game. SWG failed not because it was a bad system, but there was a game system with no game, in other words no content. Many of us played regardless because the system was unique and totally open, one could do anything they wanted.
As for apologies, in order to be accepted they need to be sincere and an attempt at restitution needs to be made. I have seen neither.
This, I remember well. Each correspondent selected 5 people who knew the profession under the premise that changes would be worked out, then implemented and tested in a sanbox test server. Months were spent working it all out. (I wonder if anyone has an archive of the old curb forum.) Whenever anyone asked when the sandbox would be up, they'd say they were working on the alpha code and it would be "soon". Never happened. In the end, they said thanks for all the hard work, ignored it all, and implemented the CU.
I remember the polls from the CU beta. Every day, the result was universal suckage. They implemented it anyway. While I can't document it, one dev when asked why they didn't pay attention to the polls stated that they were so universally negative they were dismissed as invalid.
Well, the CU did suck. It played as slow as thick mud. We told them it was too slow in beta, they "fixed" it by increasing the amout of xp per kill and had no concept this wouldn't make the game any faster. Not even a year later they said they had to change it again because the game was too slow and not starwarsy enough... lol.
The CU trashed the game. SWG failed not because it was a bad system, but there was a game system with no game, in other words no content. Many of us played regardless because the system was unique and totally open, one could do anything they wanted.
As for apologies, in order to be accepted they need to be sincere and an attempt at restitution needs to be made. I have seen neither.
I was one of the five marksman testers for the CURB. We never got to actually playtest anything...all we ever got was an advance look at some of the design concept documents, and a forum to discuss them on.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Wow, now thats something I didn't know. I thought there had been some playtesting involved.
Wouldn't happen to have any of those design concept documents still, would you? I would love to put them up in our file archives.
Wow, now thats something I didn't know. I thought there had been some playtesting involved.
Wouldn't happen to have any of those design concept documents still, would you? I would love to put them up in our file archives.
Alas, if I have them still, they're only in hardcopy form, with no means to redigitize them.
They did eventually release most of them, but some of the earliest versions, from right after JTL went live, talked about retaining the HAM, but making it so that you had to drain down all three pools to incap a player. Going down to zero mind or action would basically kill your ablity to spam specials, or in the case of healers, heal. Which would have addressed the issue of the "unhealable pool" being everyone's achilles heel and giving CMs, riflemen, and the heavy swords a decisive advantage in PvP.
Of course, the effect of such a change would have prolonged combat, not sped it up, and Lucas Arts wasn't happy with the fact that combat took so long. Never mind that one shot kills are pretty unfun if you're on the receiving end.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Well, thanks for the info, though. May try and scour the web for the documents. Never really had the chance to see all of what they proposed. Would have been interesting to see how it all would have played out had they stuck with it.
And you are right One Shot Kills FTL.
[Discussing the fate of the PreCu Codes]
Smedley: We have top men working on it now.
Jestor: Who?
Smedley: Top... men.
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
the CURB documents were included in biophilia's scrapbook (version 5.1)
LOL! Love That Jest0r !!!1111ONEONE!!!!!ELEVEN!!!!!
By the way, is the next Rodo Report going to comment on the Rubenfeld Blog?
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Wow, now thats something I didn't know. I thought there had been some playtesting involved.
Wouldn't happen to have any of those design concept documents still, would you? I would love to put them up in our file archives.
the CURB documents were included in biophilia's scrapbook (version 5.1)
Many thanks. Will go pay a visit to the community's unsung hero and his wonderful archive.