Fact is girls do this in a daily basis and no one judges. But when a guy does it it's suddenly "unethical". That's a kite that doesn't fly.
That is incorrect as well. When girls do this it is just as bad. I don't understand why you think that it is not. There are many girl con artists as well, and they burn bridges just as well as the guys do. There are women prisoners that are in rehabilitation as well, and being taught that it is not okay to harm anyone. Being a girl does not excuse this behavior, and regardless of the OP's gender it is the con artist mentality that is the real issue here.
So...you can play a Troll...Elf...Tauren...Orc...Demon...and kill Boar-men...Bear-men...Dragon kin...etc...in a world with magic and talking animals....camp-kill...farm-whore...price-gouge at the AH....and otherwise rape the economy...but ..if your a guy...who plays a girl toon...and exploits that..to any degree...create back story..justify it to yourself and attempt to achieve the same in others' eyes...in other words..roleplay, For the gain of virtual wealth...gold or other...and it becomes a psychological and/or ethical issue? I don't agree. And the "emotional" damage it may cause?..come-on...If someone is affected that much...so much that the effect is "damaging" to the psyche...then the victim here was far gone..long before their virtual "romance" began. In PnP RPGs cons and deceit were common place for many characters...since this is mmoRPG...I don't see the concern. The key here is RPG...role-playing game..whether you role-play sugar and spice...or things not so nice.....if it extends to out of pocket real money...then I may voice concern. The victim is no less of a gullible..naive...ass...but that would be too far. As long as it is within game though...then business as usual.
In my opinion, taking advantage of someone, regardless of whether they're a male or female is unethical. The fact that you (or anyone for that matter) are deceiving someone out of pure greed for items or what ever it is you're after is pretty low in itself.
Also, from what I've seen in the past, it's usually children and lonely teenagers that actually are lured into giving up things to a supposed "hot chick", not to mention being enticed by "dirty talk" . So that in itself is pretty weird.
Fact is girls do this in a daily basis and no one judges. But when a guy does it it's suddenly "unethical". That's a kite that doesn't fly.
That is incorrect as well. When girls do this it is just as bad. I don't understand why you think that it is not. There are many girl con artists as well, and they burn bridges just as well as the guys do. There are women prisoners that are in rehabilitation as well, and being taught that it is not okay to harm anyone. Being a girl does not excuse this behavior, and regardless of the OP's gender it is the con artist mentality that is the real issue here.
All the man is trying to do is accomplish a goal. He is trying to complete a mission. What's so bad with attaining wealth in a creative fashion? What do you have with creativity? Why are you so against thinking outside of the box?
Fact is girls do this in a daily basis and no one judges. But when a guy does it it's suddenly "unethical". That's a kite that doesn't fly.
That is incorrect as well. When girls do this it is just as bad. I don't understand why you think that it is not. There are many girl con artists as well, and they burn bridges just as well as the guys do. There are women prisoners that are in rehabilitation as well, and being taught that it is not okay to harm anyone. Being a girl does not excuse this behavior, and regardless of the OP's gender it is the con artist mentality that is the real issue here.
I don't say it's not bad when girls do this. But this isn't some small % of girls with "social problems" who use the fact that they are a girl to their fullest advantage.
What do you suggest? All of the girls who do this have no psychological difficulties but they use this because they simply can.
It's something that wasn't widely known by guys because unlike the OP, females do not talk about this or sometimes don't even realise they are doing it.
You can not compare this to a condition because it simply isn't. It's a problem of society where it's acceptable for girls to take advantage of guys without being judged for it.
The only thing the OP does is copy female behavior and plays his role well in MMO's.
Like the topic says I play a girl toon in the mmo's I play,and , i;m a guy. I know i;m not the only one that does this, but the level I take it to makes me wonder if I need to have my head examined. You see not only do I present the persona of a female player in cyberspace but I make my companions believe that im also a chick in the "real" world. I have stories that begin with my childhood all the way to the present; complete with fake parents, schools, jobs ect. I even email photos of women I find online to make things even more believable. "None of those model photos for me, those aren't believable at all...I take them from other folks family galleries. Now you might ask...why. would you do such a thing? The simple answer, is greed. I hook lonely men into falling in love with me online so that they will buy me great items in game. Heck I even let them use my account to level me while im at work. I just do the fun things while im online..no grinding for me..my "boyfriends" do it for me. So I guess im wondering if i'm alone in these twisted endeavors; and is it really all that unethical that I do this? These guys think they are talking to a cute girl and derive great pleasure from doing so. Heck I even throw in a little dirty talk every once in a while.
Yes unfortunately from what I've been reading, your not alone in your self proclaimed,"twisted endeavours" and yes it is unethical with what your doing,
To role-play for the fun and enjoyment of it is perfectly honourable pass time, but to role-play for profit at someone else's expense by miss leading them to garner "free gifts" is fraud!
using some else's likeness and claiming it as yours, is identity theft!
also remember that in-game item's these days, quite often have a real world value, so technically what you are doing is also stealing!
So...you can play a Troll...Elf...Tauren...Orc...Demon...and kill Boar-men...Bear-men...Dragon kin...etc...in a world with magic and talking animals....camp-kill...farm-whore...price-gouge at the AH....and otherwise rape the economy...but ..if your a guy...who plays a girl toon...and exploits that..to any degree...create back story..justify it to yourself and attempt to achieve the same in others' eyes...in other words..roleplay, For the gain of virtual wealth...gold or other...and it becomes a psychological and/or ethical issue? I don't agree. And the "emotional" damage it may cause?..come-on...If someone is affected that much...so much that the effect is "damaging" to the psyche...then the victim here was far gone..long before their virtual "romance" began. In PnP RPGs cons and deceit were common place for many characters...since this is mmoRPG...I don't see the concern. The key here is RPG...role-playing game..whether you role-play sugar and spice...or things not so nice.....if it extends to out of pocket real money...then I may voice concern. The victim is no less of a gullible..naive...ass...but that would be too far. As long as it is within game though...then business as usual.
When developers make an in game" shemale" character whose back story is a guy pretending to be a girl to scam guys out of their possessions, only then would it be appropriate to scam other players with those intentions. Just as it is not okay to play a "hacker " and hack players accounts, it should not be acceptable to play a "con artist" whose only purpose in the game to scam other players. That not only makes for poor community, it hurts the developers profits. One scam artist can scam thousands of people often resulting in thousands of people leaving their game and not paying monthly subs.
In my opinion, taking advantage of someone, regardless of whether they're a male or female is unethical. The fact that you (or anyone for that matter) are deceiving someone out of pure greed for items or what ever it is you're after is pretty low in itself. Also, from what I've seen in the past, it's usually children and lonely teenagers that actually are lured into giving up things to a supposed "hot chick", not to mention being enticed by "dirty talk" . So that in itself is pretty weird.
Not only that, but the deception is being perpetrated for virtual items.
I'm male, and have some female avatars. It's interesting how some (very obviously) adolescent males treat someone they think is female.
I do know that a friend of mine with a scantily clad female avatar sold pets in pre CU SWG at higher rates than I did in front of the Coronet starport, so there's something to the notion that female avatars have advantages.
Why there aren't more used car sale bunnies in bikinis distracting men into buying lemons I don't quite know.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
I don't buy that it is mostly younger boys affected by this kind of activity....Many surveys indicate that teenagers are not the majority in mmo's ..approx 25% are teenagers.a good percentage work full-time ..are married or married with kids of their own..(one such survey) www.nickyee.com/daedalus/gateway_demographics.html......I'm guessing here(yes ..purely opinion)..but chances are that the majority of victims are probably older...25-40 married men..trying to add some cybering fun to life's repetitous grind. Men who could just as easily attempt to reach out to their own wives...even if it involves ..Gasp..not playing an mmo for a bit.
I don't say it's not bad when girls do this. But this isn't some small % of girls with "social problems" who use the fact that they are a girl to their fullest advantage. What do you suggest? All of the girls who do this have no psychological difficulties but they use this because they simply can. It's something that wasn't widely known by guys because unlike the OP, females do not talk about this or sometimes don't even realise they are doing it. You can not compare this to a condition because it simply isn't. It's a problem of society where it's acceptable for girls to take advantage of guys without being judged for it. The only thing the OP does is copy female behavior and plays his role well in MMO's.
Female con artists need counseling as well. There is a difference in conning someone and truely having relationship intentions and something does not work out. Yes in females that is harder to determine, because regardless of gender people lie. With the guys it is more noticeable because they lied about their gender, thus openly stating that they never had relationship intentions in the first place.
Fact is girls do this in a daily basis and no one judges. But when a guy does it it's suddenly "unethical". That's a kite that doesn't fly.
That is incorrect as well. When girls do this it is just as bad. I don't understand why you think that it is not. There are many girl con artists as well, and they burn bridges just as well as the guys do. There are women prisoners that are in rehabilitation as well, and being taught that it is not okay to harm anyone. Being a girl does not excuse this behavior, and regardless of the OP's gender it is the con artist mentality that is the real issue here.
All the man is trying to do is accomplish a goal. He is trying to complete a mission. What's so bad with attaining wealth in a creative fashion? What do you have with creativity? Why are you so against thinking outside of the box?
The Troll
so if in real life someone conned you, that would be alright since they are thinking outside the box and are being creative?
And before you say its just a game...well...the time spent in game costs money and time in real life. Someone could have spent many hours earning those items and gold in the game...that is a lot of time wasted. And dating online is a lot more common than it used to be, which is why dating sites are doing so good (not that I go to them )...no its not the same as in real life, but the feelings are still the same. I've heard many stories where a female meets her online boyfriend in real life and then they get married. I even know someone in WoW that met her boyfriend in the game and is now living with him.
The person being conned has a choice. He can either accept the love and affection the con artist is giving him. Or he can leave. The fact that the person stays and showers the con artists with flowers and gifts shows that the person being conned is being entertained. Ronald McDonald and his other friends does the same thing. He, Wendy and the rest of the gang try to con you into buying their food, and over the years they have been successful. And over the years they have caused grave sufferings to millions of people. Sure the food is good but the food is BAD for you. It is not healthy, yet we choose to eat their food because their food is entertaining, just like a con artist in game, just like the orginial poster.
I think you also need to make the difference between people who play females for attention and others to exploit it.
I have 0 problem with people who pretend to be females for more attention.
When people exploit it for money there is a problem, but that's not just an MMO problem, that more a problem of society where girls aren't really judged when they play with feelings of guys like guys would be.
Because a guy has to be "tough" and can's show emotions. Sadly some girls take advantage of that knowing there are very few consequences to their behavior.
I have heard a few say that I am absolutely terrible for taking advantage of people like this, so I must ask this question. Who is really more sick here, me or the pathetic fool on the other end of the line? These guys drool when I take my pixel shirt off....grow horny at the mere thought that I might expose my elven underside "tho still clothed in starter gear" to their hungry eyes.
Of course most of these guys do attempt to make some kind of effort to find out my true identity, such as myspace "have a fake account" and ventrilo "speakers always broke, or no mike". And at the mention that my speakers are broke or I need a mike..do you know what they do? They offer to buy me one; or if I say " Babe im runnin low on game time and times have been rough here lately" the offer to buy me cards and send em. So as I always use my exwife's name for these nuts to ship to, it seems to be a woman on the receiving end
So after thinking about all the gifts and offers of plane tickets to come and meet these lonely souls; I wonder who is really sick here. What if I did accept the invitation to come meet one of these gents. What would I find when I got there? When I take part in these exploits I believe I am plying my trade withing the underbelly of the mmo world; and if a few lonely, heartbroke, skeleton of a man, types get decieved.........they were probably just as screwy...or normal as I am.
I have heard a few say that I am absolutely terrible for taking advantage of people like this, so I must ask this question. Who is really more sick here, me or the pathetic fool on the other end of the line? These guys drool when I take my pixel shirt off....grow horny at the mere thought that I might expose my elven underside "tho still clothed in starter gear" to their hungry eyes. Of course most of these guys do attempt to make some kind of effort to find out my true identity, such as myspace "have a fake account" and ventrilo "speakers always broke, or no mike". And at the mention that my speakers are broke or I need a mike..do you know what they do? They offer to buy me one; or if I say " Babe im runnin low on game time and times have been rough here lately" the offer to buy me cards and send em. So as I always use my exwife's name for these nuts to ship to, it seems to be a woman on the receiving end So after thinking about all the gifts and offers of plane tickets to come and meet these lonely souls; I wonder who is really sick here. What if I did accept the invitation to come meet one of these gents. What would I find when I got there? When I take part in these exploits I believe I am plying my trade withing the underbelly of the mmo world; and if a few lonely, heartbroke, skeleton of a man, types get decieved.........they were probably just as screwy...or normal as I am.
I couldn't have said it better myself man, you nailed it right on the head.
I have heard a few say that I am absolutely terrible for taking advantage of people like this, so I must ask this question. Who is really more sick here, me or the pathetic fool on the other end of the line? These guys drool when I take my pixel shirt off....grow horny at the mere thought that I might expose my elven underside "tho still clothed in starter gear" to their hungry eyes. Of course most of these guys do attempt to make some kind of effort to find out my true identity, such as myspace "have a fake account" and ventrilo "speakers always broke, or no mike". And at the mention that my speakers are broke or I need a mike..do you know what they do? They offer to buy me one; or if I say " Babe im runnin low on game time and times have been rough here lately" the offer to buy me cards and send em. So as I always use my exwife's name for these nuts to ship to, it seems to be a woman on the receiving end So after thinking about all the gifts and offers of plane tickets to come and meet these lonely souls; I wonder who is really sick here. What if I did accept the invitation to come meet one of these gents. What would I find when I got there? When I take part in these exploits I believe I am plying my trade withing the underbelly of the mmo world; and if a few lonely, heartbroke, skeleton of a man, types get decieved.........they were probably just as screwy...or normal as I am.
You're an asshole for taking advantage of lonely men. We all know the gaming industry and those who are hobbyists of said industry aren't the most socially adept people. So, meeting females online is one such avenue for these people to meet those of the opposite sex. Just because they appear desperate does not give you the god damn right to manipulate and screw people over. Of course, some males who "hit" on you deserve it...but what about the nice lonely bloke who just wants to talk to someone from the opposite sex? You have no right to be a dick just because the Internet gives you anonymity. Coward.
I have heard a few say that I am absolutely terrible for taking advantage of people like this, so I must ask this question. Who is really more sick here, me or the pathetic fool on the other end of the line? These guys drool when I take my pixel shirt off....grow horny at the mere thought that I might expose my elven underside "tho still clothed in starter gear" to their hungry eyes. Of course most of these guys do attempt to make some kind of effort to find out my true identity, such as myspace "have a fake account" and ventrilo "speakers always broke, or no mike". And at the mention that my speakers are broke or I need a mike..do you know what they do? They offer to buy me one; or if I say " Babe im runnin low on game time and times have been rough here lately" the offer to buy me cards and send em. So as I always use my exwife's name for these nuts to ship to, it seems to be a woman on the receiving end So after thinking about all the gifts and offers of plane tickets to come and meet these lonely souls; I wonder who is really sick here. What if I did accept the invitation to come meet one of these gents. What would I find when I got there? When I take part in these exploits I believe I am plying my trade withing the underbelly of the mmo world; and if a few lonely, heartbroke, skeleton of a man, types get decieved.........they were probably just as screwy...or normal as I am.
Ok, I don't believe all you do is correct now.
I have to make a distinction here.
I have no problems if guys play girls to get ahead in a game, god knows girls do it too, both in RL and games. Even getting affection from said person isn't really wrong I believe.
But gaining financially from this like them buying you game cards isn't right though. That's not good.
I think you also need to make the difference between people who play females for attention and others to exploit it. I have 0 problem with people who pretend to be females for more attention. When people exploit it for money there is a problem, but that's not just an MMO problem, that more a problem of society where girls aren't really judged when they play with feelings of guys like guys would be.
I have had guy friends that played female toons not for attention, not to con anyone into thinking they were a girl, but because they wanted to look at a girl avatar. Guys playing girls as long as they are honest when it comes to relationship intentions I have no issue with. I also do not think it is okay for girls to play with guys emotions as well. If they have no intentions with a person, they should state that upfront. If they do not share a guys affection they should let the guy know immediately. They should not accept gifts or mislead them because this can cause the guy emotional harm. It is the deceitful act in itself that is the issue, because it does cause others harm. If your actions do not harm anyone I do not see a problem with it.
So...you can play a Troll...Elf...Tauren...Orc...Demon...and kill Boar-men...Bear-men...Dragon kin...etc...in a world with magic and talking animals....camp-kill...farm-whore...price-gouge at the AH....and otherwise rape the economy...but ..if your a guy...who plays a girl toon...and exploits that..to any degree...create back story..justify it to yourself and attempt to achieve the same in others' eyes...in other words..roleplay, For the gain of virtual wealth...gold or other...and it becomes a psychological and/or ethical issue? I don't agree. And the "emotional" damage it may cause?..come-on...If someone is affected that much...so much that the effect is "damaging" to the psyche...then the victim here was far gone..long before their virtual "romance" began. In PnP RPGs cons and deceit were common place for many characters...since this is mmoRPG...I don't see the concern. The key here is RPG...role-playing game..whether you role-play sugar and spice...or things not so nice.....if it extends to out of pocket real money...then I may voice concern. The victim is no less of a gullible..naive...ass...but that would be too far. As long as it is within game though...then business as usual.
When developers make an in game" shemale" character whose back story is a guy pretending to be a girl to scam guys out of their possessions, only then would it be appropriate to scam other players with those intentions. Just as it is not okay to play a "hacker " and hack players accounts, it should not be acceptable to play a "con artist" whose only purpose in the game to scam other players. That not only makes for poor community, it hurts the developers profits. One scam artist can scam thousands of people often resulting in thousands of people leaving their game and not paying monthly subs.
Good reply...I play rpgs...sometimes I play "good guys" sometimes "bad guys"..sometimes in-between...I try to be a good person in RL. But most of the time I am somewhere between.. I would never con someone in real life...that is unethical. Rpg's allow me to portray characters that would do what I would never do in reality. as I said..if this extends to real money / gifts..then it is wrong...but this is virtual tender..gold..items..time....its like pulling a con on someone to steal air. I haven't done this...but i see where others might. About how it affects the Community...as far as I know Utopias do not exist...virtually or other wise and although suicide is a serious matter..I mention it here only to say that I don't see people in RL offing themselves by the 100's of thousands at a time..they still stride onward in this far from ideal reality..believeing what their government tells them...being conned far worse than any horny lonely blood elf.(i digress).....the community carries on. The mmo microcosm seems the same. ..especially WOW...at least til a better one comes along..one that gains the population wow has achieved....really...must we tip toe around every issue...especially over intangibles.
I have heard a few say that I am absolutely terrible for taking advantage of people like this, so I must ask this question. Who is really more sick here, me or the pathetic fool on the other end of the line? These guys drool when I take my pixel shirt off....grow horny at the mere thought that I might expose my elven underside "tho still clothed in starter gear" to their hungry eyes. Of course most of these guys do attempt to make some kind of effort to find out my true identity, such as myspace "have a fake account" and ventrilo "speakers always broke, or no mike". And at the mention that my speakers are broke or I need a mike..do you know what they do? They offer to buy me one; or if I say " Babe im runnin low on game time and times have been rough here lately" the offer to buy me cards and send em. So as I always use my exwife's name for these nuts to ship to, it seems to be a woman on the receiving end So after thinking about all the gifts and offers of plane tickets to come and meet these lonely souls; I wonder who is really sick here. What if I did accept the invitation to come meet one of these gents. What would I find when I got there? When I take part in these exploits I believe I am plying my trade withing the underbelly of the mmo world; and if a few lonely, heartbroke, skeleton of a man, types get decieved.........they were probably just as screwy...or normal as I am.
You're an asshole for taking advantage of lonely men. We all know the gaming industry and those who are hobbyists of said industry aren't the most socially adept people. So, meeting females online is one such avenue for these people to meet those of the opposite sex. Just because they appear desperate does not give you the god damn right to manipulate and screw people over. Of course, some males who "hit" on you deserve it...but what about the nice lonely bloke who just wants to talk to someone from the opposite sex? You have no right to be a dick just because the Internet gives you anonymity. Coward.
Borkotron, I think in this case it is you who is being the asshole. It is you who is being a dick. If grown men choose to fall for Damonds tricks and ways, than it is the fault of the user being conned. Damond is not at fault here. He is no different than big corporations who manipulate the little people to get what they want.
Originally posted by deviliscious I have had guy friends that played female toons not for attention, not to con anyone into thinking they were a girl, but because they wanted to look at a girl avatar. Guys playing girls as long as they are honest when it comes to relationship intentions I have no issue with. I also do not think it is okay for girls to play with guys emotions as well. If they have no intentions with a person, they should state that upfront. If they do not share a guys affection they should let the guy know immediately. They should not accept gifts or mislead them because this can cause the guy emotional harm. It is the deceitful act in itself that is the issue, because it does cause others harm. If your actions do not harm anyone I do not see a problem with it.
I never saw wrong in the OP until I read he gains from it financially and doesn't seemingly care about the other party's feelings.
Getting attention, affection by roleplaying a girl in a game or through channels isn't really wrong I think. It's not that different from using an avatar or attractive clothing in game while the person isn't like that in RL sometimes.
But gaining from this financially or not caring when the other person would get really hurt is wrong though.
Fact is girls do this in a daily basis and no one judges. But when a guy does it it's suddenly "unethical". That's a kite that doesn't fly.
That is incorrect as well. When girls do this it is just as bad. I don't understand why you think that it is not. There are many girl con artists as well, and they burn bridges just as well as the guys do. There are women prisoners that are in rehabilitation as well, and being taught that it is not okay to harm anyone. Being a girl does not excuse this behavior, and regardless of the OP's gender it is the con artist mentality that is the real issue here.
I don't say it's not bad when girls do this. But this isn't some small % of girls with "social problems" who use the fact that they are a girl to their fullest advantage.
What do you suggest? All of the girls who do this have no psychological difficulties but they use this because they simply can.
It's something that wasn't widely known by guys because unlike the OP, females do not talk about this or sometimes don't even realise they are doing it.
You can not compare this to a condition because it simply isn't. It's a problem of society where it's acceptable for girls to take advantage of guys without being judged for it.
The only thing the OP does is copy female behavior and plays his role well in MMO's.
I won't go too deeply into this, but, our ancestors, when they began to become civilised and form stronger, larger social groups they realised that many of the old behaviors such as forceful taking of mates or murdering one another over them was not good for the health of the social units. There are too many grudges, protective families, and fearful responses promoting disorder so we had to develop more cultured and less violent ways of aquiring mates, and coexisting.
Males were typically the hunter/gathers and providers as well as the fact they could protect the females, females realised this and understood that males would compete for them and that they could be very selective based on what could be offered. Gifts and offerings made to impress were of course aquired even without selecting mates so a lengthy, selective consideration could sometimes have been beneficial to the females.
Long story short, over thousands of years women have developed these behaviors and they have become inherent traits, and the idea of the 'modern liberated woman' encouraged and enabled the behavior not only to be often overlooked or forgiven but encouraged as 'independent' or 'liberated'. I'm not whining or complaining here, for the people that have brought up women into the discussion, on a basic level they cannot often help or be aware of this, though it does not in any way excuse the extreme manipulators or con artists, but men exacerbate and encourage this by continuing to be retarded when it comes to impressing or wooing women. The behaviors that men evolved.
If some would act more like men and not be so stupid, they may actually find they can impress women in other ways and actually get some respect and real attention rather than being a good laugh during girl talk later at what great stuff some moron just gave or did for some woman. I'm sure most guys will remember many times when they've continually flattered a female and repeatedly assisted them and offered them help or to buy things for them, only to find they began giving themselves to some 'undeserving' jerk. Jerk or not, they probably acted like a man and not pathetic and needy, as most of the online males that feed into this are, and deserved the woman regardless.
I admit I do find it pleasing that men are able to play this game as well, but in all honesty it's the men's fault for creating the opportunity, not the guy's that posted this. It is a dog-eat-dog world. I've never played a game this way although i have had one female character, and was offered all sorts of assistance without solicitation that I was consistently denied on my male characters quite frequently, I suppose just to spend more time with my character. After openly saying "I'm a dude, I just made this chick because I wanted to use the name" all of a sudden people became busy though their night was free just earlier, lol, even though I thought we had became buds in the groups I'd met them in(I never said anything remotely sexual, and detered those comments because obviously that's gross, I just made normal grind chitchats as I do on all my characters).
Moral of the story:
Stop being desperate losers and you won't get taken advantage of by either gender.
Just Play The Game
(n_-)b
"Farewell remorse, all good to me is gone.. Evil, be Thou my Good."
Comments
Fact is girls do this on a daily basis and no one judges.
But when a guy does it it's suddenly "unethical" and he has "a social disorder". That's a kite that doesn't fly.
A lot of girls have social disorders then because the only thing he's doing is copying female behavior.
Ditto. As a girl, I hope your account got hacked/stolen since you like to give your login info..... Then again I guess OP has stopped... Meh.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
That is incorrect as well. When girls do this it is just as bad. I don't understand why you think that it is not. There are many girl con artists as well, and they burn bridges just as well as the guys do. There are women prisoners that are in rehabilitation as well, and being taught that it is not okay to harm anyone. Being a girl does not excuse this behavior, and regardless of the OP's gender it is the con artist mentality that is the real issue here.
So...you can play a Troll...Elf...Tauren...Orc...Demon...and kill Boar-men...Bear-men...Dragon kin...etc...in a world with magic and talking animals....camp-kill...farm-whore...price-gouge at the AH....and otherwise rape the economy...but ..if your a guy...who plays a girl toon...and exploits that..to any degree...create back story..justify it to yourself and attempt to achieve the same in others' eyes...in other words..roleplay, For the gain of virtual wealth...gold or other...and it becomes a psychological and/or ethical issue? I don't agree. And the "emotional" damage it may cause?..come-on...If someone is affected that much...so much that the effect is "damaging" to the psyche...then the victim here was far gone..long before their virtual "romance" began. In PnP RPGs cons and deceit were common place for many characters...since this is mmoRPG...I don't see the concern. The key here is RPG...role-playing game..whether you role-play sugar and spice...or things not so nice.....if it extends to out of pocket real money...then I may voice concern. The victim is no less of a gullible..naive...ass...but that would be too far. As long as it is within game though...then business as usual.
In my opinion, taking advantage of someone, regardless of whether they're a male or female is unethical. The fact that you (or anyone for that matter) are deceiving someone out of pure greed for items or what ever it is you're after is pretty low in itself.
Also, from what I've seen in the past, it's usually children and lonely teenagers that actually are lured into giving up things to a supposed "hot chick", not to mention being enticed by "dirty talk" . So that in itself is pretty weird.
That is incorrect as well. When girls do this it is just as bad. I don't understand why you think that it is not. There are many girl con artists as well, and they burn bridges just as well as the guys do. There are women prisoners that are in rehabilitation as well, and being taught that it is not okay to harm anyone. Being a girl does not excuse this behavior, and regardless of the OP's gender it is the con artist mentality that is the real issue here.
All the man is trying to do is accomplish a goal. He is trying to complete a mission. What's so bad with attaining wealth in a creative fashion? What do you have with creativity? Why are you so against thinking outside of the box?
The Troll
That is incorrect as well. When girls do this it is just as bad. I don't understand why you think that it is not. There are many girl con artists as well, and they burn bridges just as well as the guys do. There are women prisoners that are in rehabilitation as well, and being taught that it is not okay to harm anyone. Being a girl does not excuse this behavior, and regardless of the OP's gender it is the con artist mentality that is the real issue here.
I don't say it's not bad when girls do this. But this isn't some small % of girls with "social problems" who use the fact that they are a girl to their fullest advantage.
What do you suggest? All of the girls who do this have no psychological difficulties but they use this because they simply can.
It's something that wasn't widely known by guys because unlike the OP, females do not talk about this or sometimes don't even realise they are doing it.
You can not compare this to a condition because it simply isn't. It's a problem of society where it's acceptable for girls to take advantage of guys without being judged for it.
The only thing the OP does is copy female behavior and plays his role well in MMO's.
Yes unfortunately from what I've been reading, your not alone in your self proclaimed,"twisted endeavours" and yes it is unethical with what your doing,
To role-play for the fun and enjoyment of it is perfectly honourable pass time, but to role-play for profit at someone else's expense by miss leading them to garner "free gifts" is fraud!
using some else's likeness and claiming it as yours, is identity theft!
also remember that in-game item's these days, quite often have a real world value, so technically what you are doing is also stealing!
When developers make an in game" shemale" character whose back story is a guy pretending to be a girl to scam guys out of their possessions, only then would it be appropriate to scam other players with those intentions. Just as it is not okay to play a "hacker " and hack players accounts, it should not be acceptable to play a "con artist" whose only purpose in the game to scam other players. That not only makes for poor community, it hurts the developers profits. One scam artist can scam thousands of people often resulting in thousands of people leaving their game and not paying monthly subs.
Not only that, but the deception is being perpetrated for virtual items.
I'm male, and have some female avatars. It's interesting how some (very obviously) adolescent males treat someone they think is female.
I do know that a friend of mine with a scantily clad female avatar sold pets in pre CU SWG at higher rates than I did in front of the Coronet starport, so there's something to the notion that female avatars have advantages.
Why there aren't more used car sale bunnies in bikinis distracting men into buying lemons I don't quite know.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
You are lying. Thaths unethical.
You use someone elses' picture without permision. This i also unethical.
How can you have any doubt?
Almost every avatar on this thread is violating copyrights. Is that ethical?
It's not that black and white like you pretend it to be.
I don't buy that it is mostly younger boys affected by this kind of activity....Many surveys indicate that teenagers are not the majority in mmo's ..approx 25% are teenagers.a good percentage work full-time ..are married or married with kids of their own..(one such survey) www.nickyee.com/daedalus/gateway_demographics.html......I'm guessing here(yes ..purely opinion)..but chances are that the majority of victims are probably older...25-40 married men..trying to add some cybering fun to life's repetitous grind. Men who could just as easily attempt to reach out to their own wives...even if it involves ..Gasp..not playing an mmo for a bit.
Female con artists need counseling as well. There is a difference in conning someone and truely having relationship intentions and something does not work out. Yes in females that is harder to determine, because regardless of gender people lie. With the guys it is more noticeable because they lied about their gender, thus openly stating that they never had relationship intentions in the first place.
That is incorrect as well. When girls do this it is just as bad. I don't understand why you think that it is not. There are many girl con artists as well, and they burn bridges just as well as the guys do. There are women prisoners that are in rehabilitation as well, and being taught that it is not okay to harm anyone. Being a girl does not excuse this behavior, and regardless of the OP's gender it is the con artist mentality that is the real issue here.
All the man is trying to do is accomplish a goal. He is trying to complete a mission. What's so bad with attaining wealth in a creative fashion? What do you have with creativity? Why are you so against thinking outside of the box?
The Troll
so if in real life someone conned you, that would be alright since they are thinking outside the box and are being creative?
)...no its not the same as in real life, but the feelings are still the same. I've heard many stories where a female meets her online boyfriend in real life and then they get married. I even know someone in WoW that met her boyfriend in the game and is now living with him.
And before you say its just a game...well...the time spent in game costs money and time in real life. Someone could have spent many hours earning those items and gold in the game...that is a lot of time wasted. And dating online is a lot more common than it used to be, which is why dating sites are doing so good (not that I go to them
The person being conned has a choice. He can either accept the love and affection the con artist is giving him. Or he can leave. The fact that the person stays and showers the con artists with flowers and gifts shows that the person being conned is being entertained. Ronald McDonald and his other friends does the same thing. He, Wendy and the rest of the gang try to con you into buying their food, and over the years they have been successful. And over the years they have caused grave sufferings to millions of people. Sure the food is good but the food is BAD for you. It is not healthy, yet we choose to eat their food because their food is entertaining, just like a con artist in game, just like the orginial poster.
The Troll
I think you also need to make the difference between people who play females for attention and others to exploit it.
I have 0 problem with people who pretend to be females for more attention.
When people exploit it for money there is a problem, but that's not just an MMO problem, that more a problem of society where girls aren't really judged when they play with feelings of guys like guys would be.
Because a guy has to be "tough" and can's show emotions. Sadly some girls take advantage of that knowing there are very few consequences to their behavior.
The OP is just copying this behavior.
I have heard a few say that I am absolutely terrible for taking advantage of people like this, so I must ask this question. Who is really more sick here, me or the pathetic fool on the other end of the line? These guys drool when I take my pixel shirt off....grow horny at the mere thought that I might expose my elven underside "tho still clothed in starter gear" to their hungry eyes.
Of course most of these guys do attempt to make some kind of effort to find out my true identity, such as myspace "have a fake account" and ventrilo "speakers always broke, or no mike". And at the mention that my speakers are broke or I need a mike..do you know what they do? They offer to buy me one; or if I say " Babe im runnin low on game time and times have been rough here lately" the offer to buy me cards and send em. So as I always use my exwife's name for these nuts to ship to, it seems to be a woman on the receiving end
So after thinking about all the gifts and offers of plane tickets to come and meet these lonely souls; I wonder who is really sick here. What if I did accept the invitation to come meet one of these gents. What would I find when I got there? When I take part in these exploits I believe I am plying my trade withing the underbelly of the mmo world; and if a few lonely, heartbroke, skeleton of a man, types get decieved.........they were probably just as screwy...or normal as I am.
I couldn't have said it better myself man, you nailed it right on the head.
The Troll
You're an asshole for taking advantage of lonely men. We all know the gaming industry and those who are hobbyists of said industry aren't the most socially adept people. So, meeting females online is one such avenue for these people to meet those of the opposite sex. Just because they appear desperate does not give you the god damn right to manipulate and screw people over. Of course, some males who "hit" on you deserve it...but what about the nice lonely bloke who just wants to talk to someone from the opposite sex? You have no right to be a dick just because the Internet gives you anonymity. Coward.
Ok, I don't believe all you do is correct now.
I have to make a distinction here.
I have no problems if guys play girls to get ahead in a game, god knows girls do it too, both in RL and games. Even getting affection from said person isn't really wrong I believe.
But gaining financially from this like them buying you game cards isn't right though. That's not good.
I have had guy friends that played female toons not for attention, not to con anyone into thinking they were a girl, but because they wanted to look at a girl avatar. Guys playing girls as long as they are honest when it comes to relationship intentions I have no issue with. I also do not think it is okay for girls to play with guys emotions as well. If they have no intentions with a person, they should state that upfront. If they do not share a guys affection they should let the guy know immediately. They should not accept gifts or mislead them because this can cause the guy emotional harm. It is the deceitful act in itself that is the issue, because it does cause others harm. If your actions do not harm anyone I do not see a problem with it.
When developers make an in game" shemale" character whose back story is a guy pretending to be a girl to scam guys out of their possessions, only then would it be appropriate to scam other players with those intentions. Just as it is not okay to play a "hacker " and hack players accounts, it should not be acceptable to play a "con artist" whose only purpose in the game to scam other players. That not only makes for poor community, it hurts the developers profits. One scam artist can scam thousands of people often resulting in thousands of people leaving their game and not paying monthly subs.
Good reply...I play rpgs...sometimes I play "good guys" sometimes "bad guys"..sometimes in-between...I try to be a good person in RL. But most of the time I am somewhere between.. I would never con someone in real life...that is unethical. Rpg's allow me to portray characters that would do what I would never do in reality. as I said..if this extends to real money / gifts..then it is wrong...but this is virtual tender..gold..items..time....its like pulling a con on someone to steal air. I haven't done this...but i see where others might. About how it affects the Community...as far as I know Utopias do not exist...virtually or other wise and although suicide is a serious matter..I mention it here only to say that I don't see people in RL offing themselves by the 100's of thousands at a time..they still stride onward in this far from ideal reality..believeing what their government tells them...being conned far worse than any horny lonely blood elf.(i digress).....the community carries on. The mmo microcosm seems the same. ..especially WOW...at least til a better one comes along..one that gains the population wow has achieved....really...must we tip toe around every issue...especially over intangibles.
You're an asshole for taking advantage of lonely men. We all know the gaming industry and those who are hobbyists of said industry aren't the most socially adept people. So, meeting females online is one such avenue for these people to meet those of the opposite sex. Just because they appear desperate does not give you the god damn right to manipulate and screw people over. Of course, some males who "hit" on you deserve it...but what about the nice lonely bloke who just wants to talk to someone from the opposite sex? You have no right to be a dick just because the Internet gives you anonymity. Coward.
Borkotron, I think in this case it is you who is being the asshole. It is you who is being a dick. If grown men choose to fall for Damonds tricks and ways, than it is the fault of the user being conned. Damond is not at fault here. He is no different than big corporations who manipulate the little people to get what they want.
The TROLL
I never saw wrong in the OP until I read he gains from it financially and doesn't seemingly care about the other party's feelings.
Getting attention, affection by roleplaying a girl in a game or through channels isn't really wrong I think. It's not that different from using an avatar or attractive clothing in game while the person isn't like that in RL sometimes.
But gaining from this financially or not caring when the other person would get really hurt is wrong though.
That is incorrect as well. When girls do this it is just as bad. I don't understand why you think that it is not. There are many girl con artists as well, and they burn bridges just as well as the guys do. There are women prisoners that are in rehabilitation as well, and being taught that it is not okay to harm anyone. Being a girl does not excuse this behavior, and regardless of the OP's gender it is the con artist mentality that is the real issue here.
I don't say it's not bad when girls do this. But this isn't some small % of girls with "social problems" who use the fact that they are a girl to their fullest advantage.
What do you suggest? All of the girls who do this have no psychological difficulties but they use this because they simply can.
It's something that wasn't widely known by guys because unlike the OP, females do not talk about this or sometimes don't even realise they are doing it.
You can not compare this to a condition because it simply isn't. It's a problem of society where it's acceptable for girls to take advantage of guys without being judged for it.
The only thing the OP does is copy female behavior and plays his role well in MMO's.
I won't go too deeply into this, but, our ancestors, when they began to become civilised and form stronger, larger social groups they realised that many of the old behaviors such as forceful taking of mates or murdering one another over them was not good for the health of the social units. There are too many grudges, protective families, and fearful responses promoting disorder so we had to develop more cultured and less violent ways of aquiring mates, and coexisting.
Males were typically the hunter/gathers and providers as well as the fact they could protect the females, females realised this and understood that males would compete for them and that they could be very selective based on what could be offered. Gifts and offerings made to impress were of course aquired even without selecting mates so a lengthy, selective consideration could sometimes have been beneficial to the females.
Long story short, over thousands of years women have developed these behaviors and they have become inherent traits, and the idea of the 'modern liberated woman' encouraged and enabled the behavior not only to be often overlooked or forgiven but encouraged as 'independent' or 'liberated'. I'm not whining or complaining here, for the people that have brought up women into the discussion, on a basic level they cannot often help or be aware of this, though it does not in any way excuse the extreme manipulators or con artists, but men exacerbate and encourage this by continuing to be retarded when it comes to impressing or wooing women. The behaviors that men evolved.
If some would act more like men and not be so stupid, they may actually find they can impress women in other ways and actually get some respect and real attention rather than being a good laugh during girl talk later at what great stuff some moron just gave or did for some woman. I'm sure most guys will remember many times when they've continually flattered a female and repeatedly assisted them and offered them help or to buy things for them, only to find they began giving themselves to some 'undeserving' jerk. Jerk or not, they probably acted like a man and not pathetic and needy, as most of the online males that feed into this are, and deserved the woman regardless.
I admit I do find it pleasing that men are able to play this game as well, but in all honesty it's the men's fault for creating the opportunity, not the guy's that posted this. It is a dog-eat-dog world. I've never played a game this way although i have had one female character, and was offered all sorts of assistance without solicitation that I was consistently denied on my male characters quite frequently, I suppose just to spend more time with my character. After openly saying "I'm a dude, I just made this chick because I wanted to use the name" all of a sudden people became busy though their night was free just earlier, lol, even though I thought we had became buds in the groups I'd met them in(I never said anything remotely sexual, and detered those comments because obviously that's gross, I just made normal grind chitchats as I do on all my characters).
Moral of the story:
Stop being desperate losers and you won't get taken advantage of by either gender.
Just Play The Game
(n_-)b
"Farewell remorse, all good to me is gone.. Evil, be Thou my Good."