This is just another example of pulling just the OP without copying the entire thread. I am sure if we had the entire thread there would of been massive amounts (on both the fanboi and hater sides) of trolling flaming and other not very constructive posts. Plus calling the game director a liar isn't exactly constructive either.
But he did lie, those features were not there at launch
And the post stands on its own
Your defense of Funcom moderation is as hilarious as the censorship on the US and EU AOC boards
It isn't a matter of whether he lied or not. He did. Just like Blizzard lied about World of Warcraft. (Battlegrounds were listed as a feature in my Manual) and other companies have lied about content that got cut at the last minute for further testing or polish.
The point is that calling him a liar is in no way constructive. What do you expect to receive as a response? Oh why yes I am a liar. Thank you for pointing that out.
No of course not. Instead it turns the thread into a cesspool of trolls and flames.
Quite entertaining as this classifies as false advertisement. which is illegal. And yet amazingly enough no one has called them on it, them or blizzard.
I am rather enjoying watching the meltdown of AoC because, beta testers were squaking about it before it released. Provides some great humor!
Actually if someone lies and is called on it then I expect them to admit it and if they do not they should be flamed. And yes admitting a wrong is contructive. And flaming a liar is constructive too. It may not be nice, but its constructive because because it establishes that they cannot get away with their wrong doing.
Just like when the PM goes to the house of Commons in Britain and gets shouted down if he really messes up.
What is extremely destructive is letting liars get away with lying. And what's even worse is letting them get away with lying just because one is being a wuss or coerced into acting like a wuss. Because then they know they can walk all over you and they will.
hell, EA Mythic lied about the 6 capital cities, and 4 classes, they cut the four classes, and cut 4 capital cities, but I wanted them to do that cause the more people in one space the better (not sarcastic)
That is just false, i wonder what reasons you have to say that. If you believe these ppl that probably are angry about something they dont like in game and try to make up something to support what they say. Maybe he and his friends left, tons of ppl still playing, its not wow but has many ppl.
The only true thing is that there is a BIG CENSORSHIP in AoC official forums, but it was so big before game release too. Their forums just suck.
Blade with whom i have lived, blade with whom I now die. Serve right and justice one last time. Seek one last heart of evil. Still one last life of pain. Cut well old friend. Then farewell!
hell, EA Mythic lied about the 6 capital cities, and 4 classes, they cut the four classes, and cut 4 capital cities, but I wanted them to do that cause the more people in one space the better (not sarcastic)
so what type of BS are you talking about? But yeah, Funcom has lost, when their subscriber base dries up, they'll lose so much funding. How do you support a game if you don't have any money? So, obviously the fate is doomed. I did a poll on patches, and no one likes the new patches, everywhere I go I see nothing but hate for Age of Conan, how do the hardcore players respond to Funcom's financial problems? I think the game has met it's end, cause if Warhammer flubs up, EA can bale them out unlike Funcom.
Come on, just because Age of Conan was full of lies and epic fail. That does not mean that their new MMO "Secret World : Age of Gaia(shit)" will be full of epic fail as well :P
I'd like to be the first(I'm probably not) to say that Secret World will never see the light of day after Funcom has proven its worthlessness once again. At least AO had a little depth to it. AoC is ten steps backwards.
so what type of BS are you talking about? But yeah, Funcom has lost, when their subscriber base dries up, they'll lose so much funding. How do you support a game if you don't have any money? So, obviously the fate is doomed. I did a poll on patches, and no one likes the new patches, everywhere I go I see nothing but hate for Age of Conan, how do the hardcore players respond to Funcom's financial problems? I think the game has met it's end, cause if Warhammer flubs up, EA can bale them out unlike Funcom.
Who knows maybe they are in trouble or on the brink of tanking , But I wouldn't put to much faith in to a poll you created here.90% of those who post here have quit , Most admit to have quit before the free month was up. Would we really know how to judge a patch on an unbiased basis ? At this point it's not that people dislike AOC , They hate funcom that much is apparent .
Personally I won't approve of a patch until it has the pvp system written in it , I'll give it one more shot then . After that I'll try war , If I dislike that I won't be playing an MMO for some time .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't know so much about Lufkin, as I haven't read all the crazy things he has written, but seeing how famine got owned in the other thread, I would be surprised if he came here under a FC tag
I have probably over 2k posts on official forum and I never got infraction least have been banned. Several unimportant posts deleted maybe. And no, I dont have "FC fanboi" attitude, on the contrary. I put up with bugs, performance issues, everything. What I wont put up with is total lack of communication from FC, stealth nerfs that never get explanations, no input about where the game is going and why.
I am sure there would be lot less hate at AoC if we got some clear statement about direction where the game is going. We nerfed this because... buffed that because... didnt fix this because... Even if FC kept their arrogant attitude "working as intended" about the most stupid solutions, one could at least have *some* respect for them. Getting zero information is unacceptable and in my opinion THAT will kill AoC sooner than some confused moderator with low IQ.
why do you feel entitled to anything?
Is this whole "entitled" thing the new cool catch phrase around here? It's actually kind of stupid. If a company wants to go into business providing a service to customers, they had better be willing and able to meet customer expectations. Customers ARE entitled to get what they are paying for.
Note that the following is my opinion and not a matter of fact (apart from the forum censorship part, which is reported without exaggeration) The censorship on the AOC forums reached epidemic levels today with the minute-by-minute deletion of a hammering of quitting posts, and systematic censorship of all critical posts exposing Funcom's total lack of progress to try to save a contentless and terminally bugged, dying game. Seems like everyone has realised their feedback just goes into the trash, there will be no major overhaul of the game, and that the player base is extremely small already. There's also been a remarkable rise in the fanboy/shill population: Funcom apologists who have suddenly appeared to replace the critical posts with the notion that "today's patch was good" when it contained nothing but 3 small bugfixes while all the game content is still not there. Clearly Funcom sold the game on the back of features that simply don't exist. They get called out on it, but those who criticise their posts have their posts deleted and infractions to their account. Soon to come: server merges, server shutdowns and quite possibly a whimpering end to one of the most entertainingly botched yet strangely Orwellian MMO releases ever made
While not 100% in agreement with your outlook, FC isn't providing this subscriber enough to rebut your sentiments. Hopefully you won't mind some attention towards your thoughts on their board moderation.
In regards to censorship. Your clearly familiar with those forums just as much as I am. Could we not both agree they deserve cleaning up? The extremely high volume of board posters and registered members does present a challenge for moderators (of whom I'm not a fan of).
Those forums are a mess and they're diligently moderated, at a level you yourself say is a "minute-by-minute" rate. Those moderators are deleting across the board and this takes posts from each end of the spectrum down simultaneously.
As a customer I want the opportunity to compliment, question and criticize the game, without penalty and without risk of deletion.
I'm not free of my own hypocrisy though. If those boards were my responsibility, I would probably give the moderators a directive to keep the negative threads in check via deletion. When or if ownership looks at why customers had a negative experience, they sure as heck wouldn't point to my forums.
Ultimately, the product dictates the pulse of it's customer base. If AOC were a quality product, void of dubious marketing tactics, the community would stamp out unwarranted overly negative avatars and the forums would lend itself a reputable portrait, rather than an artificial moderator manicured one.
Your Orwellian reference is actually a compliment.
Keeping a minute-by-minute eye on the forums is a good thing.
Minute-by-minute deletion of posts critical of the game and ONLY posts critical of the game, while allowing the most absurd, jingoistic displays of fanboyism to continue unfettered is not a good thing.
It's not even forum moderation at that point.
It is censorship for the sake of PR in order to mislead customers about the state of the game.
And that is why myself and so many other take issue with it.
Note that the following is my opinion and not a matter of fact (apart from the forum censorship part, which is reported without exaggeration) The censorship on the AOC forums reached epidemic levels today with the minute-by-minute deletion of a hammering of quitting posts, and systematic censorship of all critical posts exposing Funcom's total lack of progress to try to save a contentless and terminally bugged, dying game. Seems like everyone has realised their feedback just goes into the trash, there will be no major overhaul of the game, and that the player base is extremely small already. There's also been a remarkable rise in the fanboy/shill population: Funcom apologists who have suddenly appeared to replace the critical posts with the notion that "today's patch was good" when it contained nothing but 3 small bugfixes while all the game content is still not there. Clearly Funcom sold the game on the back of features that simply don't exist. They get called out on it, but those who criticise their posts have their posts deleted and infractions to their account. Soon to come: server merges, server shutdowns and quite possibly a whimpering end to one of the most entertainingly botched yet strangely Orwellian MMO releases ever made
Who cares!! Stop whining...The Forums have nothing to do with the game itself.. AOC servers are very packed with players in the morning, afternoon, and especially the evening hours, so I don't know why your posting this at all...Are you logging into every server and getting numbers? Wheres your proof?.
The game is coming along nicely, things are getting fixed. It would be nice to see people exercising some patience maybe as much time as they spent whining would be nice. The thing that makes no sense is why people can't just say their peace and move on....Seriously..
Originally posted by woody1974 Originally posted by Arthousesig Note that the following is my opinion and not a matter of fact (apart from the forum censorship part, which is reported without exaggeration) The censorship on the AOC forums reached epidemic levels today with the minute-by-minute deletion of a hammering of quitting posts, and systematic censorship of all critical posts exposing Funcom's total lack of progress to try to save a contentless and terminally bugged, dying game. Seems like everyone has realised their feedback just goes into the trash, there will be no major overhaul of the game, and that the player base is extremely small already. There's also been a remarkable rise in the fanboy/shill population: Funcom apologists who have suddenly appeared to replace the critical posts with the notion that "today's patch was good" when it contained nothing but 3 small bugfixes while all the game content is still not there. Clearly Funcom sold the game on the back of features that simply don't exist. They get called out on it, but those who criticise their posts have their posts deleted and infractions to their account. Soon to come: server merges, server shutdowns and quite possibly a whimpering end to one of the most entertainingly botched yet strangely Orwellian MMO releases ever made
Who cares!! Stop whining...The Forums have nothing to do with the game itself.. AOC servers are very packed with players in the morning, afternoon, and especially the evening hours, so I don't know why your posting this at all...Are you logging into every server and getting numbers? Wheres your proof?. The game is coming along nicely, things are getting fixed. It would be nice to see people exercising some patience maybe as much time as they spent whining would be nice. The thing that makes no sense is why people can't just say their peace and move on....Seriously..
wheres your proof?? wheres your proof?? wheres your proof?? wahhhh wahhh wahhh!!! god thats all people say around here. ive seen well over 10 posts in the last month state the decline in server population, which to me means that someone is keeping tabs on the game. And after i quit the game i also saw that all the big guilds that were playing on my server have left too...thats well over 300+ players. And yes forums have EVERYTHING to do with the game..its the place players go to discuss the game with everyone else.
Note that the following is my opinion and not a matter of fact (apart from the forum censorship part, which is reported without exaggeration) The censorship on the AOC forums reached epidemic levels today with the minute-by-minute deletion of a hammering of quitting posts, and systematic censorship of all critical posts exposing Funcom's total lack of progress to try to save a contentless and terminally bugged, dying game. Seems like everyone has realised their feedback just goes into the trash, there will be no major overhaul of the game, and that the player base is extremely small already. There's also been a remarkable rise in the fanboy/shill population: Funcom apologists who have suddenly appeared to replace the critical posts with the notion that "today's patch was good" when it contained nothing but 3 small bugfixes while all the game content is still not there. Clearly Funcom sold the game on the back of features that simply don't exist. They get called out on it, but those who criticise their posts have their posts deleted and infractions to their account. Soon to come: server merges, server shutdowns and quite possibly a whimpering end to one of the most entertainingly botched yet strangely Orwellian MMO releases ever made
I have heard many times this phrase:If we continue to allow game companies to release games half done they will continue to do so.
This i believe to be true.
You know what else is true?
If players continue to whine and complain and threaten to quit so much so on a games forum board that it is overloaded postings get deleted.Hell if it were me i would shut the boards down if that was going on.
Whiners and complainers in this genre are just as harmful to it as games being released half done.So i guess a game should just be in development for 10 years then?
Lets see the next developer looks at AoC and decides after say 3 years that they will continue to develop for 4 more.By this time they have lost all investors and then some.New games come along and take over and then they just decide to stop alltogether.
Never in my life have i ever seen more people whine and complain about something that matters so little as a freaking video game.You would think these people had nothing better to do.
Note that the following is my opinion and not a matter of fact (apart from the forum censorship part, which is reported without exaggeration) The censorship on the AOC forums reached epidemic levels today with the minute-by-minute deletion of a hammering of quitting posts, and systematic censorship of all critical posts exposing Funcom's total lack of progress to try to save a contentless and terminally bugged, dying game. Seems like everyone has realised their feedback just goes into the trash, there will be no major overhaul of the game, and that the player base is extremely small already. There's also been a remarkable rise in the fanboy/shill population: Funcom apologists who have suddenly appeared to replace the critical posts with the notion that "today's patch was good" when it contained nothing but 3 small bugfixes while all the game content is still not there. Clearly Funcom sold the game on the back of features that simply don't exist. They get called out on it, but those who criticise their posts have their posts deleted and infractions to their account. Soon to come: server merges, server shutdowns and quite possibly a whimpering end to one of the most entertainingly botched yet strangely Orwellian MMO releases ever made
I have heard many times this phrase:If we continue to allow game companies to release games half done they will continue to do so.
This i believe to be true.
You know what else is true?
If players continue to whine and complain and threaten to quit so much so on a games forum board that it is overloaded postings get deleted.Hell if it were me i would shut the boards down if that was going on.
Whiners and complainers in this genre are just as harmful to it as games being released half done.So i guess a game should just be in development for 10 years then?
Lets see the next developer looks at AoC and decides after say 3 years that they will continue to develop for 4 more.By this time they have lost all investors and then some.New games come along and take over and then they just decide to stop alltogether.
Never in my life have i ever seen more people whine and complain about something that matters so little as a freaking video game.You would think these people had nothing better to do.
You realize you are posting on mmorpg.com, don't you?
This is just another example of pulling just the OP without copying the entire thread. I am sure if we had the entire thread there would of been massive amounts (on both the fanboi and hater sides) of trolling flaming and other not very constructive posts. Plus calling the game director a liar isn't exactly constructive either.
But he did lie, those features were not there at launch
And the post stands on its own
Your defense of Funcom moderation is as hilarious as the censorship on the US and EU AOC boards
It isn't a matter of whether he lied or not. He did. Just like Blizzard lied about World of Warcraft. (Battlegrounds were listed as a feature in my Manual) and other companies have lied about content that got cut at the last minute for further testing or polish.
The point is that calling him a liar is in no way constructive. What do you expect to receive as a response? Oh why yes I am a liar. Thank you for pointing that out.
No of course not. Instead it turns the thread into a cesspool of trolls and flames.
Quite entertaining as this classifies as false advertisement. which is illegal. And yet amazingly enough no one has called them on it, them or blizzard.
I am rather enjoying watching the meltdown of AoC because, beta testers were squaking about it before it released. Provides some great humor!
I played WoW at launch and I think the reason no one sued them is the game they created was too much fun and way too easy to get into now from what I hear about AoC is a bunch of features missing lot's of things broken plenty of stealth nerfs and it isn't really easy to figure out what the heck they're trying to do so I think we can assume that we will all give a company some room to mess up but this looks a bit like going too far for me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Comments
But he did lie, those features were not there at launch
And the post stands on its own
Your defense of Funcom moderation is as hilarious as the censorship on the US and EU AOC boards
It isn't a matter of whether he lied or not. He did. Just like Blizzard lied about World of Warcraft. (Battlegrounds were listed as a feature in my Manual) and other companies have lied about content that got cut at the last minute for further testing or polish.
The point is that calling him a liar is in no way constructive. What do you expect to receive as a response? Oh why yes I am a liar. Thank you for pointing that out.
No of course not. Instead it turns the thread into a cesspool of trolls and flames.
Quite entertaining as this classifies as false advertisement. which is illegal. And yet amazingly enough no one has called them on it, them or blizzard.
I am rather enjoying watching the meltdown of AoC because, beta testers were squaking about it before it released. Provides some great humor!
Actually if someone lies and is called on it then I expect them to admit it and if they do not they should be flamed. And yes admitting a wrong is contructive. And flaming a liar is constructive too. It may not be nice, but its constructive because because it establishes that they cannot get away with their wrong doing.
Just like when the PM goes to the house of Commons in Britain and gets shouted down if he really messes up.
What is extremely destructive is letting liars get away with lying. And what's even worse is letting them get away with lying just because one is being a wuss or coerced into acting like a wuss. Because then they know they can walk all over you and they will.
hell, EA Mythic lied about the 6 capital cities, and 4 classes, they cut the four classes, and cut 4 capital cities, but I wanted them to do that cause the more people in one space the better (not sarcastic)
hey, at least they're telling us what will be missing at launch, unlike Funcom
That is just false, i wonder what reasons you have to say that. If you believe these ppl that probably are angry about something they dont like in game and try to make up something to support what they say. Maybe he and his friends left, tons of ppl still playing, its not wow but has many ppl.
The only true thing is that there is a BIG CENSORSHIP in AoC official forums, but it was so big before game release too. Their forums just suck.
Blade with whom i have lived, blade with whom I now die. Serve right and justice one last time. Seek one last heart of evil. Still one last life of pain. Cut well old friend. Then farewell!
as OP just said, at least Mythic is honest.
I see Lufkin, I mean Drake took his freshly new account and stopped posting bs in this thread.
rofl was that Lufkin? XD
so what type of BS are you talking about? But yeah, Funcom has lost, when their subscriber base dries up, they'll lose so much funding. How do you support a game if you don't have any money? So, obviously the fate is doomed. I did a poll on patches, and no one likes the new patches, everywhere I go I see nothing but hate for Age of Conan, how do the hardcore players respond to Funcom's financial problems? I think the game has met it's end, cause if Warhammer flubs up, EA can bale them out unlike Funcom.
rofl was that Lufkin? XD
Hmm, does this mean that Lufkin is a 29 year old female?
I always thought that it was a guy with that dorky name.
Let us bare witness to the compelling drama that is aoc.
I'd like to be the first(I'm probably not) to say that Secret World will never see the light of day after Funcom has proven its worthlessness once again. At least AO had a little depth to it. AoC is ten steps backwards.
Who knows maybe they are in trouble or on the brink of tanking , But I wouldn't put to much faith in to a poll you created here.90% of those who post here have quit , Most admit to have quit before the free month was up. Would we really know how to judge a patch on an unbiased basis ? At this point it's not that people dislike AOC , They hate funcom that much is apparent .
Personally I won't approve of a patch until it has the pvp system written in it , I'll give it one more shot then . After that I'll try war , If I dislike that I won't be playing an MMO for some time .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
rofl was that Lufkin? XD
Come on. You and I both know that Lufkin would post as Lufkin even here.
Currently playing:
World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer Beta, Age of Conan Forums.
I don't know so much about Lufkin, as I haven't read all the crazy things he has written, but seeing how famine got owned in the other thread, I would be surprised if he came here under a FC tag
Funcom is so dead, how are they gonna get outta this one?
rofl was that Lufkin? XD
Come on. You and I both know that Lufkin would post as Lufkin even here.
So, besides logging in to AoC now and then - do you have any connection to Funcom?
why do you feel entitled to anything?
Is this whole "entitled" thing the new cool catch phrase around here? It's actually kind of stupid. If a company wants to go into business providing a service to customers, they had better be willing and able to meet customer expectations. Customers ARE entitled to get what they are paying for.
While not 100% in agreement with your outlook, FC isn't providing this subscriber enough to rebut your sentiments. Hopefully you won't mind some attention towards your thoughts on their board moderation.
In regards to censorship. Your clearly familiar with those forums just as much as I am. Could we not both agree they deserve cleaning up? The extremely high volume of board posters and registered members does present a challenge for moderators (of whom I'm not a fan of).
Those forums are a mess and they're diligently moderated, at a level you yourself say is a "minute-by-minute" rate. Those moderators are deleting across the board and this takes posts from each end of the spectrum down simultaneously.
As a customer I want the opportunity to compliment, question and criticize the game, without penalty and without risk of deletion.
I'm not free of my own hypocrisy though. If those boards were my responsibility, I would probably give the moderators a directive to keep the negative threads in check via deletion. When or if ownership looks at why customers had a negative experience, they sure as heck wouldn't point to my forums.
Ultimately, the product dictates the pulse of it's customer base. If AOC were a quality product, void of dubious marketing tactics, the community would stamp out unwarranted overly negative avatars and the forums would lend itself a reputable portrait, rather than an artificial moderator manicured one.
Your Orwellian reference is actually a compliment.
Take it easy.
Keeping a minute-by-minute eye on the forums is a good thing.
Minute-by-minute deletion of posts critical of the game and ONLY posts critical of the game, while allowing the most absurd, jingoistic displays of fanboyism to continue unfettered is not a good thing.
It's not even forum moderation at that point.
It is censorship for the sake of PR in order to mislead customers about the state of the game.
And that is why myself and so many other take issue with it.
Who cares!! Stop whining...The Forums have nothing to do with the game itself.. AOC servers are very packed with players in the morning, afternoon, and especially the evening hours, so I don't know why your posting this at all...Are you logging into every server and getting numbers? Wheres your proof?.
The game is coming along nicely, things are getting fixed. It would be nice to see people exercising some patience maybe as much time as they spent whining would be nice. The thing that makes no sense is why people can't just say their peace and move on....Seriously..
Who cares!! Stop whining...The Forums have nothing to do with the game itself.. AOC servers are very packed with players in the morning, afternoon, and especially the evening hours, so I don't know why your posting this at all...Are you logging into every server and getting numbers? Wheres your proof?.
The game is coming along nicely, things are getting fixed. It would be nice to see people exercising some patience maybe as much time as they spent whining would be nice. The thing that makes no sense is why people can't just say their peace and move on....Seriously..
wheres your proof?? wheres your proof?? wheres your proof?? wahhhh wahhh wahhh!!! god thats all people say around here. ive seen well over 10 posts in the last month state the decline in server population, which to me means that someone is keeping tabs on the game. And after i quit the game i also saw that all the big guilds that were playing on my server have left too...thats well over 300+ players. And yes forums have EVERYTHING to do with the game..its the place players go to discuss the game with everyone else.
I have heard many times this phrase:If we continue to allow game companies to release games half done they will continue to do so.
This i believe to be true.
You know what else is true?
If players continue to whine and complain and threaten to quit so much so on a games forum board that it is overloaded postings get deleted.Hell if it were me i would shut the boards down if that was going on.
Whiners and complainers in this genre are just as harmful to it as games being released half done.So i guess a game should just be in development for 10 years then?
Lets see the next developer looks at AoC and decides after say 3 years that they will continue to develop for 4 more.By this time they have lost all investors and then some.New games come along and take over and then they just decide to stop alltogether.
Never in my life have i ever seen more people whine and complain about something that matters so little as a freaking video game.You would think these people had nothing better to do.
What is your physical limit?
So much for the mighty WOW killer...
I have heard many times this phrase:If we continue to allow game companies to release games half done they will continue to do so.
This i believe to be true.
You know what else is true?
If players continue to whine and complain and threaten to quit so much so on a games forum board that it is overloaded postings get deleted.Hell if it were me i would shut the boards down if that was going on.
Whiners and complainers in this genre are just as harmful to it as games being released half done.So i guess a game should just be in development for 10 years then?
Lets see the next developer looks at AoC and decides after say 3 years that they will continue to develop for 4 more.By this time they have lost all investors and then some.New games come along and take over and then they just decide to stop alltogether.
Never in my life have i ever seen more people whine and complain about something that matters so little as a freaking video game.You would think these people had nothing better to do.
You realize you are posting on mmorpg.com, don't you?
But he did lie, those features were not there at launch
And the post stands on its own
Your defense of Funcom moderation is as hilarious as the censorship on the US and EU AOC boards
It isn't a matter of whether he lied or not. He did. Just like Blizzard lied about World of Warcraft. (Battlegrounds were listed as a feature in my Manual) and other companies have lied about content that got cut at the last minute for further testing or polish.
The point is that calling him a liar is in no way constructive. What do you expect to receive as a response? Oh why yes I am a liar. Thank you for pointing that out.
No of course not. Instead it turns the thread into a cesspool of trolls and flames.
Quite entertaining as this classifies as false advertisement. which is illegal. And yet amazingly enough no one has called them on it, them or blizzard.
I am rather enjoying watching the meltdown of AoC because, beta testers were squaking about it before it released. Provides some great humor!
I played WoW at launch and I think the reason no one sued them is the game they created was too much fun and way too easy to get into now from what I hear about AoC is a bunch of features missing lot's of things broken plenty of stealth nerfs and it isn't really easy to figure out what the heck they're trying to do so I think we can assume that we will all give a company some room to mess up but this looks a bit like going too far for me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....