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A Sad Day for Warhammer Online
Juvante
Member Posts: 88
I'm not a Warhammer Online lore fan or a table top fan but all i can say is, that the game we all have been truly waiting for isn't going to come. We were not promised, but we were told that there would be 6 capital cities with 24 classes all balancing out the game with PvP, PvE, RvR, etc.
Instead what we have is a rushed, unfinished game going retail without 4 essential classes and the 4 living capital cities for the other factions.
Now lets go into greater detail on why i think this is a MAJOR killing blow to the game.
1) Obviously in PvE, they won't have a tank, and if all the tanks from the other side goto that side to "MAKE UP" for it, that side will be short on tanks. Greenskins battles with the dwarves will be reduced to a shootout since the tanks will get roasted by the magic dealers, according to the archetype formula they are weak vs magic dealers, and it will be a shootout after they are dead. No melee dps there to take care of clothies, oops, thats not good. Thats like a warrior with a sword and shield wacking on a priest for 45 damage, 35 damage, 56 damage, priest does 2342 damage, warrior owned. The tanks will be useless because there will be no melee dps to worry about and magic can BYPASS collision detection, obviously. Oops, missed that didn't we. Goodbye collision detection. Bye Bye one race guilds, goodbye roleplaying. Bye Bye Karak Eight Peaks.
2) It forces people to leave their racial zone, some people won't want to do that for roleplaying reasons or because they want to enjoy their special race content first, then move on. Since you can dive right into the game at level 1 for every single part of the game, both PvP and PvE, those factions missing the essential classes will be severley crippled and it will show in mass scale once the game goes live. It's going to be irritating having to wait or be the person that has to leave their zone to goto the other faction zones, just so they can fill in the roles that are SUPPOSE TO BE THERE.
3) Those that have all 4 will kill those that have 3 because the melee dps will tear through the clothies like swiss cheese, they will have no one to protect them or a protector to heal. Collision detection will be useless because the melee dps can't tank and certainly the healer can't either!! Warrior priest is NOT the tank sorry, that just doesn't work according to the archetype formula. Yea, this is warhammer, yea everyone fights but hes THE HEALER, if he goes down, no healing. You can kiss goodbye surviving more then 20 seconds when all your fragile classes fall apart to the 4 class race that has it all. The faction with 4 will have more variety and options to use no matter how good they make the 3 classes, which will put the battle into the favor of chaos and into the favor of the High Elves and reduce PvP for Greenskins and Dwarves to a old west shootout game.
4) The missing cities cripples the game quite a bit. For those that like Roleplaying, me not being one of them, you can throw that right out the window. Once people finally take the capital city, there will be nothing left to do. Doesn't that just remind you of a game we all know quite well? Instead of the excitement and adrenaline rush constantly going, and people saying "ONTO THE NEXT BATTLEFRONT", or "LETS GO HELP OUR ALLIES", it will be "Ok, lets camp and loot one capital and wait for the inevitable timer to run out so that they get buffs that make them overpowered and push us out of the city, and then, WHAT WILL BE THE INCENTIVE TO DO THAT AGAIN? Maybe you would do it again, but three times? Four? Twenty? No, thats like saying you want to raid the same dungeon 30 times in a row....no sorry. I would have rather moved to the other battlefront and tried to attack the other living capital city, not some pathetic fortress. They totally narrowed it down to one capital city, i don't care how epic they make it, sure, epic only lasts so long and we all know that, once its over, its OVER.
5) Jeff can compare it to Football all he wants to, "If you win the Superbowl, you don't just quit and never play again, you try to win the super bowl again"....sorry Jeff this is a video game, not the super bowl. Who really wants to start all the way over from city 1 and do it all over again 20-30 times in the same zones, yea and you can just forget about the other faction racial zones, the skirmishes over there will be hauntingly empty. Well no, correction, they won't be since you HAVE to fight over there to get the fortress and then open yourself up to the Altdorf or Chaos city, but still, every quest and every event you participate in will mean nothing to you if you're a dwarf or a elf or a greenskin, now its all about ONE faction, order and chaos. So Roleplayers, you can forget about meeting that epic endgame boss in your races capital, you won't have one. Coming from the horses mouth himself:
Mark Jacobs: We never intended on making the other cities living cities.
Oh ok, thanks for being clear about that in the podcasts, i kinda got the idea that you wanted that "awesome" as you call it feature for all the other ones too, hmm, guess not. Money seems to matter more even though by doing this you will make less money when people get bored. So long term you fail, short term you might get a hype sell and lots of money, then lose subscribers once a better game comes out.
Paul Barnett: Warhammer Online for the next 20 years
Nope sorry, more like 2 years and then a serious decline. I refuse to pay for a game unfinished and wait till they decide whenever its convenient to them, to add in the missing content. You are paying them YOUR hard earned money and they have no obligation or desire to give you ANYTHING if you continue to pay them for unfinished games. You can be in denial all you want to, i was waiting for this game too, but when it comes down to end game and racing to the finish line, Mythic drops the ball. I refuse to play a broken game that goes against its very foundation of Rock, Paper and Scissors and then leaving out Rock, or maybe scissors here and there. And expecting the playerbase to "deal with it" "make up for it", or force them to alter their playstyles because they have to leave their zones and goto a different zone. Will you even have trainers in the other zones, like an engineer going to order, or will they have to walk all the way back to dwarven lands, talk about irritating.
For a game that had up to two delays, they decide to rush the game out, with a broken and unbalanced combat system, because its missing the essential archetypes to give those players a chance. Just imagine people thinking that when they enter the game as ORDER, that I'm going to play PvP RIGHT AWAY, how are you going to feel when you come against chaos who, have all of the archetypes, and totally nail your casters because they have a dps and a tank. Their tank uses collision detection to protect their weaker allies, and order can't. What happens? The melee dps gets owned hardcore, he cannot tank and this will happen in PvE too. The casters will be chased by melee dps and chaos chosens and cut down inevitably because they have no protection. Sad, very sad. Then everyone will cry and complain and say , "Go roll a ironbreaker and come over here and help us", and then he says " BUT i dont want to be a tank i like my witchhunter". "LF IRONBREAKER OR HIGH ELF TANK, PLEASE HELP US WERE GETTING OWNED HARDCORE OVER HERE. WE CAN"T EVEN DO OUR OWN PUBLIC QUESTS, WERE PATHETIC!". So i guess Order is on autopilot for getting spanked until the Ironbreaker comes to save the day or the High Elf tank, and that is just down right sad.
The poor dark elves will be feeling the same heat, they will get spanked by the high elves.
The greenskins and dwarves will be standing 10 feet apart like British Minute Men and fire volleys of magic at each other because the ironbreakers will be obliterated by the nuking casters and their will be no melee dps to be found.
So to sum it up:
Order vs Chaos = Order gets its clothies ripped to shreds and they get annialated
High Elves vs Dark Elves = Same things as above for Dark Elves
Dwarves and Greenskins = Like an Old Western Shootout movie scene
And Mythic seriously thinks this is ok? No, its not ok. Have i not convinced you yet, are you just waiting to get to the end of this so you can flame me with a million reasons as to how wrong i am? Do you think " They are withholding them to be released later"
Says who? What makes you think they HAVE to, once you have paid them for 12 months or more, get out a calculator and times 3,000,000 x $15.00/month and times that by 12. Yes wow, thats 540,000,00 MILLION DOLLARS, thats enough to make several MMOs. And that doesn't include the fact that it could be more then 3 million subscribers, what if the hype got so huge and people stayed in denial for a whole year about the game just like they did in a game we all know quite well (you know of what i speak). What if it was 6,000,000 people, oh good lord thats 1,080,000,000....a BILLION. They could shut down the servers and rinse their hands of it for all they care, and to give you the other cities and classes? PFFT!!!! Says who!!
Mark Jacobs: We hope that we are able to release the missing content in a free update and not an expansion.
LOL HOPE? Yes, lets just pay them for 12 months and hopefully if they feel in the right mood, they won't put it into an expansion. Please, pretty please Mythic. Rofl.
I am very disappointed with Warhammer Online after following it for several months after discovering it and waiting for a good MMO, but they ruined the game because they felt the need to rush it out. If they added back in those classes and the capital cities and made them living. I would be satisfied, but thats not going to happen. I'm not paying them a dime. Either release it finished or don't bother releasing it at all. Good god haven't you corporations figured that out by now, that your success is extremely crippled when you release it early and unfinished? Look at AOC, nothing but hype and pure boredom, who here uninstalled their game within the first day or so? I walked from one instance to the next, wow, and the combat wasn't so "great" as they said it was, gotta love the hype machine.
This wasn't an attack on Warhammer Online, just MY OWN opinion and feelings on it and disappointment with it. It is now a shadow of what it could have been to me honestly and another failed MMO that decided to take the easy road when it was so close to the finish line. Not everyone is going to agree with me, its not my desire to do so, everyone is going to have critics and everyone is always going to have someone that disagrees, period. You know where i stand, and have the right to argue against it and disagree all you want to, but i will not buy this game, and i will not pay a company my hard earned cash, month to month, for an unfinished, "could have been" game. No i won't be like all of you in denial people, i will just work on things that are much more important in life and when it comes to games I'll just play console games or upcoming games on the PC like Spore, that looks fun.
My hope is that the Warhammer Team gets a clue and delays the game yet again, if not, it'll be a sad game in my opinion 
.
Comments
Have you read any of the developers reasoning behind and of the things they have done?
you need to research a bit.
on another note, Racial-specific guilds are gonna be a bit screwed at lauch, but they will not be totally screwed to the point where it can't happen
and remember this is a RvR game
not a Race vs Race x3
game
Well, I guess we will see.
And when the game releases, if it is as horrible as you say it will be because of these changes, you can go ahead and post and say, "i told you so".
If the game releases, and it isnt doom and gloom, or anything like what you posted (because you fail to grasp the concept that WAR isnt working with typical "archetypes"...), well... I will be too busy enjoying the game to bother posting "i told you so".
Sound like a fair deal to you?
Do you have anything to base your opinions on?
No?
Ok, then don't post this crap.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
Great post Juvante.
I have gone from a "Will play" to a "Might buy if most of the Open Beta posts are positive"
Honestly, they should have just pushed it back to May 2009, instead of releasing it in this state.
However, I think the jury is still out. I need more proof on how the game really is before I even buy the preorder.
well im glad you won't play it because you dont sound like a very bright one. They have said all along they were looking for realm pride, not race pride. Everything pre launch is subject to change and you need to stop following games in pre launch if you don't understand that. It doesn't even sound like you have played beta. So much assumptions your post its not even funny. People will always switch to different racial pairings because of guilds and such. This isn't wow where battles last a good 2 seconds and rogues 1 or 2 shot cloth wearers.
Holly shit that was the longest and most well written troll i have ever seen
but seriously, you are taking the cuts and forecasting the worse possible results of them. It has just been so long since the release of a good mmo that people have forgotten that a lot of things get cut and yet everything still turns out peaches in the end.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
3 mediocre cities vs 1 epic city. Hard choice, you can have less content overall and 3 different battlefronts (That's the missing content right there) or 1 battlefront you hit over and over and over again, till they add the other citys, and then HOPE it wont be city rotation. The game is great, it just needs some more cooking in the oven. I belive after the first or second city burn down siege, they will have some new content (Hopefully new cities)
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
The OP here is wrong in so many ways i dont have the energy to address them all .. Lol go do some reading and at least learn abit about the mechanics of this game before making a fool of yourself
There is so much wrong with the original post, but I can't really say anything until the NDA drops. Just wait a little longer and the WAR testers will voice their opinion en masse when the NDA drops.
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/flash/2008-07_podcast.html
That has got to be the biggest complain list I have ever seen. You, sir or ma'am, win the QQ Award of the Year.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Juvante, people that post things like as you just posted are one of the main problems in this wonderful industry. Mythic made a decision, a decision I know was very difficult for them. This I know after having a relationship of numerous years with them. But they decided that they had three options. One, release this game with truly broken classes and cities, which would unbalance it truly and out of their control to fix it. Two, delay it again and have yet another deadline which they may not be able to meet with the quality standards they have. Or three, remove these issues and work on them on their own time to allow them to meet their standards. Which option sounds best to you? Once upon a time Mythic was working on a game called Imperator, which they canceled due to poor quality. This to me, is something to admire. However, when these posts pop up on the forums, it makes developers want to do one thing: not communicate with the costumers of the industry, us. It is unreasonable for people to be upset with Mythic about this. It's perfectly alright to be disappointed, I am as well, I was looking forward to the human tank class. But it would have been far worse if the game was released with below-par features, because that would have been unrepairable. This way, the game is at least functioning.
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"Capitalism is currently working as intended."
People seem to think that it will be some easy task to take an enemy capital. As if either faction will just roll over and let them take it. I bet it will take quite a while, if things are balanced as they should be, for city to fall. So long in fact that by the time its happened on any given server there will be content to be released via patch or even an expansion. Maybe I will be proven wrong but, you know what, I have a feeling. I have a feeling, not only instinctively, but a feeling well rationalized by the fact that Mythic knows what it is doing in the world of RvR and has set a precendent for the success of WAR through it success with DAoC.
you Should have posted this next week so we could discuss indepth on why you are so wrong.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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Well I just have to say I hope you are going Destruction pref Chaos and just do the Chaos battlefront while we in order steam roll Dark Elf and Greenskin and open the Chaos cities from those battlefronts. What? you mean you have not seen the new podcast explaining you have to control 2 of the 3 battlefronts to open the city seige so it won't be just one battlefront over and over and over? oh....
The Overall awareness of fan base was that the game was going to have three battlefronts
Greenskins vs Dwarves
Chaos vs Order
High Elves vs Dark Elves
It's still Realm vs Realm but what makes it more exciting is having 3 battlefronts to choose from, now you have only 1 and you’re missing essential classes. Like one of the posters already stated. It needs more cooking time in the oven, and for them to release it now is foolish.
To the other posters that could do nothing but say i make assumptions or i need to do more research, i already know theres going to be disagreements, but i have done my research, and no i have not made a fool out of myself. I have stated my opinion on the current state of the game, and for you to not agree that is your choice, theres no need to be insulting. But either way it doesn't effect me, you will always have people that disagree with you. When it comes to Mythic, I know what their reasons are, and they are poor excuses when instead they should work more on the game and get it done right, period.
like a previous poster noted: its Realm vs. Realm, not Race vs. race, they have said this countless times, you obviously no nothing about the game
They made these cuts for a good reason (again you obvioulsy know nothing), if its not done, its not done, they can't magically make it finished, so they cut it instead of puting it into the game as a piece of crap, if you want to wait for all the content to be put in then fine, if you want all the content you would have to wait anyway, there are many people who would hapily play the game with less conent,
They have also compensated the city cuts with fortresses (witch IMO are a really good ida anyway)
...and back up your opinions
There are still 3 battlefronts. I'm not putting you down, just saying you are wrong.
You can tell yourself that you are well informed about the game, and have "done your research" but the OP shows to anyone who has half a clue, that you dont know a damn thing about the current state of the game, or anything specific about it.
But thats ok, ignorance is alot easier, and less time consuming than learning about the topic you are talking about.
Looks like you enjoy the sound of your keyboard being tapped, a little too much...
Edit: also, it's EMPIRE not order Vs Chaos as you keep saying..
What I am going to say may seem harsh to those on the outside looking in (to us closed beta testers), but it is simply the truth.
If you are not in CB, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when it comes to WAR. This is simply a fact. Mythic has kept it well underwraps, and even if you go to the leaks site...you still only get a very small picture of what WAR really is. You have not played it, all you can post are assumptions based off what you have heard from third parties.
I'm sorry the OP made such a long post for no reason whatsoever. All it proves is that 1) the guy is not in CB, and thus has not played the game and 2) He has no idea what he is talking about.
It sucks, once NDA drops i'm sure numerous people are going to rip this post apart. Until then, everyone should take what he says with a HUGE grain of salt, as most of it is just flat out wrong.
I have stated my opinion on the current state of the game, and for you to not agree that is your choice, theres no need to be insulting.
Again, the only thing your post does is prove you have no idea what the current state of the game is. Your opinion is ignorant, and there is nothing you can do about it now. It's not your fault, but do not act like those of us who are in CB have to take what you say for more than it's worth. The truth is, your opinion is worth less than nil.
I attempted to read your well written diatribe, but after mere letters of readin it was apparent you know not what you speak. You lack, understanding or wisdom. Once the NDA is lifted, this will be quite clear to just about anyone and their brother, until, I merely laugh at you.
And all the others that panic about the few cuts to the game. WAR will blow you away, settle your fears and assuage your tortured souls.
Or you'll go back to WoW.
Always change your signature.
I have to disagree, i am the consumer, I refuse to pay for something unfinished. You either do it right or not at all. For you to say its unreasonable to get upset, you have incredibly low standards. You will continue to support the industry and continue to encourage them to put out unfinished games because they know the player base will buy it and put up with a half made game for an entire year, thus giving them millions of dollars in the process. And if the game declines, they can rinse their hands of it and walk away with profit.
When it comes to your options, i go with delay the game and according to their perfectionist standards, delay the game yet again. I don't care, release the game right, or not at all. I will not pay for a game that is not done.
I have to disagree, i am the consumer, I refuse to pay for something unfinished. You either do it right or not at all. For you to say its unreasonable to get upset, you have incredibly low standards. You will continue to support the industry and continue to encourage them to put out unfinished games because they know the player base will buy it and put up with a half made game for an entire year, thus giving them millions of dollars in the process. And if the game declines, they can rinse their hands of it and walk away with profit.
When it comes to your options, i go with delay the game and according to their perfectionist standards, delay the game yet again. I don't care, release the game right, or not at all. I will not pay for a game that is not done.
Lol Mythic will deliver and you will be there ... now stop it
I have to disagree, i am the consumer, I refuse to pay for something unfinished. You either do it right or not at all. For you to say its unreasonable to get upset, you have incredibly low standards. You will continue to support the industry and continue to encourage them to put out unfinished games because they know the player base will buy it and put up with a half made game for an entire year, thus giving them millions of dollars in the process. And if the game declines, they can rinse their hands of it and walk away with profit.
When it comes to your options, i go with delay the game and according to their perfectionist standards, delay the game yet again. I don't care, release the game right, or not at all. I will not pay for a game that is not done.
Name me one MMORPG that has EVER been released that "did it right, or not at all" upon release?
Do you play any MMORPGS right now? Id be curious which games you feel are "perfect" so that you would be willing to pay for them.
Just one game, thats all I ask. One game that you feel did it "perfectly". Because if you were to truely stick to your aforementioned standards, you wouldnt be playing a single MMORPG right now...
Well I just have to say I hope you are going Destruction pref Chaos and just do the Chaos battlefront while we in order steam roll Dark Elf and Greenskin and open the Chaos cities from those battlefronts. What? you mean you have not seen the new podcast explaining you have to control 2 of the 3 battlefronts to open the city seige so it won't be just one battlefront over and over and over? oh....
I saw the new podcast, but its going along with what i was saying. Those 4 capital cities don't exist and the four classes are gone, its just about the order and chaos battlefront now. So yes you have to take those fortresses in the other zones but its narrowed down, which i don't think they should have done and it wasn't the picture they painted months ago to us. They drop the ball on us at the last second.