Your assuming alot. You're assumptions is worth nothing. It's 100% feature complete, not 90%. Based on what? A video showing a generic combat system? Is that what Darkfall is? Feature complete? Than I suppose it's feature complete. Have a nice day
Ok since you continualy argue that DarkFall is not feature complete you must have played it. I am of course assuming this since the basis for your arguement is that since he hasn't played it he can't know that it is feature complete I would assume that you would fall under the same requirements. If you havent played DarkFall then you can not say it isn't feature complete. We are of course going based on the word of those Developing the game itself and probably have a better view point than you do, meaning they actual know whats in and whats not unlike you.
Having said that the feature list of DarkFall far surpases WoW's. If they only manage to deliver on half of the list they still Surpase WoW's features. Considering the only thing we have to go by at the moment is the Devs saying DarkFall is feature complete we have to take it as it stands for now until someone has some proof to the contrary. I don't mean opinions from those they have not seen it but actual proof.
Yeah....and when people called others idiotic fanbois when saying that about AoC and FunCom, that was justified...because? Seriously. Most of the people hyping this game have bashed other games as trash more than once, even before release. And you are surprised DF gets the same treatment? Considering there is far LESS to show for DF than there was for AoC (and look how that turned out) or for WAR?
All we have is the word of the developers. some people choose to have faith in that, others do not. Both are valid points. To say it -WILL- fail or it -WILL- succeed on the other hand, are both not valid.
Well considering the past history of FC, you know with Anarchy online and them basicaly repeating what they said then and failing to deliver yet again.... . They ignored us........ The beta forums were wiped alongf with all the complaints and topics about the numerous exclusions . They released and lied lied lied there way to the bank. This isn't a new tactic by FC. DarkFall doesn't have this reputation. Nor have they had a multi-million dollar add campaing. There even putting there money where there mouth is. They want you to try it for FREE before buying it. Not a free trial a year or 2 down the road, a free trial before any of us spends one dime on it. No forced pre-orders to help generate false hype.
The actions FC and EA take while promoting a game always put me on the defensive because they have shady buissness tactics. Aventurine doesn't have that history with me. It's a new company that seems to be attempting to do right by it's players. EA nor FC can say they do right by there players. They do a money grab first then try and keep who they have left. 50-60$ x 800,000 box sales = nice sum to add to there bank accounts. Did all those players stay? no. DId atleast most stay? no. Why? because it was a money grab. Convience as many people to buy it before they try it so that even if they don't like it you get a box sale out of them.
That doesn't seem to me to be what Aventurine is about. So far they have been pretty straight up with the community. They don't communicate on a daily or even weekly basis, seems they try though. But they havent out right lied to us yet.
On a side not FC's Dx10 2 days before launch post was bull. Yes it was done in time to say they warned us. But it wasn't in time for most of us to even know about them saying it. So they wanted the DX10 hype without actually having DX10. More shadey chit.
...OK, maybe we have differing opinions on what qualifies as trust for a company. I'm sorry, I can't see good reason to trust Aventurine more than say Mythic. They haven't screwed up in the past you say...well, that's mainly because they haven't presented much yet, have they? A load of screenshots...and a few videos.
They had a Beta-Date they missed (yes yes, I'm not going to get into the discussion of how many there were, most people seem to agree however that there was -ONE- date they missed). They have promised a lot of things, but haven't shown any evidence for it. They have not let anyone touch their game, save for some obscure people who later wrote articles about it which are less than informative since basically, they only repeat the Dev-Blogs.
Yes, they don#t have a history of screwing up a launch, obviously. But does that suddenly give them some kind of bonus? Does that mean they are immune to the possibility of failure? No. It does not. But some people seem to think so.
It's really getting sort of frustrating to correspond with DF supporters (well, many of them anyway). Simply because they won#t hear -any- sort of criticism about their game, nor any legitimate worries. Yes, they are legitimate, because there have been other games that have promised a lot and have not delivered (and not just by "FailCom"). That, coupled with a above average Development cycle and very little media/evidence on the game makes people wonder. Is that -SO- hard to understand?
They haven't missed any official dates yet. This has been avoided by proper wording. But is a mute point. I have no problem with Mythic but they are owned by EA and EA had plenty of bad history for me atleast and alot of other UO players. Point is I bashed your bash on someone else who was bashing a bash made by someone else lol. It's all rather pointless. I trust Aventurine to the extent im waiting for the release of DarkFall. I believe the features they have said will be in will in fact be in. I base this trust on the what seems to be there current buisness practice. They won't be charging me to try the game. If they did lie like the fore mentioned companies it won't cost me 50-60$ to find that out. So it really serves them less purpose in doing the same lying the other companies have. I trust Aventurine because honestly they won't gain one thing by lying to me if they let me try the game for free before buying it.
FC did not do this. They lied and charged you for the knowledge they did.
Even EA didn't give beta Access to Warhammer without a pre-order.
So the other companies charge you to find out, while Aventurine is going to show us for free.
See why I trust Aventurine on this? Because I lose nothing by doing so. Neither do you or anyone else that wants to bash on fans or ect.
If they fail to deliver no one is out of pocket to find this out so it's no where near the same as the money grab companies. If I trusted FC which many did they were out 50-60$ to find out they were lied to.
Argue all you want about how DarkFall will suck or fail or be vaporware but the point is it isn't going to cost any of us a penny to find out. So chill , wait and see.
I do not speak for anyone, only myself.
I do not speak ill of DF, I just do not trust the game developers so far. In as much as you have godly faith in them, I am skeptical. Its a judgment.
I hardly care for DF as a game, as it stands to me its nothing but a pile of words. I am not going to enjoy a game in the form of reading the descriptions. So far I am here b/c some of the discussions here are pretty absurd. Like comparing the wishlist of DF against actualy features of WoW or EQ or WAR and telling us how DF is supposed to be superior. No you should compare DF to Bible and you will know that heaven is superior.
You trust adventurine b/c they promised you a free trial. Sorry to put it this way, its cheap. I am willing to put up $1 to preorder and try out WAR. $1 is affordable. If you like DF b/c they promised you free gaming later on, you should like the all the FTP games now available in the market. You can start playing them instead of waiting for DF.
If you like DF for the features they listed, good. You have faith, and faith is not subjected to arguments. I do not and that also is closed subject, no discussions. We understand each other and we stop here. Right now DF is NOT a game in my understanding, so we both are talking off our head about something that to me does not yet exist. Why don't we start discussing the merits of building a colony on the sun. I can list a long pile of crap about how good the sun will be when we have the technology to convert it to a gaia. And in the same spirit of adventurine, I tell you now I already have the superior technology to convert the sun to an air-conditioned fertile land.
What are the long list of good things about living in my upcoming colony on the sun? For one, we have all the stupid people on earth rotating around us. For another, if you want to feel big, the sun is bigger than the earth. Oh big features .. it must be the best place to live, Starting packing up and wait for the shuttle to the sun.
After reading all these, you should have faith in me. You must have.
But the sole fact that this game will be refreshingly different from 90% of the games out there will give it the boost it needs. That's common sense.
How is a Sandbox PvP game based on ideas from 1999 "refreshingly different" ?
Darkfall is nothing more than a Shadowbane clone with Horses and boats floating around.
You are showing your ignorance here, and of top of thinking WoW is feature rich you have zero credibility Zero credibility to you and do you think we should listen to your view or to the millions who are too busy playing to crap talk here?. , and seem to fail to even be able to grasp the concepts involved here. Darkfall has been sepcifically developed to vater for all player types. Oh you know how DF is designed? just by reading the pile of text a salesman puts up on the web? Do you know how Bush plot his Iraq campaign as well?
Yes that is all player types. Not just PvP , too difficult a concept to understand I guess. But is you apply some logic and common sense you profess to have you may get it if you think about it. how do you know? or just claims, empty claims, unsubstantiated claims, just like all the big talks about DF. Words, words and more words. That is your game?
In absence of any solid evidence from the developer, exercising common sense is a good option. You can place your faith in DF, no one can dissuade you from that. Faith belongs to the church and is not a good basis for discussion.
It's sad that all the "100% sure it will fail" people will play the game if it comes out and have already signed for the beta. They're just fanbois afraid to get their e-peen hurt again like after DnL, Age of Mourning, Vanguard, Age of Conan...
It's sad that all the "100% sure it will fail" people will play the game if it comes out and have already signed for the beta. They're just fanbois afraid to get their e-peen hurt again like after DnL, Age of Mourning, Vanguard, Age of Conan...
But the sole fact that this game will be refreshingly different from 90% of the games out there will give it the boost it needs. That's common sense.
How is a Sandbox PvP game based on ideas from 1999 "refreshingly different" ?
Darkfall is nothing more than a Shadowbane clone with Horses and boats floating around.
Oh, for
FFS!
NOONE WANT's YOU IN DFO SO GO PLAY WOW WILL YOU?!
This is the infamous 'Darkfall troll' that we've been dealing with for years now in one form or another. Replies like yours just eggs him on so please just ignore this thread and any others he creates as it just encourages him. He has had many names here over the years as he gets banned a lot for starting these trolling flame fests. You guys may know him as Tweedle from the Warcry forums. We have just gotten used to him and can spot him quite easily as he always uses the same old tired arguments.
The news of Beta and the new vid must have thrown him a bit though as this is the first of his alt accounts we've seen here since that time. He's changed his tune a bit as his old 'vaporware' arguments are pretty much null and void now but his style is still the same. Just ignore him completely and he will go away to regroup for a while. I didn't want to reply in this thread but I think it's gone on for long enough.
The only thing that is a huge failure in this thread is Tweedle himself as he has no life but to troll Darkfall forums. You'd think Tasos ran over his dog or something the way he hates this game for no real reason.
It's sad that all the "100% sure it will fail" people will play the game if it comes out and have already signed for the beta. They're just fanbois afraid to get their e-peen hurt again like after DnL, Age of Mourning, Vanguard, Age of Conan...
When will it come out, and in what form?
public beta this year garrenteed
Nothing is guaranteed, and if you are going to bet your last underwear on this, I recommend you start collecting leaves and weaving a backup pair of pants.
Originally posted by TenSpotting Than what does that make Aventurine? A company full of complete amateur developers who have never launched a single product on the market that anyone knows of let alone a MMORPG that is (on paper) supposed to be as feature rich as Wow? (ya right)
"As feature rich as Wow"? you don't have a clue.. wow has nowhere near as many features..
When DFO hits you like a truckload, you will create another alt here on mmorpg.com and hide in shame, it is good that DFO went with SCS so cowards like you cannot make an alt and hide.
FFA-PVP/Full loot will hurt people like you, bad. And still you will be there playing..
Quoting this without reading anything else. I used to be interested in Darkfall. Literally 100% I will not buy it, now. It is so behind in everything, and I do not want to sit and play a game with few developers working on it (Vanguard, anyone?).
I'm only here out of curiosity. I can't stand people who claim "their" mmo to be a godsend.
Originally posted by TenSpotting Than what does that make Aventurine? A company full of complete amateur developers who have never launched a single product on the market that anyone knows of let alone a MMORPG that is (on paper) supposed to be as feature rich as Wow? (ya right)
"As feature rich as Wow"? you don't have a clue.. wow has nowhere near as many features..
When DFO hits you like a truckload, you will create another alt here on mmorpg.com and hide in shame, it is good that DFO went with SCS so cowards like you cannot make an alt and hide.
FFA-PVP/Full loot will hurt people like you, bad. And still you will be there playing..
Quoting this without reading anything else. I used to be interested in Darkfall. Literally 100% I will not buy it, now. It is so behind in everything, and I do not want to sit and play a game with few developers working on it (Vanguard, anyone?).
I'm only here out of curiosity. I can't stand people who claim "their" mmo to be a godsend.
theres 30 devs... or more and they dont really claim anything excpet its feature complete and the game will speak for it self
I can't believe anyone would even try to compare features in MMOs to WoW......
OBVIOUSLY if you think WoW has an amazing feature list, you haven't been playing MMOs for too long...
After repeating that empty statement for 10000 times are you not tired? Stop preaching one line bashing statement. Tell us what features are lacking that matters to you. Of the many things WoW implemented, how you do not like it.
Sandboxers are totally ridiculous and inconsistent people. They want a sandbox without restrictions, basically they just want a graphically painted world with nothing else so they can create their own content. Yet, when they run into the most popular MMO that scares the hell out of their chicken minds, they criticise WoW on what grounds? Lacking features?
WoW is the game right now with the largest followers. On the ground of equality of human beings, you are only 1 Mr Nobody and 10 million other Mr Nobody's have picked their choice. If you do not like WoW, leave. That is 1 vote against 10 million votes, each and every vote equally important. If I am a politician I will tend to respect the views of 10 million, if I am a business man I will more likely try to bid for the market of the 10 million. Because of what? because you are just a single Mr Nobody making a lot of noises trying to pretend to be bigger than what you actually are. But the mirror will not lie. Take a look at it.
I can't believe anyone would even try to compare features in MMOs to WoW......
OBVIOUSLY if you think WoW has an amazing feature list, you haven't been playing MMOs for too long...
After repeating that empty statement for 10000 times are you not tired? Stop preaching one line bashing statement. Tell us what features are lacking that matters to you. Of the many things WoW implemented, how you do not like it.
Sandboxers are totally ridiculous and inconsistent people. They want a sandbox without restrictions, basically they just want a graphically painted world with nothing else so they can create their own content. Yet, when they run into the most popular MMO that scares the hell out of their chicken minds, they criticise WoW on what grounds? Lacking features?
WoW is the game right now with the largest followers. On the ground of equality of human beings, you are only 1 Mr Nobody and 10 million other Mr Nobody's have picked their choice. If you do not like WoW, leave. That is 1 vote against 10 million votes, each and every vote equally important. If I am a politician I will tend to respect the views of 10 million, if I am a business man I will more likely try to bid for the market of the 10 million. Because of what? because you are just a single Mr Nobody making a lot of noises trying to pretend to be bigger than what you actually are. But the mirror will not lie. Take a look at it.
To be perfectly fair, trying to emulate WoW at this time is probably a poor investment strategy for many companies because the market is saturated at the moment with WoW style games that have already been done very well. It probably makes more business sense to try and appeal to a more nitch market at the moment because pulling players away from WoW, WAR, and LotR is very hard to do.
Also, since you asked, I figured I'd list some of the features of WoW that I feel need improvement...
1. The high end equipment grind - I'll admit I like the storylines in many of the WoW quests, but at the higher levels I find I have to participate in the same quests over and over again to obtain the gear I need to advance to the upper most level. This isn't so much a problem below level 40 as you can get by doing the quests for those levels once and many are written well enough to draw you into the story. It's also nice that most races / classes have their own quests, giving the lower levels some variety and re-playability. However, past level 40 the content is shared and can be very repetative.
2. The Economy - There are very few crafting skills that feel particularly useful in the game. I rarely sell items to other players, and I use the items I craft only slightly more often. Most of the impressive gear is looted or rewarded for quests. The only real benefit to crafting is to make a little extra coin selling off crafted items instead of resources to NPC's. To be honest, the crafting / economy aspect of WoW feels more like a waste of time than an enjoyable feature. The better half of the crafting skills are next to useless.
3. Mounts - This again feels like a largely useless feature, save for the advantage of being able to blow by mobs to get where you're going faster. The mounts in this game do little more than look cool. Even the novelty of the flying creatures wears off fairly quickly. Including a mounted combat system would have made this feature more interesting for at least a little longer, and could have made the feature an important element in Race vs Race or Battlefield PvP.
4. PvP - I'll admit that this can be an enjoyable rush in a fair, or even mostly fair fight, but if you consider that it is mechanically impossible for some players to compete against others that they encounter, then you must admit that there's something broken in the system. Huge level gaps just aren't fun for the player with the lower character level. A gap of more than ten levels couldn't even be considered a difficult challenge for the lower level character as the victory of the higher level character is practically assured even if he does nothing but use the auto-attack.
5. Player housing / Guild Cities - They don't exist in WoW. Some people don't mind that but this is a feature that I have highly enjoyed in the games that have included it and it's a feature that I look for in any MMO that I play. A good system allows guilds to compete over control of land and resources in a way that makes Guild vs Guild combat meaningful, but even a basic system lets players take a slightly larger measure of ownership in the world.
Now there are things that WoW does well. Like I said before, the quests are some of the best I've seen out of the industry, and the graphics, while somewhat dated now, are well suited to the beautiful art style of the game. The theme park has a very coheasive feel; nothing seems to be amiss and everything seems to fit, from the story to the music, to the visuals. For a themepark, WoW is a solid game, but it doesn't compare to Darkfall... Not because of the superiority of Darkfall, but because both games are trying to be something very different.
I can't believe anyone would even try to compare features in MMOs to WoW......
OBVIOUSLY if you think WoW has an amazing feature list, you haven't been playing MMOs for too long...
After repeating that empty statement for 10000 times are you not tired? Stop preaching one line bashing statement. Tell us what features are lacking that matters to you. Of the many things WoW implemented, how you do not like it.
Sandboxers are totally ridiculous and inconsistent people. They want a sandbox without restrictions, basically they just want a graphically painted world with nothing else so they can create their own content. Yet, when they run into the most popular MMO that scares the hell out of their chicken minds, they criticise WoW on what grounds? Lacking features?
WoW is the game right now with the largest followers. On the ground of equality of human beings, you are only 1 Mr Nobody and 10 million other Mr Nobody's have picked their choice. If you do not like WoW, leave. That is 1 vote against 10 million votes, each and every vote equally important. If I am a politician I will tend to respect the views of 10 million, if I am a business man I will more likely try to bid for the market of the 10 million. Because of what? because you are just a single Mr Nobody making a lot of noises trying to pretend to be bigger than what you actually are. But the mirror will not lie. Take a look at it.
Raids? PvP? (Heroic) Dungeons? Crafting? Pretty much the feature list of World of Warcraft.
What's there to scare me? I've played it since day one, and I'm not afraid to say that I enjoyed it, for the most part. It didn't scare me. Except if you're confusing fear with boredom. If that's the case, I would point you to an online dictionary.
And "Sandboxers are totally ridiculous and incosistent people"? They are inconsistent because they don't like a theme-park game? Again, check the dictionary. I would say that is the epitome of consistency. If it wasn't, you could just say something like:
"Theme-parkers are ridiculous and inconsistent people. They want a theme-park with restrictions, basicaly they want painted boobs. Yet when they run into total freedom, they criticize <enter sandbox game here> for what? Lacking content/boobs?" Yup, that's consinstent!?
And who the hell cares for the 10 million people playing World of Warcraft? Suddenly quantity>quality? As far as I'm concerned, for myself, playing a game that has 100k subscribers and one that has 10.000k, is more or less the same thing. I don't care what the company thinks, it will probably mean nothing to me. Is that so hard to understand? Just because more people play the game, will it suddenly become a better one for me? Or does it mean that the popular choice is the best one? In high school the most popular choices most of the time are full of diseases.
It's sad that all the "100% sure it will fail" people will play the game if it comes out and have already signed for the beta. They're just fanbois afraid to get their e-peen hurt again like after DnL, Age of Mourning, Vanguard, Age of Conan...
I can't believe anyone would even try to compare features in MMOs to WoW......
OBVIOUSLY if you think WoW has an amazing feature list, you haven't been playing MMOs for too long...
Originally posted by Orthedos
After repeating that empty statement for 10000 times are you not tired? Stop preaching one line bashing statement. Tell us what features are lacking that matters to you. Of the many things WoW implemented, how you do not like it.
Sandboxers are totally ridiculous and inconsistent people. They want a sandbox without restrictions, basically they just want a graphically painted world with nothing else so they can create their own content. Yet, when they run into the most popular MMO that scares the hell out of their chicken minds, they criticise WoW on what grounds? Lacking features?
WoW is the game right now with the largest followers. On the ground of equality of human beings, you are only 1 Mr Nobody and 10 million other Mr Nobody's have picked their choice. If you do not like WoW, leave. That is 1 vote against 10 million votes, each and every vote equally important. If I am a politician I will tend to respect the views of 10 million, if I am a business man I will more likely try to bid for the market of the 10 million. Because of what? because you are just a single Mr Nobody making a lot of noises trying to pretend to be bigger than what you actually are. But the mirror will not lie. Take a look at it.
You can not mistake quality for user friendly. The reason WoW is so popular is because of the following.
1) System requirements. This was a marketing strategy, Unlike most other MMO's barely any data seems to be stored on your comp. Like 90% seems to be stored on the server. They did a good job with this.
2) Easy to Play. This drew in alot of players because well, Even William Shatner can play it oO lol. There's not alot of skill involved which for alot of people feels to over simplified. While that number may seem small in comparison it is still a large number considering the number of people playing other MMO's.
3) The combined IP. World of Warcraft is a combination of Warcraft and Warhammer. You may get upset here so I will explain. Blizzard came to the folks that owned Warhammer and asked to make an MMO based on there concepts. Warhammer owners said no. Blizzard did anyways but changing it enough that they couldn't be sued. Warhammer haters now say it is a WoW clone but in fact it is the opposite WoW just released first after stealing idea's to some extent.
4) Mass marketing and special attention to different markets. They have one of the largest Marketing campaignes I've ever seen for a MMO. In order to have never heard of WoW you would have to be living in a cave some where out in the middle of a desert. Secondly there special attention to different markets. WoW has reached out to the Asian market by letting people pay for time vs. a set monthly fee. Monthly fee MMO's never reach a high Asian population in general since the majority have limited internet usage. You get an allotment of internet time.
And lastly the majority of WoW players when asked why they play WoW do not say it's a great game. They usualy answer "Because most of my friends play".
I do give credit to WoW for bringing more attention to the MMORPG genre. It has been neglected by a large portion of gamers due to many miconseptions. WoW has all but destroyed the wall between MMORPG gamers and gamers in general. So this I thank them for. Thank you for getting Investors, non mmorpg gamers, other publishing companies interested in MMORPG's.
Never had an WoW ingame experience but only what others talk about it and from that i dont like it.
Nevertheless i have respect for the company and i like Blizzard. I like that fact they did only sell what they developed and its all selfmade (well the biggest pieces). So i liked their RTS and Diablo. It was always authentical and professional work.
Have that said i see much in aventurine that wants to go the same difficult path. Selfmade, indipendend, authentic. If it fails then sure with thiers head held high.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Aventurine's spent 10 million Euros already. That's more than 10 mil dollars. In fact they borrowed 20 mil euros last year. The fail troll is fail.
No sorry but they did not borrow 20 million Euros last year. They issued a convertible bond loan to try and sell convertible bonds. Do you even know what that is? Obviously not. It means you place up bonds for purchase, of course people have to actually "BUY" your bonds first.
They DID NOT get any kind a money loan. If you had any interest in "FACTS" and "TRUTH" rather than living in your Darkfall dream world for the last 7 years you would of known that already.
Yes I am "Fail Troll" because I pointed out the obvious uphill battle that this thing is going to face IF it ever actually sees the light of day. Hilarious. Which is still HEAVILY in question 3 months before it's supposed to launch..
The only failure I see here is you for pulling numbers straight out of your ass and trying to pass it off as fact when in reality there is nothing anywhere that says how much Aventurine spent on developing this.
Are you seriously that hung up over this thing that you turn a blind eye to ANYTHING that points out it's tons of faults?
Heres a REALITY CHECK:
This game has yet to show that 95% of it's feature list even EXISTS and it's launching in 3 months?
Not even at this point has any credible editor even played this game or been invited to play and report on it publically. I wonder why???
I mean damn.. if it's so freakin A-mazing you would think that they would have every editor and gaming mag reporting on it 24/7 this close to a launch.
I see no pre launch hype.. all I see is more bullshit from the fanboys and the same from the devs.
are you seriously that hung up on this thing that you feel the need to proclaim its 'imminent failure' so vigorously?
here's a question, if you believe its going to fail hard, thats cool...everyone is entitled to their own opinion...but why post so much about it? why do you feel you need to preach your opinion like a 12th century christian?
if it's good, great, if it fails, boo hoo, but seriously leave the darkfall forums for discussion about the upcoming game by those who are interested in it instead of preaching your vapor theories ad infinitum
Originally posted by ferghal if it's good, great, if it fails, boo hoo, but seriously leave the darkfall forums for discussion about the upcoming game by those who are interested in it instead of preaching your vapor theories ad infinitum
That's what the official forums are for. For the fanboys. Fanboys don't belong here if they can't handle truth that paints a less than rosy picture of their beloved project.
This place allows for both sides of a discussion. Not just "Darkfall has more features than World of Warcraft because I said so and I want it to be like that so it must be!"
I've never seen such blatent stupidity that this project has surrounding it in my life.
Originally posted by ferghal if it's good, great, if it fails, boo hoo, but seriously leave the darkfall forums for discussion about the upcoming game by those who are interested in it instead of preaching your vapor theories ad infinitum
That's what the official forums are for. For the fanboys. Fanboys don't belong here if they can't handle truth that paints a less than rosy picture of their beloved project.
This place allows for both sides of a discussion. Not just "Darkfall has more features than World of Warcraft because I said so and I want it to be like that so it must be!"
I've never seen such blatent stupidity that this project has surrounding it in my life.
you should encapsulate your thoughts around your trolling crusade here if you want to witness stupidity at its finest...
all this effort for 0 tangible reward, i wonder why you do it...hmm
Comments
Ok since you continualy argue that DarkFall is not feature complete you must have played it. I am of course assuming this since the basis for your arguement is that since he hasn't played it he can't know that it is feature complete I would assume that you would fall under the same requirements. If you havent played DarkFall then you can not say it isn't feature complete. We are of course going based on the word of those Developing the game itself and probably have a better view point than you do, meaning they actual know whats in and whats not unlike you.
Having said that the feature list of DarkFall far surpases WoW's. If they only manage to deliver on half of the list they still Surpase WoW's features. Considering the only thing we have to go by at the moment is the Devs saying DarkFall is feature complete we have to take it as it stands for now until someone has some proof to the contrary. I don't mean opinions from those they have not seen it but actual proof.
Yeah....and when people called others idiotic fanbois when saying that about AoC and FunCom, that was justified...because? Seriously. Most of the people hyping this game have bashed other games as trash more than once, even before release. And you are surprised DF gets the same treatment? Considering there is far LESS to show for DF than there was for AoC (and look how that turned out) or for WAR?
All we have is the word of the developers. some people choose to have faith in that, others do not. Both are valid points. To say it -WILL- fail or it -WILL- succeed on the other hand, are both not valid.
Well considering the past history of FC, you know with Anarchy online and them basicaly repeating what they said then and failing to deliver yet again.... . They ignored us........ The beta forums were wiped alongf with all the complaints and topics about the numerous exclusions . They released and lied lied lied there way to the bank. This isn't a new tactic by FC. DarkFall doesn't have this reputation. Nor have they had a multi-million dollar add campaing. There even putting there money where there mouth is. They want you to try it for FREE before buying it. Not a free trial a year or 2 down the road, a free trial before any of us spends one dime on it. No forced pre-orders to help generate false hype.
The actions FC and EA take while promoting a game always put me on the defensive because they have shady buissness tactics. Aventurine doesn't have that history with me. It's a new company that seems to be attempting to do right by it's players. EA nor FC can say they do right by there players. They do a money grab first then try and keep who they have left. 50-60$ x 800,000 box sales = nice sum to add to there bank accounts. Did all those players stay? no. DId atleast most stay? no. Why? because it was a money grab. Convience as many people to buy it before they try it so that even if they don't like it you get a box sale out of them.
That doesn't seem to me to be what Aventurine is about. So far they have been pretty straight up with the community. They don't communicate on a daily or even weekly basis, seems they try though. But they havent out right lied to us yet.
On a side not FC's Dx10 2 days before launch post was bull. Yes it was done in time to say they warned us. But it wasn't in time for most of us to even know about them saying it. So they wanted the DX10 hype without actually having DX10. More shadey chit.
...OK, maybe we have differing opinions on what qualifies as trust for a company. I'm sorry, I can't see good reason to trust Aventurine more than say Mythic. They haven't screwed up in the past you say...well, that's mainly because they haven't presented much yet, have they? A load of screenshots...and a few videos.
They had a Beta-Date they missed (yes yes, I'm not going to get into the discussion of how many there were, most people seem to agree however that there was -ONE- date they missed). They have promised a lot of things, but haven't shown any evidence for it. They have not let anyone touch their game, save for some obscure people who later wrote articles about it which are less than informative since basically, they only repeat the Dev-Blogs.
Yes, they don#t have a history of screwing up a launch, obviously. But does that suddenly give them some kind of bonus? Does that mean they are immune to the possibility of failure? No. It does not. But some people seem to think so.
It's really getting sort of frustrating to correspond with DF supporters (well, many of them anyway). Simply because they won#t hear -any- sort of criticism about their game, nor any legitimate worries. Yes, they are legitimate, because there have been other games that have promised a lot and have not delivered (and not just by "FailCom"). That, coupled with a above average Development cycle and very little media/evidence on the game makes people wonder. Is that -SO- hard to understand?
They haven't missed any official dates yet. This has been avoided by proper wording. But is a mute point. I have no problem with Mythic but they are owned by EA and EA had plenty of bad history for me atleast and alot of other UO players. Point is I bashed your bash on someone else who was bashing a bash made by someone else lol. It's all rather pointless. I trust Aventurine to the extent im waiting for the release of DarkFall. I believe the features they have said will be in will in fact be in. I base this trust on the what seems to be there current buisness practice. They won't be charging me to try the game. If they did lie like the fore mentioned companies it won't cost me 50-60$ to find that out. So it really serves them less purpose in doing the same lying the other companies have. I trust Aventurine because honestly they won't gain one thing by lying to me if they let me try the game for free before buying it.
FC did not do this. They lied and charged you for the knowledge they did.
Even EA didn't give beta Access to Warhammer without a pre-order.
So the other companies charge you to find out, while Aventurine is going to show us for free.
See why I trust Aventurine on this? Because I lose nothing by doing so. Neither do you or anyone else that wants to bash on fans or ect.
If they fail to deliver no one is out of pocket to find this out so it's no where near the same as the money grab companies. If I trusted FC which many did they were out 50-60$ to find out they were lied to.
Argue all you want about how DarkFall will suck or fail or be vaporware but the point is it isn't going to cost any of us a penny to find out. So chill , wait and see.
I do not speak for anyone, only myself.
I do not speak ill of DF, I just do not trust the game developers so far. In as much as you have godly faith in them, I am skeptical. Its a judgment.
I hardly care for DF as a game, as it stands to me its nothing but a pile of words. I am not going to enjoy a game in the form of reading the descriptions. So far I am here b/c some of the discussions here are pretty absurd. Like comparing the wishlist of DF against actualy features of WoW or EQ or WAR and telling us how DF is supposed to be superior. No you should compare DF to Bible and you will know that heaven is superior.
You trust adventurine b/c they promised you a free trial. Sorry to put it this way, its cheap. I am willing to put up $1 to preorder and try out WAR. $1 is affordable. If you like DF b/c they promised you free gaming later on, you should like the all the FTP games now available in the market. You can start playing them instead of waiting for DF.
If you like DF for the features they listed, good. You have faith, and faith is not subjected to arguments. I do not and that also is closed subject, no discussions. We understand each other and we stop here. Right now DF is NOT a game in my understanding, so we both are talking off our head about something that to me does not yet exist. Why don't we start discussing the merits of building a colony on the sun. I can list a long pile of crap about how good the sun will be when we have the technology to convert it to a gaia. And in the same spirit of adventurine, I tell you now I already have the superior technology to convert the sun to an air-conditioned fertile land.
What are the long list of good things about living in my upcoming colony on the sun? For one, we have all the stupid people on earth rotating around us. For another, if you want to feel big, the sun is bigger than the earth. Oh big features .. it must be the best place to live, Starting packing up and wait for the shuttle to the sun.
After reading all these, you should have faith in me. You must have.
How is a Sandbox PvP game based on ideas from 1999 "refreshingly different" ?
Darkfall is nothing more than a Shadowbane clone with Horses and boats floating around.
You are showing your ignorance here, and of top of thinking WoW is feature rich you have zero credibility Zero credibility to you and do you think we should listen to your view or to the millions who are too busy playing to crap talk here?. , and seem to fail to even be able to grasp the concepts involved here. Darkfall has been sepcifically developed to vater for all player types. Oh you know how DF is designed? just by reading the pile of text a salesman puts up on the web? Do you know how Bush plot his Iraq campaign as well?
Yes that is all player types. Not just PvP , too difficult a concept to understand I guess. But is you apply some logic and common sense you profess to have you may get it if you think about it. how do you know? or just claims, empty claims, unsubstantiated claims, just like all the big talks about DF. Words, words and more words. That is your game?
In absence of any solid evidence from the developer, exercising common sense is a good option. You can place your faith in DF, no one can dissuade you from that. Faith belongs to the church and is not a good basis for discussion.
So, from your point of view, its impossible to discuss any game during its development? gg
True, all Darkfall got atm is Screenshots, Videos and developer talk. But you won't get more from any game out there before the beta starts.
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Societas Daemonica
When will it come out, and in what form?
When will it come out, and in what form?
public beta this year garrenteed
Great to see that Darkfall having such an inpact on people I cant wait for it to come out.
Stopped reading right there.
How is a Sandbox PvP game based on ideas from 1999 "refreshingly different" ?
Darkfall is nothing more than a Shadowbane clone with Horses and boats floating around.
Oh, for
FFS!
NOONE WANT's YOU IN DFO SO GO PLAY WOW WILL YOU?!
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I have nothing clever to say.
How is a Sandbox PvP game based on ideas from 1999 "refreshingly different" ?
Darkfall is nothing more than a Shadowbane clone with Horses and boats floating around.
Oh, for
FFS!
NOONE WANT's YOU IN DFO SO GO PLAY WOW WILL YOU?!
This is the infamous 'Darkfall troll' that we've been dealing with for years now in one form or another. Replies like yours just eggs him on so please just ignore this thread and any others he creates as it just encourages him. He has had many names here over the years as he gets banned a lot for starting these trolling flame fests. You guys may know him as Tweedle from the Warcry forums. We have just gotten used to him and can spot him quite easily as he always uses the same old tired arguments.
The news of Beta and the new vid must have thrown him a bit though as this is the first of his alt accounts we've seen here since that time. He's changed his tune a bit as his old 'vaporware' arguments are pretty much null and void now but his style is still the same. Just ignore him completely and he will go away to regroup for a while. I didn't want to reply in this thread but I think it's gone on for long enough.
The only thing that is a huge failure in this thread is Tweedle himself as he has no life but to troll Darkfall forums. You'd think Tasos ran over his dog or something the way he hates this game for no real reason.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
When will it come out, and in what form?
public beta this year garrenteed
Nothing is guaranteed, and if you are going to bet your last underwear on this, I recommend you start collecting leaves and weaving a backup pair of pants.
I can't believe anyone would even try to compare features in MMOs to WoW......
OBVIOUSLY if you think WoW has an amazing feature list, you haven't been playing MMOs for too long...
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
"As feature rich as Wow"? you don't have a clue.. wow has nowhere near as many features..
When DFO hits you like a truckload, you will create another alt here on mmorpg.com and hide in shame, it is good that DFO went with SCS so cowards like you cannot make an alt and hide.
FFA-PVP/Full loot will hurt people like you, bad. And still you will be there playing..
Quoting this without reading anything else. I used to be interested in Darkfall. Literally 100% I will not buy it, now. It is so behind in everything, and I do not want to sit and play a game with few developers working on it (Vanguard, anyone?).
I'm only here out of curiosity. I can't stand people who claim "their" mmo to be a godsend.
-Computer specs no one cares about: check.
-MMOs played no one cares about: check.
-Xfire stats no one cares about: check.
-Signature no one cares about: check.
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-Narcissism: check.
"As feature rich as Wow"? you don't have a clue.. wow has nowhere near as many features..
When DFO hits you like a truckload, you will create another alt here on mmorpg.com and hide in shame, it is good that DFO went with SCS so cowards like you cannot make an alt and hide.
FFA-PVP/Full loot will hurt people like you, bad. And still you will be there playing..
Quoting this without reading anything else. I used to be interested in Darkfall. Literally 100% I will not buy it, now. It is so behind in everything, and I do not want to sit and play a game with few developers working on it (Vanguard, anyone?).
I'm only here out of curiosity. I can't stand people who claim "their" mmo to be a godsend.
theres 30 devs... or more and they dont really claim anything excpet its feature complete and the game will speak for it self
if the game is good why the hell does it matter?
After repeating that empty statement for 10000 times are you not tired? Stop preaching one line bashing statement. Tell us what features are lacking that matters to you. Of the many things WoW implemented, how you do not like it.
Sandboxers are totally ridiculous and inconsistent people. They want a sandbox without restrictions, basically they just want a graphically painted world with nothing else so they can create their own content. Yet, when they run into the most popular MMO that scares the hell out of their chicken minds, they criticise WoW on what grounds? Lacking features?
WoW is the game right now with the largest followers. On the ground of equality of human beings, you are only 1 Mr Nobody and 10 million other Mr Nobody's have picked their choice. If you do not like WoW, leave. That is 1 vote against 10 million votes, each and every vote equally important. If I am a politician I will tend to respect the views of 10 million, if I am a business man I will more likely try to bid for the market of the 10 million. Because of what? because you are just a single Mr Nobody making a lot of noises trying to pretend to be bigger than what you actually are. But the mirror will not lie. Take a look at it.
After repeating that empty statement for 10000 times are you not tired? Stop preaching one line bashing statement. Tell us what features are lacking that matters to you. Of the many things WoW implemented, how you do not like it.
Sandboxers are totally ridiculous and inconsistent people. They want a sandbox without restrictions, basically they just want a graphically painted world with nothing else so they can create their own content. Yet, when they run into the most popular MMO that scares the hell out of their chicken minds, they criticise WoW on what grounds? Lacking features?
WoW is the game right now with the largest followers. On the ground of equality of human beings, you are only 1 Mr Nobody and 10 million other Mr Nobody's have picked their choice. If you do not like WoW, leave. That is 1 vote against 10 million votes, each and every vote equally important. If I am a politician I will tend to respect the views of 10 million, if I am a business man I will more likely try to bid for the market of the 10 million. Because of what? because you are just a single Mr Nobody making a lot of noises trying to pretend to be bigger than what you actually are. But the mirror will not lie. Take a look at it.
To be perfectly fair, trying to emulate WoW at this time is probably a poor investment strategy for many companies because the market is saturated at the moment with WoW style games that have already been done very well. It probably makes more business sense to try and appeal to a more nitch market at the moment because pulling players away from WoW, WAR, and LotR is very hard to do.
Also, since you asked, I figured I'd list some of the features of WoW that I feel need improvement...
1. The high end equipment grind - I'll admit I like the storylines in many of the WoW quests, but at the higher levels I find I have to participate in the same quests over and over again to obtain the gear I need to advance to the upper most level. This isn't so much a problem below level 40 as you can get by doing the quests for those levels once and many are written well enough to draw you into the story. It's also nice that most races / classes have their own quests, giving the lower levels some variety and re-playability. However, past level 40 the content is shared and can be very repetative.
2. The Economy - There are very few crafting skills that feel particularly useful in the game. I rarely sell items to other players, and I use the items I craft only slightly more often. Most of the impressive gear is looted or rewarded for quests. The only real benefit to crafting is to make a little extra coin selling off crafted items instead of resources to NPC's. To be honest, the crafting / economy aspect of WoW feels more like a waste of time than an enjoyable feature. The better half of the crafting skills are next to useless.
3. Mounts - This again feels like a largely useless feature, save for the advantage of being able to blow by mobs to get where you're going faster. The mounts in this game do little more than look cool. Even the novelty of the flying creatures wears off fairly quickly. Including a mounted combat system would have made this feature more interesting for at least a little longer, and could have made the feature an important element in Race vs Race or Battlefield PvP.
4. PvP - I'll admit that this can be an enjoyable rush in a fair, or even mostly fair fight, but if you consider that it is mechanically impossible for some players to compete against others that they encounter, then you must admit that there's something broken in the system. Huge level gaps just aren't fun for the player with the lower character level. A gap of more than ten levels couldn't even be considered a difficult challenge for the lower level character as the victory of the higher level character is practically assured even if he does nothing but use the auto-attack.
5. Player housing / Guild Cities - They don't exist in WoW. Some people don't mind that but this is a feature that I have highly enjoyed in the games that have included it and it's a feature that I look for in any MMO that I play. A good system allows guilds to compete over control of land and resources in a way that makes Guild vs Guild combat meaningful, but even a basic system lets players take a slightly larger measure of ownership in the world.
Now there are things that WoW does well. Like I said before, the quests are some of the best I've seen out of the industry, and the graphics, while somewhat dated now, are well suited to the beautiful art style of the game. The theme park has a very coheasive feel; nothing seems to be amiss and everything seems to fit, from the story to the music, to the visuals. For a themepark, WoW is a solid game, but it doesn't compare to Darkfall... Not because of the superiority of Darkfall, but because both games are trying to be something very different.
Nostradamus of games...
Just like how UO failed.
After repeating that empty statement for 10000 times are you not tired? Stop preaching one line bashing statement. Tell us what features are lacking that matters to you. Of the many things WoW implemented, how you do not like it.
Sandboxers are totally ridiculous and inconsistent people. They want a sandbox without restrictions, basically they just want a graphically painted world with nothing else so they can create their own content. Yet, when they run into the most popular MMO that scares the hell out of their chicken minds, they criticise WoW on what grounds? Lacking features?
WoW is the game right now with the largest followers. On the ground of equality of human beings, you are only 1 Mr Nobody and 10 million other Mr Nobody's have picked their choice. If you do not like WoW, leave. That is 1 vote against 10 million votes, each and every vote equally important. If I am a politician I will tend to respect the views of 10 million, if I am a business man I will more likely try to bid for the market of the 10 million. Because of what? because you are just a single Mr Nobody making a lot of noises trying to pretend to be bigger than what you actually are. But the mirror will not lie. Take a look at it.
Raids? PvP? (Heroic) Dungeons? Crafting? Pretty much the feature list of World of Warcraft.
What's there to scare me? I've played it since day one, and I'm not afraid to say that I enjoyed it, for the most part. It didn't scare me. Except if you're confusing fear with boredom. If that's the case, I would point you to an online dictionary.
And "Sandboxers are totally ridiculous and incosistent people"? They are inconsistent because they don't like a theme-park game? Again, check the dictionary. I would say that is the epitome of consistency. If it wasn't, you could just say something like:
"Theme-parkers are ridiculous and inconsistent people. They want a theme-park with restrictions, basicaly they want painted boobs. Yet when they run into total freedom, they criticize <enter sandbox game here> for what? Lacking content/boobs?" Yup, that's consinstent!?
And who the hell cares for the 10 million people playing World of Warcraft? Suddenly quantity>quality? As far as I'm concerned, for myself, playing a game that has 100k subscribers and one that has 10.000k, is more or less the same thing. I don't care what the company thinks, it will probably mean nothing to me. Is that so hard to understand? Just because more people play the game, will it suddenly become a better one for me? Or does it mean that the popular choice is the best one? In high school the most popular choices most of the time are full of diseases.
When will it come out, and in what form?
public beta this year garrenteed
Originally posted by demalus
I can't believe anyone would even try to compare features in MMOs to WoW......
OBVIOUSLY if you think WoW has an amazing feature list, you haven't been playing MMOs for too long...
Originally posted by Orthedos
After repeating that empty statement for 10000 times are you not tired? Stop preaching one line bashing statement. Tell us what features are lacking that matters to you. Of the many things WoW implemented, how you do not like it.
Sandboxers are totally ridiculous and inconsistent people. They want a sandbox without restrictions, basically they just want a graphically painted world with nothing else so they can create their own content. Yet, when they run into the most popular MMO that scares the hell out of their chicken minds, they criticise WoW on what grounds? Lacking features?
WoW is the game right now with the largest followers. On the ground of equality of human beings, you are only 1 Mr Nobody and 10 million other Mr Nobody's have picked their choice. If you do not like WoW, leave. That is 1 vote against 10 million votes, each and every vote equally important. If I am a politician I will tend to respect the views of 10 million, if I am a business man I will more likely try to bid for the market of the 10 million. Because of what? because you are just a single Mr Nobody making a lot of noises trying to pretend to be bigger than what you actually are. But the mirror will not lie. Take a look at it.
You can not mistake quality for user friendly. The reason WoW is so popular is because of the following.
1) System requirements. This was a marketing strategy, Unlike most other MMO's barely any data seems to be stored on your comp. Like 90% seems to be stored on the server. They did a good job with this.
2) Easy to Play. This drew in alot of players because well, Even William Shatner can play it oO lol. There's not alot of skill involved which for alot of people feels to over simplified. While that number may seem small in comparison it is still a large number considering the number of people playing other MMO's.
3) The combined IP. World of Warcraft is a combination of Warcraft and Warhammer. You may get upset here so I will explain. Blizzard came to the folks that owned Warhammer and asked to make an MMO based on there concepts. Warhammer owners said no. Blizzard did anyways but changing it enough that they couldn't be sued. Warhammer haters now say it is a WoW clone but in fact it is the opposite WoW just released first after stealing idea's to some extent.
4) Mass marketing and special attention to different markets. They have one of the largest Marketing campaignes I've ever seen for a MMO. In order to have never heard of WoW you would have to be living in a cave some where out in the middle of a desert. Secondly there special attention to different markets. WoW has reached out to the Asian market by letting people pay for time vs. a set monthly fee. Monthly fee MMO's never reach a high Asian population in general since the majority have limited internet usage. You get an allotment of internet time.
And lastly the majority of WoW players when asked why they play WoW do not say it's a great game. They usualy answer "Because most of my friends play".
I do give credit to WoW for bringing more attention to the MMORPG genre. It has been neglected by a large portion of gamers due to many miconseptions. WoW has all but destroyed the wall between MMORPG gamers and gamers in general. So this I thank them for. Thank you for getting Investors, non mmorpg gamers, other publishing companies interested in MMORPG's.
Will I play WoW? No lol.
Will I play Warhammer? No .
Never had an WoW ingame experience but only what others talk about it and from that i dont like it.
Nevertheless i have respect for the company and i like Blizzard. I like that fact they did only sell what they developed and its all selfmade (well the biggest pieces). So i liked their RTS and Diablo. It was always authentical and professional work.
Have that said i see much in aventurine that wants to go the same difficult path. Selfmade, indipendend, authentic. If it fails then sure with thiers head held high.
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$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
I'm not going to read this whole thread to find if this's already been said to the fail troll that started this fail thread, but here goes:
"We needed 2.5 million to produce camelot" etc. etc., hard to produce without that kind of money, etc etc.
Aventurine's spent 10 million Euros already. That's more than 10 mil dollars. In fact they borrowed 20 mil euros last year.
The fail troll is fail.
No sorry but they did not borrow 20 million Euros last year. They issued a convertible bond loan to try and sell convertible bonds. Do you even know what that is? Obviously not. It means you place up bonds for purchase, of course people have to actually "BUY" your bonds first.
They DID NOT get any kind a money loan. If you had any interest in "FACTS" and "TRUTH" rather than living in your Darkfall dream world for the last 7 years you would of known that already.
Yes I am "Fail Troll" because I pointed out the obvious uphill battle that this thing is going to face IF it ever actually sees the light of day. Hilarious. Which is still HEAVILY in question 3 months before it's supposed to launch..
The only failure I see here is you for pulling numbers straight out of your ass and trying to pass it off as fact when in reality there is nothing anywhere that says how much Aventurine spent on developing this.
Are you seriously that hung up over this thing that you turn a blind eye to ANYTHING that points out it's tons of faults?
Heres a REALITY CHECK:
This game has yet to show that 95% of it's feature list even EXISTS and it's launching in 3 months?
Not even at this point has any credible editor even played this game or been invited to play and report on it publically. I wonder why???
I mean damn.. if it's so freakin A-mazing you would think that they would have every editor and gaming mag reporting on it 24/7 this close to a launch.
I see no pre launch hype.. all I see is more bullshit from the fanboys and the same from the devs.
are you seriously that hung up on this thing that you feel the need to proclaim its 'imminent failure' so vigorously?
here's a question, if you believe its going to fail hard, thats cool...everyone is entitled to their own opinion...but why post so much about it? why do you feel you need to preach your opinion like a 12th century christian?
if it's good, great, if it fails, boo hoo, but seriously leave the darkfall forums for discussion about the upcoming game by those who are interested in it instead of preaching your vapor theories ad infinitum
That's what the official forums are for. For the fanboys. Fanboys don't belong here if they can't handle truth that paints a less than rosy picture of their beloved project.
This place allows for both sides of a discussion. Not just "Darkfall has more features than World of Warcraft because I said so and I want it to be like that so it must be!"
I've never seen such blatent stupidity that this project has surrounding it in my life.
That's what the official forums are for. For the fanboys. Fanboys don't belong here if they can't handle truth that paints a less than rosy picture of their beloved project.
This place allows for both sides of a discussion. Not just "Darkfall has more features than World of Warcraft because I said so and I want it to be like that so it must be!"
I've never seen such blatent stupidity that this project has surrounding it in my life.
you should encapsulate your thoughts around your trolling crusade here if you want to witness stupidity at its finest...
all this effort for 0 tangible reward, i wonder why you do it...hmm