well after reading 8 pages of this.. i think i am gonna quit reading about future up coming games.. WOW (not the game).. umm i preordered EQ2 and i still can't wait for it to come out! I have only played one other MMORPG and that was SWG and altho it did lack content and was rather boring after awhile.. i played it for over a year.. and now looking back at it.. i had fun. it could of been alot more fun but oh well! i guess seeing that this topic was called no open beta i should talk about that. umm.. it is no biggy to me either way.
I just got one question tho. why do people have to always bitch about stuff. why can't anyone ever come out and say OMG EQ2 IS COMING OUT AND I AM PUMPED UP! it always has to be something bad about everything.
All this talk about SoE being greedy and trying to hide a unfinished game is well hilarious. Ok well Greedy (meaning they want the most money for their product) hmm arent SoE a business? or better yet arent they human wouldnt you like to get paid more for doing the same job??? If the demand is there and people are buying it at 15$ a month and they whine abit but still keep buying it at 20$ a month wouldnt you keep charging 20$ a month dont say no because youll be lying to yourself and not fooling anyone else.
Now the release of SWG that "tainted" in some peoples eyes SoE. Well you ahve to realize that they were forced into release by the suits that control the funding. The game wasnt finished and they knew it but the Exec's said too bad make it acceptable for launch and launch it. Well trying to make something acceptable and not finished with a short deadline blew up in their face badly.
Blizzard and SoE are very lucky with WoW and EQ2 respectively, they have the funding and control their own game its release and everything else about it no one can tell them ok release in 1 week done or not. Eq2 has already been pushed back a year if not more to make sure the voiceovers and everything was perfect. They have control over whether the game is released acceptable or finished and they are going for finished.
Now for the Open Beta thingy, Open Beta is Useless for EQ2, Open Beta is a Marketing tool more then anything for the last little while. Get people to play for a set amount of days then cut them off and tell them to buy it if they want more just like a drug dealer that gives you the first gram for free but after that charges you. EQ2 knows it has a huge fan base and that there are many people that want to play it. They know that there are many people that want to test the game and help them make it the best game possible they know this because of the beta registration they had. They know people will even pay money to get into beta with there LoE offer and lately with their Fan faire offer where people are pre-registering which is 100$US just to get a beta spot and not attend.
Why would they let people play a game that will be HUGE in size(2dvd's come one) when those people usually just play the game for free and not give any feedback. It's not for the stress test because well if they need a stress test they can just allow all the people who signed up for beta on the site in and that would be more then enough to test the hardware completly.
If you are whining because you want to see the game on your comp before buying it. GOOD!! don't play the game SoE has said they dont care and most of the people that want to play EQ2 would rather not have you around as well so go play WoW.
After reading that there will be no open beta for EQ2, I am a bit disheartened. I'm new to the MMO genre and am looking forward to playing them in the coming. I REALLY wanted to try EQ2 and make my decision on what MMO to play. An open beta would have allowed me to have a taste of EQ2 and remedy my interest in this MMO. In my opinion, an open beta is a great marketing tool for people like me who have never tried EQ (let alone an MMO). It's a shame, because now I have to look elsewhere to fulfill my MMO needs. WoW looks kinda nice...but I soooo wanted to try EQ2 to compare and make a decision...
This time around there may or may not be purse strings yanking at them to release, but there is WoW to get them to release. That goes the other way around too.
Both companies know their games appeal to the same subset of people, PvP notwithstanding. So both companies know if they are late to the punch, they lose considerable market share. Hardly anyone has time to play two MMOGs at the same time. Even if they try, they will gravitate toward one or the other and cancel the lesser played in time. It tends to be if the first one they play is addictive, they will stick to it. So that is their reason to release at a specific time, finished or not.
I'd argue that every game has a timeframe for release, whether the devs are too proud to admit it or not. It will be finished "when it's done"? No, sorry man, if you take too much time you miss your window. That's the bottom line.
At least with an MMOG, you can patch it. AO, I think, recovered from their miserable launch. Then again, if they didn't have a miserable launch, they'd have probably netted more player-base than they did.
Originally posted by fartman77 After reading that there will be no open beta for EQ2, I am a bit disheartened. I'm new to the MMO genre and am looking forward to playing them in the coming. I REALLY wanted to try EQ2 and make my decision on what MMO to play. An open beta would have allowed me to have a taste of EQ2 and remedy my interest in this MMO. In my opinion, an open beta is a great marketing tool for people like me who have never tried EQ (let alone an MMO). It's a shame, because now I have to look elsewhere to fulfill my MMO needs. WoW looks kinda nice...but I soooo wanted to try EQ2 to compare and make a decision...
Fartman I highly recommend sticking with WOW. I think you will enjoy that more.
Because SOE are a bunch of money grubbers and they want you to have to spend 49.99 to find out if you like the game or not. That way if they dont get a subsciption out of you they will atleast make 49.99.
This cold dark and tormented hell is all i'll ever know so when you get to heaven may the devil be your judge.
From all the EQ2 fans, Alerum, we concede that you are right and that is part of the marketing equation for them.
We go along with the "No Open Beta to make sure they get the $49.99". However, we don't go along with the "No open beta because the game sux" theory.
If you really need an underhanded theory from SOE to keep up with the Sony H8, use this one as it also might be accurate:
It is more likely they want to make sure they get the $49.99 before you find out the game is great but your comp SUX and you can't subscribe because you can't afford enough ram and a good graphics card...
Sweet gay Jesus! Will people ever stop caling SOE "Money Grubbers"? They are a business people. And what do businesses want to do? Come on...say it with me...MAKE MONEY!!! They arent some mom and pop operation that will hold your hand to make a decision. If you owened a business you would do the same thing. I own my own business and that is what I do. And please dont anyone give me their hollier than though, " Well. I would never do that to people if I ran things", because you would to, you would have to, bottom line. If you dont make money you get fired or loose your business. So would all you martyrs please get down off your crosses now.....someone needs the wood.
I never said the game sux i will be buying it in nov. and yes my comp will run it and then some. as for the making money lets see blizzard is having an open beta. L2 had an open beta lots of cmopanys do.
This cold dark and tormented hell is all i'll ever know so when you get to heaven may the devil be your judge.
Well SOE is a bigger company on a level you can barely imagine compared to the other companies. And they are not doing open BETA, deal with it! So if averyone will just deal with it and move the hell on we will all be better for it.
Perhaps the reason SOE isnt planning an open beta is that they have had enough bad experience in past betas that they dont wish to do it again.
Perhaps the idea of catering to a large population of whiny, complaining freeloaders who want nothing more than a free game to play, simply doesnt counter the value they might gain from the insights of the few beta testers that would play for the purpose of an open beta - which is to test the servers and help technically to fine-tune the game.
As much as I enjoy beta-testing - open betas have little appeal to me for these very reasons. I agree with SOE's decision to not have an open beta for the general public.
It's pretty simple actually. The most likely reason they are not having an open beta was already mentioned by someone early in this thread. The beta client is entirely too big to have 10k ppl download in the time frame that they would hold an open beta in. It took well over 3 hours to download the current beta client on a 3meg cable line for me at 1am. Just imagine what would happen if a massive amount of people were to try and download something that large at the same time. The game rocks in its current form and is VERY playable. Screen shots do the game little justice because once you are actually playing it is quite amazing looking and runs well. I thought WoW was pretty decent looking while playing the stress test but once you stand it next to this it looks very lame in comparison.
You guys can say what you want about SOE but this version of EQ is a quality piece of work. If your not currently in beta and making comments about the quality of this game you should really zip it cause you have no idea what your talking about.
Great commentary Ash - looks like a decent and wel thought out response. I agree with u though - since Sony is designing EQ2 along the same zone system as was proven in EQ1 there isnt much need to go open beta to stress the servers. Blizzard on the other hand has opt for the seamless game with a few instancing on critical areas of play. The Stress-test proved to be wildly successful except I don't think they got as many people on the servers as they would have like, so, Open beta - which they announced last thursday - to happen soonis a good way to get more people interested in the game. I am truely surprised that Sony doesnt make some move in response to this announcement by Blizzard though. Sony has to know that if Blizzard does show out nicely during this open beta (which could hit pretty quickly considering how fast they put together the stress-test) could very well be a precursor to an early release (target date release somewhere around Nov 1). I'm kinda wondering what could be going through Sony's thinking cap atm. This announcement on the part of a really nicely developed MMO could have shot a stinger at sony. This could only mean that could all be looking at some crunch time between these 2 giants. Sony was totally silent until I saw some update about frogloks tonight - mmm - this could be what Sony considers a valid response to keep they hype going on EQ2, but, it is only going to get them flamed. Froglok avatars could be seen on a video release from a German web sight 2 weeks ago so it isnt much of a surprise for them to come across and show us now what they are going to look like.
Personally as I see it - based solely on perceptions that are being released EQ2 is pretty complete just as WOW is. Yes there are some incomplete things in WOW and minor bugs I saw from the Stress-test but for the most part WOW is extremely well done and playable for quite some time - at least until they get into the update phase which any large MMO must do. I think we can both agree that no MMO can release 100% perfect. I.e. look back at City of Hero's and the newly released Saga of Ryzom - they are both still updating on a constant basis to add additional components to their games which only makes sense.
I would bet my shirt that somewhere within the world of players that some people from Sony took the time to get into the Stress-test of WOW just so they could see for themselves how well it played. Ye I know u had to tell Blizzard u werent part of organization reporting on the games or a competitor, but that would stop a friend of someone from Sony signing up.
As I see it now - (just my own thinking on how I would do this for Blizzard)
1. Announce open beta and start signups on the 15th of October - at the same time freeze the change mode for the master copy of the game that will be used to send off to distributors at the same time. Keep the devs working full blast on updates for the game.
2. Start letting people into the game a couple days after the initial announcement - say sometime around the 17th or so all the while getting the release disks prpared for shipment. This would have given them plenty of time to pretest the masters for obvious bugs and squash them.
3. Let the open beta run for around ten days or so - ship the masters off to the distributors in the meantime and let them come up to full production - say cutting 200k to 300k copies of the game.
4. Sometime around the 25th or so close down the open beta - do a complete cleanup of all the servers and a final test on the equipment to ensure they are working at peek capacity. Have the distributors start shipping to retailors sometime around the 27th for the retailors to have time to ship to people who preordered the game and let them get stocked up for shelf announcement .
5. 28th or so make the BIG gold announcement so retailers can mail off to the preorder customers - i.e. BLIZZARD GOES GOLD NOVEMBER 1, 2004. Now most of the preorder customers will have the game in their hands around Nov, 1 and stores can start stocking shelves for those who want to buy at the point.
I know this is supposition but consider - we've had no response on the part of Sony - you know that have to be considering this possibility, at least I would be, but then we are talking Sony here - and I don't know how confident they will feel about delaying their own release until Nov, 15 or later. Alot of people are in the same position in the fact that they willnot or cannot aford to shovel pocket money to play more than one online game. So does Sony just give up and scream Uncle or do they take steps to make their own move at this point, or do they just say "I don't believe that Blizzard will take the chance and release this fast - their bluffing".
They don't even need an open beta because they know they are going to succed just like they did in everquest 1 and they know the servers can hold. Since I heard that they are using similar if not better servers that EQ 1 is run on...
I've stopped calling SOE money grubbers, because it's kind of redundant. All megacorps are money grubbers.
I prefer to call them baby snatchers, or perhaps terrorist supporters would be better. Wife beaters would be another option. Or weasle faced pricks. I mention weasle faced pricks only because I'm watching The Salton Sea as I type this, and someone just said weasle faced prick. For your edifacation.
Guys we can all admit that Everquest revolutionized MMO's, but EQ2 is not going to make it in my opinion. World of Warcraft is putting up an amaizing fight and has everything going for it. The only thing EQ2 has going for it are it's graphics in which you need a super computer to play. World of Warcraft requires very little, in fact on a beta phase I played on a POS computer and it ran fine. World of Warcraft is offering things that no other MMO has come up with and I really feel that WoW is going to revolutionize MMO's to date. Ofcourse this is just one mans opinion.
WoW Warcry Head Moderator, Site Promoter, and Columnist Wanderer of the plains of Azeroth
The multiple threads from people who are upset about the character graphics (one is 16 pages) make me wonder how many people who have heard nothing about any of this are going to buy the game and then get upset over their character's looks.
Are you speaking of WoW or EQ2 graphics? I have experienced the graphics for world of warcraf first hand and they are by no means bad, they were made that way on purpose, it is the style of warcraft Blizzard has used. If you want good WoW graphics watch the cinematics which will win "Best Cinematic" just like every other Blizzard title because they are amaizing. As for EQ2 there are points where the graphics are so over done that they look plastic. Just one mans opinion.
WoW Warcry Head Moderator, Site Promoter, and Columnist Wanderer of the plains of Azeroth
Originally posted by Sipher760 World of Warcraft is offering things that no other MMO has come up with and I really feel that WoW is going to revolutionize MMO's to date. Ofcourse this is just one mans opinion.
WoW Warcry Head Moderator, Site Promoter, and Columnist Wanderer of the plains of Azeroth
They NEED to do this, or they'll run into the same garbage lag/disconnects/can't connect to world/login server issues as EQ. Not to mention it shows off the game to those already involved with other MMO's, to make a decision on whether to change over or not. That IMHO is the only purpose of open beta's, not for feedback.
Better yet - make it for FileShack/FilePlanet subscribers. That'll piss off a ton of people, but I'm sure it'll benefit you guys a ton [ including me :P ].
So... if all this was said already, I'm the type that just read the last page and not the previous 9 pages.
They don't need to make an open beta open to the public. They must have tons and tons of beta applications they can call on if they want to stress test their systems. Makes no sense to skip over them, when you their system information already on file and at times personal information. Also with Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest, Planetside I think they have enough information on system setup that a massive stress test isn't needed. This isn't their first MMOPG, in fact its their 4th while only Turbine is has its 2nd out with AC2 and Lineage is on its second game as well. Clearly it has had enough experience, while WoW is Blizzard's first and only mmorpg.
Comments
well after reading 8 pages of this.. i think i am gonna quit reading about future up coming games.. WOW (not the game).. umm i preordered EQ2 and i still can't wait for it to come out! I have only played one other MMORPG and that was SWG and altho it did lack content and was rather boring after awhile.. i played it for over a year.. and now looking back at it.. i had fun. it could of been alot more fun but oh well! i guess seeing that this topic was called no open beta i should talk about that. umm.. it is no biggy to me either way.
I just got one question tho. why do people have to always bitch about stuff. why can't anyone ever come out and say OMG EQ2 IS COMING OUT AND I AM PUMPED UP! it always has to be something bad about everything.
Hey,
All this talk about SoE being greedy and trying to hide a unfinished game is well hilarious.
Ok well Greedy (meaning they want the most money for their product) hmm arent SoE a business? or better yet arent they human wouldnt you like to get paid more for doing the same job??? If the demand is there and people are buying it at 15$ a month and they whine abit but still keep buying it at 20$ a month wouldnt you keep charging 20$ a month dont say no because youll be lying to yourself and not fooling anyone else.
Now the release of SWG that "tainted" in some peoples eyes SoE. Well you ahve to realize that they were forced into release by the suits that control the funding. The game wasnt finished and they knew it but the Exec's said too bad make it acceptable for launch and launch it. Well trying to make something acceptable and not finished with a short deadline blew up in their face badly.
Blizzard and SoE are very lucky with WoW and EQ2 respectively, they have the funding and control their own game its release and everything else about it no one can tell them ok release in 1 week done or not. Eq2 has already been pushed back a year if not more to make sure the voiceovers and everything was perfect. They have control over whether the game is released acceptable or finished and they are going for finished.
Now for the Open Beta thingy, Open Beta is Useless for EQ2, Open Beta is a Marketing tool more then anything for the last little while. Get people to play for a set amount of days then cut them off and tell them to buy it if they want more just like a drug dealer that gives you the first gram for free but after that charges you. EQ2 knows it has a huge fan base and that there are many people that want to play it. They know that there are many people that want to test the game and help them make it the best game possible they know this because of the beta registration they had. They know people will even pay money to get into beta with there LoE offer and lately with their Fan faire offer where people are pre-registering which is 100$US just to get a beta spot and not attend.
Why would they let people play a game that will be HUGE in size(2dvd's come one) when those people usually just play the game for free and not give any feedback. It's not for the stress test because well if they need a stress test they can just allow all the people who signed up for beta on the site in and that would be more then enough to test the hardware completly.
If you are whining because you want to see the game on your comp before buying it. GOOD!! don't play the game SoE has said they dont care and most of the people that want to play EQ2 would rather not have you around as well so go play WoW.
This time around there may or may not be purse strings yanking at them to release, but there is WoW to get them to release. That goes the other way around too.
Both companies know their games appeal to the same subset of people, PvP notwithstanding. So both companies know if they are late to the punch, they lose considerable market share. Hardly anyone has time to play two MMOGs at the same time. Even if they try, they will gravitate toward one or the other and cancel the lesser played in time. It tends to be if the first one they play is addictive, they will stick to it. So that is their reason to release at a specific time, finished or not.
I'd argue that every game has a timeframe for release, whether the devs are too proud to admit it or not. It will be finished "when it's done"? No, sorry man, if you take too much time you miss your window. That's the bottom line.
At least with an MMOG, you can patch it. AO, I think, recovered from their miserable launch. Then again, if they didn't have a miserable launch, they'd have probably netted more player-base than they did.
Fartman I highly recommend sticking with WOW. I think you will enjoy that more.
This cold dark and tormented hell is all i'll ever know so when you get to heaven may the devil be your judge.
~Flogging Molly~
From all the EQ2 fans, Alerum, we concede that you are right and that is part of the marketing equation for them.
We go along with the "No Open Beta to make sure they get the $49.99". However, we don't go along with the "No open beta because the game sux" theory.
If you really need an underhanded theory from SOE to keep up with the Sony H8, use this one as it also might be accurate:
It is more likely they want to make sure they get the $49.99 before you find out the game is great but your comp SUX and you can't subscribe because you can't afford enough ram and a good graphics card...
Sweet gay Jesus! Will people ever stop caling SOE "Money Grubbers"? They are a business people. And what do businesses want to do? Come on...say it with me...MAKE MONEY!!! They arent some mom and pop operation that will hold your hand to make a decision. If you owened a business you would do the same thing. I own my own business and that is what I do. And please dont anyone give me their hollier than though, " Well. I would never do that to people if I ran things", because you would to, you would have to, bottom line. If you dont make money you get fired or loose your business. So would all you martyrs please get down off your crosses now.....someone needs the wood.
This cold dark and tormented hell is all i'll ever know so when you get to heaven may the devil be your judge.
~Flogging Molly~
Perhaps the reason SOE isnt planning an open beta is that they have had enough bad experience in past betas that they dont wish to do it again.
Perhaps the idea of catering to a large population of whiny, complaining freeloaders who want nothing more than a free game to play, simply doesnt counter the value they might gain from the insights of the few beta testers that would play for the purpose of an open beta - which is to test the servers and help technically to fine-tune the game.
As much as I enjoy beta-testing - open betas have little appeal to me for these very reasons. I agree with SOE's decision to not have an open beta for the general public.
It's pretty simple actually. The most likely reason they are not having an open beta was already mentioned by someone early in this thread. The beta client is entirely too big to have 10k ppl download in the time frame that they would hold an open beta in. It took well over 3 hours to download the current beta client on a 3meg cable line for me at 1am. Just imagine what would happen if a massive amount of people were to try and download something that large at the same time. The game rocks in its current form and is VERY playable. Screen shots do the game little justice because once you are actually playing it is quite amazing looking and runs well. I thought WoW was pretty decent looking while playing the stress test but once you stand it next to this it looks very lame in comparison.
You guys can say what you want about SOE but this version of EQ is a quality piece of work. If your not currently in beta and making comments about the quality of this game you should really zip it cause you have no idea what your talking about.
Personally as I see it - based solely on perceptions that are being released EQ2 is pretty complete just as WOW is. Yes there are some incomplete things in WOW and minor bugs I saw from the Stress-test but for the most part WOW is extremely well done and playable for quite some time - at least until they get into the update phase which any large MMO must do. I think we can both agree that no MMO can release 100% perfect. I.e. look back at City of Hero's and the newly released Saga of Ryzom - they are both still updating on a constant basis to add additional components to their games which only makes sense.
I would bet my shirt that somewhere within the world of players that some people from Sony took the time to get into the Stress-test of WOW just so they could see for themselves how well it played. Ye I know u had to tell Blizzard u werent part of organization reporting on the games or a competitor, but that would stop a friend of someone from Sony signing up.
As I see it now - (just my own thinking on how I would do this for Blizzard)
1. Announce open beta and start signups on the 15th of October - at the same time freeze the change mode for the master copy of the game that will be used to send off to distributors at the same time. Keep the devs working full blast on updates for the game.
2. Start letting people into the game a couple days after the initial announcement - say sometime around the 17th or so all the while getting the release disks prpared for shipment. This would have given them plenty of time to pretest the masters for obvious bugs and squash them.
3. Let the open beta run for around ten days or so - ship the masters off to the distributors in the meantime and let them come up to full production - say cutting 200k to 300k copies of the game.
4. Sometime around the 25th or so close down the open beta - do a complete cleanup of all the servers and a final test on the equipment to ensure they are working at peek capacity. Have the distributors start shipping to retailors sometime around the 27th for the retailors to have time to ship to people who preordered the game and let them get stocked up for shelf announcement .
5. 28th or so make the BIG gold announcement so retailers can mail off to the preorder customers - i.e. BLIZZARD GOES GOLD NOVEMBER 1, 2004. Now most of the preorder customers will have the game in their hands around Nov, 1 and stores can start stocking shelves for those who want to buy at the point.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
~Yeti
...Role Player for a long, long time.
...has a very hard time keeping the same avatar.
~Yeti
I've stopped calling SOE money grubbers, because it's kind of redundant. All megacorps are money grubbers.
I prefer to call them baby snatchers, or perhaps terrorist supporters would be better. Wife beaters would be another option. Or weasle faced pricks. I mention weasle faced pricks only because I'm watching The Salton Sea as I type this, and someone just said weasle faced prick. For your edifacation.
WoW Warcry Head Moderator, Site Promoter, and Columnist
Wanderer of the plains of Azeroth
http://www.wow.warcry.com
WoW Warcry Head Moderator, Site Promoter, and Columnist
Wanderer of the plains of Azeroth
http://www.wow.warcry.com
The multiple threads from people who are upset about the character graphics (one is 16 pages) make me wonder how many people who have heard nothing about any of this are going to buy the game and then get upset over their character's looks.
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=art&message.id=5000
WoW Warcry Head Moderator, Site Promoter, and Columnist
Wanderer of the plains of Azeroth
http://www.wow.warcry.com
WoW Warcry Head Moderator, Site Promoter, and Columnist
Wanderer of the plains of Azeroth
http://www.wow.warcry.com
I meant EQ2 graphics. The link to the EQ2 thread was the clue
Open beta == stress test.
They NEED to do this, or they'll run into the same garbage lag/disconnects/can't connect to world/login server issues as EQ. Not to mention it shows off the game to those already involved with other MMO's, to make a decision on whether to change over or not. That IMHO is the only purpose of open beta's, not for feedback.
Better yet - make it for FileShack/FilePlanet subscribers. That'll piss off a ton of people, but I'm sure it'll benefit you guys a ton [ including me :P ].
So... if all this was said already, I'm the type that just read the last page and not the previous 9 pages.
They don't need to make an open beta open to the public. They must have tons and tons of beta applications they can call on if they want to stress test their systems. Makes no sense to skip over them, when you their system information already on file and at times personal information. Also with Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest, Planetside I think they have enough information on system setup that a massive stress test isn't needed. This isn't their first MMOPG, in fact its their 4th while only Turbine is has its 2nd out with AC2 and Lineage is on its second game as well. Clearly it has had enough experience, while WoW is Blizzard's first and only mmorpg.
_______________
EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://www.imperium-arcanum.com