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Darkfall's Beta NDA
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Give him a chance! It's not easy to cut'n'paste from other companys' legal documents when English isn't your first language.
Huh? The game is in English is it not? So it shouldn't be a problem of getting a English NDA?
Sure the game is "in English", quite possibly some of their writers are even native speakers (not sure, though the devs are mostly Greeks and Norwegians as I understand it). But there's a pretty big difference between knowing enough English to write some second-rate MMO quest prose or mod forums, and being able to draft a proper legal document in a language that isn't necessarily your first.
So your saying the NDA is not in English already, that there are no beta testers that have english as their primary language that would have already had to read and agree to said english NDA?
VPellen, I really respect the job you guys have here in forums. I would only add that Tasos himself caused this problem by first saying that YES, people could mention they were in the beta and he never retracted that. He just said that people can't talk about beta but never specifically said if you can or cannot mention the fact that they are in beta. Since Tasos himself first said it was okay to mention you are in beta, I don't understand why MMORPG.com is having an issue with it. It isn't for you guys to fix, it is for Tasos to clarify Aventurine's position on the matter.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
another good way to save money.
ps told the mod here non beta people are not seeing the nda
Humm not sure I understand your PS.
You told the Mod here at MMORPG.COM that people not in the beta will not be able to see the NDA?
As to your post, sure its a way to save money but is it a good way to get a Intelligent, trustworthy CM thats good at the job? "Get that NDA too you? Maybe I'll look into it after my nap, unless of course I'm hungry in which case I'm gonna grab a bite to eat. Don't worry I might remember your request later when i feel like it."
another good way to save money.
ps told the mod here non beta people are not seeing the nda
Humm not sure I understand your PS.
You told the Mod here at MMORPG.COM that people not in the beta will not be able to see the NDA?
As to your post, sure its a way to save money but is it a good way to get a Intelligent, trustworthy CM thats good at the job? "Get that NDA too you? Maybe I'll look into it after my nap, unless of course I'm hungry in which case I'm gonna grab a bite to eat. Don't worry I might remember your request later when i feel like it."
imeant brannoc told me he told this mod no noones getting it unless there in beta
another good way to save money.
ps told the mod here non beta people are not seeing the nda
Humm not sure I understand your PS.
You told the Mod here at MMORPG.COM that people not in the beta will not be able to see the NDA?
As to your post, sure its a way to save money but is it a good way to get a Intelligent, trustworthy CM thats good at the job? "Get that NDA too you? Maybe I'll look into it after my nap, unless of course I'm hungry in which case I'm gonna grab a bite to eat. Don't worry I might remember your request later when i feel like it."
imeant brannoc told me he told this mod no noones getting it unless there in beta
Wait, do you mean to say that Brannoc told ME that nobody is getting the NDA unless they're getting into beta?
Because no, no he didn't tell me that.
another good way to save money.
ps told the mod here non beta people are not seeing the nda
Humm not sure I understand your PS.
You told the Mod here at MMORPG.COM that people not in the beta will not be able to see the NDA?
As to your post, sure its a way to save money but is it a good way to get a Intelligent, trustworthy CM thats good at the job? "Get that NDA too you? Maybe I'll look into it after my nap, unless of course I'm hungry in which case I'm gonna grab a bite to eat. Don't worry I might remember your request later when i feel like it."
imeant brannoc told me he told this mod no noones getting it unless there in beta
Wait, do you mean to say that Brannoc told ME that nobody is getting the NDA unless they're getting into beta?
Because no, no he didn't tell me that.
Ohhh, sticky situation here. So who's lying, downtoearth or Brannoc?
another good way to save money.
ps told the mod here non beta people are not seeing the nda
Humm not sure I understand your PS.
You told the Mod here at MMORPG.COM that people not in the beta will not be able to see the NDA?
As to your post, sure its a way to save money but is it a good way to get a Intelligent, trustworthy CM thats good at the job? "Get that NDA too you? Maybe I'll look into it after my nap, unless of course I'm hungry in which case I'm gonna grab a bite to eat. Don't worry I might remember your request later when i feel like it."
imeant brannoc told me he told this mod no noones getting it unless there in beta
Wait, do you mean to say that Brannoc told ME that nobody is getting the NDA unless they're getting into beta?
Because no, no he didn't tell me that.
Ohhh, sticky situation here. So who's lying, downtoearth or Brannoc?
hey brannoc told me he told you no err the mod
<Brannoc> ah, I already told him no
<Brannoc> I made it clear what the nda entails, we're not giving it out to non-beta participants
Wait, do you mean to say that Brannoc told ME that nobody is getting the NDA unless they're getting into beta?
Because no, no he didn't tell me that.
Ohhh, sticky situation here. So who's lying, downtoearth or Brannoc?
hey brannoc told me he told you no err the mod
<Brannoc> ah, I already told him no
<Brannoc> I made it clear what the nda entails, we're not giving it out to non-beta participants
Looks like Brannoc did some fibbing then. Hmmm, deceit from someone connected to Darkfall? Who'd have thought.
I'm really curious to see this NDA now ( if it exist ). Especially the fine print.
another good way to save money.
ps told the mod here non beta people are not seeing the nda
Humm not sure I understand your PS.
You told the Mod here at MMORPG.COM that people not in the beta will not be able to see the NDA?
As to your post, sure its a way to save money but is it a good way to get a Intelligent, trustworthy CM thats good at the job? "Get that NDA too you? Maybe I'll look into it after my nap, unless of course I'm hungry in which case I'm gonna grab a bite to eat. Don't worry I might remember your request later when i feel like it."
imeant brannoc told me he told this mod no noones getting it unless there in beta
Wait, do you mean to say that Brannoc told ME that nobody is getting the NDA unless they're getting into beta?
Because no, no he didn't tell me that.
Ohhh, sticky situation here. So who's lying, downtoearth or Brannoc?
hey brannoc told me he told you no err the mod
<Brannoc> ah, I already told him no
<Brannoc> I made it clear what the nda entails, we're not giving it out to non-beta participants
Looks like Brannoc did some fibbing then. Hmmm, deceit from someone connected to Darkfall? Who'd have thought.
or there was amiss communication some where
How many ways can Brannoc miscommunicate "I'm not giving you the NDA."? Unless Brannoc didn't say it in the first place.
Hmm, this is tricky. But I'd sum it up to miscommunication if only because he'd have no reason to keep the fact from me. He did tell me what it entails without actually giving me the NDA though.
Whatever, I'm paying it no mind. When I asked him a second time for the NDA, I recieved no response after a few days, so I sent an e-mail to Tasos. Perhaps he has the authority to give such things out. If he doesn't, though, then I don't know.
Maybe you could send a little side note of why it matters if people tell others they are in beta. I would ask some more questions, but it would spill over into another thread. I've told plenty of people I was in beta's previously and never had a problem with it. Most NDA's even state it's ok. As long as thats all you say. I mean, what do they want from us. To hide ourselves inside a dungeon and wait for them to launch the game or what? If it's like that, then no one would beta test games unless they are paid. And since we are not, developers should really tone down on even having people sign them. Bleh, I said to much.
The only people that need to see the NDA are the people in the beta. I believe that MMORPG.com has a 'no beta-leak' policy anyway (?) so it's all moot.
At least you admit to doing a lousy job here..
Why you don't start to moderate DarkFall boards properly ?
Why you don't scan for bad post content like you do in SWG board (game related)... and ban Vaportrolls at least ?
No wonder you get no info from aventurine and not invited to dinner..
MMORPGItalia.it is way ahead from you guys..
MMORPGItalia.it for the win !
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
At least you admit to doing a lousy job here..
Why you don't start to moderate DarkFall boards properly ?
Why you don't scan for bad post content like you do in SWG board (game related)... and ban Vaportrolls at least ?
No wonder you get no info from aventurine and not invited to dinner..
MMORPGItalia.it is way ahead from you guys..
I don't think mmorpg.com do full IP bans, so the bans are pointless anyway.
At least you admit to doing a lousy job here..
Why you don't start to moderate DarkFall boards properly ?
Why you don't scan for bad post content like you do in SWG board (game related)... and ban Vaportrolls at least ?
No wonder you get no info from aventurine and not invited to dinner..
MMORPGItalia.it is way ahead from you guys..
I don't think mmorpg.com do full IP bans, so the bans are pointless anyway.
yea
At least you admit to doing a lousy job here..
Why you don't start to moderate DarkFall boards properly ?
Why you don't scan for bad post content like you do in SWG board (game related)... and ban Vaportrolls at least ?
No wonder you get no info from aventurine and not invited to dinner..
MMORPGItalia.it is way ahead from you guys..
I don't think mmorpg.com do full IP bans, so the bans are pointless anyway.
yea
Even if ....it makes an example and the haters/trolls will watch they negative talks in the future...btw regardless it is effective or not..SWG boards receive such "extra care" from the mods...
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Vaportrolls are a myth based on a false premise.
Vaportrolls are a myth based on a false premise.
i see you not the right men for the job at DarkFall Forum.......
----
Dear Jon Wood,
can we have please moderators who at least like the PvP and full loot genre and not biased towards DarkFall ?
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Vaportrolls are a myth based on a false premise.
i see you not the right men for the job at DarkFall Forum.......
----
Dear Jon Wood,
can we have please moderators who at least like the PvP and full loot genre and not biased towards DarkFall ?
Okay, communication error. Let me put it another way.
How would a person go about voicing the opinion of Darkfall being vaporware without being considered a troll (in your eyes)? Honest question.
Vaportrolls are a myth based on a false premise.
i see you not the right men for the job at DarkFall Forum.......
----
Dear Jon Wood,
can we have please moderators who at least like the PvP and full loot genre and not biased towards DarkFall ?
Okay, communication error. Let me put it another way.
How would a person go about voicing the opinion of Darkfall being vaporware without being considered a troll (in your eyes)? Honest question.
You seem to not understand ..voicing the opinion of DF being Vaporware is trolling because even you site has the game listed as "under developement" .."to be released within 2008" ...
Someone who voices such an opinion do this to stir trouble ... can't uindertstand why you have trouble to see this ...
A troll because he can't use any other "excessive negative comment" about this game he try to refer to the game as being vapor..using the "most excessive negative" comment he thinks he can apply to it..negating his very existance
i simply would like at this stage with beta going on that a vaporware comment should fall under the "expressing a excessive negative opinion" rule and therefore resulting in bans cause of trolling ..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Correct me if I am wrong but is this not the rules of the forum?
This is common here, read through those before posting.
Topic Hijacking
Posting comments within a thread which severely disrupts the original conversation is prohibited at MMORPG.com.
Example: Asking whether a game has PvP in a thread about crafting materials found in a new expansion is Topic Hijacking.
Game Attacks
Unsubstantiated comments about specific or general games will be penalized in nearly the same way attacks against people will. The exception is that you can say mean things about games provided you back it up with reasons.
Example: "Game X sucks." is not a legitimate comment. "Game X sucks, because..." is acceptable.
Trolling
Posting excessive negative comments or baiting others to respond in a negative manner is considered trolling on the MMORPG.com forums.
For example: If there is one game that you did not enjoy, voicing your opinion is encouraged. Posting this opinion in every thread concerning that game to the point that it disrupts all other conversation is not tolerated.
Off-Topic Posting
Posting in boards that clearly have nothing to do with your topic is not tolerated. Typically, posts of this nature will be moved to the appropriate board.
Example: A post in the EverQuest II boards about how much you love World of WarCraft is off topic.
Multiple Accounts
If the staff of MMORPG.com discovers that a user is creating and/or using multiple accounts, that user, and all accounts, both past and present, will be banned from MMORPG.com.
"Game Attacks
Unsubstantiated comments about specific or general games will be penalized in nearly the same way attacks against people will. The exception is that you can say mean things about games provided you back it up with reasons.
Example: "Game X sucks." is not a legitimate comment. "Game X sucks, because..." is acceptable."
The above is one in particular that would concern you about those that troll forums and say "DarkFall is Vapoware". Of course if they gave reasoning to back it up then this would not be a violation of the rules. Having the reasoning to back it up allows for a debate to take place.
"Off-Topic Posting
Posting in boards that clearly have nothing to do with your topic is not tolerated. Typically, posts of this nature will be moved to the appropriate board.
Example: A post in the EverQuest II boards about how much you love World of WarCraft is off topic."
This as well seems to not be upheld much if at all.
"Topic Hijacking
Posting comments within a thread which severely disrupts the original conversation is prohibited at MMORPG.com.
Example: Asking whether a game has PvP in a thread about crafting materials found in a new expansion is Topic Hijacking."
The above is another that bothers me, discussions on DarkFall forums about a topic are continuosly hijacked with excessive negative comments, many of which are unsubstantiated comments about a specific game. So in essence break several rules all at once. And this is allowed as well.
And lastly you have stated that MMORPG.com will uphold what the DarkFall CM has said about the NDA, you have stated there will be warnings if any post about anything pertaining to beta such as but not limited to "I am in Beta" or "My friends in Beta" I am unclear on if this will go for those continuosly asking for those in beta to break the NDA but I would imagine so. The point of me pointing this out is that it seems there is now a moderation policy in place regarding DarkFall's NDA and I have been under the impression that questioning moderation on these boards is to be done through private channels and if done publicly will be deleted and warrent a warning. If this is the case then I am a canidate for a warning as are several others in this thread.
In any case I would like to know what the policy is as of right now, will disscusing DarkFall beta, Stating I or someone I know is in DarkFall beta, or anything pertaining to what may be coverd by the NDA be in violation of MMORPG.com's policy or can I freely post things such as this without deletion or fear of other reprecussions?
An answer to this would be greatly appreciated so that we, the community, know where MMORPG.com stands on this issue at this time.
PS: Meant to add to the Rules violation part of my post that it was in response to what you said pertaining to Vapor trolls and when would calling DarkFall Vapor ware be ok to the person you replied to. To me calling DarkFall Vaporware is fine if it is within the rules MMORPG.com has set, so far those that are reffered to as Vapor Trolls clearly violate the rules on a regular basis generaly disrupting debates and even eventualy leading to locked threads on topics that actualy matterd to others.
Yes Gray ..
but seems anyone can get away with "this game doesn't exist" or "is vaporware" ..because it didn't get acknowledged as "excessive negative comment" but it should be ..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
isnt it hypocrite if u dont want ppl making "excessive negative comments" while you, as a swg vet, display the same comments in the swg forums?
MMOs currently playing: -
About to play: Lord of the Rings Online
Played: Anarchy Online (alltime favorite) and lots of f2p titles (honorable mentions: 9Dragons, Martial Heroes, Dekaron, Atlantica Online)
isnt it hypocrite if u dont want ppl making "excessive negative comments" while you, as a swg vet, display the same comments in the swg forums?
Unfortunately the NGE was/is not vapor and we all still suffer from it...
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)