Fan vs. Hater

altairzq · January 2009

I have never seen a fanatic talking like in the examples you show, would be nice.

Spoonpott · January 2009

Originally posted by Dethnoble

atziluth,
I'm going to only respond to your last comment. The rest of your comments revolve around bait and switch tactics, taking things out of context, and distortions of what I said or you said.   Hopefully the following will help you better understand:
I agree. There are people who attack those who critize the game. But if you read my post and thought about it before jumping to conclusions, this isn't about valid critics. I agree with the following:
1. It is suspicious that they are now offering an open-beta that is really a closed beta. To top it off they have now went with pre-orders and from the looks of things you might not be able to test the game before then.
2. There is no definitive proof that they received any big enough investment to bring their original vision and promised ideas to market. However, there was no definitive proof that Turbine did either when they claimed they got like $10 million then another $22ish million to develop D&DO and LoTRO.
3. Some of the ideas and planned features that we know about with Darkfall make you wonder if they are really possible as described.   Knowing MMO technology, some of the ideas, will be extremely difficult or probably impossible to implement as is.
The whole point to my post is the haters/trolls who bash fans, dismiss their evidence, and call them blind followers are plain ridiculous.   Furthermore, it alludes to the fact that I can plainly see some people are obviously trying to stir up drama for their own entertainment.   They want another Dark and Light so they can sit here, hours on end, with smut and garbage to entertain themselves; sorta like Enquirer magazines.

Fair enough, your 3 points are valid, and your description of haters is right on the money.

I'll tell you what a fanboy is: someone who bashes a skeptic, calls him a troll, and ignores the argument that made him post completly, trying to get a so called edge on him to boost his e-peen on a gaming forum as if the devs are gonna pay him for defending a game.

I hope you understand, I am not bashing you or your post, I am just explaining whats it like trying to have a discussion on this forum and getting your post hijacked and taken out of context just because some people are too dumb to know that their opinion is not the only one.

This is called a general discusion forum, as long as the name is not "General agreement about awsomness" people will talk about the game, agree and disagree, and the sooner fanboys and haters get that through their skulls, the better it'll be for the sake of this game's community.

hidden1 · January 2009

Originally posted by Hives

Fans vs haters should be more like fool vs idiot because the info is lacking and if either side can make a judgement off that then they need to be catergorize as idiots or fools. The only people that make sense are the rational skeptics and they always get thrown into the hater category so keep wasting your time arguing about a game and if it doesn't get released what will you do...

Being a fence-sitting skeptic is not the same as a cynical hater. I almost bought your neutral-skeptical style of rhetoric up until you marred it with "flavoring" with the following quote, "... and if it doesn't get released what will you do..." This quote to me seems to indicate your obvious biased as to where you stand on Darkfall, and completely negates any intended or perhaps superfluous objectivity, lifting it's own veil of poorly disguised hate.

atziluth · January 2009

Originally posted by Dethnoble

atziluth,
I'm going to only respond to your last comment. The rest of your comments revolve around bait and switch tactics, taking things out of context, and distortions of what I said or you said.   Hopefully the following will help you better understand:
I agree. There are people who attack those who critize the game. But if you read my post and thought about it before jumping to conclusions, this isn't about valid critics. I agree with the following:
1. It is suspicious that they are now offering an open-beta that is really a closed beta. To top it off they have now went with pre-orders and from the looks of things you might not be able to test the game before then.
2. There is no definitive proof that they received any big enough investment to bring their original vision and promised ideas to market. However, there was no definitive proof that Turbine did either when they claimed they got like $10 million then another $22ish million to develop D&DO and LoTRO.
3. Some of the ideas and planned features that we know about with Darkfall make you wonder if they are really possible as described.   Knowing MMO technology, some of the ideas, will be extremely difficult or probably impossible to implement as is.
The whole point to my post is the haters/trolls who bash fans, dismiss their evidence, and call them blind followers are plain ridiculous.   Furthermore, it alludes to the fact that I can plainly see some people are obviously trying to stir up drama for their own entertainment.   They want another Dark and Light so they can sit here, hours on end, with smut and garbage to entertain themselves; sorta like Enquirer magazines.

There was no bait and switch there. It is all in this thread anyways for people to go back and check.

As to your points.

1) They do not owe the community anything. They can do what they want, but like you said it raises questions within the community and leads to some of the animosity.

2) I never bought into the whole money argument. They have what they have and the end result will prove how effective they were in creating their vision with the resources they had.

3) I think you are right. I believe they may advance certain features in the genre while completely botching others. That is what usually happens in any MMO.

Here are the issues I have with what you are saying. You are strictly placing blame on haters when both sides are to blame here. The blind fanbois are just polar opposites of the irrational critics. Neither are actual fans of the game and both are trolls. There is any number of shades of gray in between where reason can actually take hold. The drama however is a direct result of how Aventurine has shaped the community. The ambiguity and vague responses over the years has created extreme polarization. While good for creating hype it is actually quite destructive for the community as a whole.

I called you out because you were only showing one side of a two sided issue. Perhaps you understand that both sides are to blame, but by not being critical of both you only fan the flames you are trying to address. This is counter productive like I said before and will only frustrate you if your intent is pure. I will back off however because this thread will only continue to incite more animosity. Know that even though I am quite critical of Aventurine I desperately want DF to succeed. It has been too long since a concept like this has even been attempted... far too long.

corpusc · January 2009

dethnoble is one of the most levelheaded people to ever post in the Darkfall section. he's right on almost every point.

i've never seen a more pathetic online bunch of folks as the haters here who spend so much time and effort hating something.

its one thing to follow a game

its another thing to religious, fanatically, cultishly (and with froth and foam i might add, to quote one of them)

follow DARKFALL FOLLOWERS. i feel sorry for them for having such crappy lives that THIS is how they get satisfaction in life.

its completely normal to have a hobby, and look forward to upcoming new things in your hobby (regardless of the ridiculous degrees some fanboys carry it to).

its completely unhealthy and sickening to make it your hobby to hate on somebody elses hobby, and hate on their dreams, no matter how farfetched you think they are.

nobody is buying that its because they care about the fanboys and hopefuls (the corollary to the skeptics) and just wanna defuse their expectations. they wouldn't word things like they're going into verbal battle with every sentence if that was the case. its bloody obvious the irrational & poisonous intent that drips from the haters posts. they feel they are fighting a war with their words, and think they are verbally pwning people. probably cuz their chosen games are as sad as their lives are, so this is superior gameplay for them. afterall its just not possible to have superior gameplay in a GAME! their hate and negativity is just as repetitive as the sorry games they cling to.

jy88902 · January 2009

Originally posted by Dethnoble

The whole point to my post is the haters/trolls who bash fans, dismiss their evidence, and call them blind followers are plain ridiculous. Furthermore, it alludes to the fact that I can plainly see some people are obviously trying to stir up drama for their own entertainment. They want another Dark and Light so they can sit here, hours on end, with smut and garbage to entertain themselves; sorta like Enquirer magazines.

You have this false belief that the "trolls" are "out to get DF and Aventurine". Sorry to break it to you, but that is just pure ass-backward logic.

The amount of "haters" and "trolls" on the DF board is a DIRECT CONSEQUENCE of the endless bullshit that Aventuring devs and the fanboy legions had being spewing over the years.

Claiming the game is so "next gen" that it will "revolutionize" the mmo industry, since the industry is "stale" apparently because all other mmo's suck and are devoid of "innovation"

Claiming the game is more ready than most other mmo's that had been released.

Calling people with a different opinion carebears and telling them to go back to their "themepark" WoW.

These are just a few examples off the top of my head. The point is that if the devs were humble and honest like any normal game developers should be, there wouldn't be nearly as many "skeptics" of the game; and if the fanboys were not as vicious and obnoxious as they are now, there would be dramatically less "trolls" and "haters". Cause and effect, get it?

Dethnoble · January 2009

Seems i've offended alot of people. If you are offended by my original post you need to take a long hard look at yourself for a moment. Seems some people don't get that it's a combination of humor and simply to point out that it isn't just the blind followers being ridiculous.

The only reason why I didn't do this the opposite way is because the haters are the ones who bring themselves to this forum created for Darkfall. They get themselves involved.

Furthermore, even though the 'fanboi' can be ridiculous, those who are critics about something choose to get themselves involved. Whereas, the fanboi gets involved because guess what? THEY ARE A FAN, this is the game they want to play, and they are hoping it lives up to the hype! Furthermore, they want other people to play the game and enjoy it.

The 'fanboi' isn't out to hurt you, or at least the non-socialpathic ones, but tons of people seem to think that just because the fanboi wants their game to succeed and defends it religiously means that they are the enemies and they should be demonized.

Now, sure, there are idiots in this world who'll get to another game and proclaim how much better it is than that game without even playing it. Every game, before they are released, have those idiots. But even generalizing all 'fanbois' in that category is wrong.

Do you people get my point now? The hater, or even the legitimate critic, got themselves involved so I don't feel sorry in the least bit for them.

atziluth · January 2009

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Seems i've offended alot of people. If you are offended by my original post you need to take a long hard look at yourself for a moment. Seems some people don't get that it's a combination of humor and simply to point out that it isn't just the blind followers being ridiculous.
The only reason why I didn't do this the opposite way is because the haters are the ones who bring themselves to this forum created for Darkfall.   They get themselves involved.
Furthermore, even though the 'fanboi' can be ridiculous, those who are critics about something choose to get themselves involved. Whereas, the fanboi gets involved because guess what? THEY ARE A FAN, this is the game they want to play, and they are hoping it lives up to the hype!  Furthermore, they want other people to play the game and enjoy it.
The 'fanboi' isn't out to hurt you, or at least the non-socialpathic ones, but tons of people seem to think that just because the fanboi wants their game to succeed and defends it religiously means that they are the enemies and they should be demonized.
Now, sure, there are idiots in this world who'll get to another game and proclaim how much better it is than that game without even playing it.   Every game, before they are released, have those idiots. But even generalizing all 'fanbois' in that category is wrong.
Do you people get my point now? The hater, or even the legitimate critic, got themselves involved so I don't feel sorry in the least bit for them.

What you fail to see is that the reasonable critics are fans too. Obviously nothing I can say will make you see that so I am done with this thread.

-edit-

BTW I was not offended in any way.

Dethnoble · January 2009

Originally posted by jy88902

Originally posted by Dethnoble

The whole point to my post is the haters/trolls who bash fans, dismiss their evidence, and call them blind followers are plain ridiculous. Furthermore, it alludes to the fact that I can plainly see some people are obviously trying to stir up drama for their own entertainment. They want another Dark and Light so they can sit here, hours on end, with smut and garbage to entertain themselves; sorta like Enquirer magazines.

You have this false belief that the "trolls" are "out to get DF and Aventurine". Sorry to break it to you, but that is just pure ass-backward logic.

The amount of "haters" and "trolls" on the DF board is a DIRECT CONSEQUENCE of the endless bullshit that Aventuring devs and the fanboy legions had being spewing over the years.

Claiming the game is so "next gen" that it will "revolutionize" the mmo industry, since the industry is "stale" apparently because all other mmo's suck and are devoid of "innovation"

Claiming the game is more ready than most other mmo's that had been released.

Calling people with a different opinion carebears and telling them to go back to their "themepark" WoW.

These are just a few examples off the top of my head. The point is that if the devs were humble and honest like any normal game developers should be, there wouldn't be nearly as many "skeptics" of the game; and if the fanboys were not as vicious and obnoxious as they are now, there would be dramatically less "trolls" and "haters". Cause and effect, get it?

The entire problem to your argument is your assertion that the developers haven't been humble and logic. Have you played the beta? Been behind the scenes? Do you know the game itself or do you ideally sit back and just read the hearsay?

One person posts a comment in a forum. The next day you see that same post, in other forums, and before long you see people thinking a certain way. What is the name of that syndrome? I forget. It definately applies here.

It begins with people thinking that Tasos and Aventurine are being dishonest because they don't devulge everything about DF, give out their development costs, etc. Pretty soon, this develops from certain people being irritated, thus posting about that irritation, and then getting people who really don't follow the game to think in a certain way.

Next thing you know these armchair developers, people with opinions about things they have no clue about, or simply the smut drama searchers bringing their own opinions. They, instead of letting people know they are their opinion, they state them as fact.

Next thing you know Tasos is lying, Aventurine is stringing it's customers along, and the game is actually crap and people who haven't done any real following knows that this is only opinions and some people's speculations.

miagisan · January 2009

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Seems i've offended alot of people. If you are offended by my original post you need to take a long hard look at yourself for a moment. Seems some people don't get that it's a combination of humor and simply to point out that it isn't just the blind followers being ridiculous.
The only reason why I didn't do this the opposite way is because the haters are the ones who bring themselves to this forum created for Darkfall.   They get themselves involved.
Furthermore, even though the 'fanboi' can be ridiculous, those who are critics about something choose to get themselves involved. Whereas, the fanboi gets involved because guess what? THEY ARE A FAN, this is the game they want to play, and they are hoping it lives up to the hype!  Furthermore, they want other people to play the game and enjoy it.
The 'fanboi' isn't out to hurt you, or at least the non-socialpathic ones, but tons of people seem to think that just because the fanboi wants their game to succeed and defends it religiously means that they are the enemies and they should be demonized.
Now, sure, there are idiots in this world who'll get to another game and proclaim how much better it is than that game without even playing it.   Every game, before they are released, have those idiots. But even generalizing all 'fanbois' in that category is wrong.
Do you people get my point now? The hater, or even the legitimate critic, got themselves involved so I don't feel sorry in the least bit for them.

just like to point out, while you say its the hater that brings themsleves to the darkfall forum, its also the fanbois that travel to other forums. There have been numerous campaigns both here and on the Darkfall forums, to go spread to word to every forum, or posti n EQ forums touting rediculous nonsense like "this game is exactly like EQ!" or whichever other said game they are posting in. Remember for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction.

Fanbois create trolls, trolls create fanbois.

Seggallion · January 2009

OP @ Speaker of truth!

And like always the 'sceptics' are close behind crying

Dethnoble · January 2009

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Seems i've offended alot of people. If you are offended by my original post you need to take a long hard look at yourself for a moment. Seems some people don't get that it's a combination of humor and simply to point out that it isn't just the blind followers being ridiculous.
The only reason why I didn't do this the opposite way is because the haters are the ones who bring themselves to this forum created for Darkfall.   They get themselves involved.
Furthermore, even though the 'fanboi' can be ridiculous, those who are critics about something choose to get themselves involved. Whereas, the fanboi gets involved because guess what? THEY ARE A FAN, this is the game they want to play, and they are hoping it lives up to the hype!  Furthermore, they want other people to play the game and enjoy it.
The 'fanboi' isn't out to hurt you, or at least the non-socialpathic ones, but tons of people seem to think that just because the fanboi wants their game to succeed and defends it religiously means that they are the enemies and they should be demonized.
Now, sure, there are idiots in this world who'll get to another game and proclaim how much better it is than that game without even playing it.   Every game, before they are released, have those idiots. But even generalizing all 'fanbois' in that category is wrong.
Do you people get my point now? The hater, or even the legitimate critic, got themselves involved so I don't feel sorry in the least bit for them.

What you fail to see is that the reasonable critics are fans too. Obviously nothing I can say will make you see that so I am done with this thread.

-edit-

BTW I was not offended in any way.

Again, you COMPLETELY miss the fact that my post wasn't directed towards constructive critics. I don't think you're stupid so I'm begining to suspect you're just trolling me because you are actually a closet hater.

miagisan · January 2009

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Seems i've offended alot of people. If you are offended by my original post you need to take a long hard look at yourself for a moment. Seems some people don't get that it's a combination of humor and simply to point out that it isn't just the blind followers being ridiculous.
The only reason why I didn't do this the opposite way is because the haters are the ones who bring themselves to this forum created for Darkfall.   They get themselves involved.
Furthermore, even though the 'fanboi' can be ridiculous, those who are critics about something choose to get themselves involved. Whereas, the fanboi gets involved because guess what? THEY ARE A FAN, this is the game they want to play, and they are hoping it lives up to the hype!  Furthermore, they want other people to play the game and enjoy it.
The 'fanboi' isn't out to hurt you, or at least the non-socialpathic ones, but tons of people seem to think that just because the fanboi wants their game to succeed and defends it religiously means that they are the enemies and they should be demonized.
Now, sure, there are idiots in this world who'll get to another game and proclaim how much better it is than that game without even playing it.   Every game, before they are released, have those idiots. But even generalizing all 'fanbois' in that category is wrong.
Do you people get my point now? The hater, or even the legitimate critic, got themselves involved so I don't feel sorry in the least bit for them.

What you fail to see is that the reasonable critics are fans too. Obviously nothing I can say will make you see that so I am done with this thread.

-edit-

BTW I was not offended in any way.

Again, you COMPLETELY miss the fact that my post wasn't directed towards constructive critics. I don't think you're stupid so I'm begining to suspect you're just trolling me because you are actually a closet hater.

yeah...level headed....flinging insults by calling people stupid.

Krayzjoel · January 2009

Lets wait untilf Darkfall releases and then see what happens. Hope the games successful for everyone. Im neither a fanboi or hater. I just question the way Adventurine has gone about things is all.

skydragonren · January 2009

Could this thread actually Fail any more?

jy88902 · January 2009

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Seems i've offended alot of people. If you are offended by my original post you need to take a long hard look at yourself for a moment. Seems some people don't get that it's a combination of humor and simply to point out that it isn't just the blind followers being ridiculous.
The only reason why I didn't do this the opposite way is because the haters are the ones who bring themselves to this forum created for Darkfall.   They get themselves involved.
Furthermore, even though the 'fanboi' can be ridiculous, those who are critics about something choose to get themselves involved. Whereas, the fanboi gets involved because guess what? THEY ARE A FAN, this is the game they want to play, and they are hoping it lives up to the hype!  Furthermore, they want other people to play the game and enjoy it.
The 'fanboi' isn't out to hurt you, or at least the non-socialpathic ones, but tons of people seem to think that just because the fanboi wants their game to succeed and defends it religiously means that they are the enemies and they should be demonized.
Now, sure, there are idiots in this world who'll get to another game and proclaim how much better it is than that game without even playing it.   Every game, before they are released, have those idiots. But even generalizing all 'fanbois' in that category is wrong.
Do you people get my point now? The hater, or even the legitimate critic, got themselves involved so I don't feel sorry in the least bit for them.

What you fail to see is that the reasonable critics are fans too. Obviously nothing I can say will make you see that so I am done with this thread.

-edit-

BTW I was not offended in any way.

Again, you COMPLETELY miss the fact that my post wasn't directed towards constructive critics. I don't think you're stupid so I'm begining to suspect you're just trolling me because you are actually a closet hater.

yeah...level headed....flinging insults by calling people stupid.

My money's on him going with the "They started it" comeback that even my 8 yr old niece wouldn't be caught using.

Dethnoble · January 2009

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Seems i've offended alot of people. If you are offended by my original post you need to take a long hard look at yourself for a moment. Seems some people don't get that it's a combination of humor and simply to point out that it isn't just the blind followers being ridiculous.
The only reason why I didn't do this the opposite way is because the haters are the ones who bring themselves to this forum created for Darkfall.   They get themselves involved.
Furthermore, even though the 'fanboi' can be ridiculous, those who are critics about something choose to get themselves involved. Whereas, the fanboi gets involved because guess what? THEY ARE A FAN, this is the game they want to play, and they are hoping it lives up to the hype!  Furthermore, they want other people to play the game and enjoy it.
The 'fanboi' isn't out to hurt you, or at least the non-socialpathic ones, but tons of people seem to think that just because the fanboi wants their game to succeed and defends it religiously means that they are the enemies and they should be demonized.
Now, sure, there are idiots in this world who'll get to another game and proclaim how much better it is than that game without even playing it.   Every game, before they are released, have those idiots. But even generalizing all 'fanbois' in that category is wrong.
Do you people get my point now? The hater, or even the legitimate critic, got themselves involved so I don't feel sorry in the least bit for them.

just like to point out, while you say its the hater that brings themsleves to the darkfall forum, its also the fanbois that travel to other forums. There have been numerous campaigns both here and on the Darkfall forums, to go spread to word to every forum, or posti n EQ forums touting rediculous nonsense like "this game is exactly like EQ!" or whichever other said game they are posting in. Remember for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction.

Fanbois create trolls, trolls create fanbois.

And those same people are laughed at or, rightfully bashed, on those respective forums. However, once the people who decide to retaliate decide to come to DF's forums for 'revenge' they are the ones getting themselves involved here. My post was here, not there. If I was to post about this in the EQ forums I'd be making humor at the expense of the DF fan because, I agree, that is when they become ridiculous.

But this post is posted here in the DF forums and, surprise, it was therefore directed at the haters with 'ridiculous drivel' made towards DF fanbois. From my perspective, the ones who look like fools and idiots here are those 'haters'.

However, I want people to note that there are people here who post constructive criticism, who you can tell that believes this game really is going to flop, but they don't try to impose their viewpoint and they always offer up these criticism as opinions and never distort the facts. These type of people are both welcomed and contribute to intelligent, drivel free conversations.

So again if you feel offended by original post then maybe, just maybe you yourself was one of those haters I was alluded to and maybe, just maybe you don't see how funny it is you got exposed. =p

Kyleran · January 2009

Originally posted by Dethnoble

The truth is. Right or wrong about the actual 'game', what is wrong is haters who like to bash DF fans who post something positive, provide a constructive topic and then when those people make good arguments they proceed to dismiss their argument and resort to some other tactic:

"Oh... well the graphics are dated...." - Well, to many poster's eyes, they appear to be quite dated. They certainly don't measure up to AOC.

"Well the game has been in development for eight years..." - This is a fact. You fans keep trying to spin this another way, but its original start was 8 years ago. No matter they reorg'd, or restarted, the game has an 8 year cycle. Accept this please and move on.

"OH they have some publisher by the name of AudioVisual..." - Which is true. Who everf heard of these folks, and so far, by Tasos own admission they weren't prepared to hit the ground running with the distribuiton and are part of the cause of the delay. Seems a more prominent publisher might have been the way to go. (and lets not talk about the lack of a US publisher yet, something even TCOS has)

"Oh, well since Tasos doesn't come running when I want to know something he is obviously hiding things..." - Let's be serious. No game developer in recent history, even from other famous failed games has hidden their game from the light more than Aventurine. Its pretty obvious from the leaks he's definitely hiding something. How much remains to be seen.

"Oh, well since I'm not in closed-beta this is obviously another Dark and Light scam..." -No, people are saying that since they changed their minds on the pre-orders, its now resembling DnL and might just be a scam.

It's ridiculous. - No, but its amazing that you see the world through those rose colored glasses that most of us don't wear.

OP, in all of the posts you've made in this thread, you've exhibited the rabid fanboism that is so characteristic of your ilk.

You ignore obvious truths, spin them as lies (see list above) and have such faith in Aventurine its scary.

There are religions that require less faith than believing in DF/Aventurine.

TheHoweller · January 2009

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Seems i've offended alot of people. If you are offended by my original post you need to take a long hard look at yourself for a moment. Seems some people don't get that it's a combination of humor and simply to point out that it isn't just the blind followers being ridiculous.
The only reason why I didn't do this the opposite way is because the haters are the ones who bring themselves to this forum created for Darkfall.   They get themselves involved.
Furthermore, even though the 'fanboi' can be ridiculous, those who are critics about something choose to get themselves involved. Whereas, the fanboi gets involved because guess what? THEY ARE A FAN, this is the game they want to play, and they are hoping it lives up to the hype!  Furthermore, they want other people to play the game and enjoy it.
The 'fanboi' isn't out to hurt you, or at least the non-socialpathic ones, but tons of people seem to think that just because the fanboi wants their game to succeed and defends it religiously means that they are the enemies and they should be demonized.
Now, sure, there are idiots in this world who'll get to another game and proclaim how much better it is than that game without even playing it.   Every game, before they are released, have those idiots. But even generalizing all 'fanbois' in that category is wrong.
Do you people get my point now? The hater, or even the legitimate critic, got themselves involved so I don't feel sorry in the least bit for them.

I've to agree with atilzuh (sorry if it's spelled wrong)...You're attempting to clump everyone into two positions, "For" or "Against" this game, both only having one viewpoint. Not one of your posts admits that some "Fans" dislike Aventurine, not one.

It's not that we think fans of the game are stupid, that'd be calling ourselves stupid. It's actually that we think the actions of Aventurine have been ridiculous over the past few years. Yes, we understand that things don't always go as planned, we understand. But, we would like to be kept in the loop, offered a little more proof, and a little less reason for suspicion.

I'm sure you'll reply with some un-thoughtful assumption that I am actually trying to mislead people into thinking that Aventurine's attempting to scam everyone with pre-orders; I'm not. I actually am feeling very positive about Darkfall now that leaks are showing up from sources other than Aventurine. I'm still skeptical because not enough has been shown.

But, that is where Aventurine has failed. I'm still doubtful of their game, even though I'm VERY hyped up about it at the moment. Aventurine has caused this aura of suspicion by backing out of promises, lying, and acting pompous on multiple occasions...Please don't make me find sources, most are in interviews between Tasos and various websites...Look them up for yourself! I'll give you a tidbit of a quote, from memory.

(Tasos - Darkfall will offer many more skills than UO offered. Where UO offered 100, we will offer over 10 times that.) Earlier in the same interview, I believe it is the one between he, and this website. he claims that Darkfall is feature-complete and more ready than almost all MMOs at their launch, in its current state.

Dude, admit it, Aventurine made what "looks" like an awesome game. However, they are idiots because a good portion of their actions are thoughtless...

Second edit...

Wow, I need to read more critically.

Dethnoble · January 2009

miagisan,

Reread my post you commented about saying I called someone stupid. Afterwards, if you put aside your pride you might apologise for your false statement/

And then we have jy88902's response that completely sums up the way the haters work. Not only does he miss miagisan's mistake but then he runs with that mistake using it to make an insult.

skydragonren · January 2009

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Dethnoble

The truth is. Right or wrong about the actual 'game', what is wrong is haters who like to bash DF fans who post something positive, provide a constructive topic and then when those people make good arguments they proceed to dismiss their argument and resort to some other tactic:
"Oh... well the graphics are dated...." - Well, to many poster's eyes, they appear to be quite dated. They certainly don't measure up to AOC.
"Well the game has been in development for eight years..." - This is a fact. You fans keep trying to spin this another way, but its original start was 8 years ago. No matter they reorg'd, or restarted, the game has an 8 year cycle. Accept this please and move on.
"OH they have some publisher by the name of AudioVisual..." - Which is true. Who everf heard of these folks, and so far, by Tasos own admission they weren't prepared to hit the ground running with the distribuiton and are part of the cause of the delay. Seems a more prominent publisher might have been the way to go. (and lets not talk about the lack of a US publisher yet, something even TCOS has)
"Oh, well since Tasos doesn't come running when I want to know something he is obviously hiding things..." - Let's be serious. No game developer in recent history, even from other famous failed games has hidden their game from the light more than Aventurine. Its pretty obvious from the leaks he's definitely hiding something. How much remains to be seen.
"Oh, well since I'm not in closed-beta this is obviously another Dark and Light scam..." -No, people are saying that since they changed their minds on the pre-orders, its now resembling DnL and might just be a scam.
It's ridiculous. - No, but its amazing that you see the world through those rose colored glasses that most of us don't wear.

OP, in all of the posts you've made in this thread, you've exhibited the rabid fanboism that is so characteristic of your ilk.

You ignore obvious truths, spin them as lies (see list above) and have such faith in Aventurine its scary.

There are religions that require less faith than believing in DF/Aventurine.

I used to hate Kyleran, now not so much....

Kyleran 1 OP 0

Spoonpott · January 2009

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Seems i've offended alot of people. If you are offended by my original post you need to take a long hard look at yourself for a moment. Seems some people don't get that it's a combination of humor and simply to point out that it isn't just the blind followers being ridiculous.
The only reason why I didn't do this the opposite way is because the haters are the ones who bring themselves to this forum created for Darkfall.   They get themselves involved.
Furthermore, even though the 'fanboi' can be ridiculous, those who are critics about something choose to get themselves involved. Whereas, the fanboi gets involved because guess what? THEY ARE A FAN, this is the game they want to play, and they are hoping it lives up to the hype!  Furthermore, they want other people to play the game and enjoy it.
The 'fanboi' isn't out to hurt you, or at least the non-socialpathic ones, but tons of people seem to think that just because the fanboi wants their game to succeed and defends it religiously means that they are the enemies and they should be demonized.
Now, sure, there are idiots in this world who'll get to another game and proclaim how much better it is than that game without even playing it.   Every game, before they are released, have those idiots. But even generalizing all 'fanbois' in that category is wrong.
Do you people get my point now? The hater, or even the legitimate critic, got themselves involved so I don't feel sorry in the least bit for them.

Seems you missed the point here... all I can ask is that you re-read whats been written again and again. And no I dont feel offended, I feel sorry!

Also, quote:

"Do you people get my point now? The hater, or even the legitimate critic, got themselves involved so I don't feel sorry in the least bit for them."

You are still perceiving this as a duality, as a black and white thing, it shows among other stuff, that you missed the point, and as far as arguing with, that you're a desperate case.

corpusc · January 2009

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Dethnoble

Originally posted by atziluth

Again, you COMPLETELY miss the fact that my post wasn't directed towards constructive critics. I don't think you're stupid so I'm begining to suspect you're just trolling me because you are actually a closet hater.

yeah...level headed....flinging insults by calling people stupid.

he just said he DOESN'T think he's stupid. its no more an insult to say you suspect somebody is a closet hater than it is to say you think they are a closet fanboy. neither of which is nearly as direct as the common talk around here.

people are nonstop calling people flatout fanboys and haters all the time.

its all the other trash talk that gets people offended. at least for me. i'd never respond to somebody just coming in and calling me either one if thats all they say.

who here is offended by being called a fanboy or a hater?

Vortigon · January 2009

Change the word 'fanbois' to young, inexperienced dreamers. Then change 'hater' to Educator of the ignorant and gullible.

thinktank001 · January 2009

Originally posted by Dethnoble

miagisan,
Reread my post you commented about saying I called someone stupid. Afterwards, if you put aside your pride you might apologise for your false statement/

And then we have jy88902's response that completely sums up the way the haters work. Not only does he miss miagisan's mistake but then he runs with that mistake using it to make an insult.

The way you had mentioned the word stupid can be taken as an implied meaning. It maybe a different in cultures, but from where I'm at a response like that would be implying that you are saying he is stupid. The best route in your case would have been best not to mention that word at all.

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV