daarco not to burst your bubble has hidden die rolls -- it's an RPG... your character has stats -- there for there is some sort of random number involved somewhere along the line with combat... IE... shield block, or damage or a crit hit... so again I'm AM bursting your bubble... DF has dice... if there is no dice, then there skills mean nothing -- perhaps there skills are just a bunch of numbers to trick the users? I don't know yet... but there is indead hidden die rolls.
With hidden dicerolls i mean lvl vs lvl.
There is nothing that forbids you from hitting if you strike at someone with a weapon. If its in your reach, you will hit it. Same for blocking, if you put the shield between yourself and the opponents weapon.....its a block. Skills just add more damage or decreses the stamina drain.
So how do you feel Savage 2 combat system compared to WoW combat system? DF is atleast manual aimed and realtime without hidden dicerolls. Wich we can not say about WoW.
This begrudging wow in every other game's discussion forums is really getting old...
The rules of Debate are really simple; once you have to stoop to insults instead of facts, logic, or reason to try and win your argument, you've lost.
Savage 2 combat sucks balls. It's paper, rock, scissors all over again. Paper beats rocks beats scissors beats paper. What in the world is so revolusionary about that?
I hate people that don't give games a second chance, when they have a bad experience they just leave and never look back, this is what killed vangaurd, a great game atm, but no one plays it. Savage 2 updated their melee system to seem more like the S1 melee system. Its definitely not as good as S1's melee system, but unlike before, it actually takes skill (dodging was made like 10x more effective so its kindof like a "leap", you can no longer "interupt", and blocking no longer stuns but negates damage)
Anyway to the people who say takes no skill (though it does compared to the other forms of war in DF), try crouch dodging attacks and jumping over them too (i heard you can jump over horizontal swings, and its confirmed that you can crouch dodge a horizontal swing)
I can agree on the Vanguard part. A truely awesome game that didn't get the rep it deserved. It had it's flaws but it still stands out as one of the best PvE MMORPG's out today in my opinion. As for Savage 2. The simplified combat style is not my thing even with an overhaul. The idea behind it was awesome. Probably one of the best ideas i have seen in a game in decades. The only problem it has was dumbed down combat. If it had the finesse of the best class based MMO's out there it would have been a sure winner
Savage 2 combat sucks balls. It's paper, rock, scissors all over again. Paper beats rocks beats scissors beats paper. What in the world is so revolusionary about that?
I hate people that don't give games a second chance, when they have a bad experience they just leave and never look back, this is what killed vangaurd, a great game atm, but no one plays it. Savage 2 updated their melee system to seem more like the S1 melee system. Its definitely not as good as S1's melee system, but unlike before, it actually takes skill (dodging was made like 10x more effective so its kindof like a "leap", you can no longer "interupt", and blocking no longer stuns but negates damage)
Anyway to the people who say takes no skill (though it does compared to the other forms of war in DF), try crouch dodging attacks and jumping over them too (i heard you can jump over horizontal swings, and its confirmed that you can crouch dodge a horizontal swing)
Last I heard Df only had one hit box. So if someone is aiming for the head there a noob. Just aim for the groin. Unless players jumper higher than mike itll hit there feet and there neck when they duck. win win situation.
And I never played Savage but AoC pwns all melee combat. 3 vs 1 earlier today. 1 archer and 2 knights vs my footman. Im floating like a butterfly between them and stinging the archer like a bee. Then suddenly bam cut off the archers head. I duck and watch the knight chop off his friends head then I stabed the last knight in the back.
Thats real melee combat. I like mmorpgs but combat always sucks in em. Who cares if its fps or top down or 1.2.3.4 button spaming with cooldowns. It still takes 50 presses of a key to kill someone. And aiming in the general direction of someone (which is what DF and Conan have) while spaming a button 50 times isnt amazing combat.
Try the game out. Everyone has HL2. Its a common fact that dolphins own atleast two copies. Download Age of Chivalry. And experince the uberness that is skilled melee combat.
daarco not to burst your bubble has hidden die rolls -- it's an RPG... your character has stats -- there for there is some sort of random number involved somewhere along the line with combat... IE... shield block, or damage or a crit hit... so again I'm AM bursting your bubble... DF has dice... if there is no dice, then there skills mean nothing -- perhaps there skills are just a bunch of numbers to trick the users? I don't know yet... but there is indead hidden die rolls.
With hidden dicerolls i mean lvl vs lvl.
There is nothing that forbids you from hitting if you strike at someone with a weapon. If its in your reach, you will hit it. Same for blocking, if you put the shield between yourself and the opponents weapon.....its a block. Skills just add more damage or decreses the stamina drain.
There are no hidden dicerolls based on lvl vs lvl in wow.
For every level your character gains in wow, it gains more defence rating too. The reason why a low level character will miss a high level character a lot in wow is because of this defence rating.
It's clear that you don't like a level based game. This doesn't mean that level based games are not good, it just means that it isn't your taste.
Savage 2 combat sucks balls. It's paper, rock, scissors all over again. Paper beats rocks beats scissors beats paper. What in the world is so revolusionary about that?
From the sounds of it the Developers and players of DF seem to think repeatedly clicking the left mouse button is revolutionary...
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Savage 2 Just pointing out that i have no clue why people say the two swing combat of darkfall is so amazing.
MrBloodWorth, have you played Darkfall yet?
HAVE YOU?
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
TCOS for the win ... you'll see true open world pvp... in tcos.. so wait and see and it's actualy dodge attack battles.. not a stat based game either and look at the lore. PURE QUALITY
CLOSED BETA FOR ACCLAIMS VERSION THIS WEEK if your lucky you could well get in...
AND THE IP BLOCK IS TO BE RELEASED SO EU AND US CAN PLAY TOGETHER!!!
Savage 2 Just pointing out that i have no clue why people say the two swing combat of darkfall is so amazing.
MrBloodWorth, have you played Darkfall yet?
HAVE YOU?
why don't you answer his question?
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Savage 2 Just pointing out that i have no clue why people say the two swing combat of darkfall is so amazing.
MrBloodWorth, have you played Darkfall yet?
HAVE YOU?
why don't you answer his question?
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
and yet you have still not answered his question.
why didn't you post the rest of that wiki article??
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I don't understand how you can make an argument against the combat system, if you have not participated in said combat system. Any information you bring to the table is merely conjecture and heresay, and is not valid at all.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I vote mr bloodworth for the most ironic poster of the year award.
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I vote mr bloodworth for the most ironic poster of the year award.
Yet you fail to see his point or answer his questions as well.
For myself, I had about 20 hours towards the end of beta of play time. I was not in beta, but used a friends account.
The game lacks depth and many skills lack utility. It is more about different ways to do direct damage rather then gaining tactical advantages and perfecting strategies.
Hopefully they will increase the utility components of combat (blocking, CC, coordination tactics) added the needed depth to make this an RPG rather then a giant CS knife fight. I will wait for the NA release before I make a final decision to play or scrap this game. In it's current state it is rather shallow in every aspect. This is fine for some people and I am glad they are having fun, but it falls far far short of the praise that some on here are giving it. Best MMO ever it clearly is not.
Having played both savage2 and DF, I agree with the OP... it does have more depth of combat even with the simple mechanics that have nothing to do with the tech tree (right click dodge/charge, active purposeful blocking, attack combos) that make even the most basic combat engaging.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Comments
With hidden dicerolls i mean lvl vs lvl.
There is nothing that forbids you from hitting if you strike at someone with a weapon. If its in your reach, you will hit it. Same for blocking, if you put the shield between yourself and the opponents weapon.....its a block. Skills just add more damage or decreses the stamina drain.
savage 2 has a few problems
it sucks
no one plays
crappy servers
Its an echo in the DF forums.
So how do you feel Savage 2 combat system compared to WoW combat system? DF is atleast manual aimed and realtime without hidden dicerolls. Wich we can not say about WoW.
This begrudging wow in every other game's discussion forums is really getting old...
The rules of Debate are really simple; once you have to stoop to insults instead of facts, logic, or reason to try and win your argument, you've lost.
I hate people that don't give games a second chance, when they have a bad experience they just leave and never look back, this is what killed vangaurd, a great game atm, but no one plays it. Savage 2 updated their melee system to seem more like the S1 melee system. Its definitely not as good as S1's melee system, but unlike before, it actually takes skill (dodging was made like 10x more effective so its kindof like a "leap", you can no longer "interupt", and blocking no longer stuns but negates damage)
Anyway to the people who say takes no skill (though it does compared to the other forms of war in DF), try crouch dodging attacks and jumping over them too (i heard you can jump over horizontal swings, and its confirmed that you can crouch dodge a horizontal swing)
I can agree on the Vanguard part. A truely awesome game that didn't get the rep it deserved. It had it's flaws but it still stands out as one of the best PvE MMORPG's out today in my opinion. As for Savage 2. The simplified combat style is not my thing even with an overhaul. The idea behind it was awesome. Probably one of the best ideas i have seen in a game in decades. The only problem it has was dumbed down combat. If it had the finesse of the best class based MMO's out there it would have been a sure winner
I hate people that don't give games a second chance, when they have a bad experience they just leave and never look back, this is what killed vangaurd, a great game atm, but no one plays it. Savage 2 updated their melee system to seem more like the S1 melee system. Its definitely not as good as S1's melee system, but unlike before, it actually takes skill (dodging was made like 10x more effective so its kindof like a "leap", you can no longer "interupt", and blocking no longer stuns but negates damage)
Anyway to the people who say takes no skill (though it does compared to the other forms of war in DF), try crouch dodging attacks and jumping over them too (i heard you can jump over horizontal swings, and its confirmed that you can crouch dodge a horizontal swing)
Last I heard Df only had one hit box. So if someone is aiming for the head there a noob. Just aim for the groin. Unless players jumper higher than mike itll hit there feet and there neck when they duck. win win situation.
And I never played Savage but AoC pwns all melee combat. 3 vs 1 earlier today. 1 archer and 2 knights vs my footman. Im floating like a butterfly between them and stinging the archer like a bee. Then suddenly bam cut off the archers head. I duck and watch the knight chop off his friends head then I stabed the last knight in the back.
Thats real melee combat. I like mmorpgs but combat always sucks in em. Who cares if its fps or top down or 1.2.3.4 button spaming with cooldowns. It still takes 50 presses of a key to kill someone. And aiming in the general direction of someone (which is what DF and Conan have) while spaming a button 50 times isnt amazing combat.
Try the game out. Everyone has HL2. Its a common fact that dolphins own atleast two copies. Download Age of Chivalry. And experince the uberness that is skilled melee combat.
HMS Promise Vs. Savage 2 gameplay comparison video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPWgvXcOVWg
With hidden dicerolls i mean lvl vs lvl.
There is nothing that forbids you from hitting if you strike at someone with a weapon. If its in your reach, you will hit it. Same for blocking, if you put the shield between yourself and the opponents weapon.....its a block. Skills just add more damage or decreses the stamina drain.
There are no hidden dicerolls based on lvl vs lvl in wow.
For every level your character gains in wow, it gains more defence rating too. The reason why a low level character will miss a high level character a lot in wow is because of this defence rating.
It's clear that you don't like a level based game. This doesn't mean that level based games are not good, it just means that it isn't your taste.
From the sounds of it the Developers and players of DF seem to think repeatedly clicking the left mouse button is revolutionary...
Darkfall combat consists rocks trying to run close enough to other rocks to hit them, then either circle strafing or backpedaling.
If anyone thinks this combat is "new and revolutionary" they should be sent to play Elder Scrolls: Morrowind, if not an older title.
I'd rather hold out for a Planetside 2 or such clone, fun game that has been plagued with poor developer support on part of $OE.
Excellent example.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Excellent example.
Ok you convinced me i'll give it a try............Savage 2 that is.........
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
MrBloodWorth, have you played Darkfall yet?
splat
MrBloodWorth, have you played Darkfall yet?
HAVE YOU?
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
No TCOS has a system that makes DF look like a freaking pile of shit.
www.youtube.com/watch
Jah Rasta For I.
The Wicked Shall Fall..
http://www.ethnic2020.com/images/Ebay/black-jesus.jpg
TCOS for the win ... you'll see true open world pvp... in tcos.. so wait and see and it's actualy dodge attack battles.. not a stat based game either and look at the lore. PURE QUALITY
CLOSED BETA FOR ACCLAIMS VERSION THIS WEEK if your lucky you could well get in...
AND THE IP BLOCK IS TO BE RELEASED SO EU AND US CAN PLAY TOGETHER!!!
It's all Lies...
MrBloodWorth, have you played Darkfall yet?
HAVE YOU?
why don't you answer his question?
MrBloodWorth, have you played Darkfall yet?
HAVE YOU?
why don't you answer his question?
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
MrBloodWorth, have you played Darkfall yet?
HAVE YOU?
why don't you answer his question?
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
and yet you have still not answered his question.
why didn't you post the rest of that wiki article??
Its irrelevant to the topic.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
how so?
I don't understand how you can make an argument against the combat system, if you have not participated in said combat system. Any information you bring to the table is merely conjecture and heresay, and is not valid at all.
Tell me where i was wrong in my assessment then.
You can't. Its two swings and a blue ball.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I vote mr bloodworth for the most ironic poster of the year award.
I vote mr bloodworth for the most ironic poster of the year award.
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Yet you fail to see his point or answer his questions as well.
For myself, I had about 20 hours towards the end of beta of play time. I was not in beta, but used a friends account.
The game lacks depth and many skills lack utility. It is more about different ways to do direct damage rather then gaining tactical advantages and perfecting strategies.
Hopefully they will increase the utility components of combat (blocking, CC, coordination tactics) added the needed depth to make this an RPG rather then a giant CS knife fight. I will wait for the NA release before I make a final decision to play or scrap this game. In it's current state it is rather shallow in every aspect. This is fine for some people and I am glad they are having fun, but it falls far far short of the praise that some on here are giving it. Best MMO ever it clearly is not.
Having played both savage2 and DF, I agree with the OP... it does have more depth of combat even with the simple mechanics that have nothing to do with the tech tree (right click dodge/charge, active purposeful blocking, attack combos) that make even the most basic combat engaging.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.