I am neither. I am actually playing the game and enjoying it. I guess you could call me opinionated. Your just one of those people who have not got an account yet and given it a try. I am not here to fight like most children do. Opinions are like arseholes everyones got one.....I gave my opinion.....you didnt like it.......move on then.
The Shikkadance Cometh!
HhusskCity of Heroes CorrespondentMemberPosts: 219
Obviously my definition of sandbox differs from others.
Darkfall is pretty much a sandbox. The players determine the economy, and since they can create anything in the game, the prices are stabilizing depending the need. One thing I noticed, was how the price or iron ore went up shortly after a patch that caused weapon and armor durabilities to shorten and break.
Once again, players determined the pricing.
Stealth, in Darkfall, is not a button you can press. It's an act you perform in any way you can. You literally have to create your method of stealth. I'm not about to reveal mine, but some obvious factors are, hugging to shadows, hiding behind bushes and trees, staying out of the periphery of other people. Even the weapon you use becomes important. If you use magic, you'll have a magical glowing aura around you and be much easier to detect. But if you use a bow and arrow, a sniper shot can be near impossible to figure.
Therefore, stealth is determined by the player.
Politics, in Darkfall, is more complicated than an any other game of played. Now, it doesn't matter who you are simply allied with or at war with. It matters what other people in the area think about you. A clan I'm involved with literally had a meeting with all their allies, simply to determine if moving to another area was worthwhile. They sent "spies" to the are, which was quite a long journey, to gather information about other clans in the area. Troop sizes, races, current warring factions, the availability of resources.
And so, political sparring is very much controlled by the players.
Those are just a few reasons why I consider it to be a sandbox.
Ladies, gentlieman, the game has so far impressed me. What hasn't impressed me, though, is the number of crashes and the hacking. To balance out my "glowing" commentary, those issues absolutely need to be addressed and eradicated.
----------------------------- Blog -Transcendent''s Tomb - Reviews, Polls, and tortured opinions from the minions of MMORPGS
I am neither. I am actually playing the game and enjoying it. I guess you could call me opinionated. Your just one of those people who have not got an account yet and given it a try. I am not here to fight like most children do. Opinions are like arseholes everyones got one.....I gave my opinion.....you didnt like it.......move on then.
No, I do believe your post was based off ignorance. Because Everquest was founded upon skills. But skill related to you as a citizen, person or class. When you meditated, you gained skill in meditation. The higher your skill, the greater the amount of mane you received every tick you were siting and meditating. Once you gained a certain skill, you no longer had to look at the spell book while you meditated. That illustrated your beginning master of this skill and were able to do more than just meditate, but now could look around..etc.
Swimming was the exact same way. The better you got at swiming meant the fast you could swim.
I can go on & on & on.. Everquest has more skills than Darkfall has Abilities or even spells. Darkfall is extrmely limited for a game released in 2009. It cannot even claim to have more open-ended features than Everquest or Ultima Online. Both of which were released 10 years ago.
Perhaps newbies like Shikk, never knew of these games or their features. But it's clear he doesn't understand the interaction between character skills and abilities.
Because you can do anything you want, if all you want is fighting.
Isnt this a bit "shortminded" for this thread? You know there is more to do then combat. You know many play just to be a crafter, trade, explorer or guild leader.
Can't you do that in any game where you have those features? For instance in WoW I could be those things, I could just do nothing but crafting or, I could just go around exploring all day, and never fight one thing If I don't want to. I know, I know WoW is a theme park game but you can still only do those things if you really wanted to. You cannot. In WoW you need lvl 35 to lvl a crafting skill to skill 300. You need lvl 45 to raise to 375. You need lvl 45 to go cap 450. As for collection, yes you can max collection skills any level you want, but you need to kill a 75+ mob to skin you way to cap 450. You cannot do that at character lvl 1.
You don't have to kill things in any game if you don't want to, but you won't get to a higher level combat wise if you don't. But I play these types of games to go on an adventure and kill things as well be those things on the side.. Just like in DnD I played as an adventurer, it would be boring if all i did in dnd is craft things and build houses. Thats just me of course and its cool if thats all what people want to do, im fine with that. You need to kill things to get hide, to clear path to herbs. You need to kill things to get the rare recipes, you need to kill things to get reputation for reputation recipes.
Features I call sandbox would be.
1) Building things wherever you want to.
2) Players actions influence the game world for everyone not just them selves. e.g. if im a orc and I start killing a bunch of humans, the humans will hate all orc players. Unlike WoW where if I kill a faction and they just hate me and not my whole race. Also there could be ways to get on their good side again if you wanted to.
3) The freedom to do whatever you want without being gimped in some sort of way.
That's all I can think of right now but I think a lot of people have the misconseption of what a sandbox game is. What did you do when you were young and played in the sandbox? You built things and manipulated the sand how you wanted it to be.
A sandbox game to me = players can manipulate the game for all others to see and their actions effect all players. Thats all simple as that.
I am a WoW player. I like the way the game provides variety. But in this specific area of crafting, WoW is a bit restrictive. I am forced to level my crafting toon to 45 and later to max level b/c i need reputation, and you do not start getting quests to open up factions and then grind reputating, until say 78 (for sons of holdir).
Sorry but that's just not right. A lot of other MMOs players determine the economy. Maybe not to the extent but a sandbox mmo is not determinded by "the extent" a sandbox is called that because well it's like sand in that there is nothing and you create what is there like sand castles for example.
Everything people are saying is in other MMOs... again the only reason people think this is sandbox is because of the lack of content. It's kind of a joke. fyi there are other mmos where anyone can attack you outside of the city ect ect.
If you like the game then you like the game and that's great. But trying to defend it as a sandbox mmo is kinda silly.
I am a WoW player. I like the way the game provides variety. But in this specific area of crafting, WoW is a bit restrictive. I am forced to level my crafting toon to 45 and later to max level b/c i need reputation, and you do not start getting quests to open up factions and then grind reputating, until say 78 (for sons of holdir).
To be fair, it's there for a very good reason, as otherwise you'd have people powerlevelling professions on level one characters to allow themselves to be entirely self sufficient. (Which is almost never good in an MMO.)
EDIT: Dear god, do the Darkfall kiddies report EVERY non-Darkfall post they see?
Ok the reason Darkfall is sandbox.........is because if you go out of town........anyone can kill you and loot you. That pretty much makes it diffrent than all the ones you listed. It is also skill based. You use a sword you gain swords. Its not just running around in a safe haven killing mobs to gain exp that gives you exp in everything. You sprint ...you gain sprint......you swim you gain swim. you rest you gain rest. Its not go here kill this to such and such a level....then go to this place. QUESTION ANSWERED.
You have no clue whatsoever what a sandbox game is.
Don't know why I am here other than I just read 50% of this argument. I am dumbfounded as to how many newcomers there are here and how loud-mouthed and basicaly confratational and wrong you wannabee's are!! The term "sandbox" is not new term and what it means, cannot be changed because a newbie fanboi feels like using it as a defense mechnism. Darkfall is in no way a Sanbox MMORPG! Everquest is more a "sandbox" and open-ended than Darkfall... even though DFO is suppose to have open-world and be classless. Because Darkfall has no veriety within those core elements! It's a Class-free game, yet you don't see anyone playing roles within combat. Thus, Darkfall's system is clearly limited and not open-ended. Feature by feature - Darkfall has two sandbox elements, that are extremely restrictive and confining. Thus even Darkfall's combat and skill tree are unworthy of the sandbox name. Yet, even in Everquest Warriors harvested, and learned alchemy because they couldn't gate (portal spell), so they learned other means in which to remove themselves from a dungeon, battle, etc.
I would really like to investigate many claims of why people ignorantly think Darkfall is a sandbox game. I played it, followed it for some time and just didn't see the value in this game. But I'm not delusional and understand the shortcomming of this game and why it isn't even a niche game. Perhaps those who feel that Darkfall is a Sandbox MMORPG could explain the game history and what they liked about the "other" games they played. And why you think Darkfall offers a "sanbox" feel.
Your definition and examples are nothing like what 'sandbox' is generally accepted to mean.
the 'purest' definition of sandbox is whether the game is primarily based on player-created content versus developer-created content.
darkfall is unquestioningly a sandbox game. re-read the first 2 replies in the thread for specifics.
Politics, in Darkfall, is more complicated than an any other game of played. Now, it doesn't matter who you are simply allied with or at war with. It matters what other people in the area think about you. A clan I'm involved with literally had a meeting with all their allies, simply to determine if moving to another area was worthwhile. They sent "spies" to the are, which was quite a long journey, to gather information about other clans in the area. Troop sizes, races, current warring factions, the availability of resources. And so, political sparring is very much controlled by the players.
We who play EVE would challenge your assertion. Lineage 2 players have had outstanding player politics for years as well.
But this thread is about DF, and I agree, the player politics is a key component in determining if DF is a sandbox type game. Players control and defend territory to a greater extent than a more linear game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Politics, in Darkfall, is more complicated than an any other game of played. Now, it doesn't matter who you are simply allied with or at war with. It matters what other people in the area think about you. A clan I'm involved with literally had a meeting with all their allies, simply to determine if moving to another area was worthwhile. They sent "spies" to the are, which was quite a long journey, to gather information about other clans in the area. Troop sizes, races, current warring factions, the availability of resources. And so, political sparring is very much controlled by the players.
We who play EVE would challenge your assertion. Lineage 2 players have had outstanding player politics for years as well.
But this thread is about DF, and I agree, the player politics is a key component in determining if DF is a sandbox type game. Players control and defend territory to a greater extent than a more linear game.
Whats so outstanding with Lineage 2's and Darkfall's political system?
It's just a system of Lords, Vassals and Peasants like you had in the real world a millennia ago.
The Lords will be the leaders of powerful guilds, the vassals will be the members of that guild plus the members of lesser guilds in alliance with the powerful guild, the peasants will be guildless players or players in weak guilds.
Don't know why I am here other than I just read 50% of this argument. I am dumbfounded as to how many newcomers there are here and how loud-mouthed and basicaly confratational and wrong you wannabee's are!! The term "sandbox" is not new term and what it means, cannot be changed because a newbie fanboi feels like using it as a defense mechnism. Darkfall is in no way a Sanbox MMORPG! Everquest is more a "sandbox" and open-ended than Darkfall... even though DFO is suppose to have open-world and be classless. Because Darkfall has no veriety within those core elements! It's a Class-free game, yet you don't see anyone playing roles within combat. Thus, Darkfall's system is clearly limited and not open-ended. Feature by feature - Darkfall has two sandbox elements, that are extremely restrictive and confining. Thus even Darkfall's combat and skill tree are unworthy of the sandbox name. Yet, even in Everquest Warriors harvested, and learned alchemy because they couldn't gate (portal spell), so they learned other means in which to remove themselves from a dungeon, battle, etc.
I would really like to investigate many claims of why people ignorantly think Darkfall is a sandbox game. I played it, followed it for some time and just didn't see the value in this game. But I'm not delusional and understand the shortcomming of this game and why it isn't even a niche game. Perhaps those who feel that Darkfall is a Sandbox MMORPG could explain the game history and what they liked about the "other" games they played. And why you think Darkfall offers a "sanbox" feel.
Your definition and examples are nothing like what 'sandbox' is generally accepted to mean.
the 'purest' definition of sandbox is whether the game is primarily based on player-created content versus developer-created content.
darkfall is unquestioningly a sandbox game. re-read the first 2 replies in the thread for specifics.
hmm.. did you even read my post? *scratches head*
I directly refute your arguement above. Restrictive combat is not open-ended. Therefore your choices are limited and not based on the sandbox principals.
Content has nothing to do with whether a game is sanbox or not, it what you can do with the said content, that makes it a sandbox style game. Classless (skill based) games, typically have a sandbox feel to them, unless the skill tree is more limited amd small. Where as some class based games have massive build-outs and allow for greater diversity.
Since in Darkfall you cannot play traditional roles, (the developer's ideas and vision weren't that deep)... you are left with limited abilities within Darkfall. Melee combat is used 90% of almost all deaths, instead of a plethora on debuffing, doting, criticle healing, nukes, arrow flurries, backstabs w/poison...etc.
Instead, you have overhead swing and slash+knockback...
Extremely limiting. Even after 4 weeks of playing you have less abilities,less attack, less veriety than a lvl 5 Warrior in Everquest. So, the term sandbox is used as a feature by feature context. No amount of trolling or backpadeling is going to change the ignorance in your statements!
Originally posted by Anvil_Theory Since in Darkfall you cannot play traditional roles, (the developer's ideas and vision weren't that deep)... you are left with limited abilities within Darkfall. Melee combat is used 90% of almost all deaths, instead of a plethora on debuffing, doting, criticle healing, nukes, arrow flurries, backstabs w/poison...etc. Instead, you have overhead swing and slash+knockback... Extremely limiting. Even after 4 weeks of playing you have less abilities,less attack, less veriety than a lvl 5 Warrior in Everquest. So, the term sandbox is used as a feature by feature context. No amount of trolling or backpadeling is going to change the ignorance in your statements!
Interesting, save for the reality of the game itself...
Darkfall is no more a sandbox than Shadowbane was.
Both offered large, empty and open worlds.
Both offered building of cities in pre-determined locations in dev controlled layouts.
Both offered FFA PvP.
Both offered only a few viable player roles.
I love reading the threads that say you can be whatever you want in Darkfall. No, you can't. To be successful, you will raise melee, magic, AND archery. You will also wear the heaviest armor you can find since there is no truly negative effect once you get your armor related skills raised up. You can't be nothing but a crafter because it just isn't possible. You need mats to make items, you need gold to make items, you need to kill things to get gold. Sure, you could sell your mats and then farm more to make the item, but that is just going to increase your craft time, and reduce your profits.
There is no game outside of the city sieging PvP game. The PvE SUCKs. The crafting SUCKS (deny this and you are on crack, or you just love self initiated abuse). There are two roles you can play in Darkfall, the first is PvP player, the second is PvP player that makes items. That's it. Compare that to something like UO or SWG and you will see exactly why Darkfall isn't a true sandbox.
A large, empty world =/= sandbox. A sandbox is a game with true player created content, not just cities built in the spots the devs allowed them to be built for the sole purpose of grinding and PVP. That's all the cities really are in truth. They are nothing more than a place for guilds to grind so they can PVP, and a place where PVP happens. That does not make a game a sandbox. A sandbox needs to offer players that want nothing more than PvE a game to play; players that want nothing more than PVP a game to play; players that want nothing more than crafting a game to play; players that want to run a tavern a game to play; players that want to be a thief WITHOUT killing a game to play; etc, etc.
Sandboxes are made by fluff and true choice, not just an open world with player built cities. Too many of you confuse Darkfall's lack of content for being a sandbox. The game Darkfall was SUPPOSED to be would have been a sandbox, the game we got is a huge team deathmatch with player made items.
For the record, I will not deny that Darkfall is open ended and mildly enjoyable. Unlike some of you in this thread, I actually play it so I speak from experience. I will also say that it does have the foundation for being a sandbox, or the box if you will, but it is lacking in the sand.
Don't know why I am here other than I just read 50% of this argument. I am dumbfounded as to how many newcomers there are here and how loud-mouthed and basicaly confratational and wrong you wannabee's are!! The term "sandbox" is not new term and what it means, cannot be changed because a newbie fanboi feels like using it as a defense mechnism. Darkfall is in no way a Sanbox MMORPG! Everquest is more a "sandbox" and open-ended than Darkfall... even though DFO is suppose to have open-world and be classless. Because Darkfall has no veriety within those core elements! It's a Class-free game, yet you don't see anyone playing roles within combat. Thus, Darkfall's system is clearly limited and not open-ended. Feature by feature - Darkfall has two sandbox elements, that are extremely restrictive and confining. Thus even Darkfall's combat and skill tree are unworthy of the sandbox name. Yet, even in Everquest Warriors harvested, and learned alchemy because they couldn't gate (portal spell), so they learned other means in which to remove themselves from a dungeon, battle, etc.
I would really like to investigate many claims of why people ignorantly think Darkfall is a sandbox game. I played it, followed it for some time and just didn't see the value in this game. But I'm not delusional and understand the shortcomming of this game and why it isn't even a niche game. Perhaps those who feel that Darkfall is a Sandbox MMORPG could explain the game history and what they liked about the "other" games they played. And why you think Darkfall offers a "sanbox" feel.
Your definition and examples are nothing like what 'sandbox' is generally accepted to mean.
the 'purest' definition of sandbox is whether the game is primarily based on player-created content versus developer-created content.
darkfall is unquestioningly a sandbox game. re-read the first 2 replies in the thread for specifics.
hmm.. did you even read my post? *scratches head*
I directly refute your arguement above. Restrictive combat is not open-ended. Therefore your choices are limited and not based on the sandbox principals.
Content has nothing to do with whether a game is sanbox or not, it what you can do with the said content, that makes it a sandbox style game. Classless (skill based) games, typically have a sandbox feel to them, unless the skill tree is more limited amd small. Where as some class based games have massive build-outs and allow for greater diversity.
Since in Darkfall you cannot play traditional roles, (the developer's ideas and vision weren't that deep)... you are left with limited abilities within Darkfall. Melee combat is used 90% of almost all deaths, instead of a plethora on debuffing, doting, criticle healing, nukes, arrow flurries, backstabs w/poison...etc.
Instead, you have overhead swing and slash+knockback...
Extremely limiting. Even after 4 weeks of playing you have less abilities,less attack, less veriety than a lvl 5 Warrior in Everquest. So, the term sandbox is used as a feature by feature context. No amount of trolling or backpadeling is going to change the ignorance in your statements!
nothing is apparently going to change your totally wrong understanding of what 'sandbox' means. the fact is, you can be whatever you want in Darkfall, therefore it's sandbox. a warlock in WOW will always be a warlock.
Don't know why I am here other than I just read 50% of this argument. I am dumbfounded as to how many newcomers there are here and how loud-mouthed and basicaly confratational and wrong you wannabee's are!! The term "sandbox" is not new term and what it means, cannot be changed because a newbie fanboi feels like using it as a defense mechnism. Darkfall is in no way a Sanbox MMORPG! Everquest is more a "sandbox" and open-ended than Darkfall... even though DFO is suppose to have open-world and be classless. Because Darkfall has no veriety within those core elements! It's a Class-free game, yet you don't see anyone playing roles within combat. Thus, Darkfall's system is clearly limited and not open-ended. Feature by feature - Darkfall has two sandbox elements, that are extremely restrictive and confining. Thus even Darkfall's combat and skill tree are unworthy of the sandbox name. Yet, even in Everquest Warriors harvested, and learned alchemy because they couldn't gate (portal spell), so they learned other means in which to remove themselves from a dungeon, battle, etc.
I would really like to investigate many claims of why people ignorantly think Darkfall is a sandbox game. I played it, followed it for some time and just didn't see the value in this game. But I'm not delusional and understand the shortcomming of this game and why it isn't even a niche game. Perhaps those who feel that Darkfall is a Sandbox MMORPG could explain the game history and what they liked about the "other" games they played. And why you think Darkfall offers a "sanbox" feel.
Your definition and examples are nothing like what 'sandbox' is generally accepted to mean.
the 'purest' definition of sandbox is whether the game is primarily based on player-created content versus developer-created content.
darkfall is unquestioningly a sandbox game. re-read the first 2 replies in the thread for specifics.
hmm.. did you even read my post? *scratches head*
I directly refute your arguement above. Restrictive combat is not open-ended. Therefore your choices are limited and not based on the sandbox principals.
Content has nothing to do with whether a game is sanbox or not, it what you can do with the said content, that makes it a sandbox style game. Classless (skill based) games, typically have a sandbox feel to them, unless the skill tree is more limited amd small. Where as some class based games have massive build-outs and allow for greater diversity.
Since in Darkfall you cannot play traditional roles, (the developer's ideas and vision weren't that deep)... you are left with limited abilities within Darkfall. Melee combat is used 90% of almost all deaths, instead of a plethora on debuffing, doting, criticle healing, nukes, arrow flurries, backstabs w/poison...etc.
Instead, you have overhead swing and slash+knockback...
Extremely limiting. Even after 4 weeks of playing you have less abilities,less attack, less veriety than a lvl 5 Warrior in Everquest. So, the term sandbox is used as a feature by feature context. No amount of trolling or backpadeling is going to change the ignorance in your statements!
nothing is apparently going to change your totally wrong understanding of what 'sandbox' means. the fact is, you can be whatever you want in Darkfall, therefore it's sandbox. a warlock in WOW will always be a warlock.
DUH.
A game with nonlinear gameplay presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Whereas a more linear game will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges, a less linear game will allow greater player freedom. For example, a nonlinear game may permit multiple sequences to finish the game, a choice between paths to victory, or optional side-quests and subplots. Some games feature both linear and nonlinear elements, and some games offer a sandbox mode that allows players to explore the game environment independently from the game's main objectives.
Honestly all games have this. You can go outside the games main objective.
all games have this. You can go outside the games main objective.
hence why a dozen posts back Kyleran correctly noted that sandbox is a graduation of 'more sandbox' to 'less sandbox'. Darkfall is on the more sandbox side by far, cause there *are* no objectives, and numerous playstyles are supported through wide & deep crafting options, player-built cities/towns, ships, mounts, weaps, armour, objects. no levels, no classes, no sticky targeting, no pvp restrictions, full loot, friendly fire, unrestricted, realistic world.
contrast this with WOW, the archetypal themepark game: linear progression of level 1->80 then linear progression of raid content, and extremely limited PVP options.
Politics, in Darkfall, is more complicated than an any other game of played. Now, it doesn't matter who you are simply allied with or at war with. It matters what other people in the area think about you. A clan I'm involved with literally had a meeting with all their allies, simply to determine if moving to another area was worthwhile. They sent "spies" to the are, which was quite a long journey, to gather information about other clans in the area. Troop sizes, races, current warring factions, the availability of resources. And so, political sparring is very much controlled by the players.
We who play EVE would challenge your assertion. Lineage 2 players have had outstanding player politics for years as well.
But this thread is about DF, and I agree, the player politics is a key component in determining if DF is a sandbox type game. Players control and defend territory to a greater extent than a more linear game.
No zones No instances No levels No classes No limit to what you can fight No limit to what you can craft No limit to where you can go.
Think that pretty much covers it.
Really? No limit to what you can craft? Well, let me know what materials you need. I'd like a pink sword with a Hello Kitty handle. I'll pick it up in-game in a few days...
EDIT: Oh, and BTW, you can deliver it to me personally. I'm currently flying at 60,000 feet with the new wings I crafted for myself...oh wait...I can't go into the air...aaaaiiiiieeeeeee...splat...
Thread title: Why do you consider Darkfall to be sandbox? Because I'm not funnelled into doing things a certain way like WoW, WAR, LotRO. I am free to do what I want.
Then try creating a weapon purely of your own design. Oh wait, you need a recipe? And there are a finite number of recipes to choose your creation from? Like hell you're not funneled into doing things certain way.
Try making your own armor. Or building a home from the ground up using your own designs. Oh wait, can't do those things either.
DFO is an OPEN-ENDED GAME, not a SANDBOX. Stop confusing the two.
Take away all user-created content in DFO and you have left....uh...pretty much everything in the game. Take away all user-created content in Second Life, a REAL sandbox, and you have left ....uh...an entire server farm of flat land or ocean waiting to be terraformed, a physics engine waiting for objects to interact with, and plain avatars waiting for someone to give them a shape/skin/eyes/hair/clothing.
Great reply. key note: "DFO is an OPEN-ENDED GAME, not a SANDBOX. Stop confusing the two."
Do I consider DF a sandbox: NO
Will I give it a try and keep an open mind despite its flaws compared to UO/EVE: YES
I recently started playing DF out of boredom, my entire guild decided to pass after members playing DF left immediately after months of testing by clearly pointing out its major flaws. Had it been a new release game, we can excuse these flaws and give it a year or 2, but this game has been in development for 8 years.
It is cool in the MMO industry to label something "innovative" or "sandbox" and then curse out anyone who doesnt agree with you. I would point out quite a few forum members like this but they will only report me for flaming, which is untrue.
In business, we use key terms to label a trend product. For example, the 90's was the era of "user friendly." Everyone was boasting how their wares were "user friendly" when in fact very few were, but it sold products, so they kept lying about it. Sounds familiar? Does it sound like a few MMO developers? I think so.
And I will continue to view these DF forums just to entertain myself as the "trolls vs fanboy" reiterate the samething over and over in creative ways at each other.
Thread title: Why do you consider Darkfall to be sandbox? Because I'm not funnelled into doing things a certain way like WoW, WAR, LotRO. I am free to do what I want.
Then try creating a weapon purely of your own design. Oh wait, you need a recipe? And there are a finite number of recipes to choose your creation from? Like hell you're not funneled into doing things certain way.
Try making your own armor. Or building a home from the ground up using your own designs. Oh wait, can't do those things either.
DFO is an OPEN-ENDED GAME, not a SANDBOX. Stop confusing the two.
Take away all user-created content in DFO and you have left....uh...pretty much everything in the game. Take away all user-created content in Second Life, a REAL sandbox, and you have left ....uh...an entire server farm of flat land or ocean waiting to be terraformed, a physics engine waiting for objects to interact with, and plain avatars waiting for someone to give them a shape/skin/eyes/hair/clothing.
Great reply. key note: "DFO is an OPEN-ENDED GAME, not a SANDBOX. Stop confusing the two."
Do I consider DF a sandbox: NO
Will I give it a try and keep an open mind despite its flaws compared to UO/EVE: YES
I recently started playing DF out of boredom, my entire guild decided to pass after members playing DF left immediately after months of testing by clearly pointing out its major flaws. Had it been a new release game, we can excuse these flaws and give it a year or 2, but this game has been in development for 8 years.
It is cool in the MMO industry to label something "innovative" or "sandbox" and then curse out anyone who doesnt agree with you. I would point out quite a few forum members like this but they will only report me for flaming, which is untrue.
In business, we use key terms to label a trend product. For example, the 90's was the era of "user friendly." Everyone was boasting how their wares were "user friendly" when in fact very few were, but it sold products, so they kept lying about it. Sounds familiar? Does it sound like a few MMO developers? I think so.
And I will continue to view these DF forums just to entertain myself as the "trolls vs fanboy" reiterate the samething over and over in creative ways at each other.
OMFG someone with a clue. Sir I salute you and Cfurlin.
Thread title: Why do you consider Darkfall to be sandbox? Because I'm not funnelled into doing things a certain way like WoW, WAR, LotRO. I am free to do what I want.
Then try creating a weapon purely of your own design. Oh wait, you need a recipe? And there are a finite number of recipes to choose your creation from? Like hell you're not funneled into doing things certain way.
Try making your own armor. Or building a home from the ground up using your own designs. Oh wait, can't do those things either.
DFO is an OPEN-ENDED GAME, not a SANDBOX. Stop confusing the two.
Take away all user-created content in DFO and you have left....uh...pretty much everything in the game. Take away all user-created content in Second Life, a REAL sandbox, and you have left ....uh...an entire server farm of flat land or ocean waiting to be terraformed, a physics engine waiting for objects to interact with, and plain avatars waiting for someone to give them a shape/skin/eyes/hair/clothing.
Great reply. key note: "DFO is an OPEN-ENDED GAME, not a SANDBOX. Stop confusing the two."
Do I consider DF a sandbox: NO
Will I give it a try and keep an open mind despite its flaws compared to UO/EVE: YES
I recently started playing DF out of boredom, my entire guild decided to pass after members playing DF left immediately after months of testing by clearly pointing out its major flaws. Had it been a new release game, we can excuse these flaws and give it a year or 2, but this game has been in development for 8 years.
It is cool in the MMO industry to label something "innovative" or "sandbox" and then curse out anyone who doesnt agree with you. I would point out quite a few forum members like this but they will only report me for flaming, which is untrue.
In business, we use key terms to label a trend product. For example, the 90's was the era of "user friendly." Everyone was boasting how their wares were "user friendly" when in fact very few were, but it sold products, so they kept lying about it. Sounds familiar? Does it sound like a few MMO developers? I think so.
And I will continue to view these DF forums just to entertain myself as the "trolls vs fanboy" reiterate the samething over and over in creative ways at each other.
OMFG someone with a clue. Sir I salute you and Cfurlin.
Nevulus is absolutely correct. "Sandbox" is the new keyword in gaming. Call a game a sandbox and somehow it gives it legitimacy and herds of gamers flock to it like hungry dogs to a piece of meat.
DFO is not a sandbox. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say there has NEVER been an MMO that qualified as a sandbox. The only online experience that fits the sandbox criteria is Second Life, which is not a game, its a simulator (actually, a whole bunch of simulators running and connected to each other).
I'm not quite sure what the sandbox designation solves for people. Maybe it helps set the game apart from the others for them -- by telling people their game is a sandbox is like saying, "my game is new and different". The problem is, gamers don't continue to play games just because they are new and different. At some point, they have to be good, interesting, and fun.
IMHO, 'sandbox' is nothing more than market-ese used to hype a game. DFO is an open-ended game. If it keeps getting better and sticks to being open-ended, then that's an amazing feat in the gaming world all by itself.
nothing is apparently going to change your totally wrong understanding of what 'sandbox' means. the fact is, you can be whatever you want in Darkfall, therefore it's sandbox. a warlock in WOW will always be a warlock.
DUH.
Hey bro.. you are on the tad ignorant side of this discussion. Because for your logic to work, you'd have to be able to be a Warlock in Darkfall. That is why the term "Sandbox" is a feature by feature princapals and the game mechanic cannot be restricted or limited in their value. Ccombat and the skill tree in darkfall is NIl compared to even thempark games.
Darkfall does not allow anyone to evolve into a Warlock, therefore it is more limiting. So far you have changed your modus operandi a few times. Perhaps you should let us in on YOUR definifintion. Since you are having an extremely hard time rebuttaling others with any sense of logic.
A sandbox game is not determined soely by whether or not it's skill based or classed based. Skill based games give a more "sandbox" feel, unless you dealing with the extremely limited abilities and skills. Did you intentionally miss the point about a lvl 5 Warrior in Everquest having more skills and abilities than anyone in Darkfall..?
If you cannot follow a topic and the valid points people make, then please don't pretent to be a cunning troll using some well thought out troll formula, but never base anything on logic. It just makes you look like a helpless fanboi, ranting!
Comments
I am neither. I am actually playing the game and enjoying it. I guess you could call me opinionated. Your just one of those people who have not got an account yet and given it a try. I am not here to fight like most children do. Opinions are like arseholes everyones got one.....I gave my opinion.....you didnt like it.......move on then.
The Shikkadance Cometh!
Obviously my definition of sandbox differs from others.
Darkfall is pretty much a sandbox. The players determine the economy, and since they can create anything in the game, the prices are stabilizing depending the need. One thing I noticed, was how the price or iron ore went up shortly after a patch that caused weapon and armor durabilities to shorten and break.
Once again, players determined the pricing.
Stealth, in Darkfall, is not a button you can press. It's an act you perform in any way you can. You literally have to create your method of stealth. I'm not about to reveal mine, but some obvious factors are, hugging to shadows, hiding behind bushes and trees, staying out of the periphery of other people. Even the weapon you use becomes important. If you use magic, you'll have a magical glowing aura around you and be much easier to detect. But if you use a bow and arrow, a sniper shot can be near impossible to figure.
Therefore, stealth is determined by the player.
Politics, in Darkfall, is more complicated than an any other game of played. Now, it doesn't matter who you are simply allied with or at war with. It matters what other people in the area think about you. A clan I'm involved with literally had a meeting with all their allies, simply to determine if moving to another area was worthwhile. They sent "spies" to the are, which was quite a long journey, to gather information about other clans in the area. Troop sizes, races, current warring factions, the availability of resources.
And so, political sparring is very much controlled by the players.
Those are just a few reasons why I consider it to be a sandbox.
Ladies, gentlieman, the game has so far impressed me. What hasn't impressed me, though, is the number of crashes and the hacking. To balance out my "glowing" commentary, those issues absolutely need to be addressed and eradicated.
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No, I do believe your post was based off ignorance. Because Everquest was founded upon skills. But skill related to you as a citizen, person or class. When you meditated, you gained skill in meditation. The higher your skill, the greater the amount of mane you received every tick you were siting and meditating. Once you gained a certain skill, you no longer had to look at the spell book while you meditated. That illustrated your beginning master of this skill and were able to do more than just meditate, but now could look around..etc.
Swimming was the exact same way. The better you got at swiming meant the fast you could swim.
Evade, dual wielding, block, swim, archery, baking, language, Attack, conjuration, safe fall, hide, kick...etc
I can go on & on & on.. Everquest has more skills than Darkfall has Abilities or even spells. Darkfall is extrmely limited for a game released in 2009. It cannot even claim to have more open-ended features than Everquest or Ultima Online. Both of which were released 10 years ago.
Perhaps newbies like Shikk, never knew of these games or their features. But it's clear he doesn't understand the interaction between character skills and abilities.
Isnt this a bit "shortminded" for this thread? You know there is more to do then combat. You know many play just to be a crafter, trade, explorer or guild leader.
Can't you do that in any game where you have those features? For instance in WoW I could be those things, I could just do nothing but crafting or, I could just go around exploring all day, and never fight one thing If I don't want to. I know, I know WoW is a theme park game but you can still only do those things if you really wanted to. You cannot. In WoW you need lvl 35 to lvl a crafting skill to skill 300. You need lvl 45 to raise to 375. You need lvl 45 to go cap 450. As for collection, yes you can max collection skills any level you want, but you need to kill a 75+ mob to skin you way to cap 450. You cannot do that at character lvl 1.
You don't have to kill things in any game if you don't want to, but you won't get to a higher level combat wise if you don't. But I play these types of games to go on an adventure and kill things as well be those things on the side.. Just like in DnD I played as an adventurer, it would be boring if all i did in dnd is craft things and build houses. Thats just me of course and its cool if thats all what people want to do, im fine with that. You need to kill things to get hide, to clear path to herbs. You need to kill things to get the rare recipes, you need to kill things to get reputation for reputation recipes.
Features I call sandbox would be.
1) Building things wherever you want to.
2) Players actions influence the game world for everyone not just them selves. e.g. if im a orc and I start killing a bunch of humans, the humans will hate all orc players. Unlike WoW where if I kill a faction and they just hate me and not my whole race. Also there could be ways to get on their good side again if you wanted to.
3) The freedom to do whatever you want without being gimped in some sort of way.
That's all I can think of right now but I think a lot of people have the misconseption of what a sandbox game is. What did you do when you were young and played in the sandbox? You built things and manipulated the sand how you wanted it to be.
A sandbox game to me = players can manipulate the game for all others to see and their actions effect all players. Thats all simple as that.
I am a WoW player. I like the way the game provides variety. But in this specific area of crafting, WoW is a bit restrictive. I am forced to level my crafting toon to 45 and later to max level b/c i need reputation, and you do not start getting quests to open up factions and then grind reputating, until say 78 (for sons of holdir).
Sorry but that's just not right. A lot of other MMOs players determine the economy. Maybe not to the extent but a sandbox mmo is not determinded by "the extent" a sandbox is called that because well it's like sand in that there is nothing and you create what is there like sand castles for example.
Everything people are saying is in other MMOs... again the only reason people think this is sandbox is because of the lack of content. It's kind of a joke. fyi there are other mmos where anyone can attack you outside of the city ect ect.
If you like the game then you like the game and that's great. But trying to defend it as a sandbox mmo is kinda silly.
Put down your swords and play EQ 2...
Feelin Fine
To be fair, it's there for a very good reason, as otherwise you'd have people powerlevelling professions on level one characters to allow themselves to be entirely self sufficient. (Which is almost never good in an MMO.)
EDIT: Dear god, do the Darkfall kiddies report EVERY non-Darkfall post they see?
You have no clue whatsoever what a sandbox game is.
QUESTION NOT ANSWERED.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Your definition and examples are nothing like what 'sandbox' is generally accepted to mean.
the 'purest' definition of sandbox is whether the game is primarily based on player-created content versus developer-created content.
darkfall is unquestioningly a sandbox game. re-read the first 2 replies in the thread for specifics.
I fail to see any player created content in Darkfall.
We who play EVE would challenge your assertion. Lineage 2 players have had outstanding player politics for years as well.
But this thread is about DF, and I agree, the player politics is a key component in determining if DF is a sandbox type game. Players control and defend territory to a greater extent than a more linear game.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We who play EVE would challenge your assertion. Lineage 2 players have had outstanding player politics for years as well.
But this thread is about DF, and I agree, the player politics is a key component in determining if DF is a sandbox type game. Players control and defend territory to a greater extent than a more linear game.
Whats so outstanding with Lineage 2's and Darkfall's political system?
It's just a system of Lords, Vassals and Peasants like you had in the real world a millennia ago.
The Lords will be the leaders of powerful guilds, the vassals will be the members of that guild plus the members of lesser guilds in alliance with the powerful guild, the peasants will be guildless players or players in weak guilds.
Your definition and examples are nothing like what 'sandbox' is generally accepted to mean.
the 'purest' definition of sandbox is whether the game is primarily based on player-created content versus developer-created content.
darkfall is unquestioningly a sandbox game. re-read the first 2 replies in the thread for specifics.
hmm.. did you even read my post? *scratches head*
I directly refute your arguement above. Restrictive combat is not open-ended. Therefore your choices are limited and not based on the sandbox principals.
Content has nothing to do with whether a game is sanbox or not, it what you can do with the said content, that makes it a sandbox style game. Classless (skill based) games, typically have a sandbox feel to them, unless the skill tree is more limited amd small. Where as some class based games have massive build-outs and allow for greater diversity.
Since in Darkfall you cannot play traditional roles, (the developer's ideas and vision weren't that deep)... you are left with limited abilities within Darkfall. Melee combat is used 90% of almost all deaths, instead of a plethora on debuffing, doting, criticle healing, nukes, arrow flurries, backstabs w/poison...etc.
Instead, you have overhead swing and slash+knockback...
Extremely limiting. Even after 4 weeks of playing you have less abilities,less attack, less veriety than a lvl 5 Warrior in Everquest. So, the term sandbox is used as a feature by feature context. No amount of trolling or backpadeling is going to change the ignorance in your statements!
Interesting, save for the reality of the game itself...
Darkfall is no more a sandbox than Shadowbane was.
Both offered large, empty and open worlds.
Both offered building of cities in pre-determined locations in dev controlled layouts.
Both offered FFA PvP.
Both offered only a few viable player roles.
I love reading the threads that say you can be whatever you want in Darkfall. No, you can't. To be successful, you will raise melee, magic, AND archery. You will also wear the heaviest armor you can find since there is no truly negative effect once you get your armor related skills raised up. You can't be nothing but a crafter because it just isn't possible. You need mats to make items, you need gold to make items, you need to kill things to get gold. Sure, you could sell your mats and then farm more to make the item, but that is just going to increase your craft time, and reduce your profits.
There is no game outside of the city sieging PvP game. The PvE SUCKs. The crafting SUCKS (deny this and you are on crack, or you just love self initiated abuse). There are two roles you can play in Darkfall, the first is PvP player, the second is PvP player that makes items. That's it. Compare that to something like UO or SWG and you will see exactly why Darkfall isn't a true sandbox.
A large, empty world =/= sandbox. A sandbox is a game with true player created content, not just cities built in the spots the devs allowed them to be built for the sole purpose of grinding and PVP. That's all the cities really are in truth. They are nothing more than a place for guilds to grind so they can PVP, and a place where PVP happens. That does not make a game a sandbox. A sandbox needs to offer players that want nothing more than PvE a game to play; players that want nothing more than PVP a game to play; players that want nothing more than crafting a game to play; players that want to run a tavern a game to play; players that want to be a thief WITHOUT killing a game to play; etc, etc.
Sandboxes are made by fluff and true choice, not just an open world with player built cities. Too many of you confuse Darkfall's lack of content for being a sandbox. The game Darkfall was SUPPOSED to be would have been a sandbox, the game we got is a huge team deathmatch with player made items.
For the record, I will not deny that Darkfall is open ended and mildly enjoyable. Unlike some of you in this thread, I actually play it so I speak from experience. I will also say that it does have the foundation for being a sandbox, or the box if you will, but it is lacking in the sand.
Your definition and examples are nothing like what 'sandbox' is generally accepted to mean.
the 'purest' definition of sandbox is whether the game is primarily based on player-created content versus developer-created content.
darkfall is unquestioningly a sandbox game. re-read the first 2 replies in the thread for specifics.
hmm.. did you even read my post? *scratches head*
I directly refute your arguement above. Restrictive combat is not open-ended. Therefore your choices are limited and not based on the sandbox principals.
Content has nothing to do with whether a game is sanbox or not, it what you can do with the said content, that makes it a sandbox style game. Classless (skill based) games, typically have a sandbox feel to them, unless the skill tree is more limited amd small. Where as some class based games have massive build-outs and allow for greater diversity.
Since in Darkfall you cannot play traditional roles, (the developer's ideas and vision weren't that deep)... you are left with limited abilities within Darkfall. Melee combat is used 90% of almost all deaths, instead of a plethora on debuffing, doting, criticle healing, nukes, arrow flurries, backstabs w/poison...etc.
Instead, you have overhead swing and slash+knockback...
Extremely limiting. Even after 4 weeks of playing you have less abilities,less attack, less veriety than a lvl 5 Warrior in Everquest. So, the term sandbox is used as a feature by feature context. No amount of trolling or backpadeling is going to change the ignorance in your statements!
nothing is apparently going to change your totally wrong understanding of what 'sandbox' means. the fact is, you can be whatever you want in Darkfall, therefore it's sandbox. a warlock in WOW will always be a warlock.
DUH.
QFE, for the dummies.
Your definition and examples are nothing like what 'sandbox' is generally accepted to mean.
the 'purest' definition of sandbox is whether the game is primarily based on player-created content versus developer-created content.
darkfall is unquestioningly a sandbox game. re-read the first 2 replies in the thread for specifics.
hmm.. did you even read my post? *scratches head*
I directly refute your arguement above. Restrictive combat is not open-ended. Therefore your choices are limited and not based on the sandbox principals.
Content has nothing to do with whether a game is sanbox or not, it what you can do with the said content, that makes it a sandbox style game. Classless (skill based) games, typically have a sandbox feel to them, unless the skill tree is more limited amd small. Where as some class based games have massive build-outs and allow for greater diversity.
Since in Darkfall you cannot play traditional roles, (the developer's ideas and vision weren't that deep)... you are left with limited abilities within Darkfall. Melee combat is used 90% of almost all deaths, instead of a plethora on debuffing, doting, criticle healing, nukes, arrow flurries, backstabs w/poison...etc.
Instead, you have overhead swing and slash+knockback...
Extremely limiting. Even after 4 weeks of playing you have less abilities,less attack, less veriety than a lvl 5 Warrior in Everquest. So, the term sandbox is used as a feature by feature context. No amount of trolling or backpadeling is going to change the ignorance in your statements!
nothing is apparently going to change your totally wrong understanding of what 'sandbox' means. the fact is, you can be whatever you want in Darkfall, therefore it's sandbox. a warlock in WOW will always be a warlock.
DUH.
A game with nonlinear gameplay presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Whereas a more linear game will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges, a less linear game will allow greater player freedom. For example, a nonlinear game may permit multiple sequences to finish the game, a choice between paths to victory, or optional side-quests and subplots. Some games feature both linear and nonlinear elements, and some games offer a sandbox mode that allows players to explore the game environment independently from the game's main objectives.
Honestly all games have this. You can go outside the games main objective.
hence why a dozen posts back Kyleran correctly noted that sandbox is a graduation of 'more sandbox' to 'less sandbox'. Darkfall is on the more sandbox side by far, cause there *are* no objectives, and numerous playstyles are supported through wide & deep crafting options, player-built cities/towns, ships, mounts, weaps, armour, objects. no levels, no classes, no sticky targeting, no pvp restrictions, full loot, friendly fire, unrestricted, realistic world.
contrast this with WOW, the archetypal themepark game: linear progression of level 1->80 then linear progression of raid content, and extremely limited PVP options.
We who play EVE would challenge your assertion. Lineage 2 players have had outstanding player politics for years as well.
But this thread is about DF, and I agree, the player politics is a key component in determining if DF is a sandbox type game. Players control and defend territory to a greater extent than a more linear game.
ROTFL. Darkfall has no politics compared to EVE.
Really? No limit to what you can craft? Well, let me know what materials you need. I'd like a pink sword with a Hello Kitty handle. I'll pick it up in-game in a few days...
EDIT: Oh, and BTW, you can deliver it to me personally. I'm currently flying at 60,000 feet with the new wings I crafted for myself...oh wait...I can't go into the air...aaaaiiiiieeeeeee...splat...
Then try creating a weapon purely of your own design. Oh wait, you need a recipe? And there are a finite number of recipes to choose your creation from? Like hell you're not funneled into doing things certain way.
Try making your own armor. Or building a home from the ground up using your own designs. Oh wait, can't do those things either.
DFO is an OPEN-ENDED GAME, not a SANDBOX. Stop confusing the two.
Take away all user-created content in DFO and you have left....uh...pretty much everything in the game. Take away all user-created content in Second Life, a REAL sandbox, and you have left ....uh...an entire server farm of flat land or ocean waiting to be terraformed, a physics engine waiting for objects to interact with, and plain avatars waiting for someone to give them a shape/skin/eyes/hair/clothing.
Great reply. key note: "DFO is an OPEN-ENDED GAME, not a SANDBOX. Stop confusing the two."
Do I consider DF a sandbox: NO
Will I give it a try and keep an open mind despite its flaws compared to UO/EVE: YES
I recently started playing DF out of boredom, my entire guild decided to pass after members playing DF left immediately after months of testing by clearly pointing out its major flaws. Had it been a new release game, we can excuse these flaws and give it a year or 2, but this game has been in development for 8 years.
It is cool in the MMO industry to label something "innovative" or "sandbox" and then curse out anyone who doesnt agree with you. I would point out quite a few forum members like this but they will only report me for flaming, which is untrue.
In business, we use key terms to label a trend product. For example, the 90's was the era of "user friendly." Everyone was boasting how their wares were "user friendly" when in fact very few were, but it sold products, so they kept lying about it. Sounds familiar? Does it sound like a few MMO developers? I think so.
And I will continue to view these DF forums just to entertain myself as the "trolls vs fanboy" reiterate the samething over and over in creative ways at each other.
Then try creating a weapon purely of your own design. Oh wait, you need a recipe? And there are a finite number of recipes to choose your creation from? Like hell you're not funneled into doing things certain way.
Try making your own armor. Or building a home from the ground up using your own designs. Oh wait, can't do those things either.
DFO is an OPEN-ENDED GAME, not a SANDBOX. Stop confusing the two.
Take away all user-created content in DFO and you have left....uh...pretty much everything in the game. Take away all user-created content in Second Life, a REAL sandbox, and you have left ....uh...an entire server farm of flat land or ocean waiting to be terraformed, a physics engine waiting for objects to interact with, and plain avatars waiting for someone to give them a shape/skin/eyes/hair/clothing.
Great reply. key note: "DFO is an OPEN-ENDED GAME, not a SANDBOX. Stop confusing the two."
Do I consider DF a sandbox: NO
Will I give it a try and keep an open mind despite its flaws compared to UO/EVE: YES
I recently started playing DF out of boredom, my entire guild decided to pass after members playing DF left immediately after months of testing by clearly pointing out its major flaws. Had it been a new release game, we can excuse these flaws and give it a year or 2, but this game has been in development for 8 years.
It is cool in the MMO industry to label something "innovative" or "sandbox" and then curse out anyone who doesnt agree with you. I would point out quite a few forum members like this but they will only report me for flaming, which is untrue.
In business, we use key terms to label a trend product. For example, the 90's was the era of "user friendly." Everyone was boasting how their wares were "user friendly" when in fact very few were, but it sold products, so they kept lying about it. Sounds familiar? Does it sound like a few MMO developers? I think so.
And I will continue to view these DF forums just to entertain myself as the "trolls vs fanboy" reiterate the samething over and over in creative ways at each other.
OMFG someone with a clue. Sir I salute you and Cfurlin.
Then try creating a weapon purely of your own design. Oh wait, you need a recipe? And there are a finite number of recipes to choose your creation from? Like hell you're not funneled into doing things certain way.
Try making your own armor. Or building a home from the ground up using your own designs. Oh wait, can't do those things either.
DFO is an OPEN-ENDED GAME, not a SANDBOX. Stop confusing the two.
Take away all user-created content in DFO and you have left....uh...pretty much everything in the game. Take away all user-created content in Second Life, a REAL sandbox, and you have left ....uh...an entire server farm of flat land or ocean waiting to be terraformed, a physics engine waiting for objects to interact with, and plain avatars waiting for someone to give them a shape/skin/eyes/hair/clothing.
Great reply. key note: "DFO is an OPEN-ENDED GAME, not a SANDBOX. Stop confusing the two."
Do I consider DF a sandbox: NO
Will I give it a try and keep an open mind despite its flaws compared to UO/EVE: YES
I recently started playing DF out of boredom, my entire guild decided to pass after members playing DF left immediately after months of testing by clearly pointing out its major flaws. Had it been a new release game, we can excuse these flaws and give it a year or 2, but this game has been in development for 8 years.
It is cool in the MMO industry to label something "innovative" or "sandbox" and then curse out anyone who doesnt agree with you. I would point out quite a few forum members like this but they will only report me for flaming, which is untrue.
In business, we use key terms to label a trend product. For example, the 90's was the era of "user friendly." Everyone was boasting how their wares were "user friendly" when in fact very few were, but it sold products, so they kept lying about it. Sounds familiar? Does it sound like a few MMO developers? I think so.
And I will continue to view these DF forums just to entertain myself as the "trolls vs fanboy" reiterate the samething over and over in creative ways at each other.
OMFG someone with a clue. Sir I salute you and Cfurlin.
Nevulus is absolutely correct. "Sandbox" is the new keyword in gaming. Call a game a sandbox and somehow it gives it legitimacy and herds of gamers flock to it like hungry dogs to a piece of meat.
DFO is not a sandbox. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say there has NEVER been an MMO that qualified as a sandbox. The only online experience that fits the sandbox criteria is Second Life, which is not a game, its a simulator (actually, a whole bunch of simulators running and connected to each other).
I'm not quite sure what the sandbox designation solves for people. Maybe it helps set the game apart from the others for them -- by telling people their game is a sandbox is like saying, "my game is new and different". The problem is, gamers don't continue to play games just because they are new and different. At some point, they have to be good, interesting, and fun.
IMHO, 'sandbox' is nothing more than market-ese used to hype a game. DFO is an open-ended game. If it keeps getting better and sticks to being open-ended, then that's an amazing feat in the gaming world all by itself.
EDIT: typo
Hey bro.. you are on the tad ignorant side of this discussion. Because for your logic to work, you'd have to be able to be a Warlock in Darkfall. That is why the term "Sandbox" is a feature by feature princapals and the game mechanic cannot be restricted or limited in their value. Ccombat and the skill tree in darkfall is NIl compared to even thempark games.
Darkfall does not allow anyone to evolve into a Warlock, therefore it is more limiting. So far you have changed your modus operandi a few times. Perhaps you should let us in on YOUR definifintion. Since you are having an extremely hard time rebuttaling others with any sense of logic.
A sandbox game is not determined soely by whether or not it's skill based or classed based. Skill based games give a more "sandbox" feel, unless you dealing with the extremely limited abilities and skills. Did you intentionally miss the point about a lvl 5 Warrior in Everquest having more skills and abilities than anyone in Darkfall..?
If you cannot follow a topic and the valid points people make, then please don't pretent to be a cunning troll using some well thought out troll formula, but never base anything on logic. It just makes you look like a helpless fanboi, ranting!