Serious and professional product, new areas, nice community, great design... but boring gameplay
Came back to Lotro and found it boring.
Why ?
1° there's no challenge. Make a group with 3 run keeper and 2 warden and you'll finish all dungeons quickly, without one death, without one wipe. It's NOW (was in the closed beta) too easy. Did all GBD in 30 min. (i'm a casual gamer) At the beginning, it was hard to finish Great Barrow downs, now it's not fun, it's too easy.
2° the game is too linear. Nothing changed since release/. THe universe is always the same, you can see 2 orcs attacking trestle, no more. Nothing changed since release.
3° there's only 1 PVP area (nothing changed since beta)
4° This game is bugged, more buggy than it was at release and in the beta (That's new. Lotro was perfect in beta, now it's buggy)
Lotro is now too easy with the 2 new classes.,The RK, what kind of JEDI is it ? oO They kill and destroy anything and they heal anyone. So you'll find more and more RK each day.
Rune Keeper on the ring online, RK more powerful than Gandalf himself. W and RK are going to kill the game, as Jedi killed SWG.
What I think most people are missing here is that the primary purpose of a MMO is socialization game play is important also but it is still secondary. Luckily for me LoTRO has decent game play and I find the community the second best of any MMO I have ever played. SWG at launch had the best but that time is long gone. LoTRO also has plenty of game play also with lots of thing to do while I am chatting with my friends. I can explore, level a character, grind deeds or coin, look for a decoration for my house, craft some good gear for a friend or a alt or the AH, do a instance run, or just sit and listen to a player practicing music at the Inn. there special events and festivals and regular content updates. LoTRO may not be the perfect MMO but it is damn close. Anyone who is "bored with the rings" will probably be bored in any MMO
I agree with you for the most part. For me though I would put community at number two and combat at number one, my personal preference though. I don't know why but with lotro I just wasn't feeling the combat so to speak. I guess it was the animations just felt tacky to me and the way skills queued to be more rhythmic instead of instant bothered me. Unfortunately I couldn't over look that, but LoTROs community seemed a lot more social than other MMOs, I would put it at second behind FFXI and only because in FFXI (in the old days) you couldn't solo anything at all. I pretty much game hop around because no MMO has gotten all the important things to me, they all seem to have one feature I love and another just as important missing
Serious and professional product, new areas, nice community, great design... but boring gameplay
Came back to Lotro and found it boring.
Why ? 1° there's no challenge. Make a group with 3 run keeper and 2 warden and you'll finish all dungeons quickly, without one death, without one wipe. It's NOW (was in the closed beta) too easy. Did all GBD in 30 min. (i'm a casual gamer) At the beginning, it was hard to finish Great Barrow downs, now it's not fun, it's too easy. I agree that the RK's and wardens are over powered, how ever stating that they can clear any instance is a gross exaggeration. At any rate the devs agree with the over powered part, see the patch notes for book 8. Been playing these games since 1997 and all MMOs go through phases on balancing classes.
2° the game is too linear. Nothing changed since release/. THe universe is always the same, you can see 2 orcs attacking trestle, no more. Nothing changed since release. that would apply to any MMO. I am not aware of any where devs are doing live events 24 and 7
3° there's only 1 PVP area (nothing changed since beta) LoTRO's focus is not PvP. For most of us playing this would count as a plus not a minus 4° This game is bugged, more buggy than it was at release and in the beta (That's new. Lotro was perfect in beta, now it's buggy) Gee the most complex MMO on the market had a bug, that took the Devs a week to smash, what a concept. If you are referring to the water/exploit mob bug it just got fixed. I ran around Evendim for a couple of hours yesterday never had a single issue where before it was darn near unplayable. Bugs wil happen in any MMO, the true test is whether the Devs can fix them. I can show you bugs in EQII and AoC that have been there since launch Lotro is now too easy with the 2 new classes.,The RK, what kind of JEDI is it ? oO They kill and destroy anything and they heal anyone. So you'll find more and more RK each day. Rune Keeper on the ring online, RK more powerful than Gandalf himself. W and RK are going to kill the game, as Jedi killed SWG. you are repeating yourself here ,see the patch notes for book 8. Problem with jedi was not that they were overpowered the problem was SOE could not figure out how to balance them. RK's will be toned down a notch or two by this time next month
Not noing to call out anyone in particular, just awant to make a few points.
1. I'm glad the OP actually typed out what he meant. That post would have a good starting point for a discussion instead of the ten page mess that this thread consists of. I disagree with many of his opinions, particularly that LoTRO will only have long term appeal for first time MMO gamers. I've been playing these things since Scars Vellious era EQ (and I dabbled in MUDs before that), I have tried at least two dozen MMOs that I can think of off the top of my head, and nothing has come anywhere near holding my attention as long as LoTRO. However, the OP does make some good points in his longer post and he's not pretending his opinions are anything but opinions. Bravo.
2. Any MMO will have occaisional bugs and balance issues. LoTRO has had fewer bugs than anything I've played apart from WoW, and has had fewer and more minor class balance issues than any MMO I have ever played. You can certainly find some insatnces of me whining about class changes if you scour the net, but overall in the grand scheme of things this game has had pretty minor issues. The current problem with Blackarrows is literally the worst class balance problem I can think of since the game launched. if you have played SWG or DAoC, you know what real class balance issues are like.
LoTRO is also a hell of a lot easier at low levels than at high levels, that is by design. The first ten levels of this game are currently a bit too easy in my mind, but that's hardly the entire game.
3. Anyone that claims that LoTRO is "95%" solo is ignorant or lying. You can indeed play it that way, there is plenty of solo content to get to the cap. However, from roughly level 18 on there is also enough group only content to get to the cap. In launch LoTRO there were large stretches of the game that consisted only of group content (much to our chagrin). At any given level, the best gear is locked behind group quests. For example, if you actually take the time to do all the quests in Fornost you will end up with gear that makes anything else you can get at that level look dumb.
If you were expecting a game where you are forced to group to get anything done at all, you picked the wrong MMO. See FFXI. LoTRO supports both solo and group play at all but the lowest levels.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I enjoyed my time playing Lotro but after a while I wondered why I was playing a Solo Rpg. Seriously Why make an MMO so solo friendly that you could quest stack 95% of the time in the game.
we all got to remember that just because a game is quote un quote Easy it does not make for a bad game. If they made every game tailored to The "gamer" they would be leaving a lot of community out. ok some times im not best with word so ill give an example. A note first this is not trying to dog any game.
My wife loved FF11 for the fact that most of the concepts were easy to understand and the mechanics/game play was new player (wether it be FF11 or any game) friendly, so she enjoyed it very much. She tryed WoW,not her cup of tea so to speak, the combat system was a little advanced for her/semi twitch IE faster paced and such. And im not trying to point it just to Feamles..just using MY wife as an example,no shovanizim here
And as it has been said so many times not every game is for everyone. as most of ya'll ive played my share of MMOs and I find the speed of combat in Lotro a tad slow but refreshing because im not freaking out about 20 differant skills I need to activate in 10 seconds. ok off subject ....Its got a Free trial,try it for your self and you decide
1° there's no challenge. Make a group with 3 run keeper and 2 warden and you'll finish all dungeons quickly, without one death, without one wipe. It's NOW (was in the closed beta) too easy. Did all GBD in 30 min. (i'm a casual gamer) At the beginning, it was hard to finish Great Barrow downs, now it's not fun, it's too easy. I agree that the RK's and wardens are over powered, how ever stating that they can clear any instance is a gross exaggeration.
1 It's not an exageration. Was in a group: 2 RK, 1 hunt, 1 healer and me as warden. The 2 RK finished "alone" and made ALL the quest, "taking the weathertop", killing mobs in few seconds, we, the other members of the group couldn't do nothing else but looking at these 2 jedi likes, destroying even the troll on the top as it was a low levl mob. Had the same exp with Great barrow downs ... zero wipe in the group, zero fun, 100% run. RK are really owerpowered. So everyone is playing now RK. I was lotro closed beta tester, the game was really fun on BT. Very fun and interesting. Now there"s zero challenge. I am a casual gamer, not an achiever, and i really think lotro is too casual oriented now. It's too easy. Really too easy. I can finish 90% of quests alone with my Warden, I know maybe 10% of the gambits, but it's enough to win and kill all mobs. The game was HARD on beta, really hard, with my hunter; harder but more interesting, now it's (i'm sorry) another clone for hyper casual players. Lotro changed with/since MoM.
2 The anti exploit bug (not only on evendim, but everywhere...) is really annoying and needs a fix since MONTHS
1 It's not an exageration. Was in a group: 2 RK, 1 hunt, 1 healer and me as warden. The 2 RK finished "alone" and made ALL the quest, "taking the weathertop", killing mobs in few seconds, we, the other members of the group couldn't do nothing else but looking at these 2 jedi likes, destroying even the troll on the top as it was a low levl mob. Had the same exp with Great barrow downs ... zero wipe in the group, zero fun, 100% run. RK are really owerpowered. So everyone is playing now RK. I was lotro closed beta tester, the game was really fun on BT. Very fun and interesting. Now there"s zero challenge. I am a casual gamer, not an achiever, and i really think lotro is too casual oriented now. It's too easy. Really too easy. I can finish 90% of quests alone with my Warden, I know maybe 10% of the gambits, but it's enough to win and kill all mobs. The game was HARD on beta, really hard, with my hunter; harder but more interesting, now it's (i'm sorry) another clone for hyper casual players. Lotro changed with/since MoM.
2 The anti exploit bug (not only on evendim, but everywhere...) is really annoying and needs a fix since MONTHS
way to exaggerate, and reading comp for the win.
First of all you claim the RKs can clear any instance based on your experience with 1 instance. I don't think anyone, even the RK's and Wardens would disagree with the fact that Turbine has made them a bit too powerful. I am wondering if Turbines latest contests ( you can pretty much sum them up as power leveling contests) were meant to give them some metrics for future adjustement.
You obviously still have not read the book 8 patch notes that I referenced because the RK's are being toned down with book 8. Maybe not enough or maybe just right , I am glad just to see the matter approached with a scalpel rather than a chainsaw. Ok on your "example" I would also ask what level those two RKs were but you would probably claim they were level 10 or 20 when in fact they were probably high 30's or even higher. Screenshot or it did not happen as they say. I have went through and cleared Weathertop myself with my minnie or my LM for kinmates (usually for alts of players that have done it 3 or 4 times) who just wanted the quest done so they could move on. Even if the RK's were mid to high 20's you had a good group, 3 DD'ers ( rk's and hunter). a tank ( you) and a healer. So WTF is the problem? Maybe you wanted to DD instead of tank, next time get in a group with a guardian maybe.
Secondly yes I am aware that the anti exploit was every where but it was worst in Evendim because of all the water there and it was fixed last week and no it did not last "months". Doing a search on the official forums it looks like it started the first or second week of April going by the anti exploit bug threads there, so if you had typed " it lasted weeks" instead of months you might be correct. Looks like it took them right at a month to correct it. Now if you want a company that takes months or years to fix anything go play a SOE game or a Funcom game for a while and Turbines "weeks" will seem like heaven to you.
All in all however I would have to give you a 8 on the rant/troll scale because of how you based your complaints on facts, even if they were exaggerated and irrelevant, instead of subjective opinions like most of the complainers who post here. Well done.
Discussions like these are such a waste of time. Everybody has an opinion and that's what if is..an opinion. Opinions are allowed to be different. Different games appeal to different people. If one game is boring to you play another. If you like a game and it's not boring to you subscribe and enjoy yourself. The only one responsible for your boredom is you. Each game is created in a way that's interesting to the people who design it and they hope what they find fun others will find fun. LOTRO is my favorite game to date and I've played most of them.
I bought the lifetime subscription and can play or not and I don't feel I need to spend so many hours a month to get my money's worth. Is it a perfect game?...no, there is no such thing. Does it offer the most immersive environment? Yes...In My Opinion. Is it soloable? yes...but not entirely...many many quests require groups to finish. Is the community pleasant and helpful...not on all servers...so I changed servers and have never had as much fun...fun to me is the roleplaying aspect ... the cooperative aspect ... and the immersive aspect...all of which I have at this time.
Boredom is a long ways away. Based on what the Dev's are saying on the future it may never come. As someone stated earlier changes and improvements in weaknesses are done with a scalpel not a broadsword which is the proper approach.
As far as the health of the game...it is still growing...they haven't added any servers but are moving to higher performance servers which are being tested.
So the bottom line is nothing is for everyone. There are as many tastes and opinions as there are people. If the game is right for you then's it's good. So if it's boring go try something else. It's not like the old days when there were only 2 or 3 choices.
Discussions like these are such a waste of time. Everybody has an opinion and that's what if is..an opinion. Opinions are allowed to be different. Different games appeal to different people. If one game is boring to you play another. If you like a game and it's not boring to you subscribe and enjoy yourself. The only one responsible for your boredom is you. Each game is created in a way that's interesting to the people who design it and they hope what they find fun others will find fun. LOTRO is my favorite game to date and I've played most of them. I bought the lifetime subscription and can play or not and I don't feel I need to spend so many hours a month to get my money's worth. Is it a perfect game?...no, there is no such thing. Does it offer the most immersive environment? Yes...In My Opinion. Is it soloable? yes...but not entirely...many many quests require groups to finish. Is the community pleasant and helpful...not on all servers...so I changed servers and have never had as much fun...fun to me is the roleplaying aspect ... the cooperative aspect ... and the immersive aspect...all of which I have at this time. Boredom is a long ways away. Based on what the Dev's are saying on the future it may never come. As someone stated earlier changes and improvements in weaknesses are done with a scalpel not a broadsword which is the proper approach. As far as the health of the game...it is still growing...they haven't added any servers but are moving to higher performance servers which are being tested. So the bottom line is nothing is for everyone. There are as many tastes and opinions as there are people. If the game is right for you then's it's good. So if it's boring go try something else. It's not like the old days when there were only 2 or 3 choices.
Damn that was a good first post, welcome to the forum
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Discussions like these are such a waste of time. Everybody has an opinion and that's what if is..an opinion. Opinions are allowed to be different. Different games appeal to different people. If one game is boring to you play another. If you like a game and it's not boring to you subscribe and enjoy yourself. The only one responsible for your boredom is you. Each game is created in a way that's interesting to the people who design it and they hope what they find fun others will find fun. LOTRO is my favorite game to date and I've played most of them. I bought the lifetime subscription and can play or not and I don't feel I need to spend so many hours a month to get my money's worth. Is it a perfect game?...no, there is no such thing. Does it offer the most immersive environment? Yes...In My Opinion. Is it soloable? yes...but not entirely...many many quests require groups to finish. Is the community pleasant and helpful...not on all servers...so I changed servers and have never had as much fun...fun to me is the roleplaying aspect ... the cooperative aspect ... and the immersive aspect...all of which I have at this time. Boredom is a long ways away. Based on what the Dev's are saying on the future it may never come. As someone stated earlier changes and improvements in weaknesses are done with a scalpel not a broadsword which is the proper approach. As far as the health of the game...it is still growing...they haven't added any servers but are moving to higher performance servers which are being tested. So the bottom line is nothing is for everyone. There are as many tastes and opinions as there are people. If the game is right for you then's it's good. So if it's boring go try something else. It's not like the old days when there were only 2 or 3 choices.
Discussions like these are not a waste of time. Many of us come here and have for years to talk seriously about topics like this. The trolling and insulting instead of discussing is a waste of time.
Many need to realize the truth of your last statement. These forums at mmorpg.com are fill with the same old "there are no good mmos". What a bunch of horse poop. Many of us have been in mmos since the first 3d mmo Meridian 59 in 1996. There have never been more choices and good mmos on the market. People need to start playing the mmos for what they are, not some dream mmo that does not exist.
If this is indeed your first post here welcome to the forums. It will be nice to add another thoughtful person to the mix here.
Discussions like these are such a waste of time. Everybody has an opinion and that's what if is..an opinion. Opinions are allowed to be different. Different games appeal to different people. If one game is boring to you play another. If you like a game and it's not boring to you subscribe and enjoy yourself. The only one responsible for your boredom is you. Each game is created in a way that's interesting to the people who design it and they hope what they find fun others will find fun. LOTRO is my favorite game to date and I've played most of them. I bought the lifetime subscription and can play or not and I don't feel I need to spend so many hours a month to get my money's worth. Is it a perfect game?...no, there is no such thing. Does it offer the most immersive environment? Yes...In My Opinion. Is it soloable? yes...but not entirely...many many quests require groups to finish. Is the community pleasant and helpful...not on all servers...so I changed servers and have never had as much fun...fun to me is the roleplaying aspect ... the cooperative aspect ... and the immersive aspect...all of which I have at this time. Boredom is a long ways away. Based on what the Dev's are saying on the future it may never come. As someone stated earlier changes and improvements in weaknesses are done with a scalpel not a broadsword which is the proper approach. As far as the health of the game...it is still growing...they haven't added any servers but are moving to higher performance servers which are being tested. So the bottom line is nothing is for everyone. There are as many tastes and opinions as there are people. If the game is right for you then's it's good. So if it's boring go try something else. It's not like the old days when there were only 2 or 3 choices.
Damn that was a good first post, welcome to the forum
Gotta give credit where it belongs. Excellent post indeed!
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Problem with Lotro for me and alot of other fans of the books and movies is that we expected Lotro to be much more....well, much more "lord of the rings". But coming up as it is, the game left us irritated. It left many of us wondering if "kill 8 wolfs", "kill 10 spiders", "bring this bag to old snaggletooth down the road" is all this epic setting is able to provide in a video game.
Turbine didn't aim on catching the epic portion, but went for a themepark+co game aimed at the younger crowd. Come on, "morale" and such...where does all this fit into the dark and rough world of lotro? It could and should have been so much more. It should be vast and epic... and for shure not like "deliver this cake to aunt flummy in time"
Turbine delivered a solid game, but that's also all about it. To me it feels too much like a "game", just "another game" based on the same formula and too little like Lotro in the sense of the books. Shure is has it's locations, places and characters for the fans of the books to recognize. But to me it rather feels like the Lotro-license put on a established business-formula (Blizzard's). I almost dare to say that it could have been any other setting/license, would have been the same game.
On a sidenote: WAR kind of hits the same spot. For many fans it's not enough AARRRRGHHH!!, but too much "license put on business formula" -hence they set all their hope on W40k to become the "real" warhammer.
Both IPs deserve their own game. Not a rip-off in disguise.
Problem with Lotro for me and alot of other fans of the books and movies is that we expected Lotro to be much more....well, much more "lord of the rings". But coming up as it is, the game left us irritated. It left many of us wondering if "kill 8 wolfs", "kill 10 spiders", "bring this bag to old snaggletooth down the road" is all this epic setting is able to provide in a video game.
heh and I can point you towards another thread where someone was bitching thta the quests in Lothlorien ( sp) were boring because they included such things as admonishing drunken reverlers, lighting tghe torches for a feast, picking grapes etc.
Just out of curiosity did you hang in there long enough to do the quest in Evendim where you had to find and throw stones to distract the trolls and get them fighting so you could steal a item? Did'nt think so. How about any of the quests where you had to figure out and perform the correct emote? Or maybe any of the riddle quests where they gave you a riddle and you had to figure it out and find the correct item? Or maybe the quests where you had to get two lovebirds together and dend the suitor from the sweethearts brothers? How about the instance quests where you do not play your own toon but instead you play a character and class in a instance that is part of the storyline?
Gee maybe Turbine does have something besides fedex and kill quests. But then I am sure you can find a problem with those also.
I agree with wishing for an accurate representation of Tolkein's world... If I ever hit the Powerball I'm gonna buy the game and the rights and make that game...There will be only the two of us playing it because not many people will subscribe to it. Most are programmed with the D&D mindset and wouldn't find enough in the game to entertain them.
The game is very distant from how I envision interacting in Middle Earth...but it's as close as I'm gonna get so i'll take it. Visually they nailed it. To Turbine's credit they did a heck of a job allowing you to help the fellowship indirectly which is quite satisfying. I totally enjoyed watching the fellowship leave Rivendell on their way to destroy the Ring and being told that though I couldn't go with them I could help them in other ways was my favorite moment in any game to date.
So you take what you can get when it comes to your favorite genre and game. I tried WOW and there were places that reminded me of the Flintstones they were so cartoony. LOTRO nails Middle Earth and Moria and Lothlorien...WOW!!!
Thank You for the kind comments and yes I guess the arguing about opinions is what is really the waste of time.
I am sure that there is epic quests in Lotro, but definitely not 1-20 which I played. It might be stupid to say that the noob levels are boring, but I mean there should be something to make you go "woah..". I did the epic book quest, was fun but the boring combat killed it..I'm sorry.
I would love to see an mmorpg that has fluid graphics, ragdoll psychics (even), not-instanced (ala WoW) and a looooot to do. Basicly, yes, it's gonna be like WoW, but with so much more. Hey, you can't flame me. WoW is the best mmorpg out there (in terms of content). If it just had better graphics, better animation, better combat. Woahh
In my opinion (and thats not more but my opinion) lotro is a narrow minded linear boring piece of s....oftware.
The best thing about it is that it has an integrated internet chat where you can add some amusement with the right people. (Aka friends, kin, community blabla). But: You can have the same amusement in internet chats without 3D enviroment. This entertainment has nada to do with LOTRO, it is simply one of the reasons why i still like the genre. Socialising and interacting with others, makes the difference over single player games for me.
Unfortunatly LOTRO does not encourage socialising much, it is possible to do so but not knitted into the gameplay. The massive solo friendlyness does have the disadvantage that socialising and forming groups is not a "part of the game" but just a given side-feature (internet chat)
It can be frustrating to be LFG for houers, i had this in older games, but the satisfaction to be in a good group, the fun achieving goals with such a group that where on the edge and made everyone happy made me become an MMO fan.
At the end of the day it was the unsocial guys who did not manage to get good groups together who yelled and cried for a solo friendly game and that brought WOW on the desk. In games before WoW you could not solo to end level faster than in groups. It was only possible for some exceptional classes and those had other disadvantages over "group friendly" classes.
Compared to todays standards WoW is no longer the solo friendliest game and it has changed (from what i hear) to be more raid oriented in end game.
To sum it up, to me LOTRO was a disappointment, it was so narrow and linear which somewhat meant the opposite compared to the massive fantasy carried by the books. It is so close to be a single player game that it does not work out as an MMO for me, i rather play a fun single player game now and have ICQ running - that is lotro.
I am sure that there is epic quests in Lotro, but definitely not 1-20 which I played. It might be stupid to say that the noob levels are boring, but I mean there should be something to make you go "woah..". I did the epic book quest, was fun but the boring combat killed it..I'm sorry.
Well the epic quest prologue starts at level 5 and book 1 starts at lvl 10 and has 12 quests up to lvl 18. I am not sure how you missed those.
Combat is no more boring than most other MMOPRGs, it is not the type where you can macro your 5 top attacks and for them off like WoW or the SOE games. Wardens remind me of AoC a lot wth their gambits, gambits are neat as heck. Lore Master is a combo nuker, debffer, buffer, crowd control, pet class. Minstrels remind me of the classic battle cleric. RK's are just ...different if a little overpowered till the next patch. Captain is a combo tank pet class healer and buffer. I find the hunters, champs and guardians are not my playstyle, I tend to always lean toward mana slingers anyway but for some reason just wardens rock my world with their javalin/spear attacks.. Burglars in LoTRO can actually burgle mobs LOL, now aint that some stuff.
Perhaps if you could elaborate on what class you played and why you found it boring?
I am sure that there is epic quests in Lotro, but definitely not 1-20 which I played. It might be stupid to say that the noob levels are boring, but I mean there should be something to make you go "woah..". I did the epic book quest, was fun but the boring combat killed it..I'm sorry.
I would love to see an mmorpg that has fluid graphics, ragdoll psychics (even), not-instanced (ala WoW) and a looooot to do. Basicly, yes, it's gonna be like WoW, but with so much more. Hey, you can't flame me. WoW is the best mmorpg out there (in terms of content). If it just had better graphics, better animation, better combat. Woahh
Yeah...matter of opinion really. What I love about this game are the book quests and that is what drew me to the game. Will admit though that if you find those boring or y0ou aren't into them than this game isn't going to probably work for you.
I love it but certainly isn't for everyone. nor is everyone gonna like it.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
When I said I didnt know for sure the reason why I am bored of LOTRO very fast, that was the truth at that time. And at least for me, laying back and following the debate here for a while was helping me understand, what IMO happened. What I said in my 2nd post, that I outgrew that EQ-type of MMO gameplay, while MMos remained - by and large - the same. They perfected their old way, yes. I guess that is what seperates a lot of people here, and, tho thats only a shot in the dark, I suppose that is also the reason for many squabbles over games.
There are some, who feel the "old concept" is perfect enough, they always want "more of the same", maybe some new world, some new graphics, but in general the EQ-WOW line of games all over.
And there are others, like me, who after all those years have seen that often enough now and want something different, something really new. Not just old wine in new bottles, so to speak. That is entirely a personal matter. My instincts tell me however that over time those who will have enough of the EQ-WOW gameplay will grow more.
From my perspective LOTRO appears like the one eyed is king of the blind. But I demand more today. I see that as a constant rise. I started my MMO career with SWG, and there was practically no game at all. There was a world, and mobs and a sandbox, and thats it. I was happy with that "little", but I could not go back to that either. I always suspected, many people who found the old EQ1 great back in the days could not go really back to that kind of gameplay either. What I DONT see is, that, as many suspect, the trend is "simplification". WAR has tried that and fell on its face. I guess WOW-LOTRO is just as much "simplification" as a game can get, without getting totally superfluous.
What I seek today is something more personal, less cookiee cutter. Something where my doing feels to have an impact. I can't say how such a thing could be accomplished. I hope SWTOR will be able to. The problem is manyfold. I wrote about how I am bored about the symbolic combat now, in some other post, and that is also an aspect. It has many angles. And as surprising at it may seems, I *do* develop my view based on debates *sometimes*. So I dont think it is in vain. At least it allows us to sharpen our own understanding, to find words for things we only feel before we go into a debate.
Sidenote: It is still just a hobby, a pixel game and not worth a personal attack, my friends.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
When I said I didnt know for sure the reason why I am bored of LOTRO very fast, that was the truth at that time. And at least for me, laying back and following the debate here for a while was helping me understand, what IMO happened. What I said in my 2nd post, that I outgrew that EQ-type of MMO gameplay, while MMos remained - by and large - the same. They perfected their old way, yes. I guess that is what seperates a lot of people here, and, tho thats only a shot in the dark, I suppose that is also the reason for many squabbles over games. There are some, who feel the "old concept" is perfect enough, they always want "more of the same", maybe some new world, some new graphics, but in general the EQ-WOW line of games all over. And there are others, like me, who after all those years have seen that often enough now and want something different, something really new. Not just old wine in new bottles, so to speak. That is entirely a personal matter. My instincts tell me however that over time those who will have enough of the EQ-WOW gameplay will grow more. From my perspective LOTRO appears like the one eyed is king of the blind. But I demand more today. I see that as a constant rise. I started my MMO career with SWG, and there was practically no game at all. There was a world, and mobs and a sandbox, and thats it. I was happy with that "little", but I could not go back to that either. I always suspected, many people who found the old EQ1 great back in the days could not go really back to that kind of gameplay either. What I DONT see is, that, as many suspect, the trend is "simplification". WAR has tried that and fell on its face. I guess WOW-LOTRO is just as much "simplification" as a game can get, without getting totally superfluous. What I seek today is something more personal, less cookiee cutter. Something where my doing feels to have an impact. I can't say how such a thing could be accomplished. I hope SWTOR will be able to. The problem is manyfold. I wrote about how I am bored about the symbolic combat now, in some other post, and that is also an aspect. It has many angles. And as surprising at it may seems, I *do* develop my view based on debates *sometimes*. So I dont think it is in vain. At least it allows us to sharpen our own understanding, to find words for things we only feel before we go into a debate.
Sidenote: It is still just a hobby, a pixel game and not worth a personal attack, my friends.
I think you are on the same track i am. When EQ came out i was like: WHOA! a 3D world where i can meet and chat with others. (A dream came true at those days) I was like: If someon drops a spear everyone can SEE it and take it! WHOA! I could smith armor and sell it to players personally by meeting them at the kelethin bank. (from central lift go right bridge then left, then straight and you are there!) When they put my armor on they where happy that their borig leather look changed to banded armor.
There where languages you had to "teach" your character so he could understand them. (amazing concept never used for much but fun aspects). EQ created a world and behind each corner lurked death or adventure. Spells where almost undocumented it was weird and fun to find out in battle what exactly they do.
It was later, when players started to analyse the game mechanics and wanted to know and compare every single point of damage done by a DoT or DD spell when EQ became "old" and "boring". Every step of a quest was documented in the web, every loc of every mob and their placeholders, spawn times and so on. Player interaction got automated (Auction house anyone?)
Now we have quest journals and get the position of the next quest step on some sort of google earth minimap. Maps are drawn automatically, diving under water is not possible but hey, we can put hundreds of different titles over the head of our toons yeeha! In the name of war against exploits the games have become so simple and linear that you can now macro them and watch them being auto-played by your deluxe keyboard 2010.
What i expected from a license like lotro was to re-invent the genre. Making the WORLD dynamic because that was the biggest lack of the EQ-like worlds, they where static. A dynamic world where player action has consequences not only in the small (removing a boar spawn for 5 minutes by killing it) but also in other aspects. Hence even EQ had more dynamics when you screwed up factions you could not sell or buy from merchants or even got killed by guards. Doing something in EQ had a noticable impact on your character's environment. And it was like "wow, and oh! and oh my god!" when the first ogre entered kelethin because he had good enough faction with the guards for killing a quadzillion of orcs) The char interacted with the world. New faction systems are just grinds and time sinks with always the same result.
I find linear games boring.
I find quests that hand me locations and everything on a (silver)minimap(plate) boring.
I find player interaction where i never meet that player (auction house) boring.
I find fixed spawn times and positions boring.
I find crafting where i watch a progression bar from left to right boring.
I find lotro boring.
No spriit, no surprise, no dynamics - just linear gameplay on the few themepark attractions. No "real" story plot it is not a world where a story happens, it is a sightseeing tour where you can only watch.
How can a MMO be trully dynamic? The first person to complete a quest changes that world for everyone. What about the other million customers? That's how so called sandbox games stick to simple PvP that you can get in any FPS. It would be far too complex to involve all the customers in world changing quests. They'd be an elite finishing everything and the ordinary people would be quitting for lack of anything do to. Maybe RPG solo games would suit better? MMOs are like those Holywood theme park rides where everything pops back and sits into place ready to start all over for the next people on the ride! Take it or leave it as far as I'm concerned.
How can a MMO be trully dynamic? The first person to complete a quest changes that world for everyone. What about the other million customers? That's how so called sandbox games stick to simple PvP that you can get in any FPS. It would be far too complex to involve all the customers in world changing quests. They'd be an elite finishing everything and the ordinary people would be quitting for lack of anything do to. Maybe RPG solo games would suit better? MMOs are like those Holywood theme park rides where everything pops back and sits into place ready to start all over for the next people on the ride! Take it or leave it as far as I'm concerned.
The trick is to make complex dynamic circles that open new content, so that at any given time enough is to do. When you finished the quest to empty your fridge do you starve and die? No, you have a new quest to buy new food.
Simple example would be Seasons, you have spring quests to plant vegetables, you have summer quests to water the plants and defend them vs orcs, you have autumn quests to gather the stuff and you have winter quests to defend the food from starving animals and monsters.
You can make this simple example as complex as you wish and give different states of circumstances depending how players behave.
The effect would be that especially a casual gamer would find the world much more breathing and alive since locations he visited before would drastically change on the next visit.
The theme park bs where everyone is handed the canned identical and linear piece of adventure are the old model.
How can a MMO be trully dynamic? The first person to complete a quest changes that world for everyone. What about the other million customers? That's how so called sandbox games stick to simple PvP that you can get in any FPS. It would be far too complex to involve all the customers in world changing quests. They'd be an elite finishing everything and the ordinary people would be quitting for lack of anything do to. Maybe RPG solo games would suit better? MMOs are like those Holywood theme park rides where everything pops back and sits into place ready to start all over for the next people on the ride! Take it or leave it as far as I'm concerned.
The trick is to make complex dynamic circles that open new content, so that at any given time enough is to do. When you finished the quest to empty your fridge do you starve and die? No, you have a new quest to buy new food.
Simple example would be Seasons, you have spring quests to plant vegetables, you have summer quests to water the plants and defend them vs orcs, you have autumn quests to gather the stuff and you have winter quests to defend the food from starving animals and monsters.
You can make this simple example as complex as you wish and give different states of circumstances depending how players behave.
The effect would be that especially a casual gamer would find the world much more breathing and alive since locations he visited before would drastically change on the next visit.
The theme park bs where everyone is handed the canned identical and linear piece of adventure are the old model.
I must say I came to MMOs from a Pen and Paper background, and I was instantly disappointed in how non-changing the world was. Everyone got the same "kill 20 rats" quests, and 90% of the quests was a copy-paste version of it. Insofar I tasted enough of this simple gameplay now. I think that past games caught the spirit of open world a bit better. The uncertainty added a sort of "reality" that maybe wasnt really there.
Let me make an example. In the old days of say, when Ultima V-VII was new, graphics where not photo realistic, but nice for me. Much of it was not in the game, but rather in my mind. Or with pearls like the first System Shock. I felt that game was WAY more spooky than say Bioshock. Photorealism kinda kills a bit of the fantasy. No shock is as great as the one in your head. And IMVPO the "gaps" in games like UO and EQ1 were similarly filled with the imagination of the players. There was also SO MUCH to discover, so much for such a long time. I recall well it took me YEARS to really discover the majority of the SWG content. That too had that language learning thing. I dont want to preach the return to SWG or EQ, but the way games are made today just IS a sort of simplification, also. Which add it all this.
In the old days, games were not more personal, or not much more. But we FELT like it, because they were vast, open and it took time to explore and know it all. So there always was this imagined secret lands or regions not yet seen in our minds. Today it is all mapped and charted and explained in Allakazam, and everyone uses the "optimal skill setting" as explained of website XYZ. It is no longer really the feeling to exploring strange new worlds, but to see familiar things over and over again. The novelty is gone for us, and the game scopes have also become more narrow IMO. Even tho the existing parts have been perfected, no doubt.
How a dynamic MMO could look I cant say. But I hope we are gonna see more than what we have seen so far. ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
Serious and professional product, new areas, nice community, great design... but boring gameplay
Came back to Lotro and found it boring.
Why ?
1° there's no challenge. Make a group with 3 run keeper and 2 warden and you'll finish all dungeons quickly, without one death, without one wipe. It's NOW (was in the closed beta) too easy. Did all GBD in 30 min. (i'm a casual gamer) At the beginning, it was hard to finish Great Barrow downs, now it's not fun, it's too easy.
2° the game is too linear. Nothing changed since release/. THe universe is always the same, you can see 2 orcs attacking trestle, no more. Nothing changed since release.
3° there's only 1 PVP area (nothing changed since beta)
4° This game is bugged, more buggy than it was at release and in the beta (That's new. Lotro was perfect in beta, now it's buggy)
Lotro is now too easy with the 2 new classes.,The RK, what kind of JEDI is it ? oO They kill and destroy anything and they heal anyone. So you'll find more and more RK each day.
Rune Keeper on the ring online, RK more powerful than Gandalf himself. W and RK are going to kill the game, as Jedi killed SWG.
I agree with you for the most part. For me though I would put community at number two and combat at number one, my personal preference though. I don't know why but with lotro I just wasn't feeling the combat so to speak. I guess it was the animations just felt tacky to me and the way skills queued to be more rhythmic instead of instant bothered me. Unfortunately I couldn't over look that, but LoTROs community seemed a lot more social than other MMOs, I would put it at second behind FFXI and only because in FFXI (in the old days) you couldn't solo anything at all. I pretty much game hop around because no MMO has gotten all the important things to me, they all seem to have one feature I love and another just as important missing
I miss DAoC
I enjoyed my time playing Lotro but after a while I wondered why I was playing a Solo Rpg.
Seriously Why make an MMO so solo friendly that you could quest stack 95% of the time in the game.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
Not noing to call out anyone in particular, just awant to make a few points.
1. I'm glad the OP actually typed out what he meant. That post would have a good starting point for a discussion instead of the ten page mess that this thread consists of. I disagree with many of his opinions, particularly that LoTRO will only have long term appeal for first time MMO gamers. I've been playing these things since Scars Vellious era EQ (and I dabbled in MUDs before that), I have tried at least two dozen MMOs that I can think of off the top of my head, and nothing has come anywhere near holding my attention as long as LoTRO. However, the OP does make some good points in his longer post and he's not pretending his opinions are anything but opinions. Bravo.
2. Any MMO will have occaisional bugs and balance issues. LoTRO has had fewer bugs than anything I've played apart from WoW, and has had fewer and more minor class balance issues than any MMO I have ever played. You can certainly find some insatnces of me whining about class changes if you scour the net, but overall in the grand scheme of things this game has had pretty minor issues. The current problem with Blackarrows is literally the worst class balance problem I can think of since the game launched. if you have played SWG or DAoC, you know what real class balance issues are like.
LoTRO is also a hell of a lot easier at low levels than at high levels, that is by design. The first ten levels of this game are currently a bit too easy in my mind, but that's hardly the entire game.
3. Anyone that claims that LoTRO is "95%" solo is ignorant or lying. You can indeed play it that way, there is plenty of solo content to get to the cap. However, from roughly level 18 on there is also enough group only content to get to the cap. In launch LoTRO there were large stretches of the game that consisted only of group content (much to our chagrin). At any given level, the best gear is locked behind group quests. For example, if you actually take the time to do all the quests in Fornost you will end up with gear that makes anything else you can get at that level look dumb.
If you were expecting a game where you are forced to group to get anything done at all, you picked the wrong MMO. See FFXI. LoTRO supports both solo and group play at all but the lowest levels.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
we all got to remember that just because a game is quote un quote Easy it does not make for a bad game. If they made every game tailored to The "gamer" they would be leaving a lot of community out. ok some times im not best with word so ill give an example. A note first this is not trying to dog any game.
My wife loved FF11 for the fact that most of the concepts were easy to understand and the mechanics/game play was new player (wether it be FF11 or any game) friendly, so she enjoyed it very much. She tryed WoW,not her cup of tea so to speak, the combat system was a little advanced for her/semi twitch IE faster paced and such. And im not trying to point it just to Feamles..just using MY wife as an example,no shovanizim here
And as it has been said so many times not every game is for everyone. as most of ya'll ive played my share of MMOs and I find the speed of combat in Lotro a tad slow but refreshing because im not freaking out about 20 differant skills I need to activate in 10 seconds. ok off subject ....Its got a Free trial,try it for your self and you decide
http://www.lotro.com/trial/?utm_source=Google_S_UFBrand&utm_medium=Text&utm_campaign=Anniv09Trial0&referral=127284&gclid=CNGX8-2Zu5oCFQkzawodKBNJbg
On one more note IMO community makes up a big part of quality in a game for me, and i have personlly heard very good things about LOTROs community.
1 It's not an exageration. Was in a group: 2 RK, 1 hunt, 1 healer and me as warden. The 2 RK finished "alone" and made ALL the quest, "taking the weathertop", killing mobs in few seconds, we, the other members of the group couldn't do nothing else but looking at these 2 jedi likes, destroying even the troll on the top as it was a low levl mob. Had the same exp with Great barrow downs ... zero wipe in the group, zero fun, 100% run. RK are really owerpowered. So everyone is playing now RK. I was lotro closed beta tester, the game was really fun on BT. Very fun and interesting. Now there"s zero challenge. I am a casual gamer, not an achiever, and i really think lotro is too casual oriented now. It's too easy. Really too easy. I can finish 90% of quests alone with my Warden, I know maybe 10% of the gambits, but it's enough to win and kill all mobs. The game was HARD on beta, really hard, with my hunter; harder but more interesting, now it's (i'm sorry) another clone for hyper casual players. Lotro changed with/since MoM.
2 The anti exploit bug (not only on evendim, but everywhere...) is really annoying and needs a fix since MONTHS
way to exaggerate, and reading comp for the win.
First of all you claim the RKs can clear any instance based on your experience with 1 instance. I don't think anyone, even the RK's and Wardens would disagree with the fact that Turbine has made them a bit too powerful. I am wondering if Turbines latest contests ( you can pretty much sum them up as power leveling contests) were meant to give them some metrics for future adjustement.
You obviously still have not read the book 8 patch notes that I referenced because the RK's are being toned down with book 8. Maybe not enough or maybe just right , I am glad just to see the matter approached with a scalpel rather than a chainsaw. Ok on your "example" I would also ask what level those two RKs were but you would probably claim they were level 10 or 20 when in fact they were probably high 30's or even higher. Screenshot or it did not happen as they say. I have went through and cleared Weathertop myself with my minnie or my LM for kinmates (usually for alts of players that have done it 3 or 4 times) who just wanted the quest done so they could move on. Even if the RK's were mid to high 20's you had a good group, 3 DD'ers ( rk's and hunter). a tank ( you) and a healer. So WTF is the problem? Maybe you wanted to DD instead of tank, next time get in a group with a guardian maybe.
Secondly yes I am aware that the anti exploit was every where but it was worst in Evendim because of all the water there and it was fixed last week and no it did not last "months". Doing a search on the official forums it looks like it started the first or second week of April going by the anti exploit bug threads there, so if you had typed " it lasted weeks" instead of months you might be correct. Looks like it took them right at a month to correct it. Now if you want a company that takes months or years to fix anything go play a SOE game or a Funcom game for a while and Turbines "weeks" will seem like heaven to you.
All in all however I would have to give you a 8 on the rant/troll scale because of how you based your complaints on facts, even if they were exaggerated and irrelevant, instead of subjective opinions like most of the complainers who post here. Well done.
I miss DAoC
This made my night :P
Discussions like these are such a waste of time. Everybody has an opinion and that's what if is..an opinion. Opinions are allowed to be different. Different games appeal to different people. If one game is boring to you play another. If you like a game and it's not boring to you subscribe and enjoy yourself. The only one responsible for your boredom is you. Each game is created in a way that's interesting to the people who design it and they hope what they find fun others will find fun. LOTRO is my favorite game to date and I've played most of them.
I bought the lifetime subscription and can play or not and I don't feel I need to spend so many hours a month to get my money's worth. Is it a perfect game?...no, there is no such thing. Does it offer the most immersive environment? Yes...In My Opinion. Is it soloable? yes...but not entirely...many many quests require groups to finish. Is the community pleasant and helpful...not on all servers...so I changed servers and have never had as much fun...fun to me is the roleplaying aspect ... the cooperative aspect ... and the immersive aspect...all of which I have at this time.
Boredom is a long ways away. Based on what the Dev's are saying on the future it may never come. As someone stated earlier changes and improvements in weaknesses are done with a scalpel not a broadsword which is the proper approach.
As far as the health of the game...it is still growing...they haven't added any servers but are moving to higher performance servers which are being tested.
So the bottom line is nothing is for everyone. There are as many tastes and opinions as there are people. If the game is right for you then's it's good. So if it's boring go try something else. It's not like the old days when there were only 2 or 3 choices.
Damn that was a good first post, welcome to the forum
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Discussions like these are not a waste of time. Many of us come here and have for years to talk seriously about topics like this. The trolling and insulting instead of discussing is a waste of time.
Many need to realize the truth of your last statement. These forums at mmorpg.com are fill with the same old "there are no good mmos". What a bunch of horse poop. Many of us have been in mmos since the first 3d mmo Meridian 59 in 1996. There have never been more choices and good mmos on the market. People need to start playing the mmos for what they are, not some dream mmo that does not exist.
If this is indeed your first post here welcome to the forums. It will be nice to add another thoughtful person to the mix here.
Damn that was a good first post, welcome to the forum
Gotta give credit where it belongs. Excellent post indeed!
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Problem with Lotro for me and alot of other fans of the books and movies is that we expected Lotro to be much more....well, much more "lord of the rings". But coming up as it is, the game left us irritated. It left many of us wondering if "kill 8 wolfs", "kill 10 spiders", "bring this bag to old snaggletooth down the road" is all this epic setting is able to provide in a video game.
Turbine didn't aim on catching the epic portion, but went for a themepark+co game aimed at the younger crowd. Come on, "morale" and such...where does all this fit into the dark and rough world of lotro? It could and should have been so much more. It should be vast and epic... and for shure not like "deliver this cake to aunt flummy in time"
Turbine delivered a solid game, but that's also all about it. To me it feels too much like a "game", just "another game" based on the same formula and too little like Lotro in the sense of the books. Shure is has it's locations, places and characters for the fans of the books to recognize. But to me it rather feels like the Lotro-license put on a established business-formula (Blizzard's). I almost dare to say that it could have been any other setting/license, would have been the same game.
On a sidenote: WAR kind of hits the same spot. For many fans it's not enough AARRRRGHHH!!, but too much "license put on business formula" -hence they set all their hope on W40k to become the "real" warhammer.
Both IPs deserve their own game. Not a rip-off in disguise.
heh and I can point you towards another thread where someone was bitching thta the quests in Lothlorien ( sp) were boring because they included such things as admonishing drunken reverlers, lighting tghe torches for a feast, picking grapes etc.
Just out of curiosity did you hang in there long enough to do the quest in Evendim where you had to find and throw stones to distract the trolls and get them fighting so you could steal a item? Did'nt think so. How about any of the quests where you had to figure out and perform the correct emote? Or maybe any of the riddle quests where they gave you a riddle and you had to figure it out and find the correct item? Or maybe the quests where you had to get two lovebirds together and dend the suitor from the sweethearts brothers? How about the instance quests where you do not play your own toon but instead you play a character and class in a instance that is part of the storyline?
Gee maybe Turbine does have something besides fedex and kill quests. But then I am sure you can find a problem with those also.
I miss DAoC
I agree with wishing for an accurate representation of Tolkein's world... If I ever hit the Powerball I'm gonna buy the game and the rights and make that game...There will be only the two of us playing it because not many people will subscribe to it. Most are programmed with the D&D mindset and wouldn't find enough in the game to entertain them.
The game is very distant from how I envision interacting in Middle Earth...but it's as close as I'm gonna get so i'll take it. Visually they nailed it. To Turbine's credit they did a heck of a job allowing you to help the fellowship indirectly which is quite satisfying. I totally enjoyed watching the fellowship leave Rivendell on their way to destroy the Ring and being told that though I couldn't go with them I could help them in other ways was my favorite moment in any game to date.
So you take what you can get when it comes to your favorite genre and game. I tried WOW and there were places that reminded me of the Flintstones they were so cartoony. LOTRO nails Middle Earth and Moria and Lothlorien...WOW!!!
Thank You for the kind comments and yes I guess the arguing about opinions is what is really the waste of time.
I am sure that there is epic quests in Lotro, but definitely not 1-20 which I played. It might be stupid to say that the noob levels are boring, but I mean there should be something to make you go "woah..". I did the epic book quest, was fun but the boring combat killed it..I'm sorry.
I would love to see an mmorpg that has fluid graphics, ragdoll psychics (even), not-instanced (ala WoW) and a looooot to do. Basicly, yes, it's gonna be like WoW, but with so much more. Hey, you can't flame me. WoW is the best mmorpg out there (in terms of content). If it just had better graphics, better animation, better combat. Woahh
In my opinion (and thats not more but my opinion) lotro is a narrow minded linear boring piece of s....oftware.
The best thing about it is that it has an integrated internet chat where you can add some amusement with the right people. (Aka friends, kin, community blabla). But: You can have the same amusement in internet chats without 3D enviroment. This entertainment has nada to do with LOTRO, it is simply one of the reasons why i still like the genre. Socialising and interacting with others, makes the difference over single player games for me.
Unfortunatly LOTRO does not encourage socialising much, it is possible to do so but not knitted into the gameplay. The massive solo friendlyness does have the disadvantage that socialising and forming groups is not a "part of the game" but just a given side-feature (internet chat)
It can be frustrating to be LFG for houers, i had this in older games, but the satisfaction to be in a good group, the fun achieving goals with such a group that where on the edge and made everyone happy made me become an MMO fan.
At the end of the day it was the unsocial guys who did not manage to get good groups together who yelled and cried for a solo friendly game and that brought WOW on the desk. In games before WoW you could not solo to end level faster than in groups. It was only possible for some exceptional classes and those had other disadvantages over "group friendly" classes.
Compared to todays standards WoW is no longer the solo friendliest game and it has changed (from what i hear) to be more raid oriented in end game.
To sum it up, to me LOTRO was a disappointment, it was so narrow and linear which somewhat meant the opposite compared to the massive fantasy carried by the books. It is so close to be a single player game that it does not work out as an MMO for me, i rather play a fun single player game now and have ICQ running - that is lotro.
In short: a wasted license.
Well the epic quest prologue starts at level 5 and book 1 starts at lvl 10 and has 12 quests up to lvl 18. I am not sure how you missed those.
Combat is no more boring than most other MMOPRGs, it is not the type where you can macro your 5 top attacks and for them off like WoW or the SOE games. Wardens remind me of AoC a lot wth their gambits, gambits are neat as heck. Lore Master is a combo nuker, debffer, buffer, crowd control, pet class. Minstrels remind me of the classic battle cleric. RK's are just ...different if a little overpowered till the next patch. Captain is a combo tank pet class healer and buffer. I find the hunters, champs and guardians are not my playstyle, I tend to always lean toward mana slingers anyway but for some reason just wardens rock my world with their javalin/spear attacks.. Burglars in LoTRO can actually burgle mobs LOL, now aint that some stuff.
Perhaps if you could elaborate on what class you played and why you found it boring?
I miss DAoC
Yeah...matter of opinion really. What I love about this game are the book quests and that is what drew me to the game. Will admit though that if you find those boring or y0ou aren't into them than this game isn't going to probably work for you.
I love it but certainly isn't for everyone. nor is everyone gonna like it.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
When I said I didnt know for sure the reason why I am bored of LOTRO very fast, that was the truth at that time. And at least for me, laying back and following the debate here for a while was helping me understand, what IMO happened. What I said in my 2nd post, that I outgrew that EQ-type of MMO gameplay, while MMos remained - by and large - the same. They perfected their old way, yes. I guess that is what seperates a lot of people here, and, tho thats only a shot in the dark, I suppose that is also the reason for many squabbles over games.
There are some, who feel the "old concept" is perfect enough, they always want "more of the same", maybe some new world, some new graphics, but in general the EQ-WOW line of games all over.
And there are others, like me, who after all those years have seen that often enough now and want something different, something really new. Not just old wine in new bottles, so to speak. That is entirely a personal matter. My instincts tell me however that over time those who will have enough of the EQ-WOW gameplay will grow more.
From my perspective LOTRO appears like the one eyed is king of the blind. But I demand more today. I see that as a constant rise. I started my MMO career with SWG, and there was practically no game at all. There was a world, and mobs and a sandbox, and thats it. I was happy with that "little", but I could not go back to that either. I always suspected, many people who found the old EQ1 great back in the days could not go really back to that kind of gameplay either. What I DONT see is, that, as many suspect, the trend is "simplification". WAR has tried that and fell on its face. I guess WOW-LOTRO is just as much "simplification" as a game can get, without getting totally superfluous.
What I seek today is something more personal, less cookiee cutter. Something where my doing feels to have an impact. I can't say how such a thing could be accomplished. I hope SWTOR will be able to. The problem is manyfold. I wrote about how I am bored about the symbolic combat now, in some other post, and that is also an aspect. It has many angles. And as surprising at it may seems, I *do* develop my view based on debates *sometimes*.
So I dont think it is in vain. At least it allows us to sharpen our own understanding, to find words for things we only feel before we go into a debate.
Sidenote: It is still just a hobby, a pixel game and not worth a personal attack, my friends.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I think you are on the same track i am. When EQ came out i was like: WHOA! a 3D world where i can meet and chat with others. (A dream came true at those days) I was like: If someon drops a spear everyone can SEE it and take it! WHOA! I could smith armor and sell it to players personally by meeting them at the kelethin bank. (from central lift go right bridge then left, then straight and you are there!) When they put my armor on they where happy that their borig leather look changed to banded armor.
There where languages you had to "teach" your character so he could understand them. (amazing concept never used for much but fun aspects). EQ created a world and behind each corner lurked death or adventure. Spells where almost undocumented it was weird and fun to find out in battle what exactly they do.
It was later, when players started to analyse the game mechanics and wanted to know and compare every single point of damage done by a DoT or DD spell when EQ became "old" and "boring". Every step of a quest was documented in the web, every loc of every mob and their placeholders, spawn times and so on. Player interaction got automated (Auction house anyone?)
Now we have quest journals and get the position of the next quest step on some sort of google earth minimap. Maps are drawn automatically, diving under water is not possible but hey, we can put hundreds of different titles over the head of our toons yeeha! In the name of war against exploits the games have become so simple and linear that you can now macro them and watch them being auto-played by your deluxe keyboard 2010.
What i expected from a license like lotro was to re-invent the genre. Making the WORLD dynamic because that was the biggest lack of the EQ-like worlds, they where static. A dynamic world where player action has consequences not only in the small (removing a boar spawn for 5 minutes by killing it) but also in other aspects. Hence even EQ had more dynamics when you screwed up factions you could not sell or buy from merchants or even got killed by guards. Doing something in EQ had a noticable impact on your character's environment. And it was like "wow, and oh! and oh my god!" when the first ogre entered kelethin because he had good enough faction with the guards for killing a quadzillion of orcs) The char interacted with the world. New faction systems are just grinds and time sinks with always the same result.
I find linear games boring.
I find quests that hand me locations and everything on a (silver)minimap(plate) boring.
I find player interaction where i never meet that player (auction house) boring.
I find fixed spawn times and positions boring.
I find crafting where i watch a progression bar from left to right boring.
I find lotro boring.
No spriit, no surprise, no dynamics - just linear gameplay on the few themepark attractions. No "real" story plot it is not a world where a story happens, it is a sightseeing tour where you can only watch.
How can a MMO be trully dynamic? The first person to complete a quest changes that world for everyone. What about the other million customers? That's how so called sandbox games stick to simple PvP that you can get in any FPS. It would be far too complex to involve all the customers in world changing quests. They'd be an elite finishing everything and the ordinary people would be quitting for lack of anything do to. Maybe RPG solo games would suit better? MMOs are like those Holywood theme park rides where everything pops back and sits into place ready to start all over for the next people on the ride! Take it or leave it as far as I'm concerned.
The trick is to make complex dynamic circles that open new content, so that at any given time enough is to do. When you finished the quest to empty your fridge do you starve and die? No, you have a new quest to buy new food.
Simple example would be Seasons, you have spring quests to plant vegetables, you have summer quests to water the plants and defend them vs orcs, you have autumn quests to gather the stuff and you have winter quests to defend the food from starving animals and monsters.
You can make this simple example as complex as you wish and give different states of circumstances depending how players behave.
The effect would be that especially a casual gamer would find the world much more breathing and alive since locations he visited before would drastically change on the next visit.
The theme park bs where everyone is handed the canned identical and linear piece of adventure are the old model.
The trick is to make complex dynamic circles that open new content, so that at any given time enough is to do. When you finished the quest to empty your fridge do you starve and die? No, you have a new quest to buy new food.
Simple example would be Seasons, you have spring quests to plant vegetables, you have summer quests to water the plants and defend them vs orcs, you have autumn quests to gather the stuff and you have winter quests to defend the food from starving animals and monsters.
You can make this simple example as complex as you wish and give different states of circumstances depending how players behave.
The effect would be that especially a casual gamer would find the world much more breathing and alive since locations he visited before would drastically change on the next visit.
The theme park bs where everyone is handed the canned identical and linear piece of adventure are the old model.
I must say I came to MMOs from a Pen and Paper background, and I was instantly disappointed in how non-changing the world was. Everyone got the same "kill 20 rats" quests, and 90% of the quests was a copy-paste version of it. Insofar I tasted enough of this simple gameplay now. I think that past games caught the spirit of open world a bit better. The uncertainty added a sort of "reality" that maybe wasnt really there.
Let me make an example. In the old days of say, when Ultima V-VII was new, graphics where not photo realistic, but nice for me. Much of it was not in the game, but rather in my mind. Or with pearls like the first System Shock. I felt that game was WAY more spooky than say Bioshock. Photorealism kinda kills a bit of the fantasy. No shock is as great as the one in your head. And IMVPO the "gaps" in games like UO and EQ1 were similarly filled with the imagination of the players. There was also SO MUCH to discover, so much for such a long time. I recall well it took me YEARS to really discover the majority of the SWG content. That too had that language learning thing. I dont want to preach the return to SWG or EQ, but the way games are made today just IS a sort of simplification, also. Which add it all this.
In the old days, games were not more personal, or not much more. But we FELT like it, because they were vast, open and it took time to explore and know it all. So there always was this imagined secret lands or regions not yet seen in our minds. Today it is all mapped and charted and explained in Allakazam, and everyone uses the "optimal skill setting" as explained of website XYZ. It is no longer really the feeling to exploring strange new worlds, but to see familiar things over and over again. The novelty is gone for us, and the game scopes have also become more narrow IMO. Even tho the existing parts have been perfected, no doubt.
How a dynamic MMO could look I cant say. But I hope we are gonna see more than what we have seen so far. ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert