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Star Wars: ToR - an epic FAIL already
Draccan
Member Posts: 1,050
New trailer looked sweet and awesome. But what is a cinematics trailer for a game? Nothing. Once you play the game it won't matter. Cinematics trailers are just fun. And this one rivalled some of the best cinematics I have seen.
But truth is that Bioware is still keeping major parts of what this game is about under wraps. But for sure some things can be concluded now:
1. Classes. Players will be stuck in one class.
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes
Seems to be eight classes. Jedi: Trooper, Jedi, Smuggler | Sith: Sith, Bounty Hunter
2. Factions. Players will be stuck in a faction - nothings points to mobility in allegiance.
Treaty of Coruscant = no real pvp
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/allegiances
3. Space. Not going to be included. We would have known by now.
Some will add: SWG didn't have it at launch, but this isn't 2003. Market is now very over-saturated with mmos and will be even more in a few years. Companies like Funcom counts on selling just enough copies at launch to give them a surplus. They know their games don't have lasting potential. ToR will have even less longevity than AoC.
4. Instances. Hard to say, but I wouldn't be surprised they go the way of AoC.
5. Crafting. Bioware states time and time again that this game is about story and heroes. Crafting is not part of their thought-proces. It isn't that slick, so why include it. Crafting is about creating your OWN story. And Bioware's idea of story-telling is that THEY need to direct your story.
6. Non-combat classes. This game will center on heroes. Meaning, vanilla gameplay with limited options. Don't expect anything but minor non-combat skills.
7. Release date. Not going to be before 2011. These games always get postponed. Just wait and see. Could even be later.
8. Gameplay linear? Yes it will be. While technically possible to create great stories in a non-linear environment.
9. Housing? Player Cities? Housing and player cities also goes against the grain of their story-driven mmo where players are heroes, not housebuilder or crafters.
10. Combat system. Not much is known. But it will be smaller variety on the WoW/EQ formula. Sort of like other games like TCoS or AoC tries to change the formula. Don't expect something truly different, but something towards those lines. Maybe with a few twitch elements here and there.
11. Jedis. This time period is chosen to appeal to all the kids who wants to have a light-saber swining jedi (or sith). It is the lowest common denominator. There is no two ways about. But the uniqueness of the jedi character will drown in the multitudes of them after a while. Will that feeling of "wow a lightsaber" last?
12. PvP. A bit unclear. Except it to be children friendly. But since it is factional there must be some. A cross between WoW and WAR is not unheard of. Can anyone honestly expect something more hardcore with the direction this game is taking?
13. Graphics. Most likely next-gen graphics. Some improvements on existing ways of doing it. Maybe similar to AoC quality.
Conclusion:
This game is the NGE that LA always wanted. It will be linear, story-driven, have few hours of longevity, cater to the light-saber crowds, kids - tie in with graphical style of the Clone Wars, little crafting, not hardcore pvp, not many options, but lots of hand-holding and lead you through the maze..
Some might now jump in and say that it is guess-work, that we don't know all the facts; that maybe there will be deep crafting, hardcore pvp, housing, space flight etc. But these comments are ignorant and nothing to do with the truth. Truth is that the path of TOR is already set and it is set up for eye candy and a hollow gameplay. Not a real MMO as it won't be that massive or free.
Games make and break at launch now. There is no time to make space six to twelve months after (and what good did it really do SWG in the long run). There is no time to make that expansion that fixes all the problems (WAR + AoC). Either you make it or you will suffer a slow, suffocating death.
Bioware has taken the easy route of doing everything as simple and dumped-down as possible. It won't be hardcore pvp, it won't be massive diverse game with many play-options like crafting and non-combat professions.
What game companies does not understand is that the whole foundation of mmos is built around the principle that players should have the option of doing what THEY want in the game. Interact in many ways and not just kill-botting each other or npcs over and over. The combat oriented gamer should want the crafters and non-combatees to give flair and atmosphere to their game - to be able to interact with when needing an armour or a new weapon. This is what breathes life into the genre.
What Bioware is doing is to put one more nail in the mmo genre coffin. This game might get close to a million boxes sold or even 1.5 - but in the end it will be like many other mmos out there with empty, EMPTY servers after six months. People will buy it for the name, Star Wars, but leave when they see there is no freedom in this game. For Bioware it will mean not only breaking even, but also making a big chunk of cash - but for the players - the gaming community - it is just one more way to kill PC gaming..
Draccan
Update:
http://www.starwarsmmo.net/news/edge-magazine-bioware-interview/
The Old Republics Game Director - new interview:
"Most importantly, you never want people to have to look for fun. People want to be guided - they don't want to have to find the fun."
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Comments
All I got from the entire rant was that TOR will be an MMO.
Oh and SWG is dead and good riddance I say.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
eh? are you an MMO Prophet? okay Moses whatever you say.
Sadly the OP might be right. What we've seen so far isn't really all that impressive in the way of the game itself. It seems there will not be much variety in weapons for like the Trooper class - beyond color schemes. Armor seems a variation of the same. The fact that there seems to be no space combat (ship-to-ship) is sad. I dunno. I will wait and see what they show us on Wednesday...but to be honest I do not think it will be all that impressive. God I hope I am wrong.
awww my poor pre NGE fanboi ...are your hopes of a pre CU SWG finally shattered and you need to lash out at the new SW game hmm?
lol what a joke of a thread - too bad you don't realize that the things you think are bad about SWTOR are things people actually WANT in an MMO and the lack of these "flaws" was the reason pre CU SWG died a horrible death.
You sound like a Sith, because only they deal in absolutes.
SWTOR will be just another vanilla MMO. The concept that was dead for 4 years allready , but major money makers like EA didnt get it yet
Bye, good luck finding a game that has what you want. I'm happy with what i've heard so far.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Lol that in itself is an absolute.
You do not think rational...... much like a Sith as well
Nah. He's perfectly right. That's the way this game is going to be in the eyes of the sandbox/SWG pre-CU/UO crowd. It will be a failure because it doesn't cater to their tastes and thus, can't be good.
Everyone else....well, I'd advise people, as usual, to stay put and wait. As i said before, BioWare has a big chunk of respect from me, simply because so far, they have never disappointed me with a game, so I am fairly optimistic about this one. That the trailer doesn't tell anything about the game, is just common sense.
And that in the end, people should wait for the final product to be just around the corner to make up their minds is also common sense. Except for the sandbox/UO crowd. Because for them, this game is definately not the one. I don't say this with a sense of anger or hatred towards those people, but just as a statement of fact.
Cheers.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
This is why you don't jump on the hype-wagon. As far as we know there could be one weapon model for the entire game or tens of thousands.
We have only seen, what, four classes through what we have been shown, two of which have been announced? Does that mean this is all we are going to get? No, hardly anything has been release and people are tearing the game apart. Lets sit back, take a deep breath, un-wad our undies, and wait for some more info before wailing with the doom and gloom.
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You may be right, but that hardly makes it 'epic FAIL,' or whatever other annoying leet expression takes over the cliche of the month mantle.
The reality is that what you described is what the majority of gamers want, and what 11 million + are paying Blizzard good money for as we speak. Since 'epic fail' is nothing but a meaningless generality, I assume you meant as it relates to your personal gaming enjoyment. I can certainly guarantee you that TOR will be anything but an 'epic fail' financially, which is what matters matters at the end of the day.
Carry on though, I'm sure somewhere some dev team is itching to hear your views on successful game design.
Lol that in itself is an absolute.
You do not think rational...... much like a Sith as well
You don't know the power of the darkside!!!
mcharj11, you were said to destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave us in darkness!!!! You were like a brother to me! I LOVED U MCHARJ11.
This is why you don't jump on the hype-wagon. As far as we know there could be one weapon model for the entire game or tens of thousands.
We have only seen, what, four classes through what we have been shown, two of which have been announced? Does that mean this is all we are going to get? No, hardly anything has been release and people are tearing the game apart. Lets sit back, take a deep breath, un-wad our undies, and wait for some more info before wailing with the doom and gloom.
Well their own website is geared towards four classes pr. side. Look at the link in my post.
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Well, an other one of the comical SWG 'vets', who makes me ashamed to be an SWG vet, going on the 'let's sink TOR if it isn't pre-cu SWG' crusade. Good luck with that. You will fail, people will laugh at you, don't tell me I didn't warn you.
LAWL!
Please, stop wasting time, you're calling a game that isn't even in beta yet a failure?
I find it humourous at the amount of SWG players (current and pre-CU fans alike) put so much effort into writing severely negative posts about a game that isn't a solid product yet. This is Bioware we're talking about here, one of the best game companies around, WTF are you guys trying to do?
I don't think that the title of this thread does the post justice.
The OP makes some fairly rational assumptions based upon what is currently known about the game and taking into account that it's not all that much, he may well be fairly close to the mark.
I'm looking forward to this game and Bioware have always made great RPGs, but making a great MMORPG that allows it's players to create something of an alternate life within a persistant virtual world and making a great RPG that lots of people play at the same time are two different things.
I'm thinking that ToR is going to be the second of those two things.
You may be right, but that hardly makes it 'epic FAIL,' or whatever other annoying leet expression takes over the cliche of the month mantle.
The reality is that what you described is what the majority of gamers want, and what 11 million + are paying Blizzard good money for as we speak. Since 'epic fail' is nothing but a meaningless generality, I assume you meant as it relates to your personal gaming enjoyment. I can certainly guarantee you that TOR will be anything but an 'epic fail' financially, which is what matters matters at the end of the day.
Carry on though, I'm sure somewhere some dev team is itching to hear your views on successful game design.
If this is what all gamers want, why are all subsequent mmo games made since WoW in trouble (with LotRO as a possible exception)? Why are half the threads in this forum about Darkfall, even though it is a poorly designed game.. imagine that it had been made properly?
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CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
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You may be right, but that hardly makes it 'epic FAIL,' or whatever other annoying leet expression takes over the cliche of the month mantle.
The reality is that what you described is what the majority of gamers want, and what 11 million + are paying Blizzard good money for as we speak. Since 'epic fail' is nothing but a meaningless generality, I assume you meant as it relates to your personal gaming enjoyment. I can certainly guarantee you that TOR will be anything but an 'epic fail' financially, which is what matters matters at the end of the day.
Carry on though, I'm sure somewhere some dev team is itching to hear your views on successful game design.
Very concisely put. This will mot likely be the reality, providing the game does not turn out to be a stinker.
People, just because you liked pre-CU SWG, does not mean you can not like an other type of game or MMO, and certainly does not mean that the majority of people want a themepark experience. After nine hours in the office or school and taking care of other real life obligations, most people simply do not have the energy to contribute to a sandbox environment.
They have also said that the quests you do will affect your character.
There is nothing saying that they wont use their classic aligment system from KOTOR/NWN where you actions decide your faction and it can change if you do enough evil/good deads.
I trust Bioware, all the games I bought from them before have been fun.
This is why you don't jump on the hype-wagon. As far as we know there could be one weapon model for the entire game or tens of thousands.
We have only seen, what, four classes through what we have been shown, two of which have been announced? Does that mean this is all we are going to get? No, hardly anything has been release and people are tearing the game apart. Lets sit back, take a deep breath, un-wad our undies, and wait for some more info before wailing with the doom and gloom.
Well their own website is geared towards four classes pr. side. Look at the link in my post.
I know that, two have been officially announce (Trooper and Bounty Hunter), two are a given (Jedi and Sith), Smuggler based on the new video (speculation only) so now what? Anything beyond this is pure speculation and has little to no ground.
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You wouldn't understand
The game IS the NGE 2.0.
I don't know why people don't see that.
Its just a KOTOR game for each character class. With bad graphics. It won't be anything like the MMOs on the market today. Its just a KOTOR game, that will have extremely limited online features.
My opinion is that TOR will be more likely to be 'Guildwars in the Star Wars world', some of this is accurate with the OP's findings. However, the most pressing flaw or 'failure' in the OP's post is that most people do not want a pre-cu SWG clone, or any other type of sandbox game.
I will wait, and see what the game is like. If its Guildwars in space but well made, I will play it, if its a sandbox game(not likely) and well made, I will play it.
The fact is, it is way too early to satrt making ill-founded conclusions and proclaiming doom for a game that is nowhere near release.
My opinion is that TOR will be more likely to be 'Guildwars in the Star Wars world', some of this is accurate with the OP's findings. However, the most pressing flaw or 'failure' in the OP's post is that most people do not want a pre-cu SWG clone, or any other type of sandbox game.
I will wait, and see what the game is like. If its Guildwars in space but well made, I will play it, if its a sandbox game(not likely) and well made, I will play it.
The fact is, it is way too early to satrt making ill-founded conclusions and proclaiming doom for a game that is nowhere near release.
Hmm, you must have been one of the poor saps much like myself that was not gifted with a crystal ball at birth and has to rely on common sense . . .
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You wouldn't understand
And you know that how? How do you know how much online features it will have?
How about you shut up already and wait for the release and then judge? You hate people for hyping but you are the irrational one.