Sorry it just sounds to me that you want a MMO to be so time consuming and just like every other peice of junk out there. Why does Wow have so many users?? Simple they took an idea of a game that was based on the every day gamer and added a twist.. Wow is no diffrent then the games that you play for free but have to pay money for better gear/ and junk in game..
Takes you about a month to lvl from 1-80 takes you about another 3 months to fill in gear/skills ect,ect they know that you will hit 80 and spend countless hours raiding with 24 other dipsticks to prey the gear you want drops and if not oh well wait until it resets in 7 days.... This game sounds good to me so far no huge raids/ time consuming and time sinks....I am sure jedi will be a very played out quest chain with action packed twists followed by trials and game devs have posted on the fourms and taken the idea about a system SWG used to have Called FRS and hope they take it to heart and put a system like that in play.
As far as being upset that you play a game that has died from people just like you complaining about the game is not perfect so they changed it so bad everyone quit.... So why not go cry to SOE about SWG and see if they will fix that game instead of coming here crying about how much this game will fail..... SWG has everything you want anyways player houses/player cities space combat and crafting...so go play.
I keep feeling Guild War vibes coming off from this game, and it's frightening me but also soothing me. Guild wars was fun to a point of where it no longer had a point to progress. I do hope they add some social aspects to the game because from what I see on their info it's all out warfare and heroism, not that it isn't wanted or isn't cool, but social aspects to a game keep it thriving with more population. And if they want to consider this a MMORPG they need more than just driven storyline or else it will be a Guild Wars and won't keep players attached.
Bullet points don't make a game good or bad. Bullet points help you determine if the game has features that you may or may not lean towards as preferences. However, determining if the game will "FAIL" based on currently understood information is daft. Try not to take that personally, instead think of it as a jab to push you back so that you may reconsider your opinion may be misplaced.
Your opinion is no doubt colored by previous experiences, but I'm sure you understand that it's quite possible to have an entirely new experience. Perhaps this game, created by a well respected developer will offer you something new in the form of familiar features, yet done with more success.
Some interesting observations in this thread, I made so far:
1. Same people charge in to defend a game, who charged into AoC and attacked every voice of criticism before launch.
2. The misconception that one is not allowed to form opinions on a game not launched yet. Yet only the negative ones are being attacked personally. Why not attack the others in this thread who defends the game blindly then? It is the same thing really.
3. People hear what they want to hear. With all the evidence laid out they still rally around another level based, eight classes, linear mmo and not believing that this is the game they will get (when even Bioware says so).
4. The idea that the company behind lackluster games like KOTOR is suddenly "the" big company that can pull of magic tricks.
5. That you don't need to have a real-life simulator to have a sandbox. Nor does a sandbox have to be a sandbox any more than those that are not. Look at WoW it can be played both ways, but in fact one of my main gripes with the WoW style is that it isn't made so that casuals can really enjoy the end game. End game is very esoteric for hard core groups with no jobs or lives.
6. That many people can't see that story driven mmos as Bioware euphemistically calls it are opposite to the very nature of mmorpgs.
7. Many posters seem complacant and happy with a WoW clone. I am surprised not more people are fed up. Or maybe those that are fed up are all playing Darkfall right now.
8. Without space flight, all you have is the fantasy part of star wars and that essentially there is no difference between generic fantasy and star wars without the space. Force = magic. Sith = Orcs / Chaos. Jedi = paladins. Twi-leks = Elves. Lightsabers = magic swords.
Still SW is a great IP but why not have a tad bit more than a multiplayer game catering to the same crowd like all the other mmos?
9. The strong feeling that some serious viral-marketing is going on with in this forum! Even the AoC forums were not this one-sided. And that game actually had potential two years before launch.
10. That many posters lack coherent thought enough to counter arguments and resort to simple name-calling or trolling of other people's posts. Maybe I got my thoughts right about the demographic right?
11. That what posters here seem to want is just KOTOR or The Force Unleashed. Not an mmo!
Bullet points don't make a game good or bad. Bullet points help you determine if the game has features that you may or may not lean towards as preferences. However, determining if the game will "FAIL" based on currently understood information is daft. Try not to take that personally, instead think of it as a jab to push you back so that you may reconsider your opinion may be misplaced. Your opinion is no doubt colored by previous experiences, but I'm sure you understand that it's quite possible to have an entirely new experience. Perhaps this game, created by a well respected developer will offer you something new in the form of familiar features, yet done with more success.
I understand what you try to say, but really you are wrong. It is a matter of simple deduction and reading a bit between the lines. I need to have no crystal ball.
To this day there are some that claim that AoC was a huge succes. Numbers can be bent as much as you want. Sure the company broke even due to the high volume of box sales. Succes? No. You can't claim succes after pissing of so many players. You can't claim that just because your retention rate is a little higher the last two months, that it is a succes without taking into account that 80%+ players were driven off.
This is not a matter of semantics. Or rather it is, but I am not the sophist here. Game companies can blow out soo much smoke, but the loser is the gamer. MMO industry is pretty hard hit after so many failures. Will we survive? Sure. But it still makes it pretty sour to have your favorite gaming genre fucked up by short-sighted developers and gaming companies.
They all want the golden calf - the next holy (wow) grail. But they forget to add a holistic game to the proces. It takes more than just a 3d space with avatars that can fight, some fluff smeared on (even a good IP) and a couple of new features. Recent history shows that none of these mass-produced games really last. Not even a visually appealing gem like AoC could last. Gamers want something more. Look at the DROVES who left AoC due to endgame!
So no, I will stand by my "fail" comment. There is nothing here that does not spell fail for the average / mature gamer. For newbies this might hold a little interest or for zappers who just want to play for the free month. But beyond that a story-driven game with classes and little innovation will not last in this marketplace.
Look at Champions Online. They think they can make a shiny new CoH and then add important content like Villains later. It won't due in this marketplace. Or look at Jumpgate which is just a polish of old concept where you fly around in INSTANCED space in more than one sense. It will not do anymore.
The marketplace in the next three years will be so congested and saturated that all these games will drown each other. Some with a good IP and a good graphics dept. will break even on box sales and the first six months. But mmos are becoming more and more games that can not last. It is why so many are left unfinished. Not just because they run out of funds but because they aren't worth more in sales.
Some day, some brave little (or larger) developer will come out and make something outstanding, that doesn't just cater to one crowd but to all sorts of players. And if they can do it relatively smooth and polished they could have a huge game. Esp. if they do it in a new and modern way. The next WoW will not look like WoW, any more than the next Harry Potter will look like Harry Potter or the next Tolkien will look like Tolkien. It is in the nature of things.
I mean MMOs launch today without even having better server layouts, without intelligent design taking into account that server mergers might be necessary with the current mmo design 3 months after launch. Can you imagine that? That all companies launch thinking their game will grow and not that it will diminish with time. So they launch with little thought on how to merge servers (or even better make a system where you dont need to merge at all).. They all "lie" by dedicating server to Australia, making RP servers, pve, pvp, and many other types, because three to five months after launch they have to either merge them OR do what most do - let them whither and die and offer character transfers which is a stupid solution.
Just one final snippet on info:
SWG wasn't perfect. I never said it was. But they showed us that there are many ways to make an mmo and some concepts were simply brilliant.
Originally posted by Draccan Originally posted by apocalance Bullet points don't make a game good or bad. Bullet points help you determine if the game has features that you may or may not lean towards as preferences. However, determining if the game will "FAIL" based on currently understood information is daft. Try not to take that personally, instead think of it as a jab to push you back so that you may reconsider your opinion may be misplaced. Your opinion is no doubt colored by previous experiences, but I'm sure you understand that it's quite possible to have an entirely new experience. Perhaps this game, created by a well respected developer will offer you something new in the form of familiar features, yet done with more success.
I understand what you try to say, but really you are wrong. It is a matter of simple deduction and reading a bit between the lines. I need to have no crystal ball. To this day there are some that claim that AoC was a huge succes. Numbers can be bent as much as you want. Sure the company broke even due to the high volume of box sales. Succes? No. You can't claim succes after pissing of so many players. You can't claim that just because your retention rate is a little higher the last two months, that it is a succes without taking into account that 80%+ players were driven off. This is not a matter of semantics. Or rather it is, but I am not the sophist here. Game companies can blow out soo much smoke, but the loser is the gamer. MMO industry is pretty hard hit after so many failures. Will we survive? Sure. But it still makes it pretty sour to have your favorite gaming genre fucked up by short-sighted developers and gaming companies. They all want the golden calf - the next holy (wow) grail. But they forget to add a holistic game to the proces. It takes more than just a 3d space with avatars that can fight, some fluff smeared on (even a good IP) and a couple of new features. Recent history shows that none of these mass-produced games really last. Not even a visually appealing gem like AoC could last. Gamers want something more. Look at the DROVES who left AoC due to endgame! So no, I will stand by my "fail" comment. There is nothing here that does not spell fail for the average / mature gamer. For newbies this might hold a little interest or for zappers who just want to play for the free month. But beyond that a story-driven game with classes and little innovation will not last in this marketplace. Look at Champions Online. They think they can make a shiny new CoH and then add important content like Villains later. It won't due in this marketplace. Or look at Jumpgate which is just a polish of old concept where you fly around in INSTANCED space in more than one sense. It will not do anymore. The marketplace in the next three years will be so congested and saturated that all these games will drown each other. Some with a good IP and a good graphics dept. will break even on box sales and the first six months. But mmos are becoming more and more games that can not last. It is why so many are left unfinished. Not just because they run out of funds but because they aren't worth more in sales. Some day, some brave little (or larger) developer will come out and make something outstanding, that doesn't just cater to one crowd but to all sorts of players. And if they can do it relatively smooth and polished they could have a huge game. Esp. if they do it in a new and modern way. The next WoW will not look like WoW, any more than the next Harry Potter will look like Harry Potter or the next Tolkien will look like Tolkien. It is in the nature of things. I mean MMOs launch today without even having better server layouts, without intelligent design taking into account that server mergers might be necessary with the current mmo design 3 months after launch. Can you imagine that? That all companies launch thinking their game will grow and not that it will diminish with time. So they launch with little thought on how to merge servers (or even better make a system where you dont need to merge at all).. They all "lie" by dedicating server to Australia, making RP servers, pve, pvp, and many other types, because three to five months after launch they have to either merge them OR do what most do - let them whither and die and offer character transfers which is a stupid solution. Just one final snippet on info: SWG wasn't perfect. I never said it was. But they showed us that there are many ways to make an mmo and some concepts were simply brilliant.
Draccan,
Should an RPG not consist of a story? Do you limit RPG to role-playing (in character) and not to what the original RPG's were about, classes (roles) and stories? I for one enjoyed many nights playing various PnP games that were less about me being able to do whatever I wanted to do, and more about following a story the DM had designed. And it was fun! In those days, with those game systems, characters were usually class based. Some RPG's broke from that mold, but they were at the core, still story driven, but not necessarily class based nor did they have to be solely d20 either.
Thinking that MMORPG's should be any less and instead should simply be mini-quests with a world that our avatars can run around in and do as they wish, sort of an escape from real life, is pigeonholing into something that is more MMO and less RPG. I welcome a well thought out, and as recently announced, voice acted, story-driven MMORPG. However, I'm quite sure Bioware will not completely forsake the MMO in that category either. I fully expect to be able to gather with friends and do things that only groups can accomplish.
I enjoyed SWG for what it was pre-NGE, but even that, after a period of time, was boring. (Yes, I'm one of the many that left b/c of the NGE.) SWG was my first MMO and I still remember the great times I had playing it. But because I am able to follow a full story while leveling a character in a game instead of being forced to do mini-quests that may sometimes chain, doesn't mean I'm going to be forbidden from experiencing fun that was had in games that didn't offer story driven content.
I offer no historical evidence to prove that SW:TOR will succeed, but I also can't look at past games that have no bearing on this discussion as evidence that it will fail either. My hope for this game is that it will be entertaining and that it will attempt to force $15 from my bank on a monthly basis and that I will gladly part with the fee knowing that it is money well spent on something that is enthralling, entertaining, and all together enjoyable.
Hmm. Why do people push for a game to do badly? Really?
At no point do you want TOR to be good, you only mention bad things, you bring up no good points, except the CG movie. You are basically Reviewing a game that has not even gotten to beta, on things you are second guessing? There are a lot of MMOs I don't play, and a lot I won't play. I would be happy for them if they did well. But I would not go out of my way to post information about them that I have no idea about yet officially and slam the game for it.
This is Bioware. If you caught any of the actually invterview, and not the movie (Which you did not) You might have learned something. They said they planned on full voice acting. Full. Voice. Acting. And not like wow where every single male npc sounds exactly the same. They said unique voices for NPCs, and for the characters.
1. Players "stuck" in one class. Gosh. So many other great MMOs let you switch classes anytime you want. Wait no, they make you reroll? At least in this game, they say you will get a different story, and look at things from that classes point of view.
2. Players "stuck" in a faction. Hmm.. Is this to prevent people from switching sides to whoever is winning at the time? To make it more Star Wars like, where people on a side did not switch every day?
3. Space. I will agree here. Star Wars needs space. Even if we don't have ships at first. Space is a huge part of Star Wars.
4. Instances. So you think the game will have tiny instances all over, like AoC/LotRO. And like AoC only a certain # of people in an area before it spawns another of that same area for people? You must have some amazing connections to get that information that goes against what they said :.
5. Crafting I really do not know. I heard them say there will be crafting, upgrading your armor and weapons. But not much else outsideo f that. The whole point behind the game is it is your saga...I don't expect crafting to be super in depth like the lolbestgameever lol SWG was or EQ2, but I sure expect something more than WAR's terrible crafting system.
6. And still, most games out now do not have non combat classes. And yet they are much higher in subs than any game I can think of that might have non combat classes.
7. The game has been in devolpment for 3-4 years now. It is using the Hero engine that is supposed to cut down on time. They are not releasing in 09 for sure, but I can easily see mid/late 10. If it gets pushed to 11, so what? If the game is polished and fun to play, should they release it early so that people like yourself that cannot be happy can berate it for not being done?
8. Almost all gameplay is Linear in the way you approach that. You level up, be it your crafting professions or class, along the same lines as any other crafting/class. At least in this game, the story will be different between classes, and different decisions to make per class.
9. I cannot say if they will or won't have housing. It does not sound like they will yet. But I sure do get the feeling that you are in love with a certain type of game, and this is not that certain type of game.
10. The combat of Wow/EQ is perfectly fine as long as it is not setting up some queue of actions, or slow and clunky like WAR. If I hit a button, I want it to go off, so that I can slow/stop/hurt whatever the other is doing. You almost say this as if it is a bad thing.
11. That is up to each player to decide if they want to be a Jedi/Sith or not. Each class is going to be able to hold their own against another. And you will see plenty of those classes, as many people will play them, if only to kill Jedi/Sith.
12. I don't see this as dumbed down really like you are hoping. I see this as just about any other factional game. I think as the game matures, the PvP will get better and deeper. But I would not expect 20 Battlegrounds to fight on, with gear, titles, etc as soon as the game releases.
13. The Graphics are going to be good, but be similar to wows in that many more computers can run it. Most computers cannot handle AoC. AoC has, from what I have read, killed many computers lately. Or caused red boxes instead of graphics all over the world.
As I finish reading your conclusion, I can't help but notice you only want one thing. A sandbox game. Devoid of story, endgame, players, and all around fun. SWG was fun at first. But it was missing so many things, and they only made the game worse. Just because you enjoy a sandbox gameplay, does that really mean you should flame any game that is not, especially a Star Wars game?
There have been a number of games, where players were allowed to do what they want. There are a few being made. SWG is sill going. Darkfall is out. Mortal online is coming. You can do as you please in those games, and no one is stopping you.
This games sales will depend on a large number of things, but I think they can make it through without your support. Polish, fun factor, delivering on promises, graphics, gameplay will all be huge.
I wish you luck in finding a Sandbox game that you enjoy, since obviously SWG/DF are not something you like.
Some interesting observations in this thread, I made so far:
1. Same people charge in to defend a game, who charged into AoC and attacked every voice of criticism before launch. I'm assuming you are referring to people like me. I'll say here and now that, even knowing what I know now, I would have "charged" in in mostly the same way back then as I do now. Why? Because you are the person who is making assumptions that can't be validated and as such are simply out of place. 2. The misconception that one is not allowed to form opinions on a game not launched yet. Yet only the negative ones are being attacked personally. Why not attack the others in this thread who defends the game blindly then? It is the same thing really. I'm not attacking anyone actually. In fact, I was very much agreeing with you. This game will most likely not be for you. It will not cater to the people who want an open sandbox experience. It will not cater to the people who only enjoy games such as SWG pre-CU and the like. However, that does not make it a failure. And that's why people come here to "attack" you. because you seem to believe your version of an MMO is the only -right- one to make. 3. People hear what they want to hear. With all the evidence laid out they still rally around another level based, eight classes, linear mmo and not believing that this is the game they will get (when even Bioware says so). I hear what they say. I know it will be level-based. I know it will have classes. I know it will be heavy on story. I know it will have instances. I know it won't have super-in-depth crafting. However I don't know (yet) if it will be fun. I shall find that out for myself. The only thing I know is that I myself, enjoyed every BioWare game to date. 4. The idea that the company behind lackluster games like KOTOR is suddenly "the" big company that can pull of magic tricks. BioWare is not -suddenly- "the" big company. BioWare has been widely regarded as one of the best developers around. Even if you personally did not like KOTOR, the game was widely recognized as one of the best of its time. Just because you didn't like it, doesn't make it bad. Nor does your not liking the company behind the game, make the company bad. 5. That you don't need to have a real-life simulator to have a sandbox. Nor does a sandbox have to be a sandbox any more than those that are not. Look at WoW it can be played both ways, but in fact one of my main gripes with the WoW style is that it isn't made so that casuals can really enjoy the end game. End game is very esoteric for hard core groups with no jobs or lives. Sandbox is such a weakly defined term. Even the sandbox-fans themselves can't really define it consistantly. A lot of it is in the eye of the beholder. 6. That many people can't see that story driven mmos as Bioware euphemistically calls it are opposite to the very nature of mmorpgs. That is again, your opinion. You are entitled to it, but on the same side, I am entitled to mine and I am very much looking forward to having a story worth seeing/hearing in an MMO and enjoying said story together with my friends. 7. Many posters seem complacant and happy with a WoW clone. I am surprised not more people are fed up. Or maybe those that are fed up are all playing Darkfall right now. The WoW Clone argument. That is so goddamn old. WoW has not been cloned so far. All we have is a bunch of games that copied certain things from WoW who *leGasp* copied it from older games. 8. Without space flight, all you have is the fantasy part of star wars and that essentially there is no difference between generic fantasy and star wars without the space. Force = magic. Sith = Orcs / Chaos. Jedi = paladins. Twi-leks = Elves. Lightsabers = magic swords.
Still SW is a great IP but why not have a tad bit more than a multiplayer game catering to the same crowd like all the other mmos? If you think that way, maybe you are not that interested in the Star Wars setting? Seriously, your comparisons are pretty lackluster here. Twi'lek = elves? Anyway, if you don't think the lore behind Star Wars, particularly the one in the Old Republic is enough to fill a ground based game...then I guess you are not that interested in the lore. Not to mention you do not know how/if Space will be implemented. Don't give me the "it hasn't been announced yet, so it won't be in" card. You yourself say the game is still FAR away, so you beat out your own argument. 9. The strong feeling that some serious viral-marketing is going on with in this forum! Even the AoC forums were not this one-sided. And that game actually had potential two years before launch. Could be. Such is the way the market operates. On the other hand, it could also be that BioWare just has a good reputation. 10. That many posters lack coherent thought enough to counter arguments and resort to simple name-calling or trolling of other people's posts. Maybe I got my thoughts right about the demographic right? Your arguments can't be countered because most of them are elaborations on bullet-points taken from the game information. Elaborations you came up with anyway. How do you argue with someone who makes up conclusions about things he can't possibly know? Except telling him he can't possibly -know-? Besides, many of your points were -valid- to a degree. Only exaggarated in my opinion. 11. That what posters here seem to want is just KOTOR or The Force Unleashed. Not an mmo! Personally, I want a KOTOR MMO. And that's what I seem to be getting. So I am happily looking forward to seeing more of the game as it is being made. Will it be awesome? How the heck should I know? Will it be a failure? Again, how the heck should I know?
Having been burnt a few times after putting my trust in companies, I still fail to see how you can make such claims. I'm sorry, but condemning a game at this point in time, without solid evidence and just because the game does not cater to your particular needs is not exactly what I call -fair-.
Guys keep the thread on topic and cut out the personal attacks, I do not want to have to lock this thread. If you feel the need to attack a user take a step back, breathe, and ask yourself if it will be worth the infraction.
Thanks!
Since I started the thread, and since I am not flaming anyone, can you do me a favor and NOT close the thread. I would like my opinion heard without some excuse to close it down.
one thing i'd like to say..and it might have been said already said....
to the people that breath "WOW CLONE!!!!!!!!" shut the hell up!. thank you... I've play'd WoW, for around 2 years...so its not like "oh no he doesn't like game he is bias!"
But BEFORE I play'd wow I play'd a game that came out BEFORE WoW... it was called FFXI. here is a list for those who dont' know, of the jobs they had.
Bard = wow mage
Beastmaster = wow hunter
Black Mage = wow worlock
Blue Mage = wow hunter/mage
Corsair
Dancer
Dark Knight
Dragoon
Monk
Ninja
Paladin
Puppetmaster
Ranger
Red Mage
Samurai
Scholar
Summoner
Thief
Warrior
White Mage
and so and and so on.....look down the list. Now who is copying? HUH!?
Some interesting observations in this thread, I made so far:
1. Same people charge in to defend a game, who charged into AoC and attacked every voice of criticism before launch. I'm assuming you are referring to people like me. I'll say here and now that, even knowing what I know now, I would have "charged" in in mostly the same way back then as I do now. Why? Because you are the person who is making assumptions that can't be validated and as such are simply out of place. You contradict youserlf. You admit you were wrong, but would still derail other peoples right to express themselves? 2. The misconception that one is not allowed to form opinions on a game not launched yet. Yet only the negative ones are being attacked personally. Why not attack the others in this thread who defends the game blindly then? It is the same thing really. I'm not attacking anyone actually. In fact, I was very much agreeing with you. This game will most likely not be for you. It will not cater to the people who want an open sandbox experience. It will not cater to the people who only enjoy games such as SWG pre-CU and the like. However, that does not make it a failure. And that's why people come here to "attack" you. because you seem to believe your version of an MMO is the only -right- one to make. I never mentioned your name. 3. People hear what they want to hear. With all the evidence laid out they still rally around another level based, eight classes, linear mmo and not believing that this is the game they will get (when even Bioware says so). I hear what they say. I know it will be level-based. I know it will have classes. I know it will be heavy on story. I know it will have instances. I know it won't have super-in-depth crafting. However I don't know (yet) if it will be fun. I shall find that out for myself. The only thing I know is that I myself, enjoyed every BioWare game to date. I fail to see the relevance of other non mmo games even if made by Bioware. Didn't they surround themselves with new people, from WoW among others. It is much more relavant that the CEO says WoW was the holy grail. 4. The idea that the company behind lackluster games like KOTOR is suddenly "the" big company that can pull of magic tricks. BioWare is not -suddenly- "the" big company. BioWare has been widely regarded as one of the best developers around. Even if you personally did not like KOTOR, the game was widely recognized as one of the best of its time. Just because you didn't like it, doesn't make it bad. Nor does your not liking the company behind the game, make the company bad. I have no grudge against them. I just can't see that they are better than anyone else. I merely point out that there is this conception that they are infallible (I mean look at some of the comment here). 5. That you don't need to have a real-life simulator to have a sandbox. Nor does a sandbox have to be a sandbox any more than those that are not. Look at WoW it can be played both ways, but in fact one of my main gripes with the WoW style is that it isn't made so that casuals can really enjoy the end game. End game is very esoteric for hard core groups with no jobs or lives. Sandbox is such a weakly defined term. Even the sandbox-fans themselves can't really define it consistantly. A lot of it is in the eye of the beholder. I think I am very clear in my posts in this thread and otherwhere. In no way do I talk about simulations. People tend to think that just because a game is not linear and just because it contains a multitude of things to do (like crafting) that then it is a simulator.
So all games not created as linear combat-focused games are simulations!??!?
6. That many people can't see that story driven mmos as Bioware euphemistically calls it are opposite to the very nature of mmorpgs. That is again, your opinion. You are entitled to it, but on the same side, I am entitled to mine and I am very much looking forward to having a story worth seeing/hearing in an MMO and enjoying said story together with my friends. Don't take it wrong, but what you and I think is not important. Fact is that releasing all these pseudo mmos is watering down a genre and game companies are bleeding themselves and the playerbase. The rise in negativity on the internet over these games is just huge. 7. Many posters seem complacant and happy with a WoW clone. I am surprised not more people are fed up. Or maybe those that are fed up are all playing Darkfall right now. The WoW Clone argument. That is so goddamn old. WoW has not been cloned so far. All we have is a bunch of games that copied certain things from WoW who *leGasp* copied it from older games. Again, Bioware's CEO says WoW is the end all mmo that he aspire to. All the released features hints at a vanilla level-based, class-system. Just wait for the raids and all. Linear too. Who cares who else did similar stuff before WoW. It is WoW they themselves compare against. 8. Without space flight, all you have is the fantasy part of star wars and that essentially there is no difference between generic fantasy and star wars without the space. Force = magic. Sith = Orcs / Chaos. Jedi = paladins. Twi-leks = Elves. Lightsabers = magic swords.
Still SW is a great IP but why not have a tad bit more than a multiplayer game catering to the same crowd like all the other mmos? If you think that way, maybe you are not that interested in the Star Wars setting? Seriously, your comparisons are pretty lackluster here. Twi'lek = elves? Anyway, if you don't think the lore behind Star Wars, particularly the one in the Old Republic is enough to fill a ground based game...then I guess you are not that interested in the lore. Not to mention you do not know how/if Space will be implemented. Don't give me the "it hasn't been announced yet, so it won't be in" card. You yourself say the game is still FAR away, so you beat out your own argument. What a mix of contrary opinions. Main thing is, there won't be space. You don't believe yourself. And yes, it hasn't been announced and it will not come at launch. It is such a huge selling point, they would have announced it a long time ago. 9. The strong feeling that some serious viral-marketing is going on with in this forum! Even the AoC forums were not this one-sided. And that game actually had potential two years before launch. Could be. Such is the way the market operates. On the other hand, it could also be that BioWare just has a good reputation. Fans of a game has learned a long time ago that they can just troll a thread to derail it and then wait for a lock. Other than that, yes viral-marketing is unfortunately allowed. 10. That many posters lack coherent thought enough to counter arguments and resort to simple name-calling or trolling of other people's posts. Maybe I got my thoughts right about the demographic right? Your arguments can't be countered because most of them are elaborations on bullet-points taken from the game information. Elaborations you came up with anyway. How do you argue with someone who makes up conclusions about things he can't possibly know? Except telling him he can't possibly -know-? Besides, many of your points were -valid- to a degree. Only exaggarated in my opinion. Of course they can be discussed, countered, commented on. Name-calling is no excuse. 11. That what posters here seem to want is just KOTOR or The Force Unleashed. Not an mmo! Personally, I want a KOTOR MMO. And that's what I seem to be getting. So I am happily looking forward to seeing more of the game as it is being made. Will it be awesome? How the heck should I know? Will it be a failure? Again, how the heck should I know? If by KOTOR mmo you mean a singleplayer game with some online features, that is indeed what you seem to get. Just like AoC is debatable hardly a mmo.
Having been burnt a few times after putting my trust in companies, I still fail to see how you can make such claims. I'm sorry, but condemning a game at this point in time, without solid evidence and just because the game does not cater to your particular needs is not exactly what I call -fair-.
Neither is your constant charging into games defending them at all cost and moving onto the next one. Didn't you also do it with WAR after AoC?
Guys keep the thread on topic and cut out the personal attacks, I do not want to have to lock this thread. If you feel the need to attack a user take a step back, breathe, and ask yourself if it will be worth the infraction.
Thanks!
Since I started the thread, and since I am not flaming anyone, can you do me a favor and NOT close the thread. I would like my opinion heard without some excuse to close it down.
Guys keep the thread on topic and cut out the personal attacks, I do not want to have to lock this thread. If you feel the need to attack a user take a step back, breathe, and ask yourself if it will be worth the infraction.
Thanks!
Since I started the thread, and since I am not flaming anyone, can you do me a favor and NOT close the thread. I would like my opinion heard without some excuse to close it down.
Thanks!
This was a warning to everyone, not just you.
I understood that, MikeB but I since I started the thread and since I am not the one doing the name-calling, I fail to see why others should allow to hit and run flame a thread they don't like and get it closed.
I have seen this tactic many times on mmorpg.com and it seems a little constructed to me...
Sadly the OP might be right. What we've seen so far isn't really all that impressive in the way of the game itself. It seems there will not be much variety in weapons for like the Trooper class - beyond color schemes. Armor seems a variation of the same. The fact that there seems to be no space combat (ship-to-ship) is sad. I dunno. I will wait and see what they show us on Wednesday...but to be honest I do not think it will be all that impressive. God I hope I am wrong.
God knows I am a hobby ranter myself. Who knows my posting history will know.
BUT: rant when a game is THERE. Rant about stuff when a game is launched. Ranting now about what might be, and how that might play... sorry thats just pointless, esp. since we know SO little about the game atm. And besides... it has the feeling of a spoilsport. There are times to rant and to doubt. But when such an awesome trailer comes... why not just enjoy the moment for now, and postpone rants to later, ja ne? ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Having been burnt a few times after putting my trust in companies, I still fail to see how you can make such claims. I'm sorry, but condemning a game at this point in time, without solid evidence and just because the game does not cater to your particular needs is not exactly what I call -fair-. Neither is your constant charging into games defending them at all cost and moving onto the next one. Didn't you also do it with WAR after AoC?
Cheers.
Nope, never "charged" to WAR's rescue. Then again, I possibly would have if there had been that many people claiming it to be a failure before they could know.
And no, I am not contradicting myself with what I said in reply to your first point. What I find appalling is if someone predicts outcomes he can't know yet. You couldn't have known the outcome of AoC when you first started dooming it, nor can you know if your prediction about the failure of this particular game will come true either.
It's your opinion and yes, you are entitled to share it. Just as I am entitled to come in here and tell you that it is just that, an opinion. Your thread-title however suggests that you are stating facts. When in fact, you are not, if only in regards to the "failure".
Anyway, as I said, your opinion is just as valid as anyone elses at this point, particularly since we know next to nothing of how the game will play. Tomorrow we'll possibly have a slightly better idea.
I'm not going to go into all the other points right now, since it is a little late here and I do need my sleep. Getting old and all that. XD
To OP- So don't play the game. You didn't like KOTOR so I don't know why you'd even be following this games development.
Calling it fail just because it doesn't cater to your tastes is a self-centered thing to do.
I think it is pretty clear it is not about my personal taste, but about business practices of mmo developers...
I'm curious about what business practices you're railing against. Having more than a few hundred thousand subscribers?
I'd love a good 'ol fashion sandbox MMO as much as the next guy whose been addicted to the genre since the '90s; but I can also enjoy new releases like WoW. I agree the genre feels less "massively" these days, but you take it or leave it. The MMO market is a democracy, your vote is your dollar.
one thing i'd like to say..and it might have been said already said....
to the people that breath "WOW CLONE!!!!!!!!" shut the hell up!. thank you... I've play'd WoW, for around 2 years...so its not like "oh no he doesn't like game he is bias!"
But BEFORE I play'd wow I play'd a game that came out BEFORE WoW... it was called FFXI. here is a list for those who dont' know, of the jobs they had.
Bard = wow mage
Beastmaster = wow hunter
Black Mage = wow worlock
Blue Mage = wow hunter/mage
Corsair
Dancer
Dark Knight
Dragoon
Monk
Ninja
Paladin
Puppetmaster
Ranger
Red Mage
Samurai
Scholar
Summoner
Thief
Warrior
White Mage and so and and so on.....look down the list. Now who is copying? HUH!? (And btw FFXI came out in 03, WoW came out 04)
Wow started its development many years before that, It might have taken some things from FFXI but most stuff is from Everquest. And don't tell me that FFXI didn't borrowed content from EQ...
Of course EQ borrowed stuff from a game I played called Meridian 59, all game devs borrow from older games. But Wow clone ia usually wrong since most of the stuff was invented in EQ and not Wow, most players are just too young to remember that.
If TOR is cloning something it is cloning KOTOR anyways which is a evolution of the Baldurs gate 1 & 2 and Neverwinter nights games, the difference is that they made it massive.
Guys keep the thread on topic and cut out the personal attacks, I do not want to have to lock this thread. If you feel the need to attack a user take a step back, breathe, and ask yourself if it will be worth the infraction.
Thanks!
Since I started the thread, and since I am not flaming anyone, can you do me a favor and NOT close the thread. I would like my opinion heard without some excuse to close it down.
Thanks!
yeah it sucks when you have to fear that your voice will be silenced for making too much sense to people who don't want to hear it
some people will kill you before they accept the truth (or what they know is truth but are afraid to admit it to themselves).
not saying what you're saying is truth, just the probable (but even then people want to believe its certain they're right and aren't willing to listen to reason)
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
think it is fairly obvious by now that if one tries to see SW:TOR in the light of PRE-CU SWG, ST:TOR will be a failure.
The catch tho is that ST:TOR isn't supposed to be PRE-CU SWG. The idea that it would was generated only in and by the mind of the so called "Vets"- a classe where to a point i belong also since played That kind of swg.
Yet is it a group that I am ashamed to be connected with , since it promotes in a rampart way the dogma that any game has to be similar to pre-cu swg or follow the sandbox concept to be good.
Many of the things the OP claim are/will be true. Some are already obvious, others can be projected in the future by anyone with a working brain.
Oh good god Draccan, calm down. And stop trolling while you're at it. Just because the game isn't catering to the lowest common denominator of gamer doesn't mean its going to fail. Enough of the doom crap. If you don't think the game will be good, then don't bother coming here. But considering that we know next to nothing, patience would be a good thing so you don't look like a troll.
Comments
Sorry it just sounds to me that you want a MMO to be so time consuming and just like every other peice of junk out there. Why does Wow have so many users?? Simple they took an idea of a game that was based on the every day gamer and added a twist.. Wow is no diffrent then the games that you play for free but have to pay money for better gear/ and junk in game..
Takes you about a month to lvl from 1-80 takes you about another 3 months to fill in gear/skills ect,ect they know that you will hit 80 and spend countless hours raiding with 24 other dipsticks to prey the gear you want drops and if not oh well wait until it resets in 7 days.... This game sounds good to me so far no huge raids/ time consuming and time sinks....I am sure jedi will be a very played out quest chain with action packed twists followed by trials and game devs have posted on the fourms and taken the idea about a system SWG used to have Called FRS and hope they take it to heart and put a system like that in play.
As far as being upset that you play a game that has died from people just like you complaining about the game is not perfect so they changed it so bad everyone quit.... So why not go cry to SOE about SWG and see if they will fix that game instead of coming here crying about how much this game will fail..... SWG has everything you want anyways player houses/player cities space combat and crafting...so go play.
I keep feeling Guild War vibes coming off from this game, and it's frightening me but also soothing me. Guild wars was fun to a point of where it no longer had a point to progress. I do hope they add some social aspects to the game because from what I see on their info it's all out warfare and heroism, not that it isn't wanted or isn't cool, but social aspects to a game keep it thriving with more population. And if they want to consider this a MMORPG they need more than just driven storyline or else it will be a Guild Wars and won't keep players attached.
TwitchTV: iNeoki
Bullet points don't make a game good or bad. Bullet points help you determine if the game has features that you may or may not lean towards as preferences. However, determining if the game will "FAIL" based on currently understood information is daft. Try not to take that personally, instead think of it as a jab to push you back so that you may reconsider your opinion may be misplaced.
Your opinion is no doubt colored by previous experiences, but I'm sure you understand that it's quite possible to have an entirely new experience. Perhaps this game, created by a well respected developer will offer you something new in the form of familiar features, yet done with more success.
so...
Some interesting observations in this thread, I made so far:
1. Same people charge in to defend a game, who charged into AoC and attacked every voice of criticism before launch.
2. The misconception that one is not allowed to form opinions on a game not launched yet. Yet only the negative ones are being attacked personally. Why not attack the others in this thread who defends the game blindly then? It is the same thing really.
3. People hear what they want to hear. With all the evidence laid out they still rally around another level based, eight classes, linear mmo and not believing that this is the game they will get (when even Bioware says so).
4. The idea that the company behind lackluster games like KOTOR is suddenly "the" big company that can pull of magic tricks.
5. That you don't need to have a real-life simulator to have a sandbox. Nor does a sandbox have to be a sandbox any more than those that are not. Look at WoW it can be played both ways, but in fact one of my main gripes with the WoW style is that it isn't made so that casuals can really enjoy the end game. End game is very esoteric for hard core groups with no jobs or lives.
6. That many people can't see that story driven mmos as Bioware euphemistically calls it are opposite to the very nature of mmorpgs.
7. Many posters seem complacant and happy with a WoW clone. I am surprised not more people are fed up. Or maybe those that are fed up are all playing Darkfall right now.
8. Without space flight, all you have is the fantasy part of star wars and that essentially there is no difference between generic fantasy and star wars without the space. Force = magic. Sith = Orcs / Chaos. Jedi = paladins. Twi-leks = Elves. Lightsabers = magic swords.
Still SW is a great IP but why not have a tad bit more than a multiplayer game catering to the same crowd like all the other mmos?
9. The strong feeling that some serious viral-marketing is going on with in this forum! Even the AoC forums were not this one-sided. And that game actually had potential two years before launch.
10. That many posters lack coherent thought enough to counter arguments and resort to simple name-calling or trolling of other people's posts. Maybe I got my thoughts right about the demographic right?
11. That what posters here seem to want is just KOTOR or The Force Unleashed. Not an mmo!
____________________________
CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
____________________________
Yet another doom and gloom thread b4 the game is out.....
epic fail
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR.
Playing EVE Online and AOC.
Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD
I understand what you try to say, but really you are wrong. It is a matter of simple deduction and reading a bit between the lines. I need to have no crystal ball.
To this day there are some that claim that AoC was a huge succes. Numbers can be bent as much as you want. Sure the company broke even due to the high volume of box sales. Succes? No. You can't claim succes after pissing of so many players. You can't claim that just because your retention rate is a little higher the last two months, that it is a succes without taking into account that 80%+ players were driven off.
This is not a matter of semantics. Or rather it is, but I am not the sophist here. Game companies can blow out soo much smoke, but the loser is the gamer. MMO industry is pretty hard hit after so many failures. Will we survive? Sure. But it still makes it pretty sour to have your favorite gaming genre fucked up by short-sighted developers and gaming companies.
They all want the golden calf - the next holy (wow) grail. But they forget to add a holistic game to the proces. It takes more than just a 3d space with avatars that can fight, some fluff smeared on (even a good IP) and a couple of new features. Recent history shows that none of these mass-produced games really last. Not even a visually appealing gem like AoC could last. Gamers want something more. Look at the DROVES who left AoC due to endgame!
So no, I will stand by my "fail" comment. There is nothing here that does not spell fail for the average / mature gamer. For newbies this might hold a little interest or for zappers who just want to play for the free month. But beyond that a story-driven game with classes and little innovation will not last in this marketplace.
Look at Champions Online. They think they can make a shiny new CoH and then add important content like Villains later. It won't due in this marketplace. Or look at Jumpgate which is just a polish of old concept where you fly around in INSTANCED space in more than one sense. It will not do anymore.
The marketplace in the next three years will be so congested and saturated that all these games will drown each other. Some with a good IP and a good graphics dept. will break even on box sales and the first six months. But mmos are becoming more and more games that can not last. It is why so many are left unfinished. Not just because they run out of funds but because they aren't worth more in sales.
Some day, some brave little (or larger) developer will come out and make something outstanding, that doesn't just cater to one crowd but to all sorts of players. And if they can do it relatively smooth and polished they could have a huge game. Esp. if they do it in a new and modern way. The next WoW will not look like WoW, any more than the next Harry Potter will look like Harry Potter or the next Tolkien will look like Tolkien. It is in the nature of things.
I mean MMOs launch today without even having better server layouts, without intelligent design taking into account that server mergers might be necessary with the current mmo design 3 months after launch. Can you imagine that? That all companies launch thinking their game will grow and not that it will diminish with time. So they launch with little thought on how to merge servers (or even better make a system where you dont need to merge at all).. They all "lie" by dedicating server to Australia, making RP servers, pve, pvp, and many other types, because three to five months after launch they have to either merge them OR do what most do - let them whither and die and offer character transfers which is a stupid solution.
Just one final snippet on info:
SWG wasn't perfect. I never said it was. But they showed us that there are many ways to make an mmo and some concepts were simply brilliant.
____________________________
CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
____________________________
I understand what you try to say, but really you are wrong. It is a matter of simple deduction and reading a bit between the lines. I need to have no crystal ball.
To this day there are some that claim that AoC was a huge succes. Numbers can be bent as much as you want. Sure the company broke even due to the high volume of box sales. Succes? No. You can't claim succes after pissing of so many players. You can't claim that just because your retention rate is a little higher the last two months, that it is a succes without taking into account that 80%+ players were driven off.
This is not a matter of semantics. Or rather it is, but I am not the sophist here. Game companies can blow out soo much smoke, but the loser is the gamer. MMO industry is pretty hard hit after so many failures. Will we survive? Sure. But it still makes it pretty sour to have your favorite gaming genre fucked up by short-sighted developers and gaming companies.
They all want the golden calf - the next holy (wow) grail. But they forget to add a holistic game to the proces. It takes more than just a 3d space with avatars that can fight, some fluff smeared on (even a good IP) and a couple of new features. Recent history shows that none of these mass-produced games really last. Not even a visually appealing gem like AoC could last. Gamers want something more. Look at the DROVES who left AoC due to endgame!
So no, I will stand by my "fail" comment. There is nothing here that does not spell fail for the average / mature gamer. For newbies this might hold a little interest or for zappers who just want to play for the free month. But beyond that a story-driven game with classes and little innovation will not last in this marketplace.
Look at Champions Online. They think they can make a shiny new CoH and then add important content like Villains later. It won't due in this marketplace. Or look at Jumpgate which is just a polish of old concept where you fly around in INSTANCED space in more than one sense. It will not do anymore.
The marketplace in the next three years will be so congested and saturated that all these games will drown each other. Some with a good IP and a good graphics dept. will break even on box sales and the first six months. But mmos are becoming more and more games that can not last. It is why so many are left unfinished. Not just because they run out of funds but because they aren't worth more in sales.
Some day, some brave little (or larger) developer will come out and make something outstanding, that doesn't just cater to one crowd but to all sorts of players. And if they can do it relatively smooth and polished they could have a huge game. Esp. if they do it in a new and modern way. The next WoW will not look like WoW, any more than the next Harry Potter will look like Harry Potter or the next Tolkien will look like Tolkien. It is in the nature of things.
I mean MMOs launch today without even having better server layouts, without intelligent design taking into account that server mergers might be necessary with the current mmo design 3 months after launch. Can you imagine that? That all companies launch thinking their game will grow and not that it will diminish with time. So they launch with little thought on how to merge servers (or even better make a system where you dont need to merge at all).. They all "lie" by dedicating server to Australia, making RP servers, pve, pvp, and many other types, because three to five months after launch they have to either merge them OR do what most do - let them whither and die and offer character transfers which is a stupid solution.
Just one final snippet on info:
SWG wasn't perfect. I never said it was. But they showed us that there are many ways to make an mmo and some concepts were simply brilliant.
Draccan,
Should an RPG not consist of a story? Do you limit RPG to role-playing (in character) and not to what the original RPG's were about, classes (roles) and stories? I for one enjoyed many nights playing various PnP games that were less about me being able to do whatever I wanted to do, and more about following a story the DM had designed. And it was fun! In those days, with those game systems, characters were usually class based. Some RPG's broke from that mold, but they were at the core, still story driven, but not necessarily class based nor did they have to be solely d20 either.
Thinking that MMORPG's should be any less and instead should simply be mini-quests with a world that our avatars can run around in and do as they wish, sort of an escape from real life, is pigeonholing into something that is more MMO and less RPG. I welcome a well thought out, and as recently announced, voice acted, story-driven MMORPG. However, I'm quite sure Bioware will not completely forsake the MMO in that category either. I fully expect to be able to gather with friends and do things that only groups can accomplish.
I enjoyed SWG for what it was pre-NGE, but even that, after a period of time, was boring. (Yes, I'm one of the many that left b/c of the NGE.) SWG was my first MMO and I still remember the great times I had playing it. But because I am able to follow a full story while leveling a character in a game instead of being forced to do mini-quests that may sometimes chain, doesn't mean I'm going to be forbidden from experiencing fun that was had in games that didn't offer story driven content.
I offer no historical evidence to prove that SW:TOR will succeed, but I also can't look at past games that have no bearing on this discussion as evidence that it will fail either. My hope for this game is that it will be entertaining and that it will attempt to force $15 from my bank on a monthly basis and that I will gladly part with the fee knowing that it is money well spent on something that is enthralling, entertaining, and all together enjoyable.
so...
Hmm. Why do people push for a game to do badly? Really?
At no point do you want TOR to be good, you only mention bad things, you bring up no good points, except the CG movie. You are basically Reviewing a game that has not even gotten to beta, on things you are second guessing? There are a lot of MMOs I don't play, and a lot I won't play. I would be happy for them if they did well. But I would not go out of my way to post information about them that I have no idea about yet officially and slam the game for it.
This is Bioware. If you caught any of the actually invterview, and not the movie (Which you did not) You might have learned something. They said they planned on full voice acting. Full. Voice. Acting. And not like wow where every single male npc sounds exactly the same. They said unique voices for NPCs, and for the characters.
1. Players "stuck" in one class. Gosh. So many other great MMOs let you switch classes anytime you want. Wait no, they make you reroll? At least in this game, they say you will get a different story, and look at things from that classes point of view.
2. Players "stuck" in a faction. Hmm.. Is this to prevent people from switching sides to whoever is winning at the time? To make it more Star Wars like, where people on a side did not switch every day?
3. Space. I will agree here. Star Wars needs space. Even if we don't have ships at first. Space is a huge part of Star Wars.
4. Instances. So you think the game will have tiny instances all over, like AoC/LotRO. And like AoC only a certain # of people in an area before it spawns another of that same area for people? You must have some amazing connections to get that information that goes against what they said :.
5. Crafting I really do not know. I heard them say there will be crafting, upgrading your armor and weapons. But not much else outsideo f that. The whole point behind the game is it is your saga...I don't expect crafting to be super in depth like the lolbestgameever lol SWG was or EQ2, but I sure expect something more than WAR's terrible crafting system.
6. And still, most games out now do not have non combat classes. And yet they are much higher in subs than any game I can think of that might have non combat classes.
7. The game has been in devolpment for 3-4 years now. It is using the Hero engine that is supposed to cut down on time. They are not releasing in 09 for sure, but I can easily see mid/late 10. If it gets pushed to 11, so what? If the game is polished and fun to play, should they release it early so that people like yourself that cannot be happy can berate it for not being done?
8. Almost all gameplay is Linear in the way you approach that. You level up, be it your crafting professions or class, along the same lines as any other crafting/class. At least in this game, the story will be different between classes, and different decisions to make per class.
9. I cannot say if they will or won't have housing. It does not sound like they will yet. But I sure do get the feeling that you are in love with a certain type of game, and this is not that certain type of game.
10. The combat of Wow/EQ is perfectly fine as long as it is not setting up some queue of actions, or slow and clunky like WAR. If I hit a button, I want it to go off, so that I can slow/stop/hurt whatever the other is doing. You almost say this as if it is a bad thing.
11. That is up to each player to decide if they want to be a Jedi/Sith or not. Each class is going to be able to hold their own against another. And you will see plenty of those classes, as many people will play them, if only to kill Jedi/Sith.
12. I don't see this as dumbed down really like you are hoping. I see this as just about any other factional game. I think as the game matures, the PvP will get better and deeper. But I would not expect 20 Battlegrounds to fight on, with gear, titles, etc as soon as the game releases.
13. The Graphics are going to be good, but be similar to wows in that many more computers can run it. Most computers cannot handle AoC. AoC has, from what I have read, killed many computers lately. Or caused red boxes instead of graphics all over the world.
As I finish reading your conclusion, I can't help but notice you only want one thing. A sandbox game. Devoid of story, endgame, players, and all around fun. SWG was fun at first. But it was missing so many things, and they only made the game worse. Just because you enjoy a sandbox gameplay, does that really mean you should flame any game that is not, especially a Star Wars game?
There have been a number of games, where players were allowed to do what they want. There are a few being made. SWG is sill going. Darkfall is out. Mortal online is coming. You can do as you please in those games, and no one is stopping you.
This games sales will depend on a large number of things, but I think they can make it through without your support. Polish, fun factor, delivering on promises, graphics, gameplay will all be huge.
I wish you luck in finding a Sandbox game that you enjoy, since obviously SWG/DF are not something you like.
Guys keep the thread on topic and cut out the personal attacks, I do not want to have to lock this thread.
If you feel the need to attack a user take a step back, breathe, and ask yourself if it will be worth the infraction.
Thanks!
Having been burnt a few times after putting my trust in companies, I still fail to see how you can make such claims. I'm sorry, but condemning a game at this point in time, without solid evidence and just because the game does not cater to your particular needs is not exactly what I call -fair-.
Cheers.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Since I started the thread, and since I am not flaming anyone, can you do me a favor and NOT close the thread. I would like my opinion heard without some excuse to close it down.
Thanks!
____________________________
CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
____________________________
one thing i'd like to say..and it might have been said already said....
to the people that breath "WOW CLONE!!!!!!!!" shut the hell up!. thank you... I've play'd WoW, for around 2 years...so its not like "oh no he doesn't like game he is bias!"
But BEFORE I play'd wow I play'd a game that came out BEFORE WoW... it was called FFXI. here is a list for those who dont' know, of the jobs they had.
Bard = wow mage
Beastmaster = wow hunter
Black Mage = wow worlock
Blue Mage = wow hunter/mage
Corsair
Dancer
Dark Knight
Dragoon
Monk
Ninja
Paladin
Puppetmaster
Ranger
Red Mage
Samurai
Scholar
Summoner
Thief
Warrior
White Mage
and so and and so on.....look down the list. Now who is copying? HUH!?
(And btw FFXI came out in 03, WoW came out 04)
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/user/BettyofDewm/videos
Having been burnt a few times after putting my trust in companies, I still fail to see how you can make such claims. I'm sorry, but condemning a game at this point in time, without solid evidence and just because the game does not cater to your particular needs is not exactly what I call -fair-.
Neither is your constant charging into games defending them at all cost and moving onto the next one. Didn't you also do it with WAR after AoC?
Cheers.
____________________________
CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
____________________________
You missed the boat
____________________________
CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
____________________________
Since I started the thread, and since I am not flaming anyone, can you do me a favor and NOT close the thread. I would like my opinion heard without some excuse to close it down.
Thanks!
This was a warning to everyone, not just you.
Since I started the thread, and since I am not flaming anyone, can you do me a favor and NOT close the thread. I would like my opinion heard without some excuse to close it down.
Thanks!
This was a warning to everyone, not just you.
I understood that, MikeB but I since I started the thread and since I am not the one doing the name-calling, I fail to see why others should allow to hit and run flame a thread they don't like and get it closed.
I have seen this tactic many times on mmorpg.com and it seems a little constructed to me...
____________________________
CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
____________________________
To OP- So don't play the game. You didn't like KOTOR so I don't know why you'd even be following this games development.
Calling it fail just because it doesn't cater to your tastes is a self-centered thing to do.
God knows I am a hobby ranter myself. Who knows my posting history will know.
BUT: rant when a game is THERE. Rant about stuff when a game is launched. Ranting now about what might be, and how that might play... sorry thats just pointless, esp. since we know SO little about the game atm. And besides... it has the feeling of a spoilsport. There are times to rant and to doubt. But when such an awesome trailer comes... why not just enjoy the moment for now, and postpone rants to later, ja ne? ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I think it is pretty clear it is not about my personal taste, but about business practices of mmo developers...
____________________________
CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
____________________________
Nope, never "charged" to WAR's rescue. Then again, I possibly would have if there had been that many people claiming it to be a failure before they could know.
And no, I am not contradicting myself with what I said in reply to your first point. What I find appalling is if someone predicts outcomes he can't know yet. You couldn't have known the outcome of AoC when you first started dooming it, nor can you know if your prediction about the failure of this particular game will come true either.
It's your opinion and yes, you are entitled to share it. Just as I am entitled to come in here and tell you that it is just that, an opinion. Your thread-title however suggests that you are stating facts. When in fact, you are not, if only in regards to the "failure".
Anyway, as I said, your opinion is just as valid as anyone elses at this point, particularly since we know next to nothing of how the game will play. Tomorrow we'll possibly have a slightly better idea.
I'm not going to go into all the other points right now, since it is a little late here and I do need my sleep. Getting old and all that. XD
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I think it is pretty clear it is not about my personal taste, but about business practices of mmo developers...
I'm curious about what business practices you're railing against. Having more than a few hundred thousand subscribers?
I'd love a good 'ol fashion sandbox MMO as much as the next guy whose been addicted to the genre since the '90s; but I can also enjoy new releases like WoW. I agree the genre feels less "massively" these days, but you take it or leave it. The MMO market is a democracy, your vote is your dollar.
Wow started its development many years before that, It might have taken some things from FFXI but most stuff is from Everquest. And don't tell me that FFXI didn't borrowed content from EQ...
Of course EQ borrowed stuff from a game I played called Meridian 59, all game devs borrow from older games. But Wow clone ia usually wrong since most of the stuff was invented in EQ and not Wow, most players are just too young to remember that.
If TOR is cloning something it is cloning KOTOR anyways which is a evolution of the Baldurs gate 1 & 2 and Neverwinter nights games, the difference is that they made it massive.
Since I started the thread, and since I am not flaming anyone, can you do me a favor and NOT close the thread. I would like my opinion heard without some excuse to close it down.
Thanks!
yeah it sucks when you have to fear that your voice will be silenced for making too much sense to people who don't want to hear it
some people will kill you before they accept the truth (or what they know is truth but are afraid to admit it to themselves).
not saying what you're saying is truth, just the probable (but even then people want to believe its certain they're right and aren't willing to listen to reason)
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
think it is fairly obvious by now that if one tries to see SW:TOR in the light of PRE-CU SWG, ST:TOR will be a failure.
The catch tho is that ST:TOR isn't supposed to be PRE-CU SWG. The idea that it would was generated only in and by the mind of the so called "Vets"- a classe where to a point i belong also since played That kind of swg.
Yet is it a group that I am ashamed to be connected with , since it promotes in a rampart way the dogma that any game has to be similar to pre-cu swg or follow the sandbox concept to be good.
Many of the things the OP claim are/will be true. Some are already obvious, others can be projected in the future by anyone with a working brain.
Oh good god Draccan, calm down. And stop trolling while you're at it. Just because the game isn't catering to the lowest common denominator of gamer doesn't mean its going to fail. Enough of the doom crap. If you don't think the game will be good, then don't bother coming here. But considering that we know next to nothing, patience would be a good thing so you don't look like a troll.