The way Champions and SOE is having box+ monthly sub+ microtransactions is just greedy and I will never support anything like that. The DDO model looks really interesting IMO and makes paying much more flexible since I can choose to buy what I want when I want it.
The DDO model sounds almost identical to Wizard's 101. My daughter plays it and when she advances enough to enter a new area, I buy it. It's actually not a bad system.
It seems to me there's three rough categories of player, those who don't care about getting to max level and those that care a lot, with those who care a lot split into those who want to get to max level for the PvP and those who just seem to really hate other players being higher level than them. Making the XP fast early on and then slowing it down to get people to pay real money for XP potions seems deliberately designed to exploit that mentality.
If someone is desperate to get to the max level faster then it would be a lot simpler if the item shop just sold them a max level character and have done with it. However I think both the latter groups would be much happier with games designed around what they want i.e games that are PvP from the start or which have no levels and everyone is the same from the beginning.
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Creating a good game and then selling it in segments is a bit like selling expansions.
And absolutely NO REASON to abandon a game because of it.
hmm...I think I will quit any damn game anytime I want because of any REASON I decide; and then to end your argument by insulting anyone who doesnt agree with you...quite frankly shows your maturity level.
To the point though...If I can pay a monthly sub and get everything in game then thats the game I will play...no matter how long it takes me to get content...I enjoy the game and have no problem earning my rewards...I have no desire or need to play a game with MT...its not my style and yes I think it ends up corrupting games (thats just my OWN opinion) does that make me a redneck? no more than me living in the deepsouth does...just means I wont play your game
There is no legitimate reason for people to hate Microtransactions, as long as they aren't forced, don't unbalance competition (which in Champions Online is PvP, as there is no challenge in PvE). I believe the majority are under some delusion that Microtransactions will steal their money, cause their opponents to have unfair advantages, etc..
Let me turn the question upon you.
There is no legitimate reason for developers to with hold cosmetic content from their game and demand a ransom from anyone who wishes to engage in that content. Name one reason how this benefits the playerbase as a whole.
The problem is that there is not one benefit of this type of greed from companies. Removing content that should be an ingame achievement and offering it for real dollars is a design contradiction. The company is rewarded for NOT making content for people to play a game and you are here supporting that behavior. They are asking the player base to pay money to not play the game. Think about it. They are now asking everyone to pay full subscription rate for less than 100% of the game. There is no way to justify that being a good thing.
Not to mention the naive mindset you have in assuming this can only be limited to cosmetic items only. This is a precedent that paves the way to much more drastic items. If you can't see that then you are only fooling yourself.
There is no legitimate reason for people to hate Microtransactions, as long as they aren't forced, don't unbalance competition (which in Champions Online is PvP, as there is no challenge in PvE). I believe the majority are under some delusion that Microtransactions will steal their money, cause their opponents to have unfair advantages, etc.. If the MT's are just costume pieces, easier traveling, and XP boosts, there is absolutely no reason to get upset. You can simply never spend a dime over the monthly fee, and that guy you fight in PvP who leveled to your level in 1/2 the time or who has a shinier cape will have no more advantage over you than anyone else. Level bracket PvP doesn't work that way, you're not in direct competition with people in PvE, and costumes don't give damage boosts. No reason to whine.
No reason to hate.
And absolutely NO REASON to abandon a game because of it. In fact... you might just BENEFIT from MT's, having more and better updates. All hate for something that doesn't change the balance of PvP is completely illogical and without valid reason. It's as ignorant and unreasonable as the hate mobs that drive to other states to boycott Health Care Reform Town Halls. Those that hate aesthetic MT's are the rednecks of the internet.
You my dear SIR must be stupid, we have game X it charges me 14,99$ for me to play their game. If I pay this I get everything. Then we have company Y they charges me 14,99$ to play their game but then I have to fork up some extra money if I want to travel faster or get a new item???
Eample 2 we have restaurant X they charge me 20$ to eat with a soda and bread on the side then we have restaurant Y they charge me 20$ to eat and an extra 5$ for the soda and another 2$ for the bread. Now you can argue and say that I can drink water and skipp the bread I realy dont need it, it's just an extra...... But if I want it I have to fork up that money...... Microtransactions are the plague and should be avoided att all cost.
Sorry that is just the way that I feel, so no champions online for me, Im gona play Aion instead...
Didn't they say that all the stuff you can get from MTs you can also get in the game the traditional way? If so then no big deal, I don't see anyone being forced to buy anything. But then again, you all know better than I do...I mean look at all these replies...smaaaaaaart......
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
No...you're completely missing the point but what else is new. Don't feel bad because you're not alone. Most aren't saying you HAVE to use the cash shop or their rmt model to acquire the items.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It always surprises me that, despite the current trend for despising Subscription+MT models, no-one seems to care that WoW has been doing it for absolutely bloody ages.
Paid character transfers.
Paid name changes.
Paid gender/face changes.
Then of course there's the slew of cosmetic in-game items available by external purchases, like items rewarded by the trading-card game and tickets to Blizzcon. It's all unique stuff that you can't get in-game any other way.
And that's all in addition to the normal subscription fee.
But now it seems that if a game company has the audacity to be up-front enough to actually put the same type of cosmetic stuff in an item-shop, people go nuts and react as though said company has admitted that their game masters molest small puppies during server maintenance.
Is it a case of ignorance is bliss? .. by "hiding" the MTs in a TCG/event attendance, has WoW just slipped under the radar? .. it would be very interesting to see what sort of reaction Blizzard would get if they opened an item-shop selling all the TCG obtainable rewards.
Make no mistake, I'm no MT fanboi .. hell, I tend to avoid it like the plague .. but while it is limited to cosmetic items and doesn't negatively impact my game-experience (aside from the occasional "Hey, that's cool .. oh, TCG loot. Meh.") then I can live with it.
I don't put much credence in the "slippery slope" argument; afaik it's never happened and if it did, there's always the "cancel subscription" option to show developers that it's unacceptable..
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Fluff RMT’s are a dangerous first step to cash shops which have truly game effecting items in them.
XP boosts and quick travel are game effecting items, how on earth the OP trhinks these are 'aesthetic' transactions I do not know. Fluff is things like a new cosmetic outfit, a chair for your home etc.
The concept that RMT will be introduced and all the profit from it will be ploughed back into the game is extraordinary naive. Companies exist to make profit, they would not survive otherwise. Yes some proportion of this might well go into game investment. But the lions share would go into the shareholders pockets, make no mistake.
Don't rattle our cage or the 'children' will wake up and respond to a post which is pure wishful thinking.
Calling people with another opinion names, how childish is that?
You sound like Bill Roper who is disappointed because of his failed attempt to convince a big part of the playerbase that MT+subscription is OK. No its not for me! It is just greedyness and I will not preorder the game anymore because of this mess. I will wait how this evolves, if it gets more worse I will not touch the game, though I hope that most players will avoid the MT-shop and make it unsuccessful. I won't pay Ropers Bill!
Just give me one reason why a MT-shop is a good thing for the players? And don't try to pull the argument that there is more fluff given then, they lock some of the good looking items out of the game into the shop. If there wouldn't have been a shop you could have used all items for "free" (which means for the subscription fee).
The thing is that monthly subscriptions already punish "casual" players since someone playing 5 hours/months pay the same as someone who play 100 hours/month. And what kind of player wnats fluff and xp poitions? Its no the hardcore players since they get it fast anyway. Its casuals who pay extra even if they play less. Doesnt make any sense to me.
Maybe they should charge you 2$ everytime you want to enter a Raid or a PvP match?
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
It always surprises me that, despite the current trend for despising Subscription+MT models, no-one seems to care that WoW has been doing it for absolutely bloody ages. Paid character transfers.
Paid name changes.
Paid gender/face changes. Then of course there's the slew of cosmetic in-game items available by external purchases, like items rewarded by the trading-card game and tickets to Blizzcon. It's all unique stuff that you can't get in-game any other way. And that's all in addition to the normal subscription fee. But now it seems that if a game company has the audacity to be up-front enough to actually put the same type of cosmetic stuff in an item-shop, people go nuts and react as though said company has admitted that their game masters molest small puppies during server maintenance. Is it a case of ignorance is bliss? .. by "hiding" the MTs in a TCG/event attendance, has WoW just slipped under the radar? .. it would be very interesting to see what sort of reaction Blizzard would get if they opened an item-shop selling all the TCG obtainable rewards. Make no mistake, I'm no MT fanboi .. hell, I tend to avoid it like the plague .. but while it is limited to cosmetic items and doesn't negatively impact my game-experience (aside from the occasional "Hey, that's cool .. oh, TCG loot. Meh.") then I can live with it. I don't put much credence in the "slippery slope" argument; afaik it's never happened and if it did, there's always the "cancel subscription" option to show developers that it's unacceptable..
This is a good point.
The thing about slippery slopes is that you have to know when to say 'this is too much'. Just because you thing that one step in teh 'slippery slope' is ok, does not mean that you are ok with the followup step.
So far Blizzard has walked a fine line. Stuff like the paid server changes or name changes are generally considered CS fees, outside the actual gameplay. They might affect the social dynamics of a server but son;t shift the in-game power balance. The TCG and Blizzcon fluff stuff is closer to the line but is primarily promotional stuff. There are like a 100 other cool looking mounts or pets you can get so the impact is trivial. There is no status symbol associated with them.
Ultimately it is an issue of trust in the company. People trust that Blizzard will not step over the line with microtransactions because of their history and because the financial incentive is not there for the company at this time. If Blizzard decides to plunge over the line, the trust will be broken and there will be a backlash.
Let's face it MMORPGs are an investment of time for people. Veteran MMORPG players like to commit to a game for a long time. If we think that the game company is going to screw us over a few months down the line most will prefer to stay away from the game since we do not want the disapointment of having to quit yet another MMO.
The way Champions and SOE is having box+ monthly sub+ microtransactions is just greedy and I will never support anything like that. The DDO model looks really interesting IMO and makes paying much more flexible since I can choose to buy what I want when I want it.
The DDO model sounds almost identical to Wizard's 101. My daughter plays it and when she advances enough to enter a new area, I buy it. It's actually not a bad system.
Wizard 101 is special. Once you buy an area, you get permanent access without having to pay a monthly subscription on top of it. Not only that, but it's accessible to all of the characters on your account forever, it never expires.
The general cost for each adventure area is 750 crowns, which is around 2 bucks. You essentially get a lifetime membership for the entire game for around 75 bucks or you can pay $9.99 a month for a regular subscription.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
The thing is that monthly subscriptions already punish "casual" players since someone playing 5 hours/months pay the same as someone who play 100 hours/month. And what kind of player wnats fluff and xp poitions? Its no the hardcore players since they get it fast anyway. Its casuals who pay extra even if they play less. Doesnt make any sense to me. Maybe they should charge you 2$ everytime you want to enter a Raid or a PvP match?
You know, we paid hourly or per the minute for gaming and net access before.
It sucked royally, really did.
Not only that, but it got expensive very fast...
Where did that system go? People and telecompanies/game companies found that the subscription model was better.
But hey, why should we depend on experiences earned in the past? Or experiences learned from RMT games of today... Where content is left out so you can buy it, where new content end up on the shop, where the grind is increased to make sure you'd buy potions in the shop, where to stay competetive you often have to spend more in the shop than what you'd spend in a subscription based game....
Buddy of mine one month had to pay 5000$ for his net gaming... Thats what 1 month of breaking a foot, spending his time flying in a online ww2 plane sim costed him. Per the minute fee for internet access... Per the hour fee for game access.
Me and him would rather give up on the internet and gaming than go back to that..
Is a subscription ever going to make you think: "Can I afford to play more this month?".... The hourly and per minute fee did.
There is no legitimate reason for people to hate Microtransactions, as long as they aren't forced, don't unbalance competition (which in Champions Online is PvP, as there is no challenge in PvE). I believe the majority are under some delusion that Microtransactions will steal their money, cause their opponents to have unfair advantages, etc.. If the MT's are just costume pieces, easier traveling, and XP boosts, there is absolutely no reason to get upset. You can simply never spend a dime over the monthly fee, and that guy you fight in PvP who leveled to your level in 1/2 the time or who has a shinier cape will have no more advantage over you than anyone else. Level bracket PvP doesn't work that way, you're not in direct competition with people in PvE, and costumes don't give damage boosts. No reason to whine.
No reason to hate.
And absolutely NO REASON to abandon a game because of it. In fact... you might just BENEFIT from MT's, having more and better updates. All hate for something that doesn't change the balance of PvP is completely illogical and without valid reason. It's as ignorant and unreasonable as the hate mobs that drive to other states to boycott Health Care Reform Town Halls. Those that hate aesthetic MT's are the rednecks of the internet.
I don't hate RMT, I choose not to play a game that has RMT, it has nothing to do with any of the reasons you mention, as my reason is simple, why should I pay something extra for something that I could or should get just from playing the game.
I don't care what other people do with their money as it's their money. Overall I like, sometimes love fluff, but again why should I pay extra in terms of money to get it, why not making it accesseble with quest/crafting/trading/looting from within the game.
The sub plus MT model will likely send the genre back into the dark ages. Greedy companies will push it for as long as they can, but eventually it will be more important to have lots of people paying a nominal fee versus a handful paying a premium fee. Personally, I hope all of the companies that jump on this bandwagon, go out of business. Greed should be punished, not rewarded.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
With DDOs new buisness model you can choose to eith be a "free" player or a VIP. As a VIP you pay nromal subscripton and get access to all contetn plus you get 500 "turbine points" every month to spend on extra stuff like healing potions etc.
As a "Free player" you will not have access to everything, you must pay to unclock some classes/races and also alot of the quests/zones in the game. I think roughly 1/3 of the content is available without spending money and then you buy adventure packs for the content you want. You also get TPs from playing the game so you could grind for them instead of buying.
That sounds fair enough to me, then. It's a sort of extended demo that you can upgrade if you so choose. I shall give it a whirl when the change comes about.
My one only issue with RMT fluff being added is it tying up a designer that could be making new armor or content for the game.
Like I thought EQ2 was adding a newer skeleton system to add variety for armor and sets not that I particulary hate EQ2 armor its a little limited is all.....could this guy be working on this system or is he desinging $5 dollar capes for the RMT is my point.
When aesthetic items go on sale in the item mall, they aren't being made by players, sold by players, and bought by players in the game world with game currency. We can't have the kind of immersive worlds we want where the players determine what goes on in the game world when an ever increasing part of the game world is influenced by what goes on in the item mall.
That's why I'm against item malls. They take away the things that used to be done by players for an in-game activity and turn it into something the devs do for an added fee. Art resources are no longer used to make the game better. They aren't used to make the play experience more varied and enriching. Instead of going to player vendors to get the things players want, they are going to the publisher's vendor.
See, item malls break immersion. It sends the signal out that what goes on in the game is influenced by what goes on in the secure transaction server. It also impacts the very people that make the community good: roleplayers and players mindful of how they appear to others.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
There is no legitimate reason for people to hate Microtransactions, as long as they aren't forced, don't unbalance competition (which in Champions Online is PvP, as there is no challenge in PvE). I hate them because they open the door for transactions that can influence the game in a negative way, sorry. I believe the majority are under some delusion that Microtransactions will steal their money, cause their opponents to have unfair advantages, etc.. This "delusion" is based on experience from other games in which the best gear could be purchased with real money. It may not start out as the case for whatever game you are promoting, but it can eventually become just that. If the MT's are just costume pieces, easier traveling, and XP boosts, there is absolutely no reason to get upset. You can simply never spend a dime over the monthly fee, and that guy you fight in PvP who leveled to your level in 1/2 the time or who has a shinier cape will have no more advantage over you than anyone else. Level bracket PvP doesn't work that way, you're not in direct competition with people in PvE, and costumes don't give damage boosts. Leveling at a quicker rate is an advantage that alters gameplay. I pay my monthly fee in order to play a game at a rate which is the same for all players. Also, you have to take into consideration the amount of time to train at the max level the exp increase gives players. If I take an extra two weeks to level that is two weeks in which the person with 20 bucks had time to figure out how to pvp and what to do to kill me as I try to learn. No reason to whine.
No reason to hate.
And absolutely NO REASON to abandon a game because of it. Sure there is. I don't play games that offer items for real money. That's a perfectly valid reason to abandon a game. It has a feature I think is stupid and greedy. In fact... you might just BENEFIT from MT's, having more and better updates. If buying vanity items in a game means that the game will make more updates, I'm fairly sure they will spend a large chunk of their time making more vanity items. The whole idea is that you make more of what keeps people playing. If your item shop is really popular, you will spend extra time making more item shop items. All hate for something that doesn't change the balance of PvP is completely illogical and without valid reason. It's as ignorant and unreasonable as the hate mobs that drive to other states to boycott Health Care Reform Town Halls. Those that hate aesthetic MT's are the rednecks of the internet. That's a fairly ridiculous claim, man. Honestly, the whole concept is something I dislike for valid reasons. It replaces real effort with money and the benefit of time with the benefit of disposable income. I enjoy MMOs as a hobby because they are cheap and they don't require a lot of disposable income to generate a reasonably fun time. The idea that MTs have no impact on balance is interesting. I agree, at least, that having vanity only MTs may seem like a safe way for games to turn extra profit, but I think in the end greed with create more and more access to items within those shops. You can never trust a system like that to remain harmless.
As far as I'm concerned, if I'm paying a monthly fee for the game, I'm not paying anything through RMT, I ought to have access to everything in the game. Now if the devs want to offer a much lower monthly fee around $9.99 and an aesthetic-only MT, that's fine, I guess, so long as there is never anything in the MT that affects actual gameplay.
Maybe a better idea and one that will probably make more money and have fewer disagreements is having the regular monthly fee and the item shop is specifically for custom items. Charge $5 to map any non-copyright, non-pornographic image onto a piece of clothing. Charge $10 to make a suit of armor purple. Charge $20 to make a sword that looks different. Those who care about such things can go crazy and stand out from the crowd, those who don't... don't.
Originally posted by Zlayer77 You my dear SIR must be stupid, we have game X it charges me 14,99$ for me to play their game. If I pay this I get everything. Then we have company Y they charges me 14,99$ to play their game but then I have to fork up some extra money if I want to travel faster or get a new item??? Eample 2 we have restaurant X they charge me 20$ to eat with a soda and bread on the side then we have restaurant Y they charge me 20$ to eat and an extra 5$ for the soda and another 2$ for the bread. Now you can argue and say that I can drink water and skipp the bread I realy dont need it, it's just an extra...... But if I want it I have to fork up that money...... Microtransactions are the plague and should be avoided att all cost. Sorry that is just the way that I feel, so no champions online for me, Im gona play Aion instead...
Aesthetic-
adjective.
1. pertaining to a sense of the beautiful or to the science of aesthetics.
2. having a sense of the beautiful; characterized by a love of beauty.
3. pertaining to, involving, or concerned with pure emotion and sensation as opposed to pure intellectuality.
To put it simply where someone like you could understand, it would be the restaurant equivalent of being charged $20 to eat, but for $2 extra you can get RED napkins instead of WHITE napkins.
At worst, you could pay $5 extra to get your food twice as fast as a normal restaurant.
If you don't buy any extra, you get normal service, normal colored napkins, and it's the exact same as any other restaurant.
...that guy you fight in PvP who leveled to your level in 1/2 the time ... [snip]... will have no more advantage over you than anyone else.
He will if he continues to level at twice the rate I do.
No, he will never have more of an advantage over you than anyone else. Most PvP is in level brackets, meaning that when he is more powerful than you, you will stop competing with him.
In PvE? There is no competition.
Of course, if you're a niche gamer who wants open all-level PvP, you're gonna die anyways by 1000's of others twice your level, so one guy is irrelevant to everyone but those who hold vendettas. If your niche is to compete in PvE with other players, then I'm sorry. I'm just sorry...
In most game styles, and in most popular MMO structures, double XP potions will do nothing to give anyone more of an advantage over you. If you still have a problem with it, you shouldn't. You should be far more concerned to complain about people with max level alts, power leveling, twinking, gear balance, or a buttload of other things that cause a far greater imbalance between the haves and the have nots.
Meh, i wouldn't have a problem with MT's If that was the sole payment model. However, it isn't, 15 bucks + MT's to access other junk. For now, its just cosmetic items until companies see willing customers such as yourself willing to bend ... then they start adding whatever they please to make an extra buck off those that can afford it. Smart business move? Probably so, but I won't help it become a reality.
I believe that the majority of people who are okay with Aesthetic MT's + Monthly Payment would react entirely different to Monthly Payment + Power MT's.
I would never play, nor even think of subscribing to any game that requires me to pay monthly AND FORCES players to purchase MT items just to complete in PvP.
I think it's rather naive for people to think that Aesthetic MT's will "pave the way" for MT's that unbalance PvP gameplay.
Any MMO that tries that will quickly lose over 90% of their playerbase, and the next month say "We're sorry, we got rid of those MT's and everyone who quit gets a free month." Just so they don't go broke.
I can see how both a player and a developer can benefit from charging for server transfers or name changes.
How does an RMT shop benefits the player? Because from where I stand, all I can see is a company taking advantage of the players enthusiasm so they can milk them for cash.
And since the gold sellers/farmers decided to take over the development of games and legalise gold selling, how do we justify the process? By calling naive the people who don't swallow with a smile this abomination?
Comments
The DDO model sounds almost identical to Wizard's 101. My daughter plays it and when she advances enough to enter a new area, I buy it. It's actually not a bad system.
It seems to me there's three rough categories of player, those who don't care about getting to max level and those that care a lot, with those who care a lot split into those who want to get to max level for the PvP and those who just seem to really hate other players being higher level than them. Making the XP fast early on and then slowing it down to get people to pay real money for XP potions seems deliberately designed to exploit that mentality.
If someone is desperate to get to the max level faster then it would be a lot simpler if the item shop just sold them a max level character and have done with it. However I think both the latter groups would be much happier with games designed around what they want i.e games that are PvP from the start or which have no levels and everyone is the same from the beginning.
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Creating a good game and then selling it in segments is a bit like selling expansions.
hmm...I think I will quit any damn game anytime I want because of any REASON I decide; and then to end your argument by insulting anyone who doesnt agree with you...quite frankly shows your maturity level.
To the point though...If I can pay a monthly sub and get everything in game then thats the game I will play...no matter how long it takes me to get content...I enjoy the game and have no problem earning my rewards...I have no desire or need to play a game with MT...its not my style and yes I think it ends up corrupting games (thats just my OWN opinion) does that make me a redneck? no more than me living in the deepsouth does...just means I wont play your game
I AM like the wind!
Let me turn the question upon you.
There is no legitimate reason for developers to with hold cosmetic content from their game and demand a ransom from anyone who wishes to engage in that content. Name one reason how this benefits the playerbase as a whole.
The problem is that there is not one benefit of this type of greed from companies. Removing content that should be an ingame achievement and offering it for real dollars is a design contradiction. The company is rewarded for NOT making content for people to play a game and you are here supporting that behavior. They are asking the player base to pay money to not play the game. Think about it. They are now asking everyone to pay full subscription rate for less than 100% of the game. There is no way to justify that being a good thing.
Not to mention the naive mindset you have in assuming this can only be limited to cosmetic items only. This is a precedent that paves the way to much more drastic items. If you can't see that then you are only fooling yourself.
You my dear SIR must be stupid, we have game X it charges me 14,99$ for me to play their game. If I pay this I get everything. Then we have company Y they charges me 14,99$ to play their game but then I have to fork up some extra money if I want to travel faster or get a new item???
Eample 2 we have restaurant X they charge me 20$ to eat with a soda and bread on the side then we have restaurant Y they charge me 20$ to eat and an extra 5$ for the soda and another 2$ for the bread. Now you can argue and say that I can drink water and skipp the bread I realy dont need it, it's just an extra...... But if I want it I have to fork up that money...... Microtransactions are the plague and should be avoided att all cost.
Sorry that is just the way that I feel, so no champions online for me, Im gona play Aion instead...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
No...you're completely missing the point but what else is new. Don't feel bad because you're not alone. Most aren't saying you HAVE to use the cash shop or their rmt model to acquire the items.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It always surprises me that, despite the current trend for despising Subscription+MT models, no-one seems to care that WoW has been doing it for absolutely bloody ages.
Paid character transfers.
Paid name changes.
Paid gender/face changes.
Then of course there's the slew of cosmetic in-game items available by external purchases, like items rewarded by the trading-card game and tickets to Blizzcon. It's all unique stuff that you can't get in-game any other way.
And that's all in addition to the normal subscription fee.
But now it seems that if a game company has the audacity to be up-front enough to actually put the same type of cosmetic stuff in an item-shop, people go nuts and react as though said company has admitted that their game masters molest small puppies during server maintenance.
Is it a case of ignorance is bliss? .. by "hiding" the MTs in a TCG/event attendance, has WoW just slipped under the radar? .. it would be very interesting to see what sort of reaction Blizzard would get if they opened an item-shop selling all the TCG obtainable rewards.
Make no mistake, I'm no MT fanboi .. hell, I tend to avoid it like the plague .. but while it is limited to cosmetic items and doesn't negatively impact my game-experience (aside from the occasional "Hey, that's cool .. oh, TCG loot. Meh.") then I can live with it.
I don't put much credence in the "slippery slope" argument; afaik it's never happened and if it did, there's always the "cancel subscription" option to show developers that it's unacceptable..
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Fluff RMT’s are a dangerous first step to cash shops which have truly game effecting items in them.
XP boosts and quick travel are game effecting items, how on earth the OP trhinks these are 'aesthetic' transactions I do not know. Fluff is things like a new cosmetic outfit, a chair for your home etc.
The concept that RMT will be introduced and all the profit from it will be ploughed back into the game is extraordinary naive. Companies exist to make profit, they would not survive otherwise. Yes some proportion of this might well go into game investment. But the lions share would go into the shareholders pockets, make no mistake.
Don't rattle our cage or the 'children' will wake up and respond to a post which is pure wishful thinking.
Calling people with another opinion names, how childish is that?
You sound like Bill Roper who is disappointed because of his failed attempt to convince a big part of the playerbase that MT+subscription is OK. No its not for me! It is just greedyness and I will not preorder the game anymore because of this mess. I will wait how this evolves, if it gets more worse I will not touch the game, though I hope that most players will avoid the MT-shop and make it unsuccessful. I won't pay Ropers Bill!
Just give me one reason why a MT-shop is a good thing for the players? And don't try to pull the argument that there is more fluff given then, they lock some of the good looking items out of the game into the shop. If there wouldn't have been a shop you could have used all items for "free" (which means for the subscription fee).
[X] drill here for new monitor
The thing is that monthly subscriptions already punish "casual" players since someone playing 5 hours/months pay the same as someone who play 100 hours/month. And what kind of player wnats fluff and xp poitions? Its no the hardcore players since they get it fast anyway. Its casuals who pay extra even if they play less. Doesnt make any sense to me.
Maybe they should charge you 2$ everytime you want to enter a Raid or a PvP match?
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
This is a good point.
The thing about slippery slopes is that you have to know when to say 'this is too much'. Just because you thing that one step in teh 'slippery slope' is ok, does not mean that you are ok with the followup step.
So far Blizzard has walked a fine line. Stuff like the paid server changes or name changes are generally considered CS fees, outside the actual gameplay. They might affect the social dynamics of a server but son;t shift the in-game power balance. The TCG and Blizzcon fluff stuff is closer to the line but is primarily promotional stuff. There are like a 100 other cool looking mounts or pets you can get so the impact is trivial. There is no status symbol associated with them.
Ultimately it is an issue of trust in the company. People trust that Blizzard will not step over the line with microtransactions because of their history and because the financial incentive is not there for the company at this time. If Blizzard decides to plunge over the line, the trust will be broken and there will be a backlash.
Let's face it MMORPGs are an investment of time for people. Veteran MMORPG players like to commit to a game for a long time. If we think that the game company is going to screw us over a few months down the line most will prefer to stay away from the game since we do not want the disapointment of having to quit yet another MMO.
The DDO model sounds almost identical to Wizard's 101. My daughter plays it and when she advances enough to enter a new area, I buy it. It's actually not a bad system.
Wizard 101 is special. Once you buy an area, you get permanent access without having to pay a monthly subscription on top of it. Not only that, but it's accessible to all of the characters on your account forever, it never expires.
The general cost for each adventure area is 750 crowns, which is around 2 bucks. You essentially get a lifetime membership for the entire game for around 75 bucks or you can pay $9.99 a month for a regular subscription.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
You know, we paid hourly or per the minute for gaming and net access before.
It sucked royally, really did.
Not only that, but it got expensive very fast...
Where did that system go? People and telecompanies/game companies found that the subscription model was better.
But hey, why should we depend on experiences earned in the past? Or experiences learned from RMT games of today... Where content is left out so you can buy it, where new content end up on the shop, where the grind is increased to make sure you'd buy potions in the shop, where to stay competetive you often have to spend more in the shop than what you'd spend in a subscription based game....
Buddy of mine one month had to pay 5000$ for his net gaming... Thats what 1 month of breaking a foot, spending his time flying in a online ww2 plane sim costed him. Per the minute fee for internet access... Per the hour fee for game access.
Me and him would rather give up on the internet and gaming than go back to that..
Is a subscription ever going to make you think: "Can I afford to play more this month?".... The hourly and per minute fee did.
I don't hate RMT, I choose not to play a game that has RMT, it has nothing to do with any of the reasons you mention, as my reason is simple, why should I pay something extra for something that I could or should get just from playing the game.
I don't care what other people do with their money as it's their money. Overall I like, sometimes love fluff, but again why should I pay extra in terms of money to get it, why not making it accesseble with quest/crafting/trading/looting from within the game.
The sub plus MT model will likely send the genre back into the dark ages. Greedy companies will push it for as long as they can, but eventually it will be more important to have lots of people paying a nominal fee versus a handful paying a premium fee. Personally, I hope all of the companies that jump on this bandwagon, go out of business. Greed should be punished, not rewarded.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
That sounds fair enough to me, then. It's a sort of extended demo that you can upgrade if you so choose. I shall give it a whirl when the change comes about.
My one only issue with RMT fluff being added is it tying up a designer that could be making new armor or content for the game.
Like I thought EQ2 was adding a newer skeleton system to add variety for armor and sets not that I particulary hate EQ2 armor its a little limited is all.....could this guy be working on this system or is he desinging $5 dollar capes for the RMT
is my point.
When aesthetic items go on sale in the item mall, they aren't being made by players, sold by players, and bought by players in the game world with game currency. We can't have the kind of immersive worlds we want where the players determine what goes on in the game world when an ever increasing part of the game world is influenced by what goes on in the item mall.
That's why I'm against item malls. They take away the things that used to be done by players for an in-game activity and turn it into something the devs do for an added fee. Art resources are no longer used to make the game better. They aren't used to make the play experience more varied and enriching. Instead of going to player vendors to get the things players want, they are going to the publisher's vendor.
See, item malls break immersion. It sends the signal out that what goes on in the game is influenced by what goes on in the secure transaction server. It also impacts the very people that make the community good: roleplayers and players mindful of how they appear to others.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
As far as I'm concerned, if I'm paying a monthly fee for the game, I'm not paying anything through RMT, I ought to have access to everything in the game. Now if the devs want to offer a much lower monthly fee around $9.99 and an aesthetic-only MT, that's fine, I guess, so long as there is never anything in the MT that affects actual gameplay.
Maybe a better idea and one that will probably make more money and have fewer disagreements is having the regular monthly fee and the item shop is specifically for custom items. Charge $5 to map any non-copyright, non-pornographic image onto a piece of clothing. Charge $10 to make a suit of armor purple. Charge $20 to make a sword that looks different. Those who care about such things can go crazy and stand out from the crowd, those who don't... don't.
Seems like the best solution to me.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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I have a problem with XP boosts. I don't think they should be allowed. Aesthetic items I'm ok with.
Aesthetic-
adjective.
1. pertaining to a sense of the beautiful or to the science of aesthetics.
2. having a sense of the beautiful; characterized by a love of beauty.
3. pertaining to, involving, or concerned with pure emotion and sensation as opposed to pure intellectuality.
To put it simply where someone like you could understand, it would be the restaurant equivalent of being charged $20 to eat, but for $2 extra you can get RED napkins instead of WHITE napkins.
At worst, you could pay $5 extra to get your food twice as fast as a normal restaurant.
If you don't buy any extra, you get normal service, normal colored napkins, and it's the exact same as any other restaurant.
Does that make sense, Zlayer77?
He will if he continues to level at twice the rate I do.
No, he will never have more of an advantage over you than anyone else. Most PvP is in level brackets, meaning that when he is more powerful than you, you will stop competing with him.
In PvE? There is no competition.
Of course, if you're a niche gamer who wants open all-level PvP, you're gonna die anyways by 1000's of others twice your level, so one guy is irrelevant to everyone but those who hold vendettas. If your niche is to compete in PvE with other players, then I'm sorry. I'm just sorry...
In most game styles, and in most popular MMO structures, double XP potions will do nothing to give anyone more of an advantage over you. If you still have a problem with it, you shouldn't. You should be far more concerned to complain about people with max level alts, power leveling, twinking, gear balance, or a buttload of other things that cause a far greater imbalance between the haves and the have nots.
I believe that the majority of people who are okay with Aesthetic MT's + Monthly Payment would react entirely different to Monthly Payment + Power MT's.
I would never play, nor even think of subscribing to any game that requires me to pay monthly AND FORCES players to purchase MT items just to complete in PvP.
I think it's rather naive for people to think that Aesthetic MT's will "pave the way" for MT's that unbalance PvP gameplay.
Any MMO that tries that will quickly lose over 90% of their playerbase, and the next month say "We're sorry, we got rid of those MT's and everyone who quit gets a free month." Just so they don't go broke.
Calling others childish I see. Lets see then ...
I can see how both a player and a developer can benefit from charging for server transfers or name changes.
How does an RMT shop benefits the player? Because from where I stand, all I can see is a company taking advantage of the players enthusiasm so they can milk them for cash.
And since the gold sellers/farmers decided to take over the development of games and legalise gold selling, how do we justify the process? By calling naive the people who don't swallow with a smile this abomination?