On May 6th 2009 CCP anounced (you can easily google this):
"EVE now has over 300,000 active subscriptions (not including trial accounts)"
Nowhere it is implied that they have 300,000 paying customers, it could be 100,000 people each with three active accounts for all that we know. Does it matter?
The number people logging in at any single time has little to do with the real number of paying players. Some keep the subscription while on extended leave or while deployed, not logging for months (I know a few), others log only an hour a day, or only on weekends, others are burnt and only log to change skills until they are ready to come back again. Then there are some who log several hours a day. How many are of each? We just don't know.
And then here are players that are just on a trial account, how many are logged at any given time?
Trying to guess the number of paying customers using the number of people logged in the game is just a guess, and a wild one at that.
When we calculate things like this we think of what we know. You know many people with multiple accounts, I don't. In my previous corp we were 15 people, most of them new players, RL colleagues and friends. Only five of us had more than one account. There are also many players that try the game, play for a few months a leave, never having more than one account. We never hear of them. They don't usually post in the forums, or even join a real corp. We all hear a lot about the very comited players, these are the ones playing in low or nul sec, flying T2, T3 or capital ships, posting in the forums and voting or one of the CSM candidates. These core of players are the minority... in every game, not only EvE. The silent mayority are the ones we never heard of. It is impossible to say how many are out there. We can guess, but that's it, a guess.
So unless you have some way to calculate how many of the logged in players are trials, are casual players, are guys just changing a skill, how many are core players, and how many of those are playing with several accounts simultaneusly, ... well, all you have is a wild guess. That's it.
CCP claims that only a small percentage own two or more accounts. They can see our IPs and in some cases they can see the same card or bank account paying for several accounts. Whatever number they come up with will be much closer to anything any of us may guess.
I just want to clear a few things up around here about the myth that keeps on showing up in these forums. The fact is there is no where near 300k players. These are accounts, and personally many of these accounts are owned by people who multibox. I myself have 3 accounts, my close friends that I play with all have atleast 1 extra account for either covert ops "eyes", manufacturing, or logistics. This guy alone can describe 90% of eve players, not that everyone has this many accounts but in general this is how things are around EVE. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1215928
I hate to break it to these guys feeding misinformation but this is the honest to god truth. At no point in time will you ever see the players currently online break 50k. I have seen it at 51k ONE time in my 5 and a half years of playing. Hell I think out of the 100's of people I know maybe 4 have one account, and 2 of them guys closed the second account due to $$ issues.
Does this affect the game itself and make it less fun? Some say yes, but I don't feel it does. If I had to guess i'd say there is maybe 75k players at best. Which is still good. By no means is the game empty and in my opinion it has just the right number of players. Just thought I would clear it up. Cheers
You make wild claims, which are alot more invalid than the fact that EVE Online has 300k+ subscriptions ( 301826 in september 09 ) and a Peak Concurrent Users of 53850, reached in March 09 ( went down to 46880 after the Unholy Rage against bots, but is going back up again, with 50873 in september ).
The 300k+ subs excludes the +/- 40k trials, so in total they have around 340k active accounts.
Now, everyone know alot of players have multi accounts, and EVE has probably some more of them than some other MMO's, but claiming it has 75k players at best is just wild guessing and in contradiction to the official 15-20% multi account players number.
If you want to make a point, please try to stick to the facts, otherwise you will be looked at as just another troll or newb.
Please post your facts other then your ramblings. Please show me where CCP shows these numbers. And please point me to where this says individual accounts. You have to understand I am on unemployment right now due to the economy and I play from DT til 1 or 2 am EST . I know what my screen says when I log to switch alts for my cyno pilots. Lets put this in 8 hour shifts shall we.
3 x 8 hour shifts at 30k (being nice) players. that is 90k players all around. Now give or take 20k for ones offline that are used for manufacturing, that is 110k at BEST. And a good majority of them are alt accounts. Subtract the trials at say 20k to be nice. and you still have 90k subs.
CCP gives me their numbers directly thru mail, for my website. ( check my sig ).
But they also periodically publish their numbers if they reach a record. Here is a link :
These are active, payed for, subscribers. Well they say subscribers, but if you want to get technical, they are subscriptions, because there are indeed many players that have multiple accounts. And CCP also promotes it with the Power of 2.
So they are not all individual players, what CCP means by subscribers are all payed for subscriptions, and I quote from the mail I got from CCP ( guess you will have to trust me on that one ) :
"I can assure you that the 300k number does not include any trial accounts. Our subscriber number only includes paying subscribers."
Your mistake is taking a wild guess of 90% multi account subscribers, thats what I wanted to point out.
I can't find the 15-20% number, so I'll ask CCP directly and get back to you on that. ( They have good ways to check this using Creditcard and IP-number info ).
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
I just want to clear a few things up around here about the myth that keeps on showing up in these forums. The fact is there is no where near 300k players. These are accounts, and personally many of these accounts are owned by people who multibox. I myself have 3 accounts, my close friends that I play with all have atleast 1 extra account for either covert ops "eyes", manufacturing, or logistics. This guy alone can describe 90% of eve players, not that everyone has this many accounts but in general this is how things are around EVE. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1215928
I hate to break it to these guys feeding misinformation but this is the honest to god truth. At no point in time will you ever see the players currently online break 50k. I have seen it at 51k ONE time in my 5 and a half years of playing. Hell I think out of the 100's of people I know maybe 4 have one account, and 2 of them guys closed the second account due to $$ issues.
Does this affect the game itself and make it less fun? Some say yes, but I don't feel it does. If I had to guess i'd say there is maybe 75k players at best. Which is still good. By no means is the game empty and in my opinion it has just the right number of players. Just thought I would clear it up. Cheers
God I'm glad you finally cleared that up for us.
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
Not that it matters in the least but if we want to make semi-psuedo-scientific estimates based on vague numbers and assumptions we could take the current number of online players (31K) and assuming that some percentage of them are second accounts (for sake of simplicity we will assume the number of players running three, four, five or more accounts at the same time is vanishingly small) we can assume that there are at least 25,000 individuals alive, awake and busy trying to cheat, steal and kill each other in the Eve Universe. With a 23.8/7 availability of a single universe one can assume that at any time and on any day that something less than 100% of the active players will be trying to get on. A rational guess based on nothing at all would be that any specific time of day some where between 10% to 15% of the people possible to play will be playing.
Going with that this means one could reasonably argue that there are between 250,000 and 200,000 unique individuals playing the game. So the second account rate is probably higher than in other games but considering the nature of the game it is neither huge nor unreasonable.
CCP says EvE has 300K+ subscribers, but I never see any more than 44,000 on at the same time so let's start there - 44K.
Now, everyone has at least one alt, so we'll halve that, (22K) and then halve it again since so many people have more than one alt (11K).
Now, since we know most people quit before their trial is up, we'll assume 2/3 of those are trials (3,666).
Furthermore, making ISK is boring and a task only done by illegal RMT farmers. Of course there's a lot of them, so we'll halve that number again (1,833).
I don't know how many employees CCP has, but I'll estimate it at 600. So we knock off about 1800 for CCP employees + their alts + their alt's alts.
And that leaves us with 33 players. Only the regular forum posters play EvE.
I do not play this game, but who cares how many actual player there are. You enjoy the game, there are always enough peeps online and CCP get the money off 300k accounts. Everyone wins.
CCP says EvE has 300K+ subscribers, but I never see any more than 44,000 on at the same time so let's start there - 44K. Now, everyone has at least one alt, so we'll halve that, (22K) and then halve it again since so many people have more than one alt (11K).
Now, since we know most people quit before their trial is up, we'll assume 2/3 of those are trials (3,666). Furthermore, making ISK is boring and a task only done by illegal RMT farmers. Of course there's a lot of them, so we'll halve that number again (1,833).
I don't know how many employees CCP has, but I'll estimate it at 600. So we knock off about 1800 for CCP employees + their alts + their alt's alts.
And that leaves us with 33 players. Only the regular forum posters play EvE. _____________________________________________________________
(*) Calculation stolen from a post by Kessian in the official EvE Forums on 28.06.2009
OMG you are right! How could I have gotten the math so wrong with made up numbers? In fact based on that I have deduced that I am in fact a bot myself and now must reboo.........
CCP says EvE has 300K+ subscribers, but I never see any more than 44,000 on at the same time so let's start there - 44K. Now, everyone has at least one alt, so we'll halve that, (22K) and then halve it again since so many people have more than one alt (11K).
Now, since we know most people quit before their trial is up, we'll assume 2/3 of those are trials (3,666). Furthermore, making ISK is boring and a task only done by illegal RMT farmers. Of course there's a lot of them, so we'll halve that number again (1,833).
I don't know how many employees CCP has, but I'll estimate it at 600. So we knock off about 1800 for CCP employees + their alts + their alt's alts.
And that leaves us with 33 players. Only the regular forum posters play EvE. _____________________________________________________________
(*) Calculation stolen from a post by Kessian in the official EvE Forums on 28.06.2009
Just my luck, every time I go mining every player in the game is in the same system as me
CCP says EvE has 300K+ subscribers, but I never see any more than 44,000 on at the same time so let's start there - 44K. Now, everyone has at least one alt, so we'll halve that, (22K) and then halve it again since so many people have more than one alt (11K).
Now, since we know most people quit before their trial is up, we'll assume 2/3 of those are trials (3,666). Furthermore, making ISK is boring and a task only done by illegal RMT farmers. Of course there's a lot of them, so we'll halve that number again (1,833).
I don't know how many employees CCP has, but I'll estimate it at 600. So we knock off about 1800 for CCP employees + their alts + their alt's alts.
And that leaves us with 33 players. Only the regular forum posters play EvE. _____________________________________________________________
(*) Calculation stolen from a post by Kessian in the official EvE Forums on 28.06.2009
right, makes perfect sense because im sure theyre able to fund everything in the already existing game + regular expansions/content + all the advertising they have on the net with just 33 players. of ocurse then again, you must be psychic, after all you know EVERY player has an alt, or actually i guess 2 alts since you halved it twice based on alts. **claps for the special kid** not to mention the fact that you said 44k on at one time.... people arent on 24/7..... you should just put yourself out of your own misery or something, its got to be horribly painful trying to function in life with such a horrid excuse for a brain.
CCP says EvE has 300K+ subscribers, but I never see any more than 44,000 on at the same time so let's start there - 44K. Now, everyone has at least one alt, so we'll halve that, (22K) and then halve it again since so many people have more than one alt (11K).
Now, since we know most people quit before their trial is up, we'll assume 2/3 of those are trials (3,666). Furthermore, making ISK is boring and a task only done by illegal RMT farmers. Of course there's a lot of them, so we'll halve that number again (1,833).
I don't know how many employees CCP has, but I'll estimate it at 600. So we knock off about 1800 for CCP employees + their alts + their alt's alts.
And that leaves us with 33 players. Only the regular forum posters play EvE. _____________________________________________________________
(*) Calculation stolen from a post by Kessian in the official EvE Forums on 28.06.2009
right, makes perfect sense because im sure theyre able to fund everything in the already existing game + regular expansions/content + all the advertising they have on the net with just 33 players. of ocurse then again, you must be psychic, after all you know EVERY player has an alt, or actually i guess 2 alts since you halved it twice based on alts. **claps for the special kid** not to mention the fact that you said 44k on at one time.... people arent on 24/7..... you should just put yourself out of your own misery or something, its got to be horribly painful trying to function in life with such a horrid excuse for a brain.
0_o I mean really? You do realize that Eanok is kidding around right?
But w/e it doesn't matter I am only pointing out that 300k subs are not individuals players. And from personal experience I have only seen roughly 40-50k of players online at any given time. /end
right, makes perfect sense because im sure theyre able to fund everything in the already existing game + regular expansions/content + all the advertising they have on the net with just 33 players. of ocurse then again, you must be psychic, after all you know EVERY player has an alt, or actually i guess 2 alts since you halved it twice based on alts. **claps for the special kid** not to mention the fact that you said 44k on at one time.... people arent on 24/7..... you should just put yourself out of your own misery or something, its got to be horribly painful trying to function in life with such a horrid excuse for a brain.
LMAO
yes kaiser, it is horribly painful, you cannot imagine how difficult it is. I am so glad there is smart people like you guiding the rest of us with your wisdom.
But back to the post at hand. The reason I felt the need to post this is because of the constant claims of this number like its a medal of honor. I like EVE and like I said ive been here for awhile. Just trying to post the correct info to anyone interested.
The awesome part of your posts is that the only true and verifiable piece of data you have presented is the 200k number. Every other number you have presented has been or can easily be proven false. Max concurrency, percent of users with multiple accounts, 75k players (50% of the total playerbase regularly online at the same time? HOLY SHIT!)
My favorite, though, was this one:
"At no point in time will you ever see the players currently online break 50k."
Which was posted the same year that record had been broken several times.
"But w/e it doesn't matter I am only pointing out that 300k subs are not individuals players. And from personal experience I have only seen roughly 40-50k of players online at any given time. /end"
You do realize that, by industry averages, the second statement almost proves that there are 300k players.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
OK, so the OP was making a point. Not quite sure why it needed to be made, but I guess in case it wasn't clear to some folks, now they know. EVE doesn't have 300K actual subscribers.
Now, whether they have 75K, 125K or 33 ..... it makes what difference now?
As stated, at any given time there's 25-50K people logged in and playing. If that's not enough for some folks they know what game they should be playing.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
CCP says EvE has 300K+ subscribers, but I never see any more than 44,000 on at the same time so let's start there - 44K. Now, everyone has at least one alt, so we'll halve that, (22K) and then halve it again since so many people have more than one alt (11K).
Now, since we know most people quit before their trial is up, we'll assume 2/3 of those are trials (3,666). Furthermore, making ISK is boring and a task only done by illegal RMT farmers. Of course there's a lot of them, so we'll halve that number again (1,833).
I don't know how many employees CCP has, but I'll estimate it at 600. So we knock off about 1800 for CCP employees + their alts + their alt's alts.
And that leaves us with 33 players. Only the regular forum posters play EvE. _____________________________________________________________
(*) Calculation stolen from a post by Kessian in the official EvE Forums on 28.06.2009
right, makes perfect sense because im sure theyre able to fund everything in the already existing game + regular expansions/content + all the advertising they have on the net with just 33 players. of ocurse then again, you must be psychic, after all you know EVERY player has an alt, or actually i guess 2 alts since you halved it twice based on alts. **claps for the special kid** not to mention the fact that you said 44k on at one time.... people arent on 24/7..... you should just put yourself out of your own misery or something, its got to be horribly painful trying to function in life with such a horrid excuse for a brain.
0_o I mean really? You do realize that Eanok is kidding around right?
But w/e it doesn't matter I am only pointing out that 300k subs are not individuals players. And from personal experience I have only seen roughly 40-50k of players online at any given time. /end
No MMO out there gives accurate CCU numbers. Why would they? Some other MMO would just use it against them while claiming they have more, even if they don't. And we, the players, will never know the difference.
I've been playing ROHAN: BLOOD FEUD since it started. Best MMO out there IMO (never been a huge sci fi MMO fan). The servers have never seemed overly full to inhibit my gameplay, but there are tons of players. I'm currently on a new server they just opened up (Tempest) with a re-rolled char. Population is lower, but the economy is better and I enjoy not having to fight for my levelling as much. ROHAN has over 1 million subs. Well they're actually registrants, since there are no subscriptions since the game is free. Does ROHAN seem 4 times as full as Eve? No. But they're different games, and different games are built to sustain and thrive with different numbers of players.
And really, what does it matter? If the game is fun, if you like it, if the number of players isn't too low or too high to make it enjoyable, who cares what that number is?
No MMO out there gives accurate CCU numbers. Why would they?
I'm going to guess CCU is meant to be Concurrent Users? If so, EvE displays how many users are online at the login screen and, being one server it's really the only place you need to look. I mean sure, I guess the number could be inaccurate, but that starts to get into conspiracy theories and what not.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
To be honest the total number of subscribers does not matter to me the least, all I know that when I log on there is at least 25-50k unique pilots logged in the game at the same time. And whether or not those players have dual account does not matter to me either.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
No MMO out there gives accurate CCU numbers. Why would they?
I'm going to guess CCU is meant to be Concurrent Users? If so, EvE displays how many users are online at the login screen and, being one server it's really the only place you need to look. I mean sure, I guess the number could be inaccurate, but that starts to get into conspiracy theories and what not.
Okay, let's change the myth. This Eve is on one server thing is the real myth. Eve Online is played on one honking big cluster with lots of instanced systems that you have to move to. If anywhere near all of the players normally online (20k to 30k) tried to enter Jita I suspect that Iceland would go up in a cloud of steam from the resulting meltdown.
The fact that it is really just a bunch of interconnected systems normally doesn't matter until you get to a gate and are told you can transfer because there is congestion and traffic control won't let you pass. Yes in space they can't hear you scream even when in a traffic jam.
Okay, let's change the myth. This Eve is on one server thing is the real myth. Eve Online is played on one honking big cluster with lots of instanced systems that you have to move to. If anywhere near all of the players normally online (20k to 30k) tried to enter Jita I suspect that Iceland would go up in a cloud of steam from the resulting meltdown. The fact that it is really just a bunch of interconnected systems normally doesn't matter until you get to a gate and are told you can transfer because there is congestion and traffic control won't let you pass. Yes in space they can't hear you scream even when in a traffic jam.
Perhaps I should have said "realm" to represent one logical environment in that I can talk to people regardless of what zone they are in be it Jita, Ours, etc. This isn't a whole lot different then other zoned games that present themselves as having all said zones of the world contained within a realm so there wasn't really any agenda in using the term "server". Aside from that, I think you would be hard pressed to find any modern MMO where a "server" is not in fact a cluster of systems.
Saying Eve is instanced...Now that is the myth! See, we can all do this and go back and forth and sound extra silly in the process. I'm willing to bet we could all make compelling arguments meant to make us sound really smart while still finding something to nitpick about. Ultimately, there are roughly 300k subscribers, whether they be individual people or multi-account holders, that play in one Universe and who have the potential of blowing each other up should the situation arise.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Originally posted by rwmiller Okay, let's change the myth. This Eve is on one server thing is the real myth. Eve Online is played on one honking big cluster with lots of instanced systems that you have to move to. If anywhere near all of the players normally online (20k to 30k) tried to enter Jita I suspect that Iceland would go up in a cloud of steam from the resulting meltdown.
If you're going to nitpick, at least do your homework. Don't just throw around words like "instancing" if you don't know what they mean. Instances in mmos are copies of the same environment. If eve had instances, there'd be several instances of jita. New Eden is hosted on a cluster and features zoning to split the load. The entire thing together, with the database, all the nodes and proxies is the server. Last but not least, tranquility isn't hosted in iceland.
3 x 8 hour shifts at 30k (being nice) players. that is 90k players all around. Now give or take 20k for ones offline that are used for manufacturing, that is 110k at BEST. And a good majority of them are alt accounts. Subtract the trials at say 20k to be nice. and you still have 90k subs.
Dont mistake subscriptions with concurrent user. Any MMO has about 25% active account at any time. That's the reason why you have about 16k account on a WoW server and 4k user limit (which then turns into a login queue).
As such, looking at your 90k number it'd give 360k accounts ...
No MMO out there gives accurate CCU numbers. Why would they?
I'm going to guess CCU is meant to be Concurrent Users? If so, EvE displays how many users are online at the login screen and, being one server it's really the only place you need to look. I mean sure, I guess the number could be inaccurate, but that starts to get into conspiracy theories and what not.
Okay, let's change the myth. This Eve is on one server thing is the real myth. Eve Online is played on one honking big cluster with lots of instanced systems that you have to move to. If anywhere near all of the players normally online (20k to 30k) tried to enter Jita I suspect that Iceland would go up in a cloud of steam from the resulting meltdown.
The fact that it is really just a bunch of interconnected systems normally doesn't matter until you get to a gate and are told you can transfer because there is congestion and traffic control won't let you pass. Yes in space they can't hear you scream even when in a traffic jam.
Christ, now are we getting that stuff again ...
EVE does not have instances, it has zones, the difference being that everyone can go everywhere and kill everyone!
And yes, EVE is not 1 server, it is 1 big shard, in contrast to regular mmo's ( WoW, LOTRO, EQ, ... ) that have many small shards ( which still use more than 1 server to run them, so in essence they are clusters as well ).
I hope we educated some people in the process of this thread
If you want to criticize EVE, use facts, like telling you don't like the slow combat, the skill training system, or the sound system for example.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Comments
On May 6th 2009 CCP anounced (you can easily google this):
"EVE now has over 300,000 active subscriptions (not including trial accounts)"
Nowhere it is implied that they have 300,000 paying customers, it could be 100,000 people each with three active accounts for all that we know. Does it matter?
The number people logging in at any single time has little to do with the real number of paying players. Some keep the subscription while on extended leave or while deployed, not logging for months (I know a few), others log only an hour a day, or only on weekends, others are burnt and only log to change skills until they are ready to come back again. Then there are some who log several hours a day. How many are of each? We just don't know.
And then here are players that are just on a trial account, how many are logged at any given time?
Trying to guess the number of paying customers using the number of people logged in the game is just a guess, and a wild one at that.
When we calculate things like this we think of what we know. You know many people with multiple accounts, I don't. In my previous corp we were 15 people, most of them new players, RL colleagues and friends. Only five of us had more than one account. There are also many players that try the game, play for a few months a leave, never having more than one account. We never hear of them. They don't usually post in the forums, or even join a real corp. We all hear a lot about the very comited players, these are the ones playing in low or nul sec, flying T2, T3 or capital ships, posting in the forums and voting or one of the CSM candidates. These core of players are the minority... in every game, not only EvE. The silent mayority are the ones we never heard of. It is impossible to say how many are out there. We can guess, but that's it, a guess.
So unless you have some way to calculate how many of the logged in players are trials, are casual players, are guys just changing a skill, how many are core players, and how many of those are playing with several accounts simultaneusly, ... well, all you have is a wild guess. That's it.
CCP claims that only a small percentage own two or more accounts. They can see our IPs and in some cases they can see the same card or bank account paying for several accounts. Whatever number they come up with will be much closer to anything any of us may guess.
Jm2€c
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW
You make wild claims, which are alot more invalid than the fact that EVE Online has 300k+ subscriptions ( 301826 in september 09 ) and a Peak Concurrent Users of 53850, reached in March 09 ( went down to 46880 after the Unholy Rage against bots, but is going back up again, with 50873 in september ).
The 300k+ subs excludes the +/- 40k trials, so in total they have around 340k active accounts.
Now, everyone know alot of players have multi accounts, and EVE has probably some more of them than some other MMO's, but claiming it has 75k players at best is just wild guessing and in contradiction to the official 15-20% multi account players number.
If you want to make a point, please try to stick to the facts, otherwise you will be looked at as just another troll or newb.
Please post your facts other then your ramblings. Please show me where CCP shows these numbers. And please point me to where this says individual accounts. You have to understand I am on unemployment right now due to the economy and I play from DT til 1 or 2 am EST . I know what my screen says when I log to switch alts for my cyno pilots. Lets put this in 8 hour shifts shall we.
3 x 8 hour shifts at 30k (being nice) players. that is 90k players all around. Now give or take 20k for ones offline that are used for manufacturing, that is 110k at BEST. And a good majority of them are alt accounts. Subtract the trials at say 20k to be nice. and you still have 90k subs.
CCP gives me their numbers directly thru mail, for my website. ( check my sig ).
But they also periodically publish their numbers if they reach a record. Here is a link :
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3044&tid=
These are active, payed for, subscribers. Well they say subscribers, but if you want to get technical, they are subscriptions, because there are indeed many players that have multiple accounts. And CCP also promotes it with the Power of 2.
So they are not all individual players, what CCP means by subscribers are all payed for subscriptions, and I quote from the mail I got from CCP ( guess you will have to trust me on that one ) :
"I can assure you that the 300k number does not include any trial accounts. Our subscriber number only includes paying subscribers."
Your mistake is taking a wild guess of 90% multi account subscribers, thats what I wanted to point out.
I can't find the 15-20% number, so I'll ask CCP directly and get back to you on that. ( They have good ways to check this using Creditcard and IP-number info ).
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
God I'm glad you finally cleared that up for us.
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
Not that it matters in the least but if we want to make semi-psuedo-scientific estimates based on vague numbers and assumptions we could take the current number of online players (31K) and assuming that some percentage of them are second accounts (for sake of simplicity we will assume the number of players running three, four, five or more accounts at the same time is vanishingly small) we can assume that there are at least 25,000 individuals alive, awake and busy trying to cheat, steal and kill each other in the Eve Universe. With a 23.8/7 availability of a single universe one can assume that at any time and on any day that something less than 100% of the active players will be trying to get on. A rational guess based on nothing at all would be that any specific time of day some where between 10% to 15% of the people possible to play will be playing.
Going with that this means one could reasonably argue that there are between 250,000 and 200,000 unique individuals playing the game. So the second account rate is probably higher than in other games but considering the nature of the game it is neither huge nor unreasonable.
Now everyone go have a cookie.
CCP says EvE has 300K+ subscribers, but I never see any more than 44,000 on at the same time so let's start there - 44K.
Now, everyone has at least one alt, so we'll halve that, (22K) and then halve it again since so many people have more than one alt (11K).
Now, since we know most people quit before their trial is up, we'll assume 2/3 of those are trials (3,666).
Furthermore, making ISK is boring and a task only done by illegal RMT farmers. Of course there's a lot of them, so we'll halve that number again (1,833).
I don't know how many employees CCP has, but I'll estimate it at 600. So we knock off about 1800 for CCP employees + their alts + their alt's alts.
And that leaves us with 33 players. Only the regular forum posters play EvE.
_____________________________________________________________
(*) Calculation stolen from a post by Kessian in the official EvE Forums on 28.06.2009
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW
I do not play this game, but who cares how many actual player there are. You enjoy the game, there are always enough peeps online and CCP get the money off 300k accounts. Everyone wins.
OMG you are right! How could I have gotten the math so wrong with made up numbers? In fact based on that I have deduced that I am in fact a bot myself and now must reboo.........
Just my luck, every time I go mining every player in the game is in the same system as me
right, makes perfect sense because im sure theyre able to fund everything in the already existing game + regular expansions/content + all the advertising they have on the net with just 33 players. of ocurse then again, you must be psychic, after all you know EVERY player has an alt, or actually i guess 2 alts since you halved it twice based on alts. **claps for the special kid** not to mention the fact that you said 44k on at one time.... people arent on 24/7..... you should just put yourself out of your own misery or something, its got to be horribly painful trying to function in life with such a horrid excuse for a brain.
right, makes perfect sense because im sure theyre able to fund everything in the already existing game + regular expansions/content + all the advertising they have on the net with just 33 players. of ocurse then again, you must be psychic, after all you know EVERY player has an alt, or actually i guess 2 alts since you halved it twice based on alts. **claps for the special kid** not to mention the fact that you said 44k on at one time.... people arent on 24/7..... you should just put yourself out of your own misery or something, its got to be horribly painful trying to function in life with such a horrid excuse for a brain.
0_o I mean really? You do realize that Eanok is kidding around right?
But w/e it doesn't matter I am only pointing out that 300k subs are not individuals players. And from personal experience I have only seen roughly 40-50k of players online at any given time. /end
right, makes perfect sense because im sure theyre able to fund everything in the already existing game + regular expansions/content + all the advertising they have on the net with just 33 players. of ocurse then again, you must be psychic, after all you know EVERY player has an alt, or actually i guess 2 alts since you halved it twice based on alts. **claps for the special kid** not to mention the fact that you said 44k on at one time.... people arent on 24/7..... you should just put yourself out of your own misery or something, its got to be horribly painful trying to function in life with such a horrid excuse for a brain.
LMAO
yes kaiser, it is horribly painful, you cannot imagine how difficult it is. I am so glad there is smart people like you guiding the rest of us with your wisdom.
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW
The awesome part of your posts is that the only true and verifiable piece of data you have presented is the 200k number. Every other number you have presented has been or can easily be proven false. Max concurrency, percent of users with multiple accounts, 75k players (50% of the total playerbase regularly online at the same time? HOLY SHIT!)
My favorite, though, was this one:
"At no point in time will you ever see the players currently online break 50k."
Which was posted the same year that record had been broken several times.
"But w/e it doesn't matter I am only pointing out that 300k subs are not individuals players. And from personal experience I have only seen roughly 40-50k of players online at any given time. /end"
You do realize that, by industry averages, the second statement almost proves that there are 300k players.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
OK, so the OP was making a point. Not quite sure why it needed to be made, but I guess in case it wasn't clear to some folks, now they know. EVE doesn't have 300K actual subscribers.
Now, whether they have 75K, 125K or 33 ..... it makes what difference now?
As stated, at any given time there's 25-50K people logged in and playing. If that's not enough for some folks they know what game they should be playing.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
right, makes perfect sense because im sure theyre able to fund everything in the already existing game + regular expansions/content + all the advertising they have on the net with just 33 players. of ocurse then again, you must be psychic, after all you know EVERY player has an alt, or actually i guess 2 alts since you halved it twice based on alts. **claps for the special kid** not to mention the fact that you said 44k on at one time.... people arent on 24/7..... you should just put yourself out of your own misery or something, its got to be horribly painful trying to function in life with such a horrid excuse for a brain.
0_o I mean really? You do realize that Eanok is kidding around right?
But w/e it doesn't matter I am only pointing out that 300k subs are not individuals players. And from personal experience I have only seen roughly 40-50k of players online at any given time. /end
Congrats on a no fucking shit thread. Point made.
Never mind
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW
EvE has the market on crazy flying spaceships... So what does it matter?
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion
No MMO out there gives accurate CCU numbers. Why would they? Some other MMO would just use it against them while claiming they have more, even if they don't. And we, the players, will never know the difference.
I've been playing ROHAN: BLOOD FEUD since it started. Best MMO out there IMO (never been a huge sci fi MMO fan). The servers have never seemed overly full to inhibit my gameplay, but there are tons of players. I'm currently on a new server they just opened up (Tempest) with a re-rolled char. Population is lower, but the economy is better and I enjoy not having to fight for my levelling as much. ROHAN has over 1 million subs. Well they're actually registrants, since there are no subscriptions since the game is free. Does ROHAN seem 4 times as full as Eve? No. But they're different games, and different games are built to sustain and thrive with different numbers of players.
And really, what does it matter? If the game is fun, if you like it, if the number of players isn't too low or too high to make it enjoyable, who cares what that number is?
P.S. I have 2 accounts FWIW
I'm going to guess CCU is meant to be Concurrent Users? If so, EvE displays how many users are online at the login screen and, being one server it's really the only place you need to look. I mean sure, I guess the number could be inaccurate, but that starts to get into conspiracy theories and what not.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
To be honest the total number of subscribers does not matter to me the least, all I know that when I log on there is at least 25-50k unique pilots logged in the game at the same time. And whether or not those players have dual account does not matter to me either.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I'm going to guess CCU is meant to be Concurrent Users? If so, EvE displays how many users are online at the login screen and, being one server it's really the only place you need to look. I mean sure, I guess the number could be inaccurate, but that starts to get into conspiracy theories and what not.
Okay, let's change the myth. This Eve is on one server thing is the real myth. Eve Online is played on one honking big cluster with lots of instanced systems that you have to move to. If anywhere near all of the players normally online (20k to 30k) tried to enter Jita I suspect that Iceland would go up in a cloud of steam from the resulting meltdown.
The fact that it is really just a bunch of interconnected systems normally doesn't matter until you get to a gate and are told you can transfer because there is congestion and traffic control won't let you pass. Yes in space they can't hear you scream even when in a traffic jam.
Perhaps I should have said "realm" to represent one logical environment in that I can talk to people regardless of what zone they are in be it Jita, Ours, etc. This isn't a whole lot different then other zoned games that present themselves as having all said zones of the world contained within a realm so there wasn't really any agenda in using the term "server". Aside from that, I think you would be hard pressed to find any modern MMO where a "server" is not in fact a cluster of systems.
Saying Eve is instanced...Now that is the myth! See, we can all do this and go back and forth and sound extra silly in the process. I'm willing to bet we could all make compelling arguments meant to make us sound really smart while still finding something to nitpick about. Ultimately, there are roughly 300k subscribers, whether they be individual people or multi-account holders, that play in one Universe and who have the potential of blowing each other up should the situation arise.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Source for the less than 20% multi account users:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=461283&page=2#36
A bit old but I doubt the number have changed significantly.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
If you're going to nitpick, at least do your homework.
Don't just throw around words like "instancing" if you don't know what they mean. Instances in mmos are copies of the same environment. If eve had instances, there'd be several instances of jita. New Eden is hosted on a cluster and features zoning to split the load. The entire thing together, with the database, all the nodes and proxies is the server.
Last but not least, tranquility isn't hosted in iceland.
3 x 8 hour shifts at 30k (being nice) players. that is 90k players all around. Now give or take 20k for ones offline that are used for manufacturing, that is 110k at BEST. And a good majority of them are alt accounts. Subtract the trials at say 20k to be nice. and you still have 90k subs.
Dont mistake subscriptions with concurrent user. Any MMO has about 25% active account at any time. That's the reason why you have about 16k account on a WoW server and 4k user limit (which then turns into a login queue).
As such, looking at your 90k number it'd give 360k accounts ...
/Y
I'm going to guess CCU is meant to be Concurrent Users? If so, EvE displays how many users are online at the login screen and, being one server it's really the only place you need to look. I mean sure, I guess the number could be inaccurate, but that starts to get into conspiracy theories and what not.
Okay, let's change the myth. This Eve is on one server thing is the real myth. Eve Online is played on one honking big cluster with lots of instanced systems that you have to move to. If anywhere near all of the players normally online (20k to 30k) tried to enter Jita I suspect that Iceland would go up in a cloud of steam from the resulting meltdown.
The fact that it is really just a bunch of interconnected systems normally doesn't matter until you get to a gate and are told you can transfer because there is congestion and traffic control won't let you pass. Yes in space they can't hear you scream even when in a traffic jam.
Christ, now are we getting that stuff again ...
EVE does not have instances, it has zones, the difference being that everyone can go everywhere and kill everyone!
And yes, EVE is not 1 server, it is 1 big shard, in contrast to regular mmo's ( WoW, LOTRO, EQ, ... ) that have many small shards ( which still use more than 1 server to run them, so in essence they are clusters as well ).
I hope we educated some people in the process of this thread
If you want to criticize EVE, use facts, like telling you don't like the slow combat, the skill training system, or the sound system for example.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online