Well I'm glad my rant was well recieved by most of you. I normally don't do these since they invite a good amount of Tldr people and flamers. Anyway, The reason I tossed this thread up was my brother. See he plays WoW and I just happened to be looking over his shoulder the other day as he was setting to clear that one room 25 man raid they have in the game. Well his guild needed two guys and they happened to invite two rogues to the raid and got them setup in Vent. The two players turned out to be a older husband and wife duo and were pretty awesome while on vent. Anyway as they get summoned to the raid my brother is already on the armory page checking them out. when they get to the raid he mouses over them and check a "gear score" with a add on. They had decent gear but being the complete ass hole he is he requested they be kicked on vent and the GM dropped them. Now he had no idea how good these players were and because he was able to invade these poor players privacy (nice people that only wanted to help anyway) he got to just toss them out on their asses. This kind of pissed me off.
The bullshit people do in these progression item farm pve games fucking blow and I strongly believe people should be able to protect themselves from this type of crap.
Well, Thanks for reading.
Do me a favor. Smack your bro upside the head next time you see him. You can even say Zorvan sent you. lol
Seriously, do more than smack him upside the head for me.
They actually "score" gear now? I was waiting for that cesspool (WoW) to crap out yet another bullshit elitist raid metric.
Just FYI....Blizzard and WoW have nothing to do with the "gear scoring." That little "over all gear score" thing comes from mods like InventoryOnPar (IOP) or GearScore (GS). Yes, WoW still has The Armory, however....it doesn't "score" your gear, but these mods are like insta-calculators that figure in item level of gear, stats, etc. They also may come from WoW Heroes web site, which is another place someone can critique your gear (or if you're so inclined...you can critique your own, even comparing it to someone elses).
People have started using these in the interest of saving time and having to personally look over every item a person is wearing to determine their "usefulness," sadly. I will tell you....it can be pretty soul-crushing after a long day at work, coming home to play, and then getting told that all the gear you've spent so much time working for is useless and no one wants to let you help in any raids. I'm sure that might sound silly, but....yup....after a while, I just said "fuck it," I have better things to do (that are more FUN) than to obsessively chase the latest greatest gear, and so...... "bye bye WoW." I have felt much more content since I left. I don't pay to play a game, to come home and feel MORE STRESS after a stressful day. No thank you.
EDIT: I have to add here....that trying to run extremely high end raids like ToC 25 being under-geared or with others who are under-geared....is also ridiculously stressful and pretty much a guaranteed fail. So I am NOT SAYING that gear doesn't matter. It starts "mattering" at Ulduar 25 (in WoW). You can completely forget about being able to successfully run ToC 25 in greens or blues. You'd get laughed at without mercy if you even THOUGHT you could do that. lol
More importantly.....gear score mods can't gauge a persons ability to listen to directions, cooperate in a group, measure their reflexes or ability to THINK when something goes differently than expected, determine their annoying personality traits, reveal whether they're honest or a ninja looter, or weigh the level of their emotional instability and likelihood to go "bipolar" suddenly during looting or in response to any given thing anyone DOES.
Now....when they come up with a "score mod" that can do all that.....THEN, and only then, would I consider them truly advantageous. (LOL....I'm kinda kidding....but only....a little.)
Funny thing is....these things aren't even very accurate and are totally inconsistent. WoW Heroes give my warlock a gear score of 2390, whereas IOP gives me something lower by like 200 points. I'm not sure if IOP figures in enchants, gems, etc. So whatever "gear score" people are seeing for you....it's nothing more than an estimate, at best.
I honestly don't care who sees my stuff. Or knows what I have. My concern about MMO privacy ranks very low in my life.
These are only videogames and we're on a mmo discussion forum. Obviously in the grand scheme of things mmos mean jack shit.
With that said if a developer is going to give a player all these options to see character advancement, gear and spec then atleast give the option to hide that stuff so asshats don't use it as ammunition.
Want an armory? awesome give me the capabilities to toss the info I want on that page. Want gear, spec, faction standing and pvp stats info as a target>right click option? fine then give a person the capabilities to hide this stuff so they aren't harrassed by douche bags.
"invasion of privacy in mmos." lmao THIS says it all. LMAO .. you OWN.. get that WORD.. OWN NOTHING.. you pay to play .. not to OWN.. OMG I laughed.. Thanks this was great.. OOOH you really need to SEND this info to the DEVS.. of EVERY MMO you can think of.. REALLY I bet they would LOVE to sorry HAHA hear this..
Because they own all digital data that means they cant add a simple option to hide info to keep players from being harassed?
Think about it and reply back and try not to come off as such a prick please.
Well I'm glad my rant was well recieved by most of you. I normally don't do these since they invite a good amount of Tldr people and flamers. Anyway, The reason I tossed this thread up was my brother. See he plays WoW and I just happened to be looking over his shoulder the other day as he was setting to clear that one room 25 man raid they have in the game. Well his guild needed two guys and they happened to invite two rogues to the raid and got them setup in Vent. The two players turned out to be a older husband and wife duo and were pretty awesome while on vent. Anyway as they get summoned to the raid my brother is already on the armory page checking them out. when they get to the raid he mouses over them and check a "gear score" with a add on. They had decent gear but being the complete ass hole he is he requested they be kicked on vent and the GM dropped them. Now he had no idea how good these players were and because he was able to invade these poor players privacy (nice people that only wanted to help anyway) he got to just toss them out on their asses. This kind of pissed me off.
The bullshit people do in these progression item farm pve games fucking blow and I strongly believe people should be able to protect themselves from this type of crap.
Well, Thanks for reading.
Do me a favor. Smack your bro upside the head next time you see him. You can even say Zorvan sent you. lol
Seriously, do more than smack him upside the head for me.
Punch him. In his taint. Hard.
LOL my brother is a cream puff (probably the reason hes a dickhead in game) I would destroy the poor kid. I'm ex-military and i;ve been training MMA, Boxing and was a high school wrestler heh.
He may fall apart and then I would get mother aggro and that my friends is almost as bad as wife aggro.
I honestly don't care who sees my stuff. Or knows what I have. My concern about MMO privacy ranks very low in my life.
These are only videogames and we're on a mmo discussion forum. Obviously in the grand scheme of things mmos mean jack shit.
With that said if a developer is going to give a player all these options to see character advancement, gear and spec then atleast give the option to hide that stuff so asshats don't use it as ammunition.
Want an armory? awesome give me the capabilities to toss the info I want on that page. Want gear, spec, faction standing and pvp stats info as a target>right click option? fine then give a person the capabilities to hide this stuff so they aren't harrassed by douche bags.
Seems like a simple enough request.
That sounds fair enough to me.
I consider any 'privacy violations' in respect to this stuff to be nonsensical since I really do not see a reason for an 'expectation of privacy' in games like this. However, I also believe in giving people choices as long as exercising that choice has no real impact on others. So if people want to hide that info, who am I to try and stop them.
I agree 100%. However, I think if you were a knight I would try to hear rumors about you to see who you've killed and such, but game mechanics that rape your privacy are retarded. Players should have to ask around to try and find out about different characters. That's reputations and mystique evolve, The Armory murders that feeling.
WildStar is like if Ratchet and Clank had a baby with Beyond Good & Evil and that baby was raised by World of Warcraft and Spore and babysat on the weekends by the aliens from Space Jam. It's an ugly bastard worth a few laughs but not much else.
I love being able to turn off viewing detial in Aion. I perfer folks to not judge my playing abilities by how "uber" my gear is. The truth is...any asshat can have the best gear in a MMO if they buy gold or play 20 hours aday. Gear has nothing to do with how well you know your class. Every character in Aion and their gear is listed on aiononline.com so its kinda pointless to block viewing ingame I guess anyway...
It's interesting that few people make a fuss about refusing to take the level 40 into your level 50 dungeon, yet when you create a Gear-based Metric to measure the same thing as level (progression) it's automatically evil and an invasion of privacy!
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
It's called saving time. If you're a warrior wearing "spell power" gear or some stupid crap I don't want your dumb ass in my group. And speaking of WoW in general I see so many awful talent builds I want to ask them "are you smoking crack?" sometimes. But I do agree with the achievment thing. Just because you haven't beat a boss doesn't mean you can't with the right group of people.
This.
If you want to go play football but you tell the coach that he can't see how fast you can run because that's your private information, guess what? You don't play. People don't want to waste time with "bad" players. Now, obviously, the definition of "bad" is broad. However, with Blizzard's over-dependence on gear, "bad" can include players with sub-par gear. No matter how good they are, they are physically incapable of doing more than their gear permits. Why? Because Blizzard designed it that way. They may be doing the best they can, but their best may not cut it for the Raid.
I also agree, though, that judging by Achievements is stupid. But this is why Guilds are the best route to PvE completion (good Guilds, anyways). My Hunter didn't do any raids besides Naxx and he was slightly under-geared. But my Guild understood and they let me raid in Ulduar. Did they carry me? No, I did my part. But they were already in ToC and they were so over-geared that we completed the Raid pretty painlessly, despite my lacking DPS. And I got geared, and moved on to ToC, got geared there, and now am waiting for Icecrown Citadel. I didn't have any Achievements, either, but now I have a bunch of shiny ones from killing those Ulduar and ToC bosses. PUGs are a different thing altogether - it's natural to expect there will be methods of judging your groupmates if you're in a PUG because you don't really know them, unlike your Guildmates. Those methods include stats, gear, and (unfortunately) Achievements.
Look on the bright side, though. Most of the WoW players I've talked to have said that they'd prefer a skilled under-geared player than a stupid kid who bought his super elite, fully-geared toon on eBay and doesn't know that you're not supposed to cast Misdirect on the Priest (giggle). I understand your argument OP, but for the sake of team-based activities, at least, I think this "invasion of privacy" is to be expected.
I disagree, I find people hiding their stuff stupid . PERIOD.
QUESTION: Quote: Originally Posted by Xridnasa: - What's a "grocery store"? Is that like McDonald's? - ANSWER: Quote: Originally Posted by sidimazz: - Kind of, just without the rapist.
OK rant time. I hate invasion of privacy in mmos. I hate inspections, I hate that every pos asshat needs to see what i've done in game before hand. From WoW to Eve some dickhead wants to see my stuff! Well it's mine (or atleast until you kill me for it). Dont ask what i've done, dont try to find out my spec, my skill training its all personal information. Don't look at the stats on my gear, fuck!!!! I don't even want you to know what my class or skill template is!!! The less you know about what I do in my video game the better. All of these asshat programs like WoWs gear score and stupid fucking armory's are so lame. Why do you need to know? If i was a knight would you walk up to me and tap on my armor to see its thickness or check how sharp my blade is? would you ask around and see who I killed? no of course not because if you touch or even ask about my stuff I would kill your ass. A lot of these developers think their delivering a service to players by publishing information of every ones characters on the net, taking away players privacy. Giving the elitist pricks ammo to be even bigger douche bags. I work hard for my stuff and instead of using crappy mechanics to sneak a peak at my stuff or achievements in a game maybe you could be a god damn human being and get to know me first and just ask. Its pretty simple imo. "hey what dungeons have you beaten?" FU! Hey whats your Api? FU! Hey Why are you using that spec? FU!!!
Its all bullshit and I hate it. I tell my friends and decent people that are willing to socialize what spec I am or what im training and what adventures i've been on. some ass hat that wouldn't give me the time of day shouldnt be able to just right click me and see my shit or visit a site and pre judge my gaming capabilities. So I say fuck the man! and no!!! You can't see my stuff!!!!!!!!!!
*Rant off*
I F'ing love this post.....great rant , I agree 100%!!!
Look on the bright side, though. Most of the WoW players I've talked to have said that they'd prefer a skilled under-geared player than a stupid kid who bought his super elite, fully-geared toon on eBay and doesn't know that you're not supposed to cast Misdirect on the Priest (giggle). I understand your argument OP, but for the sake of team-based activities, at least, I think this "invasion of privacy" is to be expected.
I think the thinking WoW players would agree, but there are plenty of players out there who use the shorthand of gear and achievements to judge a player overall, and yes, it's very possible to find a well geared player who is a wipe magnet in a raid, because they haven't the slightest clue how to play their class.
Which may be why they fall back on achievements, but it's very possible that the puppetmaster pulling the strings of some well geared, achievement laden toon has no clue how to play it because that puppetmaster wasn't pulling the strings on the toon when it got all that gear and all those achievements.
SWG had this problem bigtime prior to the NGE, when getting a Jedi took a great deal of grinding to accomplish, and plenty of players went the Ebay route (the easy path, which of course leads to the Dark Side..), got themselves a glowstick boy, and proceeded to embarass themselves by having no clue as to how to play the toon.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
While I see what you are saying, I couldn't disagree more when it comes to certain things.
For many encounters in games, if you are in lower level gear, for an end game encounter, you hurt the entire group. If you are pugging it (IE not with your guild/friends) You are most likely there for loot. You want this loot, you believe you are entitled to it, yet dying, doing bad dps, letting others die, losing aggro while tanking is okay, since you are undergeared? You wish to get items/rewards, while the rest of the group struggles because you couldn't talk to someone of your class that you know, or check a website, or inspect another player and get ideas, or even try to get gear from easier ways?
I know many of you will completely ignore me as some super elitist who hates you for being casual... but I am pretty casual.
You mention I should get to know you, that I should not check your gear, your achievement, your spec, your talents, your enchants, etc. How should I get to know you if I am pugging a raid instance right than? How am I to know that you, pug#19082731092783 is better or worse than the person asking me in a tell, pug#109827430784? Because you said so?
In the past month or so in wow and lotro, more so wow, it's much easier to know the person I am inviting is not just so terrible. That's great, you want to try a different spec, you have lower level gear that isn't terrible. But do you move out of the fire? Do you know when to taunt and when to kite? Do you know when to queue a big heal before the tank gets hit for a ton? Knowing that they can spend 5 minutes looking on a website, or god forbid, asking someone they see, about specs/talents/gear/etc and yet I am supposed to guess who might have done that? Or which is better.
Now, I know. Some people have great gear and are terrible players. I see it all the time. I see people in bad gear ( usually alts) who are great. But until you and any other people that might label me an elitist, or anyone else that see this as something good, find a way to measure a persons skill in whatever you are doing, be it an instance, quests, raiding, pvp, etc, a system like currently in wow, is the best there is.
This just applies to pugging. If you are doing things with friends/guildys that you know are good, that is something different. You know them. Some of you feel that inviting anyone to your raid, that you are leading, comprised entirely of pugs, is perfectly acceptable to wipe over and over because those pugs are terrible players, in bad gear, and don't know what to do? I don't enjoy wiping over and over. I don't care to watch my dps stand in the fire. I hate to see a healer with full mana let a tank die. This isn't elitism, this isn't me being a bitch. This is me not wanting to bend over backwards for some random person that is bad, and gear them out, when they are not a friend, or guildy, or something I want in the guild or anything.
The harder end game stuff does take gear. It does take coordination. It does take people who aren't key boarding turning the entire time. This again, is not some elitism attitude. That's just how the encounters are, at least in wow. There are plenty of easier things, before these end game instances such as Naxx, VoA, Onyxia, OS all in 10/25 man versions that gear hardly matters (maybe VoA needs some) and also TotC5, heroics, that no one cares about. If you do these easier things before you try to do the newest hardest stuff, you won't have a problem.
Hmmm...never had the experience myself...but...I would have to agree...it should all be private and only found out about upon the players own divulgence or through a duel with the character...I suppose in a game where PVP is played this is an important issue.
Getting old is mandatory...growing up is optional.
Would you be happy if they could see that it is a Haelifur's Sword of DweomerFire, but couldnt see what stats it has? Because I can see your point on the stats, but totally disagree if you are saying that I shouldnt even be able to see what you wield. If you have it out, I should be able to see it. Having the actual name on it is a requirement based on the fact that no graphic engine is advanced enough to distinguish all visible items (armor and weapon and jewelry) just by looks alone.
This is really an indictment on the ridiculous (my opinion only) raid system.
Having to constantly raid to the extent that it is impossible to get to know any of the players (in terms of skill/gear/spec) speaks of an anti-community stance.
Monotonous gear hunting endgame where any challenge is put on a spreadsheet and figured out to the last column until a 95% success rate is established. Ugh
Being able to view another player's equipped items does allow players to see whether or not that player that just rolled actually has the item equipped if its a need before greed roll. I don't personally care about it that much, but would be upset if someone rolled on an item just to sell it, if a friend of mine in the group could use it.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
after a while, I just said "fuck it," I have better things to do (that are more FUN) than to obsessively chase the latest greatest gear, and so...... "bye bye WoW." I have felt much more content since I left. I don't pay to play a game, to come home and feel MORE STRESS after a stressful day. No thank you.
Eh, nobody said that was the only thing to do in the game. I don't enlessly chase gear and I'm still having fun doing other things. Hell, I've never even been to Kharazan. I don't think I've raided seriously since AQ. Its only one aspect of the game. And honestly, what do you really care what a couple stat-crunching butt munchers think about your gear or you as a player or a person?
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I'm sorry but I don't understand this. I've NEVER understood this, not in EQ 1, not in WoW, and not now. I remember inspecting people in EQ one and they'd actuallyl get mad at me because I didn't ask first, I usually hear something like "Excuse me rude person...". Like dude ...it's a GAME. Why do you care what other people think of your items? As if owning a level 1 short sword makes you a noob IRL...common. And if random people inquiring about your character bothers you so much you can just use /ignore on them.
I really don't care about the privacy thing. What annoys me is the elitists pricks telling me my gear is inadequate, when it is more then sufficient for heroic dungeons. That's exactly what my gear is for!
I apologize for not spending every waking minute of my life to do raids to be over-geared for heroics /sarcasm
I really don't care about the privacy thing. What annoys me is the elitists pricks telling me my gear is inadequate, when it is more then sufficient for heroic dungeons. That's exactly what my gear is for! I apologize for not spending every waking minute of my life to do raids to be over-geared for heroics /sarcasm
Well thats the whole point of the thread. I wouldnt give a shit if people wanted to see my stuff if there weren't asshats that used it as epeen ammunition.
Its not really the mechanic thats the problem its the god damn players.
With that said is it the developers fault that the players of their game use a feature to harass people? No not at first.
Over time though they should react to things like this, we see it all the time when Devs take things away like Global chats that are used to flame the hell out of people.
Devs should understand their playerbase and react accordingly.
I'm skipping the majority of posts to throw in my simple idea (and no I don't apologize if it's already been said).
There should be a skill set in game that allows one to be able to recognize the power of gear. Similar to how some people could recognize the stats of various equipment (weapons, body armor, etc) just by knowing what it is.
I really don't care about the privacy thing. What annoys me is the elitists pricks telling me my gear is inadequate, when it is more then sufficient for heroic dungeons. That's exactly what my gear is for! I apologize for not spending every waking minute of my life to do raids to be over-geared for heroics /sarcasm
Well thats the whole point of the thread. I wouldnt give a shit if people wanted to see my stuff if there weren't asshats that used it as epeen ammunition.
Its not really the mechanic thats the problem its the god damn players.
With that said is it the developers fault that the players of their game use a feature to harass people? No not at first.
Over time though they should react to things like this, we see it all the time when Devs take things away like Global chats that are used to flame the hell out of people.
Devs should understand their playerbase and react accordingly.
The taking away of global chats is probably the stupidest and laziest thing you can do in a situation like this. It merely punishes the good, normal players for the actions of the jerks. If you do not want assholes spamming crap on public channels then you should monitor them better rather than taking away an important social tool from other players.
The ability to inspect other people is a great tool for learning about gear choices and just satisfying curiosity. I do not see any privacy issue in this at all since it is not private infomration in any rational sense of the word. The problem is jerks who use it as a 'weapon' against other players which is even more stupid because it is such a meaningless information unless you are in a direct discussion of gear choices.
Comments
Do me a favor. Smack your bro upside the head next time you see him. You can even say Zorvan sent you. lol
Seriously, do more than smack him upside the head for me.
Punch him. In his taint. Hard.
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
Just FYI....Blizzard and WoW have nothing to do with the "gear scoring." That little "over all gear score" thing comes from mods like InventoryOnPar (IOP) or GearScore (GS). Yes, WoW still has The Armory, however....it doesn't "score" your gear, but these mods are like insta-calculators that figure in item level of gear, stats, etc. They also may come from WoW Heroes web site, which is another place someone can critique your gear (or if you're so inclined...you can critique your own, even comparing it to someone elses).
People have started using these in the interest of saving time and having to personally look over every item a person is wearing to determine their "usefulness," sadly. I will tell you....it can be pretty soul-crushing after a long day at work, coming home to play, and then getting told that all the gear you've spent so much time working for is useless and no one wants to let you help in any raids. I'm sure that might sound silly, but....yup....after a while, I just said "fuck it," I have better things to do (that are more FUN) than to obsessively chase the latest greatest gear, and so...... "bye bye WoW." I have felt much more content since I left. I don't pay to play a game, to come home and feel MORE STRESS after a stressful day. No thank you.
EDIT: I have to add here....that trying to run extremely high end raids like ToC 25 being under-geared or with others who are under-geared....is also ridiculously stressful and pretty much a guaranteed fail. So I am NOT SAYING that gear doesn't matter. It starts "mattering" at Ulduar 25 (in WoW). You can completely forget about being able to successfully run ToC 25 in greens or blues. You'd get laughed at without mercy if you even THOUGHT you could do that. lol
More importantly.....gear score mods can't gauge a persons ability to listen to directions, cooperate in a group, measure their reflexes or ability to THINK when something goes differently than expected, determine their annoying personality traits, reveal whether they're honest or a ninja looter, or weigh the level of their emotional instability and likelihood to go "bipolar" suddenly during looting or in response to any given thing anyone DOES.
Now....when they come up with a "score mod" that can do all that.....THEN, and only then, would I consider them truly advantageous. (LOL....I'm kinda kidding....but only....a little.)
Funny thing is....these things aren't even very accurate and are totally inconsistent. WoW Heroes give my warlock a gear score of 2390, whereas IOP gives me something lower by like 200 points. I'm not sure if IOP figures in enchants, gems, etc. So whatever "gear score" people are seeing for you....it's nothing more than an estimate, at best.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
These are only videogames and we're on a mmo discussion forum. Obviously in the grand scheme of things mmos mean jack shit.
With that said if a developer is going to give a player all these options to see character advancement, gear and spec then atleast give the option to hide that stuff so asshats don't use it as ammunition.
Want an armory? awesome give me the capabilities to toss the info I want on that page. Want gear, spec, faction standing and pvp stats info as a target>right click option? fine then give a person the capabilities to hide this stuff so they aren't harrassed by douche bags.
Seems like a simple enough request.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Because they own all digital data that means they cant add a simple option to hide info to keep players from being harassed?
Think about it and reply back and try not to come off as such a prick please.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Do me a favor. Smack your bro upside the head next time you see him. You can even say Zorvan sent you. lol
Seriously, do more than smack him upside the head for me.
Punch him. In his taint. Hard.
LOL my brother is a cream puff (probably the reason hes a dickhead in game) I would destroy the poor kid. I'm ex-military and i;ve been training MMA, Boxing and was a high school wrestler heh.
He may fall apart and then I would get mother aggro and that my friends is almost as bad as wife aggro.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
These are only videogames and we're on a mmo discussion forum. Obviously in the grand scheme of things mmos mean jack shit.
With that said if a developer is going to give a player all these options to see character advancement, gear and spec then atleast give the option to hide that stuff so asshats don't use it as ammunition.
Want an armory? awesome give me the capabilities to toss the info I want on that page. Want gear, spec, faction standing and pvp stats info as a target>right click option? fine then give a person the capabilities to hide this stuff so they aren't harrassed by douche bags.
Seems like a simple enough request.
That sounds fair enough to me.
I consider any 'privacy violations' in respect to this stuff to be nonsensical since I really do not see a reason for an 'expectation of privacy' in games like this. However, I also believe in giving people choices as long as exercising that choice has no real impact on others. So if people want to hide that info, who am I to try and stop them.
I agree 100%. However, I think if you were a knight I would try to hear rumors about you to see who you've killed and such, but game mechanics that rape your privacy are retarded. Players should have to ask around to try and find out about different characters. That's reputations and mystique evolve, The Armory murders that feeling.
WildStar is like if Ratchet and Clank had a baby with Beyond Good & Evil and that baby was raised by World of Warcraft and Spore and babysat on the weekends by the aliens from Space Jam. It's an ugly bastard worth a few laughs but not much else.
I love being able to turn off viewing detial in Aion. I perfer folks to not judge my playing abilities by how "uber" my gear is. The truth is...any asshat can have the best gear in a MMO if they buy gold or play 20 hours aday. Gear has nothing to do with how well you know your class. Every character in Aion and their gear is listed on aiononline.com so its kinda pointless to block viewing ingame I guess anyway...
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
It's interesting that few people make a fuss about refusing to take the level 40 into your level 50 dungeon, yet when you create a Gear-based Metric to measure the same thing as level (progression) it's automatically evil and an invasion of privacy!
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
This.
If you want to go play football but you tell the coach that he can't see how fast you can run because that's your private information, guess what? You don't play. People don't want to waste time with "bad" players. Now, obviously, the definition of "bad" is broad. However, with Blizzard's over-dependence on gear, "bad" can include players with sub-par gear. No matter how good they are, they are physically incapable of doing more than their gear permits. Why? Because Blizzard designed it that way. They may be doing the best they can, but their best may not cut it for the Raid.
I also agree, though, that judging by Achievements is stupid. But this is why Guilds are the best route to PvE completion (good Guilds, anyways). My Hunter didn't do any raids besides Naxx and he was slightly under-geared. But my Guild understood and they let me raid in Ulduar. Did they carry me? No, I did my part. But they were already in ToC and they were so over-geared that we completed the Raid pretty painlessly, despite my lacking DPS. And I got geared, and moved on to ToC, got geared there, and now am waiting for Icecrown Citadel. I didn't have any Achievements, either, but now I have a bunch of shiny ones from killing those Ulduar and ToC bosses. PUGs are a different thing altogether - it's natural to expect there will be methods of judging your groupmates if you're in a PUG because you don't really know them, unlike your Guildmates. Those methods include stats, gear, and (unfortunately) Achievements.
Look on the bright side, though. Most of the WoW players I've talked to have said that they'd prefer a skilled under-geared player than a stupid kid who bought his super elite, fully-geared toon on eBay and doesn't know that you're not supposed to cast Misdirect on the Priest (giggle). I understand your argument OP, but for the sake of team-based activities, at least, I think this "invasion of privacy" is to be expected.
I disagree, I find people hiding their stuff stupid . PERIOD.
QUESTION:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xridnasa:
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What's a "grocery store"? Is that like McDonald's?
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ANSWER:
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Originally Posted by sidimazz:
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Kind of, just without the rapist.
I think the thinking WoW players would agree, but there are plenty of players out there who use the shorthand of gear and achievements to judge a player overall, and yes, it's very possible to find a well geared player who is a wipe magnet in a raid, because they haven't the slightest clue how to play their class.
Which may be why they fall back on achievements, but it's very possible that the puppetmaster pulling the strings of some well geared, achievement laden toon has no clue how to play it because that puppetmaster wasn't pulling the strings on the toon when it got all that gear and all those achievements.
SWG had this problem bigtime prior to the NGE, when getting a Jedi took a great deal of grinding to accomplish, and plenty of players went the Ebay route (the easy path, which of course leads to the Dark Side..), got themselves a glowstick boy, and proceeded to embarass themselves by having no clue as to how to play the toon.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
While I see what you are saying, I couldn't disagree more when it comes to certain things.
For many encounters in games, if you are in lower level gear, for an end game encounter, you hurt the entire group. If you are pugging it (IE not with your guild/friends) You are most likely there for loot. You want this loot, you believe you are entitled to it, yet dying, doing bad dps, letting others die, losing aggro while tanking is okay, since you are undergeared? You wish to get items/rewards, while the rest of the group struggles because you couldn't talk to someone of your class that you know, or check a website, or inspect another player and get ideas, or even try to get gear from easier ways?
I know many of you will completely ignore me as some super elitist who hates you for being casual... but I am pretty casual.
You mention I should get to know you, that I should not check your gear, your achievement, your spec, your talents, your enchants, etc. How should I get to know you if I am pugging a raid instance right than? How am I to know that you, pug#19082731092783 is better or worse than the person asking me in a tell, pug#109827430784? Because you said so?
In the past month or so in wow and lotro, more so wow, it's much easier to know the person I am inviting is not just so terrible. That's great, you want to try a different spec, you have lower level gear that isn't terrible. But do you move out of the fire? Do you know when to taunt and when to kite? Do you know when to queue a big heal before the tank gets hit for a ton? Knowing that they can spend 5 minutes looking on a website, or god forbid, asking someone they see, about specs/talents/gear/etc and yet I am supposed to guess who might have done that? Or which is better.
Now, I know. Some people have great gear and are terrible players. I see it all the time. I see people in bad gear ( usually alts) who are great. But until you and any other people that might label me an elitist, or anyone else that see this as something good, find a way to measure a persons skill in whatever you are doing, be it an instance, quests, raiding, pvp, etc, a system like currently in wow, is the best there is.
This just applies to pugging. If you are doing things with friends/guildys that you know are good, that is something different. You know them. Some of you feel that inviting anyone to your raid, that you are leading, comprised entirely of pugs, is perfectly acceptable to wipe over and over because those pugs are terrible players, in bad gear, and don't know what to do? I don't enjoy wiping over and over. I don't care to watch my dps stand in the fire. I hate to see a healer with full mana let a tank die. This isn't elitism, this isn't me being a bitch. This is me not wanting to bend over backwards for some random person that is bad, and gear them out, when they are not a friend, or guildy, or something I want in the guild or anything.
The harder end game stuff does take gear. It does take coordination. It does take people who aren't key boarding turning the entire time. This again, is not some elitism attitude. That's just how the encounters are, at least in wow. There are plenty of easier things, before these end game instances such as Naxx, VoA, Onyxia, OS all in 10/25 man versions that gear hardly matters (maybe VoA needs some) and also TotC5, heroics, that no one cares about. If you do these easier things before you try to do the newest hardest stuff, you won't have a problem.
Hmmm...never had the experience myself...but...I would have to agree...it should all be private and only found out about upon the players own divulgence or through a duel with the character...I suppose in a game where PVP is played this is an important issue.
Getting old is mandatory...growing up is optional.
Would you be happy if they could see that it is a Haelifur's Sword of DweomerFire, but couldnt see what stats it has? Because I can see your point on the stats, but totally disagree if you are saying that I shouldnt even be able to see what you wield. If you have it out, I should be able to see it. Having the actual name on it is a requirement based on the fact that no graphic engine is advanced enough to distinguish all visible items (armor and weapon and jewelry) just by looks alone.
This is really an indictment on the ridiculous (my opinion only) raid system.
Having to constantly raid to the extent that it is impossible to get to know any of the players (in terms of skill/gear/spec) speaks of an anti-community stance.
Monotonous gear hunting endgame where any challenge is put on a spreadsheet and figured out to the last column until a 95% success rate is established. Ugh
(hyperbole is presented free of charge)
Being able to view another player's equipped items does allow players to see whether or not that player that just rolled actually has the item equipped if its a need before greed roll. I don't personally care about it that much, but would be upset if someone rolled on an item just to sell it, if a friend of mine in the group could use it.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Eh, nobody said that was the only thing to do in the game. I don't enlessly chase gear and I'm still having fun doing other things. Hell, I've never even been to Kharazan. I don't think I've raided seriously since AQ. Its only one aspect of the game. And honestly, what do you really care what a couple stat-crunching butt munchers think about your gear or you as a player or a person?
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I'm sorry but I don't understand this. I've NEVER understood this, not in EQ 1, not in WoW, and not now. I remember inspecting people in EQ one and they'd actuallyl get mad at me because I didn't ask first, I usually hear something like "Excuse me rude person...". Like dude ...it's a GAME. Why do you care what other people think of your items? As if owning a level 1 short sword makes you a noob IRL...common. And if random people inquiring about your character bothers you so much you can just use /ignore on them.
I really don't care about the privacy thing. What annoys me is the elitists pricks telling me my gear is inadequate, when it is more then sufficient for heroic dungeons. That's exactly what my gear is for!
I apologize for not spending every waking minute of my life to do raids to be over-geared for heroics /sarcasm
Well thats the whole point of the thread. I wouldnt give a shit if people wanted to see my stuff if there weren't asshats that used it as epeen ammunition.
Its not really the mechanic thats the problem its the god damn players.
With that said is it the developers fault that the players of their game use a feature to harass people? No not at first.
Over time though they should react to things like this, we see it all the time when Devs take things away like Global chats that are used to flame the hell out of people.
Devs should understand their playerbase and react accordingly.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Seriously, its never been the majority of players that were like that - even in wow. Its only ever been a few.
I'm skipping the majority of posts to throw in my simple idea (and no I don't apologize if it's already been said).
There should be a skill set in game that allows one to be able to recognize the power of gear. Similar to how some people could recognize the stats of various equipment (weapons, body armor, etc) just by knowing what it is.
I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.
Well thats the whole point of the thread. I wouldnt give a shit if people wanted to see my stuff if there weren't asshats that used it as epeen ammunition.
Its not really the mechanic thats the problem its the god damn players.
With that said is it the developers fault that the players of their game use a feature to harass people? No not at first.
Over time though they should react to things like this, we see it all the time when Devs take things away like Global chats that are used to flame the hell out of people.
Devs should understand their playerbase and react accordingly.
The taking away of global chats is probably the stupidest and laziest thing you can do in a situation like this. It merely punishes the good, normal players for the actions of the jerks. If you do not want assholes spamming crap on public channels then you should monitor them better rather than taking away an important social tool from other players.
The ability to inspect other people is a great tool for learning about gear choices and just satisfying curiosity. I do not see any privacy issue in this at all since it is not private infomration in any rational sense of the word. The problem is jerks who use it as a 'weapon' against other players which is even more stupid because it is such a meaningless information unless you are in a direct discussion of gear choices.