I'm only responding to the question.. the answer is yes..
And not only are they ruin the game for themselves, they are wasting there life in the same manor of an alcholoic or a drug addict.. and any hardcore gamer who "breaks free" of it will tell you the same. WHich is there own personal choice, but most Hardcore gaming addicts will not realise what they are doing to themselves until that addiction is in the past, or atleast being fed in moderation.
Answer is yes, but it's their money, their time, their choice. We have no right to criticize other people for doing what makes games fun for them, and vice versa.
I used to be hardcore back in EQ1 days, but it was by choice, by addiction, and I had an awesome time playing long hours and doing all the things that people today wouldn't imagine to be fun. Those days are long gone, I play more casual these days. But the key thing is I still have fun.
They race through all of the content complaining that it is too easy or too grindy, then once the get to endgame they complain that there isn't enough content.
They prettymuch crash and burn and it seems like they play games more to bitch about what the game isn't, could have been, should have been, used to be and what they want it to be than play for fun.
Yes. They race through all of the content complaining that it is too easy or too grindy, then once the get to endgame they complain that there isn't enough content. They prettymuch crash and burn and it seems like they play games more to bitch about what the game isn't, could have been, should have been, used to be and what they want it to be than play for fun.
Exactly....you hit it dead on imo. Which is why this website is full of people that do nothing but complain and biatch about new MMOs coming out. IMO most of these folks should stop playing MMOs and move on with their lives...as the saying goes "you only live once". But who am I to tell them whats best for them...lol
Yes. They race through all of the content complaining that it is too easy or too grindy, then once the get to endgame they complain that there isn't enough content. They prettymuch crash and burn and it seems like they play games more to bitch about what the game isn't, could have been, should have been, used to be and what they want it to be than play for fun.
To be fair, hardcore gamers are the first to experience buggy content and crash burn them. This allows the devs to tweak content that otherwise would not have been tested, so the rest of the folks can enjoy them mostly bug-free and tweak-ready. You can hate them, but they serve a purpose.
Indeed they do ruin the game for themselves. Rushing to quickly through content, then whining about lack of endgame. Or being too critical of this or that. All in all they eventually ruin the game for themselves. Mind you though, not all hardcore gamers are like that.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed: And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!" ~Lord George Gordon Byron
I've noticed that hardcore gamers tend to be the most passionate about mmorpgs, which of course is what makes them consider themselves hardcore. They study everything about a particular game, download maps, analyze strategies, and buy multiple accounts. They want to be the first to accomplish something ingame. They can give you percentages of ratios in regards to how one piece of armor affects the dps, str, wis, int, whatever of another piece of equipment. Most of the time I don't know what they are talking about. When I play an mmorpg, I just want to know what's on the other side of that hill. I want to have a story with somekind of thought put into it. I want to be able to work with other people to save a kingdom, or defeat the dragon, monster, ultimate evil, whatever. For me, it's about being part of a community of people that "live" and work together in this virtual world and immmersing yourself in said world. It's like being an active participant in a good book. For some hardcore gamers, it becomes less about the adventure and wander of a new world to explore, than a breakdown and study of the mmorpgs game mechanics. They want to be the first and only ones to beat that dragon. It's less about being part of a community than being number one. In doing that, they study the game so much in order to dominate other gamers that any real joy they get isn't in the game itself but in "pwnin nubs". Pretty soon, that gets boring. They bash the game and move on to the next upcoming game with all the zeal and passion they heaped into the first one. It reminds me of the classic Leroy Jenkins clip. They're all planning the raid, doing "number crunches" and sounding bored as hell, when Leroy just runs in, trains everything and gets everyone killed. He was the only one that was trying to have fun. They sounded like bored office workers discussing paper clips.
Highlighted red is what I personaly feel is a hardcore player with MMORPG's, the rest what you said about hardcore I do not consider those people hardcore at all. I am that harcore player which I highlighted red.
Not sure why you would consider handholders to be hardcore...
Hardcore players also do not bash games and hop from one game to the other, as to me hardcore players are devoted players that make the most of what they are able to see/get/play unlike those people who try to play promises instead of a actual game delivered. I mean a player that needs maps or downloads them isn't hardcore in anyway or form but as said just a handhold player that seem unable to find his/her way on his/her own, definitly not hardcore in my book as to me a hardcore player will find out everything on his own or with his friends/clan/guild. I'll even say it that type of hardcore player who will MAKE these maps for those who need their handshold, not the other way around........
See my definition in Harcore seems to be very different from the views of many on this site as you seem to see it in the oposite way.
So to answer your topic title: No it aint the hardcore in my definition that ruin it but mainly the unexperianced or handholders that ruin parts of this genre. Harcore in this genre are the helpfull kind as said in my definition
Hardcore can be disected and placed into several different catagories, and all things considered it is in the eyes of the person on what they deem as hardcore.
What i personally deem as hardcore is someone who burns through the content as quick as possible and then moans and groans about it later, usually causing dissention on the game's forums. I know i posted about this early in the thread but i want to expand on it.
I can be considered hard core because i demand to play every class and every race available. I demand to see it and do it all, just not in a pants on fire fashion that so many people exhibit.
In the early days of eq1, i would say i definately played 30+ hours a week. That is a lot. I played for about 8 years. In that time i only managed to get ONE character to max level (for a short period, they raised the cap again and i didn't continue). In all that time, i didn't care that i wasn't max level. I didn't care that i had mediocre gear in most other people's eyes.
I just loved playing the game. I loved playing on my variety of alts spread across multiple accounts.
The key to my successful fun factor i think is that i took my sweet ass time and truly explored and played in just about every area out there.
Part of the problem lies in the vocal minority. They tend to have the loudest voice and spread ill will on multiple forums. I am sure this scares mmo devs to a degree, as they just don't want to see any bad press out there for their product. Period. So they cater to the hardcores, the ones that burn through their content and wind up making expansion after broken untested expansion.
As for death penalties and travel times and xp grinds and quest grinds and equipment rots, etc etc etc this is completely up to the mmo developer. As a user, you can either choose to put up with their rules or play something else. Somewhere along the way a mentality was born that the user felt they had the right to demand fundamental changes to a games rules. Sadly somewhere in time game developers started vocally changing things based on public opinion. This takes control away from the developer and creates an atmosphere of misstrust where certain groups of users feel their pleas are being ignored while others are dutifully cared for.
The customer is not always right.
Now i am not against mmo developers taking public opinion into the strategy when making game changes, the key is for them to do it quietly and without giving the users any credit. Just make it happen.
anyways, i truly think the content burners are horribly bad for mmo's.
I've noticed that hardcore gamers tend to be the most passionate about mmorpgs, which of course is what makes them consider themselves hardcore. They study everything about a particular game, download maps, analyze strategies, and buy multiple accounts. They want to be the first to accomplish something ingame. They can give you percentages of ratios in regards to how one piece of armor affects the dps, str, wis, int, whatever of another piece of equipment. Most of the time I don't know what they are talking about. When I play an mmorpg, I just want to know what's on the other side of that hill. I want to have a story with somekind of thought put into it. I want to be able to work with other people to save a kingdom, or defeat the dragon, monster, ultimate evil, whatever. For me, it's about being part of a community of people that "live" and work together in this virtual world and immmersing yourself in said world. It's like being an active participant in a good book. For some hardcore gamers, it becomes less about the adventure and wander of a new world to explore, than a breakdown and study of the mmorpgs game mechanics. They want to be the first and only ones to beat that dragon. It's less about being part of a community than being number one. In doing that, they study the game so much in order to dominate other gamers that any real joy they get isn't in the game itself but in "pwnin nubs". Pretty soon, that gets boring. They bash the game and move on to the next upcoming game with all the zeal and passion they heaped into the first one. It reminds me of the classic Leroy Jenkins clip. They're all planning the raid, doing "number crunches" and sounding bored as hell, when Leroy just runs in, trains everything and gets everyone killed. He was the only one that was trying to have fun. They sounded like bored office workers discussing paper clips.
You're right but don't think poorly of them.
The hardcore gamer values their ability to excel in online games. Why? This is because they may see nothing else unique about themselves and as a result their online performance is directly attached to their self-esteem.
People tend to see them as angry or defensive. This is either due to real life circumstances or numerous online negative interaction from other players constantly insulting them for playing too much and not having enough of a life or out of jealousy for outperformaning them.
The continous negative interaction begins to influence their perceptions of reality and they'll start to hold a strong belief that almost all people are irrational and/or crazy. To protect themselves, they became very defensive and guarded to avoid potentially negative interaction with people. Or they become very rude to push others away for the same reason.
This is essentially the "Casual vs. Hardcore" debate.
The reality of it all is that people want to feel as though they have something unique or special about themselves to justify the reason that they should be. Something only they can do or something only they have. This is why people look for areas they excel and then capitalize on them. You can find it in many aspects of your life such as your job, love life, hobby (such as gaming!) or other outlit. It gives a person a sense of value. This is very important because people that lack this tend to suffer from depression and may later become suicidal.
Having said that, hardcore gamers aren't bad people like most prefer to think. They are people just like you or me but they may not be in a good place right now. And as far as an outlit goes, much better then doing drugs or something far worse then sitting infront of a computer screen.
The hardcore label is so overused and there are so many definitions of what a hardcore gamer is I just think its too broad of a term.
Ive been called a hardcore gamer yet I have never been one to rush to the end game. I dont intentinally skip content, I dont care about percentages in survival when attempting to engage a boss and although I do love PvP, I get no pleasure from ganking noobs or engaging in combat that is not challenging.
When I buy a new MMO I go in with the mindset that Im going to play this new game for the next 5 or so years. It took me over 2 years to hit max level in EQ1, not because it was too hard or too slow, but because I was having so much fun Dragon raiding. For months my friends and I would have to kill our characters over and over to delevel so we could participate in certain raids. Racing to the max level wasnt a factor, because the mid level content was just as much fun as the end game.
Once I did hit max level, I didnt raid 5 nights a week just so I could be better than everyone else, I did it to support our guild and help friends and family members. I made personal sacrafices for the community and ended up with many close friends because of it. My wife still reminds me of the night someone called my cell phone while we were out having dinner with friends. Some strange voice on the other end said, "Hey Shuey, it's Dink. Lord Seru is up and we are short a cleric." 25 minutes later we were at home and I was being summoned to the raid. I didnt do that for personal gain, I actually caught hell from the wife for a month after that.
The person you describe as a hardcore gamer, sounds more like what I call 'the consoler'. Someone who plays a game to 'the end' and jumps to a new one. They dont really care about anyone else or their opinions so they dont mind acting like asshats and smack talking. They most likely know very little about the game so they try to spout off unimportant stats to impress others. I dont really see anything hardcore about that type of person.
My fun comes from being one of the best in the game. Sure it may be frustrating at times, but when you finally reach what you were shooting for (top 10 pvp, finish all raids, highest level, etc.) it's extremely rewarding, and therefore fun.
To each their own yes, but I get sick of casuals telling me they are having more fun than I am. I call bs.
My fun comes from being one of the best in the game. Sure it may be frustrating at times, but when you finally reach what you were shooting for (top 10 pvp, finish all raids, highest level, etc.) it's extremely rewarding, and therefore fun.
To each their own yes, but I get sick of casuals telling me they are having more fun than I am. I call bs.
I'm not one to tell someone if they are having fun or not, but I just wanted to say that link in your sig was simply brilliant. Thanks, I needed that
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
My fun comes from being one of the best in the game. Sure it may be frustrating at times, but when you finally reach what you were shooting for (top 10 pvp, finish all raids, highest level, etc.) it's extremely rewarding, and therefore fun.
To each their own yes, but I get sick of casuals telling me they are having more fun than I am. I call bs.
Noone is saying that. What i personally have said over and over is i am sick of the hardcores that burn through content, get to the cap and then cry bad mmo when they have nothing left to do.
It is perfectly normal to strive for the best in anything you do. It is NOT normal for a person to go into nerdrage when they hit a brick wall and cry that the sky is falling.
For some hardcore gamers, it becomes less about the adventure and wander of a new world to explore, than a breakdown and study of the mmorpgs game mechanics. They want to be the first and only ones to beat that dragon. It's less about being part of a community than being number one.
I think that's called playing to win. After all, if winning doesn't matter, why keep score?
Ken
www.ActionMMORPG.com One man, a small pile of money, and the screwball idea of a DIY Indie MMORPG? Yep, that's him. ~sigh~
If the core of why games are fun is pattern discovery, then when patterns are fully discovered and mastered the game is no longer fun. It "gets old".
Every game gets old. Every gamer makes it old, by playing it. Hardcore gamers just demand a sharper incline in the pattern's depth. They accelerate the natural process by focusing on the patterns (therefore discovering/mastering them faster; therefore making them old faster.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think that's called playing to win. After all, if winning doesn't matter, why keep score?
Gotta joke for ya: What happens when a truck full of water collides with a truck full of vinegar?
Give up?
DOUCHE!!!
And that's what a person of that mentality is. A giant douche. The kind of person that is so focused on the prize that they forget to give a damn about anyone or anything else and end up wondering why they're so miserable even though they have everything they ever wanted.
It's kind of funny... In this way, MMOs act as a reflection of real life. Rushing to the end is a hollow victory if no one really cares.
Of course they do. Take any recreational activity and turn it into a way of life and you're bound to ruin that recreational activity. And they certainly impact everyone around them.
For example...playing tennis the other day. A group of mid 40 something bussinessmen types were playing doubles next court over. Cursing, flinging racquets, screaming how much they suck, HIT THE BALL MORON. And you know what, that ruins the game for everyone else at the club because they're treating the game like the freakin US Open when they're meager club players.
Take a GAME too serious when its just a hobby and you're ruining it. Maybe if the hardcores didn't complain day and night it would be OK, but look at this forum. Whining and complaining and where does it come from...hardcore purists who can't just play a videogame. If they didn't bitch constantly about how casuals ruined it all, it would be one thing. But they can't just play a videogame and have fun. They have to rage about it to everyone around them=)
Everytime someone plays a game too hardcore then complains about lack of content, its boring, nothing to do, casuals suck, AAA MMOs suck...GUESS WHAT...you ruined it for yourself. Most people are perfectly content playing a MMO and a few other games at the same time and just having fun.
Some hardcore players can be content, but they're certainly not here=)
Few gamers don't ruin it for themselves. If the core of why games are fun is pattern discovery, then when patterns are fully discovered and mastered the game is no longer fun. It "gets old". Every game gets old. Every gamer makes it old, by playing it. Hardcore gamers just demand a sharper incline in the pattern's depth. They accelerate the natural process by focusing on the patterns (therefore discovering/mastering them faster; therefore making them old faster.)
Actually, I think this needs hedged. Every game gets old IF you obsess over it.
Here's a little trick that I learned awhile back. Play about three games at a time. Not simultaneously silly. Just don't focus entirely on one game. It also helps if those three games are in different genres.
Of course, this is a major problem with MMOs in general and the main reason why I don't normally play them. MMORPGs demand all of your time. Unless you are willing to devote 4+ hours a night, every night (8+ hours a night on the weekends), don't bother. This doesn't leave a lot of time for deathmatching on Quake Live or managing your team in Madden or Racing in Forza Motorsport 3 or trying to beat Contra with three lives and no continues or.... or.... Well, you get the picture....
Well hardcore-players are also the first to discover boss tactics, they usually maintain help sites, wikis, etc. hardcore guilds coordinate server events and help you with all the stuff you want to know about your class/race.
In complex games like EvE the dedicated hardcore player is the one you're asking when you just don't get your fitting right of you just don't know how to get to system X without getting your ass kicked.
Many hardcore gamers are also helpful, and really, if nobody played this min/max style a lot of us would have much harder times competing.
Being a HardCore MMO Gamer Myself, I find it can be troublesome as well as relaxing.. 50% of the majority of players are teenages with no care for games just to mess about and screw up your game play, that's normal even outside in schools and parks. Where as the other 50% are there to get away from the reality of life and work with friends, partners and meet someone outside of their worldliness.
The main issue here is the Maturity gap some young or older ppl have..
In my experience, casual gamers spend 70% of the time playing and 30% of their time complaining that someone else is better than them/has beaten something before them. IE this post.
Why do you care? Let us play how we want. Aren't you guys the people who get pissed when hardcore gamers gank you or ruin your content?
Few gamers don't ruin it for themselves. If the core of why games are fun is pattern discovery, then when patterns are fully discovered and mastered the game is no longer fun. It "gets old". Every game gets old. Every gamer makes it old, by playing it. Hardcore gamers just demand a sharper incline in the pattern's depth. They accelerate the natural process by focusing on the patterns (therefore discovering/mastering them faster; therefore making them old faster.)
Actually, I think this needs hedged. Every game gets old IF you obsess over it.
Here's a little trick that I learned awhile back. Play about three games at a time. Not simultaneously silly. Just don't focus entirely on one game. It also helps if those three games are in different genres.
Of course, this is a major problem with MMOs in general and the main reason why I don't normally play them. MMORPGs demand all of your time. Unless you are willing to devote 4+ hours a night, every night (8+ hours a night on the weekends), don't bother. This doesn't leave a lot of time for deathmatching on Quake Live or managing your team in Madden or Racing in Forza Motorsport 3 or trying to beat Contra with three lives and no continues or.... or.... Well, you get the picture....
Yup. I guess thats why I enjoy the MMO's that can be played casaully or at least I play them casually. I also have at least one single player game going as well. As you say, 4 hrs a day, everyday is too much of one game for me and interest is lost rapidly at that pace.
Comments
I'm only responding to the question.. the answer is yes..
And not only are they ruin the game for themselves, they are wasting there life in the same manor of an alcholoic or a drug addict.. and any hardcore gamer who "breaks free" of it will tell you the same. WHich is there own personal choice, but most Hardcore gaming addicts will not realise what they are doing to themselves until that addiction is in the past, or atleast being fed in moderation.
Answer is yes, but it's their money, their time, their choice. We have no right to criticize other people for doing what makes games fun for them, and vice versa.
I used to be hardcore back in EQ1 days, but it was by choice, by addiction, and I had an awesome time playing long hours and doing all the things that people today wouldn't imagine to be fun. Those days are long gone, I play more casual these days. But the key thing is I still have fun.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
Yes.
They race through all of the content complaining that it is too easy or too grindy, then once the get to endgame they complain that there isn't enough content.
They prettymuch crash and burn and it seems like they play games more to bitch about what the game isn't, could have been, should have been, used to be and what they want it to be than play for fun.
My sig is just as logical as your posts are
Exactly....you hit it dead on imo. Which is why this website is full of people that do nothing but complain and biatch about new MMOs coming out. IMO most of these folks should stop playing MMOs and move on with their lives...as the saying goes "you only live once". But who am I to tell them whats best for them...lol
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
Fanbois ruin the game because they think it's "okay" to release an unfinished game, because you're not supposed to play it!
Logic, get some.
When I bought FF7 like 12 years ago, I sat down and played it for a good 20 hours straight and beat it in a single sitting. Why?
Because I could. I paid money for it, and I wanted to nerdout. If the end of the game was mysteriously missing, I'd return the game.
To be fair, hardcore gamers are the first to experience buggy content and crash burn them. This allows the devs to tweak content that otherwise would not have been tested, so the rest of the folks can enjoy them mostly bug-free and tweak-ready. You can hate them, but they serve a purpose.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
Indeed they do ruin the game for themselves. Rushing to quickly through content, then whining about lack of endgame. Or being too critical of this or that. All in all they eventually ruin the game for themselves. Mind you though, not all hardcore gamers are like that.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
~Lord George Gordon Byron
Highlighted red is what I personaly feel is a hardcore player with MMORPG's, the rest what you said about hardcore I do not consider those people hardcore at all. I am that harcore player which I highlighted red.
Not sure why you would consider handholders to be hardcore...
Hardcore players also do not bash games and hop from one game to the other, as to me hardcore players are devoted players that make the most of what they are able to see/get/play unlike those people who try to play promises instead of a actual game delivered. I mean a player that needs maps or downloads them isn't hardcore in anyway or form but as said just a handhold player that seem unable to find his/her way on his/her own, definitly not hardcore in my book as to me a hardcore player will find out everything on his own or with his friends/clan/guild. I'll even say it that type of hardcore player who will MAKE these maps for those who need their handshold, not the other way around........
See my definition in Harcore seems to be very different from the views of many on this site as you seem to see it in the oposite way.
So to answer your topic title: No it aint the hardcore in my definition that ruin it but mainly the unexperianced or handholders that ruin parts of this genre. Harcore in this genre are the helpfull kind as said in my definition
I'll break this down furthur.
Hardcore can be disected and placed into several different catagories, and all things considered it is in the eyes of the person on what they deem as hardcore.
What i personally deem as hardcore is someone who burns through the content as quick as possible and then moans and groans about it later, usually causing dissention on the game's forums. I know i posted about this early in the thread but i want to expand on it.
I can be considered hard core because i demand to play every class and every race available. I demand to see it and do it all, just not in a pants on fire fashion that so many people exhibit.
In the early days of eq1, i would say i definately played 30+ hours a week. That is a lot. I played for about 8 years. In that time i only managed to get ONE character to max level (for a short period, they raised the cap again and i didn't continue). In all that time, i didn't care that i wasn't max level. I didn't care that i had mediocre gear in most other people's eyes.
I just loved playing the game. I loved playing on my variety of alts spread across multiple accounts.
The key to my successful fun factor i think is that i took my sweet ass time and truly explored and played in just about every area out there.
Part of the problem lies in the vocal minority. They tend to have the loudest voice and spread ill will on multiple forums. I am sure this scares mmo devs to a degree, as they just don't want to see any bad press out there for their product. Period. So they cater to the hardcores, the ones that burn through their content and wind up making expansion after broken untested expansion.
As for death penalties and travel times and xp grinds and quest grinds and equipment rots, etc etc etc this is completely up to the mmo developer. As a user, you can either choose to put up with their rules or play something else. Somewhere along the way a mentality was born that the user felt they had the right to demand fundamental changes to a games rules. Sadly somewhere in time game developers started vocally changing things based on public opinion. This takes control away from the developer and creates an atmosphere of misstrust where certain groups of users feel their pleas are being ignored while others are dutifully cared for.
The customer is not always right.
Now i am not against mmo developers taking public opinion into the strategy when making game changes, the key is for them to do it quietly and without giving the users any credit. Just make it happen.
anyways, i truly think the content burners are horribly bad for mmo's.
You're right but don't think poorly of them.
The hardcore gamer values their ability to excel in online games. Why? This is because they may see nothing else unique about themselves and as a result their online performance is directly attached to their self-esteem.
People tend to see them as angry or defensive. This is either due to real life circumstances or numerous online negative interaction from other players constantly insulting them for playing too much and not having enough of a life or out of jealousy for outperformaning them.
The continous negative interaction begins to influence their perceptions of reality and they'll start to hold a strong belief that almost all people are irrational and/or crazy. To protect themselves, they became very defensive and guarded to avoid potentially negative interaction with people. Or they become very rude to push others away for the same reason.
This is essentially the "Casual vs. Hardcore" debate.
The reality of it all is that people want to feel as though they have something unique or special about themselves to justify the reason that they should be. Something only they can do or something only they have. This is why people look for areas they excel and then capitalize on them. You can find it in many aspects of your life such as your job, love life, hobby (such as gaming!) or other outlit. It gives a person a sense of value. This is very important because people that lack this tend to suffer from depression and may later become suicidal.
Having said that, hardcore gamers aren't bad people like most prefer to think. They are people just like you or me but they may not be in a good place right now. And as far as an outlit goes, much better then doing drugs or something far worse then sitting infront of a computer screen.
I hope this is helps.
The hardcore label is so overused and there are so many definitions of what a hardcore gamer is I just think its too broad of a term.
Ive been called a hardcore gamer yet I have never been one to rush to the end game. I dont intentinally skip content, I dont care about percentages in survival when attempting to engage a boss and although I do love PvP, I get no pleasure from ganking noobs or engaging in combat that is not challenging.
When I buy a new MMO I go in with the mindset that Im going to play this new game for the next 5 or so years. It took me over 2 years to hit max level in EQ1, not because it was too hard or too slow, but because I was having so much fun Dragon raiding. For months my friends and I would have to kill our characters over and over to delevel so we could participate in certain raids. Racing to the max level wasnt a factor, because the mid level content was just as much fun as the end game.
Once I did hit max level, I didnt raid 5 nights a week just so I could be better than everyone else, I did it to support our guild and help friends and family members. I made personal sacrafices for the community and ended up with many close friends because of it. My wife still reminds me of the night someone called my cell phone while we were out having dinner with friends. Some strange voice on the other end said, "Hey Shuey, it's Dink. Lord Seru is up and we are short a cleric." 25 minutes later we were at home and I was being summoned to the raid. I didnt do that for personal gain, I actually caught hell from the wife for a month after that.
The person you describe as a hardcore gamer, sounds more like what I call 'the consoler'. Someone who plays a game to 'the end' and jumps to a new one. They dont really care about anyone else or their opinions so they dont mind acting like asshats and smack talking. They most likely know very little about the game so they try to spout off unimportant stats to impress others. I dont really see anything hardcore about that type of person.
My fun comes from being one of the best in the game. Sure it may be frustrating at times, but when you finally reach what you were shooting for (top 10 pvp, finish all raids, highest level, etc.) it's extremely rewarding, and therefore fun.
To each their own yes, but I get sick of casuals telling me they are having more fun than I am. I call bs.
The Official God FAQ
I'm not one to tell someone if they are having fun or not, but I just wanted to say that link in your sig was simply brilliant. Thanks, I needed that
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Noone is saying that. What i personally have said over and over is i am sick of the hardcores that burn through content, get to the cap and then cry bad mmo when they have nothing left to do.
It is perfectly normal to strive for the best in anything you do. It is NOT normal for a person to go into nerdrage when they hit a brick wall and cry that the sky is falling.
Yes, I believe the hardcore players "ruin" the game for themselves. However, that is the way they play and they enjoy it, so I can't say it's wrong.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I think that's called playing to win. After all, if winning doesn't matter, why keep score?
Ken
www.ActionMMORPG.com
One man, a small pile of money, and the screwball idea of a DIY Indie MMORPG? Yep, that's him. ~sigh~
Few gamers don't ruin it for themselves.
If the core of why games are fun is pattern discovery, then when patterns are fully discovered and mastered the game is no longer fun. It "gets old".
Every game gets old. Every gamer makes it old, by playing it. Hardcore gamers just demand a sharper incline in the pattern's depth. They accelerate the natural process by focusing on the patterns (therefore discovering/mastering them faster; therefore making them old faster.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think that's called playing to win. After all, if winning doesn't matter, why keep score?
Gotta joke for ya: What happens when a truck full of water collides with a truck full of vinegar?
Give up?
DOUCHE!!!
And that's what a person of that mentality is. A giant douche. The kind of person that is so focused on the prize that they forget to give a damn about anyone or anything else and end up wondering why they're so miserable even though they have everything they ever wanted.
It's kind of funny... In this way, MMOs act as a reflection of real life. Rushing to the end is a hollow victory if no one really cares.
And in case you're wondering.... No one cares.
Of course they do. Take any recreational activity and turn it into a way of life and you're bound to ruin that recreational activity. And they certainly impact everyone around them.
For example...playing tennis the other day. A group of mid 40 something bussinessmen types were playing doubles next court over. Cursing, flinging racquets, screaming how much they suck, HIT THE BALL MORON. And you know what, that ruins the game for everyone else at the club because they're treating the game like the freakin US Open when they're meager club players.
Take a GAME too serious when its just a hobby and you're ruining it. Maybe if the hardcores didn't complain day and night it would be OK, but look at this forum. Whining and complaining and where does it come from...hardcore purists who can't just play a videogame. If they didn't bitch constantly about how casuals ruined it all, it would be one thing. But they can't just play a videogame and have fun. They have to rage about it to everyone around them=)
Everytime someone plays a game too hardcore then complains about lack of content, its boring, nothing to do, casuals suck, AAA MMOs suck...GUESS WHAT...you ruined it for yourself. Most people are perfectly content playing a MMO and a few other games at the same time and just having fun.
Some hardcore players can be content, but they're certainly not here=)
Actually, I think this needs hedged. Every game gets old IF you obsess over it.
Here's a little trick that I learned awhile back. Play about three games at a time. Not simultaneously silly. Just don't focus entirely on one game. It also helps if those three games are in different genres.
Of course, this is a major problem with MMOs in general and the main reason why I don't normally play them. MMORPGs demand all of your time. Unless you are willing to devote 4+ hours a night, every night (8+ hours a night on the weekends), don't bother. This doesn't leave a lot of time for deathmatching on Quake Live or managing your team in Madden or Racing in Forza Motorsport 3 or trying to beat Contra with three lives and no continues or.... or.... Well, you get the picture....
Well hardcore-players are also the first to discover boss tactics, they usually maintain help sites, wikis, etc. hardcore guilds coordinate server events and help you with all the stuff you want to know about your class/race.
In complex games like EvE the dedicated hardcore player is the one you're asking when you just don't get your fitting right of you just don't know how to get to system X without getting your ass kicked.
Many hardcore gamers are also helpful, and really, if nobody played this min/max style a lot of us would have much harder times competing.
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Being a HardCore MMO Gamer Myself, I find it can be troublesome as well as relaxing.. 50% of the majority of players are teenages with no care for games just to mess about and screw up your game play, that's normal even outside in schools and parks. Where as the other 50% are there to get away from the reality of life and work with friends, partners and meet someone outside of their worldliness.
The main issue here is the Maturity gap some young or older ppl have..
In my experience, casual gamers spend 70% of the time playing and 30% of their time complaining that someone else is better than them/has beaten something before them. IE this post.
Why do you care? Let us play how we want. Aren't you guys the people who get pissed when hardcore gamers gank you or ruin your content?
The Official God FAQ
Actually, I think this needs hedged. Every game gets old IF you obsess over it.
Here's a little trick that I learned awhile back. Play about three games at a time. Not simultaneously silly. Just don't focus entirely on one game. It also helps if those three games are in different genres.
Of course, this is a major problem with MMOs in general and the main reason why I don't normally play them. MMORPGs demand all of your time. Unless you are willing to devote 4+ hours a night, every night (8+ hours a night on the weekends), don't bother. This doesn't leave a lot of time for deathmatching on Quake Live or managing your team in Madden or Racing in Forza Motorsport 3 or trying to beat Contra with three lives and no continues or.... or.... Well, you get the picture....
Yup. I guess thats why I enjoy the MMO's that can be played casaully or at least I play them casually. I also have at least one single player game going as well. As you say, 4 hrs a day, everyday is too much of one game for me and interest is lost rapidly at that pace.