Well when it launches you can continue to fund the game to play in your epic sandbox and build your sandcastles because thats about the only thing to do right now.
I cant believe you guys paid for the game before it even came out of alpha,i think your stupid for funding a project that might not even lift off the ground but it is your money and i wont tell you how to spend it.
I praise these guys for trying something new, for i am one of those not playing anything due to the stale same themepark MMO's out there.
But atleast i want something ya know.. i dont just want some f'n sandbox where i can craft and build a house. Atleast give me some dynamic spawns, meaningful pvp system and some open dungeons with mobs and loot, or maybe even a keep system,im not a programmer and i dont know the resources you need in order to make some of those things, but when im paying for a steak dinner i want atleast the steak and the potato not just the salad and the breadsticks. Catch my drift?
But you guys are given a box with some sand.. a hammer.. and a home and 2 idiots beating up on eachother for no reason other then to PK because there is nothing else to do.
so the two of you were unhappy with the state of the game after being in the beta test so you wanted your money back?
Why shouldn't we get a refund for a product we do not actually own yet? The game is released in 2 weeks, until then we are in the beta, we do not own the game. (also lying about shipping the boxes has thrown many other people over as well)
so the both of you are pissed over not getting a box and want your money back?
From what I have seen, SV has conducted themselves unprofessionally and the terrible management decisions they had, such as the 2 week vacation they took, I decided to move on and get my money back. What is wrong with that? Why would I not try to get a refund for it when its not even officially released yet? And why should I not try to get my money back if they lied about shipping the boxes?
Its impossible to defend the box issue anyway you spin it.
Not really, its pretty simple, and again, if you clicked on the box saying you accept the terms of purchase and refund policy then you would know that they would deny a refund to you. If the game didn't have such problems we wouldn't be hearing this crap from you right now, thats just the honest truth, which you seem to dismiss. Don Juan pretty much called it out fairly well. If the game was complete and they wanted some additional polish, you'd be all for it, but you made a bad decision and you can't live with your decision. (not you in particular mccoy, but anyone who's purchased the game and didn't like it in beta)
as for slapshot
"No.. you are 100% wrong. Please... I did NOT accept any terms and agreements when I ordered the game. Nope.. no popups.. nothing I clicked on.. nadda. Part of THEIR terms with Visa is that THEY will deliver the product within a certain amount of time. You CANNOT charge someone in July and not deliver a product 6 months later and not give the money back if asked."
if you clicked on those agreements then thats a different story because thats what you signed into and THATS WHAT A PREORDER IS. If they didn't have those agreements on your preorder, then why are we even talking? Its like any MMO, when you click on the TOS agreements and violate it (whether you actually read it or not) and get banned, you can't get your money back son, its just not how this game is played. IF you didn't agree to the TOS then get your money back all day long for all I care. I'm not the one who has to deal with it any which way, I didn't waste money on a crap product I wasn't sure I was going to like or not. Visa or mastercard be damned, when you sign an agreement with a private company, you both have to live up to the terms of the agreement, visa, mastercard, paypall, and your bank are all financial institutions, they don't give a shit who gets the money as long as YOU give them theirs.. they aren't the noble companies you think they are standing up for consumers rights. They'll let it get tied up in litigation before they're out their money, you can be sure of that.
Purchasing a box of an unfinished game thinking it will ship on the estimated date is niave to put it nicely.
All of the posts of people like that will not deter me in the slightest of trying this game once it is released, but I'm also a person who never preorders anything because it's not worth it. But I certainly wouldn't of preordered a non finished game and then been mad when they didn't ship me a copy before it finished.
I had preordered a few games back in the day that go pushed back months and no one made a fuss then, suddenly people are surprised that pre-ordering (ordering something before it's ready hence the pre) doesn't guarantee a date. That's why it is always an estimate.
People are crazy.
I must be crazy since I pre-ordered the 1st day it was released. They said they would ship it in September, then pushed it back to December, now January. Probably going to push it back another few months, because of that people are getting refunds.
I can't say that I was insinuating that because then I could get flagged for trolling/flaming. But clearly you got what I eas saying.
A PRE order, means ordering a product that isn't ready yet. It also means the time of it being ready are an estimation, estimations change. Anyone that orders a PRE order that early in a game's creation and then gets mad when the date is pushed back is crazy. Ever seen an MMO that didn't get pushed back? Clearly it was going to happen.
I could care less if people are getting refunds, just like I could care less if people preordered to begin with. It still makes them ridiculous for doing it, and then ridiculous for getting upset over it. It also shows their lack of understanding with the world and how it works, or how to read what the offer actually is, or when the game will actually been released or or or or.
Personally I have nothing invested in this game and I wouldn't be affected if it did or didn't launch. I just find the whole situation of people buying something that isn't finished being made yet and then being shocked when the date gets pushed back and creating a dozen threads over it. You aren't going to change the mind of anyone who is interested in trying it once it's released so your war on the forums in gaining you nothing, just humorous reads for everyone else.
Im sure alot of us WANT this game to succeed, alot of us are tired of these themepark MMO's.
I really want to play this game, and ive said it..before for .. i wish somebody would invest into something like this, and throw 1-3 million at it and just let these guys roll! It would come out with 100k+ subs EASY in the first couple months.
People are looking for a way out, but they have nowhere to go and no other game to turn to. And then there are other people like me who refuse to play the trash but also want a somewhat complete game or atleast something to do.
Man if this game just had a nice dynamic spawn system for mobs, and a pvp system that had a point to it.. i would pick it up in hopes of them improving the game by alot in the next 6-8 months.
I really want to play this game, and ive said it..before for .. i wish somebody would invest into something like this, and throw 1-3 million at it and just let these guys roll! It would come out with 100k+ subs EASY in the first couple months.
It would be awesome if that happened. I wish a company would purchase Starvault so get the ball rolling, but only if they kept the current vision of the game. Right now they are completely out of money and it will be a disasterous launch.
The game will not be complete at launch. This is a fact and has been said by the developers themselves many times. At this point, if you "wasted" your money on it, you didn't do enough research in the first place and should probably not be too many things anyway. They stated many many many times, that everything is subject to change, the game won't be complete, just playable, and that they may change the date of release and shipment. I'm no fanboy, but still. You need to research these things guys. Seriously.
Also, they are shipping the boxes from EUROPE and are probably not doing an overnight shipment as to prevent them from losing even more money.
I don't like how you are showing a biased opinion on this. I have met and talked to people who are perfectly happy playing this game now. And don't say "there's no one on the forums like that". Forums are for whining.
if you clicked on those agreements then thats a different story because thats what you signed into and THATS WHAT A PREORDER IS. If they didn't have those agreements on your preorder, then why are we even talking? Its like any MMO, when you click on the TOS agreements and violate it (whether you actually read it or not) and get banned, you can't get your money back son, its just not how this game is played. IF you didn't agree to the TOS then get your money back all day long for all I care. I'm not the one who has to deal with it any which way, I didn't waste money on a crap product I wasn't sure I was going to like or not. Visa or mastercard be damned, when you sign an agreement with a private company, you both have to live up to the terms of the agreement, visa, mastercard, paypall, and your bank are all financial institutions, they don't give a shit who gets the money as long as YOU give them theirs.. they aren't the noble companies you think they are standing up for consumers rights. They'll let it get tied up in litigation before they're out their money, you can be sure of that. Anyways, this digression has gone on long enough.
OK.. I think I said it in th eabove text but in case you missed it. I .. DID.. NOT.. CLICK.. ON.. ANY BUTTON.. WITH...ANY.. TOS AGREEMENT.
Sorry for the caps and the drawn out sentence but you seem to be having an argument over something that never happened. I did NOT buy a beta.. I bought a "DVD Box containing the game Mortal Online". Over 6 months ago. They ignored all attempts by myself and many others to obtain information or communication. I filed a complaint.. and got my money back.. plus interest. End of story. It's realy that simple.. There WAS no button to click with any agreement... (although rethorically even if their was some button it would be irrelevant as you cannot idefinately delay delivery of a product.)
I mean.. seriously.. if 6 months (and counting is OK).. where is the line? A year? At 12 months does it magically become OK? If they don;t deliver in 2 years?
No.. 6 months is WAY too long to hold someones money without delivering the product, and that is why they had to give back the money AND pay a processing fee.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Also, they are shipping the boxes from EUROPE and are probably not doing an overnight shipment as to prevent them from losing even more money. I don't like how you are showing a biased opinion on this. I have met and talked to people who are perfectly happy playing this game now. And don't say "there's no one on the forums like that". Forums are for whining.
They sent an Email to a customer saying they started shipping between Christmas and New Years... No one in the world has admitted to receiving their shipment. Today is the 19th... that's not overnight shipping.. thats 22 days. Again.. Not one box has been delivered... Does that make any sense?
The best thing that can happen is for people to login as soon as they let the public in. Trust me.. those folks will see the reality of the game immediately and will know who was speaking truthfully. I don;t need to tell anyone.. they can see for themselves in a day or two.
Just think... I read they sold 10,000-12,000 units. There is such a large percentage of those people that just gave up on the game that they have to have a Public Stress Test. Just think how bad that is... you are forced to make a Stress Test the first thing your potential customers see in your game? Simply because there arent enough people still playing from that 10,000-12,000 to stress the only server....
You should be able to see for yourself in a day or two.. hang tight.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It would be awesome if that happened. I wish a company would purchase Starvault so get the ball rolling, but only if they kept the current vision of the game. Right now they are completely out of money and it will be a disasterous launch.
YES.... that would be ideal. I thought we were going to have that with Shadowbane and Wolfpack/Ubisoft.. but it just didn;t work out. I still say that if those guys had a few really good extra programers and had been able to launch with way less bugs and lag/crashes that game would have ruled the roost for a long time. They even designed the game so that they could pretty easilly create new maps/worlds for different servers... What a shame... they had a crappy launch and never recovered.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The odds of them getting bought out are very, very slim. Even the art assets aren't stellar, though they are good -- but a good shop can whip those up in no time flat as they know how to use the tools like Grome and Speedtree properly, and the work is cut a lot shorter.
An MMO that has PvP at its core is a risky business... it's why you need a solid foundation, a solid business plan, a solid roadmap for that game. Because these games attract griefers. People 'ragequit' from losing their stuff, even if they say they don't mind. There are a lot of variables and the business plan has to be solid and set in stone if the game is to succeed.
The problem is, that since the main financeer is the CEO's dad, there was no need to have any of the above. The money was given, it was spent on things they thought they needed, and the business plan and roadmap seem to never have existed. They had some ideas in their head on how they wanted it to work -- unfortunately the lead designer has never shipped a title in his life before, and so the design of the game has been well... muddled, at best. Unfortunately it's a mish mosh right now -- a few systems that work, none of which work well, lots of ideas on paper with the idea of UO mage duels and the like, some amazing 'crafting' but no thought into how it ties into the economy or supply lines, no thought into the PvP beyond taking Age of Chivalry and trying to put it in (and failing), no thought into magic *at all*, etc etc.
Until a company that is well organized, has some experience, and has a solid business plan well... a game like this is never really going to stay around. We have evidence of this all around us, of course. Dark and Light, Fury, Warhammer, Darkfall, etc... all have big design flaws that ultimately keep them losing users regularly, or don't keep them for the long term. And despite the WOW naysayers, Blizzard looks at their audience and balances their changes with the ability to retain them on a long term. It's easy for them since they are building a big raiding/PvE game that has no loss on death. However for those with PvP and loss on death in their game like Darkfall, Shadowbane, and MO -- they need more thought into it. Darkfall works for a while because the seiges get fun. But as soon as people stop seiging, or the big guilds go dark or get busy or whatever -- the entire content of the game grinds to a halt. And that will be their failure, just like it will be in MO. Unfortunately for MO, nothing really seems to work at all, so they have the added pressure of making a game that is actually "a game" rather than a tech demo that is a big unreal mod.
I am trying to make sure people actually know whats going on and not to spend money on this until after the release. I am trying to warn people not to buy it due to the fanboy hype and distortion of what is actually happening. I think its a public service to help people save money...
I think it's fair to give people a warning before they buy. I wish more people had been cautious before they purchased MO because there are lots of people who have gotten refunds through their CC company, which has caused SV more trouble than if they simply hadn't preordered in the first place. I think those people were foolish to spend so much money on a game they knew nothing about, and when the beta didn't turn out to be like they'd expected, they wanted their money back...
That said, please don't make out Star Vault to be some malicious, money grabbing company. They aren't. They are a very small and inexperienced development team. Few (if any) have worked on a game in their lives. Most of the devs are in their 20's, and several of them are former interns. They also have no support team, so there's a reason they don't respond to emails requesting refunds. They clearly stated that refunds wouldn't be given (whether or not there are ways around this with Swedish law, I have no idea), so it makes sense that they wouldn't waste time responding to email requests asking for refunds, since they have already publicly stated the answer in their September 2009 update. As far as shipping the boxes go, it has only been 2 weeks since Maerlyn posted that the boxes have started to be shipped (http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/29774-quick-update-boxes.html). Furthermore, they are shipping to those places furthest away first (probably East Asia/Australia), so that the boxes will all reach their destination roughly the same time.. So it's likely they had started shipping to East Asia and Australia at the time of his post, but not yet to EU or US. I would hazard a guess that it takes an awful long time to ship a package from Sweden to Australia, so this would easily explain why US and EU folks haven't received their boxes yet. So no... there's no reason to think SV is some evil company lying to you about everything, which seems to be what you want people to believe.
I'm terribly sorry the beta hasn't lived up to your expectations. I'm terribly sorry that you are so hurt by the fact that SV has made mistakes (due mostly to their being an inexperienced dev company) that you now vilify them. It's one thing to inform, and it's another to try and claim that SV is lying or conducting their business maliciously. Unprofessional? Yeah, sure. I can see that. They're a brand new development company that has no experience, what did you expect? But malicious..? I see no reason to think they have been deliberately malicious. In fact, SV has been a lot more forthcoming than a lot of other devs in my experience. Yet you'll always be able to find some mistake that they've made and spin it off as something sinister.
My recommendation: Anyone who thinks $40-50 is a lot of money and you want to play a complete game, don't buy it. If you think there's any chance that you'll want a refund because you aren't satisfied with the state of the game, just wait a few months. Hell, forget about the game completely for a few months and next time you remember it, take a look at how it's doing. Then decide if you want to play. The only reasons to preorder at this point would be to 1) get 1 month free playtime because you know you want to play at release, or 2) you like SV's vision and you want to support the development of MO, regardless of its current state or the state you've anticipated it will be at release.
I personally think MO is definitely headed in the right direction. The vision is great, they just need enough subs to help them get there. They have a lot more stuff in store for the game, a lot of which has already been created, just not implemented for one reason or another (we saw the files in the combat beta build for siege weapons, heat maps, etc). Be patient, but don't give up on MO yet. Many MMOs have had terrible releases, but a lot of them have come a long way since then... here's to hoping the same will be true of MO.
I'm terribly sorry the beta hasn't lived up to your expectations. I'm terribly sorry that you are so hurt by the fact that SV has made mistakes (due mostly to their being an inexperienced dev company) that you now vilify them. It's one thing to inform, and it's another to try and claim that SV is lying or conducting their business maliciously. Unprofessional? Yeah, sure. I can see that. They're a brand new development company that has no experience, what did you expect? But malicious..? I see no reason to think they have been deliberately malicious. In fact, SV has been a lot more forthcoming than a lot of other devs in my experience. Yet you'll always be able to find some mistake that they've made and spin it off as something sinister.
I am not trying to say they are being maliciously on purpose. They may communicate better with their customers, but they do not deliver when the time is right. They are going to release a broken game in 2 weeks, can't spin it any other way. I honestly feel sorry for them. I know they only have 20 developers, but those excuses have to end if people are starting to feel like they spent money on something thinking its going to crash and burn. I think people should really deserve to know what is happening and to not listen to the hype from MO's followers saying "this is the best game ever!!!!!" when the only thing to do in it is craft weapons, make houses, explore (will take less than 1 day) and pvp with full loot. Nothing much more than that.
I don't think SV is a "money-grabbing" company. I think they are basically unethical in order to get their product launched.
If you give interviews that you link to on your main site, about how the game will have epic monsters that live only one time, and mage duels that are reminiscent of UO, and a living and breathing economy, and a magic system that's amazing, and combat that takes depth and skill, etc etc... people believe that what you are saying is the TRUTH.
Now if they release a bullet point saying "basic combat" and don't quantify it -- what do people expect? They expect what was said in the interviews, in the IRC chats, in the forums by the developers themselves. This is where SV has gotten a lot of credit, by being so "open" with the community. Unfortunately, their 'openness' was just to create hype around a game that did not exist, and will not exist.
Are they inexperienced? Sure they are. But if they are promising XYZ, and asking for money in order to show you that promise, then I expect one end of the bargain is fulfilled -- mine. Their end is lacking. And instead of being up front and honest, they have used their 'open communication' to literally start fights in the forums, taking it as a badge of honor to humiliate and attack forum members. They openly attack other developers like Aventurine, and have shown their colors when it comes to telling the truth, whether it be about what to expect in combat vis a vis the interviews, or that the boxes that people ordered have been shipped.
You said it yourself though -- a lot of people have nowhere else to go. I'm one of them. But at the same time, while those people that don't have anywhere else to go will cling on to MO until it breaths its last breath, there are people like myself who are realistic about development (and actually know a thing or two about it), enough to see that their entire process has been flawed, they used the term "beta" to get people buy a game that is BARELY an alpha, and that there is no way without significant reorganizational changes (ie, fire the lead designer, get an experienced lead programmer) that this game will come CLOSE to being playable. They bought the tools they have no idea how to use, and if they get packet loss, or network problems, or severe lag, etc... do you think they know enough how to turn on Wireshark or Ethereal and trace those packets? No, of course not. They rely solely on Epic's tech support, and if they can't pinpoint the problem, the problems just continue to exist because it's not the job of tech support to tell you what you did wrong, or where it's coming from.
In the end, having hope is a great thing, but when money is attached there are different expectations and I think everybody realizes that. Some people have hope and are putting it all in MO, ignoring all the glaring problems. And others who paid the money are disappointed because they were lured in by lies and half truths, and the idea that beta was feature complete. At the end of the day, we will see who's right. I have my own inclinations there -- but the more people support companies who lie in order to push a product through to launch, the more companies that do it will pop up. If anything, this is proof that customers are idiots, and more "MMO" companies will sprout up promising the world, and deliver a stick figure running around a barren landscape, because they promised "basic animations" and "part of the continent".
It's all about expectations. People keep lowering theirs in order to make MO seem like they are on track. I kept mine solid from the beginning and that's why I'm disappointed. And I'm not alone.
They clearly stated that refunds wouldn't be given (whether or not there are ways around this with Swedish law, I have no idea), so it makes sense that they wouldn't waste time responding to email requests asking for refunds, since they have already publicly stated the answer in their September 2009 update. Umm.. that's great and all but I bought the game in July not September.. and I never signed up for their newsletter.. didn't know that was required. The only reference to this Refund Policy was in a small clicky link on the left side of the screen which I didn't have to, and didn't click before ordering. BTW to the best of my knowledge there is no "Swedish" law as you infer.... Sweden is part of the EU and is subject to their laws regarding these things. Someone was kind enough to post the applicable laws on your forum (Poster is a MO mod) so I am sure you have seen them...No one refuted them so I believe them to be accurate.
As far as shipping the boxes go, it has only been 2 weeks since Maerlyn posted that the boxes have started to be shipped (http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/29774-quick-update-boxes.html). Furthermore, they are shipping to those places furthest away first (probably East Asia/Australia), so that the boxes will all reach their destination roughly the same time.. So it's likely they had started shipping to East Asia and Australia at the time of his post, but not yet to EU or US. I would hazard a guess that it takes an awful long time to ship a package from Sweden to Australia, so this would easily explain why US and EU folks haven't received their boxes yet. Here are the delivery times for Parcel Post International (the basic service.. non-express) from Malmo Sweden to Australia: 5-6 Work Days. That's just using the Swedish Post office and not an Express shipping company like UPS/DHL/FedEX... Go right to the Swedish Post website and look it up: www.posten.se/logistik/foretag/leverera/tjanster/gb/resultat_leveranstid.jspv Also, their Support sent an Email to a customer which he forwarded to me that was dated Ja 4th and stated they had ALREADY started shiping boxes between Christmas and NY. How is it possible that NO person in the World (Nort America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia has received a shipment yet? And seriously.. No tracking numbers? Sending shipments around the word? I get a tracking number when I'm sending a box to my brother 200 miles away, and that's just the USPS... So no... there's no reason to think SV is some evil company lying to you about everything, which seems to be what you want people to believe. You even have described their pre-order process as "sketchy" in your posts on the forums The only reasons to preorder at this point would be to 1) get 1 month free playtime because you know you want to play at release, or 2) you like SV's vision and you want to support the development of MO, regardless of its current state or the state you've anticipated it will be at release. I agree, unfortunately I purchased the game on the first day because the developers said it was the only way to guarantee my access to the game on launch day. Coming from the Darkfall launch, I actually thought demand would outstrip supply and we might have another fiasco where half of the potential customers couldn't even buy the game. Little did I know that 5 months later, not only would they still have copies of the game, but they would be selling them at 25% discount to try and generate sales...
See above.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't think SV is a "money-grabbing" company. I think they are basically unethical in order to get their product launched.
If you give interviews that you link to on your main site, about how the game will have epic monsters that live only one time, and mage duels that are reminiscent of UO, and a living and breathing economy, and a magic system that's amazing, and combat that takes depth and skill, etc etc... people believe that what you are saying is the TRUTH.
Now if they release a bullet point saying "basic combat" and don't quantify it -- what do people expect? They expect what was said in the interviews, in the IRC chats, in the forums by the developers themselves. This is where SV has gotten a lot of credit, by being so "open" with the community. Unfortunately, their 'openness' was just to create hype around a game that did not exist, and will not exist.
Are they inexperienced? Sure they are. But if they are promising XYZ, and asking for money in order to show you that promise, then I expect one end of the bargain is fulfilled -- mine. Their end is lacking. And instead of being up front and honest, they have used their 'open communication' to literally start fights in the forums, taking it as a badge of honor to humiliate and attack forum members. They openly attack other developers like Aventurine, and have shown their colors when it comes to telling the truth, whether it be about what to expect in combat vis a vis the interviews, or that the boxes that people ordered have been shipped.
You said it yourself though -- a lot of people have nowhere else to go. I'm one of them. But at the same time, while those people that don't have anywhere else to go will cling on to MO until it breaths its last breath, there are people like myself who are realistic about development (and actually know a thing or two about it), enough to see that their entire process has been flawed, they used the term "beta" to get people buy a game that is BARELY an alpha, and that there is no way without significant reorganizational changes (ie, fire the lead designer, get an experienced lead programmer) that this game will come CLOSE to being playable. They bought the tools they have no idea how to use, and if they get packet loss, or network problems, or severe lag, etc... do you think they know enough how to turn on Wireshark or Ethereal and trace those packets? No, of course not. They rely solely on Epic's tech support, and if they can't pinpoint the problem, the problems just continue to exist because it's not the job of tech support to tell you what you did wrong, or where it's coming from.
In the end, having hope is a great thing, but when money is attached there are different expectations and I think everybody realizes that. Some people have hope and are putting it all in MO, ignoring all the glaring problems. And others who paid the money are disappointed because they were lured in by lies and half truths, and the idea that beta was feature complete. At the end of the day, we will see who's right. I have my own inclinations there -- but the more people support companies who lie in order to push a product through to launch, the more companies that do it will pop up. If anything, this is proof that customers are idiots, and more "MMO" companies will sprout up promising the world, and deliver a stick figure running around a barren landscape, because they promised "basic animations" and "part of the continent".
It's all about expectations. People keep lowering theirs in order to make MO seem like they are on track. I kept mine solid from the beginning and that's why I'm disappointed. And I'm not alone.
I'm disappointed too for the most part. Not because I feel SV cheated us out, but because they have to this point failed to do much of what they set out to. I still have hope that they can turn things around in the future, but in order for that to happen they need to start making changes in how they do things. I think most of what you say is true, but I don't look at what they've told us as being unethical.
They said they will have one time epic monsters, they do. They may not have been implemented into beta, but I believe they do have them. They said there will be UO-like mage duels, and I remember seeing the files for magic spells in early beta builds, and there were a lot more than what's implemented now. So they exist somewhere, they haven't been implemented yet. The combat system is meant to have depth and take skill. The same is true of the economy. The "core" of these systems are set up in such a way as to make these things the primary goals. The things they said they have, I believe exist. The problem is things haven't gone according to plan. Some of these things have not yet been implemented for one reason or another. Some of these things didn't turn out quite like they had expected them to on paper. That doesn't mean that so long as these things exist somewhere (not in the game) that it makes the game ok. But it doesn't indicate to me that SV lied about anything, only that they bit off more than they could chew and things haven't gone like they had expected them to. The fault lies in their ability to plan, but again, I certainly don't think that was done intentionally. It all leads back to a lack of experience on their end
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Originally posted by lachrymoseQQ
They clearly stated that refunds wouldn't be given (whether or not there are ways around this with Swedish law, I have no idea), so it makes sense that they wouldn't waste time responding to email requests asking for refunds, since they have already publicly stated the answer in their September 2009 update.
Umm.. that's great and all but I bought the game in July not September.. and I never signed up for their newsletter.. didn't know that was required. The only reference to this Refund Policy was in a small clicky link on the left side of the screen which I didn't have to, and didn't click before ordering. BTW to the best of my knowledge there is no "Swedish" law as you infer.... Sweden is part of the EU and is subject to their laws regarding these things. Someone was kind enough to post the applicable laws on your forum (Poster is a MO mod) so I am sure you have seen them...No one refuted them so I believe them to be accurate.
As far as shipping the boxes go, it has only been 2 weeks since Maerlyn posted that the boxes have started to be shipped (http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/29774-quick-update-boxes.html). Furthermore, they are shipping to those places furthest away first (probably East Asia/Australia), so that the boxes will all reach their destination roughly the same time.. So it's likely they had started shipping to East Asia and Australia at the time of his post, but not yet to EU or US. I would hazard a guess that it takes an awful long time to ship a package from Sweden to Australia, so this would easily explain why US and EU folks haven't received their boxes yet.
Here are the delivery times for Parcel Post International (the basic service.. non-express) from Malmo Sweden to Australia: 5-6 Work Days. That's just using the Swedish Post office and not an Express shipping company like UPS/DHL/FedEX... Go right to the Swedish Post website and look it up:
Also, their Support sent an Email to a customer which he forwarded to me that was dated Ja 4th and stated they had ALREADY started shiping boxes between Christmas and NY. How is it possible that NO person in the World (Nort America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia has received a shipment yet? And seriously.. No tracking numbers? Sending shipments around the word? I get a tracking number when I'm sending a box to my brother 200 miles away, and that's just the USPS...
So no... there's no reason to think SV is some evil company lying to you about everything, which seems to be what you want people to believe.
You even have described their pre-order process as "sketchy" in your posts on the forums
The only reasons to preorder at this point would be to 1) get 1 month free playtime because you know you want to play at release, or 2) you like SV's vision and you want to support the development of MO, regardless of its current state or the state you've anticipated it will be at release.
I agree, unfortunately I purchased the game on the first day because the developers said it was the only way to guarantee my access to the game on launch day. Coming from the Darkfall launch, I actually thought demand would outstrip supply and we might have another fiasco where half of the potential customers couldn't even buy the game. Little did I know that 5 months later, not only would they still have copies of the game, but they would be selling them at 25% discount to try and generate sales...
See above.
You don't have to sign up for their newsletter, they posted this information on their main page. They also included their refund policy when you purchased the game. Those who purchased should have read this first. I have little simpathy for anyone who didn't. Buyers need to take more responsibility for poor purchases made when the information is right there for them to read. If you didn't bother to read it, then I'm sorry, but you should have. You can still get a refund through your CC company if you haven't already, but let that be a lesson, since you might not be as fortunate in the future.
Not sure what to say about them saying they started sending out packages before New Year's. If that's true, then it makes me curious myself. I understand why they wouldn't give you a tracking number, since the added strain of the logistics surrounding the distribution of the tracking numbers to each and every customer would likely be a nightmare for them. But if they really did claim to have sent them out in December, then I'd like to get to the bottom of this myself...
I'm sure the devs didn't plan on there being tons of copies left of the game and being forced to reduce 25% off the price either. When I bought L4D, I paid $40, and the next week it went on sale for $10... Shit happens. :
Originally posted by rlmccoy1987
1) He is the mod that posted how to get a refund
2) Blue colored words makes my head hurt, use red or something =P
LachrymoseQQ , do you have any clue about law?? Apparently from your post above you do not.
Let me make it very clear again for those that lack reading comprehension ..... YOU CAN'T LEGALLY ENTER INTO AN ILLEGAL AGREEMENT and that is what the NO REFUND policy is!!! Plain and simple it is crminal intent and is actionable in both US and EU courts of law.
It has been pointed out over and over what Visa / MC rules are, what EU law is, what US law is and SV has violated every f'n last one of these rules and laws in regards to mail order / delayed delivery sales. They DID NOT NOTIFY customers of a delay to shipping and offer either a refund or agreement to delay as required by both US and EU law. Forget the MC/VISA agreements. We are talking friggin LAW here, what part if that is so f'n hard to understand??? Are all you fawnbois really that dense or immature?
They were selling a product and the damn product WAS NOT BETA TESTING it was a box with a DVD included. They defaulted on their end of the contract and criminally neglected to follow requirements laid down in law as to how to handle a delay. They should be brought up on charges and the company disbanded with fines and jail time administered to the principals of the company.
Don't like that attitude? Well tough, that is the facts of life and how the law works. When some of you move out of mommies house you might learn that.
Not sure what to say about them saying they started sending out packages before New Year's. If that's true, then it makes me curious myself. I understand why they wouldn't give you a tracking number, since the added strain of the logistics surrounding the distribution of the tracking numbers to each and every customer would likely be a nightmare for them. But if they really did claim to have sent them out in December, then I'd like to get to the bottom of this myself...
I would be happy to forward you the Email. I have posted it's contents in another thread.. but if you would like to see the original PM me an I will send it to you.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I bought the game at the start of block B and hated it. I tried to like it and played the mess for about two weeks before I couldn't take anymore. I went back after the last patch and still can't get into the game, it's just too much of a mess. I purchased the game using my bank card and when I tried to get a refund the bank told me I had to contact the company. I kinda figured "well fat chance of getting my money back" so I let it go. I appreciate the OP posting this information because I have recontacted the company giving them one more chance to refund my money before I go back to the bank.
Overall my purchase and experience with Starvault has been nothing but a disaster. It's unfortunate because I really don't mind "helping out" a bit like I did paying extra for a game but this mess will keep me from helping out any companies in the future by paying more.
Edited to add that I must be one of the rare 1 out of 10 people who don't like the game.
I bought the game at the start of block B and hated it. I tried to like it and played the mess for about two weeks before I couldn't take anymore. I went back after the last patch and still can't get into the game, it's just too much of a mess. I purchased the game using my bank card and when I tried to get a refund the bank told me I had to contact the company. I kinda figured "well fat chance of getting my money back" so I let it go. I appreciate the OP posting this information because I have recontacted the company giving them one more chance to refund my money before I go back to the bank. Overall my purchase and experience with Starvault has been nothing but a disaster. It's unfortunate because I really don't mind "helping out" a bit like I did paying extra for a game but this mess will keep me from helping out any companies in the future by paying more.
Edited to add that I must be one of the rare 1 out of 10 people who don't like the game.
Glad I helped you out, hope you get your requested refund. Good luck.
Although, in my opinion, it will be better than DF down the line if only because of the 1.) graphics and 2.) skill cap.
skill cap means classes. Classes mean imbalanced 1v1 pvp. This is the reason I do not play WoW. Why do people think skill cap is such a good thing? is that the only way they can kill someone? True test of player skill is when your opponent has access to the exact same abilities you have like in Darkfall.
Actually the gear imbalance at end game makes the PvP unbalanced in WoW more than anything. Biggest fault is they went crazy with the gear stats, just to crazy. The classes themselves do ok with gear being about equal. I have to agree though once you have classes in a MMORPG it always means imbalance and PvP then has to be looked at as a team game as much as raiding is.
Comments
Oh what a great thread this is.
Well when it launches you can continue to fund the game to play in your epic sandbox and build your sandcastles because thats about the only thing to do right now.
I cant believe you guys paid for the game before it even came out of alpha,i think your stupid for funding a project that might not even lift off the ground but it is your money and i wont tell you how to spend it.
I praise these guys for trying something new, for i am one of those not playing anything due to the stale same themepark MMO's out there.
But atleast i want something ya know.. i dont just want some f'n sandbox where i can craft and build a house. Atleast give me some dynamic spawns, meaningful pvp system and some open dungeons with mobs and loot, or maybe even a keep system,im not a programmer and i dont know the resources you need in order to make some of those things, but when im paying for a steak dinner i want atleast the steak and the potato not just the salad and the breadsticks. Catch my drift?
But you guys are given a box with some sand.. a hammer.. and a home and 2 idiots beating up on eachother for no reason other then to PK because there is nothing else to do.
Why shouldn't we get a refund for a product we do not actually own yet? The game is released in 2 weeks, until then we are in the beta, we do not own the game. (also lying about shipping the boxes has thrown many other people over as well)
so the both of you are pissed over not getting a box and want your money back?
From what I have seen, SV has conducted themselves unprofessionally and the terrible management decisions they had, such as the 2 week vacation they took, I decided to move on and get my money back. What is wrong with that? Why would I not try to get a refund for it when its not even officially released yet? And why should I not try to get my money back if they lied about shipping the boxes?
Its impossible to defend the box issue anyway you spin it.
Not really, its pretty simple, and again, if you clicked on the box saying you accept the terms of purchase and refund policy then you would know that they would deny a refund to you. If the game didn't have such problems we wouldn't be hearing this crap from you right now, thats just the honest truth, which you seem to dismiss. Don Juan pretty much called it out fairly well. If the game was complete and they wanted some additional polish, you'd be all for it, but you made a bad decision and you can't live with your decision. (not you in particular mccoy, but anyone who's purchased the game and didn't like it in beta)
as for slapshot
"No.. you are 100% wrong. Please... I did NOT accept any terms and agreements when I ordered the game. Nope.. no popups.. nothing I clicked on.. nadda. Part of THEIR terms with Visa is that THEY will deliver the product within a certain amount of time. You CANNOT charge someone in July and not deliver a product 6 months later and not give the money back if asked."
if you clicked on those agreements then thats a different story because thats what you signed into and THATS WHAT A PREORDER IS. If they didn't have those agreements on your preorder, then why are we even talking? Its like any MMO, when you click on the TOS agreements and violate it (whether you actually read it or not) and get banned, you can't get your money back son, its just not how this game is played. IF you didn't agree to the TOS then get your money back all day long for all I care. I'm not the one who has to deal with it any which way, I didn't waste money on a crap product I wasn't sure I was going to like or not. Visa or mastercard be damned, when you sign an agreement with a private company, you both have to live up to the terms of the agreement, visa, mastercard, paypall, and your bank are all financial institutions, they don't give a shit who gets the money as long as YOU give them theirs.. they aren't the noble companies you think they are standing up for consumers rights. They'll let it get tied up in litigation before they're out their money, you can be sure of that.
Anyways, this digression has gone on long enough.
Once again a perfect example of why buying pre-orders is for suckers.
I must be crazy since I pre-ordered the 1st day it was released. They said they would ship it in September, then pushed it back to December, now January. Probably going to push it back another few months, because of that people are getting refunds.
I can't say that I was insinuating that because then I could get flagged for trolling/flaming. But clearly you got what I eas saying.
A PRE order, means ordering a product that isn't ready yet. It also means the time of it being ready are an estimation, estimations change. Anyone that orders a PRE order that early in a game's creation and then gets mad when the date is pushed back is crazy. Ever seen an MMO that didn't get pushed back? Clearly it was going to happen.
I could care less if people are getting refunds, just like I could care less if people preordered to begin with. It still makes them ridiculous for doing it, and then ridiculous for getting upset over it. It also shows their lack of understanding with the world and how it works, or how to read what the offer actually is, or when the game will actually been released or or or or.
Personally I have nothing invested in this game and I wouldn't be affected if it did or didn't launch. I just find the whole situation of people buying something that isn't finished being made yet and then being shocked when the date gets pushed back and creating a dozen threads over it. You aren't going to change the mind of anyone who is interested in trying it once it's released so your war on the forums in gaining you nothing, just humorous reads for everyone else.
Just wanted to say that I will be buying 3 copies of this game because of all the Darkfall fans trying to hate on this game.
I don't like Darkfall.
Im def not trying to come off as a hater.
Im sure alot of us WANT this game to succeed, alot of us are tired of these themepark MMO's.
I really want to play this game, and ive said it..before for .. i wish somebody would invest into something like this, and throw 1-3 million at it and just let these guys roll! It would come out with 100k+ subs EASY in the first couple months.
People are looking for a way out, but they have nowhere to go and no other game to turn to. And then there are other people like me who refuse to play the trash but also want a somewhat complete game or atleast something to do.
Man if this game just had a nice dynamic spawn system for mobs, and a pvp system that had a point to it.. i would pick it up in hopes of them improving the game by alot in the next 6-8 months.
It would be awesome if that happened. I wish a company would purchase Starvault so get the ball rolling, but only if they kept the current vision of the game. Right now they are completely out of money and it will be a disasterous launch.
The game will not be complete at launch. This is a fact and has been said by the developers themselves many times. At this point, if you "wasted" your money on it, you didn't do enough research in the first place and should probably not be too many things anyway. They stated many many many times, that everything is subject to change, the game won't be complete, just playable, and that they may change the date of release and shipment. I'm no fanboy, but still. You need to research these things guys. Seriously.
Also, they are shipping the boxes from EUROPE and are probably not doing an overnight shipment as to prevent them from losing even more money.
I don't like how you are showing a biased opinion on this. I have met and talked to people who are perfectly happy playing this game now. And don't say "there's no one on the forums like that". Forums are for whining.
OK.. I think I said it in th eabove text but in case you missed it. I .. DID.. NOT.. CLICK.. ON.. ANY BUTTON.. WITH...ANY.. TOS AGREEMENT.
Sorry for the caps and the drawn out sentence but you seem to be having an argument over something that never happened. I did NOT buy a beta.. I bought a "DVD Box containing the game Mortal Online". Over 6 months ago. They ignored all attempts by myself and many others to obtain information or communication. I filed a complaint.. and got my money back.. plus interest. End of story. It's realy that simple.. There WAS no button to click with any agreement... (although rethorically even if their was some button it would be irrelevant as you cannot idefinately delay delivery of a product.)
I mean.. seriously.. if 6 months (and counting is OK).. where is the line? A year? At 12 months does it magically become OK? If they don;t deliver in 2 years?
No.. 6 months is WAY too long to hold someones money without delivering the product, and that is why they had to give back the money AND pay a processing fee.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
They sent an Email to a customer saying they started shipping between Christmas and New Years... No one in the world has admitted to receiving their shipment. Today is the 19th... that's not overnight shipping.. thats 22 days. Again.. Not one box has been delivered... Does that make any sense?
The best thing that can happen is for people to login as soon as they let the public in. Trust me.. those folks will see the reality of the game immediately and will know who was speaking truthfully. I don;t need to tell anyone.. they can see for themselves in a day or two.
Just think... I read they sold 10,000-12,000 units. There is such a large percentage of those people that just gave up on the game that they have to have a Public Stress Test. Just think how bad that is... you are forced to make a Stress Test the first thing your potential customers see in your game? Simply because there arent enough people still playing from that 10,000-12,000 to stress the only server....
You should be able to see for yourself in a day or two.. hang tight.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
YES.... that would be ideal. I thought we were going to have that with Shadowbane and Wolfpack/Ubisoft.. but it just didn;t work out. I still say that if those guys had a few really good extra programers and had been able to launch with way less bugs and lag/crashes that game would have ruled the roost for a long time. They even designed the game so that they could pretty easilly create new maps/worlds for different servers... What a shame... they had a crappy launch and never recovered.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The odds of them getting bought out are very, very slim. Even the art assets aren't stellar, though they are good -- but a good shop can whip those up in no time flat as they know how to use the tools like Grome and Speedtree properly, and the work is cut a lot shorter.
An MMO that has PvP at its core is a risky business... it's why you need a solid foundation, a solid business plan, a solid roadmap for that game. Because these games attract griefers. People 'ragequit' from losing their stuff, even if they say they don't mind. There are a lot of variables and the business plan has to be solid and set in stone if the game is to succeed.
The problem is, that since the main financeer is the CEO's dad, there was no need to have any of the above. The money was given, it was spent on things they thought they needed, and the business plan and roadmap seem to never have existed. They had some ideas in their head on how they wanted it to work -- unfortunately the lead designer has never shipped a title in his life before, and so the design of the game has been well... muddled, at best. Unfortunately it's a mish mosh right now -- a few systems that work, none of which work well, lots of ideas on paper with the idea of UO mage duels and the like, some amazing 'crafting' but no thought into how it ties into the economy or supply lines, no thought into the PvP beyond taking Age of Chivalry and trying to put it in (and failing), no thought into magic *at all*, etc etc.
Until a company that is well organized, has some experience, and has a solid business plan well... a game like this is never really going to stay around. We have evidence of this all around us, of course. Dark and Light, Fury, Warhammer, Darkfall, etc... all have big design flaws that ultimately keep them losing users regularly, or don't keep them for the long term. And despite the WOW naysayers, Blizzard looks at their audience and balances their changes with the ability to retain them on a long term. It's easy for them since they are building a big raiding/PvE game that has no loss on death. However for those with PvP and loss on death in their game like Darkfall, Shadowbane, and MO -- they need more thought into it. Darkfall works for a while because the seiges get fun. But as soon as people stop seiging, or the big guilds go dark or get busy or whatever -- the entire content of the game grinds to a halt. And that will be their failure, just like it will be in MO. Unfortunately for MO, nothing really seems to work at all, so they have the added pressure of making a game that is actually "a game" rather than a tech demo that is a big unreal mod.
I think it's fair to give people a warning before they buy. I wish more people had been cautious before they purchased MO because there are lots of people who have gotten refunds through their CC company, which has caused SV more trouble than if they simply hadn't preordered in the first place. I think those people were foolish to spend so much money on a game they knew nothing about, and when the beta didn't turn out to be like they'd expected, they wanted their money back...
That said, please don't make out Star Vault to be some malicious, money grabbing company. They aren't. They are a very small and inexperienced development team. Few (if any) have worked on a game in their lives. Most of the devs are in their 20's, and several of them are former interns. They also have no support team, so there's a reason they don't respond to emails requesting refunds. They clearly stated that refunds wouldn't be given (whether or not there are ways around this with Swedish law, I have no idea), so it makes sense that they wouldn't waste time responding to email requests asking for refunds, since they have already publicly stated the answer in their September 2009 update. As far as shipping the boxes go, it has only been 2 weeks since Maerlyn posted that the boxes have started to be shipped (http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/29774-quick-update-boxes.html). Furthermore, they are shipping to those places furthest away first (probably East Asia/Australia), so that the boxes will all reach their destination roughly the same time.. So it's likely they had started shipping to East Asia and Australia at the time of his post, but not yet to EU or US. I would hazard a guess that it takes an awful long time to ship a package from Sweden to Australia, so this would easily explain why US and EU folks haven't received their boxes yet. So no... there's no reason to think SV is some evil company lying to you about everything, which seems to be what you want people to believe.
I'm terribly sorry the beta hasn't lived up to your expectations. I'm terribly sorry that you are so hurt by the fact that SV has made mistakes (due mostly to their being an inexperienced dev company) that you now vilify them. It's one thing to inform, and it's another to try and claim that SV is lying or conducting their business maliciously. Unprofessional? Yeah, sure. I can see that. They're a brand new development company that has no experience, what did you expect? But malicious..? I see no reason to think they have been deliberately malicious. In fact, SV has been a lot more forthcoming than a lot of other devs in my experience. Yet you'll always be able to find some mistake that they've made and spin it off as something sinister.
My recommendation: Anyone who thinks $40-50 is a lot of money and you want to play a complete game, don't buy it. If you think there's any chance that you'll want a refund because you aren't satisfied with the state of the game, just wait a few months. Hell, forget about the game completely for a few months and next time you remember it, take a look at how it's doing. Then decide if you want to play. The only reasons to preorder at this point would be to 1) get 1 month free playtime because you know you want to play at release, or 2) you like SV's vision and you want to support the development of MO, regardless of its current state or the state you've anticipated it will be at release.
I personally think MO is definitely headed in the right direction. The vision is great, they just need enough subs to help them get there. They have a lot more stuff in store for the game, a lot of which has already been created, just not implemented for one reason or another (we saw the files in the combat beta build for siege weapons, heat maps, etc). Be patient, but don't give up on MO yet. Many MMOs have had terrible releases, but a lot of them have come a long way since then... here's to hoping the same will be true of MO.
I am not trying to say they are being maliciously on purpose. They may communicate better with their customers, but they do not deliver when the time is right. They are going to release a broken game in 2 weeks, can't spin it any other way. I honestly feel sorry for them. I know they only have 20 developers, but those excuses have to end if people are starting to feel like they spent money on something thinking its going to crash and burn. I think people should really deserve to know what is happening and to not listen to the hype from MO's followers saying "this is the best game ever!!!!!" when the only thing to do in it is craft weapons, make houses, explore (will take less than 1 day) and pvp with full loot. Nothing much more than that.
I don't think SV is a "money-grabbing" company. I think they are basically unethical in order to get their product launched.
If you give interviews that you link to on your main site, about how the game will have epic monsters that live only one time, and mage duels that are reminiscent of UO, and a living and breathing economy, and a magic system that's amazing, and combat that takes depth and skill, etc etc... people believe that what you are saying is the TRUTH.
Now if they release a bullet point saying "basic combat" and don't quantify it -- what do people expect? They expect what was said in the interviews, in the IRC chats, in the forums by the developers themselves. This is where SV has gotten a lot of credit, by being so "open" with the community. Unfortunately, their 'openness' was just to create hype around a game that did not exist, and will not exist.
Are they inexperienced? Sure they are. But if they are promising XYZ, and asking for money in order to show you that promise, then I expect one end of the bargain is fulfilled -- mine. Their end is lacking. And instead of being up front and honest, they have used their 'open communication' to literally start fights in the forums, taking it as a badge of honor to humiliate and attack forum members. They openly attack other developers like Aventurine, and have shown their colors when it comes to telling the truth, whether it be about what to expect in combat vis a vis the interviews, or that the boxes that people ordered have been shipped.
You said it yourself though -- a lot of people have nowhere else to go. I'm one of them. But at the same time, while those people that don't have anywhere else to go will cling on to MO until it breaths its last breath, there are people like myself who are realistic about development (and actually know a thing or two about it), enough to see that their entire process has been flawed, they used the term "beta" to get people buy a game that is BARELY an alpha, and that there is no way without significant reorganizational changes (ie, fire the lead designer, get an experienced lead programmer) that this game will come CLOSE to being playable. They bought the tools they have no idea how to use, and if they get packet loss, or network problems, or severe lag, etc... do you think they know enough how to turn on Wireshark or Ethereal and trace those packets? No, of course not. They rely solely on Epic's tech support, and if they can't pinpoint the problem, the problems just continue to exist because it's not the job of tech support to tell you what you did wrong, or where it's coming from.
In the end, having hope is a great thing, but when money is attached there are different expectations and I think everybody realizes that. Some people have hope and are putting it all in MO, ignoring all the glaring problems. And others who paid the money are disappointed because they were lured in by lies and half truths, and the idea that beta was feature complete. At the end of the day, we will see who's right. I have my own inclinations there -- but the more people support companies who lie in order to push a product through to launch, the more companies that do it will pop up. If anything, this is proof that customers are idiots, and more "MMO" companies will sprout up promising the world, and deliver a stick figure running around a barren landscape, because they promised "basic animations" and "part of the continent".
It's all about expectations. People keep lowering theirs in order to make MO seem like they are on track. I kept mine solid from the beginning and that's why I'm disappointed. And I'm not alone.
See above.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
1) He is the mod that posted how to get a refund
2) Blue colored words makes my head hurt, use red or something =P
1) He is the mod that posted how to get a refund
2) Blue colored words makes my head hurt, use red or something =P
To me red always looks ANGRY
I wish there was an easier way to wrap quotes around things on here. I'll try another color next time..
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm disappointed too for the most part. Not because I feel SV cheated us out, but because they have to this point failed to do much of what they set out to. I still have hope that they can turn things around in the future, but in order for that to happen they need to start making changes in how they do things. I think most of what you say is true, but I don't look at what they've told us as being unethical.
They said they will have one time epic monsters, they do. They may not have been implemented into beta, but I believe they do have them. They said there will be UO-like mage duels, and I remember seeing the files for magic spells in early beta builds, and there were a lot more than what's implemented now. So they exist somewhere, they haven't been implemented yet. The combat system is meant to have depth and take skill. The same is true of the economy. The "core" of these systems are set up in such a way as to make these things the primary goals. The things they said they have, I believe exist. The problem is things haven't gone according to plan. Some of these things have not yet been implemented for one reason or another. Some of these things didn't turn out quite like they had expected them to on paper. That doesn't mean that so long as these things exist somewhere (not in the game) that it makes the game ok. But it doesn't indicate to me that SV lied about anything, only that they bit off more than they could chew and things haven't gone like they had expected them to. The fault lies in their ability to plan, but again, I certainly don't think that was done intentionally. It all leads back to a lack of experience on their end
You don't have to sign up for their newsletter, they posted this information on their main page. They also included their refund policy when you purchased the game. Those who purchased should have read this first. I have little simpathy for anyone who didn't. Buyers need to take more responsibility for poor purchases made when the information is right there for them to read. If you didn't bother to read it, then I'm sorry, but you should have. You can still get a refund through your CC company if you haven't already, but let that be a lesson, since you might not be as fortunate in the future.
Not sure what to say about them saying they started sending out packages before New Year's. If that's true, then it makes me curious myself. I understand why they wouldn't give you a tracking number, since the added strain of the logistics surrounding the distribution of the tracking numbers to each and every customer would likely be a nightmare for them. But if they really did claim to have sent them out in December, then I'd like to get to the bottom of this myself...
I'm sure the devs didn't plan on there being tons of copies left of the game and being forced to reduce 25% off the price either. When I bought L4D, I paid $40, and the next week it went on sale for $10... Shit happens. :
Hi inferno. I made the letters red just for you.
LachrymoseQQ , do you have any clue about law?? Apparently from your post above you do not.
Let me make it very clear again for those that lack reading comprehension ..... YOU CAN'T LEGALLY ENTER INTO AN ILLEGAL AGREEMENT and that is what the NO REFUND policy is!!! Plain and simple it is crminal intent and is actionable in both US and EU courts of law.
It has been pointed out over and over what Visa / MC rules are, what EU law is, what US law is and SV has violated every f'n last one of these rules and laws in regards to mail order / delayed delivery sales. They DID NOT NOTIFY customers of a delay to shipping and offer either a refund or agreement to delay as required by both US and EU law. Forget the MC/VISA agreements. We are talking friggin LAW here, what part if that is so f'n hard to understand??? Are all you fawnbois really that dense or immature?
They were selling a product and the damn product WAS NOT BETA TESTING it was a box with a DVD included. They defaulted on their end of the contract and criminally neglected to follow requirements laid down in law as to how to handle a delay. They should be brought up on charges and the company disbanded with fines and jail time administered to the principals of the company.
Don't like that attitude? Well tough, that is the facts of life and how the law works. When some of you move out of mommies house you might learn that.
I would be happy to forward you the Email. I have posted it's contents in another thread.. but if you would like to see the original PM me an I will send it to you.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I bought the game at the start of block B and hated it. I tried to like it and played the mess for about two weeks before I couldn't take anymore. I went back after the last patch and still can't get into the game, it's just too much of a mess. I purchased the game using my bank card and when I tried to get a refund the bank told me I had to contact the company. I kinda figured "well fat chance of getting my money back" so I let it go. I appreciate the OP posting this information because I have recontacted the company giving them one more chance to refund my money before I go back to the bank.
Overall my purchase and experience with Starvault has been nothing but a disaster. It's unfortunate because I really don't mind "helping out" a bit like I did paying extra for a game but this mess will keep me from helping out any companies in the future by paying more.
Edited to add that I must be one of the rare 1 out of 10 people who don't like the game.
Glad I helped you out, hope you get your requested refund. Good luck.
skill cap means classes. Classes mean imbalanced 1v1 pvp. This is the reason I do not play WoW. Why do people think skill cap is such a good thing? is that the only way they can kill someone? True test of player skill is when your opponent has access to the exact same abilities you have like in Darkfall.
Actually the gear imbalance at end game makes the PvP unbalanced in WoW more than anything. Biggest fault is they went crazy with the gear stats, just to crazy. The classes themselves do ok with gear being about equal. I have to agree though once you have classes in a MMORPG it always means imbalance and PvP then has to be looked at as a team game as much as raiding is.