I have a strong feeling Wargh0ul plays and I know for a fact Hotjazz plays but why is there such a huge valley separating the truth about the fact that Darkfall is PVE? The only thing you are left with is that players really must hold on to the Darkfall is hardcore crap. Darkfall is PVE just let this conversation die. The game is what it is an insane PVE Grind period. The game really isn't about anything except who's got more willpower as far as who can stomach the pain of PVE. You log in as a new player and it looks good and the Mob AI is good but after about 45 minutes you must make your decision about the PVE pain ahead. If you can endure that amount of pain and think it might be worth the time you proceed. This decision has nothing to do with am I hardcore enough or can I handle full loot, only can I handle this amount of PVE.
The good news is that if you love PVE this game may have more than you can handle.
I've stuck it out about a month and my character is very strong. It's all about how much time you want to invest and how much you care about being a solo beast in pvp.
We know this, and that`s why we fight against it. Darkfall is a full-loot PVE mmo at the moment, and the best pvpers are the ones that kill most NPC. That`s the flaw in Darkfall, and the reason we have low populated servers. If a player kills 50000 goblins, he is "hardcore" enough to call himself a great pvper. And yes, goblins can do the job just as good as a cairn giant. It`s all about dedication, hard work, time and not about players skill. You all say the same, kill enough NPCs and you will do great in pvp.
And the grind is awful. You can can confirme this by all the "how to maximize you char fast" and "Xiphers hardcore NPC killer guide to get a low level pvp char in two months" posts. Invested time in killing NPC and afk harvest is the core of Darkfall, and it needs to stop while we still have a game.
And all those "team up to fight goblins" og "get two dedicated healer/buffers when you train melee" posts makes me cry blood. The grind is so bad they want you to team up to kill easy, boring mobs. Macroing is by far the fastest way to skill up any skill, no matter what anyone say. AV need to make the pvp skills/stats easy to get, and they can keep the crafting part slow for the level guys.
But the NPC grinders got one point right. Darkfall is a niche game and not for anyone. Darkfall not for casual players, crafters(everyone and his mother got all crafting skills) or pvpers. It is a niche mmo for hardcore PVE players.
. PvE is and always will be a means to PvP, thats what makes the game dynamic. What you are basically complaing about are the aspects of the game that make it an RPG. You are also wrong about crafting. Most people have maybe 1 craft skill maxed, and thats usually talioring becuase its cheap. The true crafters of the game, those who actually like crafting, have multiple crafts up and are generally in a hardcore PvP clan. Why?, it makes getting things for PvP easier. I only make my own bone armor, Indica Sin makes everything else I need. Thats how the game works and will always work.
[Mod Edit]
At least you agree there is a huge grind. I think thats all anyone is trying to say here.
The only reason there is a "huge grind" is because peopel feel like they need to level everything. If people didn't try to get the best of everything for the slight almost non-existent edge it offers we wouldn't be hearing costant QQ about grind. The things that remain a grind in game are: melee mastery due it being boring to melee mobs most of the time, sc due to not having a damage spell in the lower levels and being a pure utility skill, and HP due to stats leveling a proper gradual pace but HP being calculated in a manner that gives the person with the most "timed played" too big of an advantage. All these can be changed without reducing the amount of time actually required to get to the same "level"
PS: The person above this post wants to max out insanely fast because he/she can't stand fighting mobs. If macroing were allowed this person wouldn't be bitching right now. AV should just legalize macoring. In a full loot game, macroing doesn't hurt anyone and frees up play time to do things that people actually like doing rather than what they "have" to do.
I have a strong feeling Wargh0ul plays and I know for a fact Hotjazz plays but why is there such a huge valley separating the truth about the fact that Darkfall is PVE? The only thing you are left with is that players really must hold on to the Darkfall is hardcore crap. Darkfall is PVE just let this conversation die. The game is what it is an insane PVE Grind period. The game really isn't about anything except who's got more willpower as far as who can stomach the pain of PVE. You log in as a new player and it looks good and the Mob AI is good but after about 45 minutes you must make your decision about the PVE pain ahead. If you can endure that amount of pain and think it might be worth the time you proceed. This decision has nothing to do with am I hardcore enough or can I handle full loot, only can I handle this amount of PVE. The good news is that if you love PVE this game may have more than you can handle.
If you must maintain your relentless redundancy, then I might as well join you. There are a slew of FPS games that are available to you at this time, choose one. Many of them even contain surprising character development. Have you not yet waved the flag of beware enough already. You add nothing to any discussion in this forum but a continuous warning of mind bleeding PVE. That is incredibly misleading for a new player. Can you contribute nothing more after playing this game for over a month?
This is a different kind of MMORPG than you're used to obviously, you don't get to dominate vets after such a short stay. I actually get reminded of that everyday, and that's exactly how it should be. Otherwise why are you here? Why not pick any one of the other hundreds of mmo/fps games that offer what you seem to be begging for?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I personally enjoy PVE. I want people to play this game.
I also experience people telling me that I hate the game when actually I enjoy it. I think people get confused when they see others revealing the truth about the game and they automatically think that he or she must hate the game. We are simply stating the facts that this is a heavy PvE game with a huge grind. I've never said I disliked the game and I've never seen you say it either but people assume we do because we don't advertise darkfall at every chance we get and we don't mindlessly support every aspect of the game.
Then again I don't think im super hardcore man like most people who play this game so they are defending that "twitch skills hardcore full loot PvP" personality that they have hardcoded into their brains.
The thing is, there's more than one path to take in DF....more than one way. Just because you choose to PVE yourselves into burnout, doesn't mean that others have to, or that your claims of it being a "PVE heavy grind fest" are true.
Alternatives have been given repeatedly, but you'd rather whine about the grind anyway, wether you claim to enjoy the game or not.
nearly every thread on this forum gets hijacked into a PVE / grind whine by the same couple of posters, and it's not necessary....it's dangerously close to trolling, in fact.
You are an idiot. PvE is and always will be a means to PvP, thats what makes the game dynamic. What you are basically complaing about are the aspects of the game that make it an RPG. You are also wrong about crafting. Most people have maybe 1 craft skill maxed, and thats usually talioring becuase its cheap. The true crafters of the game, those who actually like crafting, have multiple crafts up and are generally in a hardcore PvP clan. Why?, it makes getting things for PvP easier. I only make my own bone armor, Indica Sin makes everything else I need. Thats how the game works and will always work.
Arf, why do some of you think RPG - role playing game means you have to kill loads of NPCs. I don`t think players in Darkfall kills NPCs and role play some kind of hunter. "hey thee old troll, now I`m going to kill you and your three friends a hundred times" When your skills are done, why would you kill npcs in your RPG? I personally would kill mobs to get R50 weapons, money for regs and mats for enchanting.
I play alot, and I got 100 in jewelsmithing, tailoring, master weaponsmithing, master armorsmith and I can make q3 enchants. My harvesting skills are maxed...all of them. I haven`t bother to max the rest of the crafting skills as it doesn`t do me any good in PVP. I`m in a "hardcore pvp clan" and I will attend any large battle. My city is attacked several times EACH hour, but thats usually the boring 1-2 man fights. They try to kill the macroers or crafters, and run when some attacks back. There are absolutly no "safe" NPC spots around my city.
I beta tested this game, I`ve killed more than 17k boring npcs on this char and 7k on my alt. I have 75+ in most of the pvp spells and my health is 365. I really don`t care what some "I have played Darkfall for two weeks and it`s the best game ever" say. You however should know better. I have the right to voice my opinion when you "killing NPC is role-playing and the core of Darkfall" crowd praise every aspect of this game. I know the grind is the reason we have a low population on bouth servers.
Arf, why do some of you think RPG - role playing game means you have to kill loads of NPCs. I don`t think players in Darkfall kills NPCs and role play some kind of hunter. "hey thee old troll, now I`m going to kill you and your three friends a hundred times" When your skills are done, why would you kill npcs in your RPG? I personally would kill mobs to get R50 weapons, money for regs and mats for enchanting.
This.
I kill for gold, regs, gear and enchanting mats. I don't sit there and grind the same damn spawn all day, and then bitch about it....I simply choose not to do it.
Everyone has that choice....they have no one to blame but themselves if they decide to kill mobs all damn day.
However, it IS the nature of an RPG to feature character development. But it doesn't have to be turned into a grind. It's not a fucking race.
However, it IS the nature of an RPG to feature character development. But it doesn't have to be turned into a grind. It's not a fucking race.
I would agreed with you if it was a normal PVE mmo, but this is a full-loot pvp mmo. We lose 90% of the new players the first month, and they wanted to play Darkfall. If we could make them vets faster, more of them would stay. Therefore I fight against the grind. I got a decent char, but we need more new players. I`m not the only one conserned about the future of Darkfall. This is from the EU1 forum.
-at this point, the only reason each alliance holds this many holdings, is because there is not enough people to populate all holdings.
-things will change as the population goes up, if it doesnt...R.I.P. DF
-The increase of population will lead to a more balanced map full of life instead on certain places. Patience.
-Things is this game will slowly just die if they do not do anything about the population.
Thing is they actually have a good stream of new players coming in but 95% of them quit.
Why? Cuz it is to god damn hard to compete with the vets.
It takes about 5-6 months of constant macroing to even have the char as a veteran player...
Now they even bann players from macroing. l..o..l
So as it currently looks the population will only go down...
-Fuck sake where have this game came to, PR field 70 people and that is now a Zerg. 6 months ago Aesir could nearly field that number alone and then we were an ordinary group...
-Large scale is the best fun, especially the ongoing wars
-AV promising 10K players online at the same time and battle with thousands of players, uhm a Zerg these days are 30 people...
Maybe I am just living in a old dream and can't accept the new Counter-Strike that DF has become.
-Zerg=Good Zerging=Fun And Av needs to DO SOME MORE ADVERTISING CMON !
-lets hope trials pull thru and some new zerg alliance forms and stirs up the pollitics more.
So please stop pretendig we are doing fine. Those of us that really play and not just farm NPCs, knows we are in troubble. im praying for some magical patch in DF2010.
The thing is, there's more than one path to take in DF....more than one way. Just because you choose to PVE yourselves into burnout, doesn't mean that others have to, or that your claims of it being a "PVE heavy grind fest" are true. Alternatives have been given repeatedly, but you'd rather whine about the grind anyway, wether you claim to enjoy the game or not. nearly every thread on this forum gets hijacked into a PVE / grind whine by the same couple of posters, and it's not necessary....it's dangerously close to trolling, in fact.
I don't quite understand why you think I am whining. I've never whined about the grind in darkfall only been blunt with the truth. I don't lie to players who are thinking about purchasing the game like most of the people on here who almost seem to be employees of aventurine they are so adamantly defending them.
I do however understand why you would call it trolling. It's hard to dispute the truth so use the default argument of "hes a troll."
However, it IS the nature of an RPG to feature character development. But it doesn't have to be turned into a grind. It's not a fucking race.
I would agreed with you if it was a normal PVE mmo, but this is a full-loot pvp mmo. We lose 90% of the new players the first month, and they wanted to play Darkfall. If we could make them vets faster, more of them would stay. Therefore I fight against the grind. I got a decent char, but we need more new players. I`m not the only one conserned about the future of Darkfall. This is from the EU1 forum.
-at this point, the only reason each alliance holds this many holdings, is because there is not enough people to populate all holdings.
-things will change as the population goes up, if it doesnt...R.I.P. DF
-The increase of population will lead to a more balanced map full of life instead on certain places. Patience.
-Things is this game will slowly just die if they do not do anything about the population.
Thing is they actually have a good stream of new players coming in but 95% of them quit.
Why? Cuz it is to god damn hard to compete with the vets.
It takes about 5-6 months of constant macroing to even have the char as a veteran player...
Now they even bann players from macroing. l..o..l
So as it currently looks the population will only go down...
-Fuck sake where have this game came to, PR field 70 people and that is now a Zerg. 6 months ago Aesir could nearly field that number alone and then we were an ordinary group...
-Large scale is the best fun, especially the ongoing wars
-AV promising 10K players online at the same time and battle with thousands of players, uhm a Zerg these days are 30 people...
Maybe I am just living in a old dream and can't accept the new Counter-Strike that DF has become.
-Zerg=Good Zerging=Fun And Av needs to DO SOME MORE ADVERTISING CMON !
-lets hope trials pull thru and some new zerg alliance forms and stirs up the pollitics more.
So please stop pretendig we are doing fine. Those of us that really play and not just farm NPCs, knows we are in troubble. im praying for some magical patch in DF2010.
I agree DFO needs more players but why would pulling an NGE accomplish that? Where is the evidence that making DFO easy will increase subscriptions? The evidence when looking at these decisions made in past MMORPGs points to the loyal playerbase quitting in disgust while the new potential playerbase doesn't materialize and you're left with an empty server listening to crickets!
There is no evidence to state that making a game easier increases the playerbase, in fact the evidence is all to the contrary and with PvP games it just destroys the playerbase. You want an easy MMOFPS with no grind and you're on a level footing with Vets? Play WW2Online and stop whining here. That's a really dead PvP game but according to yourself it should be thriving due to having absoloutley zero PvE grind, right? Wrong.
Thankfully Aventurine aren't going to dumb down DFO and give new players a get out of character progression free card whilst shafting the playerbase. If they do I may as well play WW2Online as it costs less, will be exactly the same and will be just as dead! If they ever pull an NGE I hope by that time Mortal Online has been sorted out because then I'd just jump straight into that. I don't pay my subscription for companies to screw up games but improve them.
DFO needs more players but there are other ways, the free trials a graphical upgrade that's coming. I'd rather be playing with a few like minded PvPers than a horde of carebears in a dumbed down version of a Darkfall. In fact if I thought like you I'd probably just quit and subscribe to WoW!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I've noticed a trend on this forum and the official forums of people defending the game by telling detractors to stop being a whiney carebear and that they just don't understand the game. Well I for one understand the game, I like the idea behind the game, I waited months for the trial so I could buy it with confidence, and then I played the shit out of it so that I could get a good idea of it. I just don't like it. It wasn't what it was advertised as, it wasn't hardcore PvP. It was more of a grind than any other game I've played with a heavy PvE focus and PvP that consisted mostly of griefing those who couldn't fight back.
I see these sentiments echoed by many others here and the same few people just keep insulting them and telling them to find another game which makes me realize that the most off putting thing about the game isn't its mechanics, but its community, half of which seem bent on purifying the ranks until there are no infidels which isn't really a great way to retain new players, even ones who actually want to play. I want to like this game and I would love to come back to it in the future to see it worked out a little better, but if the most vocal players are going to do nothing but bash anyone and everyone who dissents from their opinion I do see that being very likely.
I've noticed a trend on this forum and the official forums of people defending the game by telling detractors to stop being a whiney carebear and that they just don't understand the game. Well I for one understand the game, I like the idea behind the game, I waited months for the trial so I could buy it with confidence, and then I played the shit out of it so that I could get a good idea of it. I just don't like it. It wasn't what it was advertised as, it wasn't hardcore PvP. It was more of a grind than any other game I've played with a heavy PvE focus and PvP that consisted mostly of griefing those who couldn't fight back. I see these sentiments echoed by many others here and the same few people just keep insulting them and telling them to find another game which makes me realize that the most off putting thing about the game isn't its mechanics, but its community, half of which seem bent on purifying the ranks until there are no infidels which isn't really a great way to retain new players, even ones who actually want to play. I want to like this game and I would love to come back to it in the future to see it worked out a little better, but if the most vocal players are going to do nothing but bash anyone and everyone who dissents from their opinion I do see that being very likely.
This x100.
I'd love to add more, but that pretty much says it all. Only thing I can really say is that I'd gladly come back if some things were actually adjusted. Until then, DFO is actually still installed/updated on my PC, and hasn't been played in working on 2 months.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
I've noticed a trend on this forum and the official forums of people defending the game by telling detractors to stop being a whiney carebear and that they just don't understand the game. Well I for one understand the game, I like the idea behind the game, I waited months for the trial so I could buy it with confidence, and then I played the shit out of it so that I could get a good idea of it. I just don't like it. It wasn't what it was advertised as, it wasn't hardcore PvP. It was more of a grind than any other game I've played with a heavy PvE focus and PvP that consisted mostly of griefing those who couldn't fight back. I see these sentiments echoed by many others here and the same few people just keep insulting them and telling them to find another game which makes me realize that the most off putting thing about the game isn't its mechanics, but its community, half of which seem bent on purifying the ranks until there are no infidels which isn't really a great way to retain new players, even ones who actually want to play. I want to like this game and I would love to come back to it in the future to see it worked out a little better, but if the most vocal players are going to do nothing but bash anyone and everyone who dissents from their opinion I do see that being very likely.
The thing is, the game has been out for over a year. Let's say that tommorow AV made it so every newbie in leather gear had a shot against any vet. Do you think vets would be happy about that? What about the months and yes year some of them put in towards developing their characters? All of that would be basically rendered pointless. Do you think they would happily stay in the game if this happens?
What you guys are calling for is a different game. You want an fps-style MMOPRG where newbies have a chance against vets. This isn't the game and there's basically no way for AV to make Darkfall into that game without seriously endangering the whole enterprise.
I think what you're interpreting as people being "bent on purifying the ranks until there are no infidels" is actually people that are probably just sick of seeing thread after thread trying to change Darkfall into something it isn't and never will be.
And you really can't calculate how many people making it easy would bring in vs. how it is. I for one like the challenge and look forward to some meaningful progression in a game for once. I wouldn't be nearly as interested in the game if it was made easier. So Darkfall may gain you as a sub, but it would lose me. That's a wash, and it requires potentially driving away most of the vets of the game. Do you see why it's a pointless discussion?
Let's try it on another game that is similar: Eve. Let's say tomorrow that they made it so everyone in Eve had a shot against everyone else. Do you think people that have played that game for years would be happy? They could make a new game that's like Eve with the new rules, but changing Eve, like Darkfall, that drastically, is impossible. What you're asking for is comparable to wanting a newbie in WoW to be competative in Arena against level 80s.
And you can argue that it wasn't or isn't "what it's advertised to be", but I for one never trust advertising, and believe it or not, after reading up on Darkfall over the past year, it doesn't seem as rough as many have made it out to be. Apparently some people dissapointed at launch. Others weren't (besides the server trouble the game had). It's been a year though and people pretty much know what they're getting with Darkfall. That issue seems like it should be laid to rest by now.
When I read the following by the OP:
I really wanted to believe that Darkfall would be [a game] that relied on twitch based skills as much as player progression, one that allowed you to jump right into the action and defend yourself from or attack any interlopers who crossed you.
I have to wonder where the hell he got the idea that Darkfall was like that, besides his own imagination? I could "really want to believe" that Darkfall is any number of things, but if I wanted to have a decent idea of what the game was like, I'd read up on it.
I've noticed a trend on this forum and the official forums of people defending the game by telling detractors to stop being a whiney carebear and that they just don't understand the game. Well I for one understand the game, I like the idea behind the game, I waited months for the trial so I could buy it with confidence, and then I played the shit out of it so that I could get a good idea of it. I just don't like it. It wasn't what it was advertised as, it wasn't hardcore PvP. It was more of a grind than any other game I've played with a heavy PvE focus and PvP that consisted mostly of griefing those who couldn't fight back. I see these sentiments echoed by many others here and the same few people just keep insulting them and telling them to find another game which makes me realize that the most off putting thing about the game isn't its mechanics, but its community, half of which seem bent on purifying the ranks until there are no infidels which isn't really a great way to retain new players, even ones who actually want to play. I want to like this game and I would love to come back to it in the future to see it worked out a little better, but if the most vocal players are going to do nothing but bash anyone and everyone who dissents from their opinion I do see that being very likely.
Did you join a clan? If so which one?
Why do I criticise people such as yourself who complain about being rolled as a noob? You probably didn't join a clan or look for help but went out to farm goblins got rolled and then did it again with the same results. It's like watching a guy bang his head on a wall for hours then complain that he has a headache later, sorry but I just have no sympathy.
You need to join a decent clan and get some help, playing solo at a starter city is going to mean you'll get picked on. It's stated here time and time again and there are starter guides but people still choose to ignore it and go into theme park solo friendly mode then QQ later.
If you still have time and are on EU-1 send me a PM and you can join our clan if you use ventrilo and I'll do my best to help you out. Otherwise Darkfall will be a frustrating experience, after 4 months play nearly and 340 HP and some pretty decent skills I don't think I could manage for long solo before I hit a serious road block.
What you call purifying the ranks I call getting rid of the fools that can't handle being bullied online and then come here to cry about it, do I look like their mother? Seriously you have a problem with the game say your piece and go play a theme park MMORPG, but don't get a thistle in your arse when someone thinks you're being a cyber whimp!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Like I said before, I joined the NEW clan on the NA server. Grouped with some of them a bit, but it was hard to find a group of people that wanted to do what you wanted to and even in a group I still got ganked. Hell I got ganked in the middle of our city with 10 other clan members standing around. Your response is a great example of what I'm talking about with the community attitude, assuming since I didn't have a good time I was doing it wrong and clearly don't like sandbox games. Well I did everything i was told, joined the newbie clan, grouped with people as much as possible, leveled up only useful skills and as a matter of fact I love sandbox games, Pre-CU SWG was probably my favorite MMO. This game should be perfect for me, I love PvP, FPS, and sandbox games, but it doesn't seem to deliver on any of those things. If you feel different thats great, but don't act like anyother opinion is invalid.
Holdenhamlet: You're kidding right? Why did I think it was twitch based? Try looking up how the combat system is described pretty much anywhere. I knew player stats would come into play at some level but I never got the impression they would have such a drastic effect on combat as they do.
I've noticed a trend on this forum and the official forums of people defending the game by telling detractors to stop being a whiney carebear and that they just don't understand the game. Well I for one understand the game, I like the idea behind the game, I waited months for the trial so I could buy it with confidence, and then I played the shit out of it so that I could get a good idea of it. I just don't like it. It wasn't what it was advertised as, it wasn't hardcore PvP. It was more of a grind than any other game I've played with a heavy PvE focus and PvP that consisted mostly of griefing those who couldn't fight back. I see these sentiments echoed by many others here and the same few people just keep insulting them and telling them to find another game which makes me realize that the most off putting thing about the game isn't its mechanics, but its community, half of which seem bent on purifying the ranks until there are no infidels which isn't really a great way to retain new players, even ones who actually want to play. I want to like this game and I would love to come back to it in the future to see it worked out a little better, but if the most vocal players are going to do nothing but bash anyone and everyone who dissents from their opinion I do see that being very likely.
The thing is, the game has been out for over a year. Let's say that tommorow AV made it so every newbie in leather gear had a shot against any vet. Do you think vets would be happy about that? What about the months and yes year some of them put in towards developing their characters? All of that would be basically rendered pointless. Do you think they would happily stay in the game if this happens?
What you guys are calling for is a different game. You want an fps-style MMOPRG where newbies have a chance against vets. This isn't the game and there's basically no way for AV to make Darkfall into that game without seriously endangering the whole enterprise.
I think what you're interpreting as people being "bent on purifying the ranks until there are no infidels" is actually people that are probably just sick of seeing thread after thread trying to change Darkfall into something it isn't and never will be.
And you really can't calculate how many people making it easy would bring in vs. how it is. I for one like the challenge and look forward to some meaningful progression in a game for once. I wouldn't be nearly as interested in the game if it was made easier. So Darkfall may gain you as a sub, but it would lose me. That's a wash, and it requires potentially driving away most of the vets of the game. Do you see why it's a pointless discussion?
Let's try it on another game that is similar: Eve. Let's say tomorrow that they made it so everyone in Eve had a shot against everyone else. Do you think people that have played that game for years would be happy? They could make a new game that's like Eve with the new rules, but changing Eve, like Darkfall, that drastically, is impossible. What you're asking for is comparable to wanting a newbie in WoW to be competative in Arena against level 80s.
And you can argue that it wasn't or isn't "what it's advertised to be", but I for one never trust advertising, and believe it or not, after reading up on Darkfall over the past year, it doesn't seem as rough as many have made it out to be. Apparently some people dissapointed at launch. Others weren't (besides the server trouble the game had). It's been a year though and people pretty much know what they're getting with Darkfall. That issue seems like it should be laid to rest by now.
When I read the following by the OP:
I really wanted to believe that Darkfall would be [a game] that relied on twitch based skills as much as player progression, one that allowed you to jump right into the action and defend yourself from or attack any interlopers who crossed you.
I have to wonder where the hell he got the idea that Darkfall was like that, besides his own imagination? I could "really want to believe" that Darkfall is any number of things, but if I wanted to have a decent idea of what the game was like, I'd read up on it.
Hate to burst your bubble but MMOs don't make money by keeping vets. They make money by selling copies of the game.
That being said I don't think a newbie character should have a chance against a toon that has 6 months of play time.
The OP should look up some Video. There is a lot of good ones out there that explain exactly what you need to do to have a PvP ready character.
Like I said before, I joined the NEW clan on the NA server. Grouped with some of them a bit, but it was hard to find a group of people that wanted to do what you wanted to and even in a group I still got ganked. Hell I got ganked in the middle of our city with 10 other clan members standing around. Your response is a great example of what I'm talking about with the community attitude, assuming since I didn't have a good time I was doing it wrong and clearly don't like sandbox games. Well I did everything i was told, joined the newbie clan, grouped with people as much as possible, leveled up only useful skills and as a matter of fact I love sandbox games, Pre-CU SWG was probably my favorite MMO. This game should be perfect for me, I love PvP, FPS, and sandbox games, but it doesn't seem to deliver on any of those things. If you feel different thats great, but don't act like anyother opinion is invalid.
Holdenhamlet: You're kidding right? Why did I think it was twitch based? Try looking up how the combat system is described pretty much anywhere. I knew player stats would come into play at some level but I never got the impression they would have such a drastic effect on combat as they do.
Well first I'd actually advise against joining NEW, atleast on EU-1 because every low life griefer and his mate have war decced NEW to get their jollies. I didn't say your opinion is invalid just that I think the problems you and many others complain about can easily be avoided by finding a decent clan. There's a whole section in these forums dedicated to clans advertising for members, all you have to do is find one with a city and apply until you get accepted. It really is that simple.
I played SWG pre-cu and was an MBH/MC on Bria for alot of it and you know I heard the same whines from many Jedi that I PWNED. Recived alot of hate mail from them and saw them QQ in the forums on a regular basis until Jedi was nerfed to the point everyone can get it and it wasn't worth shit then they all quit and now the game is dead!
As for stats and skills making an impact on PvP, well of course they do who ever said they don't? The fact is though that some are better at PvP full stop and I get owned by guys with weaker chars but better skills often. You've only been playing a week and can only make a judgement based on that time playing. You got owned alot, were you suprised? If so why? If not what is the problem? You've played no more than a month probably a week and you think you should be able to fight off an '08er? Why?
What you're saying makes no sense to me, no one likes getting owned but you probably got told to bank often as you'll be ganked often right? So why the complaining? Did you think you'd enjoy getting ganked but found out to the contrary? Did you believe you'd win some fights against chars that have better stats controlled by players with better experience?
You seem shocked that an older player is so much better than your sub 1 week old char, can you state what you expected the difference to be exactly? Please point out an MMORPG you've played where you you feel the balance was right between a week old char and 1 year old char in PvP so we can all get an idea of what you expected.
Agricola.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Let's try it on another game that is similar: Eve. Let's say tomorrow that they made it so everyone in Eve had a shot against everyone else. Do you think people that have played that game for years would be happy? They could make a new game that's like Eve with the new rules, but changing Eve, like Darkfall, that drastically, is impossible. What you're asking for is comparable to wanting a newbie in WoW to be competative in Arena against level 80s.
Everyone in EVE does have a shot against everyone else. A 3 month and a 3 year player aren't on a level footing when it comes to versatility, but it's very far from unkown for 3 year old players to lose ships to 3 monthers. If a player in a T1 cruiser like an T1 Autocannon-fitted Rupture catches a guy in a sniper-fitted battleship, the battleship is going to die in a fire even if it's fully Tech2/Faction fit, and piloted by an all level 5 skills 7 year veteran.
I dont know if that scenario could translate to Darkfall. I guess the equivalent would be something like a knife fighter catching a pikeman in a dark alleyway and getting inside his swing. But swapping a ship in EVE essentially means leaving the fight and getting home. Swapping a weapon in Darkfall is likely going to be much quicker.
Let's try it on another game that is similar: Eve. Let's say tomorrow that they made it so everyone in Eve had a shot against everyone else. Do you think people that have played that game for years would be happy? They could make a new game that's like Eve with the new rules, but changing Eve, like Darkfall, that drastically, is impossible. What you're asking for is comparable to wanting a newbie in WoW to be competative in Arena against level 80s.
Everyone in EVE does have a shot against everyone else. A 3 month and a 3 year player aren't on a level footing when it comes to versatility, but it's very far from unkown for 3 year old players to lose ships to 3 monthers. If a player in a T1 cruiser like an T1 Autocannon-fitted Rupture catches a guy in a sniper-fitted battleship, the battleship is going to die in a fire even if it's fully Tech2/Faction fit, and piloted by an all level 5 skills 7 year veteran.
I dont know if that scenario could translate to Darkfall. I guess the equivalent would be something like a knife fighter catching a pikeman in a dark alleyway and getting inside his swing. But swapping a ship in EVE essentially means leaving the fight and getting home. Swapping a weapon in Darkfall is likely going to be much quicker.
3 monthers in Darkfall do have a shot against vets. What the OP is talking about is 3 dayers, not 3 monthers.
I agree DFO needs more players but why would pulling an NGE accomplish that? Where is the evidence that making DFO easy will increase subscriptions? The evidence when looking at these decisions made in past MMORPGs points to the loyal playerbase quitting in disgust while the new potential playerbase doesn't materialize and you're left with an empty server listening to crickets!
There is no evidence to state that making a game easier increases the playerbase, in fact the evidence is all to the contrary and with PvP games it just destroys the playerbase. You want an easy MMOFPS with no grind and you're on a level footing with Vets? Play WW2Online and stop whining here. That's a really dead PvP game but according to yourself it should be thriving due to having absoloutley zero PvE grind, right? Wrong.
Thankfully Aventurine aren't going to dumb down DFO and give new players a get out of character progression free card whilst shafting the playerbase. If they do I may as well play WW2Online as it costs less, will be exactly the same and will be just as dead! If they ever pull an NGE I hope by that time Mortal Online has been sorted out because then I'd just jump straight into that. I don't pay my subscription for companies to screw up games but improve them.
DFO needs more players but there are other ways, the free trials a graphical upgrade that's coming. I'd rather be playing with a few like minded PvPers than a horde of carebears in a dumbed down version of a Darkfall. In fact if I thought like you I'd probably just quit and subscribe to WoW!
Hah, we don`t have a playersbase. We have a few thousand players killing NPCs in a vain hope to someday have a competative pvp experience. I haven`t seen you in the last large pvp battles, do you still play?
I got the evidence I need from RL. I got friends who are former DF players, and the reason they quit was the grind. Let the crafting skill be the grind, let the quest for mats be the grind or let the quest for high end ships and siege eqipment be the grind.
Why does the grind have to be the pvp skills in a full-loot pvp mmo?
Ohh, and I`m looking at MO too, but not for the same reason you do. MO are suppose to have faster skillgain, and I would leave in an instant if they got that game fixed.
I agree DFO needs more players but why would pulling an NGE accomplish that? Where is the evidence that making DFO easy will increase subscriptions? The evidence when looking at these decisions made in past MMORPGs points to the loyal playerbase quitting in disgust while the new potential playerbase doesn't materialize and you're left with an empty server listening to crickets!
There is no evidence to state that making a game easier increases the playerbase, in fact the evidence is all to the contrary and with PvP games it just destroys the playerbase. You want an easy MMOFPS with no grind and you're on a level footing with Vets? Play WW2Online and stop whining here. That's a really dead PvP game but according to yourself it should be thriving due to having absoloutley zero PvE grind, right? Wrong.
Thankfully Aventurine aren't going to dumb down DFO and give new players a get out of character progression free card whilst shafting the playerbase. If they do I may as well play WW2Online as it costs less, will be exactly the same and will be just as dead! If they ever pull an NGE I hope by that time Mortal Online has been sorted out because then I'd just jump straight into that. I don't pay my subscription for companies to screw up games but improve them.
DFO needs more players but there are other ways, the free trials a graphical upgrade that's coming. I'd rather be playing with a few like minded PvPers than a horde of carebears in a dumbed down version of a Darkfall. In fact if I thought like you I'd probably just quit and subscribe to WoW!
Hah, we don`t have a playersbase. We have a few thousand players killing NPCs in a vain hope to someday have a competative pvp experience. I haven`t seen you in the last large pvp battles, do you still play?
I got the evidence I need from RL. I got friends who are former DF players, and the reason they quit was the grind. Let the crafting skill be the grind, let the quest for mats be the grind or let the quest for high end ships and siege eqipment be the grind.
Why does the grind have to be the pvp skills in a full-loot pvp mmo?
Ohh, and I`m looking at MO too, but not for the same reason you do. MO are suppose to have faster skillgain, and I would leave in an instant if they got that game fixed.
For me there can be much extracted from how you worded these phrase about your position.
The things you mention, required mats, mats for ships, mats for siege equipements, mats for crafting are the not grind but the usual economical preparation that gives combat an additional economic dimension.
These SITUATIONAL dimension of combat warfare is been then added to the longterm preparations and STRENGTH of the army (represented by the individuals and members of the force). Strength of the army shows after training and PRACTICE, the "humancapital" in the equation so to speak.
A long and difficult process in regards to that gives clans who are more organized / have better dedicated clanmembers or are otherwise better situated for training the army better to excell in that. That dimension would be taken away if all become faster and easier litle rambos..
Beside of clanwarfare, the world is big and there has to be incentives to go out, not only for preparations and incase there is a siege at weekend. We all know that PvP's tend to keep themself in one hotspot and duell all day and refuse to explore and go out in the wild. But if the gamemechanics would tolerate these behaviour we would soon have the "bloodwall situation" again, for that the gamemechnics give you the incentive of higher PvE gains to go out and visit the big world. You STILL can ignore that and just stick to the consequence of lower gains only through PvP. Its an option, if you don't want to kill mobs just don't do it and live with the fact that you skillgains will be smaller from PvP.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Let's try it on another game that is similar: Eve. Let's say tomorrow that they made it so everyone in Eve had a shot against everyone else. Do you think people that have played that game for years would be happy? They could make a new game that's like Eve with the new rules, but changing Eve, like Darkfall, that drastically, is impossible. What you're asking for is comparable to wanting a newbie in WoW to be competative in Arena against level 80s.
Everyone in EVE does have a shot against everyone else. A 3 month and a 3 year player aren't on a level footing when it comes to versatility, but it's very far from unkown for 3 year old players to lose ships to 3 monthers. If a player in a T1 cruiser like an T1 Autocannon-fitted Rupture catches a guy in a sniper-fitted battleship, the battleship is going to die in a fire even if it's fully Tech2/Faction fit, and piloted by an all level 5 skills 7 year veteran.
I dont know if that scenario could translate to Darkfall. I guess the equivalent would be something like a knife fighter catching a pikeman in a dark alleyway and getting inside his swing. But swapping a ship in EVE essentially means leaving the fight and getting home. Swapping a weapon in Darkfall is likely going to be much quicker.
3 monthers in Darkfall do have a shot against vets. What the OP is talking about is 3 dayers, not 3 monthers.
The same argument applies, except that the 3-dayers in EVE would have a more limited range of possible targets. There's a fairly famous vid on youtube of 2 guys making 1-day alts, putting them into Rifters (T1 frigates) and going on a killing spree. Player skill and a wllingness to accept trivial losses allow very low skill characters to be used with considerable success.
Just as an FYI. I usually dont read long posts on why the game is bad UNLESS I see the name of a game that is currently out that the author thinks is better. Its a personal standing rule I have. So I scanned and I might have missed it, if so sorry about that.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
However, it IS the nature of an RPG to feature character development. But it doesn't have to be turned into a grind. It's not a fucking race.
I would agreed with you if it was a normal PVE mmo, but this is a full-loot pvp mmo. We lose 90% of the new players the first month, and they wanted to play Darkfall. If we could make them vets faster, more of them would stay. Therefore I fight against the grind. I got a decent char, but we need more new players. I`m not the only one conserned about the future of Darkfall. This is from the EU1 forum.
-at this point, the only reason each alliance holds this many holdings, is because there is not enough people to populate all holdings.
-things will change as the population goes up, if it doesnt...R.I.P. DF
-The increase of population will lead to a more balanced map full of life instead on certain places. Patience.
-Things is this game will slowly just die if they do not do anything about the population.
Thing is they actually have a good stream of new players coming in but 95% of them quit.
Why? Cuz it is to god damn hard to compete with the vets.
It takes about 5-6 months of constant macroing to even have the char as a veteran player...
Now they even bann players from macroing. l..o..l
So as it currently looks the population will only go down...
-Fuck sake where have this game came to, PR field 70 people and that is now a Zerg. 6 months ago Aesir could nearly field that number alone and then we were an ordinary group...
-Large scale is the best fun, especially the ongoing wars
-AV promising 10K players online at the same time and battle with thousands of players, uhm a Zerg these days are 30 people...
Maybe I am just living in a old dream and can't accept the new Counter-Strike that DF has become.
-Zerg=Good Zerging=Fun And Av needs to DO SOME MORE ADVERTISING CMON !
-lets hope trials pull thru and some new zerg alliance forms and stirs up the pollitics more.
So please stop pretendig we are doing fine. Those of us that really play and not just farm NPCs, knows we are in troubble. im praying for some magical patch in DF2010.
If new players can't handle the need to advance their character, then they should go back to FPS games. I can't think of a single MMORPG that gives you an uber character from day 1.....or day 7 for that matter.
And yes....DOOOOOOM posts. People have been predicting the doom of Darkfall for over a year now. But, as recently demonstrated in another thread detailing the number of active players in the game, the population has been steadily increasing.
What makes the servers seem less populated than they were a year ago is the fact that the player base was split in two with the advent of NA1.
Yes, some new players will quit. They will get looted and quit, they will realise that it takes a bit of effort to advance and quit, they won't like the fact that there aren't quests and quit.....simply put, they won't like the game. This is the same as it is in any other game....not every MMORPG appeals to every type of player.
I tried WoW once. I quit within the first 3 days. I didn't like it....but I didn't rage in their forums forever about how the game needed to be a sandbox, and needed to have full loot.
It is what it is, and you either like it, or don't. But if you don't, there no sense crying for the game to be changed, let it be and let those who DO enjoy it have their game the way it is.
It is beyond absurd to insist that everyone shares your tastes, and will all quit the game if it's not changed.
Comments
I have a strong feeling Wargh0ul plays and I know for a fact Hotjazz plays but why is there such a huge valley separating the truth about the fact that Darkfall is PVE? The only thing you are left with is that players really must hold on to the Darkfall is hardcore crap. Darkfall is PVE just let this conversation die. The game is what it is an insane PVE Grind period. The game really isn't about anything except who's got more willpower as far as who can stomach the pain of PVE. You log in as a new player and it looks good and the Mob AI is good but after about 45 minutes you must make your decision about the PVE pain ahead. If you can endure that amount of pain and think it might be worth the time you proceed. This decision has nothing to do with am I hardcore enough or can I handle full loot, only can I handle this amount of PVE.
The good news is that if you love PVE this game may have more than you can handle.
We know this, and that`s why we fight against it. Darkfall is a full-loot PVE mmo at the moment, and the best pvpers are the ones that kill most NPC. That`s the flaw in Darkfall, and the reason we have low populated servers. If a player kills 50000 goblins, he is "hardcore" enough to call himself a great pvper. And yes, goblins can do the job just as good as a cairn giant. It`s all about dedication, hard work, time and not about players skill. You all say the same, kill enough NPCs and you will do great in pvp.
And the grind is awful. You can can confirme this by all the "how to maximize you char fast" and "Xiphers hardcore NPC killer guide to get a low level pvp char in two months" posts. Invested time in killing NPC and afk harvest is the core of Darkfall, and it needs to stop while we still have a game.
And all those "team up to fight goblins" og "get two dedicated healer/buffers when you train melee" posts makes me cry blood. The grind is so bad they want you to team up to kill easy, boring mobs. Macroing is by far the fastest way to skill up any skill, no matter what anyone say. AV need to make the pvp skills/stats easy to get, and they can keep the crafting part slow for the level guys.
But the NPC grinders got one point right. Darkfall is a niche game and not for anyone. Darkfall not for casual players, crafters(everyone and his mother got all crafting skills) or pvpers. It is a niche mmo for hardcore PVE players.
. PvE is and always will be a means to PvP, thats what makes the game dynamic. What you are basically complaing about are the aspects of the game that make it an RPG. You are also wrong about crafting. Most people have maybe 1 craft skill maxed, and thats usually talioring becuase its cheap. The true crafters of the game, those who actually like crafting, have multiple crafts up and are generally in a hardcore PvP clan. Why?, it makes getting things for PvP easier. I only make my own bone armor, Indica Sin makes everything else I need. Thats how the game works and will always work.
[Mod Edit]
At least you agree there is a huge grind. I think thats all anyone is trying to say here.
The only reason there is a "huge grind" is because peopel feel like they need to level everything. If people didn't try to get the best of everything for the slight almost non-existent edge it offers we wouldn't be hearing costant QQ about grind. The things that remain a grind in game are: melee mastery due it being boring to melee mobs most of the time, sc due to not having a damage spell in the lower levels and being a pure utility skill, and HP due to stats leveling a proper gradual pace but HP being calculated in a manner that gives the person with the most "timed played" too big of an advantage. All these can be changed without reducing the amount of time actually required to get to the same "level"
PS: The person above this post wants to max out insanely fast because he/she can't stand fighting mobs. If macroing were allowed this person wouldn't be bitching right now. AV should just legalize macoring. In a full loot game, macroing doesn't hurt anyone and frees up play time to do things that people actually like doing rather than what they "have" to do.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
If you must maintain your relentless redundancy, then I might as well join you. There are a slew of FPS games that are available to you at this time, choose one. Many of them even contain surprising character development. Have you not yet waved the flag of beware enough already. You add nothing to any discussion in this forum but a continuous warning of mind bleeding PVE. That is incredibly misleading for a new player. Can you contribute nothing more after playing this game for over a month?
This is a different kind of MMORPG than you're used to obviously, you don't get to dominate vets after such a short stay. I actually get reminded of that everyday, and that's exactly how it should be. Otherwise why are you here? Why not pick any one of the other hundreds of mmo/fps games that offer what you seem to be begging for?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I personally enjoy PVE. I want people to play this game.
I also experience people telling me that I hate the game when actually I enjoy it. I think people get confused when they see others revealing the truth about the game and they automatically think that he or she must hate the game. We are simply stating the facts that this is a heavy PvE game with a huge grind. I've never said I disliked the game and I've never seen you say it either but people assume we do because we don't advertise darkfall at every chance we get and we don't mindlessly support every aspect of the game.
Then again I don't think im super hardcore man like most people who play this game so they are defending that "twitch skills hardcore full loot PvP" personality that they have hardcoded into their brains.
The thing is, there's more than one path to take in DF....more than one way. Just because you choose to PVE yourselves into burnout, doesn't mean that others have to, or that your claims of it being a "PVE heavy grind fest" are true.
Alternatives have been given repeatedly, but you'd rather whine about the grind anyway, wether you claim to enjoy the game or not.
nearly every thread on this forum gets hijacked into a PVE / grind whine by the same couple of posters, and it's not necessary....it's dangerously close to trolling, in fact.
Arf, why do some of you think RPG - role playing game means you have to kill loads of NPCs. I don`t think players in Darkfall kills NPCs and role play some kind of hunter. "hey thee old troll, now I`m going to kill you and your three friends a hundred times" When your skills are done, why would you kill npcs in your RPG? I personally would kill mobs to get R50 weapons, money for regs and mats for enchanting.
I play alot, and I got 100 in jewelsmithing, tailoring, master weaponsmithing, master armorsmith and I can make q3 enchants. My harvesting skills are maxed...all of them. I haven`t bother to max the rest of the crafting skills as it doesn`t do me any good in PVP. I`m in a "hardcore pvp clan" and I will attend any large battle. My city is attacked several times EACH hour, but thats usually the boring 1-2 man fights. They try to kill the macroers or crafters, and run when some attacks back. There are absolutly no "safe" NPC spots around my city.
I beta tested this game, I`ve killed more than 17k boring npcs on this char and 7k on my alt. I have 75+ in most of the pvp spells and my health is 365. I really don`t care what some "I have played Darkfall for two weeks and it`s the best game ever" say. You however should know better. I have the right to voice my opinion when you "killing NPC is role-playing and the core of Darkfall" crowd praise every aspect of this game. I know the grind is the reason we have a low population on bouth servers.
What are your npc kill count if I may ask?
This.
I kill for gold, regs, gear and enchanting mats. I don't sit there and grind the same damn spawn all day, and then bitch about it....I simply choose not to do it.
Everyone has that choice....they have no one to blame but themselves if they decide to kill mobs all damn day.
However, it IS the nature of an RPG to feature character development. But it doesn't have to be turned into a grind. It's not a fucking race.
I would agreed with you if it was a normal PVE mmo, but this is a full-loot pvp mmo. We lose 90% of the new players the first month, and they wanted to play Darkfall. If we could make them vets faster, more of them would stay. Therefore I fight against the grind. I got a decent char, but we need more new players. I`m not the only one conserned about the future of Darkfall. This is from the EU1 forum.
forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
-at this point, the only reason each alliance holds this many holdings, is because there is not enough people to populate all holdings.
-things will change as the population goes up, if it doesnt...R.I.P. DF
-The increase of population will lead to a more balanced map full of life instead on certain places. Patience.
-Things is this game will slowly just die if they do not do anything about the population.
Thing is they actually have a good stream of new players coming in but 95% of them quit.
Why? Cuz it is to god damn hard to compete with the vets.
It takes about 5-6 months of constant macroing to even have the char as a veteran player...
Now they even bann players from macroing. l..o..l
So as it currently looks the population will only go down...
-Fuck sake where have this game came to, PR field 70 people and that is now a Zerg. 6 months ago Aesir could nearly field that number alone and then we were an ordinary group...
-Large scale is the best fun, especially the ongoing wars
-AV promising 10K players online at the same time and battle with thousands of players, uhm a Zerg these days are 30 people...
Maybe I am just living in a old dream and can't accept the new Counter-Strike that DF has become.
-Zerg=Good Zerging=Fun And Av needs to DO SOME MORE ADVERTISING CMON !
-lets hope trials pull thru and some new zerg alliance forms and stirs up the pollitics more.
So please stop pretendig we are doing fine. Those of us that really play and not just farm NPCs, knows we are in troubble. im praying for some magical patch in DF2010.
I don't quite understand why you think I am whining. I've never whined about the grind in darkfall only been blunt with the truth. I don't lie to players who are thinking about purchasing the game like most of the people on here who almost seem to be employees of aventurine they are so adamantly defending them.
I do however understand why you would call it trolling. It's hard to dispute the truth so use the default argument of "hes a troll."
I would agreed with you if it was a normal PVE mmo, but this is a full-loot pvp mmo. We lose 90% of the new players the first month, and they wanted to play Darkfall. If we could make them vets faster, more of them would stay. Therefore I fight against the grind. I got a decent char, but we need more new players. I`m not the only one conserned about the future of Darkfall. This is from the EU1 forum.
forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
-at this point, the only reason each alliance holds this many holdings, is because there is not enough people to populate all holdings.
-things will change as the population goes up, if it doesnt...R.I.P. DF
-The increase of population will lead to a more balanced map full of life instead on certain places. Patience.
-Things is this game will slowly just die if they do not do anything about the population.
Thing is they actually have a good stream of new players coming in but 95% of them quit.
Why? Cuz it is to god damn hard to compete with the vets.
It takes about 5-6 months of constant macroing to even have the char as a veteran player...
Now they even bann players from macroing. l..o..l
So as it currently looks the population will only go down...
-Fuck sake where have this game came to, PR field 70 people and that is now a Zerg. 6 months ago Aesir could nearly field that number alone and then we were an ordinary group...
-Large scale is the best fun, especially the ongoing wars
-AV promising 10K players online at the same time and battle with thousands of players, uhm a Zerg these days are 30 people...
Maybe I am just living in a old dream and can't accept the new Counter-Strike that DF has become.
-Zerg=Good Zerging=Fun And Av needs to DO SOME MORE ADVERTISING CMON !
-lets hope trials pull thru and some new zerg alliance forms and stirs up the pollitics more.
So please stop pretendig we are doing fine. Those of us that really play and not just farm NPCs, knows we are in troubble. im praying for some magical patch in DF2010.
I agree DFO needs more players but why would pulling an NGE accomplish that? Where is the evidence that making DFO easy will increase subscriptions? The evidence when looking at these decisions made in past MMORPGs points to the loyal playerbase quitting in disgust while the new potential playerbase doesn't materialize and you're left with an empty server listening to crickets!
There is no evidence to state that making a game easier increases the playerbase, in fact the evidence is all to the contrary and with PvP games it just destroys the playerbase. You want an easy MMOFPS with no grind and you're on a level footing with Vets? Play WW2Online and stop whining here. That's a really dead PvP game but according to yourself it should be thriving due to having absoloutley zero PvE grind, right? Wrong.
Thankfully Aventurine aren't going to dumb down DFO and give new players a get out of character progression free card whilst shafting the playerbase. If they do I may as well play WW2Online as it costs less, will be exactly the same and will be just as dead! If they ever pull an NGE I hope by that time Mortal Online has been sorted out because then I'd just jump straight into that. I don't pay my subscription for companies to screw up games but improve them.
DFO needs more players but there are other ways, the free trials a graphical upgrade that's coming. I'd rather be playing with a few like minded PvPers than a horde of carebears in a dumbed down version of a Darkfall. In fact if I thought like you I'd probably just quit and subscribe to WoW!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I've noticed a trend on this forum and the official forums of people defending the game by telling detractors to stop being a whiney carebear and that they just don't understand the game. Well I for one understand the game, I like the idea behind the game, I waited months for the trial so I could buy it with confidence, and then I played the shit out of it so that I could get a good idea of it. I just don't like it. It wasn't what it was advertised as, it wasn't hardcore PvP. It was more of a grind than any other game I've played with a heavy PvE focus and PvP that consisted mostly of griefing those who couldn't fight back.
I see these sentiments echoed by many others here and the same few people just keep insulting them and telling them to find another game which makes me realize that the most off putting thing about the game isn't its mechanics, but its community, half of which seem bent on purifying the ranks until there are no infidels which isn't really a great way to retain new players, even ones who actually want to play. I want to like this game and I would love to come back to it in the future to see it worked out a little better, but if the most vocal players are going to do nothing but bash anyone and everyone who dissents from their opinion I do see that being very likely.
This x100.
I'd love to add more, but that pretty much says it all. Only thing I can really say is that I'd gladly come back if some things were actually adjusted. Until then, DFO is actually still installed/updated on my PC, and hasn't been played in working on 2 months.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
The thing is, the game has been out for over a year. Let's say that tommorow AV made it so every newbie in leather gear had a shot against any vet. Do you think vets would be happy about that? What about the months and yes year some of them put in towards developing their characters? All of that would be basically rendered pointless. Do you think they would happily stay in the game if this happens?
What you guys are calling for is a different game. You want an fps-style MMOPRG where newbies have a chance against vets. This isn't the game and there's basically no way for AV to make Darkfall into that game without seriously endangering the whole enterprise.
I think what you're interpreting as people being "bent on purifying the ranks until there are no infidels" is actually people that are probably just sick of seeing thread after thread trying to change Darkfall into something it isn't and never will be.
And you really can't calculate how many people making it easy would bring in vs. how it is. I for one like the challenge and look forward to some meaningful progression in a game for once. I wouldn't be nearly as interested in the game if it was made easier. So Darkfall may gain you as a sub, but it would lose me. That's a wash, and it requires potentially driving away most of the vets of the game. Do you see why it's a pointless discussion?
Let's try it on another game that is similar: Eve. Let's say tomorrow that they made it so everyone in Eve had a shot against everyone else. Do you think people that have played that game for years would be happy? They could make a new game that's like Eve with the new rules, but changing Eve, like Darkfall, that drastically, is impossible. What you're asking for is comparable to wanting a newbie in WoW to be competative in Arena against level 80s.
And you can argue that it wasn't or isn't "what it's advertised to be", but I for one never trust advertising, and believe it or not, after reading up on Darkfall over the past year, it doesn't seem as rough as many have made it out to be. Apparently some people dissapointed at launch. Others weren't (besides the server trouble the game had). It's been a year though and people pretty much know what they're getting with Darkfall. That issue seems like it should be laid to rest by now.
When I read the following by the OP:
I really wanted to believe that Darkfall would be [a game] that relied on twitch based skills as much as player progression, one that allowed you to jump right into the action and defend yourself from or attack any interlopers who crossed you.
I have to wonder where the hell he got the idea that Darkfall was like that, besides his own imagination? I could "really want to believe" that Darkfall is any number of things, but if I wanted to have a decent idea of what the game was like, I'd read up on it.
Did you join a clan? If so which one?
Why do I criticise people such as yourself who complain about being rolled as a noob? You probably didn't join a clan or look for help but went out to farm goblins got rolled and then did it again with the same results. It's like watching a guy bang his head on a wall for hours then complain that he has a headache later, sorry but I just have no sympathy.
You need to join a decent clan and get some help, playing solo at a starter city is going to mean you'll get picked on. It's stated here time and time again and there are starter guides but people still choose to ignore it and go into theme park solo friendly mode then QQ later.
If you still have time and are on EU-1 send me a PM and you can join our clan if you use ventrilo and I'll do my best to help you out. Otherwise Darkfall will be a frustrating experience, after 4 months play nearly and 340 HP and some pretty decent skills I don't think I could manage for long solo before I hit a serious road block.
What you call purifying the ranks I call getting rid of the fools that can't handle being bullied online and then come here to cry about it, do I look like their mother? Seriously you have a problem with the game say your piece and go play a theme park MMORPG, but don't get a thistle in your arse when someone thinks you're being a cyber whimp!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Like I said before, I joined the NEW clan on the NA server. Grouped with some of them a bit, but it was hard to find a group of people that wanted to do what you wanted to and even in a group I still got ganked. Hell I got ganked in the middle of our city with 10 other clan members standing around. Your response is a great example of what I'm talking about with the community attitude, assuming since I didn't have a good time I was doing it wrong and clearly don't like sandbox games. Well I did everything i was told, joined the newbie clan, grouped with people as much as possible, leveled up only useful skills and as a matter of fact I love sandbox games, Pre-CU SWG was probably my favorite MMO. This game should be perfect for me, I love PvP, FPS, and sandbox games, but it doesn't seem to deliver on any of those things. If you feel different thats great, but don't act like anyother opinion is invalid.
Holdenhamlet: You're kidding right? Why did I think it was twitch based? Try looking up how the combat system is described pretty much anywhere. I knew player stats would come into play at some level but I never got the impression they would have such a drastic effect on combat as they do.
The thing is, the game has been out for over a year. Let's say that tommorow AV made it so every newbie in leather gear had a shot against any vet. Do you think vets would be happy about that? What about the months and yes year some of them put in towards developing their characters? All of that would be basically rendered pointless. Do you think they would happily stay in the game if this happens?
What you guys are calling for is a different game. You want an fps-style MMOPRG where newbies have a chance against vets. This isn't the game and there's basically no way for AV to make Darkfall into that game without seriously endangering the whole enterprise.
I think what you're interpreting as people being "bent on purifying the ranks until there are no infidels" is actually people that are probably just sick of seeing thread after thread trying to change Darkfall into something it isn't and never will be.
And you really can't calculate how many people making it easy would bring in vs. how it is. I for one like the challenge and look forward to some meaningful progression in a game for once. I wouldn't be nearly as interested in the game if it was made easier. So Darkfall may gain you as a sub, but it would lose me. That's a wash, and it requires potentially driving away most of the vets of the game. Do you see why it's a pointless discussion?
Let's try it on another game that is similar: Eve. Let's say tomorrow that they made it so everyone in Eve had a shot against everyone else. Do you think people that have played that game for years would be happy? They could make a new game that's like Eve with the new rules, but changing Eve, like Darkfall, that drastically, is impossible. What you're asking for is comparable to wanting a newbie in WoW to be competative in Arena against level 80s.
And you can argue that it wasn't or isn't "what it's advertised to be", but I for one never trust advertising, and believe it or not, after reading up on Darkfall over the past year, it doesn't seem as rough as many have made it out to be. Apparently some people dissapointed at launch. Others weren't (besides the server trouble the game had). It's been a year though and people pretty much know what they're getting with Darkfall. That issue seems like it should be laid to rest by now.
When I read the following by the OP:
I really wanted to believe that Darkfall would be [a game] that relied on twitch based skills as much as player progression, one that allowed you to jump right into the action and defend yourself from or attack any interlopers who crossed you.
I have to wonder where the hell he got the idea that Darkfall was like that, besides his own imagination? I could "really want to believe" that Darkfall is any number of things, but if I wanted to have a decent idea of what the game was like, I'd read up on it.
Hate to burst your bubble but MMOs don't make money by keeping vets. They make money by selling copies of the game.
That being said I don't think a newbie character should have a chance against a toon that has 6 months of play time.
The OP should look up some Video. There is a lot of good ones out there that explain exactly what you need to do to have a PvP ready character.
Well first I'd actually advise against joining NEW, atleast on EU-1 because every low life griefer and his mate have war decced NEW to get their jollies. I didn't say your opinion is invalid just that I think the problems you and many others complain about can easily be avoided by finding a decent clan. There's a whole section in these forums dedicated to clans advertising for members, all you have to do is find one with a city and apply until you get accepted. It really is that simple.
I played SWG pre-cu and was an MBH/MC on Bria for alot of it and you know I heard the same whines from many Jedi that I PWNED. Recived alot of hate mail from them and saw them QQ in the forums on a regular basis until Jedi was nerfed to the point everyone can get it and it wasn't worth shit then they all quit and now the game is dead!
As for stats and skills making an impact on PvP, well of course they do who ever said they don't? The fact is though that some are better at PvP full stop and I get owned by guys with weaker chars but better skills often. You've only been playing a week and can only make a judgement based on that time playing. You got owned alot, were you suprised? If so why? If not what is the problem? You've played no more than a month probably a week and you think you should be able to fight off an '08er? Why?
What you're saying makes no sense to me, no one likes getting owned but you probably got told to bank often as you'll be ganked often right? So why the complaining? Did you think you'd enjoy getting ganked but found out to the contrary? Did you believe you'd win some fights against chars that have better stats controlled by players with better experience?
You seem shocked that an older player is so much better than your sub 1 week old char, can you state what you expected the difference to be exactly? Please point out an MMORPG you've played where you you feel the balance was right between a week old char and 1 year old char in PvP so we can all get an idea of what you expected.
Agricola.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Everyone in EVE does have a shot against everyone else. A 3 month and a 3 year player aren't on a level footing when it comes to versatility, but it's very far from unkown for 3 year old players to lose ships to 3 monthers. If a player in a T1 cruiser like an T1 Autocannon-fitted Rupture catches a guy in a sniper-fitted battleship, the battleship is going to die in a fire even if it's fully Tech2/Faction fit, and piloted by an all level 5 skills 7 year veteran.
I dont know if that scenario could translate to Darkfall. I guess the equivalent would be something like a knife fighter catching a pikeman in a dark alleyway and getting inside his swing. But swapping a ship in EVE essentially means leaving the fight and getting home. Swapping a weapon in Darkfall is likely going to be much quicker.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Everyone in EVE does have a shot against everyone else. A 3 month and a 3 year player aren't on a level footing when it comes to versatility, but it's very far from unkown for 3 year old players to lose ships to 3 monthers. If a player in a T1 cruiser like an T1 Autocannon-fitted Rupture catches a guy in a sniper-fitted battleship, the battleship is going to die in a fire even if it's fully Tech2/Faction fit, and piloted by an all level 5 skills 7 year veteran.
I dont know if that scenario could translate to Darkfall. I guess the equivalent would be something like a knife fighter catching a pikeman in a dark alleyway and getting inside his swing. But swapping a ship in EVE essentially means leaving the fight and getting home. Swapping a weapon in Darkfall is likely going to be much quicker.
3 monthers in Darkfall do have a shot against vets. What the OP is talking about is 3 dayers, not 3 monthers.
I agree DFO needs more players but why would pulling an NGE accomplish that? Where is the evidence that making DFO easy will increase subscriptions? The evidence when looking at these decisions made in past MMORPGs points to the loyal playerbase quitting in disgust while the new potential playerbase doesn't materialize and you're left with an empty server listening to crickets!
There is no evidence to state that making a game easier increases the playerbase, in fact the evidence is all to the contrary and with PvP games it just destroys the playerbase. You want an easy MMOFPS with no grind and you're on a level footing with Vets? Play WW2Online and stop whining here. That's a really dead PvP game but according to yourself it should be thriving due to having absoloutley zero PvE grind, right? Wrong.
Thankfully Aventurine aren't going to dumb down DFO and give new players a get out of character progression free card whilst shafting the playerbase. If they do I may as well play WW2Online as it costs less, will be exactly the same and will be just as dead! If they ever pull an NGE I hope by that time Mortal Online has been sorted out because then I'd just jump straight into that. I don't pay my subscription for companies to screw up games but improve them.
DFO needs more players but there are other ways, the free trials a graphical upgrade that's coming. I'd rather be playing with a few like minded PvPers than a horde of carebears in a dumbed down version of a Darkfall. In fact if I thought like you I'd probably just quit and subscribe to WoW!
Hah, we don`t have a playersbase. We have a few thousand players killing NPCs in a vain hope to someday have a competative pvp experience. I haven`t seen you in the last large pvp battles, do you still play?
I got the evidence I need from RL. I got friends who are former DF players, and the reason they quit was the grind. Let the crafting skill be the grind, let the quest for mats be the grind or let the quest for high end ships and siege eqipment be the grind.
Why does the grind have to be the pvp skills in a full-loot pvp mmo?
Ohh, and I`m looking at MO too, but not for the same reason you do. MO are suppose to have faster skillgain, and I would leave in an instant if they got that game fixed.
I agree DFO needs more players but why would pulling an NGE accomplish that? Where is the evidence that making DFO easy will increase subscriptions? The evidence when looking at these decisions made in past MMORPGs points to the loyal playerbase quitting in disgust while the new potential playerbase doesn't materialize and you're left with an empty server listening to crickets!
There is no evidence to state that making a game easier increases the playerbase, in fact the evidence is all to the contrary and with PvP games it just destroys the playerbase. You want an easy MMOFPS with no grind and you're on a level footing with Vets? Play WW2Online and stop whining here. That's a really dead PvP game but according to yourself it should be thriving due to having absoloutley zero PvE grind, right? Wrong.
Thankfully Aventurine aren't going to dumb down DFO and give new players a get out of character progression free card whilst shafting the playerbase. If they do I may as well play WW2Online as it costs less, will be exactly the same and will be just as dead! If they ever pull an NGE I hope by that time Mortal Online has been sorted out because then I'd just jump straight into that. I don't pay my subscription for companies to screw up games but improve them.
DFO needs more players but there are other ways, the free trials a graphical upgrade that's coming. I'd rather be playing with a few like minded PvPers than a horde of carebears in a dumbed down version of a Darkfall. In fact if I thought like you I'd probably just quit and subscribe to WoW!
Hah, we don`t have a playersbase. We have a few thousand players killing NPCs in a vain hope to someday have a competative pvp experience. I haven`t seen you in the last large pvp battles, do you still play?
I got the evidence I need from RL. I got friends who are former DF players, and the reason they quit was the grind. Let the crafting skill be the grind, let the quest for mats be the grind or let the quest for high end ships and siege eqipment be the grind.
Why does the grind have to be the pvp skills in a full-loot pvp mmo?
Ohh, and I`m looking at MO too, but not for the same reason you do. MO are suppose to have faster skillgain, and I would leave in an instant if they got that game fixed.
For me there can be much extracted from how you worded these phrase about your position.
The things you mention, required mats, mats for ships, mats for siege equipements, mats for crafting are the not grind but the usual economical preparation that gives combat an additional economic dimension.
These SITUATIONAL dimension of combat warfare is been then added to the longterm preparations and STRENGTH of the army (represented by the individuals and members of the force). Strength of the army shows after training and PRACTICE, the "humancapital" in the equation so to speak.
A long and difficult process in regards to that gives clans who are more organized / have better dedicated clanmembers or are otherwise better situated for training the army better to excell in that. That dimension would be taken away if all become faster and easier litle rambos..
Beside of clanwarfare, the world is big and there has to be incentives to go out, not only for preparations and incase there is a siege at weekend. We all know that PvP's tend to keep themself in one hotspot and duell all day and refuse to explore and go out in the wild. But if the gamemechanics would tolerate these behaviour we would soon have the "bloodwall situation" again, for that the gamemechnics give you the incentive of higher PvE gains to go out and visit the big world. You STILL can ignore that and just stick to the consequence of lower gains only through PvP. Its an option, if you don't want to kill mobs just don't do it and live with the fact that you skillgains will be smaller from PvP.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Everyone in EVE does have a shot against everyone else. A 3 month and a 3 year player aren't on a level footing when it comes to versatility, but it's very far from unkown for 3 year old players to lose ships to 3 monthers. If a player in a T1 cruiser like an T1 Autocannon-fitted Rupture catches a guy in a sniper-fitted battleship, the battleship is going to die in a fire even if it's fully Tech2/Faction fit, and piloted by an all level 5 skills 7 year veteran.
I dont know if that scenario could translate to Darkfall. I guess the equivalent would be something like a knife fighter catching a pikeman in a dark alleyway and getting inside his swing. But swapping a ship in EVE essentially means leaving the fight and getting home. Swapping a weapon in Darkfall is likely going to be much quicker.
3 monthers in Darkfall do have a shot against vets. What the OP is talking about is 3 dayers, not 3 monthers.
The same argument applies, except that the 3-dayers in EVE would have a more limited range of possible targets. There's a fairly famous vid on youtube of 2 guys making 1-day alts, putting them into Rifters (T1 frigates) and going on a killing spree. Player skill and a wllingness to accept trivial losses allow very low skill characters to be used with considerable success.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
what MMO has better PvP in your view?
Just as an FYI. I usually dont read long posts on why the game is bad UNLESS I see the name of a game that is currently out that the author thinks is better. Its a personal standing rule I have. So I scanned and I might have missed it, if so sorry about that.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I would agreed with you if it was a normal PVE mmo, but this is a full-loot pvp mmo. We lose 90% of the new players the first month, and they wanted to play Darkfall. If we could make them vets faster, more of them would stay. Therefore I fight against the grind. I got a decent char, but we need more new players. I`m not the only one conserned about the future of Darkfall. This is from the EU1 forum.
forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
-at this point, the only reason each alliance holds this many holdings, is because there is not enough people to populate all holdings.
-things will change as the population goes up, if it doesnt...R.I.P. DF
-The increase of population will lead to a more balanced map full of life instead on certain places. Patience.
-Things is this game will slowly just die if they do not do anything about the population.
Thing is they actually have a good stream of new players coming in but 95% of them quit.
Why? Cuz it is to god damn hard to compete with the vets.
It takes about 5-6 months of constant macroing to even have the char as a veteran player...
Now they even bann players from macroing. l..o..l
So as it currently looks the population will only go down...
-Fuck sake where have this game came to, PR field 70 people and that is now a Zerg. 6 months ago Aesir could nearly field that number alone and then we were an ordinary group...
-Large scale is the best fun, especially the ongoing wars
-AV promising 10K players online at the same time and battle with thousands of players, uhm a Zerg these days are 30 people...
Maybe I am just living in a old dream and can't accept the new Counter-Strike that DF has become.
-Zerg=Good Zerging=Fun And Av needs to DO SOME MORE ADVERTISING CMON !
-lets hope trials pull thru and some new zerg alliance forms and stirs up the pollitics more.
So please stop pretendig we are doing fine. Those of us that really play and not just farm NPCs, knows we are in troubble. im praying for some magical patch in DF2010.
If new players can't handle the need to advance their character, then they should go back to FPS games. I can't think of a single MMORPG that gives you an uber character from day 1.....or day 7 for that matter.
And yes....DOOOOOOM posts. People have been predicting the doom of Darkfall for over a year now. But, as recently demonstrated in another thread detailing the number of active players in the game, the population has been steadily increasing.
What makes the servers seem less populated than they were a year ago is the fact that the player base was split in two with the advent of NA1.
Yes, some new players will quit. They will get looted and quit, they will realise that it takes a bit of effort to advance and quit, they won't like the fact that there aren't quests and quit.....simply put, they won't like the game. This is the same as it is in any other game....not every MMORPG appeals to every type of player.
I tried WoW once. I quit within the first 3 days. I didn't like it....but I didn't rage in their forums forever about how the game needed to be a sandbox, and needed to have full loot.
It is what it is, and you either like it, or don't. But if you don't, there no sense crying for the game to be changed, let it be and let those who DO enjoy it have their game the way it is.
It is beyond absurd to insist that everyone shares your tastes, and will all quit the game if it's not changed.