I thought i had posted it in the my response to Buniont's assertion that Darkfall's launch was smooth "outiside of ~2 days of de-sync issues which were quickly resolved". It was fairly long and ranty, so I suspect it was moderator deleted, even though I made an effort to not attack him, just the assertion.
Hanover confirmed: post deleted. Let's just say, if you go back to March and April in the MMORPG Darkfall forum, it does not fit with that description.
This means what exactly? I have no idea where these numbers come from but there have been no precise sub numbers released in DFO ever. Pulling numbers out of someones ass is pretty meaningless.
I was there at launch and the de-sync lasted about 2 days. The server crashed about 1-2 times per day for a couple weeks after that (outside mega sieges). The launch may have been rough for a number of reasons but stability was not it. AO, AoC, AC, Even WoW had server stability issue as launch. I wont even go into the queue times for WoW at launch (then the dead server months later).
there were issues at launch:
+ Mobs were tough and people worked more to exploit the mobs than learn strategies to deal with them
+ AV took a lax attiitude toward macroing outside starter cities and a few people leveled very quickly in the first month or so (you could shoot into the air and get skill gain).
+ Cities did not have gates making cities like sunthrone un-defendable
+ Hacking as in all new games was an issue
gradually the issues were fixed. The macro issue was largely rendered moot by adding 3x and 6x skill gains for PvE. This stopped peopl from camping in their cities and never leaving.
At this time we saw seiges of 1000+ people (LoD allied the majority of the server. The server blew up a few times when these sieges occured but htis is far more than any other games have handled. Eve has blown up with similiar numbers, WaR couldn' come close, WoW....lol.
I have no idea what you are trying to say but posting shit someone pulled out of thier ass is pretty meaningless. Even if the numbers you posted were accurate you would need to compare them to other games. I know most of my guild never made it past month 2 in WoW so the numebrs would pretty similiar for that "successfull" game as well.
This means what exactly? I have no idea where these numbers come from but there have been no precise sub numbers released in DFO ever. Pulling numbers out of someones ass is pretty meaningless.
Not sure how to respond in a way that won't get deleted for highjacking the thread (again) so I'll stay ultra-short. Keen and Graev's darkfall news http://www.keenandgraev.com/?cat=169
To try and keep this on-topic, Darkfall did have a rocky launch (unless you are talking about the North American launch), but has managed to survive for at least a year. If Darkfall can do that, there is still hope for Mortal Online, so long as they can make substantial and timely progress in beta. Whether they can or not is another matter. I know many people have strong opinions on that, but simply put : He who predicts the future lies, even if he tells the truth.~ Arabian Proverb
@Neoptolemus: I meant scope in the contect of the available resources (including time) Sorry if I was unclear. Hopefully they have more resources than some people think. We'll find out if some people are wrong about the time resource soon enough (slapshot). We won't find out about the skills and organization (Hercules) until they release the game or fold up shop. Even then, it may be a matter for some argument Clearly, they pushed beta and preorders too early and that is taking a toll on the most important resource (the goodwill of your potential customers) Whether that will be fatal or not also remains to be seen. @Hanover: Never mind what?
True, we won't know the full extent of the damage until the game is released. However, I'd argue the state of the open beta and the way they're dealing with the current issues, plus the fact that the game has been delayed several times now, suggests that SV really don't have control over what's going on.
That said, if they have the resources to keep delaying this game indefinitely without running out of funds until the game is finally at or near retail standard then this might well be a moot point. The one inescapable issue here however is that they are damaging their credibility every time they release a buggy patch or delay release another 3 months having guaranteed earlier that it wouldn't be delayed.
Had they kept things under wraps for longer and had a better grasp of their development cycle, they could have waited until the game was close to completion before opening the doors to the masses and setting a release date. As it is, they thought it was close to release, set the wheels in motion, and are now paying the price for misjudging it.
I hope other budding indie teams take this example on board.
@Neoptolemus: Clearly, they pushed beta and preorders too early and that is taking a toll on the most important resource (the goodwill of your potential customers) Whether that will be fatal or not also remains to be seen.
True, we won't know the full extent of the damage until the game is released. However, I'd argue the state of the open beta and the way they're dealing with the current issues, plus the fact that the game has been delayed several times now, suggests that SV really don't have control over what's going on.
That said, if they have the resources to keep delaying this game indefinitely without running out of funds until the game is finally at or near retail standard then this might well be a moot point. The one inescapable issue here however is that they are damaging their credibility every time they release a buggy patch or delay release another 3 months having guaranteed earlier that it wouldn't be delayed.
Had they kept things under wraps for longer and had a better grasp of their development cycle, they could have waited until the game was close to completion before opening the doors to the masses and setting a release date. As it is, they thought it was close to release, set the wheels in motion, and are now paying the price for misjudging it.
I hope other budding indie teams take this example on board.
While I am more hopeful about their chances than you, there is no arguing this point. I think we are essentially saying the same thing. My one quibble would be "indefinitely". I would point out other development teams that damaged their credibility with developments delays and bugs, but since I got warned for hi-jacking the thread, I'd best not open that can of worms.
I have spend about 3 hours yesterday trying the game. Now, my question as the thread title would be "does MO deserve any hope?"
I've run from Miduli to Fabernum, spent some time taming animals, then moved across the plateau to the east, northeast, I guess, since there is no map ingame, not even a compass. When you go up on top of the mountain ranges, it is all rectangular and triangular in shape. Some mountain peaks have improper huge grass texture stretched over.
Except some small number of animals by the starter towns the world is empty and devoid of any life. Invisible pigs sneak attack from the distance. Some pigs which I have tamed followed me at least 50m up in the air. Further east some water lizards slowly moved in the air as well.
Woodcutting animation made me want to puke. When you sit down to rest you are subjected to the sheer ugliness of your char's legs model.
When I saw other players chars drawing a weapon on me I wanted to cry - they look so cardboard stiff its unbelievable.
The impression from the whole MO project is of sloppiness - it feels like everything was thrown in together in the hope it will work. One of the devs answered a question at the forums as to why the starter ax is bound but at the same time can be stolen - "oh, well, its a temporary solution, you don't know how it looks form the inside".
Well, from the customer ''outside'' it looks like amature mess. So that why I would say that nether SV nor MO deserve any hope.
The project should and will fail. Maybe more professional people will develop similar concept.
I think MO has hope, but more importantly I hope the diehard fans have deep enough pockets to keep MO alive long enough to make it into a suitable game in say 2 years? Thats when ill be jumping in
I think MO has hope, but more importantly I hope the diehard fans have deep enough pockets to keep MO alive long enough to make it into a suitable game in say 2 years? Thats when ill be jumping in
We will see...
Their release process started 2 months ago when the open beta started... longest release phase ever?
@ slapshot: "In it's current state" makes an assumption about a different resource ..... TIME. We've already had this discussion, and we will find out which of us is correct within 3 weeks, so I don't see the need to discuss it further yet. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3435899#3435899
My statements were based on the supposition that if the developers felt the game needed more work they would postpone the release. Apparently the devs feel that they can iron out the important issues over the next 2 1/2 weeks (or don't have the resources to stay in development any longer) We'll see how well or badly they misjudged that in a few weeks.
Fair enough. My statements were based on the supposition that if the developers felt the game needed more work they would postpone the release. Apparently the devs feel that they can iron out the important issues over the next 2 1/2 weeks (or don't have the resources to stay in development any longer) We'll see how well or badly they misjudged that in a few weeks.
99% chance they will not be able to fix hardly anything before release. There have been bugs in the beta that have been there for months, 2 weeks to fix all the problems? Won't happen...
My statements were based on the supposition that if the developers felt the game needed more work they would postpone the release. Apparently the devs feel that they can iron out the important issues over the next 2 1/2 weeks (or don't have the resources to stay in development any longer) We'll see how well or badly they misjudged that in a few weeks.
I appreciate your acknowledgement. I truely didn't expect to see one from you or Gobwar, but you have earned some E-Respect from me.
Good luck with your two-weeks my friend.. but I think deep down we both know how this ends up. Either way i have enjoyed our banter.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I appreciate your acknowledgement. I truely didn't expect to see one from you or Gobwar, but you have earned some E-Respect from me. Good luck with your two-weeks my friend.. but I think deep down we both know how this ends up. Either way i have enjoyed our banter.
I appreciate your acknowledgement. I truely didn't expect to see one from you or Gobwar, but you have earned some E-Respect from me. Good luck with your two-weeks my friend.. but I think deep down we both know how this ends up. Either way i have enjoyed our banter.
This means what exactly? I have no idea where these numbers come from but there have been no precise sub numbers released in DFO ever. Pulling numbers out of someones ass is pretty meaningless.
The point is that thee are no reliable sources. I know of this website and not only the methodology is wrong the data is incorrect within that methodology.
I will state again that NO ONE has an number on darkfall subs outside of AV. They have never released those numbers. Finally, even if they had released numbers there isn't much conclusion that you can draw wihtout comparing it to other games and evaluating a number of factors such as other games which are released (tourists will always try new games even if they do not stay).
"Just to be clear... these numbers are coming from within DarkFall itself. The inaccuracy of the numbers is caused by the need for clans to manually remove clan members once they leave or are otherwise inactive.
Again, I am not trying to maintain these numbers are absolutes. I am also not trying to hide the weaknesses of these numbers or try to represent them for anything other than what they are.
For some of us, we find it interesting to track these kind of things. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the worth of such an endeavor. It would appear there are some who find it completely worthless. So noted."
"The numbers listed at these sites Are the same numbers that a subscriber would see if they open up their clan journal. "
There may be errors in the methodology, but the raw numbers are from within Darkfall. The numbers may be off, but they are the best ones available, they give us a ballpark figure, and certainly are at least as valid as the polls about Mortal that keep getting cited here.
Comments
21,622 to be precise. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/259666/DarkFall-Character-Counts-for-both-Servers.html
I thought i had posted it in the my response to Buniont's assertion that Darkfall's launch was smooth "outiside of ~2 days of de-sync issues which were quickly resolved". It was fairly long and ranty, so I suspect it was moderator deleted, even though I made an effort to not attack him, just the assertion.
Hanover confirmed: post deleted. Let's just say, if you go back to March and April in the MMORPG Darkfall forum, it does not fit with that description.
This means what exactly? I have no idea where these numbers come from but there have been no precise sub numbers released in DFO ever. Pulling numbers out of someones ass is pretty meaningless.
I was there at launch and the de-sync lasted about 2 days. The server crashed about 1-2 times per day for a couple weeks after that (outside mega sieges). The launch may have been rough for a number of reasons but stability was not it. AO, AoC, AC, Even WoW had server stability issue as launch. I wont even go into the queue times for WoW at launch (then the dead server months later).
there were issues at launch:
+ Mobs were tough and people worked more to exploit the mobs than learn strategies to deal with them
+ AV took a lax attiitude toward macroing outside starter cities and a few people leveled very quickly in the first month or so (you could shoot into the air and get skill gain).
+ Cities did not have gates making cities like sunthrone un-defendable
+ Hacking as in all new games was an issue
gradually the issues were fixed. The macro issue was largely rendered moot by adding 3x and 6x skill gains for PvE. This stopped peopl from camping in their cities and never leaving.
At this time we saw seiges of 1000+ people (LoD allied the majority of the server. The server blew up a few times when these sieges occured but htis is far more than any other games have handled. Eve has blown up with similiar numbers, WaR couldn' come close, WoW....lol.
I have no idea what you are trying to say but posting shit someone pulled out of thier ass is pretty meaningless. Even if the numbers you posted were accurate you would need to compare them to other games. I know most of my guild never made it past month 2 in WoW so the numebrs would pretty similiar for that "successfull" game as well.
This means what exactly? I have no idea where these numbers come from but there have been no precise sub numbers released in DFO ever. Pulling numbers out of someones ass is pretty meaningless.
Umm, I provided a link to the thread. If you have no idea where these numbers come from. feel free to click the link and read where the numbers come from and the methodology. The raw numbers come from here... http://df.urme.com/index.php?page=guilds and here ... http://darkfallinfo.com/pmap/index.php?page=clans&sort=members&order=ASC If you have more reliable sources, feel free to cite them
lol the game is good already, its getting better and better
When? How did that happen?
When? How did that happen?
i dont know i came before day and night patch but im having fun when its not lagging at mornings! the character matters a lot you should try.
@BuniontToes:
Not sure how to respond in a way that won't get deleted for highjacking the thread (again) so I'll stay ultra-short. Keen and Graev's darkfall news http://www.keenandgraev.com/?cat=169
The forum around the time of launch http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/454/page/151
My apology to the trolls, from an ex-fanboy: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/225459
To try and keep this on-topic, Darkfall did have a rocky launch (unless you are talking about the North American launch), but has managed to survive for at least a year. If Darkfall can do that, there is still hope for Mortal Online, so long as they can make substantial and timely progress in beta. Whether they can or not is another matter. I know many people have strong opinions on that, but simply put : He who predicts the future lies, even if he tells the truth.~ Arabian Proverb
True, we won't know the full extent of the damage until the game is released. However, I'd argue the state of the open beta and the way they're dealing with the current issues, plus the fact that the game has been delayed several times now, suggests that SV really don't have control over what's going on.
That said, if they have the resources to keep delaying this game indefinitely without running out of funds until the game is finally at or near retail standard then this might well be a moot point. The one inescapable issue here however is that they are damaging their credibility every time they release a buggy patch or delay release another 3 months having guaranteed earlier that it wouldn't be delayed.
Had they kept things under wraps for longer and had a better grasp of their development cycle, they could have waited until the game was close to completion before opening the doors to the masses and setting a release date. As it is, they thought it was close to release, set the wheels in motion, and are now paying the price for misjudging it.
I hope other budding indie teams take this example on board.
True, we won't know the full extent of the damage until the game is released. However, I'd argue the state of the open beta and the way they're dealing with the current issues, plus the fact that the game has been delayed several times now, suggests that SV really don't have control over what's going on.
That said, if they have the resources to keep delaying this game indefinitely without running out of funds until the game is finally at or near retail standard then this might well be a moot point. The one inescapable issue here however is that they are damaging their credibility every time they release a buggy patch or delay release another 3 months having guaranteed earlier that it wouldn't be delayed.
Had they kept things under wraps for longer and had a better grasp of their development cycle, they could have waited until the game was close to completion before opening the doors to the masses and setting a release date. As it is, they thought it was close to release, set the wheels in motion, and are now paying the price for misjudging it.
I hope other budding indie teams take this example on board.
While I am more hopeful about their chances than you, there is no arguing this point. I think we are essentially saying the same thing. My one quibble would be "indefinitely". I would point out other development teams that damaged their credibility with developments delays and bugs, but since I got warned for hi-jacking the thread, I'd best not open that can of worms.
I have spend about 3 hours yesterday trying the game. Now, my question as the thread title would be "does MO deserve any hope?"
I've run from Miduli to Fabernum, spent some time taming animals, then moved across the plateau to the east, northeast, I guess, since there is no map ingame, not even a compass. When you go up on top of the mountain ranges, it is all rectangular and triangular in shape. Some mountain peaks have improper huge grass texture stretched over.
Except some small number of animals by the starter towns the world is empty and devoid of any life. Invisible pigs sneak attack from the distance. Some pigs which I have tamed followed me at least 50m up in the air. Further east some water lizards slowly moved in the air as well.
Woodcutting animation made me want to puke. When you sit down to rest you are subjected to the sheer ugliness of your char's legs model.
When I saw other players chars drawing a weapon on me I wanted to cry - they look so cardboard stiff its unbelievable.
The impression from the whole MO project is of sloppiness - it feels like everything was thrown in together in the hope it will work. One of the devs answered a question at the forums as to why the starter ax is bound but at the same time can be stolen - "oh, well, its a temporary solution, you don't know how it looks form the inside".
Well, from the customer ''outside'' it looks like amature mess. So that why I would say that nether SV nor MO deserve any hope.
The project should and will fail. Maybe more professional people will develop similar concept.
I think MO has hope, but more importantly I hope the diehard fans have deep enough pockets to keep MO alive long enough to make it into a suitable game in say 2 years? Thats when ill be jumping in
We will see...
Their release process started 2 months ago when the open beta started... longest release phase ever?
Guess we now know which of us was correct...
http://www.mortalonline.com/news/march-13-03-10
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
releasing an incomplete product and there is still hope?
Fair enough.
My statements were based on the supposition that if the developers felt the game needed more work they would postpone the release. Apparently the devs feel that they can iron out the important issues over the next 2 1/2 weeks (or don't have the resources to stay in development any longer) We'll see how well or badly they misjudged that in a few weeks.
99% chance they will not be able to fix hardly anything before release. There have been bugs in the beta that have been there for months, 2 weeks to fix all the problems? Won't happen...
Fair enough.
My statements were based on the supposition that if the developers felt the game needed more work they would postpone the release. Apparently the devs feel that they can iron out the important issues over the next 2 1/2 weeks (or don't have the resources to stay in development any longer) We'll see how well or badly they misjudged that in a few weeks.
I appreciate your acknowledgement. I truely didn't expect to see one from you or Gobwar, but you have earned some E-Respect from me.
Good luck with your two-weeks my friend.. but I think deep down we both know how this ends up. Either way i have enjoyed our banter.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Thats Gobwar? Why is he using multiple accounts?
And yes, everyone that is realistic knows how this game is going to end up
Thats Gobwar? Why is he using multiple accounts?
No. I am not Gobwar.
Thats Gobwar? Why is he using multiple accounts?
No. I am not Gobwar.
Ok good
This means what exactly? I have no idea where these numbers come from but there have been no precise sub numbers released in DFO ever. Pulling numbers out of someones ass is pretty meaningless.
Umm, I provided a link to the thread. If you have no idea where these numbers come from. feel free to click the link and read where the numbers come from and the methodology. The raw numbers come from here... http://df.urme.com/index.php?page=guilds and here ... http://darkfallinfo.com/pmap/index.php?page=clans&sort=members&order=ASC If you have more reliable sources, feel free to cite them
The point is that thee are no reliable sources. I know of this website and not only the methodology is wrong the data is incorrect within that methodology.
I will state again that NO ONE has an number on darkfall subs outside of AV. They have never released those numbers. Finally, even if they had released numbers there isn't much conclusion that you can draw wihtout comparing it to other games and evaluating a number of factors such as other games which are released (tourists will always try new games even if they do not stay).
XZYAX:
"Just to be clear... these numbers are coming from within DarkFall itself. The inaccuracy of the numbers is caused by the need for clans to manually remove clan members once they leave or are otherwise inactive.
Again, I am not trying to maintain these numbers are absolutes. I am also not trying to hide the weaknesses of these numbers or try to represent them for anything other than what they are.
For some of us, we find it interesting to track these kind of things. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the worth of such an endeavor. It would appear there are some who find it completely worthless. So noted."
"The numbers listed at these sites Are the same numbers that a subscriber would see if they open up their clan journal. "
There may be errors in the methodology, but the raw numbers are from within Darkfall. The numbers may be off, but they are the best ones available, they give us a ballpark figure, and certainly are at least as valid as the polls about Mortal that keep getting cited here.