Originally posted by DrowNoble Can't do basic math eh? Plus, it can't be a "complete" lie as I posted some links for your reading. It's not my fault if you were either too lazy or too much in a hurry to read some, admittedly boring, financial reports. A "complete lie" would be 100% fabricated, which according to the links cannot be true. Sales totals for the year were roughly 35% contributed by Aion and 41% for both Lineage games. Now, the US Aion share is only 12% with 55% coming from Korea. So that means that in Korea there is almost 5 times the subs as there are in the US, roughly speaking since box sales are included in that figure. Aion contributed to 43% of their total sales, but if you just straight divided the sales value by that percentage you wouldn't take into account the number of boxes sold vs subscriptions. The number comes to 18.2 million subs *IF* the game had been given away free, which is not correct. If you took off the 700k boxes sold at/near launch that would drop the total subscription value to 15.8 million, which still seems to be a bit high but not impossible as this game is very big in Asia and less so in the US. Ok enough numbers it's there if you don't want to believe my "complete lies" after all.
Holy crap! That has got to be some of the worst third grade level sales logic I have ever seen.
I mean, are you actually serious with this or is it some kind of sarcastic joke?
Can't do basic math eh? Plus, it can't be a "complete" lie as I posted some links for your reading. It's not my fault if you were either too lazy or too much in a hurry to read some, admittedly boring, financial reports. A "complete lie" would be 100% fabricated, which according to the links cannot be true. Sales totals for the year were roughly 35% contributed by Aion and 41% for both Lineage games. Now, the US Aion share is only 12% with 55% coming from Korea. So that means that in Korea there is almost 5 times the subs as there are in the US, roughly speaking since box sales are included in that figure. Aion contributed to 43% of their total sales, but if you just straight divided the sales value by that percentage you wouldn't take into account the number of boxes sold vs subscriptions. The number comes to 18.2 million subs *IF* the game had been given away free, which is not correct. If you took off the 700k boxes sold at/near launch that would drop the total subscription value to 15.8 million, which still seems to be a bit high but not impossible as this game is very big in Asia and less so in the US. Ok enough numbers it's there if you don't want to believe my "complete lies" after all.
let us get one thing straight:
WOW has a Yearly revenu of 1.23 billion dollars in 2009.
Aion has 43% of ... 160 million dollars (NCSoft reveny). 49% of that revenu came from L1 and L2 and the rest came from Guild Wars etc.
So WOW has a confirmed subsription of 11.5 million with a yearly revenu of 1.2 billion dollars (give or take a few cents).
While Aion has around 70 million dollars on a yearly basis.
And now the Aion fans come in here telling everyone with a straight face Aion has 3 million subscriptions ?
Always look at the finances and you'll see if there is a sound basis. BTW NCsoft NEVER confirmed ANY subs for Aion.
As a side note: BTW the first quarter figures of 2009 for WOW were slightly lower than the last quarter of 2009 of WOW, so it proved the game was indeed hovering around the same number of subs.
You may annouce your game has a zillion subs for my part, but if the numbers aren't supported by the money bag, they are nothing but hot air. Farmville has a fraction of WOW income and they say they have 70.000.000 players. yeah ... meaningless indeed.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I don't know where you got those Aion figures. I am sure you invented them on the fly !
How come I am not surprised seeing this kind of non link confirmed posts from ... the Korean Aion game.
So unless you can post official report hardcore links, it just showed in the above link that NCsoft made:
(From Page 18)
Net income Consolidated for 2009 was 185,389 million KRW ($160,251,011.133 USD)
Net income parent for 2009 was 182,506 million KRW ($157,605,409.518 USD)
43% of that 160 millon US dollars is Aion and that's just .... 5.8% of what WOW makes in one year.
And NEXT time: publish the links (like I do).
Get over it: those supposed pre launch 3.5 M never happened. Everyone knows it. Everyone can see the financials too. It was a launching gimmick and a bad one too for all the western players that fell into the trap.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
WoW lost a handful more subs this month.. Our lil guild went back to playing EQ after a 5 year vacation.. WoW became all about the raid, and nothing else mattered, and because of that design and thinking, we closed up shop and moved.. Sorry, Bliz as I doubt we'll be back even with Cat expansion coming out this year.. Our lil huddle of friends and family are about anything "other" then raiding.. IMO, it's only a matter of time before the 11.5 sub number start dropping.. probably after Cat when people realize there is nothing new or more for them.. Good Luck
You think WoW is all about raiding so you went to Everquest? Good luck with that!
Blizzard will have two triple A games on the shelf along with Cataclysm while WoW cools down. Then they'll drop their next MMO...boom.
Cataclysm will now launch on a 11.5 (active) million player basis with all leveling lands 1-60 being redone as "state of the Blizzard art" 2010. Active players counting, not counting double that figure who will have a look.
With the complete dreath in MMO land these days, I am afraid for my server access times. I'll repost this thread at the end of the yearly subscription announcement. in 2010/2011:)
If Blizzard can bring back the PvP rated BG competition with their titles (as promised) and this time with PvP guild leveling and play (as promised), tell me what's going to stop them?
A solo on line space adventure game with NPC henchmen ? or an Asian Fantasy pure PVE game?
You don't have to be a genious to see the immediate future concerning mmo's...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I am fed up with these kinds of posts which are based on ZERO facts The thread was made by the most reknown WOW hater figure on these pages at the momet Blizzard released its financial reports of the last Q of 2009 and the 11.5 million active subscribers. The game made 329 million dollars in just the last 3 months of 2009 , that was on par with the last time Blizzard communicated on the first quarter of 2009. It is all there on the web, just search. Money income proves the game has these kind of subscriptions. Period. http://seekingalpha.com/article/187939-activision-blizzard-inc-q4-2009-earnings-call-transcript?source=feed&page=6 And the following pages of the reference gives a clear picture of how and why and when. WOW obtained these subs on Dec 2008 (6 weeks into the launch of Wotlk) and retained them throughout the 2009 year. The financial facts simply prove it. As to its future, I will predict one thing: it will grow even before CATA will hit at the end of 2010. Simply by the fact worldwide growth was due to the economic recession and the hic-up in China (which seems to be settled now). Where are those "WOW killers of 2008 and 2009"? Nowhere: they are standing at a fraction of WOW's revenus. Why I am so sure? Simple: look at the recent changes Blizzard is making to their show horse. The new LFG tool is nothing short of revolutionary, the new LFG tool will be used in about 4 weeks time on their new PvP system too. They will introduce guild PvE and Guild PvP leveling (and PvP competition with the return of the titles) and the mechanics of the game never have been better before. So I think the thread created and constant feeding of it by some is clear proof some feel the "danger" of an even bigger WOW gorilla that spoils their fun. And if the latest adjustments to the game are showing anything: the chances it will grow completely out of the competition is very much bigger than ever before. The gap was just widened as of Dec 2009. The players know it.
If I was as happily hopeful as you, man life would be a hell of a lot less stressful
This is a near 6 year old game that has not grown in subscribers (as per Blizzard) since 2008. All good things come to an end, WOW is just taking it's time. However, even when the game is down and out there will still be people playing for who knows how long, so don't get overly upset.
No problem if you can't see the simple facts.
The game didn't drop since ... 6 weeks after the launch of WOTLK a single dollar in revenu (look at the 314 M dollar for 1st quarter in 2009). We talk since Dec 31 2008 here.
The game was during 3 months off line in China.
The US video gaming branch had a collapse of -10.6%.: read recession.
And the game got the equal amount of revenu 14 months after the last expansion publication.
Also read up the references I gave you and read the comments of Morhaime of the why and when of CATA.
Then come back and speak about a "6 year old game" again.
Then think why there simply were no WOW killers in these last 3 years.
While I think Zorndorf makes some good points albiet under his new I.D. I would be very suprised to see WoW top 13 million subs . If a game had come along that did get it right in the last few years Warcrafts populations would have crumbled years ago . The contenders just havn't delivered a knockout punch yet . My feeling is Warcraft has most likly peaked but its decline will be slow untill theres something out there to replace it . When there is it'll be like Exodus .
If a game had come along that did get it right in the last few years Warcrafts populations would have crumbled years ago . The contenders just havn't delivered a knockout punch yet .
Tell that to the guys who posted the exactly same thing 3 years ago:
The age of the WOW killers has long been gone. There will be no single WOW killers around. If Lotro, Tr, AoC, War, Co, ST, RoM, Aion and a few dozen others proved anything is that the game will not be killed by a single other game.
If you still want to use the "kill" word, those games above pretty much "killed" each other.
Why? Because simply the player base Blizzard has been building will be spread out in at least 5 games (SC2, D3, WOW, the new MMO and the new console MMO with the wow engine).
I am not Zorn nor Coffee nor Pappy btw. There is more than a few people who like these games, even on this site.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
The complete group of ALL games combined make only 160 million dollars for NC soft for the complete year of 2009. Blizzard counters that with 1.2 billion dollars. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/269073/NCsoft-Q4-2009-financial-report-released-today-.html I don't know where you got those Aion figures. I am sure you invented them on the fly ! So unless you can post hardcore links, it just showed in the above link that NCsoft made: (From Page 18)
Net income Consolidated for 2009 was 185,389 million KRW ($160,251,011.133 USD)
Net income parent for 2009 was 182,506 million KRW ($157,605,409.518 USD)
43% of that 160 millon US dollars is Aion and that's just .... 5.8% of what WOW makes in one year. And NEXT time: publish the links (like I do). Get over it: those supposed pre launch 3.5 M never happened. Everyone knows it. Everyone can see the financials too. It was a launching gimmick and a bad one too for all the western players that fell into the trap.
Ill will tell it just one time:
You
compared
Blizzard Net Revenues/Sales
to
NCSofts Net Income
in believe/as if NC Softs Net Income is the same as their Sales/NetRevenue
Net Income is not the same thing as Net Revenues/Sales
If you are not even familar with the basic difference of those two significant entries, why do you even bother to refer to financial reports or argue about and with them?
To give a simplified sample:
Selling 1000 gameboxes for 50$ each results into Net Revenues/Sales of 50.000$ => What you counted in case of Blizzard
The Net Income are those 50.000$, minus the total cost to produce those gameboxes, administary and operating expenditures, taxes, etc the rest is the Net Income => what you counted for NCSoft as Net Revenues
Or simply just look under the correct name, when you want to compare the Net Revenues/Sales to Net Revenues/Sales.
Here a picture of what you did, on the source itself:
The source of all above numbers are linked to int he post you just posted youself. I also named the source the quarterly reports of NC before. Typing "NCSoft" and "quarterly" into google should not be all unfamilar to someone who argues about NC Softs financies.
But here again the same source you cited just yourself before
Aion Sales are to find like in every report on the page for "Sales Breakdown"
All the numbers both you and I cited are and stand still correct. Not your interpretation of them and those calculation results you came up with.
Edit: let allone all the other ignored variables, like different population distribution in East and West and different salesmodels resulting into different revenue results without even touching on the total subscribernumbers. But im too tired now...
Thanks Sukiyaki glad to see someone acting rationally.
Didn't know I'd ruffle the feathers of the WoW fanboys so badly. It's like they are almost offended by the notion that there is any other mmo out there that has subs in the millions. Not sure why, if the mmo market continues to grow can only lead to more mmos and (hopefully) improved existing mmos. Heck Guild Wars has an estimated 2 million players, but people tend to ignore/forget that since the game has no subscription. Just because Game A has X subs more than Game B doesn't mean that Game A is better or worse.
Thanks Sukiyaki glad to see someone acting rationally. Didn't know I'd ruffle the feathers of the WoW fanboys so badly. It's like they are almost offended by the notion that there is any other mmo out there that has subs in the millions. Not sure why, if the mmo market continues to grow can only lead to more mmos and (hopefully) improved existing mmos. Heck Guild Wars has an estimated 2 million players, but people tend to ignore/forget that since the game has no subscription. Just because Game A has X subs more than Game B doesn't mean that Game A is better or worse.
Acting rationally???
Being confronted with Blizzard's 1.2 billion dollars against NCsoft's 160 million dollars on a yearly basis of which only ... 43% comes from Aion it shows the "million players" of Aion aren't there. it is that simple.
Thanks Sukiyaki glad to see someone acting rationally. Didn't know I'd ruffle the feathers of the WoW fanboys so badly. It's like they are almost offended by the notion that there is any other mmo out there that has subs in the millions. Not sure why, if the mmo market continues to grow can only lead to more mmos and (hopefully) improved existing mmos. Heck Guild Wars has an estimated 2 million players, but people tend to ignore/forget that since the game has no subscription. Just because Game A has X subs more than Game B doesn't mean that Game A is better or worse.
Acting rationally???
Being confronted with Blizzard's 1.2 billion dollars against NCsoft's 160 million dollars on a yearly basis of which only ... 43% comes from Aion it shows the "million players" of Aion aren't there. it is that simple.
Thanks Sukiyaki glad to see someone acting rationally. Didn't know I'd ruffle the feathers of the WoW fanboys so badly. It's like they are almost offended by the notion that there is any other mmo out there that has subs in the millions. Not sure why, if the mmo market continues to grow can only lead to more mmos and (hopefully) improved existing mmos. Heck Guild Wars has an estimated 2 million players, but people tend to ignore/forget that since the game has no subscription. Just because Game A has X subs more than Game B doesn't mean that Game A is better or worse.
Acting rationally???
Being confronted with Blizzard's 1.2 billion dollars against NCsoft's 160 million dollars on a yearly basis of which only ... 43% comes from Aion it shows the "million players" of Aion aren't there. it is that simple.
Thanks Sukiyaki glad to see someone acting rationally. Didn't know I'd ruffle the feathers of the WoW fanboys so badly. It's like they are almost offended by the notion that there is any other mmo out there that has subs in the millions. Not sure why, if the mmo market continues to grow can only lead to more mmos and (hopefully) improved existing mmos. Heck Guild Wars has an estimated 2 million players, but people tend to ignore/forget that since the game has no subscription. Just because Game A has X subs more than Game B doesn't mean that Game A is better or worse.
Acting rationally???
Being confronted with Blizzard's 1.2 billion dollars against NCsoft's 160 million dollars on a yearly basis of which only ... 43% comes from Aion it shows the "million players" of Aion aren't there. it is that simple.
I am not Zorndorf, where is that dude btw? At least we have some thing in common. Logical financial sense.
Man, you just made my day. Havn't laughed that hard in a while. Keep up the good work buddy.
Cheers.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Thanks Sukiyaki glad to see someone acting rationally. Didn't know I'd ruffle the feathers of the WoW fanboys so badly. It's like they are almost offended by the notion that there is any other mmo out there that has subs in the millions. Not sure why, if the mmo market continues to grow can only lead to more mmos and (hopefully) improved existing mmos. Heck Guild Wars has an estimated 2 million players, but people tend to ignore/forget that since the game has no subscription. Just because Game A has X subs more than Game B doesn't mean that Game A is better or worse.
Acting rationally???
Being confronted with Blizzard's 1.2 billion dollars against NCsoft's 160 million dollars on a yearly basis of which only ... 43% comes from Aion it shows the "million players" of Aion aren't there. it is that simple.
gives a very good break and analysis on NC soft total income for 2009:
55% of the total NCSoft income comes from ... ONE country: Korea.
And that Suk guy is a genious in twisting simply figures.
for example the "slide" he shows with some 600 ... million is in KOREAN money.
The ratio of today between US dollars and KW = 1,0000 KRW = 0,0009 USD
Comparing the income of Aion to WOW is around 43% of 160 million dollars to 1.2 billion dollars on a yearly basis as seen in the 2009 fiscal reports.
That's 5.8% of the WOW market. No way Aion has multi million subs (as the total income simply is not there).
US dollars that is
Logical: since 55% of all NCSoft income comes from South Korea.
Compared to Blizzard ----> NCSoft is a rather small publisher in view of the finances and only 43% comes from Aion.
Everyone with a decent open mind knows that by viewing the sheet balances.
Dude you edit your text and underline shit just like Zorndorf!!! Holy crap you are Zorndorf!!!!!!
Where's the
))))) <--------- laughing faces you always make zorn.
I am not Zorndorf, where is that dude btw?
At least we have some thing in common.
Logical financial sense.
Dude its crazy similar, you guys type up your posts exactly the same.
Might as well start using his laughing face )))) and you would replace the guy if you arent him.
He probably got banned for 6 months for using alts.
I have to agree, if Camp's not Zorndorf' its his twin brother. Both have the same cult like fanaticism about WOW, similar belief that WOW somehow is a sandbox and the same caustic writing style.
Have to stay on topic, WOWs actually in a decline, even if they fail to acknowledge it. That will all be erased by the new expansion, at least for a few months.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Have to stay on topic, WOWs actually in a decline, even if they fail to acknowledge it. That will all be erased by the new expansion, at least for a few months.
The revenu of the Blizz's last quarter in 2009 was greater than the first quarter of 2009...
Show me the financial decline between those 2 quarters ...The only small decline was in the third quarter (Jul-Sep) because China was out back then.
I think Blizzard was very honest when they stated the subs stayed around 11.5 million, because the financial income proved it between the first and last Q of 2009.
The small higher % inc of Oct-Dec 2009 could be attributed to XMAs sales (but on the other hand the first Q profited from a "newer" Wotlk launch too).
So you don't have financial proof it is in a decline.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
with the new titles that are about to come out i dont think they give a shit about some ppl canceling theyr subs to wow.
Enlighten us with the new titles and so wxe can have all a good laugh.
Blizzards next mmo lol
In ... 2015 at the earliest (perhaps)...
Think they will wait that long?
I don't know man sooner or later even the crack addict type wow players will get bored if they wait that long.
I honestly dont see blizzard releasing much more after cata. Maybe content catches but I think their developers would be best used on a new game so they could stay on top . Wait too long and someone will bump them off, then noone will give a shit about their new mmo.
I don't know man sooner or later even the crack addict type wow players will get bored if they wait that long.
I honestly dont see blizzard releasing much more after cata. Maybe content catches but I think their developers would be best used on a new game so they could stay on top . Wait too long and someone will bump them off, then noone will give a shit about their new mmo.
Let's see: 2010 SC - Cata
2011: SC exp
2012: D 3 + WOW Exp (+ the WOW movie launched at the same time)
2013: SC exp 2
2014: ?... But knowing Blizzard it could even be another 2 years extra .... I think 8 years development is the minimum for their next MMO (2007+ 8 years = ...).
And for Blizzard the above scheme is already a very crowded one ...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Does it matter? if they lost 80% of there current subs they still have more subs then any other game out. Unless somthing better comes along which so far hasent they will only lose minimal people anyway. WoW isnt going anywhere for a long time hate it or not.
Oh yes it matters to many of us.
Sure it will be around for a long time, but now we actually know that WOW hasn't grown since 2008. One could wager that WOW will finally begin it's inevitable decline in the next couple of years. As WOW loses it monstrous grip on the industry, we will then have a much healthier environment for new MMOs. WOW has certainly had it's time. This is fantastic news.
Could you tell me how can WoW have a monsterous grip on the industry thus keeping other companies from making good MMORPG's even though their subs haven't gone up in two years and perhaps are declining? I just don't get that logic.
So what is stopping other companies from making a better game than WoW. Nothing except themselves. I originally started playing City of Heroes but after a couple of years I got bored with it. I tried WoW three times because Coh was getting extremely stale. The third time I stuck with it and found it quite enjoyable. Since then I have tried CO,GW, and various F2P games and found that there was always something that just ruined it for me. Be it bad Voice overs or the games being full of bugs.
Recently I play Coh again and even though they added new features to the game, I had a hard time finding anything to do on my main and lowbies. Not to mention there is hardly anyone on. So should we all gather are pitchforks and go to Cryptic and Atari's HQ? Or blame them for CoH slowly dieing out? No. Because that's the way it works. If you make a game good enough to beat your competition then grats to you. If you can't, then come up with one that will. Competition is a good thing. What if Aion kills Wow? Would that make you happy? Personally I would much rather have the great customer service blizz offers than NC Softs lack of Customer Service.
Comments
I mean, are you actually serious with this or is it some kind of sarcastic joke?
let us get one thing straight:
WOW has a Yearly revenu of 1.23 billion dollars in 2009.
Aion has 43% of ... 160 million dollars (NCSoft reveny). 49% of that revenu came from L1 and L2 and the rest came from Guild Wars etc.
So WOW has a confirmed subsription of 11.5 million with a yearly revenu of 1.2 billion dollars (give or take a few cents).
While Aion has around 70 million dollars on a yearly basis.
And now the Aion fans come in here telling everyone with a straight face Aion has 3 million subscriptions ?
Always look at the finances and you'll see if there is a sound basis. BTW NCsoft NEVER confirmed ANY subs for Aion.
As a side note: BTW the first quarter figures of 2009 for WOW were slightly lower than the last quarter of 2009 of WOW, so it proved the game was indeed hovering around the same number of subs.
You may annouce your game has a zillion subs for my part, but if the numbers aren't supported by the money bag, they are nothing but hot air. Farmville has a fraction of WOW income and they say they have 70.000.000 players. yeah ... meaningless indeed.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
The complete group of ALL games combined make only 160 million dollars for NC soft for the complete year of 2009.
Blizzard counters that with 1.2 billion dollars.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/269073/NCsoft-Q4-2009-financial-report-released-today-.html
I don't know where you got those Aion figures. I am sure you invented them on the fly !
How come I am not surprised seeing this kind of non link confirmed posts from ... the Korean Aion game.
So unless you can post official report hardcore links, it just showed in the above link that NCsoft made:
(From Page 18)
Net income Consolidated for 2009 was 185,389 million KRW ($160,251,011.133 USD)
Net income parent for 2009 was 182,506 million KRW ($157,605,409.518 USD)
43% of that 160 millon US dollars is Aion and that's just .... 5.8% of what WOW makes in one year.
And NEXT time: publish the links (like I do).
Get over it: those supposed pre launch 3.5 M never happened. Everyone knows it. Everyone can see the financials too. It was a launching gimmick and a bad one too for all the western players that fell into the trap.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
You think WoW is all about raiding so you went to Everquest? Good luck with that!
Blizzard will have two triple A games on the shelf along with Cataclysm while WoW cools down. Then they'll drop their next MMO...boom.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
A new twist to this thread...
Cataclysm will now launch on a 11.5 (active) million player basis with all leveling lands 1-60 being redone as "state of the Blizzard art" 2010. Active players counting, not counting double that figure who will have a look.
With the complete dreath in MMO land these days, I am afraid for my server access times. I'll repost this thread at the end of the yearly subscription announcement. in 2010/2011:)
If Blizzard can bring back the PvP rated BG competition with their titles (as promised) and this time with PvP guild leveling and play (as promised), tell me what's going to stop them?
A solo on line space adventure game with NPC henchmen ? or an Asian Fantasy pure PVE game?
You don't have to be a genious to see the immediate future concerning mmo's...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
If I was as happily hopeful as you, man life would be a hell of a lot less stressful
This is a near 6 year old game that has not grown in subscribers (as per Blizzard) since 2008. All good things come to an end, WOW is just taking it's time. However, even when the game is down and out there will still be people playing for who knows how long, so don't get overly upset.
No problem if you can't see the simple facts.
The game didn't drop since ... 6 weeks after the launch of WOTLK a single dollar in revenu (look at the 314 M dollar for 1st quarter in 2009). We talk since Dec 31 2008 here.
The game was during 3 months off line in China.
The US video gaming branch had a collapse of -10.6%.: read recession.
And the game got the equal amount of revenu 14 months after the last expansion publication.
Also read up the references I gave you and read the comments of Morhaime of the why and when of CATA.
Then come back and speak about a "6 year old game" again.
Then think why there simply were no WOW killers in these last 3 years.
While I think Zorndorf makes some good points albiet under his new I.D. I would be very suprised to see WoW top 13 million subs . If a game had come along that did get it right in the last few years Warcrafts populations would have crumbled years ago . The contenders just havn't delivered a knockout punch yet . My feeling is Warcraft has most likly peaked but its decline will be slow untill theres something out there to replace it . When there is it'll be like Exodus .
Tell that to the guys who posted the exactly same thing 3 years ago:
The age of the WOW killers has long been gone. There will be no single WOW killers around. If Lotro, Tr, AoC, War, Co, ST, RoM, Aion and a few dozen others proved anything is that the game will not be killed by a single other game.
If you still want to use the "kill" word, those games above pretty much "killed" each other.
Why? Because simply the player base Blizzard has been building will be spread out in at least 5 games (SC2, D3, WOW, the new MMO and the new console MMO with the wow engine).
I am not Zorn nor Coffee nor Pappy btw. There is more than a few people who like these games, even on this site.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Ill will tell it just one time:
You
compared
Blizzard Net Revenues/Sales
to
NCSofts Net Income
in believe/as if NC Softs Net Income is the same as their Sales/NetRevenue
Net Income is not the same thing as Net Revenues/Sales
If you are not even familar with the basic difference of those two significant entries, why do you even bother to refer to financial reports or argue about and with them?
To give a simplified sample:
Selling 1000 gameboxes for 50$ each results into Net Revenues/Sales of 50.000$ => What you counted in case of Blizzard
The Net Income are those 50.000$, minus the total cost to produce those gameboxes, administary and operating expenditures, taxes, etc the rest is the Net Income => what you counted for NCSoft as Net Revenues
Or simply just look under the correct name, when you want to compare the Net Revenues/Sales to Net Revenues/Sales.
Here a picture of what you did, on the source itself:
The source of all above numbers are linked to int he post you just posted youself. I also named the source the quarterly reports of NC before. Typing "NCSoft" and "quarterly" into google should not be all unfamilar to someone who argues about NC Softs financies.
But here again the same source you cited just yourself before
www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/prfile.aspx
Here for each of the rest of all financially results i got the Aionsalesnumbers from.
www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/quarterly.aspx
Aion Sales are to find like in every report on the page for "Sales Breakdown"
All the numbers both you and I cited are and stand still correct. Not your interpretation of them and those calculation results you came up with.
Edit: let allone all the other ignored variables, like different population distribution in East and West and different salesmodels resulting into different revenue results without even touching on the total subscribernumbers. But im too tired now...
Thanks Sukiyaki glad to see someone acting rationally.
Didn't know I'd ruffle the feathers of the WoW fanboys so badly. It's like they are almost offended by the notion that there is any other mmo out there that has subs in the millions. Not sure why, if the mmo market continues to grow can only lead to more mmos and (hopefully) improved existing mmos. Heck Guild Wars has an estimated 2 million players, but people tend to ignore/forget that since the game has no subscription. Just because Game A has X subs more than Game B doesn't mean that Game A is better or worse.
well .. NO market keeps on growing forever. WOW is no exception.
11.5M is still impressive. Even if they can just keep the level for years, it would be a big win.
Acting rationally???
Being confronted with Blizzard's 1.2 billion dollars against NCsoft's 160 million dollars on a yearly basis of which only ... 43% comes from Aion it shows the "million players" of Aion aren't there. it is that simple.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/269073/NCsoft-Q4-2009-financial-report-released-today-.html
gives a very good break and analysis on NC soft total income for 2009:
55% of the total NCSoft income comes from ... ONE country: Korea.
And that Suk guy is a genious in twisting simply figures.
for example the "slide" he shows with some 600 ... million is in KOREAN money.
The ratio of today between US dollars and KW = 1,0000 KRW = 0,0009 USD
Comparing the income of Aion to WOW is around 43% of 160 million dollars to 1.2 billion dollars on a yearly basis as seen in the 2009 fiscal reports.
That's 5.8% of the WOW market. No way Aion has multi million subs (as the total income simply is not there).
US dollars that is
Logical: since 55% of all NCSoft income comes from South Korea.
Compared to Blizzard ----> NCSoft is a rather small publisher in view of the finances and only 43% comes from Aion.
Everyone with a decent open mind knows that by viewing the sheet balances.
The fact that he's trying to twist it with "millions of inflated Korean W's" in a slide which hides the above ratio is a good one.
it shows the Aion game was always about Korean hype and exagerated numbers to "impress" the western market.
It doesn't work that way: first you need to have a good product, because the fiancial figures afterwards always hunt you down.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Acting rationally???
Being confronted with Blizzard's 1.2 billion dollars against NCsoft's 160 million dollars on a yearly basis of which only ... 43% comes from Aion it shows the "million players" of Aion aren't there. it is that simple.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/269073/NCsoft-Q4-2009-financial-report-released-today-.html
gives a very good break and analysis on NC soft total income for 2009:
55% of the total NCSoft income comes from ... ONE country: Korea.
And that Suk guy is a genious in twisting simply figures.
for example the "slide" he shows with some 600 ... million is in KOREAN money.
The ratio of today between US dollars and KW = 1,0000 KRW = 0,0009 USD
Comparing the income of Aion to WOW is around 43% of 160 million dollars to 1.2 billion dollars on a yearly basis as seen in the 2009 fiscal reports.
That's 5.8% of the WOW market. No way Aion has multi million subs (as the total income simply is not there).
US dollars that is
Logical: since 55% of all NCSoft income comes from South Korea.
Compared to Blizzard ----> NCSoft is a rather small publisher in view of the finances and only 43% comes from Aion.
Everyone with a decent open mind knows that by viewing the sheet balances.
Hmmm this guy edits his posts just like Zorndorf. You guys remember him?
I swear if he uses that dumb
)))))) face its him lol.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
with the new titles that are about to come out i dont think they give a shit about some ppl canceling theyr subs to wow.
tfhfh
Acting rationally???
Being confronted with Blizzard's 1.2 billion dollars against NCsoft's 160 million dollars on a yearly basis of which only ... 43% comes from Aion it shows the "million players" of Aion aren't there. it is that simple.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/269073/NCsoft-Q4-2009-financial-report-released-today-.html
gives a very good break and analysis on NC soft total income for 2009:
55% of the total NCSoft income comes from ... ONE country: Korea.
And that Suk guy is a genious in twisting simply figures.
for example the "slide" he shows with some 600 ... million is in KOREAN money.
The ratio of today between US dollars and KW = 1,0000 KRW = 0,0009 USD
Comparing the income of Aion to WOW is around 43% of 160 million dollars to 1.2 billion dollars on a yearly basis as seen in the 2009 fiscal reports.
That's 5.8% of the WOW market. No way Aion has multi million subs (as the total income simply is not there).
US dollars that is
Logical: since 55% of all NCSoft income comes from South Korea.
Compared to Blizzard ----> NCSoft is a rather small publisher in view of the finances and only 43% comes from Aion.
Everyone with a decent open mind knows that by viewing the sheet balances.
Dude you edit your text and underline shit just like Zorndorf!!! Holy crap you are Zorndorf!!!!!!
Where's the
I am not Zorndorf, where is that dude btw?
At least we have some thing in common.
Logical financial sense.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Acting rationally???
Being confronted with Blizzard's 1.2 billion dollars against NCsoft's 160 million dollars on a yearly basis of which only ... 43% comes from Aion it shows the "million players" of Aion aren't there. it is that simple.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/269073/NCsoft-Q4-2009-financial-report-released-today-.html
gives a very good break and analysis on NC soft total income for 2009:
55% of the total NCSoft income comes from ... ONE country: Korea.
And that Suk guy is a genious in twisting simply figures.
for example the "slide" he shows with some 600 ... million is in KOREAN money.
The ratio of today between US dollars and KW = 1,0000 KRW = 0,0009 USD
Comparing the income of Aion to WOW is around 43% of 160 million dollars to 1.2 billion dollars on a yearly basis as seen in the 2009 fiscal reports.
That's 5.8% of the WOW market. No way Aion has multi million subs (as the total income simply is not there).
US dollars that is
Logical: since 55% of all NCSoft income comes from South Korea.
Compared to Blizzard ----> NCSoft is a rather small publisher in view of the finances and only 43% comes from Aion.
Everyone with a decent open mind knows that by viewing the sheet balances.
Dude you edit your text and underline shit just like Zorndorf!!! Holy crap you are Zorndorf!!!!!!
Where's the
I am not Zorndorf, where is that dude btw?
At least we have some thing in common.
Logical financial sense.
Dude its crazy similar, you guys type up your posts exactly the same.
Might as well start using his laughing face
)))) and you would replace the guy if you arent him.
He probably got banned for 6 months for using alts.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Man, you just made my day. Havn't laughed that hard in a while. Keep up the good work buddy.
Cheers.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Enlighten us with the new titles and so we can have all a good laugh.
Oh btw I miss Zorndorf and Coffee.
All got banned.perhaps?.. for what? Analysing the mmorpg market and bringing news on WOW ?
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Enlighten us with the new titles and so wxe can have all a good laugh.
Blizzards next mmo lol
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Acting rationally???
Being confronted with Blizzard's 1.2 billion dollars against NCsoft's 160 million dollars on a yearly basis of which only ... 43% comes from Aion it shows the "million players" of Aion aren't there. it is that simple.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/269073/NCsoft-Q4-2009-financial-report-released-today-.html
gives a very good break and analysis on NC soft total income for 2009:
55% of the total NCSoft income comes from ... ONE country: Korea.
And that Suk guy is a genious in twisting simply figures.
for example the "slide" he shows with some 600 ... million is in KOREAN money.
The ratio of today between US dollars and KW = 1,0000 KRW = 0,0009 USD
Comparing the income of Aion to WOW is around 43% of 160 million dollars to 1.2 billion dollars on a yearly basis as seen in the 2009 fiscal reports.
That's 5.8% of the WOW market. No way Aion has multi million subs (as the total income simply is not there).
US dollars that is
Logical: since 55% of all NCSoft income comes from South Korea.
Compared to Blizzard ----> NCSoft is a rather small publisher in view of the finances and only 43% comes from Aion.
Everyone with a decent open mind knows that by viewing the sheet balances.
Dude you edit your text and underline shit just like Zorndorf!!! Holy crap you are Zorndorf!!!!!!
Where's the
I am not Zorndorf, where is that dude btw?
At least we have some thing in common.
Logical financial sense.
Dude its crazy similar, you guys type up your posts exactly the same.
Might as well start using his laughing face
)))) and you would replace the guy if you arent him.
He probably got banned for 6 months for using alts.
I have to agree, if Camp's not Zorndorf' its his twin brother. Both have the same cult like fanaticism about WOW, similar belief that WOW somehow is a sandbox and the same caustic writing style.
Have to stay on topic, WOWs actually in a decline, even if they fail to acknowledge it. That will all be erased by the new expansion, at least for a few months.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
IF Burning Crusade has not been released in china, and is about to soon, followed by WotLK, I would expect subs to jump again.
It's weird how people seem to think that blizzard losing maybe 1 million subs would affect the game in any sort of way.
The revenu of the Blizz's last quarter in 2009 was greater than the first quarter of 2009...
Show me the financial decline between those 2 quarters ...The only small decline was in the third quarter (Jul-Sep) because China was out back then.
I think Blizzard was very honest when they stated the subs stayed around 11.5 million, because the financial income proved it between the first and last Q of 2009.
The small higher % inc of Oct-Dec 2009 could be attributed to XMAs sales (but on the other hand the first Q profited from a "newer" Wotlk launch too).
So you don't have financial proof it is in a decline.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
That's a lot of money man. Blizzard has a pretty sick sized dev team and im sure more people to pay than most mmos.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Enlighten us with the new titles and so wxe can have all a good laugh.
Blizzards next mmo lol
In ... 2015 at the earliest (perhaps)...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Enlighten us with the new titles and so wxe can have all a good laugh.
Blizzards next mmo lol
In ... 2015 at the earliest (perhaps)...
Think they will wait that long?
I don't know man sooner or later even the crack addict type wow players will get bored if they wait that long.
I honestly dont see blizzard releasing much more after cata. Maybe content catches but I think their developers would be best used on a new game so they could stay on top . Wait too long and someone will bump them off, then noone will give a shit about their new mmo.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Think they will wait that long?
I don't know man sooner or later even the crack addict type wow players will get bored if they wait that long.
I honestly dont see blizzard releasing much more after cata. Maybe content catches but I think their developers would be best used on a new game so they could stay on top . Wait too long and someone will bump them off, then noone will give a shit about their new mmo.
Let's see: 2010 SC - Cata
2011: SC exp
2012: D 3 + WOW Exp (+ the WOW movie launched at the same time)
2013: SC exp 2
2014: ?... But knowing Blizzard it could even be another 2 years extra .... I think 8 years development is the minimum for their next MMO (2007+ 8 years = ...).
And for Blizzard the above scheme is already a very crowded one ...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Oh yes it matters to many of us.
Sure it will be around for a long time, but now we actually know that WOW hasn't grown since 2008. One could wager that WOW will finally begin it's inevitable decline in the next couple of years. As WOW loses it monstrous grip on the industry, we will then have a much healthier environment for new MMOs. WOW has certainly had it's time. This is fantastic news.
Could you tell me how can WoW have a monsterous grip on the industry thus keeping other companies from making good MMORPG's even though their subs haven't gone up in two years and perhaps are declining? I just don't get that logic.
So what is stopping other companies from making a better game than WoW. Nothing except themselves. I originally started playing City of Heroes but after a couple of years I got bored with it. I tried WoW three times because Coh was getting extremely stale. The third time I stuck with it and found it quite enjoyable. Since then I have tried CO,GW, and various F2P games and found that there was always something that just ruined it for me. Be it bad Voice overs or the games being full of bugs.
Recently I play Coh again and even though they added new features to the game, I had a hard time finding anything to do on my main and lowbies. Not to mention there is hardly anyone on. So should we all gather are pitchforks and go to Cryptic and Atari's HQ? Or blame them for CoH slowly dieing out? No. Because that's the way it works. If you make a game good enough to beat your competition then grats to you. If you can't, then come up with one that will. Competition is a good thing. What if Aion kills Wow? Would that make you happy? Personally I would much rather have the great customer service blizz offers than NC Softs lack of Customer Service.