There still is bosses that people can't do easily. The lich king has still hardly been downed at all and you are saying everyone has done all the pve because its so easy? No it really isn't. The heroic starter end game pve is easy. Once you are at ICC 25 it all changes. Sure it wasn't as hard as it was back in pre bc, but back then how easy was it to actually get 40 people for a mc run even in a raiding guild.
Not what it used to be.
I remember guilds were so afraid of Naxx, because gold meant something back then, and they didn't want to chain wipe in Naxx and waste all their money. Guilds wouldn't even go in because of that..
That is how WoW should have been. A few zones that most people are afraid of touching, it gives the players something to work toward.
Having all of the instances the same, what do you work toward? It's just a game where you log in and say "what instance do I want today" instead of "what should we do to progress toward instance X"
No that is bad. That means the zones are wasted on most people. Now people can experience the content and find challenges in hard modes.
Very popular. Make the GAME much better. If a small percentage of hardcore players moan & groan .. so be it. No one cares.
yep, and that is why Blizzard changed things. They were tired of spending all this money and manhours on content a very small percentage of the playerbase actually got to see.
That would be like an amusement park making a rollercoaster that was so intense, only those hardcore rollercoaster riders in the best physical condition could ride it. You would have the rest of the patrons saying "damn, that looks fucking awesome, I wish I could ride it, but I can't, and never will be able to, so fuck it, I'm going home." Then the manager of the park says, "wait a sec, if we make the ride 10% slower, more people would be able to ride it, and most of those people that just left the park will get to ride and keep giving us money instead of going home!"
Blizzard, and quite intelligently, decided to throttle down the ride so more people could experience it, and hence not piss away all that money they spent developing it. And then, the made a harder version of it for the "hardcore", so they would still have a challenge.
The problem is, the "hardcore" didn't want a challenge. They want to be able to say I am better than everyone else, so they whine.
Welp, I guess Blizzard isnt done cheapening MMOs. They became the greatest pay to play MMO. Now theyve gotta outdo all the Free to Play games for ingame trash.
since when have you ever known every single player on any game server let alone a portion of said players? and warcraft isnt the only game to do this. Sometimes people get sick of their said name or want to change servers to join a friend or just get plain tired of looking at a male dwarfs butt(but changing to a female dwarf I dont think will fix that particular problem)
Back when I played a real MMORPG called EQ.
Of course when you got 8k name changing level 80s on your server you cant really know anyone.
sry to say it but I dont believe you unless EQ had very few people on 1 server
While the OP's post is a bit over the top he is right about EQ1. Reputation did matter. People that were bad players did not get good groups, This was because of the mechanics of the game required interdependency which is something WoW does not require. Unlike EQ1 people in WoW have always been able to level without help from others. Which means they can be as a big jerk as they want to and get away it as there are no consequences. Given the type of gameplay WoW has I think the orginal posters points do not make any sense simply because reputation does not matter in WoW or any game nowadays for that matter. Server reputation means nothing in all games now rather people are isoloated by their personal relationships and guilds. Which makes transferring characters and name changes meaningless.
All that being said I would love to see a game that made reputation matter like EQ1. In EQ1 players showed curtsey to other players. Good players would never leave a group without an hour warning notice and hopefully finding their own replacement. People would not steal camps they would do camp checks. Kill stealing and rude behavior was almost unheard of as essentially those players would have to reroll. Like the real world reputation mattered more than anything else. We will never have those days back but we should feel fortunate for having been there.
Well said. EQ1 was the last of the greats in my opinion. People treated each other with courtesy and respect because your rep was everything.
As for the topic, EQ had name changes years and years ago - BUT, they gave you the ability to look up someone's name and see any other names they had. You couldn't run from your rep there. I don't know if this still holds true now, but it did.
since when have you ever known every single player on any game server let alone a portion of said players? and warcraft isnt the only game to do this. Sometimes people get sick of their said name or want to change servers to join a friend or just get plain tired of looking at a male dwarfs butt(but changing to a female dwarf I dont think will fix that particular problem)
Back when I played a real MMORPG called EQ.
Of course when you got 8k name changing level 80s on your server you cant really know anyone.
sry to say it but I dont believe you unless EQ had very few people on 1 server
While the OP's post is a bit over the top he is right about EQ1. Reputation did matter. People that were bad players did not get good groups, This was because of the mechanics of the game required interdependency which is something WoW does not require. Unlike EQ1 people in WoW have always been able to level without help from others. Which means they can be as a big jerk as they want to and get away it as there are no consequences. Given the type of gameplay WoW has I think the orginal posters points do not make any sense simply because reputation does not matter in WoW or any game nowadays for that matter. Server reputation means nothing in all games now rather people are isoloated by their personal relationships and guilds. Which makes transferring characters and name changes meaningless.
All that being said I would love to see a game that made reputation matter like EQ1. In EQ1 players showed curtsey to other players. Good players would never leave a group without an hour warning notice and hopefully finding their own replacement. People would not steal camps they would do camp checks. Kill stealing and rude behavior was almost unheard of as essentially those players would have to reroll. Like the real world reputation mattered more than anything else. We will never have those days back but we should feel fortunate for having been there.
Well said. EQ1 was the last of the greats in my opinion. People treated each other with courtesy and respect because your rep was everything.
As for the topic, EQ had name changes years and years ago - BUT, they gave you the ability to look up someone's name and see any other names they had. You couldn't run from your rep there. I don't know if this still holds true now, but it did.
Acidon
Perhaps I just don't see the past with the same rose colored glasses that everyone else seems to view EQ with.
I vividly recall EQVault being the primary forums for everquest discussion turning into a ghost town once they started enforcing their "no flaming" policy. Once people couldn't openly abuse each other on forums they left.
I also remember soe having to create a special set of rules called "the play nice policy" that was in direct response to how shitty players were being to each other. There is no single better example of just how rotten the community could be when a game company has to create a systems of rules to settle disputes between players that required direct GM intervention. If that doesn't scream non-helpful and toxic playerbase I don't know what does.
It was common place to hear of guilds and players training each other to get at a certain spawn, ninja looting, spawn stealing or just straight up flame wars anytime two opposing players/guilds would enter the same zone.
Yes EQ was a more communal game and reputations meant more, but for lets not pretend eq was some happy farie land filled with puppies and rainbows. There were plenty of players who didn't give a damn about reputations or were connected enough that it didn't matter. Players purposefully griefing each other was a daily event and the level of drama that oozed from everquest is almost without equal in another mmo.
WoW is a game with a collection of instances that can't be changed
EQ is a persistent world that can be changed
What game ever came up with the idea of a persistent world coupled with instanced dungeons? Which one was it again? Let me think, let me think, it will come to me...
(As far as I'm concerned, the MMORPG genre died when they added graphics to it, with UO and EQ. If you need "pictures" and "icons" and "sound effects" to play the game.)
yep, and that is why Blizzard changed things. They were tired of spending all this money and manhours on content a very small percentage of the playerbase actually got to see.
That would be like an amusement park making a rollercoaster that was so intense, only those hardcore rollercoaster riders in the best physical condition could ride it. You would have the rest of the patrons saying "damn, that looks fucking awesome, I wish I could ride it, but I can't, and never will be able to, so fuck it, I'm going home." Then the manager of the park says, "wait a sec, if we make the ride 10% slower, more people would be able to ride it, and most of those people that just left the park will get to ride and keep giving us money instead of going home!"
Blizzard, and quite intelligently, decided to throttle down the ride so more people could experience it, and hence not piss away all that money they spent developing it. And then, the made a harder version of it for the "hardcore", so they would still have a challenge.
The problem is, the "hardcore" didn't want a challenge. They want to be able to say I am better than everyone else, so they whine.
I agree with the fact that they needed to improve accessibility to end-game content. Especially when the focus is on end-game.
Though I understand why hardcore raiders are complaining. In WotLK, it feels like "Ok the only thing you'll do for now is [insert raid instance here]". Once you complete it, you get "Well ok, do it again on one foot, with your eyes closed while counting the Fibonacci Numbers". Then you're stuck doing it for 6-8 months, until new content is released. Meanwhile, you roll a bunch of alts, and with the Triumph badges, you're able to skip 3 tiers of raid content, and go straight to the last available raid dungeon. The previous raid dungeons are ghost towns that everybody is burnt out of.
I agree with the fact that they needed to improve accessibility to end-game content. Especially when the focus is on end-game.
Though I understand why hardcore raiders are complaining. In WotLK, it feels like "Ok the only thing you'll do for now is [insert raid instance here]". Once you complete it, you get "Well ok, do it again on one foot, with your eyes closed while counting the Fibonacci Numbers". Then you're stuck doing it for 6-8 months, until new content is released. Meanwhile, you roll a bunch of alts, and with the Triumph badges, you're able to skip 3 tiers of raid content, and go straight to the last available raid dungeon. The previous raid dungeons are ghost towns that everybody is burnt out of.
And what is the problem with that? No one says all parts of the game need to be accessed by players.
And sometimes they do revamp old content (like Ony lair). Plus, at least all the old 5-man content are being used to level now because of the Dungeon Finder tool. If they expand that to raid content, then those can be used for leveling too.
BTW, i prefer this way than most people don't see the content at all. At least now you have a few months fun with it.
Just because I want something does not mean that it is good or beneficial for me to have it. I did drugs for a long time, I wanted them... but it was not healthy for me to have them. The fact you can change all those things and that players like yourself want them makes me glad that I do not play Wow. Please stay with Wow, and never leave. I would not want your wants contaminating any game I liked.
I have news for you. WOW is a GAME. Those are features that people want. Period.
Well when your game sucks so bad it doesn't get any new players you need to find ways of raising money off the people dumb enough to keep playing. Adding things like server tranfers and name changes is good for business. This game has been so dumbed down over the years to match the player base anyway. At this point the average wow player has the IQ roughly the same as the keyboard I'm typing on. If you are dumb enough to keep playing to pay this you deserve to lose your money anyway and I can't really feel sorry for you.
I agree with the fact that they needed to improve accessibility to end-game content. Especially when the focus is on end-game.
Though I understand why hardcore raiders are complaining. In WotLK, it feels like "Ok the only thing you'll do for now is [insert raid instance here]". Once you complete it, you get "Well ok, do it again on one foot, with your eyes closed while counting the Fibonacci Numbers". Then you're stuck doing it for 6-8 months, until new content is released. Meanwhile, you roll a bunch of alts, and with the Triumph badges, you're able to skip 3 tiers of raid content, and go straight to the last available raid dungeon. The previous raid dungeons are ghost towns that everybody is burnt out of.
And what is the problem with that? No one says all parts of the game need to be accessed by players.
And sometimes they do revamp old content (like Ony lair). Plus, at least all the old 5-man content are being used to level now because of the Dungeon Finder tool. If they expand that to raid content, then those can be used for leveling too.
BTW, i prefer this way than most people don't see the content at all. At least now you have a few months fun with it.
During Burning Crusade guilds still ran Kara towards the end Not top end guilds, but a lot of guilds did. I agree that Sunwell was too hard for most of us (trash mobs could one shot any T6.5 players at any time). The current format is grindish.
I agree with the fact that they needed to improve accessibility to end-game content. Especially when the focus is on end-game.
Though I understand why hardcore raiders are complaining. In WotLK, it feels like "Ok the only thing you'll do for now is [insert raid instance here]". Once you complete it, you get "Well ok, do it again on one foot, with your eyes closed while counting the Fibonacci Numbers". Then you're stuck doing it for 6-8 months, until new content is released. Meanwhile, you roll a bunch of alts, and with the Triumph badges, you're able to skip 3 tiers of raid content, and go straight to the last available raid dungeon. The previous raid dungeons are ghost towns that everybody is burnt out of.
And what is the problem with that? No one says all parts of the game need to be accessed by players.
And sometimes they do revamp old content (like Ony lair). Plus, at least all the old 5-man content are being used to level now because of the Dungeon Finder tool. If they expand that to raid content, then those can be used for leveling too.
BTW, i prefer this way than most people don't see the content at all. At least now you have a few months fun with it.
Your post is funny. It was deemed a problem, and decided specifically that all players should be able to access all content, by the very developpers of the game. Your post backpeddles.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
There still is bosses that people can't do easily. The lich king has still hardly been downed at all and you are saying everyone has done all the pve because its so easy? No it really isn't. The heroic starter end game pve is easy. Once you are at ICC 25 it all changes. Sure it wasn't as hard as it was back in pre bc, but back then how easy was it to actually get 40 people for a mc run even in a raiding guild.
Not what it used to be.
I remember guilds were so afraid of Naxx, because gold meant something back then, and they didn't want to chain wipe in Naxx and waste all their money. Guilds wouldn't even go in because of that..
That is how WoW should have been. A few zones that most people are afraid of touching, it gives the players something to work toward.
Having all of the instances the same, what do you work toward? It's just a game where you log in and say "what instance do I want today" instead of "what should we do to progress toward instance X"
No that is bad. That means the zones are wasted on most people. Now people can experience the content and find challenges in hard modes.
Very popular. Make the GAME much better. If a small percentage of hardcore players moan & groan .. so be it. No one cares.
yep, and that is why Blizzard changed things. They were tired of spending all this money and manhours on content a very small percentage of the playerbase actually got to see.
That would be like an amusement park making a rollercoaster that was so intense, only those hardcore rollercoaster riders in the best physical condition could ride it. You would have the rest of the patrons saying "damn, that looks fucking awesome, I wish I could ride it, but I can't, and never will be able to, so fuck it, I'm going home." Then the manager of the park says, "wait a sec, if we make the ride 10% slower, more people would be able to ride it, and most of those people that just left the park will get to ride and keep giving us money instead of going home!"
Blizzard, and quite intelligently, decided to throttle down the ride so more people could experience it, and hence not piss away all that money they spent developing it. And then, the made a harder version of it for the "hardcore", so they would still have a challenge.
The problem is, the "hardcore" didn't want a challenge. They want to be able to say I am better than everyone else, so they whine.
10% slower?
They took a 400 foot coaster and made it a 5 foot one.
Newbies should be content wiping in Molten Core. Who cares if they dont "experience the content" or whatever. If they gained some skills, they would be able to do the zones.
Most people in WoW are just lazy and bad. They don't want to adapt so they cry all day about the content being too hard.
Take 40 bad EQ players and they would clear out all of WoWs content.
Yes you are totaly correct..blizzard is milking the cash cow now..they dont care...money talks...people still play it so blame the players...
Other mmo companies only make wow clones or shitty mmos..we are doomed...real mmos are few...eve, darkfall, fallen earth etc...so many thousands of them and all suck ..its amazing.
I have news for you. WOW is a GAME. Those are features that people want. Period.
What he said...
Op takes it a bit too seriously I think.
OzoverlordWorld of Warcraft CorrespondentMemberPosts: 5
After fives years of playing, and yes had a great time, I did find that the game started to get to a point where there were reputation grinds that took LONGER to complete than it did to defeat end game bosses. Hmm level an ALT, experience more. Well 80's on Horde and Alliance, End game content with both. Ok another ALT. I must say I have enjoyed many toons on WOW, but something is missing because after five years my wife and I have cancelled WOW and shut down our Ventrilo server. I find myself looking for the next game. I can't put my finger on what happened. Is gear too easy to get ? Do you start to see players that do not know how to effectively play show off fantastic loot? However a killer blow to me was when Blizzard allowed people to have Horde AND Alliance toons on the same server. WOW is just not worth the $$ or time to me anymore...
Chess is only a game but thats taken very seriously . :P
Luckily Blizzard don't run chess or every piece would be a queen by now .
I don't play Warcraft for the same reason I don't play naughts and crosses/tick tack toe . I grew out of it the second I realised there was no challenge to it any more .
Fortunatly for Blizzard the human race will continue to procreate and there will be an influx of children who love easy and simplistic gameplay for years to come .
Chess is only a game but thats taken very seriously . :P
Luckily Blizzard don't run chess or every piece would be a queen by now .
I don't play Warcraft for the same reason I don't play naughts and crosses/tick tack toe . I grew out of it the second I realised there was no challenge to it any more .
Fortunatly for Blizzard the human race will continue to procreate and there will be an influx of children who love easy and simplistic gameplay for years to come .
Chess is a great analogy for WOW, actually.
A 6-year old can learn Chess and WOW.
A 6-year old is going to suck at Chess and WOW, because it takes a long time to learn all the stuff necessary to play a flawless game.
Is it easy to get to 80? Sure!
Is it easy to move your pawn forward 2 spaces at the start of Chess? Sure!
But does either activity mean you're good at the game? Not at all. There's a lot more to both games than activities which are individually simple.
Is chess deeper than WOW? Absolutely. Many games are. But WOW is on the middle to upper end of game depth; it's not shallow, as much as certain people might insist it is.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I have news for you. WOW is a GAME. Those are features that people want. Period.
What he said...
Op takes it a bit too seriously I think.
I think games used to be challenging.
Mario 1, Mario 2.. NES games, SNES games
Mess up? Start over
Now you can't mess up, now you never start over.
Just seems pointless to play a game when there is nothing challenging about it. WoW is just a chat room with pictures to people like me. When you can log in and do anything in the game and there is nothing to work toward, and all you can do is farm PVE or farm PVP. The game has nothing left.
Chess is only a game but thats taken very seriously . :P
Luckily Blizzard don't run chess or every piece would be a queen by now .
I don't play Warcraft for the same reason I don't play naughts and crosses/tick tack toe . I grew out of it the second I realised there was no challenge to it any more .
Fortunatly for Blizzard the human race will continue to procreate and there will be an influx of children who love easy and simplistic gameplay for years to come .
Chess is a great analogy for WOW, actually.
A 6-year old can learn Chess and WOW.
A 6-year old is going to suck at Chess and WOW, because it takes a long time to learn all the stuff necessary to play a flawless game.
Is it easy to get to 80? Sure!
Is it easy to move your pawn forward 2 spaces at the start of Chess? Sure!
But does either activity mean you're good at the game? Not at all. There's a lot more to both games than activities which are individually simple.
Is chess deeper than WOW? Absolutely. Many games are. But WOW is on the middle to upper end of game depth; it's not shallow, as much as certain people might insist it is.
Lol, a 6 year old is going to suck at WoW?
All you can do in WoW is move your pawn 2 steps forward. Forget the other pieces, WoW decided that the players weren't smart enough to handle anything other than moving forward 1/2 spaces.
If you can log into WoW and clear Zul'Farrak, guess what, you can clear any of their endgame instances too. Because they couldn't handle Molten Core and had to keep nerfing raid zones until 99% of the bad players could do it.
After fives years of playing, and yes had a great time, I did find that the game started to get to a point where there were reputation grinds that took LONGER to complete than it did to defeat end game bosses. Hmm level an ALT, experience more. Well 80's on Horde and Alliance, End game content with both. Ok another ALT. I must say I have enjoyed many toons on WOW, but something is missing because after five years my wife and I have cancelled WOW and shut down our Ventrilo server. I find myself looking for the next game. I can't put my finger on what happened. Is gear too easy to get ? Do you start to see players that do not know how to effectively play show off fantastic loot? However a killer blow to me was when Blizzard allowed people to have Horde AND Alliance toons on the same server. WOW is just not worth the $$ or time to me anymore...
Wow. I relate to everything you said. And we enjoyed it too, until...suddenly we just didn't. My partner and I are now playing a couple of other games.
But OMG...when did they start allowing players to roll Horde and Alliance BOTH on the same PvP server?? WTF? I must have missed that. Myself, I never thought it right to even have Horde and Alliance both on one PvE server, much less PvP. I had all my Alliance toons on Lothar and all my Horde on Tanaris, and never the twain shall meet, imo. For me, even as only an ocassional role player and particularly as an OFTEN times world PvP'er (loved loved loved city raids)...that just seemed wrong to have both on one server, whether PvE or PvP. PvE it's always been allowed by Blizzard though...at least as far as I remember, but PvP now too? Pfffft. What's the point of a PvP server then? There would never be a surprise attack. How utterly boring.
since when have you ever known every single player on any game server let alone a portion of said players? and warcraft isnt the only game to do this. Sometimes people get sick of their said name or want to change servers to join a friend or just get plain tired of looking at a male dwarfs butt(but changing to a female dwarf I dont think will fix that particular problem)
Back when I played a real MMORPG called EQ.
Of course when you got 8k name changing level 80s on your server you cant really know anyone.
I too played EQ and EQ had a fraction of the player base WoW has, and in those early days, the adversities of the game (no ingame maps, very tough death penalties, nekkid corpse runs, etc.) fostered a close community. You NEEDED other players, and they needed you, and total strangers would rush to help get your body back for you, because it could be them in the shitter next time. Most MMOs these days have very little in the way of harsh death penalties, which is sadly what players seem to want, so the need for buddies to help you out is just about gone.
Fun though it is to look back with those good old rose-tinted specs, there's no way you or I knew more than a handful of players really well in EQ and we might have known the character names of maybe a dozen more. In MMO terms, EQ was the equivalent of a small village where you knew most people by sight and could socialize with just about anyone, whereas WoW is a major city crammed with so many players you'll probably never bump into the same player twice unless you make the specific effort to do so.
With so much anonymity in games these days, changing a character's name or even gender is of little importance.
Why is it in cheap kid MMORPGs like WoW, you can take your level 80 male dwarf paladin and turn him into a female, as long as you pay $?
I'm fairly certain you can do that in real life as well regardless of whether people like that feature or not.
LOL. Funny, but true. Now i dont understand this upset about not being able to know everyone, you've got to be kidding, there are millions of players in WOW and at least thousands in a realm, not even if you didicated yourself to know everyone, would you be able to know all. Its the silliest MMO upset ive ever heard.I liked the ability to change realm or race, gives one more obtions to change his posibilities, especially in pvp, i think thats important. Anyway i gave up on WOW, as its all about the gear now and not so much about skill, as it used to be.
After fives years of playing, and yes had a great time, I did find that the game started to get to a point where there were reputation grinds that took LONGER to complete than it did to defeat end game bosses. Hmm level an ALT, experience more. Well 80's on Horde and Alliance, End game content with both. Ok another ALT. I must say I have enjoyed many toons on WOW, but something is missing because after five years my wife and I have cancelled WOW and shut down our Ventrilo server. I find myself looking for the next game. I can't put my finger on what happened. Is gear too easy to get ? Do you start to see players that do not know how to effectively play show off fantastic loot? However a killer blow to me was when Blizzard allowed people to have Horde AND Alliance toons on the same server. WOW is just not worth the $$ or time to me anymore...
Wow. I relate to everything you said. And we enjoyed it too, until...suddenly we just didn't. My partner and I are now playing a couple of other games.
But OMG...when did they start allowing players to roll Horde and Alliance BOTH on the same PvP server?? WTF? I must have missed that. Myself, I never thought it right to even have Horde and Alliance both on one PvE server, much less PvP. I had all my Alliance toons on Lothar and all my Horde on Tanaris, and never the twain shall meet, imo. For me, even as only an ocassional role player and particularly as an OFTEN times world PvP'er (loved loved loved city raids)...that just seemed wrong to have both on one server, whether PvE or PvP. PvE it's always been allowed by Blizzard though...at least as far as I remember, but PvP now too? Pfffft. What's the point of a PvP server then? There would never be a surprise attack. How utterly boring.
No, you can only create alliance and horde on a PVE realm, not on a pvp realm.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW -------- Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD --------- Played and loved: Eve and WoW -------- Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
Comments
yep, and that is why Blizzard changed things. They were tired of spending all this money and manhours on content a very small percentage of the playerbase actually got to see.
That would be like an amusement park making a rollercoaster that was so intense, only those hardcore rollercoaster riders in the best physical condition could ride it. You would have the rest of the patrons saying "damn, that looks fucking awesome, I wish I could ride it, but I can't, and never will be able to, so fuck it, I'm going home." Then the manager of the park says, "wait a sec, if we make the ride 10% slower, more people would be able to ride it, and most of those people that just left the park will get to ride and keep giving us money instead of going home!"
Blizzard, and quite intelligently, decided to throttle down the ride so more people could experience it, and hence not piss away all that money they spent developing it. And then, the made a harder version of it for the "hardcore", so they would still have a challenge.
The problem is, the "hardcore" didn't want a challenge. They want to be able to say I am better than everyone else, so they whine.
Welp, I guess Blizzard isnt done cheapening MMOs. They became the greatest pay to play MMO. Now theyve gotta outdo all the Free to Play games for ingame trash.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
Well said. EQ1 was the last of the greats in my opinion. People treated each other with courtesy and respect because your rep was everything.
As for the topic, EQ had name changes years and years ago - BUT, they gave you the ability to look up someone's name and see any other names they had. You couldn't run from your rep there. I don't know if this still holds true now, but it did.
Acidon
Perhaps I just don't see the past with the same rose colored glasses that everyone else seems to view EQ with.
I vividly recall EQVault being the primary forums for everquest discussion turning into a ghost town once they started enforcing their "no flaming" policy. Once people couldn't openly abuse each other on forums they left.
I also remember soe having to create a special set of rules called "the play nice policy" that was in direct response to how shitty players were being to each other. There is no single better example of just how rotten the community could be when a game company has to create a systems of rules to settle disputes between players that required direct GM intervention. If that doesn't scream non-helpful and toxic playerbase I don't know what does.
It was common place to hear of guilds and players training each other to get at a certain spawn, ninja looting, spawn stealing or just straight up flame wars anytime two opposing players/guilds would enter the same zone.
Yes EQ was a more communal game and reputations meant more, but for lets not pretend eq was some happy farie land filled with puppies and rainbows. There were plenty of players who didn't give a damn about reputations or were connected enough that it didn't matter. Players purposefully griefing each other was a daily event and the level of drama that oozed from everquest is almost without equal in another mmo.
What game ever came up with the idea of a persistent world coupled with instanced dungeons? Which one was it again? Let me think, let me think, it will come to me...
Oh yeah.
THIS ONE.
(As far as I'm concerned, the MMORPG genre died when they added graphics to it, with UO and EQ. If you need "pictures" and "icons" and "sound effects" to play the game.)
[Mod Edit]
I agree with the fact that they needed to improve accessibility to end-game content. Especially when the focus is on end-game.
Though I understand why hardcore raiders are complaining. In WotLK, it feels like "Ok the only thing you'll do for now is [insert raid instance here]". Once you complete it, you get "Well ok, do it again on one foot, with your eyes closed while counting the Fibonacci Numbers". Then you're stuck doing it for 6-8 months, until new content is released. Meanwhile, you roll a bunch of alts, and with the Triumph badges, you're able to skip 3 tiers of raid content, and go straight to the last available raid dungeon. The previous raid dungeons are ghost towns that everybody is burnt out of.
And what is the problem with that? No one says all parts of the game need to be accessed by players.
And sometimes they do revamp old content (like Ony lair). Plus, at least all the old 5-man content are being used to level now because of the Dungeon Finder tool. If they expand that to raid content, then those can be used for leveling too.
BTW, i prefer this way than most people don't see the content at all. At least now you have a few months fun with it.
Well when your game sucks so bad it doesn't get any new players you need to find ways of raising money off the people dumb enough to keep playing. Adding things like server tranfers and name changes is good for business. This game has been so dumbed down over the years to match the player base anyway. At this point the average wow player has the IQ roughly the same as the keyboard I'm typing on. If you are dumb enough to keep playing to pay this you deserve to lose your money anyway and I can't really feel sorry for you.
During Burning Crusade guilds still ran Kara towards the end
Your post is funny. It was deemed a problem, and decided specifically that all players should be able to access all content, by the very developpers of the game. Your post backpeddles.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
10% slower?
They took a 400 foot coaster and made it a 5 foot one.
Newbies should be content wiping in Molten Core. Who cares if they dont "experience the content" or whatever. If they gained some skills, they would be able to do the zones.
Most people in WoW are just lazy and bad. They don't want to adapt so they cry all day about the content being too hard.
Take 40 bad EQ players and they would clear out all of WoWs content.
Yes you are totaly correct..blizzard is milking the cash cow now..they dont care...money talks...people still play it so blame the players...
Other mmo companies only make wow clones or shitty mmos..we are doomed...real mmos are few...eve, darkfall, fallen earth etc...so many thousands of them and all suck ..its amazing.
What he said...
Op takes it a bit too seriously I think.
After fives years of playing, and yes had a great time, I did find that the game started to get to a point where there were reputation grinds that took LONGER to complete than it did to defeat end game bosses. Hmm level an ALT, experience more. Well 80's on Horde and Alliance, End game content with both. Ok another ALT. I must say I have enjoyed many toons on WOW, but something is missing because after five years my wife and I have cancelled WOW and shut down our Ventrilo server. I find myself looking for the next game. I can't put my finger on what happened. Is gear too easy to get ? Do you start to see players that do not know how to effectively play show off fantastic loot? However a killer blow to me was when Blizzard allowed people to have Horde AND Alliance toons on the same server. WOW is just not worth the $$ or time to me anymore...
Chess is only a game but thats taken very seriously . :P
Luckily Blizzard don't run chess or every piece would be a queen by now .
I don't play Warcraft for the same reason I don't play naughts and crosses/tick tack toe . I grew out of it the second I realised there was no challenge to it any more .
Fortunatly for Blizzard the human race will continue to procreate and there will be an influx of children who love easy and simplistic gameplay for years to come .
Chess is a great analogy for WOW, actually.
A 6-year old can learn Chess and WOW.
A 6-year old is going to suck at Chess and WOW, because it takes a long time to learn all the stuff necessary to play a flawless game.
Is it easy to get to 80? Sure!
Is it easy to move your pawn forward 2 spaces at the start of Chess? Sure!
But does either activity mean you're good at the game? Not at all. There's a lot more to both games than activities which are individually simple.
Is chess deeper than WOW? Absolutely. Many games are. But WOW is on the middle to upper end of game depth; it's not shallow, as much as certain people might insist it is.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think games used to be challenging.
Mario 1, Mario 2.. NES games, SNES games
Mess up? Start over
Now you can't mess up, now you never start over.
Just seems pointless to play a game when there is nothing challenging about it. WoW is just a chat room with pictures to people like me. When you can log in and do anything in the game and there is nothing to work toward, and all you can do is farm PVE or farm PVP. The game has nothing left.
Lol, a 6 year old is going to suck at WoW?
All you can do in WoW is move your pawn 2 steps forward. Forget the other pieces, WoW decided that the players weren't smart enough to handle anything other than moving forward 1/2 spaces.
If you can log into WoW and clear Zul'Farrak, guess what, you can clear any of their endgame instances too. Because they couldn't handle Molten Core and had to keep nerfing raid zones until 99% of the bad players could do it.
Wow. I relate to everything you said. And we enjoyed it too, until...suddenly we just didn't. My partner and I are now playing a couple of other games.
But OMG...when did they start allowing players to roll Horde and Alliance BOTH on the same PvP server?? WTF? I must have missed that. Myself, I never thought it right to even have Horde and Alliance both on one PvE server, much less PvP. I had all my Alliance toons on Lothar and all my Horde on Tanaris, and never the twain shall meet, imo. For me, even as only an ocassional role player and particularly as an OFTEN times world PvP'er (loved loved loved city raids)...that just seemed wrong to have both on one server, whether PvE or PvP. PvE it's always been allowed by Blizzard though...at least as far as I remember, but PvP now too? Pfffft. What's the point of a PvP server then? There would never be a surprise attack. How utterly boring.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I too played EQ and EQ had a fraction of the player base WoW has, and in those early days, the adversities of the game (no ingame maps, very tough death penalties, nekkid corpse runs, etc.) fostered a close community. You NEEDED other players, and they needed you, and total strangers would rush to help get your body back for you, because it could be them in the shitter next time. Most MMOs these days have very little in the way of harsh death penalties, which is sadly what players seem to want, so the need for buddies to help you out is just about gone.
Fun though it is to look back with those good old rose-tinted specs, there's no way you or I knew more than a handful of players really well in EQ and we might have known the character names of maybe a dozen more. In MMO terms, EQ was the equivalent of a small village where you knew most people by sight and could socialize with just about anyone, whereas WoW is a major city crammed with so many players you'll probably never bump into the same player twice unless you make the specific effort to do so.
With so much anonymity in games these days, changing a character's name or even gender is of little importance.
Skipper
No, you can only create alliance and horde on a PVE realm, not on a pvp realm.
Skipper
Not as bad as Cryptic.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
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Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
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Played and loved: Eve and WoW
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Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
Ahh, okay. Thank you, Skiper. I thought Blizz had finally really completely lost their marbles. Thanks for clarifying that.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club