I not sure why you would delete this? I don't think I have ever read, why some people don't get this game, said any better
This is how I see it, yes it is selfless promotion to some degree but it is also how I see the game.
In short, It provides the most complete and in depth game for those that enjoy open FFA game play. No other game in the industry has the same level of depth or complexity.
BTW if you watch closely, you can see Batolemaeus almost get podded at the very end : 0
Just one of the many surprises that can occur on a single server.
EvE is so different than any other mmorpg out there right now it can be difficult to get into. The first time I tried it I didn't like it either. Getting into a good corp is vital to enjoying the game. Sure you can solo but you would be missing out on the most fun parts of the game. When you ask somebody who plays your typical fantasy level based game about their character they recite their stats, class, skills and gear, in EvE you get a story about their adventures.
Let me give you a few examples of things I've done in Eve that just don't happen in other games...
I started in a drug manufacturing corp trying to smuggle illegal cargo into high security systems. The concord didn't appreciate that too much.
Spent a lot of time in Gallente militia living in Black Rise. This is where I learned to PvP. Since we were small I had to learn guerilla tactics. For a small corp we made a pretty good name for ourselves.
After that I put on my eye patch and spent a few months as a pirate living outside trade hubs ransoming haulers, mission runners and pretty much anyone else who passed. At the same time fighting other pirate corps trying to lock down the system.
Then joined a null sec alliance of about 1,400 pilots. Up until that time I was used to small gangs of 2-6 people, these guys rolled in fleets of 50-150 complete with logistics and cap support.
Spent some time in a merc corp taking down POS's, performing assassinations, denying resources to corps and doing random war decs.
I just don't get this from other games. I'm done grinding levels and gear, been there, done that. Arenas and battlegrounds are boring and predictable. In Eve the fights are not fair, not predictable and losing is painful. A lot of players view these as negatives but I wouldn't have it any other way.
From my experience I can tell you to have fun in Eve you need to be patient, strategic and be a bit of a gambler.
I'm sorry Dave, but I played EVE and that stuff wasn't in there. How large a hit of crack do I have to take before I login?
It wasn't there? Were you looking with your eyes open?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
It took me a few times before I really "got" EVE. It is the most difficult game to appreciate, but once you do, there is no substitute. All at once, I both hate and love playing EVE. There is no other game that requires as much from it's players, and it will not hesitate to bite you if you mistreat it. It is a simple concept really, you will get out of EVE what you put into it.
OK, I think I am starting to glean what you EVEr's think is fun. Its not so much there is cool stuff to do, its the drama, intrigue and social dynamics. If its something other than this please let me know, but so far that's what I see from the posts. The the RPG portion. Are there any cool PvE elements in the game? Any big event that draws the server together like a galactic plague or something or is it, you're in my space, I am Captain Caveman, pew pew?
Define what you think is cool from a PVE/PVP perspective.
Some folks enjoy amassing wealth, and become market traders and transporters of goods at an epic magnitude that reaps them billions upon billoins of ISK.
Some people enjoy building things, and take great pride in dominating the market in a certain item or enjoy watchnig a Captial ship roll out of the assembly array know they were responsible for its creation.
In my own corp we fight Sleeper NPC's in Class 6 wormholes and intentionally spawn extra Battleships by provoking the sleepers with Dreadnaughts and Carriers, making tons of ISK, lots of laughs when it goes bad (Pop goes the Carrier, oh damn) and best of all, whenever someone comes nosing around in our space, we surprise them with a ferocious attack and let them know why they should fear discovring a wormhole link to our system.
Some people enjoy managing corporations (lunatics) or alliances (totally insane) or even star empires (universe domination at its finest). The amount of time and effort some people put into this is phenomenal, and the amount of diplomacy, deceit and power it takes to accomplish some of these goals is amazing to me. (Curse this day job and family)
Some people like to be terrors of the spaceways, holding ships and pods for ransom and killing those who fail to pay. (and even some who do pay). Others hunt pirates, still more run Mercanary corps for hire etc etc.
The part of EVE you've focused on is strictly the tool using side, and that's all those things are is tools, they are not the actual game itself. You and many of the others who decry this game have never experienced the glory of the EVE universe that can only be found through interacting with other players (or killing them) and are missing out on what can be an amazing gaming experience.
But as mentioned EVE's not for everyone, we all have different tastes (I for one, abhor FPS'ers and console games) so not a big deal if you don't "get it".
All you get in the beginning IS tools. Part of your description is what I was attempting to get at from the beginning. If all I get at the beginning is boredom and monotony, is there something in the end that makes it worthwhile (I dont care if its PvE or PvP). It is easy to decry because its not easy to see the outcome. The scenarios you relate do sound like they would be fun. However, cute remarks like "you can't handle the glory" don't give me an idea of what I should keep playing for. "You're not smart enough" doesnt tell me what the games about. However some of the responses do. From the responses it seems the game is basically a social outlet (i.e. lets get together on EVE tonight for a latte) with a "Sandbox" as its medium. Much like facebook has walls to post on. However EVE's "sandbox" is not a sandbox like Fallout 3's RPG. Its a sandbox where you have to make your own RPG and the "game" content for doing this is farming money to buy a ships or pvp battles. So I do "get" that, which is more than I had gotten from playing the game. I think if more people had experienced what you talk about there would be less haters.
Don't forget to give people a timeframe of how long this would take or how many jumps it takes to get to said place.
This is impossible. The "timeframe" of which you speak is radically different for every player. I've met players who have have achieved in 3 months whats taken me 3 years. I've met players who have acheived much less.
It's not impossible at all. You know mathematically (from all the eve'rs spreadsheeting) how long it will take in real time to train up the skills. You also know the fastest time you can jump from one point to another even with custom jump points. Say it takes 2 minutes to jump from one point to another(roughly) counting the approach to the gates, if you have to make 20 jumps that's 40 minutes right there before you even get to the place where all the fun is supposed to happen. I use 20 because that was my maximum I allowed myself before I got really irritated. I had people tell me that's nothing and alot of people regularly travel more in a day. So that means there are people that W A S T E more than 40 minutes a day just jumping... and that doesn't count any of the other timesinks or crap you have to deal with to get anything done. (shuttling back to another base lol )
The skill system must be set up the way it is because if it wasn't noone would be able to get enough xp to gain skills. There isn't enough content to provide a steady xp flow from enemies and missions when you include all of this down time.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Don't forget to give people a timeframe of how long this would take or how many jumps it takes to get to said place.
This is impossible. The "timeframe" of which you speak is radically different for every player. I've met players who have have achieved in 3 months whats taken me 3 years. I've met players who have acheived much less.
It's not impossible at all. You know mathematically (from all the eve'rs spreadsheeting) how long it will take in real time to train up the skills. You also know the fastest time you can jump from one point to another even with custom jump points. Say it takes 2 minutes to jump from one point to another(roughly) counting the approach to the gates, if you have to make 20 jumps that's 40 minutes right there before you even get to the place where all the fun is supposed to happen. I use 20 because that was my maximum I allowed myself before I got really irritated. I had people tell me that's nothing and alot of people regularly travel more in a day. So that means there are people that W A S T E more than 40 minutes a day just jumping... and that doesn't count any of the other timesinks or crap you have to deal with to get anything done. (shuttling back to another base lol )
The skill system must be set up the way it is because if it wasn't noone would be able to get enough xp to gain skills. There isn't enough content to provide a steady xp flow from enemies and missions when you include all of this down time.
I don't think you "get" eve (don't mean that in an insulting way). "Content" is not created by CCP.
CCP does the bare minimum (missions/anomalies/wormhole space (actually this is actual good content)) to create content for the players. The above post is correct, you are simply given tools.
Eve is a sandbox game (in the true sense, not like FE but like DF), which means the content comes from the players.
For example, there was an alliance that took some mediocre 0.0 space, but declared it free to visit for any player who could get there. They enforced the space and tried to create a safe haven in 0.0 (every year or so someone tries this, and the outcome is always amusing). Unfortunately, the former leader split from the alliance and took 1/2 of the players with him. Now, the former leader leads a vendetta on the system and raids it constantly while trying to recruit for his OWN free federation. This is entertaining for everyone involved, and is far better than any content CCP could create.
Examples like the above one are what you should be looking to get involved in. Unfortunately, the vat majority of new players mission a bit, burn out, and quit.
Don't forget to give people a timeframe of how long this would take or how many jumps it takes to get to said place.
This is impossible. The "timeframe" of which you speak is radically different for every player. I've met players who have have achieved in 3 months whats taken me 3 years. I've met players who have acheived much less.
It's not impossible at all. You know mathematically (from all the eve'rs spreadsheeting) how long it will take in real time to train up the skills. You also know the fastest time you can jump from one point to another even with custom jump points. Say it takes 2 minutes to jump from one point to another(roughly) counting the approach to the gates, if you have to make 20 jumps that's 40 minutes right there before you even get to the place where all the fun is supposed to happen. I use 20 because that was my maximum I allowed myself before I got really irritated. I had people tell me that's nothing and alot of people regularly travel more in a day. So that means there are people that W A S T E more than 40 minutes a day just jumping... and that doesn't count any of the other timesinks or crap you have to deal with to get anything done. (shuttling back to another base lol )
The skill system must be set up the way it is because if it wasn't noone would be able to get enough xp to gain skills. There isn't enough content to provide a steady xp flow from enemies and missions when you include all of this down time.
I don't think you "get" eve (don't mean that in an insulting way). "Content" is not created by CCP.
CCP does the bare minimum (missions/anomalies/wormhole space (actually this is actual good content)) to create content for the players. The above post is correct, you are simply given tools.
Eve is a sandbox game (in the true sense, not like FE but like DF), which means the content comes from the players.
For example, there was an alliance that took some mediocre 0.0 space, but declared it free to visit for any player who could get there. They enforced the space and tried to create a safe haven in 0.0 (every year or so someone tries this, and the outcome is always amusing). Unfortunately, the former leader split from the alliance and took 1/2 of the players with him. Now, the former leader leads a vendetta on the system and raids it constantly while trying to recruit for his OWN free federation. This is entertaining for everyone involved, and is far better than any content CCP could create.
Examples like the above one are what you should be looking to get involved in. Unfortunately, the vat majority of new players mission a bit, burn out, and quit.
I'm not insulted at all 8 ) I understand Eve clearly though. I also understand exactly the roleplay potential a sandbox has and agree that if given enough time and thought(that's all there is in eve) you can have a good time. You can do the same thing with sticks outside if your imagination is good. Another thing to mention is that alot of players pay for and play 2 characters at once to make things easier to get done. That's basically doubling the cost of the game.
My main point is it is not a fun game. Sure there are fun things to do at times and interesting things to read and find, and friends to meet and hang with and communities to build. But at the individual level considering the time investment and monetary real life cost it takes to find these good points the bottom line remains the same. If you get rid of the grey area talk and the if and buts, the game is not fun. If you have to do 75%crappy stuff to get to the 25%good stuff you are just wasting time. People that have wasted this vast amount of time are so afraid to admit to themselves the mistake that they put blinders on to the truth even when they admit the timesinks and boredom of the thing. If you cherry pick the 25% and post logs of it, it may seem like there is some sense to the believers. But where are the logs of the other 75% of the game? IE jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. FUN.................jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...FUN
maybe the point is more clear when you see a simulation of the real log.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I like it because its a game that dont hold your hands from beginning to end. I like the cruelty of Eve, the politic is beyound anything I have encountered in any game, the backstabbing and scams.
The military offensives are huge logistical operations, demanding countless of hours in preperations (fuel, ammunations, ships, orbital defensive structures). Its just not to pull out a ship and go and conquer space.
anyway there are many such small details that most people dont notice when trying this game, maybe their not even of interest to them. but its some of those part that makes me love the game.
I love it the OP asks why people enjoy eve and the few people that do answer are flamed and told their smoking crack.
The rest of the thread is filled with people that hate the game and are off topic by even posting since the OP asked for a specific type of player.
Awesome.
Rockgod...this thread is our sandbox and apparently you don't "get it". It's not that the responses are "on topic" or not, but simply how you choose to create your own "FUN" here. Sheesh, why all the hate Rockgod for something you can't possibly understand.
The odd thing about these periodic threads is that most of the anti-EVE posters generally imply that there is something missing in EVE that exists in every other MMO.
EVE is just a timesink, but I seem to remember running around a small area killing slugs in LOTRO for the deed, or doing circles of an area looking to kill a given mob for a certain rare drop.
EVE takes forever to find the "fun", but I spent plenty of time waiting around keeps in WAR for the enemy just to have a fight.
EVE is just a chat engine, why would you want to play with all that human drama in your hobby - but any guild is completely drama-free right? Much less a high-end raiding guild.
There's no fun PvE in EVE, but "Fun PvE" in most other current MMOs consists of running dozens of badly written quests as quickly as possible, or running through an unchanging, pre-scripted encounter trying to find the one or two developer designed ways to win.
Anyway ...
EVE demands a few things of the people that play it:
you usually need to play with a group of like-minded people (at least at first). You can solo, but the activities that are suitable for soloists are repetative and as such you need to have a long-range goal in view to make them a means to an end. Which leads to...
you must be able to set goals for yourself. Doesn't matter what the goal is, you have to be able to set a goal and take pride in accomplishing it. If you arrive in EVE and functionally stand there waiting for the game to provide "the fun" (aka goals) it probably won't be long before you quit.
you need to devote time to it. This is why I don't play anymore, I simply don't have the time EVE requires. Not so much in the travelling, but the things I enjoyed in EVE take longer to accomplish than a couple of hours every couple of days.
If you want to give EVE a good, honest try - join EVE University (if they're still going that is, or some other decent newbie-friendly corp) and dedicate yourself to learning the ropes. Then while you're in that corp, actively look for your next corporation / alliance based on what you enjoy. Factional warfare is usually a good place to start, or the Red vs. Blue corp, if you're interested in learning to PvP effectively - but bear in mind they're a training field for corp / alliance warfare, so you don't really get to see the whole picture.
At some point though, you need to set yourself a goal and start working towards it. You'll burn out every time if your goal is simply to fly X ship class, or get Y amount of ISK. Your goal has to be something in the meta-game, not something explicitly in the game mechanics.
It's basically like your last year of high-school. Everyone is asking you what you want to be when you grow up. You've got to decide that for yourself. Once you do, you find EVE opens up and becomes more than simply a collection of game systems. Read a couple of the posts above for ideas (I always wanted to do the drug smuggling thing - never got around to it though).
Good luck if you're interested in giving EVE an honest try. If you do and it's still not fun, at least you know for sure you don't like that style of game.
I love it the OP asks why people enjoy eve and the few people that do answer are flamed and told their smoking crack.
The rest of the thread is filled with people that hate the game and are off topic by even posting since the OP asked for a specific type of player.
Awesome.
People hate what they can't understand.
mostly spreadsheets.... -shudders- Eve is a niche game for a reason, and what it does, it does very well..... but you gotta admitt the old tutorial must have put a few thousand+ people off the game while numbers and information overload sucked whatever was left of their brain out the vaccum.
i liked it, i just didn't, and still don't, have enough time on my hands to play such a game...
"nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week
I love it the OP asks why people enjoy eve and the few people that do answer are flamed and told their smoking crack.
The rest of the thread is filled with people that hate the game and are off topic by even posting since the OP asked for a specific type of player.
Awesome.
People hate what they can't understand.
mostly spreadsheets.... -shudders- Eve is a niche game for a reason, and what it does, it does very well..... but you gotta admitt the old tutorial must have put a few thousand+ people off the game while numbers and information overload sucked whatever was left of their brain out the vaccum.
i liked it, i just didn't, and still don't, have enough time on my hands to play such a game...
What's the deal with the spread sheet comment? I've honestly never understood it.
Is it the the market research screen that makes you guys say that or the use of Evemon?
I remember doing research in other games and never seen anyone refer to those games as spreadsheets.
The odd thing about these periodic threads is that most of the anti-EVE posters generally imply that there is something missing in EVE that exists in every other MMO.
EVE is just a timesink, but I seem to remember running around a small area killing slugs in LOTRO for the deed, or doing circles of an area looking to kill a given mob for a certain rare drop.
EVE takes forever to find the "fun", but I spent plenty of time waiting around keeps in WAR for the enemy just to have a fight.
EVE is just a chat engine, why would you want to play with all that human drama in your hobby - but any guild is completely drama-free right? Much less a high-end raiding guild.
There's no fun PvE in EVE, but "Fun PvE" in most other current MMOs consists of running dozens of badly written quests as quickly as possible, or running through an unchanging, pre-scripted encounter trying to find the one or two developer designed ways to win.
Anyway ...
EVE demands a few things of the people that play it:
you usually need to play with a group of like-minded people (at least at first). You can solo, but the activities that are suitable for soloists are repetative and as such you need to have a long-range goal in view to make them a means to an end. Which leads to...
you must be able to set goals for yourself. Doesn't matter what the goal is, you have to be able to set a goal and take pride in accomplishing it. If you arrive in EVE and functionally stand there waiting for the game to provide "the fun" (aka goals) it probably won't be long before you quit.
you need to devote time to it. This is why I don't play anymore, I simply don't have the time EVE requires. Not so much in the travelling, but the things I enjoyed in EVE take longer to accomplish than a couple of hours every couple of days.
If you want to give EVE a good, honest try - join EVE University (if they're still going that is, or some other decent newbie-friendly corp) and dedicate yourself to learning the ropes. Then while you're in that corp, actively look for your next corporation / alliance based on what you enjoy. Factional warfare is usually a good place to start, or the Red vs. Blue corp, if you're interested in learning to PvP effectively - but bear in mind they're a training field for corp / alliance warfare, so you don't really get to see the whole picture.
At some point though, you need to set yourself a goal and start working towards it. You'll burn out every time if your goal is simply to fly X ship class, or get Y amount of ISK. Your goal has to be something in the meta-game, not something explicitly in the game mechanics.
It's basically like your last year of high-school. Everyone is asking you what you want to be when you grow up. You've got to decide that for yourself. Once you do, you find EVE opens up and becomes more than simply a collection of game systems. Read a couple of the posts above for ideas (I always wanted to do the drug smuggling thing - never got around to it though).
Good luck if you're interested in giving EVE an honest try. If you do and it's still not fun, at least you know for sure you don't like that style of game.
Jakin...you are ruining this thread with your amazingly well thought out and properly articulated post.
The odd thing about these periodic threads is that most of the anti-EVE posters generally imply that there is something missing in EVE that exists in every other MMO.
EVE is just a timesink, but I seem to remember running around a small area killing slugs in LOTRO for the deed, or doing circles of an area looking to kill a given mob for a certain rare drop.
EVE takes forever to find the "fun", but I spent plenty of time waiting around keeps in WAR for the enemy just to have a fight.
EVE is just a chat engine, why would you want to play with all that human drama in your hobby - but any guild is completely drama-free right? Much less a high-end raiding guild.
There's no fun PvE in EVE, but "Fun PvE" in most other current MMOs consists of running dozens of badly written quests as quickly as possible, or running through an unchanging, pre-scripted encounter trying to find the one or two developer designed ways to win.
Anyway ...
EVE demands a few things of the people that play it:
you usually need to play with a group of like-minded people (at least at first). You can solo, but the activities that are suitable for soloists are repetative and as such you need to have a long-range goal in view to make them a means to an end. Which leads to...
you must be able to set goals for yourself. Doesn't matter what the goal is, you have to be able to set a goal and take pride in accomplishing it. If you arrive in EVE and functionally stand there waiting for the game to provide "the fun" (aka goals) it probably won't be long before you quit.
you need to devote time to it. This is why I don't play anymore, I simply don't have the time EVE requires. Not so much in the travelling, but the things I enjoyed in EVE take longer to accomplish than a couple of hours every couple of days.
If you want to give EVE a good, honest try - join EVE University (if they're still going that is, or some other decent newbie-friendly corp) and dedicate yourself to learning the ropes. Then while you're in that corp, actively look for your next corporation / alliance based on what you enjoy. Factional warfare is usually a good place to start, or the Red vs. Blue corp, if you're interested in learning to PvP effectively - but bear in mind they're a training field for corp / alliance warfare, so you don't really get to see the whole picture.
At some point though, you need to set yourself a goal and start working towards it. You'll burn out every time if your goal is simply to fly X ship class, or get Y amount of ISK. Your goal has to be something in the meta-game, not something explicitly in the game mechanics.
It's basically like your last year of high-school. Everyone is asking you what you want to be when you grow up. You've got to decide that for yourself. Once you do, you find EVE opens up and becomes more than simply a collection of game systems. Read a couple of the posts above for ideas (I always wanted to do the drug smuggling thing - never got around to it though).
Good luck if you're interested in giving EVE an honest try. If you do and it's still not fun, at least you know for sure you don't like that style of game.
Excellent Post. All comments aside, I do thank all the EVEr's for their insight. It's quite possible EVE is just not the game for me due to time needed and/or commitment level required. I do think it looks amazing and the things some of the posters have alluded to being able to do seem very cool.
I can't claim to have the be-all end-all scoop on what makes EVE fun but I can try to point out of just a few of the reasons why it has kept me interested since 2004.
EVE is the only game where I have actually felt like I, me, the guy behind the keyboard matters. It is the only sandbox type game where the individual initiative of the player makes such a huge difference. When I first started playing, 5000 people on the server was a "busy day." Being one of those 5000 and finding my way through this vast, dark and mystifying game world felt unique and exciting. I was a complete noob and I made LOTS of stupid mistakes. That being said there was not a lot of documentation back then...or if there was I was to lazy to find it. Comparing this to many of the other games I've played, they always seemed like a rush to find the best/most l33t guide on how to get to max level. There was no "enjoy the game play" or "explore for exploration's sake" feeling in any of them. For example, pretty much as soon as it came out, guides for the various classes, areas, and level progression sprung up like weeds for Warhammer Online. Granted, that sentence could be used for just about any level based game out there.
That's where the second thing I love about EVE comes in. Skill training. No matter how much you "grind" your skills will not budge an inch. It's all based on time. So both casual and hard core gamers get the same benefits and the same drawbacks. There is no benefit to grinding other than isk (money) accumulation. So while the hardcore gamers may have a bit more money than you, they will not have an appreciably better character skills wise. Touching on that statement though there are ways to make your character "better" than the next guy. Good planning of your stats and training of certain skills will definately give you the edge over the clueless mission running guy. I like EVE because it rewards intelligent play, it rewards foresight, planning and risk taking.
Speaking of risk, that's probably what I love about EVE the most. Eve has risks. When you take them you stand to benefit greatly or lose a big chunk of the work you've put in. Right now there is a HUGE war going on in the "north" of the galaxy in eve. Billions if not Trillions of isk are on the line. In the end, no matter what, there are going to be quite a few players, corporations and Alliances that lose and lose big. Conversely, a guy on another forum I visit regularly noticed something in the last expansion and the changes that CCP was proposing. He made adjustments to his trade policies and even went so far as to put out the message to the general player base. Many believed him, many more did not. Ultimately he risked a lot of his isk and ended up raking in the cash as the expansion proved him, at least partially, right. Whether it was speculation driven by his notice or an actual scarcity and new "bottleneck" in production, he made bank.
Compare that to the "risk" in games like WoW or WAR. You risk your avatar in PVP, you bunny hop around, spam some hot keys, die and respawn. Maybe you have a repair bill or what not but in general there is no major effect to your play. In EVE if my ship goes boom and I don't have another or the money to buy and fit a new ship I'm pretty much back to things I don't enjoy (missions and mining) until I can afford a new ship.
Speaking of dying. Eve is the only game where I have actually gotten the shakes during PVP and HORRIBLY so afterwards. The first few fights I had in EVE I was so overwhelmed and flustered I ended up with a huge case of the shakes and a ship that went boom . It is because of the risk, because of the knowledge that you can lose something you worked hard for that I think EVE's pvp is one of it's huge selling points. Going back to my first point, the fact that I felt EVE lets the players feel like they are important; I know I matter especially in pvp fights. The alliance I am part of is small. We typically field 5-25 man fleets. Involved in these fleets are a host of players from around the world all with mostly the same goal. Make the other guy go boom while we don't. There is a metric butt-ton of things that go into making EVE PVP what it is. Everything from the quality of your Fleet Commander (if you have one) to the number and attentiveness of your scouts, the skills of your various fleet members, the comms discipline on your communications program of choice and most importantly the player skill and discipline of each member. They all make up the hectic joygasm that is PVP in eve.
These are just a few of the things that I love about eve. Are there things that annoy me, tick me off, make me wonder what the hell CCP was thinking? Oh yes, there are many. But at the same time to, I've played a load of other MMOs and this is the only one that keeps me coming back day after day to make other peoples internet spaceships go boom .
I played EVE for only a few months. I liked some things about it, and other things, not so much, BUT...I don't think I played it long enough to give you a valuable answer.
The only thing I can say about it is this...WHICH by the way is the same thing I would probably say about ANY space game I have played with the exception of KotOR, which was a single player RPG....
I simply do not dig....outerspace games. Period.
I don't mean this to be sexist, at all...but I honestly think that men and boys probably have more of a tendency to enjoy outerspace stuff. Fewer women dream of being astronauts, I think....etc. I'm just guessing here, but the consensus amongst myself and my other 30-50 something year old female gamer friends is precisely what I just said. We're just not that into space games. So for me to try it and even last long enough to get my HULK....was miraculous, I think.
Admittedly...I enjoyed mining asteroid belts with my morning coffee. I wasn't that fond of "missions" and salvaging, and I'm only into PvP with my imaginary feet firmly planted on the ground, but hey....that's just me. Maybe I'm just an old fuddy duddy. No biggie.
EvE is so different than any other mmorpg out there right now it can be difficult to get into. The first time I tried it I didn't like it either. Getting into a good corp is vital to enjoying the game. Sure you can solo but you would be missing out on the most fun parts of the game. When you ask somebody who plays your typical fantasy level based game about their character they recite their stats, class, skills and gear, in EvE you get a story about their adventures.
Let me give you a few examples of things I've done in Eve that just don't happen in other games...
I started in a drug manufacturing corp trying to smuggle illegal cargo into high security systems. The concord didn't appreciate that too much.
Spent a lot of time in Gallente militia living in Black Rise. This is where I learned to PvP. Since we were small I had to learn guerilla tactics. For a small corp we made a pretty good name for ourselves.
After that I put on my eye patch and spent a few months as a pirate living outside trade hubs ransoming haulers, mission runners and pretty much anyone else who passed. At the same time fighting other pirate corps trying to lock down the system.
Then joined a null sec alliance of about 1,400 pilots. Up until that time I was used to small gangs of 2-6 people, these guys rolled in fleets of 50-150 complete with logistics and cap support.
Spent some time in a merc corp taking down POS's, performing assassinations, denying resources to corps and doing random war decs.
I just don't get this from other games. I'm done grinding levels and gear, been there, done that. Arenas and battlegrounds are boring and predictable. In Eve the fights are not fair, not predictable and losing is painful. A lot of players view these as negatives but I wouldn't have it any other way.
From my experience I can tell you to have fun in Eve you need to be patient, strategic and be a bit of a gambler.
I'm sorry Dave, but I played EVE and that stuff wasn't in there. How large a hit of crack do I have to take before I login?
It wasn't there? Were you looking with your eyes open?
If it's not a quest from some NPC with a long white beard and slightly confused Olde Tyme Grammare then it's not real gameplay. Try and understand.
Another petpeeve is that only one of your characters on the same account can train a skill. So i cant train one alt into a miner and the other in an explorer. Only one at a time. So, twice as slow
Uh what? No, it's one times as slow. What game advances two characters on the same account at once?
I'm in the extreme hate it crowd. People that say things about people being kids that hate it obviously are said kids and have way to much time on their hands and mom and dads money to throw out the window. Adults can tell when something is a complete waste of effort and back out before it costs them more than they want to give. Time investment and down time doing things that suck to get to the parts that don't suck are totally out of proportion in Eve. I played up untill the battleship stages and the whole time wondered when the real fun was to begin. Basically you'll be doing pretty much the same thing after 2 months of playtime that you do in your first week. Shooting rocks and lots and lots of boring uneventful warping from spot to spot on autopilot. Killing enemies degenerates into the same ole' tactics that work and that's it. The main thing that changes is the size of the ships. Screensaver is a dead on description. More power to people that like that sort of thing but it's annoying to see people posting how great and complicated it is when really it's a bloated overhyped multiplayer spreadsheet chat program.
Sorry but the words in red just go to show that you didn't understand.
As such I will not dismiss your opinion but I will take it into account while I attribute value to your posts.
One of the first things you learn is to never autopilot or fly what you can't afford to lose. The fact that apparently you could get around on autopilot makes it probable you never left highsec because that kind of behavior would certainly have gotten you killed in 0.0. Always jump yourself and to within 0 meters, it will cut your traveltime in half, at least.
As for answering the OP.
What grabs me is
The offline skill training,
The universe (the backstory becomes better and better the more I read of it)
The truly makeable background of your character
The graphics
The challenge (losing stuff hurts, but you learn from it)
I agree with the whole you either love it or hate it paradigm but it truly does help if you have friends to lead you through your first weeks. The game has such a steep learning curve and you wouldn't know where to start. The tutorial was a big help but the fact that I had RL friends online too. So if you give it another chance ask arround, probably someone here is willing to start an alt and play with you through your first week if you don't already know people in game.
(bloody, why can't I get this outside the box....)
When I first started out in Eve I played through 3 trials before I signed up. The first few months were really boring and bland to be honest. I slowly got into bigger and bigger ships, and learned more about the mechanics of the game with each ship death.
I mined, ratted and did some pvp like the typical noob. I set myself goals to keep me motivated in the game, while I skilled up and learned more about the game.
The thing that got me hooked though was when I started getting involved in 0.0 warfare and the whole story behind all the alliances and how they controlled that space. This story was player driven, and is constantly changing.
If you really want to get into Eve, then get into a 0.0 corp that is nice and active in wars. Start getting involved in your corp, and you will have a more vested interest in how your corp/alliance does in those wars. This is difficult to explain, but it is a type of game playing that is not really comparable to WoW or other theme park MMO's.
I played the free trial for 2 weeks. I found the font size far too small and the general UI infuriating, having to close and open windows type boxes all the time. Maybe i was doing something wrong.
I played EVE for only a few months. I liked some things about it, and other things, not so much, BUT...I don't think I played it long enough to give you a valuable answer.
The only thing I can say about it is this...WHICH by the way is the same thing I would probably say about ANY space game I have played with the exception of KotOR, which was a single player RPG....
I simply do not dig....outerspace games. Period.
I don't mean this to be sexist, at all...but I honestly think that men and boys probably have more of a tendency to enjoy outerspace stuff. Fewer women dream of being astronauts, I think....etc. I'm just guessing here, but the consensus amongst myself and my other 30-50 something year old female gamer friends is precisely what I just said. We're just not that into space games. So for me to try it and even last long enough to get my HULK....was miraculous, I think.
Admittedly...I enjoyed mining asteroid belts with my morning coffee. I wasn't that fond of "missions" and salvaging, and I'm only into PvP with my imaginary feet firmly planted on the ground, but hey....that's just me. Maybe I'm just an old fuddy duddy. No biggie.
I'll certainly agree with this. I've brought up Eve a few times during social gatherings with fellow mmo gamers and Eve is certainly not appealing to most women.
Spaceships and Lasers are as Dude centric as you could get next to maybe a Tank or Mech mmo.
Don't forget to give people a timeframe of how long this would take or how many jumps it takes to get to said place.
This is impossible. The "timeframe" of which you speak is radically different for every player. I've met players who have have achieved in 3 months whats taken me 3 years. I've met players who have acheived much less.
It's not impossible at all. You know mathematically (from all the eve'rs spreadsheeting) how long it will take in real time to train up the skills. You also know the fastest time you can jump from one point to another even with custom jump points. Say it takes 2 minutes to jump from one point to another(roughly) counting the approach to the gates, if you have to make 20 jumps that's 40 minutes right there before you even get to the place where all the fun is supposed to happen. I use 20 because that was my maximum I allowed myself before I got really irritated. I had people tell me that's nothing and alot of people regularly travel more in a day. So that means there are people that W A S T E more than 40 minutes a day just jumping... and that doesn't count any of the other timesinks or crap you have to deal with to get anything done. (shuttling back to another base lol )
The skill system must be set up the way it is because if it wasn't noone would be able to get enough xp to gain skills. There isn't enough content to provide a steady xp flow from enemies and missions when you include all of this down time.
I know what you are saying, and yes to an extent you can calculate how long something _should_ take. But you simply cant put a timeframe on how long it will take a new player to learn how to do things quickly.
Your calculations also make a lot of assumptions, many of the activities you describe can be speeded up massivly... if you know how. Since obviously you dont know these secrets then no one, not even you can put a "timeframe" on how long it will take you to discover... you may never discover it.
thats all I'm saying...
You may be able to calculate how long it takes to jump 30 systems, but why are you jumping 30 systems?.. you think you MUST to do these 30 jumps in order to acheive a certain something! But if someone to whipser a few tricks of the trade in your ears then you can avoid those 30 jumps alltogether!
Your thoughts on this are not uncommon, in fact most people draw the same conclusions you do which is why Eve has a lot of 'haters'... its just frustration at "not being in the know"
as I said, I've been playing on and off since 2005... and boy I know people who things which seem like miracles to me... but its just because their understanding is far deeper than mine..... therofre I know that when I play Eve I'm on a journey of discovery that in my mind knows no limits... Humans are natural explorers, naturally inquisitive, and THAT is the thing which makes Eve fun.
Comments
I not sure why you would delete this? I don't think I have ever read, why some people don't get this game, said any better
This is how I see it, yes it is selfless promotion to some degree but it is also how I see the game.
In short, It provides the most complete and in depth game for those that enjoy open FFA game play. No other game in the industry has the same level of depth or complexity.
BTW if you watch closely, you can see Batolemaeus almost get podded at the very end : 0
Just one of the many surprises that can occur on a single server.
It wasn't there? Were you looking with your eyes open?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
It took me a few times before I really "got" EVE. It is the most difficult game to appreciate, but once you do, there is no substitute. All at once, I both hate and love playing EVE. There is no other game that requires as much from it's players, and it will not hesitate to bite you if you mistreat it. It is a simple concept really, you will get out of EVE what you put into it.
All you get in the beginning IS tools. Part of your description is what I was attempting to get at from the beginning. If all I get at the beginning is boredom and monotony, is there something in the end that makes it worthwhile (I dont care if its PvE or PvP). It is easy to decry because its not easy to see the outcome. The scenarios you relate do sound like they would be fun. However, cute remarks like "you can't handle the glory" don't give me an idea of what I should keep playing for. "You're not smart enough" doesnt tell me what the games about. However some of the responses do. From the responses it seems the game is basically a social outlet (i.e. lets get together on EVE tonight for a latte) with a "Sandbox" as its medium. Much like facebook has walls to post on. However EVE's "sandbox" is not a sandbox like Fallout 3's RPG. Its a sandbox where you have to make your own RPG and the "game" content for doing this is farming money to buy a ships or pvp battles. So I do "get" that, which is more than I had gotten from playing the game. I think if more people had experienced what you talk about there would be less haters.
It's not impossible at all. You know mathematically (from all the eve'rs spreadsheeting) how long it will take in real time to train up the skills. You also know the fastest time you can jump from one point to another even with custom jump points. Say it takes 2 minutes to jump from one point to another(roughly) counting the approach to the gates, if you have to make 20 jumps that's 40 minutes right there before you even get to the place where all the fun is supposed to happen. I use 20 because that was my maximum I allowed myself before I got really irritated. I had people tell me that's nothing and alot of people regularly travel more in a day. So that means there are people that W A S T E more than 40 minutes a day just jumping... and that doesn't count any of the other timesinks or crap you have to deal with to get anything done. (shuttling back to another base lol )
The skill system must be set up the way it is because if it wasn't noone would be able to get enough xp to gain skills. There isn't enough content to provide a steady xp flow from enemies and missions when you include all of this down time.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I don't think you "get" eve (don't mean that in an insulting way). "Content" is not created by CCP.
CCP does the bare minimum (missions/anomalies/wormhole space (actually this is actual good content)) to create content for the players. The above post is correct, you are simply given tools.
Eve is a sandbox game (in the true sense, not like FE but like DF), which means the content comes from the players.
For example, there was an alliance that took some mediocre 0.0 space, but declared it free to visit for any player who could get there. They enforced the space and tried to create a safe haven in 0.0 (every year or so someone tries this, and the outcome is always amusing). Unfortunately, the former leader split from the alliance and took 1/2 of the players with him. Now, the former leader leads a vendetta on the system and raids it constantly while trying to recruit for his OWN free federation. This is entertaining for everyone involved, and is far better than any content CCP could create.
Examples like the above one are what you should be looking to get involved in. Unfortunately, the vat majority of new players mission a bit, burn out, and quit.
I'm not insulted at all 8 ) I understand Eve clearly though. I also understand exactly the roleplay potential a sandbox has and agree that if given enough time and thought(that's all there is in eve) you can have a good time. You can do the same thing with sticks outside if your imagination is good. Another thing to mention is that alot of players pay for and play 2 characters at once to make things easier to get done. That's basically doubling the cost of the game.
My main point is it is not a fun game. Sure there are fun things to do at times and interesting things to read and find, and friends to meet and hang with and communities to build. But at the individual level considering the time investment and monetary real life cost it takes to find these good points the bottom line remains the same. If you get rid of the grey area talk and the if and buts, the game is not fun. If you have to do 75%crappy stuff to get to the 25%good stuff you are just wasting time. People that have wasted this vast amount of time are so afraid to admit to themselves the mistake that they put blinders on to the truth even when they admit the timesinks and boredom of the thing. If you cherry pick the 25% and post logs of it, it may seem like there is some sense to the believers. But where are the logs of the other 75% of the game? IE jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. FUN.................jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...jump..fly... jump... fly.. jump...wait.. wait...FUN
maybe the point is more clear when you see a simulation of the real log.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I love it the OP asks why people enjoy eve and the few people that do answer are flamed and told their smoking crack.
The rest of the thread is filled with people that hate the game and are off topic by even posting since the OP asked for a specific type of player.
Awesome.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I like it because its a game that dont hold your hands from beginning to end. I like the cruelty of Eve, the politic is beyound anything I have encountered in any game, the backstabbing and scams.
The military offensives are huge logistical operations, demanding countless of hours in preperations (fuel, ammunations, ships, orbital defensive structures). Its just not to pull out a ship and go and conquer space.
anyway there are many such small details that most people dont notice when trying this game, maybe their not even of interest to them. but its some of those part that makes me love the game.
Rockgod...this thread is our sandbox and apparently you don't "get it". It's not that the responses are "on topic" or not, but simply how you choose to create your own "FUN" here. Sheesh, why all the hate Rockgod for something you can't possibly understand.
People hate what they can't understand.
"EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran
The odd thing about these periodic threads is that most of the anti-EVE posters generally imply that there is something missing in EVE that exists in every other MMO.
EVE is just a timesink, but I seem to remember running around a small area killing slugs in LOTRO for the deed, or doing circles of an area looking to kill a given mob for a certain rare drop.
EVE takes forever to find the "fun", but I spent plenty of time waiting around keeps in WAR for the enemy just to have a fight.
EVE is just a chat engine, why would you want to play with all that human drama in your hobby - but any guild is completely drama-free right? Much less a high-end raiding guild.
There's no fun PvE in EVE, but "Fun PvE" in most other current MMOs consists of running dozens of badly written quests as quickly as possible, or running through an unchanging, pre-scripted encounter trying to find the one or two developer designed ways to win.
Anyway ...
EVE demands a few things of the people that play it:
you usually need to play with a group of like-minded people (at least at first). You can solo, but the activities that are suitable for soloists are repetative and as such you need to have a long-range goal in view to make them a means to an end. Which leads to...
you must be able to set goals for yourself. Doesn't matter what the goal is, you have to be able to set a goal and take pride in accomplishing it. If you arrive in EVE and functionally stand there waiting for the game to provide "the fun" (aka goals) it probably won't be long before you quit.
you need to devote time to it. This is why I don't play anymore, I simply don't have the time EVE requires. Not so much in the travelling, but the things I enjoyed in EVE take longer to accomplish than a couple of hours every couple of days.
If you want to give EVE a good, honest try - join EVE University (if they're still going that is, or some other decent newbie-friendly corp) and dedicate yourself to learning the ropes. Then while you're in that corp, actively look for your next corporation / alliance based on what you enjoy. Factional warfare is usually a good place to start, or the Red vs. Blue corp, if you're interested in learning to PvP effectively - but bear in mind they're a training field for corp / alliance warfare, so you don't really get to see the whole picture.
At some point though, you need to set yourself a goal and start working towards it. You'll burn out every time if your goal is simply to fly X ship class, or get Y amount of ISK. Your goal has to be something in the meta-game, not something explicitly in the game mechanics.
It's basically like your last year of high-school. Everyone is asking you what you want to be when you grow up. You've got to decide that for yourself. Once you do, you find EVE opens up and becomes more than simply a collection of game systems. Read a couple of the posts above for ideas (I always wanted to do the drug smuggling thing - never got around to it though).
Good luck if you're interested in giving EVE an honest try. If you do and it's still not fun, at least you know for sure you don't like that style of game.
mostly spreadsheets.... -shudders- Eve is a niche game for a reason, and what it does, it does very well..... but you gotta admitt the old tutorial must have put a few thousand+ people off the game while numbers and information overload sucked whatever was left of their brain out the vaccum.
i liked it, i just didn't, and still don't, have enough time on my hands to play such a game...
"nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week
What's the deal with the spread sheet comment? I've honestly never understood it.
Is it the the market research screen that makes you guys say that or the use of Evemon?
I remember doing research in other games and never seen anyone refer to those games as spreadsheets.
Maybe its the UI or whatever? I don't get it.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Jakin...you are ruining this thread with your amazingly well thought out and properly articulated post.
Excellent Post. All comments aside, I do thank all the EVEr's for their insight. It's quite possible EVE is just not the game for me due to time needed and/or commitment level required. I do think it looks amazing and the things some of the posters have alluded to being able to do seem very cool.
I can't claim to have the be-all end-all scoop on what makes EVE fun but I can try to point out of just a few of the reasons why it has kept me interested since 2004.
EVE is the only game where I have actually felt like I, me, the guy behind the keyboard matters. It is the only sandbox type game where the individual initiative of the player makes such a huge difference. When I first started playing, 5000 people on the server was a "busy day." Being one of those 5000 and finding my way through this vast, dark and mystifying game world felt unique and exciting. I was a complete noob and I made LOTS of stupid mistakes. That being said there was not a lot of documentation back then...or if there was I was to lazy to find it. Comparing this to many of the other games I've played, they always seemed like a rush to find the best/most l33t guide on how to get to max level. There was no "enjoy the game play" or "explore for exploration's sake" feeling in any of them. For example, pretty much as soon as it came out, guides for the various classes, areas, and level progression sprung up like weeds for Warhammer Online. Granted, that sentence could be used for just about any level based game out there.
That's where the second thing I love about EVE comes in. Skill training. No matter how much you "grind" your skills will not budge an inch. It's all based on time. So both casual and hard core gamers get the same benefits and the same drawbacks. There is no benefit to grinding other than isk (money) accumulation. So while the hardcore gamers may have a bit more money than you, they will not have an appreciably better character skills wise. Touching on that statement though there are ways to make your character "better" than the next guy. Good planning of your stats and training of certain skills will definately give you the edge over the clueless mission running guy. I like EVE because it rewards intelligent play, it rewards foresight, planning and risk taking.
Speaking of risk, that's probably what I love about EVE the most. Eve has risks. When you take them you stand to benefit greatly or lose a big chunk of the work you've put in. Right now there is a HUGE war going on in the "north" of the galaxy in eve. Billions if not Trillions of isk are on the line. In the end, no matter what, there are going to be quite a few players, corporations and Alliances that lose and lose big. Conversely, a guy on another forum I visit regularly noticed something in the last expansion and the changes that CCP was proposing. He made adjustments to his trade policies and even went so far as to put out the message to the general player base. Many believed him, many more did not. Ultimately he risked a lot of his isk and ended up raking in the cash as the expansion proved him, at least partially, right. Whether it was speculation driven by his notice or an actual scarcity and new "bottleneck" in production, he made bank.
Compare that to the "risk" in games like WoW or WAR. You risk your avatar in PVP, you bunny hop around, spam some hot keys, die and respawn. Maybe you have a repair bill or what not but in general there is no major effect to your play. In EVE if my ship goes boom and I don't have another or the money to buy and fit a new ship I'm pretty much back to things I don't enjoy (missions and mining) until I can afford a new ship.
Speaking of dying. Eve is the only game where I have actually gotten the shakes during PVP and HORRIBLY so afterwards. The first few fights I had in EVE I was so overwhelmed and flustered I ended up with a huge case of the shakes and a ship that went boom
These are just a few of the things that I love about eve. Are there things that annoy me, tick me off, make me wonder what the hell CCP was thinking? Oh yes, there are many. But at the same time to, I've played a load of other MMOs and this is the only one that keeps me coming back day after day to make other peoples internet spaceships go boom
TL;DR - I liek EVE, hurr!
I played EVE for only a few months. I liked some things about it, and other things, not so much, BUT...I don't think I played it long enough to give you a valuable answer.
The only thing I can say about it is this...WHICH by the way is the same thing I would probably say about ANY space game I have played with the exception of KotOR, which was a single player RPG....
I simply do not dig....outerspace games. Period.
I don't mean this to be sexist, at all...but I honestly think that men and boys probably have more of a tendency to enjoy outerspace stuff. Fewer women dream of being astronauts, I think....etc. I'm just guessing here, but the consensus amongst myself and my other 30-50 something year old female gamer friends is precisely what I just said. We're just not that into space games. So for me to try it and even last long enough to get my HULK....was miraculous, I think.
Admittedly...I enjoyed mining asteroid belts with my morning coffee. I wasn't that fond of "missions" and salvaging, and I'm only into PvP with my imaginary feet firmly planted on the ground, but hey....that's just me. Maybe I'm just an old fuddy duddy. No biggie.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
If it's not a quest from some NPC with a long white beard and slightly confused Olde Tyme Grammare then it's not real gameplay. Try and understand.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Uh what? No, it's one times as slow. What game advances two characters on the same account at once?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
When I first started out in Eve I played through 3 trials before I signed up. The first few months were really boring and bland to be honest. I slowly got into bigger and bigger ships, and learned more about the mechanics of the game with each ship death.
I mined, ratted and did some pvp like the typical noob. I set myself goals to keep me motivated in the game, while I skilled up and learned more about the game.
The thing that got me hooked though was when I started getting involved in 0.0 warfare and the whole story behind all the alliances and how they controlled that space. This story was player driven, and is constantly changing.
This map sums it up nicely:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png
Battle reports of battles and political changes can be found here:
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewforum.php?f=34&sid=b6eab4bb759531fccb28c593ae564a5d
If you really want to get into Eve, then get into a 0.0 corp that is nice and active in wars. Start getting involved in your corp, and you will have a more vested interest in how your corp/alliance does in those wars. This is difficult to explain, but it is a type of game playing that is not really comparable to WoW or other theme park MMO's.
I played the free trial for 2 weeks. I found the font size far too small and the general UI infuriating, having to close and open windows type boxes all the time. Maybe i was doing something wrong.
I'll certainly agree with this. I've brought up Eve a few times during social gatherings with fellow mmo gamers and Eve is certainly not appealing to most women.
Spaceships and Lasers are as Dude centric as you could get next to maybe a Tank or Mech mmo.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I know what you are saying, and yes to an extent you can calculate how long something _should_ take. But you simply cant put a timeframe on how long it will take a new player to learn how to do things quickly.
Your calculations also make a lot of assumptions, many of the activities you describe can be speeded up massivly... if you know how. Since obviously you dont know these secrets then no one, not even you can put a "timeframe" on how long it will take you to discover... you may never discover it.
thats all I'm saying...
You may be able to calculate how long it takes to jump 30 systems, but why are you jumping 30 systems?.. you think you MUST to do these 30 jumps in order to acheive a certain something! But if someone to whipser a few tricks of the trade in your ears then you can avoid those 30 jumps alltogether!
Your thoughts on this are not uncommon, in fact most people draw the same conclusions you do which is why Eve has a lot of 'haters'... its just frustration at "not being in the know"
as I said, I've been playing on and off since 2005... and boy I know people who things which seem like miracles to me... but its just because their understanding is far deeper than mine..... therofre I know that when I play Eve I'm on a journey of discovery that in my mind knows no limits... Humans are natural explorers, naturally inquisitive, and THAT is the thing which makes Eve fun.