Another petpeeve is that only one of your characters on the same account can train a skill. So i cant train one alt into a miner and the other in an explorer. Only one at a time. So, twice as slow
Uh what? No, it's one times as slow. What game advances two characters on the same account at once?
Its true.
You can only activly gain XP on a single character in any MMO. Unless you are multi boxing which requires multiple accounts.. in which case you can do this in eve too.
The big difference with eve is that the more you multibox the faster and bigger amounts of ISK you can earn.. which can be used to PAY for those other accounts.
Thats why you have players who never spend a penny on an eve subscription and can maintain 7+ accounts
edit:
Sorry I should point out that with contracts, buy and sell orders you wont even need to have all these accounts loaded at once (unlike other mmo's) I know of at least 10 people who all have 5+ accounts, but they only ever need to log into one or two at a time... the rest are 'auto money making' characters who simply need to be logged into once a week or so to adjust things.
I don't mean this to be sexist, at all...but I honestly think that men and boys probably have more of a tendency to enjoy outerspace stuff. Fewer women dream of being astronauts, I think....etc. I'm just guessing here, but the consensus amongst myself and my other 30-50 something year old female gamer friends is precisely what I just said. We're just not that into space games. So for me to try it and even last long enough to get my HULK....was miraculous, I think.
Admittedly...I enjoyed mining asteroid belts with my morning coffee. I wasn't that fond of "missions" and salvaging, and I'm only into PvP with my imaginary feet firmly planted on the ground, but hey....that's just me. Maybe I'm just an old fuddy duddy. No biggie.
I'll certainly agree with this. I've brought up Eve a few times during social gatherings with fellow mmo gamers and Eve is certainly not appealing to most women.
Spaceships and Lasers are as Dude centric as you could get next to maybe a Tank or Mech mmo.
Yup. I don't think any of my friends, and certainly not myself, would be down for any tank or mech games either, and....most of us also (one exception on this one...she plays Civ IV) aren't that nutty about RTS games. None of us play Call of Duty 4....etc.
With EVE....for most women (just my opinion)....I also don't think it helps much that your avatar is just a static image that you can't really identify with because, at least until the ambulation patch arrives (if ever), you can't see her. You're constantly holed up inside a pod in a ship....blah.
I just don't think war games, space games, mech and tank games....are really meant to cater to the female gamer much. Odd thing is....I know a lot of female gamers who DO enjoy PvP, just not in those types of games, but rather in Warhammer, Guild Wars, WoW, several of us played UO, I think Lance's girlfriend, Candy, used to play DAoC when it was new....etc. So it's not the PvP that is a put off, but more the ENVIRONMENTS and/or connection to your AVATAR (like...EVE really has none).
Shooting rocks and lots and lots of boring uneventful warping from spot to spot on autopilot. Killing enemies degenerates into the same ole' tactics that work and that's it. The main thing that changes is the size of the ships. [...]
Sorry but the words in red just go to show that you didn't understand.
As such I will not dismiss your opinion but I will take it into account while I attribute value to your posts.
[...]
Originally posted by choujiofkono
You also know the fastest time you can jump from one point to another even with custom jump points. Say it takes 2 minutes to jump from one point to another(roughly) counting the approach to the gates, if you have to make 20 jumps that's 40 minutes right there before you even get to the place where all the fun is supposed to happen.
My guess is he tried the game years ago, since warp to zero was added somewhere at the beginning of 2007.
I don't get people attachments to their avatar. I have played games since the start of video games and imagining that the tiny pixel on the screen is me isn't such a big deal, I guess i've just played so many games over the years that it doesn't bother me that I am a ship rather than some dressup doll. Hell, even the first games I was exposed to had me as a space ship (Asteroids and Space Invaders).
Seems to me this whole "im a ship and I dont like it" mentality is nothing more than a mental block for some people. I hear so often things like "oh i really like Eve but I can't get beyond the fact im not a person" I guess it's a whole lot easier to imagine yourself as the big hulking hero or the scantily clad heroine doing fantasical leaps and spins and magic attacks.
My opnion and strictly my opinion on the matter this.
The people who get Eve are people who have played every other game out there to death and back again, all those other games are tired and have been done before many times over the years. I am not speaking as a gamer of 5 or even 10 years, im talking as a gamer of 30 years now. Eve offers more than the same old loot / level grind. Eve offers a living breathing world rather than a gear farm dressup dollhouse.
Those that don't get Eve are still enjoying the games that are out there because they haven't played them all to death yet, that day will come.
I find the people that "get" EVE the best are often people who haven't played other MMOs, and thus dont have pre-conceived notions about how MMOs "should be" to overcome. I am in this group.
I don't mean this to be sexist, at all...but I honestly think that men and boys probably have more of a tendency to enjoy outerspace stuff. Fewer women dream of being astronauts, I think....etc. I'm just guessing here, but the consensus amongst myself and my other 30-50 something year old female gamer friends is precisely what I just said. We're just not that into space games. So for me to try it and even last long enough to get my HULK....was miraculous, I think.
Admittedly...I enjoyed mining asteroid belts with my morning coffee. I wasn't that fond of "missions" and salvaging, and I'm only into PvP with my imaginary feet firmly planted on the ground, but hey....that's just me. Maybe I'm just an old fuddy duddy. No biggie.
I'll certainly agree with this. I've brought up Eve a few times during social gatherings with fellow mmo gamers and Eve is certainly not appealing to most women.
Spaceships and Lasers are as Dude centric as you could get next to maybe a Tank or Mech mmo.
Yup. I don't think any of my friends, and certainly not myself, would be down for any tank or mech games either, and....most of us also (one exception on this one...she plays Civ IV) aren't that nutty about RTS games. None of us play Call of Duty 4....etc.
With EVE....for most women (just my opinion)....I also don't think it helps much that your avatar is just a static image that you can't really identify with because, at least until the ambulation patch arrives (if ever), you can't see her. You're constantly holed up inside a pod in a ship....blah.
I just don't think war games, space games, mech and tank games....are really meant to cater to the female gamer much. Odd thing is....I know a lot of female gamers who DO enjoy PvP, just not in those types of games, but rather in Warhammer, Guild Wars, WoW, several of us played UO, I think Lance's girlfriend, Candy, used to play DAoC when it was new....etc. So it's not the PvP that is a put off, but more the ENVIRONMENTS and/or connection to your AVATAR (like...EVE really has none).
Well i hope you'll fire up a trial when Incarna gets released. Apparently CCP are using some pretty fancy graphics technology for the capsuleer avatars.
Eve is like playing with legos, in a world that is legos. When you start out, you're given a whole bunch of legos, but nothing is built yet. Everything is reshapable, and those things are shaped by players.
-The economy is completely player run, all items, from the core materials to the largest capitol ships in the game.
-Pretty much everything can be distroyed (the exception being NPC corps, factions, NPC stations), meaning there's always risk involved in anything you do. Ever. Even calm, highsec mining can be not so safe.
-In most MMOs you're told what to do, or there is an assumption of what you're going to do. You quest. Or you go to X location where you know you will do Y. And you do it becasue it drops Z. You get a group together to go kill things in a given area. Those are all very predicible things that we all learned from long long ago in the days of EQ and UO. In Eve, you have to decide what you're going to do. You have to find your niche. There are some nice pointers as to what's out there (see: http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Occupations ) but there are many others--the key is... surprise.... you have to find them. And things change. Just because mining x was a big money maker yesterday doesn't mean the same will be true tomorrow.
-It evolves. We talk a lot about end game stuffs in Eve. But really, there's so much to /do/ in eve it's hard to think of it in those terms. End game stuffs is simply more advanced beginning of the game stuffs in eve. It's like standing in the middle of about fifty sets of stairs. With each new update and expansion, more stairs are added and expanded upon. Sometimes entire new sets of stairs are put in (see planatary interaction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Q8hNHJUP8 which comes out in the next expansion).
-The people. I'm not going to lie, it's hard to find a group of people in eve--the new person corps are useful, but underused. Red, Blue, Eve University, etc. But once you find a group of people, possibilities go soaring to whereever you guys want to go. If there's one thing I highly recomment before giving eve up, is to join a corperation. I'm not saying that this will garentee you liking the game, but that's where the game really begins. (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq2oxt7Nrxo )
-Alliances.... how many other games are there out there that you can actually own constilations? Systems? ((Or comparitively to other games, even massive areas of land)) How many other games allow massive battles to fight for control of those areas? I'm not saying there are none other--just that Eve does this entire system very, very well. And as far as I've played, none really get close.
-You're useful from the start. I didn't feel this way either at the beginning, but I know it to be true now--a lot of my problem, in retrospect, was waiting for so long to get in to a corp. Here's my example story of a way that new players can be useful. I have a friend in game who I invited to our corperation and got him involved. He was, at the time, less than a month old in game. I am a decently good explorer. I find things quickly, and can get to the locations fast. The problem is... when I get there... due to the ship I use, I have no weapons. At all. And anything I drop out takes away important exploration equipment. I needed DPS. Any dps. So I dragged him along with me, I'd find the things, he's fly around and kill them. I'd then loot the complex and split things 50/50. So here we have a new player, pulling in about 20-40 mil per hour (sometimes a lot more depending on luck), and helping me do the same. A task that neither of us could have accomplished on our own.
-PVP: The pvp is balanced. It's chance that determines things. What are you in? How are you equiped? Is he equiped to counter you? Are you being abnormal enough to surprise your enemy? How much of an advantage do you have? Is the risk worth potentially losing that expensive item on your ship? Etc. There is no beat all ship. It's a game of advantages and disadantages. Not of "mine's bigger". Well thought out frigates can potentially completely disable a battleship. A fleet of stealth bombers can decimate things massively larger than them in seconds. Who says you actually have to kill them? Ransom isk is better sometimes than the stuff they might be carrying.
These are some of the reasons I personally am drawn to eve, and why it continues to be the only game that draws me back often. I hope these help explain some of the things that people are drawn to in eve, and what sets it apart in our mind from other games. If you have any questions feel free to ask. PMs are cool Also, can contact me in game if you decide you want to play: Player: Laedien Boulderan Corperation: The Sundered Guard.
I don't get people attachments to their avatar. I have played games since the start of video games and imagining that the tiny pixel on the screen is me isn't such a big deal, I guess i've just played so many games over the years that it doesn't bother me that I am a ship rather than some dressup doll. Hell, even the first games I was exposed to had me as a space ship (Asteroids and Space Invaders).
Seems to me this whole "im a ship and I dont like it" mentality is nothing more than a mental block for some people. I hear so often things like "oh i really like Eve but I can't get beyond the fact im not a person" I guess it's a whole lot easier to imagine yourself as the big hulking hero or the scantily clad heroine doing fantasical leaps and spins and magic attacks.
My opnion and strictly my opinion on the matter this.
The people who get Eve are people who have played every other game out there to death and back again, all those other games are tired and have been done before many times over the years. I am not speaking as a gamer of 5 or even 10 years, im talking as a gamer of 30 years now. Eve offers more than the same old loot / level grind. Eve offers a living breathing world rather than a gear farm dressup dollhouse.
Those that don't get Eve are still enjoying the games that are out there because they haven't played them all to death yet, that day will come.
I have been gaming as long as you have been, BUT....I'm female. And I sincerely don't mean this in a sexist way, it's just generally the case, that women often prefer different things to what men do...in their games. It's not true 100 percent across the board, but I would be willing to bet a year's salary, that it's true MORE often than not.
I think that probably women...are more "attached" as you call it...to our avatars. Similar to the fact that generally we probably care a BIT more about our personal appearance in RL. Not meant to be a slam to men, and not true about ALL men, (or all women), but...it's generally the case I believe.
To me....even after playing gadzillions of games, and from every genre even....EVE...is boring. (I think it's boring to me because I don't like outer space much, the mining and blueprints and stuff...cool, but I"m not into spaceship fighting, and until ambulation, at least, I can't see my BODY, and I don't LIKE that. Sorry.). I'm not alone in thinking that. But you're also not alone in loving it!
Takes all kinds to make the gaming world go 'round.
I don't get people attachments to their avatar. I have played games since the start of video games and imagining that the tiny pixel on the screen is me isn't such a big deal, I guess i've just played so many games over the years that it doesn't bother me that I am a ship rather than some dressup doll. Hell, even the first games I was exposed to had me as a space ship (Asteroids and Space Invaders).
Seems to me this whole "im a ship and I dont like it" mentality is nothing more than a mental block for some people. I hear so often things like "oh i really like Eve but I can't get beyond the fact im not a person" I guess it's a whole lot easier to imagine yourself as the big hulking hero or the scantily clad heroine doing fantasical leaps and spins and magic attacks.
My opnion and strictly my opinion on the matter this.
The people who get Eve are people who have played every other game out there to death and back again, all those other games are tired and have been done before many times over the years. I am not speaking as a gamer of 5 or even 10 years, im talking as a gamer of 30 years now. Eve offers more than the same old loot / level grind. Eve offers a living breathing world rather than a gear farm dressup dollhouse.
Those that don't get Eve are still enjoying the games that are out there because they haven't played them all to death yet, that day will come.
I have been gaming as long as you have been, BUT....I'm female. And I sincerely don't mean this in a sexist way, it's just generally the case, that women often prefer different things to what men do...in their games. It's not true 100 percent across the board, but I would be willing to bet a year's salary, that it's true MORE often than not.
I think that probably women...are more "attached" as you call it...to our avatars. Similar to the fact that generally we probably care a BIT more about our personal appearance in RL. Not meant to be a slam to men, and not true about ALL men, (or all women), but...it's generally the case I believe.
To me....even after playing gadzillions of games, and from every genre even....EVE...is boring. (I think it's boring to me because I don't like outer space much, the mining and blueprints and stuff...cool, but I"m not into spaceship fighting, and until ambulation, at least, I can't see my BODY, and I don't LIKE that. Sorry.). I'm not alone in thinking that. But you're also not alone in loving it!
Takes all kinds to make the gaming world go 'round.
I haven't really disagreed or been offended by anything you have said, generally speaking. However, I have never really understood how anyone could say, that having one body, is superior to having 30+ ships and an avatar. That's just me : )
I think the inde nature of the game is the reason for many of the things you mention. Originally, the game was designed to appeal to a specific, typically male, audience.
I don't get people attachments to their avatar. I have played games since the start of video games and imagining that the tiny pixel on the screen is me isn't such a big deal, I guess i've just played so many games over the years that it doesn't bother me that I am a ship rather than some dressup doll. Hell, even the first games I was exposed to had me as a space ship (Asteroids and Space Invaders).
Seems to me this whole "im a ship and I dont like it" mentality is nothing more than a mental block for some people. I hear so often things like "oh i really like Eve but I can't get beyond the fact im not a person" I guess it's a whole lot easier to imagine yourself as the big hulking hero or the scantily clad heroine doing fantasical leaps and spins and magic attacks.
My opnion and strictly my opinion on the matter this.
The people who get Eve are people who have played every other game out there to death and back again, all those other games are tired and have been done before many times over the years. I am not speaking as a gamer of 5 or even 10 years, im talking as a gamer of 30 years now. Eve offers more than the same old loot / level grind. Eve offers a living breathing world rather than a gear farm dressup dollhouse.
Those that don't get Eve are still enjoying the games that are out there because they haven't played them all to death yet, that day will come.
I have been gaming as long as you have been, BUT....I'm female. And I sincerely don't mean this in a sexist way, it's just generally the case, that women often prefer different things to what men do...in their games. It's not true 100 percent across the board, but I would be willing to bet a year's salary, that it's true MORE often than not.
I think that probably women...are more "attached" as you call it...to our avatars. Similar to the fact that generally we probably care a BIT more about our personal appearance in RL. Not meant to be a slam to men, and not true about ALL men, (or all women), but...it's generally the case I believe.
To me....even after playing gadzillions of games, and from every genre even....EVE...is boring. (I think it's boring to me because I don't like outer space much, the mining and blueprints and stuff...cool, but I"m not into spaceship fighting, and until ambulation, at least, I can't see my BODY, and I don't LIKE that. Sorry.). I'm not alone in thinking that. But you're also not alone in loving it!
Takes all kinds to make the gaming world go 'round.
You are making this a male / female thing and I think that is where you are wrong. While you say it's a girl thing to not like tanks and spaceships I see just as many guys saying they don't like being a space ship. It's a mental block, people have been so stuck in the past few years of games where everyone expects to play a realistic looking avatar on screen and dress them up with all the fancy new armor and crap they get. Guys go apeshit over this too, just look at all the guys in WoW hanging out in front of the Dalaran banks on their fancy mounts and upgraded tier 10 gear (yes I am playing both WoW and Eve at the moment).
As far as Ambulation goes, it's going to be great for the atmosphere and feel of the Eve world when docked but as far as changing the game to the point that those who think having a full body avatar will all of a sudden make them want to play this is just a pipedream. If you don't like the game now you wont like it then unless you really just wanna dressup and walk around a station and then might I suggest a game such as secondlife.
I dont love or hate the fact I dont have a body and fly a ship in Eve, to me it's just what I control and do things with in game, just like in WoW.
Those of us that get and love Eve know exactly why we do but explaining that to someone who doesn't is a near impossibilty. We can sit here and tell you about the living breathing world, the politics due to the single world no shards setup, the complexity of combat but all of that won't mean squat to those that just don't get the game yet and would rather go collect new clothes and parade it around a major city.
I find the people that "get" EVE the best are often people who haven't played other MMOs, and thus dont have pre-conceived notions about how MMOs "should be" to overcome. I am in this group.
I think its more like what "could be". Ignorance is bliss. I can't be happy with some second hand MMORPG if I have played some of the best. Then again if I didn't know anything better, I'd be perfectly happy with what I have. One must remember to respect the game as it is, but that doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvements.
By the way here's a fairly interesting presentation about the paradox of choice by Barry Schwartz that touches this subject. I know it's quite long but the the point in there was more or less that the freedom of choice is partially resposible of our misery. If we had just one game, we'd be happy. (UO anyone? wink wink nudge nudge )
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Atleast among the gamers I know, the more they have played games, the less likely they like Eve.
Wow. This sums it up perfectly. Although, where you argue it's because Eve doesn't stand out, I'd say it's because Eve isn't your basic "cookie cutter" game.
A lot of the people who started playing Eve because of me, stopped after their trial. Mostly because they were confused, or they started mining. Because of the complexity and the amount of things to do, they scooped to the one thing that was simplest (at first glance): mining.
Eve stands out in a million different ways, from its unique community to what I just mentioned; complexity.
Of course, a lot of people disagree with me, and this is fine. But going from a game like WoW (no offence, wowers), where your hand is guided/held from lv1 to endgame, to a game like Eve, where you're thrown into a bleak world without any direction besides your own (well, that's how it was like when I started. Now you have career agents, which help a bit - but doing nothing but point you in a direction)
[Edit]
Also, unrelated to the above, I totally agree with Lordmonkus; Ambulation is the integration of the ghost town called Second Life. People who don't like Eve as it is now, won't like it for long after Ambulation hits.
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that same directionlessness is what some people define as unfun. Eve for all its unlimitedness is limited in what is can offer. Missions can only be so complex and mining the same. Industry is a wait and watch activity many do not like and pvp is pretty much the same as pvp in almost every game where it is the same with only player skills making it different.
While hand holding games have the ability to create interesting quests that are different from the norm and can have more variety.
Not saying it is better or worse, but being unlimited has its downfalls because the developers can only do so much or they lose the unlimited and players can only really created so much "content".
I find the people that "get" EVE the best are often people who haven't played other MMOs, and thus dont have pre-conceived notions about how MMOs "should be" to overcome. I am in this group.
I think its more like what "could be". Ignorance is bliss. I can't be happy with some second hand MMORPG if I have played some of the best. Then again if I didn't know anything better, I'd be perfectly happy with what I have. One must remember to respect the game as it is, but that doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvements. By the way here's a fairly interesting presentation about the paradox of choice by Barry Schwartz that touches this subject.
Atleast among the gamers I know, the more they have played games, the less likely they like Eve. In the end, when comparing Eve to other games, not just MMOs, it does many things but it doesn't do any one thing good enough to stand out. -With the exception of the volume of the battles.
Then again there are those that "just don't like sci-fi" which is very confusing for a guy like me who gives a rats ass about what milieu the game has. I just want a good game.
If you come into this game with a theme park mindset. Specifically, safe quest areas, level advancement to endgame, and game enjoyment based on pre-developed content. There is going to be a barrier you, as a player, have to overcome to enjoy this game. This is just one of the facts of the game. New Eden is filled with pilots that were nothing but frustrated until they realized they can't approach this game like your typical MMO, and then these players play, year after year, and love the game.
that same directionlessness is what some people define as unfun. Eve for all its unlimitedness is limited in what is can offer. Missions can only be so complex and mining the same. Industry is a wait and watch activity many do not like and pvp is pretty much the same as pvp in almost every game where it is the same with only player skills making it different.
While hand holding games have the ability to create interesting quests that are different from the norm and can have more variety.
Not saying it is better or worse, but being unlimited has its downfalls because the developers can only do so much or they lose the unlimited and players can only really created so much "content".
In short: some people want to be entertained; some want to be allowed to entertain themselves. Nothing wrong with either of those desires, really - in fact people can switch from one to the other depending on mood and circumstance.
Atleast among the gamers I know, the more they have played games, the less likely they like Eve.
Wow. This sums it up perfectly. Although, where you argue it's because Eve doesn't stand out, I'd say it's because Eve isn't your basic "cookie cutter" game.
A lot of the people who started playing Eve because of me, stopped after their trial. Mostly because they were confused, or they started mining. Because of the complexity and the amount of things to do, they scooped to the one thing that was simplest (at first glance): mining.
I would agree with this. My Eve career back in beta where I did what every new player to Eve does and that was mine. Well after a couple of weeks of beta and mining I was done with this piece of sh!t game... or atleast I though I was. I hated the game, I never wanted to mine another roid again. But then the game launched and a couple of firends stuck with it and I ended up subscribing but swearing to never mine and from day one of launch I headed for 0.0 in my rifter and to this day my mining skill is still at 2 where it was when I made my character.
Dude, I tried it for 3 times and this 3rd time I started paying for it since there really isn't anything else worthwhile playing. It definitely isn't as good as the fans praise it to be. I still don't understand why people get so fanatic about it. I've been a longtime gamer and I've played tons of different games but I still don't get these people.
Yeah, I'm doing to free trial for the 3rd time and finally starting to like it. Maybe 3rd time's the charm?
And you're right, it isn't pure awesomeness in a cup. Combat is boring, which is a bummer for people like me who prefer fun interesting combat. If you have the patience to get through the first 2-3 hours of the game (which by the way are completely dreadful), then you might like it. Plus it helps to take it one thing at a time rather than trying to explore the vast universe right after you finish the tutorial.
To the guy who made this thread, don't try to like it if you don't like it. If you want to try again, then do it. But if you're not having fun, stop, log off, and go play outside or something. Only try it when you feel like you want to go back. EVE isn't something that you'll instantly fall in love with right after you log in, it has to grow on you to the point were it feels familiar and more like a friend than a cheap prostitute.
If you come into this game with a theme park mindset. Specifically, safe quest areas, level advancement to endgame, and game enjoyment based on pre-developed content. There is going to be a barrier you, as a player, have to overcome to enjoy this game. This is just one of the facts of the game. New Eden is filled with pilots that were nothing but frustrated until they realized they can't approach this game like your typical MMO, and then these players play, year after year, and love the game.
Maybe you can be gracious enough to explain to me my mindset? (This ought to be fun.)
It simply cannot be because of mindset alone that I think the...
-combat could be more exciting,
-or that the UI sucks,
-or that ISK grinding is mainly boring mission/WH/ratting/mining/plexing/market or otherwise,
-gate camping is boring,
-POS bashing is boring,
-Hi-Sec wars are horrible sheit (!!!),
-ganking lone ratters/plexers (or anyone else weaker or smaller fleet) is not challenging (no challenge = bad),
-and finding a near equal size fleet willing to fight is very rare which is a crying shame because all the stuff that leads to that eventual "fun" is very much boring!
-I must not forget that when you get some action, it is usually frustratingly short lived. Lilly Allen's song "Not Fair" comes to mind... For every 2 hours of work (yes, work) I should have a battle that lasts atleast 1 hour but no... it is more like 1 minute.
No mindset is going to change that to me. Your obvious mindset is that I'm playing this wrong, that the fault is somehow mine. Explain how the fault is mine. Are my expectations too high? Don't you think that they are so high because of other games?
Should I cherish that 1 minute of action and say that "it was worth it"? Other games offer the same and more, faster and easier. It is not a matter of patience if the wait/labor is not worth it.
I don't get the gambler's rush. Poker is quite boring game if there isn't money involved. With Eve it is the same thing. When you're not afraid of losing anything, it becomes quite dull. I see many of my alliance/corp mates flying very expensive ships in PvP clearly just to get more kicks out of the PvP. To me this seems just wrong. Should I do the same and be afraid of the boring grind I must do if I lose?
Every time I am chained to the wall by the fact that I do not have enough SP to accomplish what I want to do! This is yet another source of my frustration. Everything must take days, months to complete.
-I know that I could make 2,5 times more ISK by running missions with a Golem than a Raven. Training a Golem and flying it well takes ages.
-That Falcon pilot is full of crap. I bet I can fly a falcon much better - oh no, it takes yet more time to train.
-Damn, I wish I had an Ishtar so I could solo this plex easily - takes ages to train it.
-Oh how useful a Loki flying alt would be in a wormhole, with all its enhanced probing ability, cov-ops cloak, interdiction nullifier and long-range tractor beams for salvaging the sleepers...
-Or an Abaddon for POS bashing so I don't need to come and push the fire button every 12 minutes after reload - or better yet a freaking Dreadnought so it could be done a lot faster? Oh joy, lets wait some more!
-Hulk for efficient mining, Freighter to help moving s*** around etc...
I ask you again: You tell me why I feel like this. And even if you do have an explanation, does that make me like this game more?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Dude, I tried it for 3 times and this 3rd time I started paying for it since there really isn't anything else worthwhile playing. It definitely isn't as good as the fans praise it to be. I still don't understand why people get so fanatic about it. I've been a longtime gamer and I've played tons of different games but I still don't get these people.
Yeah, I'm doing to free trial for the 3rd time and finally starting to like it. Maybe 3rd time's the charm?
And you're right, it isn't pure awesomeness in a cup. Combat is boring, which is a bummer for people like me who prefer fun interesting combat. If you have the patience to get through the first 2-3 hours of the game (which by the way are completely dreadful), then you might like it. Plus it helps to take it one thing at a time rather than trying to explore the vast universe right after you finish the tutorial.
To the guy who made this thread, don't try to like it if you don't like it. If you want to try again, then do it. But if you're not having fun, stop, log off, and go play outside or something. Only try it when you feel like you want to go back. EVE isn't something that you'll instantly fall in love with right after you log in, it has to grow on you to the point were it feels familiar and more like a friend than a cheap prostitute.
I guess its 8 months in now and I'm anxious to find another MMO to play. Gosh, I'm playing around with the thought of trying out Darkfall or WoW...
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
If you come into this game with a theme park mindset. Specifically, safe quest areas, level advancement to endgame, and game enjoyment based on pre-developed content. There is going to be a barrier you, as a player, have to overcome to enjoy this game. This is just one of the facts of the game. New Eden is filled with pilots that were nothing but frustrated until they realized they can't approach this game like your typical MMO, and then these players play, year after year, and love the game.
Maybe you can be gracious enough to explain to me my mindset? (This ought to be fun.)
It simply cannot be because of mindset alone that I think the...
-combat could be more exciting,
- I guess there should be a bunch of numbers floating above the npcs when you hit them ?
-or that the UI sucks,
- Wow, that was well put. I have zero issues with the UI and I am a UI modding customizing junkie.
-or that ISK grinding is mainly boring mission/WH/ratting/mining/plexing/market or otherwise,
- No more boring than farming gold or other items in any other game, yet no one is forcing you to do that here.
-gate camping is boring,
- And your point is ? Go do somethingyou find fun in the game.
-POS bashing is boring,
- See above.
-Hi-Sec wars are horrible sheit (!!!),
- Almost as well put as your UI complaint.
-ganking lone ratters/plexers (or anyone else weaker or smaller fleet) is not challenging (no challenge = bad),
- Ganking people lower level than you in other games is a challenge and fun ?
-and finding a near equal size fleet willing to fight is very rare which is a crying shame because all the stuff that leads to that eventual "fun" is very much boring!
-Maybe some people enjoy fighting and defeating fleets lrger than them. These people do exist in Eve.
-I must not forget that when you get some action, it is usually frustratingly short lived. Lilly Allen's song "Not Fair" comes to mind... For every 2 hours of work (yes, work) I should have a battle that lasts atleast 1 hour but no... it is more like 1 minute.
-Work ? Where is this work you speak of in game ? If it feels like work you are doing something wrong.
No mindset is going to change that to me. Your obvious mindset is that I'm playing this wrong, that the fault is somehow mine. Explain how the fault is mine. Are my expectations too high? Don't you think that they are so high because of other games?
- You are doing it wrong because you are imposing some supposed level of fun on an in game activiity that is boring as piss in every other game out there as well.
Should I cherish that 1 minute of action and say that "it was worth it"? Other games offer the same and more, faster and easier. It is not a matter of patience if the wait/labor is not worth it.
- Because farming gear for a month just so you can go kill some dragon in 10 minutes is sooooo much more worth it. I guess it was better cause you just had to log in and be ported where you needed and you logged out and back in bed in 15 minutes.
I don't get the gambler's rush. Poker is quite boring game if there isn't money involved. With Eve it is the same thing. When you're not afraid of losing anything, it becomes quite dull. I see many of my alliance/corp mates flying very expensive ships in PvP clearly just to get more kicks out of the PvP. To me this seems just wrong. Should I do the same and be afraid of the boring grind I must do if I lose?
- You don't have to fly expensive ships for this, but remove all the cost from death and you end up with mindless zergfest pvp which is stupid and pointless.
Every time I am chained to the wall by the fact that I do not have enough SP to accomplish what I want to do! This is yet another source of my frustration. Everything must take days, months to complete.
- Yup just like every other MMO out there. Do you meet the level / gear requirement to go on raid X ?
-I know that I could make 2,5 times more ISK by running missions with a Golem than a Raven. Training a Golem and flying it well takes ages.
- Damnit, so does leveling so I can kill that big dragon with the shiny loots.
-That Falcon pilot is full of crap. I bet I can fly a falcon much better - oh no, it takes yet more time to train.
- That players class looks so much better than mine I wish I could train what he has... Oh wait I can.
-Damn, I wish I had an Ishtar so I could solo this plex easily - takes ages to train it.
- Luckily in this game you can just go buy the skill and train it instead of rerolling and regearing.
-Oh how useful a Loki flying alt would be in a wormhole, with all its enhanced probing ability, cov-ops cloak, interdiction nullifier and long-range tractor beams for salvaging the sleepers...
-Or an Abaddon for POS bashing so I don't need to come and push the fire button every 12 minutes after reload - or better yet a freaking Dreadnought so it could be done a lot faster? Oh joy, lets wait some more!
-Hulk for efficient mining, Freighter to help moving s*** around etc...
- Sounds like grass is always greener syndrome, you want everything everyone else has but you are too lazy to go get it, it's much easier to whine and cry over it.
I ask you again: You tell me why I feel like this. And even if you do have an explanation, does that make me like this game more?
I'll take a stab at this one.
You more than simpley don't like the game you have such a dislike for it you want to bash it for the exact same faults Eve has along with every other mmo out there but you won't take the time to find what in the game is done right and what does make it better than every thing else out there because you are lazy and would rather cry than find out why you are in fact wrong.
Does this make you like the game more ? I highly doubt it, your mind was made up a long time ago and by the tone of your post you will not change your mind or look to see why you are wrong because of pride.
There are no "levels". You can access 90% of the game right out the door. The fun comes from playing with friends and being in corporations. Because all of the stats mainly come from what you actually equip to your ship and not from your skills (primarily, but skills do help a lot) ti allows for a lot of experimenting and some of the things that can go down are epic.
I remember a few years ago, the fastest ship I had ever flown went 400+m/s, but the first time I put a microwarp drive on one of my ships (it makes your ship go faster) I was blown away. My ship went 2.5km/s. That's 5 TIMES as fast as the one I had flown previously. It's little "aha" moments like these that stand out. Also giant 500vs500 fleet battles when you join a big corp don't hurt either. You shape the world by changing the market (that is player-driven) or dominating solar systems (with your corporation) or even just forming a raiding pirate party and destroying extremely valuable ships that players spent months getting. There is something for everyone. Even mathematicians. Don't see that demographic catered to too often.
But if you so desire, you can just copy other people's designs and carve your own little path. When I can hop into a frigate (a very small ship that anyone just starting out can fly the best of in a week or so) and take out a battleship (a rather large ship) with the help of one or two friends, that is a fun game.
It's not about adding content as you progress, it's about mastering the content given to you from the start. And that's hard enough.
If you come into this game with a theme park mindset. Specifically, safe quest areas, level advancement to endgame, and game enjoyment based on pre-developed content. There is going to be a barrier you, as a player, have to overcome to enjoy this game. This is just one of the facts of the game. New Eden is filled with pilots that were nothing but frustrated until they realized they can't approach this game like your typical MMO, and then these players play, year after year, and love the game.
Maybe you can be gracious enough to explain to me my mindset? (This ought to be fun.)
It simply cannot be because of mindset alone that I think the...
-combat could be more exciting,
Not without changing the whole game.
-or that the UI sucks,
How?
-or that ISK grinding is mainly boring mission/WH/ratting/mining/plexing/market or otherwise,
You obviously don't play missions past level 3. Or with any friends.
-gate camping is boring,
Well yeah. God forbid you actually try to go somewhere to kill someone instead of waiting at a gate.
-POS bashing is boring,
Then don't do it.
-Hi-Sec wars are horrible sheit (!!!),
Well of course they are. You're not really supposed to even fight in hi-sex space. Why do you think there are so many lo-sec systems?
-ganking lone ratters/plexers (or anyone else weaker or smaller fleet) is not challenging (no challenge = bad),
Is ganking anyone that's weaker than you ever fun?
-and finding a near equal size fleet willing to fight is very rare which is a crying shame because all the stuff that leads to that eventual "fun" is very much boring!
You could try to set these fights up. People do do that you know. it's called communication.
-I must not forget that when you get some action, it is usually frustratingly short lived. Lilly Allen's song "Not Fair" comes to mind... For every 2 hours of work (yes, work) I should have a battle that lasts atleast 1 hour but no... it is more like 1 minute.
find me an hour long battle anywhere where the two sides had less than 40 people on each side and I'll expose a lie. I think you're expecting too much. I don't think any game can give you double the fun for half the work.
No mindset is going to change that to me. Your obvious mindset is that I'm playing this wrong, that the fault is somehow mine. Explain how the fault is mine. Are my expectations too high? Don't you think that they are so high because of other games?
Should I cherish that 1 minute of action and say that "it was worth it"? Other games offer the same and more, faster and easier. It is not a matter of patience if the wait/labor is not worth it.
I don't get the gambler's rush. Poker is quite boring game if there isn't money involved. With Eve it is the same thing. When you're not afraid of losing anything, it becomes quite dull. I see many of my alliance/corp mates flying very expensive ships in PvP clearly just to get more kicks out of the PvP. To me this seems just wrong. Should I do the same and be afraid of the boring grind I must do if I lose?
Every time I am chained to the wall by the fact that I do not have enough SP to accomplish what I want to do! This is yet another source of my frustration. Everything must take days, months to complete.
-I know that I could make 2,5 times more ISK by running missions with a Golem than a Raven. Training a Golem and flying it well takes ages.
That is called patience, my friend. If you don't have any, you should not be playing this game. I'm frustrated that I still have 5 more days to learn battleships 4, but I'm not gunna whine about it, because when i get to 5 it will be totally awesome and so worth it cause I can pilot a marauder until the end of time.
-That Falcon pilot is full of crap. I bet I can fly a falcon much better - oh no, it takes yet more time to train.
Patience.
-Damn, I wish I had an Ishtar so I could solo this plex easily - takes ages to train it.
PATIENCE.
-Oh how useful a Loki flying alt would be in a wormhole, with all its enhanced probing ability, cov-ops cloak, interdiction nullifier and long-range tractor beams for salvaging the sleepers...
I don't have that many skill points and can fly a loki, man.
-Or an Abaddon for POS bashing so I don't need to come and push the fire button every 12 minutes after reload - or better yet a freaking Dreadnought so it could be done a lot faster? Oh joy, lets wait some more!
I can almost fly a dreadnought.
-Hulk for efficient mining, Freighter to help moving s*** around etc...
And these.
I ask you again: You tell me why I feel like this. And even if you do have an explanation, does that make me like this game more?
If you come into this game with a theme park mindset. Specifically, safe quest areas, level advancement to endgame, and game enjoyment based on pre-developed content. There is going to be a barrier you, as a player, have to overcome to enjoy this game. This is just one of the facts of the game. New Eden is filled with pilots that were nothing but frustrated until they realized they can't approach this game like your typical MMO, and then these players play, year after year, and love the game.
Maybe you can be gracious enough to explain to me my mindset? (This ought to be fun.)
It simply cannot be because of mindset alone that I think the...
-combat could be more exciting,
-or that the UI sucks,
-or that ISK grinding is mainly boring mission/WH/ratting/mining/plexing/market or otherwise,
-gate camping is boring,
-POS bashing is boring,
-Hi-Sec wars are horrible sheit (!!!),
-ganking lone ratters/plexers (or anyone else weaker or smaller fleet) is not challenging (no challenge = bad),
-and finding a near equal size fleet willing to fight is very rare which is a crying shame because all the stuff that leads to that eventual "fun" is very much boring!
-I must not forget that when you get some action, it is usually frustratingly short lived. Lilly Allen's song "Not Fair" comes to mind... For every 2 hours of work (yes, work) I should have a battle that lasts atleast 1 hour but no... it is more like 1 minute.
No mindset is going to change that to me. Your obvious mindset is that I'm playing this wrong, that the fault is somehow mine. Explain how the fault is mine. Are my expectations too high? Don't you think that they are so high because of other games?
Should I cherish that 1 minute of action and say that "it was worth it"? Other games offer the same and more, faster and easier. It is not a matter of patience if the wait/labor is not worth it.
I don't get the gambler's rush. Poker is quite boring game if there isn't money involved. With Eve it is the same thing. When you're not afraid of losing anything, it becomes quite dull. I see many of my alliance/corp mates flying very expensive ships in PvP clearly just to get more kicks out of the PvP. To me this seems just wrong. Should I do the same and be afraid of the boring grind I must do if I lose?
Every time I am chained to the wall by the fact that I do not have enough SP to accomplish what I want to do! This is yet another source of my frustration. Everything must take days, months to complete.
-I know that I could make 2,5 times more ISK by running missions with a Golem than a Raven. Training a Golem and flying it well takes ages.
-That Falcon pilot is full of crap. I bet I can fly a falcon much better - oh no, it takes yet more time to train.
-Damn, I wish I had an Ishtar so I could solo this plex easily - takes ages to train it.
-Oh how useful a Loki flying alt would be in a wormhole, with all its enhanced probing ability, cov-ops cloak, interdiction nullifier and long-range tractor beams for salvaging the sleepers...
-Or an Abaddon for POS bashing so I don't need to come and push the fire button every 12 minutes after reload - or better yet a freaking Dreadnought so it could be done a lot faster? Oh joy, lets wait some more!
-Hulk for efficient mining, Freighter to help moving s*** around etc...
I ask you again: You tell me why I feel like this. And even if you do have an explanation, does that make me like this game more?
Out of touch maybe,
You said in your previous post, “Atleast among the gamers I know, the more they have played games, the less likely they like Eve.”
I was simply continuing this line of thought, and really believed I was just agreeing with part of your post. I don’t think the idea that many people play fantasy theme park games, and that when these people come to EVE’s sandbox, they must change their mindset, is controversial or deniable.
Many never do and don’t like the game; some don’t like it for other reasons. Many people, however, soon learn that EVE is about the people you interact with, and the risk you take together and they learn to appreciate the depth of options that are provided. They like for example that you can be in a null sec battle one day, and in a high sec mission gang the next. You can be a scout, a damage dealer, or a hauler, all in the same day and all of these things are contributing (and vitality needed) to the success of your group.
It’s not about playing pre-developed content for your own character. It’s about using the tools provided to work together in a game world filled with risk, cruelty, and options. There is a long line of people that get and love it for what it is, and have found a way to make it work for them. I’m sorry you’re not one of them.
Personally, I would say you are so caught up on the things you think you can’t do, that you fail to see the many you can. Because the truth is SP will not change that in this game. If you’re finding reasons you can’t do things at 5 mil, you will at 10, 20 and all the way up the latter.
The idea you have to fly special ships to have fun is just silly. If you can’t make T1 fun you wont have fun in T2 either. Just plain fact.
It’s not about the things your character can do; it’s about what you as a person can do with others in a dynamic game world.
There are many options out there if you are able to think outside the box and make it happen, and you can literally do this over and over again in this game. (And yes this exactly what I do, when I find a situation I don’t like, I think and I change the situation) No other game has ever given me that ability for so long.
Maybe it's your mindset, maybe not. The only point I was making, was if you come from a theme park background, you will have to change your views on what a game should be if you want to have fun in this sandbox, and I stand by that statement.
Thank god everything isn't following WOW's little circus!
All of you have wonderful "explanations" of why EVE is a game you really enjoy, but seriously...to assume others DON'T because they like themepark games is....kind of silly.
I actually like a lot of different styles of games. And I love sandbox and sandboxy games. Some of the things you said, can also be said about Fallen Earth, and I'm VERY fond of that game. A lot of people don't "get" Fallen Earth either, so I can relate to you feeling like people just don't "get it."
I sincerely think my BIGGEST problem with EVE, is pure and simple....I don't dig outer space. It's not somewhere I've ever fantasized about living, it's not interesting to me, I'm not a big fan of science fiction or Star Wars, or Star Trek, or really ANY thing having to do with space. But nonetheless....I played EVE for a few months, because I had heard SO much about the sandbox elements and training and it just sounded compelling to me. I thought I could "overlook" the outerspace environment. But....I couldn't.
What I liked MOST was the complexity of it! I loved figuring out my path of training to get my HULK and I enjoyed taking out insurance on all of my ships (I only had 4, counting the newb ship), and I enjoyed the process of making a lot of isk selling my ores to the highest paying stations and people and hunting down that bargain training and traveling to go pick up books or to sell ore where it paid the most, etc. THOSE THINGS were really enjoyable to me. But at the end of the day....I still couldn't get into "zone" after "zone" of differently colored and shaded vapors and planets....it just seemed so....BLAND to me, as far as a "world" to live in. Blah.
So I truly think my biggest hang up....is really just space itself, probably even more than the lack of a visible character. And to be entirely honest....I knew that I wasn't going to get into the PvP end of things before I even started playing. I kind of invisioned myself being more a part of a corp that makes a lot of isk SELLING to PvP'ers (and I was). But still....I'm just NOT a space girl! lol I know that sounds nutty, but....I don't think the game play itself, or the complexity (which I actually liked, just like I like it in Fallen Earth) were the issues. I just can't seem to really GROOVE ON floating around in space.
I feel like I should apologize for not being a big fan of the game. I certainly didn't hate it. I have some fond memories from it, from going on mining missions with my corp and having them "protect" lil' ol' me in my big honkin' mining barges....there were some fun times in that. I just never felt really "immersed" in it all.
I can't say ENOUGH how I really think that EVE is a great game, BUT.....some people just truthfully will NOT like it simply because it's not a gaming ENVIRONMENT that "flips their switch." I think I was just one of those folks, is all.
All of you have wonderful "explanations" of why EVE is a game you really enjoy, but seriously...to assume others DON'T because they like themepark games is....kind of silly.
No body is saying that because they like themepark games is the reason they don't like Eve. All is being said is that because many of these people have been playing themepark games and with that mentality and then bring that mentailty into Eve and it simpley will not work here.
I actually like a lot of different styles of games. And I love sandbox and sandboxy games. Some of the things you said, can also be said about Fallen Earth, and I'm VERY fond of that game. A lot of people don't "get" Fallen Earth either, so I can relate to you feeling like people just don't "get it."
I love lot's of games as well, playing both WoW and Eve at the moment, how strange is that I actually like both games ?
I sincerely think my BIGGEST problem with EVE, is pure and simple....I don't dig outer space. It's not somewhere I've ever fantasized about living, it's not interesting to me, I'm not a big fan of science fiction or Star Wars, or Star Trek, or really ANY thing having to do with space. But nonetheless....I played EVE for a few months, because I had heard SO much about the sandbox elements and training and it just sounded compelling to me. I thought I could "overlook" the outerspace environment. But....I couldn't.
If you don't like space you just don't like space, I don't think that has anything to do with the game other than the setting.
What I liked MOST was the complexity of it! I loved figuring out my path of training to get my HULK and I enjoyed taking out insurance on all of my ships (I only had 4, counting the newb ship), and I enjoyed the process of making a lot of isk selling my ores to the highest paying stations and people and hunting down that bargain training and traveling to go pick up books or to sell ore where it paid the most, etc. THOSE THINGS were really enjoyable to me. But at the end of the day....I still couldn't get into "zone" after "zone" of differently colored and shaded vapors and planets....it just seemed so....BLAND to me, as far as a "world" to live in. Blah.
Sounds like you liked the game and got it but you just can't get past the space thing.
So I truly think my biggest hang up....is really just space itself, probably even more than the lack of a visible character. And to be entirely honest....I knew that I wasn't going to get into the PvP end of things before I even started playing. I kind of invisioned myself being more a part of a corp that makes a lot of isk SELLING to PvP'ers (and I was). But still....I'm just NOT a space girl! lol I know that sounds nutty, but....I don't think the game play itself, or the complexity (which I actually liked, just like I like it in Fallen Earth) were the issues. I just can't seem to really GROOVE ON floating around in space.
I feel like I should apologize for not being a big fan of the game. I certainly didn't hate it. I have some fond memories from it, from going on mining missions with my corp and having them "protect" lil' ol' me in my big honkin' mining barges....there were some fun times in that. I just never felt really "immersed" in it all.
Well if you feel bad for not liking the game it's ok because atleast you can recognize the games merits.
I can't say ENOUGH how I really think that EVE is a great game, BUT.....some people just truthfully will NOT like it simply because it's not a gaming ENVIRONMENT that "flips their switch." I think I was just one of those folks, is all.
Again, no one who plays and enjoys Eve have problems with people just not liking the game, it's more when people start posting false crap as reasons is when the Eve community gets defensive. We understand and get that people do not like the game, we know it's not for everyone and CCP is not trying to cater to everyone or the lowest common denomenator.
Comments
Its true.
You can only activly gain XP on a single character in any MMO. Unless you are multi boxing which requires multiple accounts.. in which case you can do this in eve too.
The big difference with eve is that the more you multibox the faster and bigger amounts of ISK you can earn.. which can be used to PAY for those other accounts.
Thats why you have players who never spend a penny on an eve subscription and can maintain 7+ accounts
edit:
Sorry I should point out that with contracts, buy and sell orders you wont even need to have all these accounts loaded at once (unlike other mmo's) I know of at least 10 people who all have 5+ accounts, but they only ever need to log into one or two at a time... the rest are 'auto money making' characters who simply need to be logged into once a week or so to adjust things.
Yup. I don't think any of my friends, and certainly not myself, would be down for any tank or mech games either, and....most of us also (one exception on this one...she plays Civ IV) aren't that nutty about RTS games. None of us play Call of Duty 4....etc.
With EVE....for most women (just my opinion)....I also don't think it helps much that your avatar is just a static image that you can't really identify with because, at least until the ambulation patch arrives (if ever), you can't see her. You're constantly holed up inside a pod in a ship....blah.
I just don't think war games, space games, mech and tank games....are really meant to cater to the female gamer much. Odd thing is....I know a lot of female gamers who DO enjoy PvP, just not in those types of games, but rather in Warhammer, Guild Wars, WoW, several of us played UO, I think Lance's girlfriend, Candy, used to play DAoC when it was new....etc. So it's not the PvP that is a put off, but more the ENVIRONMENTS and/or connection to your AVATAR (like...EVE really has none).
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
My guess is he tried the game years ago, since warp to zero was added somewhere at the beginning of 2007.
I don't get people attachments to their avatar. I have played games since the start of video games and imagining that the tiny pixel on the screen is me isn't such a big deal, I guess i've just played so many games over the years that it doesn't bother me that I am a ship rather than some dressup doll. Hell, even the first games I was exposed to had me as a space ship (Asteroids and Space Invaders).
Seems to me this whole "im a ship and I dont like it" mentality is nothing more than a mental block for some people. I hear so often things like "oh i really like Eve but I can't get beyond the fact im not a person" I guess it's a whole lot easier to imagine yourself as the big hulking hero or the scantily clad heroine doing fantasical leaps and spins and magic attacks.
My opnion and strictly my opinion on the matter this.
The people who get Eve are people who have played every other game out there to death and back again, all those other games are tired and have been done before many times over the years. I am not speaking as a gamer of 5 or even 10 years, im talking as a gamer of 30 years now. Eve offers more than the same old loot / level grind. Eve offers a living breathing world rather than a gear farm dressup dollhouse.
Those that don't get Eve are still enjoying the games that are out there because they haven't played them all to death yet, that day will come.
I find the people that "get" EVE the best are often people who haven't played other MMOs, and thus dont have pre-conceived notions about how MMOs "should be" to overcome. I am in this group.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Well i hope you'll fire up a trial when Incarna gets released. Apparently CCP are using some pretty fancy graphics technology for the capsuleer avatars.
Incarna Teaser
Incarna Presentation
CCP APEX clothing demo
Give me liberty or give me lasers
What I like about EVE online.
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Eve is like playing with legos, in a world that is legos. When you start out, you're given a whole bunch of legos, but nothing is built yet. Everything is reshapable, and those things are shaped by players.
-The economy is completely player run, all items, from the core materials to the largest capitol ships in the game.
-Pretty much everything can be distroyed (the exception being NPC corps, factions, NPC stations), meaning there's always risk involved in anything you do. Ever. Even calm, highsec mining can be not so safe.
-In most MMOs you're told what to do, or there is an assumption of what you're going to do. You quest. Or you go to X location where you know you will do Y. And you do it becasue it drops Z. You get a group together to go kill things in a given area. Those are all very predicible things that we all learned from long long ago in the days of EQ and UO. In Eve, you have to decide what you're going to do. You have to find your niche. There are some nice pointers as to what's out there (see: http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Occupations ) but there are many others--the key is... surprise.... you have to find them. And things change. Just because mining x was a big money maker yesterday doesn't mean the same will be true tomorrow.
-It evolves. We talk a lot about end game stuffs in Eve. But really, there's so much to /do/ in eve it's hard to think of it in those terms. End game stuffs is simply more advanced beginning of the game stuffs in eve. It's like standing in the middle of about fifty sets of stairs. With each new update and expansion, more stairs are added and expanded upon. Sometimes entire new sets of stairs are put in (see planatary interaction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Q8hNHJUP8 which comes out in the next expansion).
-The people. I'm not going to lie, it's hard to find a group of people in eve--the new person corps are useful, but underused. Red, Blue, Eve University, etc. But once you find a group of people, possibilities go soaring to whereever you guys want to go. If there's one thing I highly recomment before giving eve up, is to join a corperation. I'm not saying that this will garentee you liking the game, but that's where the game really begins. (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq2oxt7Nrxo )
-Alliances.... how many other games are there out there that you can actually own constilations? Systems? ((Or comparitively to other games, even massive areas of land)) How many other games allow massive battles to fight for control of those areas? I'm not saying there are none other--just that Eve does this entire system very, very well. And as far as I've played, none really get close.
-You're useful from the start. I didn't feel this way either at the beginning, but I know it to be true now--a lot of my problem, in retrospect, was waiting for so long to get in to a corp. Here's my example story of a way that new players can be useful. I have a friend in game who I invited to our corperation and got him involved. He was, at the time, less than a month old in game. I am a decently good explorer. I find things quickly, and can get to the locations fast. The problem is... when I get there... due to the ship I use, I have no weapons. At all. And anything I drop out takes away important exploration equipment. I needed DPS. Any dps. So I dragged him along with me, I'd find the things, he's fly around and kill them. I'd then loot the complex and split things 50/50. So here we have a new player, pulling in about 20-40 mil per hour (sometimes a lot more depending on luck), and helping me do the same. A task that neither of us could have accomplished on our own.
-PVP: The pvp is balanced. It's chance that determines things. What are you in? How are you equiped? Is he equiped to counter you? Are you being abnormal enough to surprise your enemy? How much of an advantage do you have? Is the risk worth potentially losing that expensive item on your ship? Etc. There is no beat all ship. It's a game of advantages and disadantages. Not of "mine's bigger". Well thought out frigates can potentially completely disable a battleship. A fleet of stealth bombers can decimate things massively larger than them in seconds. Who says you actually have to kill them? Ransom isk is better sometimes than the stuff they might be carrying.
These are some of the reasons I personally am drawn to eve, and why it continues to be the only game that draws me back often. I hope these help explain some of the things that people are drawn to in eve, and what sets it apart in our mind from other games. If you have any questions feel free to ask. PMs are cool
Also, can contact me in game if you decide you want to play: Player: Laedien Boulderan Corperation: The Sundered Guard.
((edit: Added hyperlinks))
I have been gaming as long as you have been, BUT....I'm female. And I sincerely don't mean this in a sexist way, it's just generally the case, that women often prefer different things to what men do...in their games. It's not true 100 percent across the board, but I would be willing to bet a year's salary, that it's true MORE often than not.
I think that probably women...are more "attached" as you call it...to our avatars. Similar to the fact that generally we probably care a BIT more about our personal appearance in RL. Not meant to be a slam to men, and not true about ALL men, (or all women), but...it's generally the case I believe.
To me....even after playing gadzillions of games, and from every genre even....EVE...is boring. (I think it's boring to me because I don't like outer space much, the mining and blueprints and stuff...cool, but I"m not into spaceship fighting, and until ambulation, at least, I can't see my BODY, and I don't LIKE that. Sorry.). I'm not alone in thinking that. But you're also not alone in loving it!
Takes all kinds to make the gaming world go 'round.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I haven't really disagreed or been offended by anything you have said, generally speaking. However, I have never really understood how anyone could say, that having one body, is superior to having 30+ ships and an avatar. That's just me : )
I think the inde nature of the game is the reason for many of the things you mention. Originally, the game was designed to appeal to a specific, typically male, audience.
You are making this a male / female thing and I think that is where you are wrong. While you say it's a girl thing to not like tanks and spaceships I see just as many guys saying they don't like being a space ship. It's a mental block, people have been so stuck in the past few years of games where everyone expects to play a realistic looking avatar on screen and dress them up with all the fancy new armor and crap they get. Guys go apeshit over this too, just look at all the guys in WoW hanging out in front of the Dalaran banks on their fancy mounts and upgraded tier 10 gear (yes I am playing both WoW and Eve at the moment).
As far as Ambulation goes, it's going to be great for the atmosphere and feel of the Eve world when docked but as far as changing the game to the point that those who think having a full body avatar will all of a sudden make them want to play this is just a pipedream. If you don't like the game now you wont like it then unless you really just wanna dressup and walk around a station and then might I suggest a game such as secondlife.
I dont love or hate the fact I dont have a body and fly a ship in Eve, to me it's just what I control and do things with in game, just like in WoW.
Those of us that get and love Eve know exactly why we do but explaining that to someone who doesn't is a near impossibilty. We can sit here and tell you about the living breathing world, the politics due to the single world no shards setup, the complexity of combat but all of that won't mean squat to those that just don't get the game yet and would rather go collect new clothes and parade it around a major city.
I think its more like what "could be". Ignorance is bliss. I can't be happy with some second hand MMORPG if I have played some of the best. Then again if I didn't know anything better, I'd be perfectly happy with what I have. One must remember to respect the game as it is, but that doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvements.
By the way here's a fairly interesting presentation about the paradox of choice by Barry Schwartz that touches this subject. I know it's quite long but the the point in there was more or less that the freedom of choice is partially resposible of our misery. If we had just one game, we'd be happy. (UO anyone? wink wink nudge nudge
)
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Wow. This sums it up perfectly. Although, where you argue it's because Eve doesn't stand out, I'd say it's because Eve isn't your basic "cookie cutter" game.
A lot of the people who started playing Eve because of me, stopped after their trial. Mostly because they were confused, or they started mining. Because of the complexity and the amount of things to do, they scooped to the one thing that was simplest (at first glance): mining.
Eve stands out in a million different ways, from its unique community to what I just mentioned; complexity.
Of course, a lot of people disagree with me, and this is fine. But going from a game like WoW (no offence, wowers), where your hand is guided/held from lv1 to endgame, to a game like Eve, where you're thrown into a bleak world without any direction besides your own (well, that's how it was like when I started. Now you have career agents, which help a bit - but doing nothing but point you in a direction)
[Edit]
Also, unrelated to the above, I totally agree with Lordmonkus; Ambulation is the integration of the ghost town called Second Life. People who don't like Eve as it is now, won't like it for long after Ambulation hits.
Follow my tweet (:
that same directionlessness is what some people define as unfun. Eve for all its unlimitedness is limited in what is can offer. Missions can only be so complex and mining the same. Industry is a wait and watch activity many do not like and pvp is pretty much the same as pvp in almost every game where it is the same with only player skills making it different.
While hand holding games have the ability to create interesting quests that are different from the norm and can have more variety.
Not saying it is better or worse, but being unlimited has its downfalls because the developers can only do so much or they lose the unlimited and players can only really created so much "content".
If you come into this game with a theme park mindset. Specifically, safe quest areas, level advancement to endgame, and game enjoyment based on pre-developed content. There is going to be a barrier you, as a player, have to overcome to enjoy this game. This is just one of the facts of the game. New Eden is filled with pilots that were nothing but frustrated until they realized they can't approach this game like your typical MMO, and then these players play, year after year, and love the game.
In short: some people want to be entertained; some want to be allowed to entertain themselves. Nothing wrong with either of those desires, really - in fact people can switch from one to the other depending on mood and circumstance.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I would agree with this. My Eve career back in beta where I did what every new player to Eve does and that was mine. Well after a couple of weeks of beta and mining I was done with this piece of sh!t game... or atleast I though I was. I hated the game, I never wanted to mine another roid again. But then the game launched and a couple of firends stuck with it and I ended up subscribing but swearing to never mine and from day one of launch I headed for 0.0 in my rifter and to this day my mining skill is still at 2 where it was when I made my character.
Yeah, I'm doing to free trial for the 3rd time and finally starting to like it. Maybe 3rd time's the charm?
And you're right, it isn't pure awesomeness in a cup. Combat is boring, which is a bummer for people like me who prefer fun interesting combat. If you have the patience to get through the first 2-3 hours of the game (which by the way are completely dreadful), then you might like it. Plus it helps to take it one thing at a time rather than trying to explore the vast universe right after you finish the tutorial.
To the guy who made this thread, don't try to like it if you don't like it. If you want to try again, then do it. But if you're not having fun, stop, log off, and go play outside or something. Only try it when you feel like you want to go back. EVE isn't something that you'll instantly fall in love with right after you log in, it has to grow on you to the point were it feels familiar and more like a friend than a cheap prostitute.
This statement is false.
Maybe you can be gracious enough to explain to me my mindset? (This ought to be fun.)
It simply cannot be because of mindset alone that I think the...
-combat could be more exciting,
-or that the UI sucks,
-or that ISK grinding is mainly boring mission/WH/ratting/mining/plexing/market or otherwise,
-gate camping is boring,
-POS bashing is boring,
-Hi-Sec wars are horrible sheit (!!!),
-ganking lone ratters/plexers (or anyone else weaker or smaller fleet) is not challenging (no challenge = bad),
-and finding a near equal size fleet willing to fight is very rare which is a crying shame because all the stuff that leads to that eventual "fun" is very much boring!
-I must not forget that when you get some action, it is usually frustratingly short lived. Lilly Allen's song "Not Fair" comes to mind... For every 2 hours of work (yes, work) I should have a battle that lasts atleast 1 hour but no... it is more like 1 minute.
No mindset is going to change that to me. Your obvious mindset is that I'm playing this wrong, that the fault is somehow mine. Explain how the fault is mine. Are my expectations too high? Don't you think that they are so high because of other games?
Should I cherish that 1 minute of action and say that "it was worth it"? Other games offer the same and more, faster and easier. It is not a matter of patience if the wait/labor is not worth it.
I don't get the gambler's rush. Poker is quite boring game if there isn't money involved. With Eve it is the same thing. When you're not afraid of losing anything, it becomes quite dull. I see many of my alliance/corp mates flying very expensive ships in PvP clearly just to get more kicks out of the PvP. To me this seems just wrong. Should I do the same and be afraid of the boring grind I must do if I lose?
Every time I am chained to the wall by the fact that I do not have enough SP to accomplish what I want to do! This is yet another source of my frustration. Everything must take days, months to complete.
-I know that I could make 2,5 times more ISK by running missions with a Golem than a Raven. Training a Golem and flying it well takes ages.
-That Falcon pilot is full of crap. I bet I can fly a falcon much better - oh no, it takes yet more time to train.
-Damn, I wish I had an Ishtar so I could solo this plex easily - takes ages to train it.
-Oh how useful a Loki flying alt would be in a wormhole, with all its enhanced probing ability, cov-ops cloak, interdiction nullifier and long-range tractor beams for salvaging the sleepers...
-Or an Abaddon for POS bashing so I don't need to come and push the fire button every 12 minutes after reload - or better yet a freaking Dreadnought so it could be done a lot faster? Oh joy, lets wait some more!
-Hulk for efficient mining, Freighter to help moving s*** around etc...
I ask you again: You tell me why I feel like this. And even if you do have an explanation, does that make me like this game more?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I guess its 8 months in now and I'm anxious to find another MMO to play. Gosh, I'm playing around with the thought of trying out Darkfall or WoW...
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I'll take a stab at this one.
You more than simpley don't like the game you have such a dislike for it you want to bash it for the exact same faults Eve has along with every other mmo out there but you won't take the time to find what in the game is done right and what does make it better than every thing else out there because you are lazy and would rather cry than find out why you are in fact wrong.
Does this make you like the game more ? I highly doubt it, your mind was made up a long time ago and by the tone of your post you will not change your mind or look to see why you are wrong because of pride.
There are no "levels". You can access 90% of the game right out the door. The fun comes from playing with friends and being in corporations. Because all of the stats mainly come from what you actually equip to your ship and not from your skills (primarily, but skills do help a lot) ti allows for a lot of experimenting and some of the things that can go down are epic.
I remember a few years ago, the fastest ship I had ever flown went 400+m/s, but the first time I put a microwarp drive on one of my ships (it makes your ship go faster) I was blown away. My ship went 2.5km/s. That's 5 TIMES as fast as the one I had flown previously. It's little "aha" moments like these that stand out. Also giant 500vs500 fleet battles when you join a big corp don't hurt either. You shape the world by changing the market (that is player-driven) or dominating solar systems (with your corporation) or even just forming a raiding pirate party and destroying extremely valuable ships that players spent months getting. There is something for everyone. Even mathematicians. Don't see that demographic catered to too often.
But if you so desire, you can just copy other people's designs and carve your own little path. When I can hop into a frigate (a very small ship that anyone just starting out can fly the best of in a week or so) and take out a battleship (a rather large ship) with the help of one or two friends, that is a fun game.
It's not about adding content as you progress, it's about mastering the content given to you from the start. And that's hard enough.
Out of touch maybe,
You said in your previous post, “Atleast among the gamers I know, the more they have played games, the less likely they like Eve.”
I was simply continuing this line of thought, and really believed I was just agreeing with part of your post. I don’t think the idea that many people play fantasy theme park games, and that when these people come to EVE’s sandbox, they must change their mindset, is controversial or deniable.
Many never do and don’t like the game; some don’t like it for other reasons. Many people, however, soon learn that EVE is about the people you interact with, and the risk you take together and they learn to appreciate the depth of options that are provided. They like for example that you can be in a null sec battle one day, and in a high sec mission gang the next. You can be a scout, a damage dealer, or a hauler, all in the same day and all of these things are contributing (and vitality needed) to the success of your group.
It’s not about playing pre-developed content for your own character. It’s about using the tools provided to work together in a game world filled with risk, cruelty, and options. There is a long line of people that get and love it for what it is, and have found a way to make it work for them. I’m sorry you’re not one of them.
Personally, I would say you are so caught up on the things you think you can’t do, that you fail to see the many you can. Because the truth is SP will not change that in this game. If you’re finding reasons you can’t do things at 5 mil, you will at 10, 20 and all the way up the latter.
The idea you have to fly special ships to have fun is just silly. If you can’t make T1 fun you wont have fun in T2 either. Just plain fact.
It’s not about the things your character can do; it’s about what you as a person can do with others in a dynamic game world.
There are many options out there if you are able to think outside the box and make it happen, and you can literally do this over and over again in this game. (And yes this exactly what I do, when I find a situation I don’t like, I think and I change the situation) No other game has ever given me that ability for so long.
Maybe it's your mindset, maybe not. The only point I was making, was if you come from a theme park background, you will have to change your views on what a game should be if you want to have fun in this sandbox, and I stand by that statement.
Thank god everything isn't following WOW's little circus!
All of you have wonderful "explanations" of why EVE is a game you really enjoy, but seriously...to assume others DON'T because they like themepark games is....kind of silly.
I actually like a lot of different styles of games. And I love sandbox and sandboxy games. Some of the things you said, can also be said about Fallen Earth, and I'm VERY fond of that game. A lot of people don't "get" Fallen Earth either, so I can relate to you feeling like people just don't "get it."
I sincerely think my BIGGEST problem with EVE, is pure and simple....I don't dig outer space. It's not somewhere I've ever fantasized about living, it's not interesting to me, I'm not a big fan of science fiction or Star Wars, or Star Trek, or really ANY thing having to do with space. But nonetheless....I played EVE for a few months, because I had heard SO much about the sandbox elements and training and it just sounded compelling to me. I thought I could "overlook" the outerspace environment. But....I couldn't.
What I liked MOST was the complexity of it! I loved figuring out my path of training to get my HULK and I enjoyed taking out insurance on all of my ships (I only had 4, counting the newb ship), and I enjoyed the process of making a lot of isk selling my ores to the highest paying stations and people and hunting down that bargain training and traveling to go pick up books or to sell ore where it paid the most, etc. THOSE THINGS were really enjoyable to me. But at the end of the day....I still couldn't get into "zone" after "zone" of differently colored and shaded vapors and planets....it just seemed so....BLAND to me, as far as a "world" to live in. Blah.
So I truly think my biggest hang up....is really just space itself, probably even more than the lack of a visible character. And to be entirely honest....I knew that I wasn't going to get into the PvP end of things before I even started playing. I kind of invisioned myself being more a part of a corp that makes a lot of isk SELLING to PvP'ers (and I was). But still....I'm just NOT a space girl! lol I know that sounds nutty, but....I don't think the game play itself, or the complexity (which I actually liked, just like I like it in Fallen Earth) were the issues. I just can't seem to really GROOVE ON floating around in space.
I feel like I should apologize for not being a big fan of the game.
I certainly didn't hate it. I have some fond memories from it, from going on mining missions with my corp and having them "protect" lil' ol' me in my big honkin' mining barges....there were some fun times in that. I just never felt really "immersed" in it all.
I can't say ENOUGH how I really think that EVE is a great game, BUT.....some people just truthfully will NOT like it simply because it's not a gaming ENVIRONMENT that "flips their switch." I think I was just one of those folks, is all.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club