You make way too much assumptions on what the term MMO should mean, as it has come to gather so many games around the term and you could go on forever argueing why you are right and the rest is wrong, I think this debate is simply useless.
You must at least agree that a MMO is a virtual world, persistantly online, with hundreds of people.
Before i continue, will you agree with this definition?
That definition applies to BFBC2, MW2, guild wars, and D2 just as much as WOW. Funny thing is all these people saying wow is a full fledged mmo would tar and feather your mom for suggesting that D2 is just as much a mmo as wow is. The fact is that WOW is more like D2 than a full-fledged mmo. Sure, wow has seamless land (which of course is useless once you've leveled there), but your leveling and end game consists of nearly the same exact elements, although admittedly much more up to date than D2's end-game (and imo not nearly as fun due to bop).
Are you crazy? MW2 and Battlefield have only temporary servers, not persistant. My definition stated PERSISTANTLY ONLINE, you know what that means, man? And those games surely don't have "hundreds of people", they have caps, somewhere around 80.
I can enjoy myself doing something "fun" but knowing i can have more, because im not blind unlike these people here, i go search for more. While, yes, these people have stopped searching, they "have fun", that's enuff. That's what being pigs swimming in shit is all about.
What's this pig analogy about, anyway? Pigs don't roll around in the mud because it's "fun", but because they don't have functional sweat glands. If they stop, they will *die*. I'm not quite sure what they do for "fun", but I hear they're real fond of food and alcohol and messing about with members of the opposite sex.
Games like Wow are MMO's not MMORPG's. MMORPG's are about freedom, customization, challenge and creating your own world. Most post 2005 games are a linear MMO with a destinated route to go, handholded by doing stupid questgrind over and over again till you're hitting max level.
yup damm those massivley multiplayer onlines, there just awful, oh no wait there all MMORPGs whether you personally like them or not, apparently you need to learn what rpg stands for, heres a hint, it doesnt stand for world building.
No they aren't. I doesn't matter if I like them or not there IS a difference between MMO's and MMORPG's maybe you'll understand it that way:
MMORPG's: EvE, Darkfall, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest 1, Utlima Online, Lineage, FF VI, Vanguard
MMO's: World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online, Lord of the Rings, Aion (great game), Tabula Rasa, Hellgate London.
MMOIG's (multi massive online instanced games): Age of Conan, Star Trek Online, Champions Online
Again, just ebcause you dont like it doesnt suddenly change its genre, its an mmorpg, get over it, mmo isnt a genre, its short for MMORPG, always has been.
massivley multiplayer online isnt a genre, sad that i need to keep saying this.
Well you obviously need to read more carefully. It doesn't matter if I like it or not. MMO is a genre so is MMORPG and theres a big difference between both wheter you admit it or nit its excisting.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I can enjoy myself doing something "fun" but knowing i can have more, because im not blind unlike these people here, i go search for more. While, yes, these people have stopped searching, they "have fun", that's enuff. That's what being pigs swimming in shit is all about.
What's this pig analogy about, anyway? Pigs don't roll around in the mud because it's "fun", but because they don't have functional sweat glands. If they stop, they will *die*. I'm not quite sure what they do for "fun", but I hear they're real fond of food and alcohol and messing about with members of the opposite sex.
sure. And that fits the current condition of these people. They have fun, that's enuff, they stop wondering whether there's something better.
The guy said it's bad to ask for more, fun is good enuff, fun blinds you and makes you anti-social, and makes it appear bad to ask for more.
it's bad to ask for more. Fun is a happy bliss from the harshness of the world and suffering.
Stop thinking, just have simple fun. And this is good according to the poster.
I think that's how the powerful keep us from the revolution, because they tell us simple fun is good enuff.
Dude, just admit you were smoking crack when you made this OP and we'll be good.
Nobody died and made YOU the definer of MMO's.
Call WoW a bad MMO for any number of reasons. Call any other a GREAT MMO for any number of reasons. But STOP TRYING TO PRETEND YOU GET TO DEFINE WHAT IS AN MMO AND WHAT ISN'T.
WoW meets any REASONABLE persons views of what an MMO is. A persistant world? yep. The ability to interact with hundreds if not thousands of other players? yep. That's only the beginning of its "qualifications". But clearly, it is an MMO.
Good? Bad? It's the one with the subs. Get over it. Play the game you like and be happy.
What does it persist?
Yes, that is right, exactly the same as Battlefield 2 or Call of Duty: Character progression.
How many ppl do you REALLY interact with? I agree, there could be 200 ppl in Elwynn Forest, but there isn't. It is a gameplay wasteland once you reach level 11. And that is how the entire open world is: Wasteland as soon as you have been through it. You will never need it again. What good is a potentially open world if you do not support it with gameplay? Isn't the endresult the same? That it is never being used?
This used to be worlds, now they are mere games, comparable to simple FPS games.
it is all like you say,but yet even as bad as it is,it still fall in the mmo category!i sure wont be playing it!i played massivelly in original wow and it was my kind of mmo.today ill play a f2p instead (at least i wont feel cheated price wise)hell they might even sell item i will want to buy!
You make way too much assumptions on what the term MMO should mean, as it has come to gather so many games around the term and you could go on forever argueing why you are right and the rest is wrong, I think this debate is simply useless.
You must at least agree that a MMO is a virtual world, persistantly online, with hundreds of people.
Before i continue, will you agree with this definition?
That definition applies to BFBC2, MW2, guild wars, and D2 just as much as WOW. Funny thing is all these people saying wow is a full fledged mmo would tar and feather your mom for suggesting that D2 is just as much a mmo as wow is. The fact is that WOW is more like D2 than a full-fledged mmo. Sure, wow has seamless land (which of course is useless once you've leveled there), but your leveling and end game consists of nearly the same exact elements, although admittedly much more up to date than D2's end-game (and imo not nearly as fun due to bop).
Are you crazy? MW2 and Battlefield have only temporary servers, not persistant. My definition stated PERSISTANTLY ONLINE, you know what that means, man? And those games surely don't have "hundreds of people", they have caps, somewhere around 80.
Perhaps you should do a better job defining your version of persistent. Those games have persistent character progression, there's nothing temporary about that. Now if you're instead talking about a seamless world perhaps you should express it as such, but a seamless world is NOT persistent progression.
I know, I know, ridiculous claim, but hear me out. In the raw sense of the term "MMORPG", yes WoW and its ilk fall into that category.
But where the glaring difference comes in, is in the ideals of what an MMO should be. MMOs, since their inception have really been pushing the boundaries with gameplay and bridging the gap between player and developer. These worlds, embodied in these games, exist to be conquered by the playerbase. It started with adventuring together in groups, to solving puzzles together, defeating bosses together. Then comes along crafting, social scheduling, interaction with different groups (guild politics), and PvP.
Every new game, every different feature is pushing this genre forward by giving the player more power, more custimization, more individuality among different game types.
An MMORPG is a game that exists solely as a world for players to shape. Player interaction between themselves, the game world, and each other are integral to what makes an MMO an MMO.
Games like WoW and other PVE focused games are infantile MMOs, not TRUE MMOs. The sandbox games are the closest. Games like EVE, Darkfall, Wurm, Love, etc. allow the players to change the course of the game. Individuals, not developers. YES there can be story in a sandbox, WHY is there no hybrid MMO. With EVE's reintroduction to live events putting more steps into advancing stories depending on player input, we are taking mosre steps to advance the culture of MMOs and player involvement.
This is what makes an MMO an MMO, the players with the power.
Hey? Shut up.
But in all seriousness, you are completely wrong and i'm not gona bother pointing out where everyone already saw it. And i don't even like WoW.
People settling on something and considering it fun enuff to NEVER want anything more than that.
Exactly what's the problem with many here, no? They think what WoW gives is the most they can ever have, so they stopped searching, and "just have fun".
Well certainly *to you* that's their problem... but you don't know that. You can't know that. You're doing what's called projection - taking a view you have and applying it to others. Problem is, you're projecting on to people whose rationales, opinions and sense of enjoyment you can't possibly know. And you have no basis, other than your own "hunch" to back any of it up. It's pure unmitigated presumption.
To put it another way...
Have you done any kind of survey actually *asking* a portion of players if they truly enjoy WoW? Have you *asked* them if they believe there are better games for them (not you) out there, in their opinion (not yours) than WoW? Have you *asked* them if they stick with WoW even though they believe there's something better out there? Have you *asked* them why they do so? It could be because they have a lot of friends who play WoW and the enjoyment they have comes from hanging out with those friends. Short of having done something of a survey, covering all bases, you can not possibly know why people are still playing WoW or what their views of it are, or why they are still playing it.
What you are putting forth here is complete unmitigated and unsupported presumption.
YEs that's what i meant and it's bad. Someone has to wake them up, make em realize they can have more off a MMO.
Well now... That's a tad arrogant, isn't it. Someone has to "wake them up"? To what? The fact that they don't share your opinions of a given game which you seem to believe everyone else is obligated to agree with, or they're somehow "asleep"? Get over yourself.
I can enjoy myself doing something "fun" but knowing i can have more, because im not blind unlike these people here, i go search for more. While, yes, these people have stopped searching, they "have fun", that's enuff.
So now they're "blind" because they - according to your baseless generalizations of them - don't fit into this mindset that you've decided to project on them. So you're presumptious, arrogant *and* insulting. Nice combo.
Thank you.
That must mean im God. Because when you give pigs conscience, when you give em evolution, when you give em feelings, you automatically make them see how stupid they were, you make em realize their inferiority, you offend them, in a way.
I agree with the WoW statement. I stopped calling it a MMORPG a while ago. It's a MMO Action Game as far as I'm concerned, as they've removed or otherwise demoted anything 'RPG' in it.
That's neither good nor bad... it just is. People enjoy the game and so it's delivering on what they want. I enjoy it when I'm in that "mode". But, for me, it lacks too much of what would make it a true RPG - to me - for me to call it one.
That's exactly what I been getting at on the first page. What's it matter what it really is called? Changing the "genre" that people want to confine it within isn't going to change what WoW actually is. Ultimately, its a game, for other people's entertainment. The genre just loosely defines the category that it does belong to, but just because we choose to stop calling it an RPG and start calling it an Action Game doesn't mean the game is all of a sudden going to work differently.
I think people are just too hung up on the semantics and "ideals" of it all when in the end, WoW is a game for many to enjoy all at once.
Many people feel the need to inflate their opinions as being something more meaningful than they are... and not only games. So they'll attempt to "define" the given topic they're discussing... It could be movies by a certain movie-maker, books by a certain author, games, music... anything. Many people don't seem secure in simply having an opinion, but need to feel that their opinion is "right". So... they presume all these variables that support their opinion, project them on everyone else (such as someone else I've debated a little bit with in this thread) and then attempt to hold everyone else to them; applying various labels to them if they don't fit their definition.
A great example you'll see is on Amazon.com, or other sites where people can review a given album.
People will review an album and, time and again, you'll see statements like "This is not a true "band here" album. Any true fan of "band here" would agree and if you think it's good, then you are not a true fan".
That's a paraphrase - almost a boiler plate - of what many of them say. It's, of course presumptuos and silly... but all too common. The same mentality applies here with MMORPGs.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You make way too much assumptions on what the term MMO should mean, as it has come to gather so many games around the term and you could go on forever argueing why you are right and the rest is wrong, I think this debate is simply useless.
You do have a point. The debate should be: What is a MMORPG?
Once we agree on that we can discuss if Wow is one or not. But it is pointless as long as everyone have different opinions on what a MMO really is.
mm!i got to say your point is one we forgot to honestly debate!
WHAT IS A MMO!not sure a tread should be started tho because i bet it will be in the 100 quick lol!
While I do think some online games do not really meet the classic definintion of MMORPG (STO, GW's etc) I'll have to disagree with the OP as WOW does in fact meet the defintion as it is commonly understood.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Games like Wow are MMO's not MMORPG's. MMORPG's are about freedom, customization, challenge and creating your own world. Most post 2005 games are a linear MMO with a destinated route to go, overusing of instances, handholded by doing stupid questgrind over and over again till you're hitting max level.
MMORPG's on the other hand are about the journey from day one! Take Darkfall I'm having a blast since day 1 I can participate in everything sure you'll get hammered in no time but the ability is there also we - the players - are able to make our own content with own politics. You can't do this in a linear MMO. Looking back at Everquest 1 there was no destinated route to go only a huge world filled with different mobs not knowing the exact level and no freaking minimap and type markers you had to draw one by your own.
Pre 2005 there has been a good amount of games having the right formula between "sandbox and themepark style" Daoc, Everquest 1, FF VI, Asherons Call.
conclusion: we need more MMORPG's less MMO's. Note I'm not saying people that likes MMO's are wrong its just theres are huge difference between MMORPG's and MMO's and the gap has never ever been bigger than nowadays.
i dont know some of the game but overall i agree with your post!
While I do think some online games do not really meet the classic definintion of MMORPG (STO, GW's etc) I'll have to disagree with the OP as WOW does in fact meet the defintion as it is commonly understood.
true -- but it does appear wow is skirting closer and closer to that line between true MMO as we know them to be and the heavily instanced cousins that are games like GW and STO.
I agree with the WoW statement. I stopped calling it a MMORPG a while ago. It's a MMO Action Game as far as I'm concerned, as they've removed or otherwise demoted anything 'RPG' in it.
That's neither good nor bad... it just is. People enjoy the game and so it's delivering on what they want. I enjoy it when I'm in that "mode". But, for me, it lacks too much of what would make it a true RPG - to me - for me to call it one.
That's exactly what I been getting at on the first page. What's it matter what it really is called? Changing the "genre" that people want to confine it within isn't going to change what WoW actually is. Ultimately, its a game, for other people's entertainment. The genre just loosely defines the category that it does belong to, but just because we choose to stop calling it an RPG and start calling it an Action Game doesn't mean the game is all of a sudden going to work differently.
I think people are just too hung up on the semantics and "ideals" of it all when in the end, WoW is a game for many to enjoy all at once.
Many people feel the need to inflate their opinions as being something more meaningful than they are... and not only games. So they'll attempt to "define" the given topic they're discussing... It could be movies by a certain movie-maker, books by a certain author, games, music... anything. Many people don't seem secure in simply having an opinion, but need to feel that their opinion is "right". So... they presume all these variables that support their opinion, project them on everyone else (such as someone else I've debated a little bit with in this thread) and then attempt to hold everyone else to them; applying various labels to them if they don't fit their definition.
A great example you'll see is on Amazon.com, or other sites where people can review a given album.
People will review an album and, time and again, you'll see statements like "This is not a true "band here" album. Any true fan of "band here" would agree and if you think it's good, then you are not a true fan".
That's a paraphrase - almost a boiler plate - of what many of them say. It's, of course presumptuos and silly... but all too common. The same mentality applies here with MMORPGs.
True points, however when MMORPG is such a broad definition for so many different gameplay elements, such discussions are a given. Classical is usually classical, rock is usually rock, with perhaps some minor variations; but a sandbox sure as heck isn't a linear theme park, yet they're both supposedly mmos. The bottom line is that the line has blurred greatly in the past five years about what is a mmo and what isnt, and that's guaranteed to fuel discussions such as this.
While I do think some online games do not really meet the classic definintion of MMORPG (STO, GW's etc) I'll have to disagree with the OP as WOW does in fact meet the defintion as it is commonly understood.
Yet wow only meets that classification just enough so they can charge the $15/month fee. Ultimately, the standard definition of a mmo has just one specific factor to make a game a mmo over a ARPG or a CORPG, and that one specfic definition is over fifty players able to congregate in one place. In today's mmo genre that one specific aspect is nearly meaningless to gameplay, as you can have a persistent world that's all instanced that could technically be just as compelling as a mmo yet not classified as such because of that one single element. I'd hope that we're all mature enough to recognize that arguing over this one nearly meaningless clarification is a worthless argument nowadays.
Blizzard is a master of illusion. They've convinced people that just because they see other people when they play means they're playing a mmo, but really it's just window dressing. You could package instance wow just like Diablo 2 and it would be nearly the same exact game it is now, you just wouldn't have to deal with Ironforge lag or travel time.
While I do think some online games do not really meet the classic definintion of MMORPG (STO, GW's etc) I'll have to disagree with the OP as WOW does in fact meet the defintion as it is commonly understood.
Yet wow only meets that classification just enough so they can charge the $15/month fee. Ultimately, the standard definition of a mmo has just one specific factor to make a game a mmo over a ARPG or a CORPG, and that one specfic definition is over fifty players able to congregate in one place. In today's mmo genre that one specific aspect is nearly meaningless to gameplay, as you can have a persistent world that's all instanced that could technically be just as compelling as a mmo yet not classified as such because of that one single element. I'd hope that we're all mature enough to recognize that arguing over this one nearly meaningless clarification is a worthless argument nowadays.
just because WOW has more subs doesn't make the game better, just means more people play it , alot of MMO'r or RTS, FPS , etc are harder to play or catch a certain person's eye.
I played WOW for 4yrs and I can tell you this what made WOW so popular was one it was so darn easy to level, that my 8yr old could play it and my 70yr old mom knew how to raid.. But the fact is games like old school asheron call and UO etc MMo 's where not as well known back then, they didn't advertise OZZY and MR T and such all over the darn place that is what made WOW huge ..
They also had a name already because of star craft, dibalo and warcraft series.. but this being said MMO's where not huge , and when WOW came out advertising like they did was a bonus for them, because any age could play it.. the game was so darn easy and the game now a days hold your hand , and I don;t care what anyways says, not here to bash it in anyways as I played it..
Just proven a point ,my nephew and mother who is old will play WOW .. I ask them why they still play over games like fallen earth , AOC, and others examples of games, soon as they seen FE, AOC, STO, they tell me to much going on to understand etc, plus WOW has addons that show me how to do this and that..
My 8yr old could beat people with my level 80 char all the time in PVP so called PVP. I don;t see him doing this with other games he has no idea how to play any of them but by spamming keys in wow with my good gear he wins and likes it.. I laugh my @ss off at this..
So again this is one of the major reasons why its still so popular you can agree or disagree, do not get me wrong WOW was a great game but personally people have ruined it for me and the way it is way to easy now even more...
WOW will continue to be the top MMO for the reasons I said all of the reasons.. i'm sure there is a few of others but that is the blunt of it.
I loved to see people play WOW with zero addons , I doubt there is many or any healers that do not use an addon..
I personally hate games with them , this si why I enjoy FE , you do not need them, AOC has a few but not needed as i'm a healer. STO do to need them. Champions online doesn't need them, Yes you can bash the games I pointed out but I enjoy these games for these reasons and I have played nearly every P2P MMO on the market and I can tell you every game has its flaws.. but I enjoy different ones for different reasons. as why alot of people like WOW for the easy mode.
Yes there is some hardcore raiding in WOW as I have done it but , its not that hard, what is hard is to get 20 people to do what needs to be done and listen and thats what I always hated about WOW how it takes one nub and the whole raid fails..
I like to do a quest like asheron call where there was no hand holding, no ?? or !! or red marks , and marks, you can to talk to an NPC for rumors to figure out , on how to quest etc and in the end everyone got something, there was no fighting and people being greedy and people stabbing one another in the back ,nor rage quit guild etc over loot.,
AC , UO days of questing , PVP need to come back, this is what I don;t understand about game companys , they amke games ot take your money and run, not to make a good game . that you will play for years and years.
AC I played for 7 plus yrs, yet to find a game where that will happen again.
i got to say add-on is also one major contributor !and often wow take some idea from it!the map thingy!that wasnt there before!i dont mind it i really dont!but blizzard should copy some of eq feature for once
CLASSIC LIVE MMO event!once a month! that would be nice!
anything you can think of could be there randomly generated and whats not.but no help of anykind like no coord ,no addon no minimap etc just plain barebone wow stripped to the max !
Why do you guys over complicate things that are extremely simple?
An MMO, as we uhm agreed, is a persistantly online virtual world with hundreds of people.
In WoW, and all its clones(so every other AAA MMO out there), there's a story-line you follow and play by yourself, without the actual need of anyone to do it with you. Quests refer to YOU as single person, they don't call on people, NOT ONCE.
This reason suffices to say WoW is not a real MMO.
It's NOT opinion! And it doesn't need overcomplications.
What can we add to this? That in an MMO what you do affects in someway the whole community and the community affects you. In a game like Mortal Online you do things interacting with the WHOLE world and its population. Because for example a metal extractor works to get steel based on the global demand of it. And sets a price based on that. This is interaction with the whole world. You interact with everyone.
In WoW you never do it, you just follow your solitary selfish greed for equipment and power. You're anti-social, you don't play with others. So how CAN IT BE called massive multiplayer? It's a contradiction!
Comments
Are you crazy? MW2 and Battlefield have only temporary servers, not persistant. My definition stated PERSISTANTLY ONLINE, you know what that means, man? And those games surely don't have "hundreds of people", they have caps, somewhere around 80.
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What's this pig analogy about, anyway? Pigs don't roll around in the mud because it's "fun", but because they don't have functional sweat glands. If they stop, they will *die*. I'm not quite sure what they do for "fun", but I hear they're real fond of food and alcohol and messing about with members of the opposite sex.
Well you obviously need to read more carefully. It doesn't matter if I like it or not. MMO is a genre so is MMORPG and theres a big difference between both wheter you admit it or nit its excisting.
If you still don't get it I highly recommend you the following article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
sure. And that fits the current condition of these people. They have fun, that's enuff, they stop wondering whether there's something better.
The guy said it's bad to ask for more, fun is good enuff, fun blinds you and makes you anti-social, and makes it appear bad to ask for more.
it's bad to ask for more. Fun is a happy bliss from the harshness of the world and suffering.
Stop thinking, just have simple fun. And this is good according to the poster.
I think that's how the powerful keep us from the revolution, because they tell us simple fun is good enuff.
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it is all like you say,but yet even as bad as it is,it still fall in the mmo category!i sure wont be playing it!i played massivelly in original wow and it was my kind of mmo.today ill play a f2p instead (at least i wont feel cheated price wise)hell they might even sell item i will want to buy!
Perhaps you should do a better job defining your version of persistent. Those games have persistent character progression, there's nothing temporary about that. Now if you're instead talking about a seamless world perhaps you should express it as such, but a seamless world is NOT persistent progression.
Hey? Shut up.
But in all seriousness, you are completely wrong and i'm not gona bother pointing out where everyone already saw it. And i don't even like WoW.
Thanks for your classy response. You've certainly put an end to this debate with your logical point of view...
Thank you.
That must mean im God. Because when you give pigs conscience, when you give em evolution, when you give em feelings, you automatically make them see how stupid they were, you make em realize their inferiority, you offend them, in a way.
But it's the truth.
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Many people feel the need to inflate their opinions as being something more meaningful than they are... and not only games. So they'll attempt to "define" the given topic they're discussing... It could be movies by a certain movie-maker, books by a certain author, games, music... anything. Many people don't seem secure in simply having an opinion, but need to feel that their opinion is "right". So... they presume all these variables that support their opinion, project them on everyone else (such as someone else I've debated a little bit with in this thread) and then attempt to hold everyone else to them; applying various labels to them if they don't fit their definition.
A great example you'll see is on Amazon.com, or other sites where people can review a given album.
People will review an album and, time and again, you'll see statements like "This is not a true "band here" album. Any true fan of "band here" would agree and if you think it's good, then you are not a true fan".
That's a paraphrase - almost a boiler plate - of what many of them say. It's, of course presumptuos and silly... but all too common. The same mentality applies here with MMORPGs.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Oi, we're 12 pages in on this topic again? WoW haters: "Not an MMO" WoW fanbois: "Is too!"
Rest of us . . . /facepalm
mm!i got to say your point is one we forgot to honestly debate!
WHAT IS A MMO!not sure a tread should be started tho because i bet it will be in the 100 quick lol!
While I do think some online games do not really meet the classic definintion of MMORPG (STO, GW's etc) I'll have to disagree with the OP as WOW does in fact meet the defintion as it is commonly understood.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
wow is an MMORPG. It is absolute trash, IMO -- but its an MMORPG.
i dont know some of the game but overall i agree with your post!
ignore the other guild wars poster lol since on this mather arenanet call guild wars a corpg.
true -- but it does appear wow is skirting closer and closer to that line between true MMO as we know them to be and the heavily instanced cousins that are games like GW and STO.
True points, however when MMORPG is such a broad definition for so many different gameplay elements, such discussions are a given. Classical is usually classical, rock is usually rock, with perhaps some minor variations; but a sandbox sure as heck isn't a linear theme park, yet they're both supposedly mmos. The bottom line is that the line has blurred greatly in the past five years about what is a mmo and what isnt, and that's guaranteed to fuel discussions such as this.
sad but true!it used to be good tho but wow got lost at bc lunch!
Yet wow only meets that classification just enough so they can charge the $15/month fee. Ultimately, the standard definition of a mmo has just one specific factor to make a game a mmo over a ARPG or a CORPG, and that one specfic definition is over fifty players able to congregate in one place. In today's mmo genre that one specific aspect is nearly meaningless to gameplay, as you can have a persistent world that's all instanced that could technically be just as compelling as a mmo yet not classified as such because of that one single element. I'd hope that we're all mature enough to recognize that arguing over this one nearly meaningless clarification is a worthless argument nowadays.
Blizzard is a master of illusion. They've convinced people that just because they see other people when they play means they're playing a mmo, but really it's just window dressing. You could package instance wow just like Diablo 2 and it would be nearly the same exact game it is now, you just wouldn't have to deal with Ironforge lag or travel time.
mirpg
massivelly instanced role playing game
just because WOW has more subs doesn't make the game better, just means more people play it , alot of MMO'r or RTS, FPS , etc are harder to play or catch a certain person's eye.
I played WOW for 4yrs and I can tell you this what made WOW so popular was one it was so darn easy to level, that my 8yr old could play it and my 70yr old mom knew how to raid.. But the fact is games like old school asheron call and UO etc MMo 's where not as well known back then, they didn't advertise OZZY and MR T and such all over the darn place that is what made WOW huge ..
They also had a name already because of star craft, dibalo and warcraft series.. but this being said MMO's where not huge , and when WOW came out advertising like they did was a bonus for them, because any age could play it.. the game was so darn easy and the game now a days hold your hand , and I don;t care what anyways says, not here to bash it in anyways as I played it..
Just proven a point ,my nephew and mother who is old will play WOW .. I ask them why they still play over games like fallen earth , AOC, and others examples of games, soon as they seen FE, AOC, STO, they tell me to much going on to understand etc, plus WOW has addons that show me how to do this and that..
My 8yr old could beat people with my level 80 char all the time in PVP so called PVP. I don;t see him doing this with other games he has no idea how to play any of them but by spamming keys in wow with my good gear he wins and likes it.. I laugh my @ss off at this..
So again this is one of the major reasons why its still so popular you can agree or disagree, do not get me wrong WOW was a great game but personally people have ruined it for me and the way it is way to easy now even more...
WOW will continue to be the top MMO for the reasons I said all of the reasons.. i'm sure there is a few of others but that is the blunt of it.
I loved to see people play WOW with zero addons , I doubt there is many or any healers that do not use an addon..
I personally hate games with them , this si why I enjoy FE , you do not need them, AOC has a few but not needed as i'm a healer. STO do to need them. Champions online doesn't need them, Yes you can bash the games I pointed out but I enjoy these games for these reasons and I have played nearly every P2P MMO on the market and I can tell you every game has its flaws.. but I enjoy different ones for different reasons. as why alot of people like WOW for the easy mode.
Yes there is some hardcore raiding in WOW as I have done it but , its not that hard, what is hard is to get 20 people to do what needs to be done and listen and thats what I always hated about WOW how it takes one nub and the whole raid fails..
I like to do a quest like asheron call where there was no hand holding, no ?? or !! or red marks , and marks, you can to talk to an NPC for rumors to figure out , on how to quest etc and in the end everyone got something, there was no fighting and people being greedy and people stabbing one another in the back ,nor rage quit guild etc over loot.,
AC , UO days of questing , PVP need to come back, this is what I don;t understand about game companys , they amke games ot take your money and run, not to make a good game . that you will play for years and years.
AC I played for 7 plus yrs, yet to find a game where that will happen again.
i got to say add-on is also one major contributor !and often wow take some idea from it!the map thingy!that wasnt there before!i dont mind it i really dont!but blizzard should copy some of eq feature for once
CLASSIC LIVE MMO event!once a month! that would be nice!
anything you can think of could be there randomly generated and whats not.but no help of anykind like no coord ,no addon no minimap etc just plain barebone wow stripped to the max !
Why do you guys over complicate things that are extremely simple?
An MMO, as we uhm agreed, is a persistantly online virtual world with hundreds of people.
In WoW, and all its clones(so every other AAA MMO out there), there's a story-line you follow and play by yourself, without the actual need of anyone to do it with you. Quests refer to YOU as single person, they don't call on people, NOT ONCE.
This reason suffices to say WoW is not a real MMO.
It's NOT opinion! And it doesn't need overcomplications.
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What can we add to this? That in an MMO what you do affects in someway the whole community and the community affects you. In a game like Mortal Online you do things interacting with the WHOLE world and its population. Because for example a metal extractor works to get steel based on the global demand of it. And sets a price based on that. This is interaction with the whole world. You interact with everyone.
In WoW you never do it, you just follow your solitary selfish greed for equipment and power. You're anti-social, you don't play with others. So how CAN IT BE called massive multiplayer? It's a contradiction!
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