I have been told that Blizzard actually allowed and designed a gear score concept into WoW and now will be apart of its core design. That didn’t really surprise me at all.
Completely false.
You are probably thinking about the April Fools Day joke where Blizzard mocked Gearscore.
Blizzard agrees that the player base is abusing the Gearscore mod but there is nothing they can do about it. They could ban Gearscore but people would find other ways to discriminate.
Also, you make it sound like people discriminating others based on simple things is exclusive to WoW. Sorry, but again, you are completely wrong.
So the looking for dungeon tool doesn't descriminate based on gear....oh wait...
Did you ever realise that addition of dungeon tool was fault of the players itself? if groups were so readily avilable and players were not forced to skip content do you think Blizzard would implement such a tool? fact is that people want to experince all of the content and lets be fair, there is no fun in standing at one place and spamming 'lfg' for hours. There was a huge demand for such a tool and Blizzard only gave what players wanted.
Nothing wrong with giving players a chance to experince all of the content. isn't that what we pay a monthly sub for? whats the better option? making all low level content soloable like Turbine did with LOTR or add a dungeon finder tool?
Fault of the players? Or players are being 'forced' (meaning, not deciding, which means there is no fault to be found) to skip content? You're contradicting yourself.
The fault is squarely on Blizzard. Players, in this game, any game, react directly to the mechanics that compose the game. If there is a poor response to an implemented mechanic, review the CAUSE, not the EFFECT.
How, why, and when, did low-level content become obsolete? Did it become nigh impossible to find a group for? Well, Blizzard did this wonderful little thing called 'speed up the path to level cap' back in BC whereby
- All world mobs were now all non-elite
- All quests gave 1/3 more xp
- All mobs had 1/3 less hp
- All mobs had 1/3 less attack.
This made solo'ing, questing in particular, HIGHLY more beneficial than any sort of grouping. Because Blizzard was making a patch solution to another problem in their game: top-heavy population at level cap, with the 'game' 'starting' at level cap.
The demand for such a tool was a demand created by poor mechanic implementation on behalf of Blizzard themselves. Blizzard didn't 'give players what they wanted' so much as they 'fixed a by-product of poor implimentation'... and the core problem remains untouched.
Launching patch solutions to quel effects has proven to be unfruitful. The devs can keep trying to put lipstick on the pig...
How did Blizzard force player to skip a content? if someone wants to power level and hit end game content its their fault or companys fault? only because xp is increased doesn't mean one has to hit cap asap. Its like a double edged sword. if leveling is too slow players moan and if leveling is too fast players still moan. And since when low xp has stopped players from hitting lvl cap within few days? incrased xp just gives incentives to casual gamers who can't spend more then two hours a day on a video game.
if anything the dungeon tool has made lots of content now available to new and old players which they couldn't do because players were too busy power lvling. Its still a lot better option then changing low level content into completely soloable like LOTR. You can't blame unwilligness of players to group up on devs, thats really crazy talk. And this pig with lipstick still looks hundred times more gorgeous then any of your pretty horses.
I for one, hope that newer mmorpgs and current existing ones do not adapt this gear score mechanic at all because it ruins all factors of the qualities of true mmorpg aspects. Futhurmore, gearscore is just mortor to the corner stone of gear which should be not be used to it's degree. Gear in mmorpgs should be only about 25% advantage for players whether it is PVE or PVP. In my own personal opinion to shy away from gear being completely dependent for players “skill level”; is to design a diverse combat system which complements a deep structure class system where players can develop skill by strategy rather than gear. Gear should be a perk to help you progress easier which will balance out most other mechanics later on not a major contributing factor for all progression. Remember, mmorpgs are suppose to be for, community and adventure.
To get back to the OP. I completely agree with this.
I do keep it installed though as together with "recount dps" it shows your "personal performance" now in fights, because you can have a ratio of DPS to GS.
As a matter of fact - for personal use - it lets you measure your performance in PVE fights, it even has a positive influence of your play performance (since you quantify your dps according to your gear). You can deduce which rotations and abilities perform better. But most of the time it just sits there unused.
A better use for recount is damage done, damage received, and activity. DPS can be useless if they only attack for a small portion of the fight. The other statistics of the fight show who is standing in the fire (so to speak) who is being active in the fight, and overall who is participating.
The gearscore mod is a tool that is being made a scapegoat for the problems really. It is just a tool and it is up to people to know how to use the tool. Unfortunately most people use it as the only guide to form groups or raids. And usually they have way higher required gearscores for their raids than is recommended by the actual mod itself.
I have been told that Blizzard actually allowed and designed a gear score concept into WoW and now will be apart of its core design. That didn’t really surprise me at all.
Completely false.
You are probably thinking about the April Fools Day joke where Blizzard mocked Gearscore.
Blizzard agrees that the player base is abusing the Gearscore mod but there is nothing they can do about it. They could ban Gearscore but people would find other ways to discriminate.
Also, you make it sound like people discriminating others based on simple things is exclusive to WoW. Sorry, but again, you are completely wrong.
So the looking for dungeon tool doesn't descriminate based on gear....oh wait...
There are gear requirements for entering ToC and ICC 5man heroics through the LFD but they are fairly low. Only Halls of Reflection has a requirement that requires seriosu gearing up. The others can be entered in a mix of blues and ilevel 20 epics. Way lower than any GS addon requirement.
Just resub to WOW again today after a year off and i cannot believe how bad it is right now. Gear Score is all you see in trade chat. And from what i can see 5k is the bare minimum to do anything. I downloaded gear score to see what my 2 level 80 score was at and they were both at 3k. So to have any chance to be invited to do ANYTHING meaningful i'll had somehow manage to get 2000 more rating !
And if you asking if Blizzard care about Gear Score, well this post looks like they do care, to keep it ......
gearscore is a good add on and will be here to stay and probly put into most mmo's, If you put a little effort into your toon using the random dungeon finder or crafted stuff moving your 3k gearscore toon to 5k will happen in no time , any one under 5k gearscore shows they dont put time and effort into there toon and want free hands outs and wont pull enough dps pass the first 4 boss in icc . 4700 or so can handle the first 4 bosses but that gets old fast only doing that every week. tho sometimes when i know im only doing first 4 boss i will take a 4700.
Work on your toons !!
Edited to add , also when i look for 2 dps to fill a raid or so i will get 7-10 tells and if i dont know any of them i will look at what class spec will help my raid than i look at gearscore , im going to take a MM hunter with 5200 gs over a mm hunter with 4600 its common sense.
I played WoW for 4 years. I worked to get the best gear in order to compete and to get into some of the best guilds out there. My mage was in a top 200 world guild and my pally in a top 25 world guild. I'm an elitist prick. Never once did I use gearscore. You'll find (atleast from my experience) that the better guilds don't discriminate as much as the "average" guilds, simply because they're just trying to get done asap or carry guild alts.
As a whole Wow's community has hit rock bottom. Bads calling other players bad is never much fun.
I was thinking about coming back to WoW but after reading this... no way in hell! Seems like the notion of just having fun is totally gone. Well its was kinda gone when I left a year ago but it sure hasnt gotten any better.
I give every dungeon at least one wipe before leaving. This applies to my tank and other toons as well. If we do wipe, I evaluate how we did. Taking Halls of Reflection as the popular example, if we wipe before defeating the first boss, I'm out. If we wipe on the hardest/final waves, I'll give it another try and reevaluate the situation (kick as needed, etc.).
As much as I might not need items from the dungeons, I try to keep in mind that I'm here to play the game with other people as well and the dungeon could provide some big boosts to them. At the same time I'm not here to completely waste my time for people who are super behind in gear and hopefully they understand that.
Blizzard employees don't want to play with undergeared players so it's not hard to imagine WoW players having this mentality.
Cataclysm is WoW's savior in my opinion. WoW definately went way down hill since vanilla which is why I stopped playing but gear will no longer be such a large factor as every class is pretty much getting an entirely new paint job. Honestly, look up the patch notes, it'll make you happy. Can't wait!
It's cute to blame Blizzard for bad game design when the problem existed prior to the release of WoW.
Ever tried to get into a raiding guild in Everquest? You had to have a 'Magelo' profile.
Guess what it showed? Your gear and your AA points (spec).
Gearscore is just a simplified formula for doing something that players have been doing in MMOs for a lot longer than Blizzard have even been in the market. It has nothing to do with Blizzard and nothing to do with WoW and everything to do with the way the MMO community views progression.
Oh and Eve uses 'skillpoints' to do much the same thing. That community isn't any more immune than the others.
gearscore is a good add on and will be here to stay and probly put into most mmo's, If you put a little effort into your toon using the random dungeon finder or crafted stuff moving your 3k gearscore toon to 5k will happen in no time , any one under 5k gearscore shows they dont put time and effort into there toon and want free hands outs and wont pull enough dps pass the first 4 boss in icc . 4700 or so can handle the first 4 bosses but that gets old fast only doing that every week. tho sometimes when i know im only doing first 4 boss i will take a 4700.
Oh and Eve uses 'skillpoints' to do much the same thing. That community isn't any more immune than the others.
Skill points gain overtime (passively), very different from items in WoW that are obtained after a player reaches max level cap and is forced to farm over and over again to gain access to content.
The community in Eve does not enforce a skill point req to the level of what WoW players do in Blizzards game.
Honestly to even bring up Eve in the conversation is moronic. Skill points in Eve are closer to levels in WoW, Gearscore is totally different.
gearscore is a good add on and will be here to stay and probly put into most mmo's, If you put a little effort into your toon using the random dungeon finder or crafted stuff moving your 3k gearscore toon to 5k will happen in no time , any one under 5k gearscore shows they dont put time and effort into there toon and want free hands outs and wont pull enough dps pass the first 4 boss in icc . 4700 or so can handle the first 4 bosses but that gets old fast only doing that every week. tho sometimes when i know im only doing first 4 boss i will take a 4700.
Work on your toons !!
Grind boy, Grind!
Thanks for describing every mmo on the market hahaa
gearscore is a good add on and will be here to stay and probly put into most mmo's, If you put a little effort into your toon using the random dungeon finder or crafted stuff moving your 3k gearscore toon to 5k will happen in no time , any one under 5k gearscore shows they dont put time and effort into there toon and want free hands outs and wont pull enough dps pass the first 4 boss in icc . 4700 or so can handle the first 4 bosses but that gets old fast only doing that every week. tho sometimes when i know im only doing first 4 boss i will take a 4700.
Work on your toons !!
Grind boy, Grind!
It takes around 20 hours of play at level 80 to get 5k GS (which is more than enough for any 5 man encounter, and will get you started raiding wise), if this is grinding, well, have it your way.
The people that choose to raid are looking for achievements and trophies in any game. While the gear based progression WoW has is not perfect, it does work for this particular game.
Endgame in LotR, WAR or Aion has a similar 'grinding' component.
I don't mind using addons to measure my own progress. I must have quit again before GS became prevalent. Honestly, even your first toon can stay geared up throughout the leveling process, so there shouldn't be a question of whether or not you have the right gear to run any instance as long as you're at the right level. As others have said, skill should be the only limiting factor if you're serious about trying to get into groups; you should already have sufficient gear to run whatever you're trying to run.
Havent you guys /gals outgrown this raiding BS yet?
Farming items just to farm more items to farm more items.
How many times will you replace the same item slot before you finally realize that everything you play for is meaningless every upgrade?
Doing the same dungeons twenty times a week doesnt get boring after a while?
IM sorry but this is straight up addiction, Someone needs to say it.
WoW is so much worse than EQ ever was. You guys play a videogame that sets a carrot on a stick and then resets everything to zero constantly making anything you did before obsolete.
GS is not just about endgame, now we see rerolls using Heirlooms items, soon enough they will ask your GS score to run deadmine ! I'm serious i saw level 15 in full Heirloom items with the GS of over 1000 ! That's more than some 60 i saw !
I dunno if GS is killing this game or not, but i can say that it killed it for me. I have a life outside this game, i cant afford to play WOW 30 hours a week, run the same dungeon 25 times just to get a chance to get that next Epic.
GS is not just about endgame, now we see rerolls using Heirlooms items, soon enough they will ask your GS score to run deadmine ! I'm serious i saw level 15 in full Heirloom items with the GS of over 1000 ! That's more than some 60 i saw !
I dunno if GS is killing this game or not, but i can say that it killed it for me. I have a life outside this game, i cant afford to play WOW 30 hours a week, run the same dungeon 25 times just to get a chance to get that next Epic.
It's cute to blame Blizzard for bad game design when the problem existed prior to the release of WoW.
Ever tried to get into a raiding guild in Everquest? You had to have a 'Magelo' profile.
Guess what it showed? Your gear and your AA points (spec).
Gearscore is just a simplified formula for doing something that players have been doing in MMOs for a lot longer than Blizzard have even been in the market. It has nothing to do with Blizzard and nothing to do with WoW and everything to do with the way the MMO community views progression.
Oh and Eve uses 'skillpoints' to do much the same thing. That community isn't any more immune than the others.
I raided for years in EQ, I never asked anyone to see their magelo and was never asked about mine. A very small percentage of players even used it unlike the large population of players in WoW. Now many raid guilds did have level, AA and key requirements. The only reason I ever knew for those type of requirements were so that the entire guild wouldnt have to go back and rekey someone who hadn't done the entire progression, not because grouping with an undergeared player might take 5 minutes longer to complete a 5 man dungeon. Theres a big difference between one players not scoring as high in DPS and a player not being able to enter a zone.
I've played EVE as well and never, ever heard of anyone being kicked from a fleet for having too few skillpoints.
Originally posted by Jehenna It's cute to blame Blizzard for bad game design when the problem existed prior to the release of WoW.
Ever tried to get into a raiding guild in Everquest? You had to have a 'Magelo' profile. Guess what it showed? Your gear and your AA points (spec).
Gearscore is just a simplified formula for doing something that players have been doing in MMOs for a lot longer than Blizzard have even been in the market. It has nothing to do with Blizzard and nothing to do with WoW and everything to do with the way the MMO community views progression.
Oh and Eve uses 'skillpoints' to do much the same thing. That community isn't any more immune than the others.
Well, of course its WoWs fault. EVERYTHING is WoWs fault. Didnt you know that?
EQ1 had gear and spec checking for raids. Which means its WoWs fault. EQ1 had paid server and name changes. Which means its WoWs fault. EQ1 and EQ2 has had RMT services for a while now. Which means its WoWs fault. Eve has features that can be accessed via cell phone. Which means its WoWs fault.
I don't mind using addons to measure my own progress. I must have quit again before GS became prevalent. Honestly, even your first toon can stay geared up throughout the leveling process, so there shouldn't be a question of whether or not you have the right gear to run any instance as long as you're at the right level. As others have said, skill should be the only limiting factor if you're serious about trying to get into groups; you should already have sufficient gear to run whatever you're trying to run.
True enough. But before the Dungeon Finder system it could be a serious PITA finding groups to do the instances with. I missed out on most of the BC instances because of that. I made do with quest rewards and what gear I could purchase on the AH. Given the existence of the DF system, there really is no excuse for not keeping up gear wise for ones level. That having been said, raiding is something else entirely, which is why I've not raided since MC.
Comments
So the looking for dungeon tool doesn't descriminate based on gear....oh wait...
How did Blizzard force player to skip a content? if someone wants to power level and hit end game content its their fault or companys fault? only because xp is increased doesn't mean one has to hit cap asap. Its like a double edged sword. if leveling is too slow players moan and if leveling is too fast players still moan. And since when low xp has stopped players from hitting lvl cap within few days? incrased xp just gives incentives to casual gamers who can't spend more then two hours a day on a video game.
if anything the dungeon tool has made lots of content now available to new and old players which they couldn't do because players were too busy power lvling. Its still a lot better option then changing low level content into completely soloable like LOTR. You can't blame unwilligness of players to group up on devs, thats really crazy talk. And this pig with lipstick still looks hundred times more gorgeous then any of your pretty horses.
To get back to the OP. I completely agree with this.
A better use for recount is damage done, damage received, and activity. DPS can be useless if they only attack for a small portion of the fight. The other statistics of the fight show who is standing in the fire (so to speak) who is being active in the fight, and overall who is participating.
The gearscore mod is a tool that is being made a scapegoat for the problems really. It is just a tool and it is up to people to know how to use the tool. Unfortunately most people use it as the only guide to form groups or raids. And usually they have way higher required gearscores for their raids than is recommended by the actual mod itself.
There are gear requirements for entering ToC and ICC 5man heroics through the LFD but they are fairly low. Only Halls of Reflection has a requirement that requires seriosu gearing up. The others can be entered in a mix of blues and ilevel 20 epics. Way lower than any GS addon requirement.
Just resub to WOW again today after a year off and i cannot believe how bad it is right now. Gear Score is all you see in trade chat. And from what i can see 5k is the bare minimum to do anything. I downloaded gear score to see what my 2 level 80 score was at and they were both at 3k. So to have any chance to be invited to do ANYTHING meaningful i'll had somehow manage to get 2000 more rating !
And if you asking if Blizzard care about Gear Score, well this post looks like they do care, to keep it ......
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20565928843&sid=1
gearscore is a good add on and will be here to stay and probly put into most mmo's, If you put a little effort into your toon using the random dungeon finder or crafted stuff moving your 3k gearscore toon to 5k will happen in no time , any one under 5k gearscore shows they dont put time and effort into there toon and want free hands outs and wont pull enough dps pass the first 4 boss in icc . 4700 or so can handle the first 4 bosses but that gets old fast only doing that every week. tho sometimes when i know im only doing first 4 boss i will take a 4700.
Work on your toons !!
Edited to add , also when i look for 2 dps to fill a raid or so i will get 7-10 tells and if i dont know any of them i will look at what class spec will help my raid than i look at gearscore , im going to take a MM hunter with 5200 gs over a mm hunter with 4600 its common sense.
GS is for no brainers end of discussion.
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.
I played WoW for 4 years. I worked to get the best gear in order to compete and to get into some of the best guilds out there. My mage was in a top 200 world guild and my pally in a top 25 world guild. I'm an elitist prick. Never once did I use gearscore. You'll find (atleast from my experience) that the better guilds don't discriminate as much as the "average" guilds, simply because they're just trying to get done asap or carry guild alts.
As a whole Wow's community has hit rock bottom. Bads calling other players bad is never much fun.
I was thinking about coming back to WoW but after reading this... no way in hell! Seems like the notion of just having fun is totally gone. Well its was kinda gone when I left a year ago but it sure hasnt gotten any better.
Blizzard employees don't want to play with undergeared players so it's not hard to imagine WoW players having this mentality.
Cataclysm is WoW's savior in my opinion. WoW definately went way down hill since vanilla which is why I stopped playing but gear will no longer be such a large factor as every class is pretty much getting an entirely new paint job. Honestly, look up the patch notes, it'll make you happy. Can't wait!
It's cute to blame Blizzard for bad game design when the problem existed prior to the release of WoW.
Ever tried to get into a raiding guild in Everquest? You had to have a 'Magelo' profile.
Guess what it showed? Your gear and your AA points (spec).
Gearscore is just a simplified formula for doing something that players have been doing in MMOs for a lot longer than Blizzard have even been in the market. It has nothing to do with Blizzard and nothing to do with WoW and everything to do with the way the MMO community views progression.
Oh and Eve uses 'skillpoints' to do much the same thing. That community isn't any more immune than the others.
Grind boy, Grind!
Skill points gain overtime (passively), very different from items in WoW that are obtained after a player reaches max level cap and is forced to farm over and over again to gain access to content.
The community in Eve does not enforce a skill point req to the level of what WoW players do in Blizzards game.
Honestly to even bring up Eve in the conversation is moronic. Skill points in Eve are closer to levels in WoW, Gearscore is totally different.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Thanks for describing every mmo on the market hahaa
It takes around 20 hours of play at level 80 to get 5k GS (which is more than enough for any 5 man encounter, and will get you started raiding wise), if this is grinding, well, have it your way.
The people that choose to raid are looking for achievements and trophies in any game. While the gear based progression WoW has is not perfect, it does work for this particular game.
Endgame in LotR, WAR or Aion has a similar 'grinding' component.
I don't mind using addons to measure my own progress. I must have quit again before GS became prevalent. Honestly, even your first toon can stay geared up throughout the leveling process, so there shouldn't be a question of whether or not you have the right gear to run any instance as long as you're at the right level. As others have said, skill should be the only limiting factor if you're serious about trying to get into groups; you should already have sufficient gear to run whatever you're trying to run.
Havent you guys /gals outgrown this raiding BS yet?
Farming items just to farm more items to farm more items.
How many times will you replace the same item slot before you finally realize that everything you play for is meaningless every upgrade?
Doing the same dungeons twenty times a week doesnt get boring after a while?
IM sorry but this is straight up addiction, Someone needs to say it.
WoW is so much worse than EQ ever was. You guys play a videogame that sets a carrot on a stick and then resets everything to zero constantly making anything you did before obsolete.
Wake up!
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
GS is not just about endgame, now we see rerolls using Heirlooms items, soon enough they will ask your GS score to run deadmine ! I'm serious i saw level 15 in full Heirloom items with the GS of over 1000 ! That's more than some 60 i saw !
I dunno if GS is killing this game or not, but i can say that it killed it for me. I have a life outside this game, i cant afford to play WOW 30 hours a week, run the same dungeon 25 times just to get a chance to get that next Epic.
Thats pathetic. Blizzard needs to burn in hell.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I raided for years in EQ, I never asked anyone to see their magelo and was never asked about mine. A very small percentage of players even used it unlike the large population of players in WoW. Now many raid guilds did have level, AA and key requirements. The only reason I ever knew for those type of requirements were so that the entire guild wouldnt have to go back and rekey someone who hadn't done the entire progression, not because grouping with an undergeared player might take 5 minutes longer to complete a 5 man dungeon. Theres a big difference between one players not scoring as high in DPS and a player not being able to enter a zone.
I've played EVE as well and never, ever heard of anyone being kicked from a fleet for having too few skillpoints.
EQ1 had gear and spec checking for raids. Which means its WoWs fault.
EQ1 had paid server and name changes. Which means its WoWs fault.
EQ1 and EQ2 has had RMT services for a while now. Which means its WoWs fault.
Eve has features that can be accessed via cell phone. Which means its WoWs fault.
Understand now?
True enough. But before the Dungeon Finder system it could be a serious PITA finding groups to do the instances with. I missed out on most of the BC instances because of that. I made do with quest rewards and what gear I could purchase on the AH. Given the existence of the DF system, there really is no excuse for not keeping up gear wise for ones level. That having been said, raiding is something else entirely, which is why I've not raided since MC.
I need to stop, Im just ranting now because I find gear based games pathetic.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP