I am in no way disappointed with SW:ToR, I am still looking forward to the game. However, I have become increasingly disinterested with the hype. I do not want to get overly excited and have huge expectations, because, I don't want to relive SWG. (Yes, another mildly disgruntled veteran) They are promising a lot, yet showing us so little that we haven't seen before. I was a very very active member of my class forum of choice, the Consular, but I haven't posted on those forums in close to a month. The speculation has grown very tiresome and I think i'll wait for the game to go into beta... an official closed beta lasting longer than 3 days.
I'm a little disappointed after receiving today's e-mail and watching the group combat. I thought they said they were getting rid of the Holy Trinity in this game or did I mis-read something?
Guess I'll still be waiting for an MMO that gets rid of that stupid system. Tank, Heal, DPS. Great
You want some sort of reinvention of the wheel and it's been proven before, in many games, that the holy trinity works because it gives each player a role in combat, rather than everyone having multi-purpose characters that just ends up as a big DPS fest.
Your thought process and people like you is exactly why MMO's haven't changed in 10 years. We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned. Thanks.
If you generalise enough, they WILL seem the same, especially if you refuse to acknowledge the differences which some people are happy to accept.
Omg!!! its a third person rpg game!!! its a reskin of Kotor!!......well, thats the point. Games fall into niches and catagories because they are SUPPOSED to be similar to other games in that same category.
This is what makes me laugh at those who are quick to point out how every game looks similar to WoW or EQ, or those who resort to gross generalisations such as claiming that an MMO is a "WoW Clone". Seriously, if you cannot recognise the differences then you are truely blind and you only have one intent, to flame. Yes, games have similar features and use the same mechanics, they're supposed to! That's how items are categorised: by their similarities. Some people like it that way. If you don't, tough! But just because an MMO has a functioning UI, quest / assignment / mission system, storylines, PVE, soloing, grouping and raiding doesn't mean the game is a clone.
If some people don't like how the game is right now then fine, give your opinion based on limited facts and walk away from it. And for hells sake, stop screaming about "innovation" if you have no alternative suggestions to make.
And if YOU feel that YOU can do better, then by all means, setup an MMO dev company and attempt to design a product that sells and can be considered "successful" by MMO standards. Then come back and tell us how it all went.
Disappointmet would mean did not live up to certain expectations of mine.
My expectations of TOR is for it to be another fun Bioware game, not necessarily a great MMO. I have no expectations for it to provide everything I want in a MMO, but I do have expectations for it to be another Bioware game that I enjoy.
So no, I don't feel disappointed. Not to mention, it's hard to be disappointed in something that I will not have the chance to play until a year from now.
Originally posted by RudyRaccoon .... I feel disappointed with this game now becauser all the main characters you play as all have British accents which is strange...
I concour, lets hope we get some german and swedish accent in there, or maybe save some bucks and outsource voice dialog to some low cost nations like china or india, I see unused potential.
telling people you are in breaks nda, go to official forums people are being banned left and right for saying that alpha is currently underway or that you are in alpha
Very, but this is a perfect thread for haters and hype merchants who need something imaginary to moan about. If Bioware keep up the level of professionalism and keep developing to their plan I believe that , the type of people who like the negative the end of the world threads will just implode.
Very very amusing.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
@Teala, but more so in general: what I would really like to see in these threads is that people don't only look at one side of the argument, seeing only the positive or only the negative side, but that they're able to go along with and admit the sense of arguments that are not their own side. Would like to see something like this from the official side of this site i.e. some articles telling me what is wrong with a game(so i can make an informed decision when deciding to invest my time/money) rather than just the endless rounds of hype,hype,hype
Why is it so hard for fanbois to see and admit the bad aspects of 'their' game?
Why is it so hard for haters/trashers to see and admit the good aspects of a game?
Could be because a lot of them are the same ppl
Every game has good AND bad traits, but it seems most people don't like to admit that when posting.
And above all, why is it that people feel they can judge and predict how exactly a game will be when there isn't even a beta of it yet? possibly based upon information available coupled with experience gleamed from other games, but there is a difference between opionion and self imposed fact
Yeah, i know that's what you see in a lot of gameforums, bias, rash judgements, fanboism, trolls, haters, etc, etc. Seems to be more than usual in these forums though. I think this may come down to the fact this site seems much more geared towards hype than impartial reporting and people following that lead
Personally: I didn't like the graphics style of SW TOR at all, too toony. When i lost interest in this game was when they stated that the disney style look was the one they were after and in the same breathe stated that they were making swtor like the films(experience from swg influencing my opinion), does make me wonder what star wars films mmo devs watch? Also other game aspects make me feel kinda 'meh' about the game, especially compared to what has been released qua info about games like GW2. Plus I'm not that great a fan of the whole Star Wars franchise.
The latest interviews and information from the E3 has boosted my interest about SW ToR though and my confidence that Bioware is onto something with SW TOR. No, it will not be a 'next gen' MMO or very innovative, but what I've seen so far makes me think it will be a huge, very enormous MMO world and an entertaining gameplay experience for several different playstyles. Have a different opinion here as it seems to have a smller feel to the world compared to most mmo's and the gameplay seems to be little different from the standard and so for me not that entertaining and unlikely to have much in the way of different playstyle, but will have to wait and see on this front
Before SW TOR in my list still come GW2 and TSW though (love the horror/urban fantasy/Lovecraft setting of it).
I'm a little disappointed after receiving today's e-mail and watching the group combat. I thought they said they were getting rid of the Holy Trinity in this game or did I mis-read something?
Guess I'll still be waiting for an MMO that gets rid of that stupid system. Tank, Heal, DPS. Great
You want some sort of reinvention of the wheel and it's been proven before, in many games, that the holy trinity works because it gives each player a role in combat, rather than everyone having multi-purpose characters that just ends up as a big DPS fest.
Your thought process and people like you is exactly why MMO's haven't changed in 10 years. We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned. Thanks.
I'm always curious about this
Otside of wow (and maybe eq)where exactly is it that this style works so well?
In comparison to what is out there in this market I am not dissapointed in TOR. However, I will say that I expected more playable classes from release. I want to see at least 5 classes per side. Hopefully this is something they are still working on and not just holding back on for an expansion like WAR did with their classes.
I'm a little disappointed after receiving today's e-mail and watching the group combat. I thought they said they were getting rid of the Holy Trinity in this game or did I mis-read something?
Guess I'll still be waiting for an MMO that gets rid of that stupid system. Tank, Heal, DPS. Great
You want some sort of reinvention of the wheel and it's been proven before, in many games, that the holy trinity works because it gives each player a role in combat, rather than everyone having multi-purpose characters that just ends up as a big DPS fest.
Your thought process and people like you is exactly why MMO's haven't changed in 10 years. We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned. Thanks.
If you generalise enough, they WILL seem the same, especially if you refuse to acknowledge the differences which some people are happy to accept.
Omg!!! its a third person rpg game!!! its a reskin of Kotor!!......well, thats the point. Games fall into niches and catagories because they are SUPPOSED to be similar to other games in that same category.
This is what makes me laugh at those who are quick to point out how every game looks similar to WoW or EQ, or those who resort to gross generalisations such as claiming that an MMO is a "WoW Clone". Seriously, if you cannot recognise the differences then you are truely blind and you only have one intent, to flame. Yes, games have similar features and use the same mechanics, they're supposed to! That's how items are categorised: by their similarities. Some people like it that way. If you don't, tough! But just because an MMO has a functioning UI, quest / assignment / mission system, storylines, PVE, soloing, grouping and raiding doesn't mean the game is a clone.
If some people don't like how the game is right now then fine, give your opinion based on limited facts and walk away from it. And for hells sake, stop screaming about "innovation" if you have no alternative suggestions to make.
And if YOU feel that YOU can do better, then by all means, setup an MMO dev company and attempt to design a product that sells and can be considered "successful" by MMO standards. Then come back and tell us how it all went.
Could you point to where I said it was a clone? We don't get innovation because even when people ask for it they don't really want it. I think SWTOR realized this and that is why they went back to the typical trinity system. In fact this is my only beef with the game. I have liked everything else that they have shown but I see there is no conversation to be allowed. I pointed out 1 thing that I was disappointed in and I have 10 different posters telling me to shut up. If this is the community that this game has then I will skip this game because it will be a cesspool.
The Devs said they were going to get rid of the trinity but this video comes out and the dev himself points out exactly how the trinity works. This is my only gripe.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
I'm a little disappointed after receiving today's e-mail and watching the group combat. I thought they said they were getting rid of the Holy Trinity in this game or did I mis-read something?
Guess I'll still be waiting for an MMO that gets rid of that stupid system. Tank, Heal, DPS. Great
You want some sort of reinvention of the wheel and it's been proven before, in many games, that the holy trinity works because it gives each player a role in combat, rather than everyone having multi-purpose characters that just ends up as a big DPS fest.
Your thought process and people like you is exactly why MMO's haven't changed in 10 years. We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned. Thanks.
I'm always curious about this
Otside of wow (and maybe eq)where exactly is it that this style works so well?
I don't even think it has been tried because every game that has some new innovation gets shunned by the MMO community.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Haha now let the politics discussions begin lol. But I agree you can't judge a game till it is out. It doesn't look as good as I hoped but that does not mean I won't try it out and hope it blows my expectations away. Some of the best things in life are surprises.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. - J.R.R. Tolkien
I Cant be disappointed in something i haven't played, its like voting you never know how good they are till they take office.
Exactly
This is how Obama got office. Most people looked at what it looked like, and assumed how he was going to be.
So until I play, I will not say if it is good or bad. It definately looks promising (:
Not exactly, with Obame there was a lot more information out there but people didn't wish to listen to it. With SWTOR, there still is little info since it is a work in progress. In other words, it is like comparing apples to oranges. Maybe by about December of this year or Feburary of next will have a better idea. So far, I have things that give me a little concern but much more that looks pretty good. Even so, I wil not say the game will be "great" or "terrible" based upon just what has been shown to date.
I'm a little disappointed after receiving today's e-mail and watching the group combat. I thought they said they were getting rid of the Holy Trinity in this game or did I mis-read something?
Guess I'll still be waiting for an MMO that gets rid of that stupid system. Tank, Heal, DPS. Great
You want some sort of reinvention of the wheel and it's been proven before, in many games, that the holy trinity works because it gives each player a role in combat, rather than everyone having multi-purpose characters that just ends up as a big DPS fest.
Your thought process and people like you is exactly why MMO's haven't changed in 10 years. We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned. Thanks.
If you generalise enough, they WILL seem the same, especially if you refuse to acknowledge the differences which some people are happy to accept.
Omg!!! its a third person rpg game!!! its a reskin of Kotor!!......well, thats the point. Games fall into niches and catagories because they are SUPPOSED to be similar to other games in that same category.
This is what makes me laugh at those who are quick to point out how every game looks similar to WoW or EQ, or those who resort to gross generalisations such as claiming that an MMO is a "WoW Clone". Seriously, if you cannot recognise the differences then you are truely blind and you only have one intent, to flame. Yes, games have similar features and use the same mechanics, they're supposed to! That's how items are categorised: by their similarities. Some people like it that way. If you don't, tough! But just because an MMO has a functioning UI, quest / assignment / mission system, storylines, PVE, soloing, grouping and raiding doesn't mean the game is a clone.
If some people don't like how the game is right now then fine, give your opinion based on limited facts and walk away from it. And for hells sake, stop screaming about "innovation" if you have no alternative suggestions to make.
And if YOU feel that YOU can do better, then by all means, setup an MMO dev company and attempt to design a product that sells and can be considered "successful" by MMO standards. Then come back and tell us how it all went.
Could you point to where I said it was a clone? We don't get innovation because even when people ask for it they don't really want it. I think SWTOR realized this and that is why they went back to the typical trinity system. In fact this is my only beef with the game. I have liked everything else that they have shown but I see there is no conversation to be allowed. I pointed out 1 thing that I was disappointed in and I have 10 different posters telling me to shut up. If this is the community that this game has then I will skip this game because it will be a cesspool.
The Devs said they were going to get rid of the trinity but this video comes out and the dev himself points out exactly how the trinity works. This is my only gripe.
I never said you DID say it was a clone. But you DID grossly generalise by saying "We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned". The fact that such a generalisation indicates that you don't appreciate each game on its own merits. Instead you appear to prefer to see only its similarities with other games and then claim they are the same. That is basically the same as calling these games "clones", which is absurd because the very fact that they differ means that by definition they AREN'T reskins, and neither are they "clones".
You would have gotten the same argument from me, had you made your statment about ANY MMO. These kind of generalisations are neither productive to the discussion, nor are they objective.
In my opinion, it's ok not to like something, but if you're going to keep to that opinion then it's often best to give a suggestion as an alternative option in order to justify your perspective. And by doing that, you stand less chance of appearing to be just a whiner or a hater who just wants an argument.
I am so not playing a game that shows nothing but disappointment while it is still under development.
I mean, just looking at that one screenshot a year before launch, you cna already see that it will be the biggest failure of the gaming industry....and I know that because I can see failures and winning games just by looking at a single screenshot or watch 1 sec of a trailer of a beta product. :S
Funny!
Sarcasm at it's best...............
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I'm a little disappointed after receiving today's e-mail and watching the group combat. I thought they said they were getting rid of the Holy Trinity in this game or did I mis-read something?
Guess I'll still be waiting for an MMO that gets rid of that stupid system. Tank, Heal, DPS. Great
You want some sort of reinvention of the wheel and it's been proven before, in many games, that the holy trinity works because it gives each player a role in combat, rather than everyone having multi-purpose characters that just ends up as a big DPS fest.
Your thought process and people like you is exactly why MMO's haven't changed in 10 years. We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned. Thanks.
If you generalise enough, they WILL seem the same, especially if you refuse to acknowledge the differences which some people are happy to accept.
Omg!!! its a third person rpg game!!! its a reskin of Kotor!!......well, thats the point. Games fall into niches and catagories because they are SUPPOSED to be similar to other games in that same category.
This is what makes me laugh at those who are quick to point out how every game looks similar to WoW or EQ, or those who resort to gross generalisations such as claiming that an MMO is a "WoW Clone". Seriously, if you cannot recognise the differences then you are truely blind and you only have one intent, to flame. Yes, games have similar features and use the same mechanics, they're supposed to! That's how items are categorised: by their similarities. Some people like it that way. If you don't, tough! But just because an MMO has a functioning UI, quest / assignment / mission system, storylines, PVE, soloing, grouping and raiding doesn't mean the game is a clone.
If some people don't like how the game is right now then fine, give your opinion based on limited facts and walk away from it. And for hells sake, stop screaming about "innovation" if you have no alternative suggestions to make.
And if YOU feel that YOU can do better, then by all means, setup an MMO dev company and attempt to design a product that sells and can be considered "successful" by MMO standards. Then come back and tell us how it all went.
Could you point to where I said it was a clone? We don't get innovation because even when people ask for it they don't really want it. I think SWTOR realized this and that is why they went back to the typical trinity system. In fact this is my only beef with the game. I have liked everything else that they have shown but I see there is no conversation to be allowed. I pointed out 1 thing that I was disappointed in and I have 10 different posters telling me to shut up. If this is the community that this game has then I will skip this game because it will be a cesspool.
The Devs said they were going to get rid of the trinity but this video comes out and the dev himself points out exactly how the trinity works. This is my only gripe.
I never said you DID say it was a clone. But you DID grossly generalise by saying "We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned". The fact that such a generalisation indicates that you don't appreciate each game on its own merits. Instead you appear to prefer to see only its similarities with other games and then claim they are the same. That is basically the same as calling these games "clones", which is absurd because the very fact that they differ means that by definition they AREN'T reskins, and neither are they "clones".
You would have gotten the same argument from me, had you made your statment about ANY MMO. These kind of generalisations are neither productive to the discussion, nor are they objective.
In my opinion, it's ok not to like something, but if you're going to keep to that opinion then it's often best to give a suggestion as an alternative option in order to justify your perspective. And by doing that, you stand less chance of appearing to be just a whiner or a hater who just wants an argument.
Look it's this simple. They said they got rid of the trinity. I got excited. They released the video showing that they will still be using the trinity. I got disappointed. The rest of the game looks great.
I just wish somewhere in the future we can get rid of this system and no I don't have the answer. Should we always keep our mouths shut if we don't have an alternative?
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
I'm a little disappointed after receiving today's e-mail and watching the group combat. I thought they said they were getting rid of the Holy Trinity in this game or did I mis-read something?
Guess I'll still be waiting for an MMO that gets rid of that stupid system. Tank, Heal, DPS. Great
You want some sort of reinvention of the wheel and it's been proven before, in many games, that the holy trinity works because it gives each player a role in combat, rather than everyone having multi-purpose characters that just ends up as a big DPS fest.
Your thought process and people like you is exactly why MMO's haven't changed in 10 years. We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned. Thanks.
If you generalise enough, they WILL seem the same, especially if you refuse to acknowledge the differences which some people are happy to accept.
Omg!!! its a third person rpg game!!! its a reskin of Kotor!!......well, thats the point. Games fall into niches and catagories because they are SUPPOSED to be similar to other games in that same category.
This is what makes me laugh at those who are quick to point out how every game looks similar to WoW or EQ, or those who resort to gross generalisations such as claiming that an MMO is a "WoW Clone". Seriously, if you cannot recognise the differences then you are truely blind and you only have one intent, to flame. Yes, games have similar features and use the same mechanics, they're supposed to! That's how items are categorised: by their similarities. Some people like it that way. If you don't, tough! But just because an MMO has a functioning UI, quest / assignment / mission system, storylines, PVE, soloing, grouping and raiding doesn't mean the game is a clone.
If some people don't like how the game is right now then fine, give your opinion based on limited facts and walk away from it. And for hells sake, stop screaming about "innovation" if you have no alternative suggestions to make.
And if YOU feel that YOU can do better, then by all means, setup an MMO dev company and attempt to design a product that sells and can be considered "successful" by MMO standards. Then come back and tell us how it all went.
Could you point to where I said it was a clone? We don't get innovation because even when people ask for it they don't really want it. I think SWTOR realized this and that is why they went back to the typical trinity system. In fact this is my only beef with the game. I have liked everything else that they have shown but I see there is no conversation to be allowed. I pointed out 1 thing that I was disappointed in and I have 10 different posters telling me to shut up. If this is the community that this game has then I will skip this game because it will be a cesspool.
The Devs said they were going to get rid of the trinity but this video comes out and the dev himself points out exactly how the trinity works. This is my only gripe.
I never said you DID say it was a clone. But you DID grossly generalise by saying "We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned". The fact that such a generalisation indicates that you don't appreciate each game on its own merits. Instead you appear to prefer to see only its similarities with other games and then claim they are the same. That is basically the same as calling these games "clones", which is absurd because the very fact that they differ means that by definition they AREN'T reskins, and neither are they "clones".
You would have gotten the same argument from me, had you made your statment about ANY MMO. These kind of generalisations are neither productive to the discussion, nor are they objective.
In my opinion, it's ok not to like something, but if you're going to keep to that opinion then it's often best to give a suggestion as an alternative option in order to justify your perspective. And by doing that, you stand less chance of appearing to be just a whiner or a hater who just wants an argument.
Look it's this simple. They said they got rid of the trinity. I got excited. They released the video showing that they will still be using the trinity. I got disappointed. The rest of the game looks great.
I just wish somewhere in the future we can get rid of this system and no I don't have the answer. Should we always keep our mouths shut if we don't have an alternative?
So how would you handle it? Just curious.
Maybe design the encounters to be BARELY survivable, and all healing takes place using med-pacs when out of combat?
I'm a little disappointed after receiving today's e-mail and watching the group combat. I thought they said they were getting rid of the Holy Trinity in this game or did I mis-read something?
Guess I'll still be waiting for an MMO that gets rid of that stupid system. Tank, Heal, DPS. Great
You want some sort of reinvention of the wheel and it's been proven before, in many games, that the holy trinity works because it gives each player a role in combat, rather than everyone having multi-purpose characters that just ends up as a big DPS fest.
Your thought process and people like you is exactly why MMO's haven't changed in 10 years. We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned. Thanks.
If you generalise enough, they WILL seem the same, especially if you refuse to acknowledge the differences which some people are happy to accept.
Omg!!! its a third person rpg game!!! its a reskin of Kotor!!......well, thats the point. Games fall into niches and catagories because they are SUPPOSED to be similar to other games in that same category.
This is what makes me laugh at those who are quick to point out how every game looks similar to WoW or EQ, or those who resort to gross generalisations such as claiming that an MMO is a "WoW Clone". Seriously, if you cannot recognise the differences then you are truely blind and you only have one intent, to flame. Yes, games have similar features and use the same mechanics, they're supposed to! That's how items are categorised: by their similarities. Some people like it that way. If you don't, tough! But just because an MMO has a functioning UI, quest / assignment / mission system, storylines, PVE, soloing, grouping and raiding doesn't mean the game is a clone.
If some people don't like how the game is right now then fine, give your opinion based on limited facts and walk away from it. And for hells sake, stop screaming about "innovation" if you have no alternative suggestions to make.
And if YOU feel that YOU can do better, then by all means, setup an MMO dev company and attempt to design a product that sells and can be considered "successful" by MMO standards. Then come back and tell us how it all went.
Could you point to where I said it was a clone? We don't get innovation because even when people ask for it they don't really want it. I think SWTOR realized this and that is why they went back to the typical trinity system. In fact this is my only beef with the game. I have liked everything else that they have shown but I see there is no conversation to be allowed. I pointed out 1 thing that I was disappointed in and I have 10 different posters telling me to shut up. If this is the community that this game has then I will skip this game because it will be a cesspool.
The Devs said they were going to get rid of the trinity but this video comes out and the dev himself points out exactly how the trinity works. This is my only gripe.
I never said you DID say it was a clone. But you DID grossly generalise by saying "We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned". The fact that such a generalisation indicates that you don't appreciate each game on its own merits. Instead you appear to prefer to see only its similarities with other games and then claim they are the same. That is basically the same as calling these games "clones", which is absurd because the very fact that they differ means that by definition they AREN'T reskins, and neither are they "clones".
You would have gotten the same argument from me, had you made your statment about ANY MMO. These kind of generalisations are neither productive to the discussion, nor are they objective.
In my opinion, it's ok not to like something, but if you're going to keep to that opinion then it's often best to give a suggestion as an alternative option in order to justify your perspective. And by doing that, you stand less chance of appearing to be just a whiner or a hater who just wants an argument.
Look it's this simple. They said they got rid of the trinity. I got excited. They released the video showing that they will still be using the trinity. I got disappointed. The rest of the game looks great.
I just wish somewhere in the future we can get rid of this system and no I don't have the answer. Should we always keep our mouths shut if we don't have an alternative?
So how would you handle it? Just curious.
Maybe design the encounters to be BARELY survivable, and all healing takes place using med-pacs when out of combat?
I already stated I don't have the answer but I did find one article on the subject.
I thought it was said that you didn't have to rely on the holy trinity to play a character through his entire story line but there was content especially with groups involved where it would be necissary. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought that was what was said.
I'm a little disappointed after receiving today's e-mail and watching the group combat. I thought they said they were getting rid of the Holy Trinity in this game or did I mis-read something?
Guess I'll still be waiting for an MMO that gets rid of that stupid system. Tank, Heal, DPS. Great
You want some sort of reinvention of the wheel and it's been proven before, in many games, that the holy trinity works because it gives each player a role in combat, rather than everyone having multi-purpose characters that just ends up as a big DPS fest.
Your thought process and people like you is exactly why MMO's haven't changed in 10 years. We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned. Thanks.
If you generalise enough, they WILL seem the same, especially if you refuse to acknowledge the differences which some people are happy to accept.
Omg!!! its a third person rpg game!!! its a reskin of Kotor!!......well, thats the point. Games fall into niches and catagories because they are SUPPOSED to be similar to other games in that same category.
This is what makes me laugh at those who are quick to point out how every game looks similar to WoW or EQ, or those who resort to gross generalisations such as claiming that an MMO is a "WoW Clone". Seriously, if you cannot recognise the differences then you are truely blind and you only have one intent, to flame. Yes, games have similar features and use the same mechanics, they're supposed to! That's how items are categorised: by their similarities. Some people like it that way. If you don't, tough! But just because an MMO has a functioning UI, quest / assignment / mission system, storylines, PVE, soloing, grouping and raiding doesn't mean the game is a clone.
If some people don't like how the game is right now then fine, give your opinion based on limited facts and walk away from it. And for hells sake, stop screaming about "innovation" if you have no alternative suggestions to make.
And if YOU feel that YOU can do better, then by all means, setup an MMO dev company and attempt to design a product that sells and can be considered "successful" by MMO standards. Then come back and tell us how it all went.
Could you point to where I said it was a clone? We don't get innovation because even when people ask for it they don't really want it. I think SWTOR realized this and that is why they went back to the typical trinity system. In fact this is my only beef with the game. I have liked everything else that they have shown but I see there is no conversation to be allowed. I pointed out 1 thing that I was disappointed in and I have 10 different posters telling me to shut up. If this is the community that this game has then I will skip this game because it will be a cesspool.
The Devs said they were going to get rid of the trinity but this video comes out and the dev himself points out exactly how the trinity works. This is my only gripe.
I never said you DID say it was a clone. But you DID grossly generalise by saying "We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned". The fact that such a generalisation indicates that you don't appreciate each game on its own merits. Instead you appear to prefer to see only its similarities with other games and then claim they are the same. That is basically the same as calling these games "clones", which is absurd because the very fact that they differ means that by definition they AREN'T reskins, and neither are they "clones".
You would have gotten the same argument from me, had you made your statment about ANY MMO. These kind of generalisations are neither productive to the discussion, nor are they objective.
In my opinion, it's ok not to like something, but if you're going to keep to that opinion then it's often best to give a suggestion as an alternative option in order to justify your perspective. And by doing that, you stand less chance of appearing to be just a whiner or a hater who just wants an argument.
Look it's this simple. They said they got rid of the trinity. I got excited. They released the video showing that they will still be using the trinity. I got disappointed. The rest of the game looks great.
I just wish somewhere in the future we can get rid of this system and no I don't have the answer. Should we always keep our mouths shut if we don't have an alternative?
So how would you handle it? Just curious.
Maybe design the encounters to be BARELY survivable, and all healing takes place using med-pacs when out of combat?
I already stated I don't have the answer but I did find one article on the subject.
I know it will be tough to get rid of such a system but I think we can find a way.
That is a VERY well written article, thanks for the link. However, the writer did point out the very thing that Bioware is doing in order to step away from the rigid "Holy Trinity" style and relax is a bit: that classes can fill multiple roles.
Btw, where did Bioware say that they were getting rid of the Holy Trinity? I don't remember seeing that.
Anyhow, I don't know whether you're aware but apparently there are 8 "archtype" classes, each with 2 "advanced classes". EACH of those "advanced classes" has access to 3 skill trees, one of which is a common tree to both advanced classes.
Now, take the Sith Warrior for instance. It has two advanced classes that we know of (we don't know the AC's for other archtypes yet): Juggernaut (tank) and Marauder (dps). There was apparently a suggestion by the devs that whilst you COULD in theory switch between the two AC's, it won't be simply, quickly or easy. However, that's not to say that the skill trees for Juggernaut and Marauder WON'T allow for further customisation (i.e. more damage to the Juggernaut at the expense of tanking ability).
None of this is detailed in the videos. Hence why your perspective may not be seeing the whole situation.
Please don't misunderstand me, I like the idea of skill based / hybrid systems which allow for more flexibility in character stat composition. It appears that Bioware are not rigidly adhereing to the "traditional" MMO design whereby set classes performing just one role each. However, Bioware are certainly NOT making a skill based / hybrid game from what I can see. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Its just a design choice.
Personally, I think Bioware should follow Blizzard and allow for "dual speccing", thus allowing any player to have 2 distinct configurations for their character which they can switch between (but not in combat).
Comments
I am in no way disappointed with SW:ToR, I am still looking forward to the game. However, I have become increasingly disinterested with the hype. I do not want to get overly excited and have huge expectations, because, I don't want to relive SWG. (Yes, another mildly disgruntled veteran) They are promising a lot, yet showing us so little that we haven't seen before. I was a very very active member of my class forum of choice, the Consular, but I haven't posted on those forums in close to a month. The speculation has grown very tiresome and I think i'll wait for the game to go into beta... an official closed beta lasting longer than 3 days.
If you generalise enough, they WILL seem the same, especially if you refuse to acknowledge the differences which some people are happy to accept.
Omg!!! its a third person rpg game!!! its a reskin of Kotor!!......well, thats the point. Games fall into niches and catagories because they are SUPPOSED to be similar to other games in that same category.
This is what makes me laugh at those who are quick to point out how every game looks similar to WoW or EQ, or those who resort to gross generalisations such as claiming that an MMO is a "WoW Clone". Seriously, if you cannot recognise the differences then you are truely blind and you only have one intent, to flame. Yes, games have similar features and use the same mechanics, they're supposed to! That's how items are categorised: by their similarities. Some people like it that way. If you don't, tough! But just because an MMO has a functioning UI, quest / assignment / mission system, storylines, PVE, soloing, grouping and raiding doesn't mean the game is a clone.
If some people don't like how the game is right now then fine, give your opinion based on limited facts and walk away from it. And for hells sake, stop screaming about "innovation" if you have no alternative suggestions to make.
And if YOU feel that YOU can do better, then by all means, setup an MMO dev company and attempt to design a product that sells and can be considered "successful" by MMO standards. Then come back and tell us how it all went.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Disappointmet would mean did not live up to certain expectations of mine.
My expectations of TOR is for it to be another fun Bioware game, not necessarily a great MMO. I have no expectations for it to provide everything I want in a MMO, but I do have expectations for it to be another Bioware game that I enjoy.
So no, I don't feel disappointed. Not to mention, it's hard to be disappointed in something that I will not have the chance to play until a year from now.
Pointless thread
I concour, lets hope we get some german and swedish accent in there, or maybe save some bucks and outsource voice dialog to some low cost nations like china or india, I see unused potential.
Unlike you guys I don't have a cool time machine car like in back to the future so I haven't played it yet.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Nice , I agree with everything you said about the hype and this type of thread is so negative it makes me wonder.
Good luck with the testing !!!!
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Very, but this is a perfect thread for haters and hype merchants who need something imaginary to moan about. If Bioware keep up the level of professionalism and keep developing to their plan I believe that , the type of people who like the negative the end of the world threads will just implode.
Very very amusing.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I'm always curious about this
Otside of wow (and maybe eq)where exactly is it that this style works so well?
In comparison to what is out there in this market I am not dissapointed in TOR. However, I will say that I expected more playable classes from release. I want to see at least 5 classes per side. Hopefully this is something they are still working on and not just holding back on for an expansion like WAR did with their classes.
Could you point to where I said it was a clone? We don't get innovation because even when people ask for it they don't really want it. I think SWTOR realized this and that is why they went back to the typical trinity system. In fact this is my only beef with the game. I have liked everything else that they have shown but I see there is no conversation to be allowed. I pointed out 1 thing that I was disappointed in and I have 10 different posters telling me to shut up. If this is the community that this game has then I will skip this game because it will be a cesspool.
The Devs said they were going to get rid of the trinity but this video comes out and the dev himself points out exactly how the trinity works. This is my only gripe.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
I don't even think it has been tried because every game that has some new innovation gets shunned by the MMO community.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
I Cant be disappointed in something i haven't played, its like voting you never know how good they are till they take office.
Exactly
This is how Obama got office. Most people looked at what it looked like, and assumed how he was going to be.
So until I play, I will not say if it is good or bad. It definately looks promising (:
Pepsi1028
PEPSI!!!!!
Get out of your box already...
Haha now let the politics discussions begin lol. But I agree you can't judge a game till it is out. It doesn't look as good as I hoped but that does not mean I won't try it out and hope it blows my expectations away. Some of the best things in life are surprises.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. - J.R.R. Tolkien
Not exactly, with Obame there was a lot more information out there but people didn't wish to listen to it. With SWTOR, there still is little info since it is a work in progress. In other words, it is like comparing apples to oranges. Maybe by about December of this year or Feburary of next will have a better idea. So far, I have things that give me a little concern but much more that looks pretty good. Even so, I wil not say the game will be "great" or "terrible" based upon just what has been shown to date.
Let's party like it is 1863!
I never said you DID say it was a clone. But you DID grossly generalise by saying "We are still getting the exact same games re-skinned". The fact that such a generalisation indicates that you don't appreciate each game on its own merits. Instead you appear to prefer to see only its similarities with other games and then claim they are the same. That is basically the same as calling these games "clones", which is absurd because the very fact that they differ means that by definition they AREN'T reskins, and neither are they "clones".
You would have gotten the same argument from me, had you made your statment about ANY MMO. These kind of generalisations are neither productive to the discussion, nor are they objective.
In my opinion, it's ok not to like something, but if you're going to keep to that opinion then it's often best to give a suggestion as an alternative option in order to justify your perspective. And by doing that, you stand less chance of appearing to be just a whiner or a hater who just wants an argument.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Sarcasm at it's best...............
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Look it's this simple. They said they got rid of the trinity. I got excited. They released the video showing that they will still be using the trinity. I got disappointed. The rest of the game looks great.
I just wish somewhere in the future we can get rid of this system and no I don't have the answer. Should we always keep our mouths shut if we don't have an alternative?
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
So how would you handle it? Just curious.
Maybe design the encounters to be BARELY survivable, and all healing takes place using med-pacs when out of combat?
I already stated I don't have the answer but I did find one article on the subject.
Rethinking the Trinity of MMO Design
I know it will be tough to get rid of such a system but I think we can find a way.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
I thought it was said that you didn't have to rely on the holy trinity to play a character through his entire story line but there was content especially with groups involved where it would be necissary. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought that was what was said.
This is, without a doubt, one of the most horrible games I've ever played.
RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!
That is a VERY well written article, thanks for the link. However, the writer did point out the very thing that Bioware is doing in order to step away from the rigid "Holy Trinity" style and relax is a bit: that classes can fill multiple roles.
Btw, where did Bioware say that they were getting rid of the Holy Trinity? I don't remember seeing that.
Anyhow, I don't know whether you're aware but apparently there are 8 "archtype" classes, each with 2 "advanced classes". EACH of those "advanced classes" has access to 3 skill trees, one of which is a common tree to both advanced classes.
Now, take the Sith Warrior for instance. It has two advanced classes that we know of (we don't know the AC's for other archtypes yet): Juggernaut (tank) and Marauder (dps). There was apparently a suggestion by the devs that whilst you COULD in theory switch between the two AC's, it won't be simply, quickly or easy. However, that's not to say that the skill trees for Juggernaut and Marauder WON'T allow for further customisation (i.e. more damage to the Juggernaut at the expense of tanking ability).
None of this is detailed in the videos. Hence why your perspective may not be seeing the whole situation.
Please don't misunderstand me, I like the idea of skill based / hybrid systems which allow for more flexibility in character stat composition. It appears that Bioware are not rigidly adhereing to the "traditional" MMO design whereby set classes performing just one role each. However, Bioware are certainly NOT making a skill based / hybrid game from what I can see. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Its just a design choice.
Personally, I think Bioware should follow Blizzard and allow for "dual speccing", thus allowing any player to have 2 distinct configurations for their character which they can switch between (but not in combat).
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's