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XP gets penalized....
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I for one think this is a glorious idea! They had something sort of similar in SWG, but it could be semi-quickly remedied with a quick trip to the local cantina and some down time watching entertainers dance and play music. It's about strengthening the bonds of a community by encouraging you not to spend all day whacking rodents and never talking to the players around you.
I wouldn't worry about the beta people either. Most are instant satisfaction types, and that's just not what Final Fantasy games have ever been about.
One other comment, as a friend pointed out, in FFXI every time you logged into the game, there was a screen that implored players to not neglect their family and friends, and to take breaks and go outside. This feature tells me they needed a bigger crowbar to drive the message home to some people.
They should have just called it rested XP and then everyone wouldn't be nerd raging. It's the same thing except that you start out ridiculously rested, and switching classes makes you rested.
People need to think about how a feature might play out before nerd raging on forums about it and acting like SE raped their mothers and stole their goats.
Some people are claiming the fatigue system makes it practically impossible to progress beyond a certain point, where others are claiming its only a slight hindrance. Someone on another fansite also noted that exp had been increased for phase 3, which made the fatigue system more noticeable.
I've personally not encountered this system yet, since I'm having more fun dicking around in the new world and exploring rather than exping on a character thats going to be deletd in a couple of days.
As i have not played beta i can not say how much this system will realy have an effect on the game.
My opinion is that SE will tweak the settings to make it so it will not be a hinderance for the majority of players (thouse who play 20hrs a day will always be effected by this setup), but it sould not be too bad at the start of the game as we will need to be playing multiple jobs in order to obtain all the skills that we will need for our main job that come from other jobs. I'm sure there will be people who will try and level PUG and only PUG, but we all know with the sysstem they have in place the pure PUG without any other job's skills will be poor in compared to the PUG who has played multiple jobs and has skills to use from them.
When i see this setup being a big issue is a yr from now when your capped out on your main job, and want to level your 2nd 3rd or 4th to cap, and as you have done it all before you want to power it to cap fast. as you will likely already have the other skills from other jobs that you would also need, there will be less of a reason to switch arounc jobs and play other jobs, thus causing the fatigue to build up and not alow you to level that extra job fast.
for the obover reason i think in time the system will go away or be tweaked to where it would not effect most players for the majority of the time. But i guess only time will tell how this system will work out.
On thing that i think abbout XIV after playing XI is that it will be a long game that will not follow the rends of the main stream MMO, and it will attract a different group of players for the long run than those who play every MMO. most people say this will push the Hardcore MMOers away from the game, but imo after seeing how XI went most hardcore MMOers that are refered to by many peoples post would not stay with a SE mmo as it will be too slow to level and too much work to obtain the top gear unlike the mojority of the MMO that people constantly switch back and forth from playing. Most hardcore FFXI players that i knew played FFXI and would play another MMO now and then to test the waters and then would be back. these are the people that SE knows will switch to XIV and stick with it, and they have teacked things to bring in some of the people they lost as it was to slow to level or always required 6 people to level and had turned people away due to their play time not fitting into this setup.
just my thoughts
Yeah I really don't understand the drive behind this decision. When I get time and want to devote more than the normal daily I might have I get to be held back? Maybe it is some sort of way to manage folks that spend a TON of time on line. But it doesn't help support the foundation many of us have tried to build up for this game despite the onslaught of critisims.
END OF LINE_
~V
Meh, beats losing 10% on death imo. Also lets them regulate when people get to what level to some degree easily, so ppl can't just jam to "end" game and have buggerall to do but whine about it.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
OK OK OK.... so I read this as nothing more than rest xp like eq2, vanguard and a few other mmorpg's have. I'm wondering where it says that xp will get lower the longer you play as some have claimed? I tend not to listen to the complaints I see on websites because most of the maoning comes from ppl who haven't played seem or heard sound effects from said game so the proof of the pudding is in the eating IMHO.
Right, I ain't logged into these forums for a long time, but after reading this I just had to. To tell you this: You're a damn blithering idiot, even moreso than the rest of the idiots who find this a good idea.
First of all, I'm a beta tester, and I'm FAR from the instant gratification type, it's that reason which caused me to leave WoW and start playing FFXI.
Nobody except you gives a damn if it was in SWG, you can't fix surplus by going to cantina! You're forced to do something else! You're forced to either drop everything you're currently doing, or you're forced to get a mere fraction of the exp you should be getting.
I play MMOs for the community, I play them to party up and chat with other people, and if you weren't so dense with your head up SEs rear you'd realise this DESTROYS community! This RUINS partying! This rewards the guy who plays an MMO to play on his own for 30 minutes a week (exaggeration but it still stands), and penalises the people who have a bit more time to invest who may actually party up with others and enjoy the game's content past 30 minutes of grinding each week. The antisocial soloer who shouldn't even bother with an MMO has no problems at all, THEY are the instant gratification types, the ones that want everything in a small time frame, causing everything to be soloable and ridiculously easy to obtain, the people SE AREN'T punishing, are the ones who go aginst what you think is right, which is socialising and playing with others.
Now let's think of mr 8 hours on the weekend, he may not have much time during the week but on weekends, he'll play the game as much as he can because he ENJOYS it. He LOVES interacting with others, partying, conquering content with friends, I fall into this category, I play an MMO for the experience, and I can tell you there are a LOT more people who play a lot that play for the experience than those that play a little. So yeah, the weekend's begun, Bob logs on, plays his Marauder which is the class he enjoys most, after 2 hours he gets tired of soloing and fortunately manages to find a party.
Leader: Hey Bob, wanna join a party?
Bob: Yes please!
Leader: How long you been playing for?
Bob: 2 hours or so
Leader: Sorry, you're just gonna leave when you get surplus, bye
Bob was sad, but luckily, a few LS members partied with him, they went out and killed things for hours and hours, but suddenly, the healer hits the surplus wall
Healer: Sry guyz, gtg, 90% surplus
Bob: Ok, no problem
*Healer leaves*
Bob: Ok, anyone here got a healer leveled?
Tank: I do
Bob: So who's gonna tank for us?
All: I don't have a tank leveled
Bob: And I don't have a tank or a healer...
Tank: Ahh, don't worry, gtg anyway *leaves*
The party soon disbands, Bob had already hit 90% surplus during the party, now he was on his own, he had no choice but to switch class and carry on soloing
That's just one of maaaany problems surplus is going to create, and personally, I don't want to be part of that
Another stupid thing people have come up with is "you're gonna change class anyway, what's the problem?" and I'll tell you, why should I be told when to switch? If I want to play marauder for 6 hours unhindered, then decide ON MY OWN, WITHOUT THE GAME TELLING ME TO, that I want to level pugilist and gain some pugilist skills, that's what I want to do. I do not want to be forced to learn pugilist skills when I'm not in the mood to play pugilist, just because the game's decided I've played a single class too much. Where's the diversity gonna be if everyone's learning everything? The role players will get screwed over, if they didn't want their character to be anything but a lancer, tough, unless you're willing to slog through surplus or log out for ages, you're gonna have to be something else too.
Yes, I plan on leveling a lot of different classes, but I want to do that on my own terms, if I wanna level a single class for a day, I should be allowed to, same with any other class
And about that stupid message, every game has it, this system has nothing to do with that crap, they just want you to switch class, not switch the game off, and if people are so averse to their real life that they wanna ignore it, let them. I have responsibilities, work, family, friends, the rest of it, and I tend to all of them, because I'm responsible, and I decide when I've played enough, the game, nor SE, have the right to tell me
I'd like to see where your sources on this, because as far as I can see right now, it's all baseless.
This kind of reminds me of when I was in first grade and we all had to be escorted to lunch and everyone had to walk slow and not cut or get ahead, all of us holding hands.....
"Anthony get back here, you are level 3 and all of us are only level 2...it's not fair!! Not fair to the rest of the class....."
(slams head into wall)
So let me see if I get this right, your saying that the ONLY reason anyone plays a game is to advance at the highest posible rate. And that if thier climb to the top is hindered in anyway, that they will all simple stop playing?
No chance people will play the game for the fun of playing the game? No chance the people on that team are enjoying what they are doing and stick around to finish thier objectives? No way a person (character) would ever do anything other than ONE thing, all day, every day.
Just making sure I read all that correct, because the way you put it, everyone will be watching thier surplus 100% of the time and immediately stop playing the very second they reach too high of a %. Be damned the fun, be damned the comradere, be damned the team, who cares about enjoyment, if my numbers stop being the optimal xp/minute than there is no point in playing at all. If I want it to be the way I want it to be than I should be able to get what I want when I want it!!!!
Lets all forget about the plus side to the surplus, the hinderance to power-leveling, the hinderance to BOTs and farmers. I'm all happy if we have more of those people in a game, then we can have Aion II or Lineage III. NOT!!! Or maybe we can have more number crunching power leveled, hit level cap in a week people standing around all day biatching about how there is 'no content' even though they blew past all the content so they could say they were the first. Yeah, love those people too...umm NO!!!
And yeah I'm ok with you calling me an idiot for supporting this, but the truth is I do. I dont see any downside, you do appearantly because you made up a rather large story of how everyone you know will just not play anymore because of this. Again, I'm not finding a problem there either, I hear there is this game out there called World of Warcraft, its supposed to support the type of player you used in your story. Yeah, i'm thinking I might not miss them either if they decide this is a deal breaker for them playing this game.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
What happened to the days when majority of people never hit max level yet still played the MMO for years, and actually having fun without experiencing "end game". Hell, I played EQ1 for 3 years back in its prime and I *never* hit max level, but that wasn't a problem because the overall game was fun. Just because SE decided to put restraints on people hitting max level in just a week or two, like you can do in a lot of the current MMOs, doesn't mean it'll be a bad game. Enjoy the game for what it is, or stop complaining and go wait for SWTOR or whatever other crappy WOW-clone is coming down the pipelines over the next year.
EXACTLY
Couldn't have said it better myself.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Also, it is unclear if or how much is removed when ofline, if offline time does not change and its required playing other classes to significanly lower the fatigue then we are all in the same boat ant it will effect the hour a day gamer as much as those who play 10 hrs a day, it just takes them longer to see the effect. thou form my experiances the players who dont play as much often tend to play multiple classes and take much long (play time not just real time) to advance to the higher levels as they play to enjoy the game and have fun rather than speed to the end game.
At this point this Fatigue system has major flaws and some potential to ensure we all develope a well rounded job that will be more useful for the endgame when we get to see it in game.
One other thing that i'm not sure if i have sceen discussed here is that they are pushing for a strong player economy in game, and this can also force people to spend time developing crafts and gathering to help the economy grow and flurish. Either way once the game is out and we see how much this effects things we will see it removed or tweeked so that it is not too big of an issue based on peoples feedback thus far.
Now i'm not sure how true this next part is, but if they have not finished developing the end game or they are actually waiting to see how we shape and use our char at the current cap before finnishing the latter levels of the game to either put us back on the path they had imagined for the jobs or to make sure things are compaitble to how we are using each job. After my experiances in XI i'd lean to the latter as they always let the players do as they liked with each job, untill it over powered then they did some ballencing.
Sorry to single out a specific paragraph here, but I have to ask a few questions.
Why hinder power-leveling? What's wrong with it? How does it effect you? Do you realize that players who power-level experience the same amount of content as someone who casually does it? Just at a far quicker rate. Why are you concerned with players "bitching" that there is no content if you obviously aren't a power-leveler and will have content available when you do eventually reach endgame anyway? Why is it such a big deal to you?
How does this even hinder power-leveling? All it means is a power-leveler will switch classes when the surplus becomes too high. They'll still be leveling classes at a ridiculous rate. Their physical level will still be maxed at the same rate. It doesn't hinder power-leveling, it just hinders freedom of choice. Most power-levelers will still trudge through high surplus anyway, because as you said the end result is that they get there first.
Also how does this in any way hinder bots and farmers? Bots and farmers aren't concerned with their EXP rates, these activities aren't usually done with bots anyway (yes, farmers will physically play characters they power-level, and often times using leveling exploits that are difficult to pull off with a bot). What's going to prevent the bot AI from switching a class (done through 2 macros) and switching to a new AI pattern once the surplus (which is easy for the bot to detect) becomes too high? If you think surplus is going to be any hinderance to botting, you have no idea how bots work. Bots can still farm a specific area for drops even when they get a high surplus, or craft, or harvest, etc. Surplus doesn't effect item drop rate.
This may not be the case with XIV, but as with most all MMO the best dropps and best place to make gold/gil is from the highest level content available, thus this will hinder farmers from being able to get to the high level as fast and not be able to farm the best things (what all gold sellers would be doing).
Also if they do not care about the surplus, then guess what a GM sees XXX player has been at max surplus for a full day still farming in the same place it makes it easier to spot as a gil farmer and be watched to get banned if they are actually violating any terms of the game.
Also, if people are farming non stop after building up surplus they could add a lowered drop rate as surplus goes up to keep people from farming all day long. (I'd assume once your job rank is maxed that there is no such thing as surplus building since you are not gaining exp anyways, thus not effecting farming at the end game)
will it stop botting? no, people are smart and will find ways to write code to bot no mater how hard they try to add things to stop it, but it will add enough of a hinderance to them that they will be less of them
Not saying you are or anything, but with this quote "I want the play the game MY WAY", i really hope you arent one of those ingame that is always telling other ppl how they should play. lol
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
I don't believe I've used the term physical surplus at all in trying to explain what this was. Surplus was used to describe the exp points on the MAIN job. But while we are discussing physical level...
What is the meaning of the yellow numbers that accompanied my physical level? At one point my character had something like 5,000/75,000 under Physical Level.
I know I was not the only one who got this, so if you have some information on it I'd be grateful to know why that Physical level was yellow unless it was a glitch.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Your definition doesnt match mine appearantly, that may help to answer your question. Power Leveling is not the same as hardcore game playing. Power Leveling is the person who either pays someone to level thier character for them and has no interaction with that character until it reaches the level they payed for, or they pay in-game and sit back and watch TV while thier payed leveler farms xp for them.
A hardcore game player is more like you describe, they prefer to do extended game play sessions, with single edged objectives designed to maximize thier time/xp curve in an attempt to gain the highest level they can in the shortest amount of time. This may be to claim pride in thier achievement, or to corner the market in money and resources at an early stage in order to advance financially above thier peers.
Either one of these is actually very bad for a player driven economy, not to mention the world immersion level for everyone. Now I could go into the reasons for this statement if you so desire, but I would think they to be obvious to anyone who has played many different MMOs over the years. But if you wish, just ask and I shall.
As for hindering BOT and farmers, well thats a simple one. Most Farmer organizations are built on the same structure as every other company in the world, minimum overhead, maximum profit. Think of it as 5 guys with 10 computers and 50 accounts to the game. Each guy runs 10 accounts on 2 computers, they start thier accounts up, position thier BOTs and start thier days farming, switching in every now and then on each to see if they need to be moved or restarted. Now, add in the extra work load of having to monitor your surplus onto all 50 accounts, can the 5 guys keep up with them all, switching in and out of different setups?
The other part you need to keep in mind on farmers is the way surplus holds them back from gaining xp for being played 24/7. The best way to make money now may be farmgin crystals sure, but thats because your stuck in low end content right now. if I get (and this is only an example) 10 gil for killing one mob at low end content, and 100 gil for killing one in mid level content, and 1000 gil for one high end mob - which do you think is the desired farmer landscape? And if they are forced to 'play' the character, every one of those 50 characters, all the time, they will either have to increase thier overhead and deal with it or be stuck on the low end content making lower profits.
As far as BOTs to gain item drops, sure, not going to effect anythign right now with the way it is. But then again why exactly would anyone fight to allow any type of BOT in any game? Are you playing your game or paying money to have someone/something play it for you? Me, personally, I have issue with anyone that choses to BOT for any reason. But maybe thats just me.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Might be a glitch I haven't noticed this and I'm almost maxed (for the beta) on Physical Level at level 28. I've been playing 8 hours a day. Physical Level EXP only increases as I fight harder MOBs, in fact unlike skill EXP it stays pretty consistent based off what I'm fighting. Haven't noticed a decline, so I don't think surplus exists for it. I suppose I could be wrong and just had a bug where I didn't happen to get physical level surplus, but I'm thinking maybe it's just a UI bug for you (or has some other meaning).
If its my choice to grind for hours and hours so what? I'm fine with getting punished for doing stupid stuff so xp lost, corpse runs and even level loss is fine with me but dictating me HOW I have to play is way overboard.
I absolutely HATE creating alts, they are nothing more than more bankspace for me. So which company in his right mind would penalize people for playing a lot?! No one, fucking no one would be stupid enough.
There are times I like to craft (mostly after hitting max level) but forcing me to stop doing things I like is a gamebreakers and right now it looks like for many others too.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
You've got the wrong definition of a power leveler. Never heard anyone define the term like that. Typically hardcore refers to someone's playtime (especially when you use terms like casual to compare it too) when talking about a gamer specifically. Power leveler is the playstyle of the person. Sometimes it's refered to as achiever. It's someone who levels as fast as possible. There really isn't much else to it. I consider myself a power leveler, but I've never botted or paid someone (or even LET someone) level my accounts before.
Yes, I know how these factory like farms (which typically operate in Asian countries) are setup. I also know quite a bit about programming and how bots operate. Bots nowadays are programmed with some pretty advanced AI, able to replicate and use things like A* pathfinding and logic. You can setup them up to simply repeat patterns, or to differentate slightly when things come up. A lot of times data is collected via pixel searches and such. These people who are in charge of operating 5-10 computers are only around for two things: 1. To make sure the bot AI doesn't go out of loop and cause a problem, such as being stuck on a wall (something you'll often see happen to a bot). 2. To respond to GM tells inquiring about their botting. So again, it's not really a hinderance, especially considering how easy it is to switch classes within the game (2 macros). They probably have bot AI setup for all classes anyway and if they don't they can give a bot a bit of "pattern memory" (not sure how best to describe this) to begin working by itself with that class.
Also, I'm sorry if I'm not explaining this well. You don't seem to understand what I mean. I do admittly have trouble explaining my points well sometimes. The bots will be on the same level of progression as other "power levelers" (or hardcore gamers if you prefer that term) because they are running on 24/7. Thus, it won't be a matter of them having to catch up to whatever the endgame is, because they are already at the endgame where the best drops technically exist. Even if they did spring ahead or get left behind, there won't be enough higher level players to support an increase in drops and drop value (since there won't be a need for high level crafting mats and gear), and they are probably off sticking at the average player level of farming anyway. It's a bit of economics, which I think most of the gold farming companies understand. When they do finally reach the max level, they'll do so before the majority of the average player base anyway, and they'll be happily farming away at that point on max level, once it starts becoming the most profitable portion of the game.
I don't know what everyone is whining about, It is about time someone comes out with a game that is not completely easy to level. All mmos now are all about making it easy for players to reach the end, but why not have the feeling of accomplishment when you reach the end. I am a fan of end game content but getting there shouldn't be super easy. The system that they have now will work and I think people will end up enjoying it. We should all just be glad that this isn't going to be just another wow clone that will end up being a waste of time. I am so tired of games that there just doesn't seem like an end to the questing. I am not a fan of tedious mob grinding but I think there will be other options of the game to explore that will keep the game exciting and I think that is what SE wants to accomplish.
~Knaple~
knaple think off it that way:
Imagine you like crafting all day at some point the fatigue system is saying "you've crafted enough therefore you won't gain xp for doing so" -->they are dictating you what to do and that just plain right sucks.
Who the fuck are they telling me WHAT and HOW LONG I can do it. They want my money but don't want me to power level my way to the top? I mean, seriously this won't end well for SE.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."