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Evidence of extreme copy-paste development in FFXIV
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You, sir, are to be commended for this extremely relevant exploitation of development method. Is that you, Chris Hansen? Your unparralleled detective effort to find the truth never ceases to amaze me. Dig Dug and Pac-Man devs better watch out...
Seriously though, this weak attempt to take something negative from the game that every other mmo out there (really, most every video game, period) has received 22 pages of response? Hahaha
Yes the same thing counts for the environment generation as well. Thanks for making my point for me again.
Using todays tools and resources it is more than BAD that they are copy/pasting everything (this is far more than simple terrain) it is downright DISRESPECTFUL of the PC playerbase as a whole.
Consol games are inherently limited in what they can do with zoning different maps. This is a drawback of owning a consol. There is only so much hard drive space and memory to access incuding video memory. This has to be managed in ways such as repeating blocks of data held in a cache.
I am not reviewing this game as a consol game. This is the PC version of the game, or supposed to be. On a ps3 system for a few hundred bux this game and it's flaws would be quite acceptable.
As a PC game this game is a steaming stinking pile of rotting BANTHA POODOO.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
The PS3 costs a few hundred bux.
The PC system that SE is officially marketing for this game costs $3,700. Cut that cost in half best case and it's still ridiculous.
How anyone could defend some of these things is a mystery to me.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
So... what you're saying is, we should all keep paying for WoW, because that'll result in the quality gameplay we're looking for? Because their devs are the only ones working HARD for our money? Apparently all those people voting with their wallet voted for a MMO that'll be exactly like WoW.
I believe what they meant is with WoW making so much money, why does anyone expect devs to release a full product that has tons of variety? I got the impression the post was meant anti-WoW, not pro-WoW.
This post wasn't really about WoW in particular but about how the consumers are dictating what is being made by voting with their dollars. Contrary to what the DEVS want you to believe. We DO have the power to change it all.
As far as the guy saying it's not possible to make enough assets to not be repeatable. That's BS. Even using the indiviual assets they did have such as trees, houses, plants, rocks whatever they could have positioned them independantly and made the world seem much less modular. They chose not to do that because that would require WORK. Very little work, which is even worse.
There is no excuse. There is no hiding it. It is what it is. L-A-Z-Y. They blatantly just want your money for the least possible investment. They won't be getting any of mine.
Actually, WoW has very lazy development as it doesn't have proper multi-core support, in contrast to XIV, so it cannot utilise the full power of the latest CPUs for example. It is more or less the same game engine as released 6 years ago with some minor tweaks along the way.A videogame company wants to trick you into paying five times as much as you need to in order to run their game?
STAWP DA PRESSEZ!
Besides, find me a game where there are no repeat features that is also widely accepted as good.
How dare they disrespect the PC player base! *Turns on theme song to Star Wars* Fellow PC gamers! Hear my words! The time to rise up in defiance against video game developers is now! No longer can we be asscoiated with games to be made for the infidel, inferior console gamers. Rise up, my brothers and sisters! Join my voice! It's not about being a viable business, it's a bout catering to self-entitled, elitist narcissists! I am but one voice, but together, we can achieve greatness, and work in protest to ensure that no other of our kind has to endure another "steaming pile of rotting Bantha PooDoo..." *watches a few hours of cat-girl cartoon anime and cries self to sleep*
I am at a loss to see any point you are trying to make. Why would WoW need multicore support when the extreme vast amount of computers on earth today can run it slicker than snot on a glass doorknob?
It is widely accepted that WoW's graphics are cartoonish and generally have a charm to them that makes them pleasant for most people to look at. That is the definition of making a game with an efficient engine. I have no issues with WoW engine whatsoever.
People have been trying to make a point that games are supposed to copy/paste this much to be efficient which is ridiculous. Games that are 5-6 years older made on much inferior engines (as you just pointed out) have made their maps many times more diverse than what you will see in this FF. So now you have come full circle to further prove how inept FF is as a PC game.
If anyone would like to put their pics where their mouths are and provide screenshots of ANY game they play that has ANY 2 or more same spots with the EXACT same terrain and landmarks, please feel free to post them. This would be interesting.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Altho the graphics look kinda nice, thats basically a no-go for me. wheres the feeling of adventure in that case ;(
Translation: I don't like things that don't cater to my specific tastes, so I'll waste my time attempting to convince others that my opinion is the only logical one. Oh my lord! How could someone like something that I don't!? I think my head is gonna explode... I know... I'll start a whine thread that'll go at least 23 pages, and I can pontificate about how my PC is elite, and about the things that I dislike with a video game...
Every thread that you have posted in that has to do with this game is bashing people that have discovered flaws. You offer no insight, no opinions, no intelligent debate whatsoever.
All you have done is throw insults.
Try harder to have a point and to STAY ON TOPIC.
Personal insults and attacks should not be tolerated and should be dealt with in good time.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Ah, so you admit that WoW uses an inferior engine...we are making a little progress here. As for the map point, as I wrote earlier simply post some of your own OB screenshots of the features you think are cut-and-paste and bother you. I think given your fondness for WoW I would have to point out that a lot of its dungeons and raids cut and paste the same features over and over, at its worst their Molten Core raid looked pretty samey all over as far as the scenery went...
While I do hate coming back to talk about WoW, I need to because your comment is just so far off.
Yes, when WoW was released, it didn't have multi core support. Key word is released by the way. I'll give you a bit to think that through.
Done? Okay, did you realize that dual cores didn't become the standard until a few years ago? After WoW was released? Did you even take into account the amount of years it took to develop WoW? When most people were still running on single cores? Plus, you do know of the engine WoW utilizes, correct? Blizzard had to do some heavy tweaking to enable all the fancy features the game has now, so calling them lazy is completely asinine. It's basically the Warcraft III engine for Gods sake. They've tweaked it to hell and back.
In your hindsight (as short as it may be), XIV should be utilized to take advantage of hex cores+. But all OB shows us is that it only uses 2 threads. That's right, 2. Who are we calling lazy now? Like XI before it, people will be hitting a CPU bottleneck within a year.
Get your facts straight before trashing one developer to come to the rescue of another.
SE isn't lazy, they just focused and spent a ridiculous amount of time and resources on visuals. And they didn't even do that right. MMO players are picky. Most could care less about graphic qualities. If it plays like crap, it will kill the immersion. And that's exactly what SE did.
I do not play or enjoy wow. I simply stated that the engine is efficient and can handle the job of having terrain that isn't repeated several times all over every map. In that regard the engine seems superior to one that cannot accomplish the same task. That is as easy as I can explain it for you.
The capability for an engine to include HDR lighting and high density models makes the game prettier. It does not make a game "better" or more fun. Not at all.
Try harder to read the posts more carefully and actually understand the content that is typed.
I have read in this, and other posts your demeaning comments towards WoW players. This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread and is a personal issue within yourself. You seem to bring up that game over and over and over like it has some basis of relevance which it does not.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
No sir.
I was saying that you'll find reuses art assets in basically every game. Developers rarely ever, and even more so in an MMO, hand sculpt every asset. That's why they have tilesets.
CoH has like 5 total dungeon. Play for more then an hour and you'll find yourself running through the exact same dungeon more then once.
I'm saying that you keep telling everyone not to discuss any other game; yet every other game is evidence of your complaint with FFIV.
Real life sucks. Everywhere I turn I see the same exact crap. My house looks like the every other one on my stree, every were I go I see my car, the exact same tree, hell I've seen the same people copy pasted. We should all stop playing the game of life. It's just lazy design.
SE went to such a lot of trouble optimising XIV for the current generation of quad-core processors, it does take full advantage of a Core i7 processor along with a well-matched GPU to deliver stunning visuals for example. As for how it plays...just fine on my system. WoW is a six year-old game, sorry but the graphics aren't very good anymore.
But doing in this way leads to very basic landscape, as its only using X,Y,Z to simulate it. you initially won't get things like cliffs, overhangs ect. These would have to be added in. Thats why you see so many sloped sides. Age of Conan seems very different to this technique also, it seems more 3D than other games - Connals valley is a great example (i have not looked, but i guess there is re-used terrain there also) The OP shows the map where the landscape is very corridor based, and it can twist upon itself to create bridges over these corridors. With out handcrafting landscape its just not possible - and the work involved to make every single place unique is just not realistic.
I personally would take hand crafted - repeated (as it can be disguised by folliage ect) - more 3D terrain over fully generated X,Y,Z terrain anyday.
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
It has already been discussed that this game uses whol plots of land, with everything on that land, over and over and over. Other games use individual resources over and over and over. There is a huge difference. We should not need to go through this again since it has been extensively explored already.
CoH does not have "like 5 dungeon". If you open the mission design panel you will clearly see several dozen layout options for all different map types. That was a good story though.
CoH missions are a different animal to it's "maps". Missions are instanced and the "maps" of the actual cities in COH do not contain the same exact plots of land used over and over. The layouts are completely different.
Not only does your comment not defend FF but it brings to light yet another game that does not exibit the same incompetence that has been shown in the development of this FF game.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
As I said above, post some of your own screenshots to demonstrate your point of bad game design in XIV, without that you haven't a point, and moreover probably haven't played the game in any depth.
By the way I know a game with way more reuse:
Star Trek Online
Really? lets see some screenshots that show this "way more reuse" in action.
I thought it was mainly a space game myself which would seem to not require much terrain. The instanced missions on land would require some sort of terrain though I would geuss. Does it use the same plots of land and every landmark on that land over and over? I wouldn't know because I don't play it. Somehow I'm going to have to think that it doesn't.
Seems the comparison is pretty bad since ST is a space game and FF is a land based fantasy game. But feel free to post screenshots for proof. Somehow I don't think you will do that either.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I'm aware there's more then 5 maps in CoH guy.
You don't seem to grasp that your complaining about something that is COMMON in game development. Or you do, but don't care that other games do it, it's just that SE did it.
Seriously, you can't find anything real to complain about with FFIV? If not, that's pretty good news for SE. YOU can't tell people not to buy the game for nothing more then reused art assets. Not that many gamers are that shallow; so it'll hardly hurt them.
Crusade away big guy.
I don't know why you keep posting comments that have no point.
STAY ON TOPIC and stop repeating nonsense. Move on if that's too hard for you.
Screenshots have been provided on page 1 and 2. They are clearly from the FF OB. You clearly have some sort of personal issues that I'm going to ignore now.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I've decided I'm going to buy like 4 copies of the game now.
Thanks for making up my mind.
Sadly I do not play it anymore so I can not offer screens but most of their content for the ground missions is created randomly and uses some kind of auto generation out of the box, which like let you see the same space station for several times, not to mention the same few planets and the whole in space combat areas are the same as well, only a few places are kind of unique.
Not to mention that the space map you use to reach the places are pretty empty as well.
You are comparing reused art assets such as individual items to whole plots of land repeated with said items still attached. I can not help you if you can not see the difference as I've already tried to expain it to you. Please re-read the entire thread and try much harder to comprehend the differences between the two methods. They are obvious.
Smart mouth comments towards me shows how uncomfortable these issues make you.
This thread has already been viewed like 4000 times in one day. On other forums and video sites the same is happening all over the planet. It's a big internet. The rule of thumb is that for every person you tell they will tell 7 more. Think about how fast knowledge can travel under those conditions.
Many people have stated their thanks and that they are not going to fall for the scam this time. That in itself is good news for PC gamers and the entire point of this exercise. Instead of random attacks on people that bring to light flaws with current generation MMO's you as MMO fans should be thankful that there is equal amounts of information out there in the world both good and bad. You can never have to much information about a potential product you (or your mom) is going to buy. If you want to spend you cash on this game after you have seen the evidence of how bad it is then that is your personal decision so have at.
[quote]
[i]Originally posted by Uhwop[/i]
[b]I've decided I'm going to buy like 4 copies of the game now.[/b]
[b]Thanks for making up my mind.[/b]
[/quote]
That's cute. I really enjoy these meaningless random nonsense posts. Not really.
Please in the future try to come up with something that is both relevant and in a best case scenario thought provoking and ON TOPIC.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"