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Could FFXIV subscriptions pass WoW

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  • FreeBooteRFreeBooteR Member Posts: 333

    I think this snoregrind is depending on popularity of it's long gone IP past. It won't touch WoW but will have a faithful and rabid niche base.

    Archlinux ftw

  • KaocanKaocan Member UncommonPosts: 1,270

    Originally posted by FreeBooteR

    I think this snoregrind is depending on popularity of it's long gone IP past. It won't touch WoW but will have a faithful and rabid niche base.

     I find this humerous actually, as I see this when I look at the Cataclysm expansion. How many people have already pre-ordered this thing, with no release date set, and no personal testing of it? Talk about a faithful and rabid niche base.

    (DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)

  • Miles-ProwerMiles-Prower Member Posts: 1,106

    Originally posted by Kaocan

    Originally posted by FreeBooteR

    I think this snoregrind is depending on popularity of it's long gone IP past. It won't touch WoW but will have a faithful and rabid niche base.

     I find this humerous actually, as I see this when I look at the Cataclysm expansion. How many people have already pre-ordered this thing, with no release date set, and no personal testing of it? Talk about a faithful and rabid niche base.

    Well, that argument is kinda moot. People who play WoW are obviously going to pre-order Cataclysm because they can expect more of the same out of the game. This is the third expansion for the game. You can't really compare an Expansion to a Fresh out of the oven MMORPG.

    Sorry.. Just playing Devil's Advocate here.

     

    ~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

    imageimageimage
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    Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
  • WinnTechWinnTech Member UncommonPosts: 71

    Well, something has to, but unfortunately I don't think that Final Fantasy XIV will manage to do so. I don't speak for them all, but I will say that WoW I enjoyed for 5 years on and off. I don't play it now (for some reason I am still subscribed) but even from Square's first attempt at an MMO, I was not impressed. Heck, I fell asleep playing after about 30 minutes. Disappointed is a bit of a understatement.

    When I play a PC game, I guess I like to play a PC game. Not a console port that plays like a console game, a PC game. Square is stuck on the whole console interface. I am still bitter over the lack of ability to jump. I like to jump, not excessively, but I like to jump. Killed myself quite a few times in Vanguard and lost count in WoW.

    As far as FF XIV, I think it has a few nice "Bright Shinies" but when it comes down to it, the game feels more like a PS3 game than a PC game. I am not a fanboy of any game with the exception of Master of Magic (now that is old school) and Oblivion. The failure points that were in the original FF MMO seem to still be an issue with their new incarnation of FF the MMO.

    Just my opinion, there are plenty of em, but I just don't think that FF XIV will be the giant slayer. I couldn't tolerate the Open Beta for an hour. Well, at least this newer FF MMO didn't put me to sleep.

    WinnTech

  • jaxsundanejaxsundane Member Posts: 2,776

    I don't think FF is going to come close to WOW numbers and that's just going from the idea that they don't seem all that interested in designing the game to gain the maximum number of subs possible, while a company like Bioware seems to be going the opposite way in trying to design the game to be easily accessible to the masses.

    Everything I know about FF tells me this is going to be a game that holds it's niche but will still like the FF mmo before it be a niche game which in my opinion is not really a bad thing.

    but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....

  • NesrieNesrie Member Posts: 648

    I think FFXIV is going to have a hard time beating out some of the other more popular MMOs, certainly not even close to WoW numbers.

    parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.

  • DaxPierceDaxPierce Member Posts: 172

    Originally posted by Dreadstone


    Stay with me a minute, lol.   I know this sounds like another 'WoW killer' troll post but it’s really an economic/culture/political question that came to mind after reading SE’s Sept. 16 announcement.  If you aren’t interested in those types of discussions, read no further!


     


    Try to put aside your personal feelings about FFXIV (or WoW).  Look at the question as about MMOs from different economic/cultural/political regions.  And whether which MMO ends up with the largest subscriptions has long-term economic/political implications.


     


    The motivation for this post comes from SE’s announcement that FFXIV would be offered in mainland China.  This would be the first FF product offered in China.


     


    We know from released numbers that WoW has somewhere between 10.5 and 11.5 million paid subscribers.  We know that a huge number of those subs are from China.  It is probable that WoW Cataclysm will hold and possibly increase those subscription numbers.


     


    We can tell from pre-order numbers for NA that FFXIV will most likely do at least OK in NA and we can assume the same will be true for the EU.  And from previous FF results FFXIV will be a blockbuster in Japan.  I expect there’s a lot of FFXIV that was influenced by Japanese culture,  I would also think that there are many similarities between Japanese and Chinese cultures.  At least as compared to similarities to US vs. Chinese cultures.  That could give an edge to FFXIV.


     


    Massively.com reported in an article in 2008 that as of 2007 China had 46 million online gamers which was growing annually.  Winning over the existing online Chinese gaming market could easily surpass WoW’s current numbers for either company.  If FFXIV wins the battle for China do you think that would have broader implications?  We all know there are current references to the ‘Western World’ based on the cultural similarities between many ‘western’ countries and the economic advantages of marketing products to nations with similar cultures.  So would FFXIV surpassing WoW with Chinese subscribers indicate the end to ancient political hostilities between the two countries and the beginnings of a powerful new ‘Eastern World’ economic block?


     


    Note:  Yes, these are the kind of strange, esoteric questions that run through my mind when I’m waiting for a game to launch and getting bored.:)   So just thought I'd put on my tinfoil hat and see if anyone else thinks about this kind of stuff.

     LOL no. It will NEVER reach wow's sub until it is able to provide customer service, languages, and servers outside of Japan. Lets not forget about FF's die hard way of not adapting to western MMOs (UI, controls, strange play). Im sure FF will never die, and will do great its first year. Unless SE plans on accomodating the United States/Canada/Euro, it will never even come close to Blizzard.

  • MisterSrMisterSr Member UncommonPosts: 928

    No it won't, in my opinion nothing will EVER do as well as World of Warcraft; it was an anomaly that lead to a boom in the MMO industry. If you look at the variables that existed in 2004 and the ones that exist in the present, 2010, I think it is evident that the market is greatly varied now. The only reason WoW can retain these numbers is because it has a long standing track record of success, and people often like to stick with the, "Well if it ain't broken, don't fix it." state of mind. Honestly, unless something can pull from every corner of the market, I doubt any P2P game will ever do so well. 

  • MuruganMurugan Member Posts: 1,494

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Miles-Prower


    Originally posted by Ruethus


    Originally posted by Miles-Prower


    Originally posted by Ruethus


    Originally posted by Miles-Prower


    Originally posted by Ruethus

    Anythings possible, but not probable.  Besides, massive subs would really only benefit SE (Which is fine), but part of what killed me on WoW was the amazing amount of idiocy and asshats that come with giant sub numbers.  Every game has it's morons, but... they can keep WoW - Cat, I'll stick with FFXIV.

    Talk about hypocrisy..

     

    ~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

     

    In what way?  I want FFXIV to be successful, but would hate to see it filled with the same type of community that populates WoW now...  Perhaps you missunderstood what I was trying to say.

    Just saying that your behavior is no better than the people you "Claim" populate WoW.

     

    ~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

      /shrug    I see your bait and I am not bitting sir.

    Oh, sorry. That's just one of my tails in the water. They're so big and fluffy, they tend to get all over the place!

     

    ~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

    Hey I agree with ya Tails, "hating" on people isn't cool, even if its hating on haters.

    No need for negative attitudes folks.

    I'm sorry and you can see this as "hating" on people if you want, but I played WoW and it is true the number one thing that did it in for me in that game was the community.

     

    FFXI's community may not have been perfect, but I thought it was stellar in comparison and I too would rather have a small following than the type of community which I feel WoW has fostered. 

     

    Now, I know people who play WoW that don't fit the stereotype, however in the end servers are limited communities and the more people like that which you have playing your game the more likely you will be stuck on a server with them as the majority.  I realize the current trend in MMO's is to find a guild and be completly insular which I find extremely elitist.  For me a community is the whole server, and grouping with the strangers is very telling of that community. 

     

    I find it ironic that WoW advocates accuse FFXI/FFXIV fans of being elitist for wanting to avoid this, when often times their advice for avoiding the less desirables within their community is to "stick within your guild".  Back in the day we played with everyone, and by end game pretty much everyone in my level range I considered a friend I could count on and wanted to play with.

  • SpellforgedSpellforged Member UncommonPosts: 458

    FFXIV will achieve moderate success, but it will never come close to World of Warcraft.  It may be Final Fantasy, but only die hard fans and previous subscribers of FFXI are preordering it.  I've found that most casual fans didn't like FFXI and won't like FFXIV either.  The high requirements, fatigue system, copy/pasted terrain, and general amount of time required to get anywhere will keep most people at bay.

    image
  • GolominGolomin Member Posts: 141

    Sorry to say, but this game is full sail to fail. A game like this will not succeed  in today's market. You must have all essential components working seemlessly (like in WoW), and this game failed that like no other.

    Sure, you can think you're special for playing a sub-par beta grind. But, in the end you will probably just continue liking the smell of your own smug farts. Oh yeah, I gaurentee you that there are many, many more adults in WoW than there is in FFXIV. True story.

    One last note: Anyone else find it funny that they are running to other markets of less actual good MMORPG influence?

  • PresbytierPresbytier Member UncommonPosts: 424

    Originally posted by Murugan

    Originally posted by Laughing-man


    Originally posted by Miles-Prower


    Originally posted by Ruethus


    Originally posted by Miles-Prower


    Originally posted by Ruethus


    Originally posted by Miles-Prower


    Originally posted by Ruethus

    Anythings possible, but not probable.  Besides, massive subs would really only benefit SE (Which is fine), but part of what killed me on WoW was the amazing amount of idiocy and asshats that come with giant sub numbers.  Every game has it's morons, but... they can keep WoW - Cat, I'll stick with FFXIV.

    Talk about hypocrisy..

     

    ~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

     

    In what way?  I want FFXIV to be successful, but would hate to see it filled with the same type of community that populates WoW now...  Perhaps you missunderstood what I was trying to say.

    Just saying that your behavior is no better than the people you "Claim" populate WoW.

     

    ~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

      /shrug    I see your bait and I am not bitting sir.

    Oh, sorry. That's just one of my tails in the water. They're so big and fluffy, they tend to get all over the place!

     

    ~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

    Hey I agree with ya Tails, "hating" on people isn't cool, even if its hating on haters.

    No need for negative attitudes folks.

    I'm sorry and you can see this as "hating" on people if you want, but I played WoW and it is true the number one thing that did it in for me in that game was the community.

     

    FFXI's community may not have been perfect, but I thought it was stellar in comparison and I too would rather have a small following than the type of community which I feel WoW has fostered. 

     

    Now, I know people who play WoW that don't fit the stereotype, however in the end servers are limited communities and the more people like that which you have playing your game the more likely you will be stuck on a server with them as the majority.  I realize the current trend in MMO's is to find a guild and be completly insular which I find extremely elitist.  For me a community is the whole server, and grouping with the strangers is very telling of that community. 

     

    I find it ironic that WoW advocates accuse FFXI/FFXIV fans of being elitist for wanting to avoid this, when often times their advice for avoiding the less desirables within their community is to "stick within your guild".  Back in the day we played with everyone, and by end game pretty much everyone in my level range I considered a friend I could count on and wanted to play with.

    First let me start off by saying that the problem with any number of people is just that they are people. So, either way you swing it people who are asses will be asses no matter what the game is. The fact is even in small games you are still just as likely to run into as many asses as in a larger game.

    "Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by Presbytier

    Originally posted by Ujirik

    FFXIV will achieve moderate success, but it will never come close to World of Warcraft.  It may be Final Fantasy, but only die hard fans and previous subscribers of FFXI are preordering it.  I've found that most casual fans didn't like FFXI and won't like FFXIV either.  The high requirements, fatigue system, copy/pasted terrain, and general amount of time required to get anywhere will keep most people at bay.

    I really wish the copy and paste argument would just end; it is considerably silly.

     

    I'm not sure how a valid complaint regarding the hash job on terrain is "considerably silly".  What is getting silly is clueless people trying to claim FF XIV is hardcore and complex, while defending sub-standard features and design decisions.  Having to figure things out doesn't make something complex, it just means its poorly documented.

     

    Anyway, no FF XIV won't even come close to WoW's level of subscribers.  Its likely to settle at less than what FF XI currently is, given the community that's mostly interested in it will end up being split between the two games.

  • tikitiki Member Posts: 395

    Silly question, FFXIV will be way to hardcore for the masses.  The only way for a game to surpass WoW in subscriptions would be to make an easier game.

    East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
    --------------------
    Current game: DAOC

    Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.

    Waiting on: Earthrise

    Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus

  • PresbytierPresbytier Member UncommonPosts: 424

    Originally posted by Golomin

    Sorry to say, but this game is full sail to fail. A game like this will not succeed  in today's market. You must have all essential components working seemlessly (like in WoW), and this game failed that like no other.

    Sure, you can think you're special for playing a sub-par beta grind. But, in the end you will probably just continue liking the smell of your own smug farts. Oh yeah, I gaurentee you that there are many, many more adults in WoW than there is in FFXIV. True story.

    One last note: Anyone else find it funny that they are running to other markets of less actual good MMORPG influence?

    How will it fail and what do you consider to be the essential components to be? I ask this because while I did find some problems with Beta I did find the overall experience enjoyable, and I am someone who normally loaths JRPGs. Also you really do not seem to have a point; you only reinforce the stereotype that WoW players are just asses.

    "Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  • PresbytierPresbytier Member UncommonPosts: 424

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by Presbytier


    Originally posted by Ujirik

    FFXIV will achieve moderate success, but it will never come close to World of Warcraft.  It may be Final Fantasy, but only die hard fans and previous subscribers of FFXI are preordering it.  I've found that most casual fans didn't like FFXI and won't like FFXIV either.  The high requirements, fatigue system, copy/pasted terrain, and general amount of time required to get anywhere will keep most people at bay.

    I really wish the copy and paste argument would just end; it is considerably silly.

     

    I'm not sure how a valid complaint regarding the hash job on terrain is "considerably silly".  What is getting silly is clueless people trying to claim FF XIV hardcore and complex.

     

    Anyway, no FF XIV won't even come close to WoW's level of subscribers.  Its likely to settle at less than what FF XI currently is, given the community that's mostly interested in it will end up being split between the two games.

    I want you to find me one MMO that does not reuse textures, just one. The fact is that FFXIV is probably one of the prettiest MMOs to come out in a long time (though GW2 might even surpass it and I guarantee that it will reuse textures in places as well); the copy and paste argument has been debunked in several threads already. Rehashing the arguments would be pointless since your only desire is to complain about FFXIV any ways.

    "Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by Presbytier

    Originally posted by grapevine


    Originally posted by Presbytier


    Originally posted by Ujirik

    FFXIV will achieve moderate success, but it will never come close to World of Warcraft.  It may be Final Fantasy, but only die hard fans and previous subscribers of FFXI are preordering it.  I've found that most casual fans didn't like FFXI and won't like FFXIV either.  The high requirements, fatigue system, copy/pasted terrain, and general amount of time required to get anywhere will keep most people at bay.

    I really wish the copy and paste argument would just end; it is considerably silly.

     

    I'm not sure how a valid complaint regarding the hash job on terrain is "considerably silly".  What is getting silly is clueless people trying to claim FF XIV hardcore and complex.

     

    Anyway, no FF XIV won't even come close to WoW's level of subscribers.  Its likely to settle at less than what FF XI currently is, given the community that's mostly interested in it will end up being split between the two games.

    I want you to find me one MMO that does not reuse textures, just one. The fact is that FFXIV is probably one of the prettiest MMOs to come out in a long time (though GW2 might even surpass it and I guarantee that it will reuse textures in places as well); the copy and paste argument has been debunked in several threads already. Rehashing the arguments would be pointless since your only desire is to complain about FFXIV any ways.

     

    Wandering off topic, however its not that they are reused.  Its how much and visably apparent it is.   No MMO does it anywhere near as much as FF XIV.  I also didn't bring up the subject.  While FF XIV does look good on a high spec PC, there are better looking MMOs around (just not many).  Poor terrain design is common in Asian grinders, and FF XIV for sure suffers in the same way.   Now lets move back on topic. :)

  • darksage429darksage429 Member Posts: 4

    Let me start by saying I have played this game while it was in beta.  This game is designed for the hardcore casual player.  Not a hardcore player, not a casual player, but a hardcore casual player.  That is, the casual player who is willing to go out of their way to like and play a game so that they may eventually reach a casual mode.

    The design of the game is frustrating, and smart people will see why SE designed it this way.  It's not unplayable, but in my 15+ years of 20+ hours a week gaming, I've never felt more unsatisfied by a game.  Perhaps I expected too much and received too little, but Square Enix can no longer seem to deliver a game worth more than $20.

    That said, initial subscriptions will be high.  I expect to see that number drop, but it will rise again when console version ships.  From there, it will drop again.. and if the price makes it to $20 before it falls apart, subscriptions will perhaps go up (assuming Square Enix actually patches up all the nice little fun bugs).

  • PresbytierPresbytier Member UncommonPosts: 424

    Originally posted by darksage429

    Let me start by saying I have played this game while it was in beta.  This game is designed for the hardcore casual player.  Not a hardcore player, not a casual player, but a hardcore casual player.  That is, the casual player who is willing to go out of their way to like and play a game so that they may eventually reach a casual mode.

    The design of the game is frustrating, and smart people will see why SE designed it this way.  It's not unplayable, but in my 15+ years of 20+ hours a week gaming, I've never felt more unsatisfied by a game.  Perhaps I expected too much and received too little, but Square Enix can no longer seem to deliver a game worth more than $20.

    That said, initial subscriptions will be high.  I expect to see that number drop, but it will rise again when console version ships.  From there, it will drop again.. and if the price makes it to $20 before it falls apart, subscriptions will perhaps go up (assuming Square Enix actually patches up all the nice little fun bugs).

    Overall SE has always been known for their quality products; while I will admit that I never played FFXI I can say with full confidence that by their other games alone they will probably polish this up. Unfortunately with MMOs this normally takes more time then most players desire.

    "Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615

    Originally posted by Presbytier

    Originally posted by darksage429

    Let me start by saying I have played this game while it was in beta.  This game is designed for the hardcore casual player.  Not a hardcore player, not a casual player, but a hardcore casual player.  That is, the casual player who is willing to go out of their way to like and play a game so that they may eventually reach a casual mode.

    The design of the game is frustrating, and smart people will see why SE designed it this way.  It's not unplayable, but in my 15+ years of 20+ hours a week gaming, I've never felt more unsatisfied by a game.  Perhaps I expected too much and received too little, but Square Enix can no longer seem to deliver a game worth more than $20.

    That said, initial subscriptions will be high.  I expect to see that number drop, but it will rise again when console version ships.  From there, it will drop again.. and if the price makes it to $20 before it falls apart, subscriptions will perhaps go up (assuming Square Enix actually patches up all the nice little fun bugs).

    Overall SE has always been known for their quality products; while I will admit that I never played FFXI I can say with full confidence that by their other games alone they will probably polish this up. Unfortunately with MMOs this normally takes more time then most players desire.


    That’s true for all other titles other than the MMO attempt. For a second run at this, you would think people would expect more from the title, and publisher.

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Member UncommonPosts: 1,592

    I honestly hope FFXIV doesn't reach WoW level subscribers, mainly because it's only possible to do so if you're catering to the lowest common denominator, and I like FFXIV because of its differences, not its similarities to WoW.

    <3

  • Hellfyre420Hellfyre420 Member Posts: 861

    Originally posted by jackmcleod

    Well i was thinking of buying the game along with 7-8 more people.

    When my friend sent me the link where they say they limit levelling so that the gap between casual and hardcore players will be closer , we read :

    "We don't think you will like this game long enough to keep playing for two months unless we limit the speed at which you progress to allow us to make money while still developping unfinished content"

    --------

    Waiting on GW2 (but they want to give TOR a chance, we'll see what happens)

     

    PS: Only wound up in this thread because I wanted to see fanbois say yes, but obviously they realise its crappy too, but since they dont want to play WoW theyll play this. Some even mention they dont mind a subpar product.... WTF?  Oh well, we shall see how it fares next year.

    Yea im right there with you.. IMO it's features like this and being luanched w/o pvp that will make this game get no where close to WoW.. Even WoW would suffer if all the sudden one day they completley wiped pvp then added a cap on the xp earned each day lol


    image

    Currently Playing:
    Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta

  • geldonyetichgeldonyetich Member Posts: 1,340
    Originally posted by Hellfyre420


    Originally posted by jackmcleod

    Well i was thinking of buying the game along with 7-8 more people.
    When my friend sent me the link where they say they limit levelling so that the gap between casual and hardcore players will be closer , we read :
    "We don't think you will like this game long enough to keep playing for two months unless we limit the speed at which you progress to allow us to make money while still developping unfinished content"
    --------
    Waiting on GW2 (but they want to give TOR a chance, we'll see what happens)
     
    PS: Only wound up in this thread because I wanted to see fanbois say yes, but obviously they realise its crappy too, but since they dont want to play WoW theyll play this. Some even mention they dont mind a subpar product.... WTF?  Oh well, we shall see how it fares next year.

    Yea im right there with you.. IMO it's features like this and being luanched w/o pvp that will make this game get no where close to WoW.. Even WoW would suffer if all the sudden one day they completley wiped pvp then added a cap on the xp earned each day lol

    So, have you two seen the FFXIV Tactics video on the Fatigue system and remain unconvinced?

  • monarc333monarc333 Member UncommonPosts: 622

    Simple answer is no. Not even close. FF is too niche and doesnt have the fluidty in gameplay that WoW has.

  • StampedeStampede Member Posts: 37

    Originally posted by Rogosh

    Haha FFXIV is terrible. Logged into beta did each area and logged out. Beautiful game with sluggish mechanics.

     

    I didn't experience much sluggishness. It's my understanding that what sluggishness there is, is due to debugging software running in the background. If so, you may want to re-evaluate the game.

     

    As for the OP, I just want the game to do well. If it does TOO well it will probably be a victim of its own success in unforeseen ways.

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