Well you have to understand people are disillusioned and grumpy , most MMO players are burned out .
1 they feel used and abused by the community or product they supported with there heart and soul .
2 Meeting new and interesting people is getting harder and harder , while old times you didn´t had to use voice chat .
Vents and Teamspeak are the norm these days and webcame is getting more and more in , so actually fooling somebody for long time is lot harder .
3 The negativity around this product has to do with SWG , sony decided to change the game and totally ignore community feedback , LAST MMO that community riot played a role .
(Nowadays Blizzard wow dont care anymore about community riots , and community plays less sense then subscribers.
Remember old MMO players want to think they make a impact in the game .
That there reasoning is understood or followed , new mmo players just yell there demands and wont budge one bit .
But old mmo players will quit and stop paying , new pfttt they cancel then when candy comes flock back to the product .)
4 Roleplay is a bit dead for the new generation , they dont understand roleplay .. for the next generation roleplay is just a means to a end , either dating cybering find a temp companion or just drama and jokes .
Everybody wants to be heared but nobody wants to listen !! .
So in a sense most people are negative about this product , cause they are negative about MMO itself .
Some people are negative cause they are afraid there product will lose important players .
You can´t raid with only 14 year old kids if all goes well it goes well , but one wipe the blaim game starts .
But strangely visited bioware swtor forums today , usual garbage crap of idiots , but suprise suprise !!!
It was moderated and was funning how many NWN players still lurking around there without posting .
So I for one see the game very postive , even a reunion with the NORTH AMERICAN side of bioware fans , going to be a laughter .
I'm just answering the title of the topic, so please excuse my ignorance if I missed something.
There is negativity on just about every MMO gaming website about every MMO. Some communitites are a bit less forgiving than others, and this happens to be one of them. If it is a good game, people will play it. It won't matter what anyone here thinks. Once it's released, you can make your own judgements about the game with hands-on experience.
9 times out of 10 if a game gets negative posts on this site it means it's doing something right. This community isn't known for showering praises on games that have a chance at success.
Typical threads on new games/models consist of both extremes duking it out. Sometimes one extreme is justified, other times the other extreme is justified. I think TOR will hold its own weight, jmho.
This was the premise of my post with the reverse being true of over hyped games, but some posts here in this thread have differing opinions based on their perception of the history of certain games, so I guess only time will tell.
Well you have to understand people are disillusioned and grumpy , most MMO players are burned out .
1 they feel used and abused by the community or product they supported with there heart and soul .
2 Meeting new and interesting people is getting harder and harder , while old times you didn´t had to use voice chat .
Vents and Teamspeak are the norm these days and webcame is getting more and more in , so actually fooling somebody for long time is lot harder .
3 The negativity around this product has to do with SWG , sony decided to change the game and totally ignore community feedback , LAST MMO that community riot played a role .
(Nowadays Blizzard wow dont care anymore about community riots , and community plays less sense then subscribers.
Remember old MMO players want to think they make a impact in the game .
That there reasoning is understood or followed , new mmo players just yell there demands and wont budge one bit .
But old mmo players will quit and stop paying , new pfttt they cancel then when candy comes flock back to the product .)
4 Roleplay is a bit dead for the new generation , they dont understand roleplay .. for the next generation roleplay is just a means to a end , either dating cybering find a temp companion or just drama and jokes .
Everybody wants to be heared but nobody wants to listen !! .
So in a sense most people are negative about this product , cause they are negative about MMO itself .
Some people are negative cause they are afraid there product will lose important players .
You can´t raid with only 14 year old kids if all goes well it goes well , but one wipe the blaim game starts .
But strangely visited bioware swtor forums today , usual garbage crap of idiots , but suprise suprise !!!
It was moderated and was funning how many NWN players still lurking around there without posting .
So I for one see the game very postive , even a reunion with the NORTH AMERICAN side of bioware fans , going to be a laughter .
an interesting response. Maybe a new feature in games will should be age filters based on individual accounts. Like I want to play only with those 21+, but that will never happen lol. Anyway, thats a different thread I can start haha
I'm just answering the title of the topic, so please excuse my ignorance if I missed something.
There is negativity on just about every MMO gaming website about every MMO. Some communitites are a bit less forgiving than others, and this happens to be one of them. If it is a good game, people will play it. It won't matter what anyone here thinks. Once it's released, you can make your own judgements about the game with hands-on experience.
The title works lol. Anyway, you are right, only time will tell, but this game seems to have a lot more negatively as compared to for instance the GW2 forum, so I'll be curious 4+ months into each game whether there is any correlation to the hype. Regardless, I totally agree that if the game is good, it generally does well in that 4+ month period. Some games with great marketing and hype do well months 1-3 then fade much quicker then they would like.
I'm just answering the title of the topic, so please excuse my ignorance if I missed something.
There is negativity on just about every MMO gaming website about every MMO. Some communitites are a bit less forgiving than others, and this happens to be one of them. If it is a good game, people will play it. It won't matter what anyone here thinks. Once it's released, you can make your own judgements about the game with hands-on experience.
The title works lol. Anyway, you are right, only time will tell, but this game seems to have a lot more negatively as compared to for instance the GW2 forum, so I'll be curious 4+ months into each game whether there is any correlation to the hype. Regardless, I totally agree that if the game is good, it generally does well in that 4+ month period. Some games due to great marketing and hype do well months 1-3 then fade much quicker then they would like.
I think most players are a bit more forgiving with GW considering it is a F2P. That might not be the only reason, but it's not like you're losing money over a poorly designed game. Over 4 million players play GW1, and from what I've read they are improving the game across the board. So I can't see where there would be many complaints. Just my two cents.
I would say negativity from sandbox fans is good for TOR as long as the game has an open world....which is it supposed to have.
Lack of forced PVP....this is a problem why? If your customers are PVE gamers, they sure wont be complaining about a lack of FFA.
Lack of reliance on Uncle Owen.....this is a problem why? What is the total percentage of dedicated crafters in MMOs? I would wager it is less than 10%. So should a game revolve a game around that group, or where the far majority of the subs is gonna come from?
Lack of being able to place houses....this is a problem why? The devs are paid to produce content, and I see no problem with them making the landscape in the manner they see fit.
These are just a few things I have seen sandboxers complain about gaming. In a game centered around PVE, the only thing that might be cool would be housing....in an instanced manner ala TOR is doing. There is no need for Uncle Owen to sell ya gear when you are out questing/raiding/whatever to get your gear. And there sure is no need to be forced to PVP if all you are interested in is PVE.
So as I stated prior....the fact the sandbox folks cant stand this game means good things IMO. Granted it could launch a buggy mess, with no content....but after all the money, and time in developmen, I doubt it will.
You know, this kind of thinking saddens me. When did MMO gaming became "we versus the other group"?
So many are thankful they have their plaything, and to hell with those who want other stuff in a game as well. Like crafters or people who like housing.
IMVPO a great game has to offer something for many, and not shut them out because they may be only smaller in numbers than others. It is what makes a really good game round. You meet many different people doing different things. Even if I don't craft, the very existence of a crafter community made a MMO feel richer and more rounded for me. And then, there is that simple generosity to enjoy that other people get something for their own fun to play as well, even if it's not your sort of fun.
Something to consider, if you ask me.
What the sandbox fans call for goes entirely against the type of game BW has said they were making from the get go. It boils down to the simple concept of "You try to be the best at everything, and you end up being the best at nothing".
Uncle Owen works in a sandbox game. When you have a story type PVE experience, with added PVP, he doesnt serve a purpose. The most effective tool in MMOs is the proverbial "chasing the carrot" to better ones character. It takes the form of lvls/skills/gear.
To make Uncle Owen a viable playstyle, you have to force a dependency upon his wares. I cannot speak for all, but I do know gamers with my mindset like to adventure/quest for our gear....not farm money to keep re-buying the same items from Owen. Make no mistake, without decay, Owen is limited to one time sales. If the whole purpose of gaming is to keep rebuying the same items, then what is the point? Some may enjoy it....I have no use for it.
It defeats the whole appeal to gaming for gamers that share the mindset that I have on the topic. Owen fits into a gameworld that revolves around ROLEplay. If he wants to add a few things in a ROLLplay game, then fine. YOu add some trader skill sets ala EQ/WOW, and call it a day. You dont donate a class, and the time it entails to flesh it out, so you can force a dependancy into a game that is supposed to be about an adventure....IE ROLLplay.
PVP is basically the same story. If folks opt for it, that is fine. You dont force folks into FFA PVP. It only takes one bad apple to ruin others fun, and forced FFA PVP is prime to be exploited as a means to grief others.
Non-instanced housing, and player created content? Are you kidding me? The whole purpose of a sub is for a world to adventure in that has been hand crafted by a proffesional Dev team AFAIAC. Sure there can be some great amatuer stuff to be found in games that allow user generated stuff. How much of it though is total garbage? I like a game world to be filled up ala EQ, not a barren wasteland with a "for sale" sign on it ala SWG.
Would appreciate it if ya spared us the "Oh it isnt fair traders dont have games" routine. It has been used plenty of times on this web site. I will not pay a subscription to be someone else gaming content....be it Owens or gankers. TOR was never intended to be a sandbox, yet the whining is still going on ala the day it was announced there would be no dedicated crafters/ents/politicians/PB Crunchers.
Owen needs to support the games intended for him. Perhaps if he did, he would find more Developers willing to make games to tickle his fancy. Instead we are forced to deal with his charred arse corpse, getting his crusty pink panties in a bind, over a game that has long been known wasnt going to cater to his style.
These folks have cried for just under 5 yrs over the PRECioUs, and a few yrs now that TOR isnt a sandbox. No matter if you say it nicely or rudely, some folks dont get the hint that there are folks REALLY tired of hearing the drivel. There is a vet forum....which is where this crap belongs. Heck even the general brds here still carry a more sandbox bias.
That wont do though. Instead the section for TOR, a game heavy on themepark/PVE, is not only bombarded with sandbox talk. It is also filled up with talk about a sandbox system long gone.
This is the TOR forum. There are folks here wanting to discuss TOR. Cyphers has done a great job linking info. Pity there is always a "Would you rather play SWG" themed topic weekly. They are train wrecks, and human nature says you dont look away.
Going back to the theme of this topic....the more they complain, the more I am comforatable this game is going to turn out fine.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
What strikes me is the people trolling, because the very limited information that's out, do they pull their judgement based upon what they grab outta their asses?
And from what little info they've already released, it's way more than what WoW had at launch (no, it didn't even have raid(s), untill some months after release), Wow had lacking zones. So i don't see where all these WoW comparisons and trolls come from, because there's not enough INFO to compare/clone whine or troll/bash for that matter.
Also, WoW has over 10 years of developement behind it currently, so i find it Idiotic to say the least, to compare a game with 10+ years of developement behind to anything that is about to be released.
What strikes me is the people trolling, because the very limited information that's out, do they pull their judgement based upon what they grab outta their asses?
And from what little info they've already released, it's way more than what WoW had at launch (no, it didn't even have raid(s), untill some months after release), Wow had lacking zones. So i don't see where all these WoW comparisons and trolls come from, because there's not enough INFO to compare/clone whine or troll/bash for that matter.
Most of the talk is just people that heard something somebody else said without doing any kind of research on the game.
I'm getting a lil annoyed by all the hate this game is generating, and for what reason? Because it isn't swg2? It was never supposed to be. It was supposed to be KOTOR 3456789......that you can play on line with a huge online community.
Any negativity from this site or the TOR official forums is from the Themepark crowd, but thats normal and to be expected. What was not expected was how fast EA/Bioware comforted the Themepark crowd and told the Sandbox type of people to get lost, every release note seemed to be a concession that no only was it a WOW clone but they were going to bend over backwards to make guilds like Ensidia feel more important. I mean honestly theres no debate .. NO DEBATE at all on the official forums anymore, its DEAD, basically its a bunch of people waiting patiently to hear what new dungeons and Teired gear sets are coming out, its SAD.
Thats why there is Negativity towards TOR they sold out and sold out early to the WOW Paradigm, a playstyle many are just sick of. They also took a huge crap on the Sandbox playerbase, Star Wars fans, and SWG players all at the same time. .. and then after all of that they take Space battle and real space travel OUT of STAR WARS..... I mean lol seriously Star Wars without Stars... its just stupid.
Any negativity from this site or the TOR official forums is from the SWG Pre-NGE and sandbox crowd, but thats normal and to be expected. What was not expected was how fast EA/Bioware told the Sandbox type of people to get lost.
Thats why there is Negativity towards TOR, according to the sandbox crowd they sold out and sold out early to the WOW Paradigm, a playstyle many SWG Pre-NGE fans and other sandbox lovers are just sick of. They took a huge crap on the Sandbox playerbase and SWG Pre-NGE players all at the same time. .. and then after all of that they take Space battle and real space travel OUT of STAR WARS..... I mean lol seriously Star Wars without Stars... its just stupid.
There, cleaned up some of your post, and you're right. That's probably the reason for so much negativity and anti-BW/SWTOR sentiment from some people, as you say correctly BW's choices must have really riled up sandbox lovers and SWG Pre-NGE vets who had been looking for a Star Wars sandbox MMO. So it stands to reason that they're the ones that feel the most negative and discriminated by BW's decisions.
Regarding space battle and real space travel, let's be realistic: a lot of Star Wars games (note the 'Star' in Star Wars) were without stars, space battle or space travel, in fact KOTOR 1 & 2 didn't have any, and neither did SWG when it launched for a full year and more after its launch.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Any negativity from this site or the TOR official forums is from the Themepark crowd, but thats normal and to be expected. What was not expected was how fast EA/Bioware comforted the Themepark crowd and told the Sandbox type of people to get lost, every release note seemed to be a concession that no only was it a WOW clone but they were going to bend over backwards to make guilds like Ensidia feel more important. I mean honestly theres no debate .. NO DEBATE at all on the official forums anymore, its DEAD, basically its a bunch of people waiting patiently to hear what new dungeons and Teired gear sets are coming out, its SAD.
Thats why there is Negativity towards TOR they sold out and sold out early to the WOW Paradigm, a playstyle many are just sick of. They also took a huge crap on the Sandbox playerbase, Star Wars fans, and SWG players all at the same time. .. and then after all of that they take Space battle and real space travel OUT of STAR WARS..... I mean lol seriously Star Wars without Stars... its just stupid.
Sold out early?
Dude/Maam/what-ever-you-are
Are you serious? How long have you been around these boards?
From the second it was announced this was a story based game, and would include all adventure classes, was the second the sandbox crowd went and lost their marbles.
To sell out would mean they intended to make a sandbox in the first place. After what happened with SWG, do you think ANYONE in their rightr mind would of tried another.....or gone the themepark route? Well maybe I should say anyone without PRECioUS colored blinders on.
What was the purpose of contracting BW if LA had intended to make a sandbox? Wny would BW accept a job to do as game counter to every game they had made?
You are talking hogwash methinks.
Cause the facts run counter to your accusations. SWG failed. LA had BW start a new game. BW makes themepark games.
Pretty straightforward I say.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Any negativity from this site or the TOR official forums is from the Themepark crowd, but thats normal and to be expected. What was not expected was how fast EA/Bioware comforted the Themepark crowd and told the Sandbox type of people to get lost, every release note seemed to be a concession that no only was it a WOW clone but they were going to bend over backwards to make guilds like Ensidia feel more important. I mean honestly theres no debate .. NO DEBATE at all on the official forums anymore, its DEAD, basically its a bunch of people waiting patiently to hear what new dungeons and Teired gear sets are coming out, its SAD.
Thats why there is Negativity towards TOR they sold out and sold out early to the WOW Paradigm, a playstyle many are just sick of. They also took a huge crap on the Sandbox playerbase, Star Wars fans, and SWG players all at the same time. .. and then after all of that they take Space battle and real space travel OUT of STAR WARS..... I mean lol seriously Star Wars without Stars... its just stupid.
Ugh...I hate to be the 3rd guy to quote you, but seriously...SoE has nothing to do with this game (THANK GOD!!!). I understand missing pre-NGE SWG, but this game won't be SWG2.
And come on...if you played SWG you know as well as I do that very few people enjoyed space. I'm sure you'll claim 10 of your best buddies did, but the other 200 people on your friends list hated it. Bioware was wise to make this game a polar opposite of SWG tbh...SWG is a cancer to Star Wars...maybe this game will actually FEEL like a Star Wars game.
Any negativity from this site or the TOR official forums is from the Themepark crowd, but thats normal and to be expected. What was not expected was how fast EA/Bioware comforted the Themepark crowd and told the Sandbox type of people to get lost, every release note seemed to be a concession that no only was it a WOW clone but they were going to bend over backwards to make guilds like Ensidia feel more important. I mean honestly theres no debate .. NO DEBATE at all on the official forums anymore, its DEAD, basically its a bunch of people waiting patiently to hear what new dungeons and Teired gear sets are coming out, its SAD.
Thats why there is Negativity towards TOR they sold out and sold out early to the WOW Paradigm, a playstyle many are just sick of. They also took a huge crap on the Sandbox playerbase, Star Wars fans, and SWG players all at the same time. .. and then after all of that they take Space battle and real space travel OUT of STAR WARS..... I mean lol seriously Star Wars without Stars... its just stupid.
Sold out early?
Dude/Maam/what-ever-you-are
Are you serious? How long have you been around these boards?
From the second it was announced this was a story based game, and would include all adventure classes, was the second the sandbox crowd went and lost their marbles.
To sell out would mean they intended to make a sandbox in the first place. After what happened with SWG, do you think ANYONE in their rightr mind would of tried another.....or gone the themepark route? Well maybe I should say anyone without PRECioUS colored blinders on.
What was the purpose of contracting BW if LA had intended to make a sandbox? Wny would BW accept a job to do as game counter to every game they had made?
You are talking hogwash methinks.
Cause the facts run counter to your accusations. SWG failed. LA had BW start a new game. BW makes themepark games.
Pretty straightforward I say.
ya but star wars and themepark are contradictory - especially in an mmo.
george lucas and the EU writers went to great lengths to create this huge and rich never-ending universe where your mind is encouraged to dream, explore and feel the freedom of a galaxy but here instead they want to show it to you by the hand.
which is not the same as lord of the rings, for instance. in THAT scenario, you have a map, one "world", and the whole story is based on a quest of good vs evil. being a hobbit farmer in that game would be pretty silly.
star wars is much more than that, and has always been - both in size and timeline - at least to the fans. its intricate politics, jedi falling to the dark side; gangsters, entertainers, pilots, senators, soldiers, farmers, etc. all exist to give a meaning to the complexity and size of this universe. its not simply as good vs evil. its ideology vs ideology, and throw in "bystanders" who just want to survive and live their lives. Like a Dash Rendar, who is a freelancer, and thinks of no one but himself and his pockets. Or a Nick Rostu, a soldier, signed up by the Grand Army of the Republic but he was militia in his homeworld beforehand.
a themepark in star wars will put everyone on a set path. so either we'll have thousands of dash rendar's or none - depends on the story the devs decided to include.
in a spg, such as the jedi knight series, or kotor, you know you are playing to experience a segment of the life of a certain individual - be it kyle katarn in the former or Revan in the latter.
BUT in an mmo, you should really be out there to mold your own story, otherwise what's the point? as i said before just publish it as a SPG so i don't have to see thousands of other clones to *my name goes here*.
THAT is what the person means about "selling out."
I want to remind everyone that the point of my thread was to voice a theory or perception regarding hype and the impact it has one way or another, specifically with my perception of the GW2 forum versus this one and whether the generally negativity of this forum will be a good thing in the end for this game while the opposite might hold true for GW2. Of course I'm hoping both are good games. It was also a wish for some magical force to be able to track those who voice discontent and whether they will be the ones playing the game the most when it is released lol.
A lot of these posts did help me understand the strong feelings attached to SWG as well as those who hope it is nothing like that. Regardless, this thread wasn't meant to be another sandbox versus themepark discussion. My opinion on that topic remains exactly the same. You can have a great sandbox game and a great theme park game. You can have horrible games in both genres. A good game is simply a good game. I continue to be optimistic that this game will be good because nothing of any major substance has been released that has shown me otherwise. I never form a conclusion based on bits and pieces. I form conclusions when I can see the entire picture and we just aint there yet. I believe that the negativity around a game like this when so little has been released will help it rather then the opposite where the hype is so high that it is destined to fall to reality once the 3+ mark post release passes. The more talk, the better.
They made a game. A game. Being 42, I was there when SW hit in the 70s. Having parents that both worked for GM, I had every figure available....and the day the Falcon hit Sears stores I had that as well.
I understand luving the SW IP. I still will collect figures from time to time if I see a cool one at store. Got a Boba Fett and Vader other day with the retro card back for ESB 30th ann. I never liked the EU, but understand some folks do. Doesnt make me not a fan of SW because I didnt follow that stuff.
There are more SW fans than those that liked SWG. I dont know about others, but I hate that type of game.
I game to have fun. Sitting around RPing isnt fun in my book.
Lucas went with BW to make TOR to appeal to gamers like myself. YOu guys are not "owed" anything. Lucas wanted sales, and by going this route, he is going to get sales. You claim he "sold out"....I see them trying to attract an audience this time around. 300k subs SWG garnered was flat sad......even back then cause it had the SW IP. Lucas wants more of his fan base this time around.
You claim to be such a "fan", and yet folks like you are ruining it for the rest of us. We wanna talk about this game, and yet we are constantly trolled cause you guys didnt get what ya want. My 15 yr old is more mature than that.
When Koster made the sandbox, I stayed away. His game didnt match my style, and thus I played something else. I would of never dreamed of acting like a few of ya do on these TOR forums. I wanted SWG to be a game like EQ. It wasnt...life goes on.
You either need to support what is, or move on. This game is not going to change into an uncle owen adventure. All you are doing is stomping your feet, and holding your breath. If you demand change, then why do you carry on here? Why not over on the TOR brds? That is where you would get results. This complaining crap has gone on for FIVE yrs now. When is enough enough?
With no condescending attitude what-so-ever......you need to let it go. I know Wildcat keep claiming he would make Smed put out classic servers, and Shayde was claiming BW was taking over Pre-CU....but it isnt going to happen.
Find a game that supports your style, or heck enjoy this game for what it is.....not what is missing.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Any publicity for a game is good publicity except for false accusations, those do nothing for the game. The worse thing that can happen to a game (musician, moive or what have you) is to become unknown. Then noone hears about it. Noone checks it out, noone cares. Thus it dies. But i do wish some of the negativity publicity that just isn't true would stop (ie in the ranks of it will play like a single player game, these just weren't true and now everyone reliezes it) to spread around false information is just baseless and doesn't help or hurt the game.
We know a few things about this game:
It's an MMORPG.
Story is it's main driving force.
There will be classes (8 of them, 4 sides each, each class will break into 2 sub classes for a total of i think 16)
There will be light side/dark side choices.
We know the artwork is similar to how WoW worked (notice similar not exact)
We know theres space combat (in a tunnel like space)
we know it's a themepark game and not a sandbox (gonna have to take the game for what it is here)
So yeah good publicity really helps the game, bad publicity helps to keep it known. Baseless publicity just does nothing for the game.
This is of course in my humble opinion, except for the features of the game
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
While I agree on every point you made Troneas, Lucas is the one who "sold out" Star Wars when he introduced Ewoks. Lucas Arts just follows his lead.
Star Wars, to ME, is what you stated...an entire universe full of adventure and stories unfolding, a universe FULL of imagination. Star Wars "the brand" seems to be limited to marketing and making a quick buck.
A sandbox is best suited to what "we" see as Star Wars because (I assume) you, like me, probably grew up creating Star Wars adventures with our minds. Give me 4 Star Wars action figures (2 Stormtooopers), 2 GI Joe guys for fodder, a few vehicles and a round wicker foot stool to serve as my Death Star and I'll put together a battle you'll never forget. To me, Kashyyyk was an oak tree outside my door. Endor was my mothers garden. Hoth was November-March. Tattoine was the tan carpet in the dining room. To me, Star Wars is ALL imagination and creating my own adventure.
But sadly, that's not what would sell well TODAY. I grew up with Atari and a Commodore 64 where a beard on my Ultima guy was nothing more than 2 black sprites. My children, I love them, admire them and would do anything for them, but they couldn't create a decent Star Wars scenario to save their asses. They grew up reading it, watching it, and playing it...and that's the difference...they grew up playing others adventures...not their own.
I HOPE, WISH, EMPLORE, BEG Bioware to add in a sandbox element for people like me...but even if it doesn't have it, it won't ruin the game for me. Star Wars isn't what it was, geezus, Jar-Jar proves that...but Star Wars is still FUN to me and being able to play in someone else's creation WILL BE fun for me too...It won't be what I would have done, but I can (need to) separate the universe that I created in my mind as a kid from the one being developed long enough to enjoy ANY Star Wars game.
And that's really the bottom line...I LOVE Star Wars. Jar-Jar didn't ruin it, SoE didn't ruin it, George Lucas can't ruin it. I grew up playing it, watching it, dreaming it...that "passion" in me doesn't change. No game will ever be as imaginative as I was...but every Star Wars game can still be fun to me.
Any negativity from this site or the TOR official forums is from the Themepark crowd, but thats normal and to be expected. What was not expected was how fast EA/Bioware comforted the Themepark crowd and told the Sandbox type of people to get lost, every release note seemed to be a concession that no only was it a WOW clone but they were going to bend over backwards to make guilds like Ensidia feel more important. I mean honestly theres no debate .. NO DEBATE at all on the official forums anymore, its DEAD, basically its a bunch of people waiting patiently to hear what new dungeons and Teired gear sets are coming out, its SAD.
Thats why there is Negativity towards TOR they sold out and sold out early to the WOW Paradigm, a playstyle many are just sick of. They also took a huge crap on the Sandbox playerbase, Star Wars fans, and SWG players all at the same time. .. and then after all of that they take Space battle and real space travel OUT of STAR WARS..... I mean lol seriously Star Wars without Stars... its just stupid.
Ugh...I hate to be the 3rd guy to quote you, but seriously...SoE has nothing to do with this game (THANK GOD!!!). I understand missing pre-NGE SWG, but this game won't be SWG2.
And come on...if you played SWG you know as well as I do that very few people enjoyed space. I'm sure you'll claim 10 of your best buddies did, but the other 200 people on your friends list hated it. Bioware was wise to make this game a polar opposite of SWG tbh...SWG is a cancer to Star Wars...maybe this game will actually FEEL like a Star Wars game.
None of what any of you say matters, the Fact is they basically cloned WOW, you will have to farm your lightsaber off dead animals, no space travel, holy trinity combat, no world pvp, no crafting you name it, wow has it.
Yes because every game that is hated by this site are successful and have large players bases. Of course there are a few exceptions to that rule but generally if the game is popular people on this site hate it.
None of what any of you say matters, the Fact is they basically cloned WOW, you will have to farm your lightsaber off dead animals, no space travel, holy trinity combat, no world pvp, no crafting you name it, wow has it.
So, don't play it?
They also said they are working on a unique crafting system. They said there will be some kind of world pvp, probably mythic style since that is the dev team devoted to the pvp part of this game.
Yes because every game that is hated by this site are successful and have large players bases. Of course there are a few exceptions to that rule but generally if the game is popular people on this site hate it.
That's pretty much the trend as of lately. The big bad company is hated on and the indie small time dev team gets praise, but when the game finally comes out it tanks and tanks hard.
I see this trend going on in these forums for the past 5-6 years now. I don't take anything at face value here. The opposite is the truth.
in my opinion, this board is filled with negative posters who'd bash any game. I'd be surprised if there was a game that this site gives more positive comments than bad comments.
This reply is merely my Opinion. I am a pretty big fan of the SW universe. I am by no means a fanatic as I know some are. The only real reasons I will be passing on this title is due to the fact I don't think you can take the star wars universe with all its depth, character, style and sheer size and make cookie cutter classes.
To me to make any class in the SW universe use the same weapons, same skills, and basically be the same as every other person of the class takes away from the sheer scope of star wars. One of the things I always enjoyed about the star wars universe was the diversity. No 2 bounty hunters hunted the same or used the same equipment or skill sets. No 2 jedi had the exact same force skill set or were exactly the same in their abilities. So for me any SW game that isn't a skill based system with alot of sandbox features will always just feel like an empty shell of what the SW universe really is. To make an MMO with so many limitations in a universe whos scope is do incredibly huge to me seems like a waste of an incredible IP. That style of limiting class ability and choice in a SW title may very well work in Single player game, since you won't be running into Bounty hunter clone of your character 1001. But when every BH or Jedi all play the same and use the same weapons and skills to me for this IP is a breaker. For many titles like AoC or Lotro as an IP the really do not have this problem since in the stories warriors pretty much the same equipment, archers used pretty much the same equipment, rogues pretty much had the same skill sets. But with SW I just feel like making it a theme park cookie cutter MMO just fails short for the IP. That is just my opinion.
The 2nd thing that has turned me away from the title is the feeling of I get of how much of the game they leave out due to the STORY focus they are consumed by. I love a good story, but I do not love having restrictions put on a game for the sake of a story. No aliens because well aliens cant be romantic with humans has to be the lamest excuse to limit race selection I have ever heard. Do I really need a virtual kiss for my virtual avatar over a wider selection of races? For me the answer is umm NO. I can get a real kiss from my wife in real life I really see no point in avatar hook up in TOR. Will i feel more immersed in a game because My guy got laid in a story someone else is telling for me? Or by being able to pick a much wider variety or races and play the avatar I want? To me this game seems to make way to many choices for me. I have played MMO's since EQ1 on launch day and look forward to mmo genre with hopes of more choice not less. And TOR seems to want you to go on Their adventure and not yours with the limiting of both game and space combat being on rails. Just my 2 cp worth. Like I said this is my opinion and reasons I won't be trying TOR.
Comments
Well you have to understand people are disillusioned and grumpy , most MMO players are burned out .
1 they feel used and abused by the community or product they supported with there heart and soul .
2 Meeting new and interesting people is getting harder and harder , while old times you didn´t had to use voice chat .
Vents and Teamspeak are the norm these days and webcame is getting more and more in , so actually fooling somebody for long time is lot harder .
3 The negativity around this product has to do with SWG , sony decided to change the game and totally ignore community feedback , LAST MMO that community riot played a role .
(Nowadays Blizzard wow dont care anymore about community riots , and community plays less sense then subscribers.
Remember old MMO players want to think they make a impact in the game .
That there reasoning is understood or followed , new mmo players just yell there demands and wont budge one bit .
But old mmo players will quit and stop paying , new pfttt they cancel then when candy comes flock back to the product .)
4 Roleplay is a bit dead for the new generation , they dont understand roleplay .. for the next generation roleplay is just a means to a end , either dating cybering find a temp companion or just drama and jokes .
Everybody wants to be heared but nobody wants to listen !! .
So in a sense most people are negative about this product , cause they are negative about MMO itself .
Some people are negative cause they are afraid there product will lose important players .
You can´t raid with only 14 year old kids
if all goes well it goes well , but one wipe the blaim game starts .
But strangely visited bioware swtor forums today , usual garbage crap of idiots , but suprise suprise !!!
It was moderated
and was funning how many NWN players still lurking around there without posting .
So I for one see the game very postive , even a reunion with the NORTH AMERICAN side of bioware fans , going to be a laughter
.
I'm just answering the title of the topic, so please excuse my ignorance if I missed something.
There is negativity on just about every MMO gaming website about every MMO. Some communitites are a bit less forgiving than others, and this happens to be one of them. If it is a good game, people will play it. It won't matter what anyone here thinks. Once it's released, you can make your own judgements about the game with hands-on experience.
This was the premise of my post with the reverse being true of over hyped games, but some posts here in this thread have differing opinions based on their perception of the history of certain games, so I guess only time will tell.
There Is Always Hope!
an interesting response. Maybe a new feature in games will should be age filters based on individual accounts. Like I want to play only with those 21+, but that will never happen lol. Anyway, thats a different thread I can start haha
There Is Always Hope!
The title works lol. Anyway, you are right, only time will tell, but this game seems to have a lot more negatively as compared to for instance the GW2 forum, so I'll be curious 4+ months into each game whether there is any correlation to the hype. Regardless, I totally agree that if the game is good, it generally does well in that 4+ month period. Some games with great marketing and hype do well months 1-3 then fade much quicker then they would like.
There Is Always Hope!
I think most players are a bit more forgiving with GW considering it is a F2P. That might not be the only reason, but it's not like you're losing money over a poorly designed game. Over 4 million players play GW1, and from what I've read they are improving the game across the board. So I can't see where there would be many complaints. Just my two cents.
What the sandbox fans call for goes entirely against the type of game BW has said they were making from the get go. It boils down to the simple concept of "You try to be the best at everything, and you end up being the best at nothing".
Uncle Owen works in a sandbox game. When you have a story type PVE experience, with added PVP, he doesnt serve a purpose. The most effective tool in MMOs is the proverbial "chasing the carrot" to better ones character. It takes the form of lvls/skills/gear.
To make Uncle Owen a viable playstyle, you have to force a dependency upon his wares. I cannot speak for all, but I do know gamers with my mindset like to adventure/quest for our gear....not farm money to keep re-buying the same items from Owen. Make no mistake, without decay, Owen is limited to one time sales. If the whole purpose of gaming is to keep rebuying the same items, then what is the point? Some may enjoy it....I have no use for it.
It defeats the whole appeal to gaming for gamers that share the mindset that I have on the topic. Owen fits into a gameworld that revolves around ROLEplay. If he wants to add a few things in a ROLLplay game, then fine. YOu add some trader skill sets ala EQ/WOW, and call it a day. You dont donate a class, and the time it entails to flesh it out, so you can force a dependancy into a game that is supposed to be about an adventure....IE ROLLplay.
PVP is basically the same story. If folks opt for it, that is fine. You dont force folks into FFA PVP. It only takes one bad apple to ruin others fun, and forced FFA PVP is prime to be exploited as a means to grief others.
Non-instanced housing, and player created content? Are you kidding me? The whole purpose of a sub is for a world to adventure in that has been hand crafted by a proffesional Dev team AFAIAC. Sure there can be some great amatuer stuff to be found in games that allow user generated stuff. How much of it though is total garbage? I like a game world to be filled up ala EQ, not a barren wasteland with a "for sale" sign on it ala SWG.
Would appreciate it if ya spared us the "Oh it isnt fair traders dont have games" routine. It has been used plenty of times on this web site. I will not pay a subscription to be someone else gaming content....be it Owens or gankers. TOR was never intended to be a sandbox, yet the whining is still going on ala the day it was announced there would be no dedicated crafters/ents/politicians/PB Crunchers.
Owen needs to support the games intended for him. Perhaps if he did, he would find more Developers willing to make games to tickle his fancy. Instead we are forced to deal with his charred arse corpse, getting his crusty pink panties in a bind, over a game that has long been known wasnt going to cater to his style.
These folks have cried for just under 5 yrs over the PRECioUs, and a few yrs now that TOR isnt a sandbox. No matter if you say it nicely or rudely, some folks dont get the hint that there are folks REALLY tired of hearing the drivel. There is a vet forum....which is where this crap belongs. Heck even the general brds here still carry a more sandbox bias.
That wont do though. Instead the section for TOR, a game heavy on themepark/PVE, is not only bombarded with sandbox talk. It is also filled up with talk about a sandbox system long gone.
This is the TOR forum. There are folks here wanting to discuss TOR. Cyphers has done a great job linking info. Pity there is always a "Would you rather play SWG" themed topic weekly. They are train wrecks, and human nature says you dont look away.
Going back to the theme of this topic....the more they complain, the more I am comforatable this game is going to turn out fine.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
What strikes me is the people trolling, because the very limited information that's out, do they pull their judgement based upon what they grab outta their asses?
And from what little info they've already released, it's way more than what WoW had at launch (no, it didn't even have raid(s), untill some months after release), Wow had lacking zones. So i don't see where all these WoW comparisons and trolls come from, because there's not enough INFO to compare/clone whine or troll/bash for that matter.
Also, WoW has over 10 years of developement behind it currently, so i find it Idiotic to say the least, to compare a game with 10+ years of developement behind to anything that is about to be released.
Most of the talk is just people that heard something somebody else said without doing any kind of research on the game.
I'm getting a lil annoyed by all the hate this game is generating, and for what reason? Because it isn't swg2? It was never supposed to be. It was supposed to be KOTOR 3456789......that you can play on line with a huge online community.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Any negativity from this site or the TOR official forums is from the Themepark crowd, but thats normal and to be expected. What was not expected was how fast EA/Bioware comforted the Themepark crowd and told the Sandbox type of people to get lost, every release note seemed to be a concession that no only was it a WOW clone but they were going to bend over backwards to make guilds like Ensidia feel more important. I mean honestly theres no debate .. NO DEBATE at all on the official forums anymore, its DEAD, basically its a bunch of people waiting patiently to hear what new dungeons and Teired gear sets are coming out, its SAD.
Thats why there is Negativity towards TOR they sold out and sold out early to the WOW Paradigm, a playstyle many are just sick of. They also took a huge crap on the Sandbox playerbase, Star Wars fans, and SWG players all at the same time. .. and then after all of that they take Space battle and real space travel OUT of STAR WARS..... I mean lol seriously Star Wars without Stars... its just stupid.
There, cleaned up some of your post, and you're right. That's probably the reason for so much negativity and anti-BW/SWTOR sentiment from some people, as you say correctly BW's choices must have really riled up sandbox lovers and SWG Pre-NGE vets who had been looking for a Star Wars sandbox MMO. So it stands to reason that they're the ones that feel the most negative and discriminated by BW's decisions.
Regarding space battle and real space travel, let's be realistic: a lot of Star Wars games (note the 'Star' in Star Wars) were without stars, space battle or space travel, in fact KOTOR 1 & 2 didn't have any, and neither did SWG when it launched for a full year and more after its launch.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Sold out early?
Dude/Maam/what-ever-you-are
Are you serious? How long have you been around these boards?
From the second it was announced this was a story based game, and would include all adventure classes, was the second the sandbox crowd went and lost their marbles.
To sell out would mean they intended to make a sandbox in the first place. After what happened with SWG, do you think ANYONE in their rightr mind would of tried another.....or gone the themepark route? Well maybe I should say anyone without PRECioUS colored blinders on.
What was the purpose of contracting BW if LA had intended to make a sandbox? Wny would BW accept a job to do as game counter to every game they had made?
You are talking hogwash methinks.
Cause the facts run counter to your accusations. SWG failed. LA had BW start a new game. BW makes themepark games.
Pretty straightforward I say.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Ugh...I hate to be the 3rd guy to quote you, but seriously...SoE has nothing to do with this game (THANK GOD!!!). I understand missing pre-NGE SWG, but this game won't be SWG2.
And come on...if you played SWG you know as well as I do that very few people enjoyed space. I'm sure you'll claim 10 of your best buddies did, but the other 200 people on your friends list hated it. Bioware was wise to make this game a polar opposite of SWG tbh...SWG is a cancer to Star Wars...maybe this game will actually FEEL like a Star Wars game.
ya but star wars and themepark are contradictory - especially in an mmo.
george lucas and the EU writers went to great lengths to create this huge and rich never-ending universe where your mind is encouraged to dream, explore and feel the freedom of a galaxy but here instead they want to show it to you by the hand.
which is not the same as lord of the rings, for instance. in THAT scenario, you have a map, one "world", and the whole story is based on a quest of good vs evil. being a hobbit farmer in that game would be pretty silly.
star wars is much more than that, and has always been - both in size and timeline - at least to the fans. its intricate politics, jedi falling to the dark side; gangsters, entertainers, pilots, senators, soldiers, farmers, etc. all exist to give a meaning to the complexity and size of this universe. its not simply as good vs evil. its ideology vs ideology, and throw in "bystanders" who just want to survive and live their lives. Like a Dash Rendar, who is a freelancer, and thinks of no one but himself and his pockets. Or a Nick Rostu, a soldier, signed up by the Grand Army of the Republic but he was militia in his homeworld beforehand.
a themepark in star wars will put everyone on a set path. so either we'll have thousands of dash rendar's or none - depends on the story the devs decided to include.
in a spg, such as the jedi knight series, or kotor, you know you are playing to experience a segment of the life of a certain individual - be it kyle katarn in the former or Revan in the latter.
BUT in an mmo, you should really be out there to mold your own story, otherwise what's the point? as i said before just publish it as a SPG so i don't have to see thousands of other clones to *my name goes here*.
THAT is what the person means about "selling out."
savvy?
I want to remind everyone that the point of my thread was to voice a theory or perception regarding hype and the impact it has one way or another, specifically with my perception of the GW2 forum versus this one and whether the generally negativity of this forum will be a good thing in the end for this game while the opposite might hold true for GW2. Of course I'm hoping both are good games. It was also a wish for some magical force to be able to track those who voice discontent and whether they will be the ones playing the game the most when it is released lol.
A lot of these posts did help me understand the strong feelings attached to SWG as well as those who hope it is nothing like that. Regardless, this thread wasn't meant to be another sandbox versus themepark discussion. My opinion on that topic remains exactly the same. You can have a great sandbox game and a great theme park game. You can have horrible games in both genres. A good game is simply a good game. I continue to be optimistic that this game will be good because nothing of any major substance has been released that has shown me otherwise. I never form a conclusion based on bits and pieces. I form conclusions when I can see the entire picture and we just aint there yet. I believe that the negativity around a game like this when so little has been released will help it rather then the opposite where the hype is so high that it is destined to fall to reality once the 3+ mark post release passes. The more talk, the better.
There Is Always Hope!
Troneas
Take a breath man.
They made a game. A game. Being 42, I was there when SW hit in the 70s. Having parents that both worked for GM, I had every figure available....and the day the Falcon hit Sears stores I had that as well.
I understand luving the SW IP. I still will collect figures from time to time if I see a cool one at store. Got a Boba Fett and Vader other day with the retro card back for ESB 30th ann. I never liked the EU, but understand some folks do. Doesnt make me not a fan of SW because I didnt follow that stuff.
There are more SW fans than those that liked SWG. I dont know about others, but I hate that type of game.
I game to have fun. Sitting around RPing isnt fun in my book.
Lucas went with BW to make TOR to appeal to gamers like myself. YOu guys are not "owed" anything. Lucas wanted sales, and by going this route, he is going to get sales. You claim he "sold out"....I see them trying to attract an audience this time around. 300k subs SWG garnered was flat sad......even back then cause it had the SW IP. Lucas wants more of his fan base this time around.
You claim to be such a "fan", and yet folks like you are ruining it for the rest of us. We wanna talk about this game, and yet we are constantly trolled cause you guys didnt get what ya want. My 15 yr old is more mature than that.
When Koster made the sandbox, I stayed away. His game didnt match my style, and thus I played something else. I would of never dreamed of acting like a few of ya do on these TOR forums. I wanted SWG to be a game like EQ. It wasnt...life goes on.
You either need to support what is, or move on. This game is not going to change into an uncle owen adventure. All you are doing is stomping your feet, and holding your breath. If you demand change, then why do you carry on here? Why not over on the TOR brds? That is where you would get results. This complaining crap has gone on for FIVE yrs now. When is enough enough?
With no condescending attitude what-so-ever......you need to let it go. I know Wildcat keep claiming he would make Smed put out classic servers, and Shayde was claiming BW was taking over Pre-CU....but it isnt going to happen.
Find a game that supports your style, or heck enjoy this game for what it is.....not what is missing.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Any publicity for a game is good publicity except for false accusations, those do nothing for the game. The worse thing that can happen to a game (musician, moive or what have you) is to become unknown. Then noone hears about it. Noone checks it out, noone cares. Thus it dies. But i do wish some of the negativity publicity that just isn't true would stop (ie in the ranks of it will play like a single player game, these just weren't true and now everyone reliezes it) to spread around false information is just baseless and doesn't help or hurt the game.
We know a few things about this game:
It's an MMORPG.
Story is it's main driving force.
There will be classes (8 of them, 4 sides each, each class will break into 2 sub classes for a total of i think 16)
There will be light side/dark side choices.
We know the artwork is similar to how WoW worked (notice similar not exact)
We know theres space combat (in a tunnel like space)
we know it's a themepark game and not a sandbox (gonna have to take the game for what it is here)
So yeah good publicity really helps the game, bad publicity helps to keep it known. Baseless publicity just does nothing for the game.
This is of course in my humble opinion, except for the features of the game
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
While I agree on every point you made Troneas, Lucas is the one who "sold out" Star Wars when he introduced Ewoks. Lucas Arts just follows his lead.
Star Wars, to ME, is what you stated...an entire universe full of adventure and stories unfolding, a universe FULL of imagination. Star Wars "the brand" seems to be limited to marketing and making a quick buck.
A sandbox is best suited to what "we" see as Star Wars because (I assume) you, like me, probably grew up creating Star Wars adventures with our minds. Give me 4 Star Wars action figures (2 Stormtooopers), 2 GI Joe guys for fodder, a few vehicles and a round wicker foot stool to serve as my Death Star and I'll put together a battle you'll never forget. To me, Kashyyyk was an oak tree outside my door. Endor was my mothers garden. Hoth was November-March. Tattoine was the tan carpet in the dining room. To me, Star Wars is ALL imagination and creating my own adventure.
But sadly, that's not what would sell well TODAY. I grew up with Atari and a Commodore 64 where a beard on my Ultima guy was nothing more than 2 black sprites. My children, I love them, admire them and would do anything for them, but they couldn't create a decent Star Wars scenario to save their asses. They grew up reading it, watching it, and playing it...and that's the difference...they grew up playing others adventures...not their own.
I HOPE, WISH, EMPLORE, BEG Bioware to add in a sandbox element for people like me...but even if it doesn't have it, it won't ruin the game for me. Star Wars isn't what it was, geezus, Jar-Jar proves that...but Star Wars is still FUN to me and being able to play in someone else's creation WILL BE fun for me too...It won't be what I would have done, but I can (need to) separate the universe that I created in my mind as a kid from the one being developed long enough to enjoy ANY Star Wars game.
And that's really the bottom line...I LOVE Star Wars. Jar-Jar didn't ruin it, SoE didn't ruin it, George Lucas can't ruin it. I grew up playing it, watching it, dreaming it...that "passion" in me doesn't change. No game will ever be as imaginative as I was...but every Star Wars game can still be fun to me.
None of what any of you say matters, the Fact is they basically cloned WOW, you will have to farm your lightsaber off dead animals, no space travel, holy trinity combat, no world pvp, no crafting you name it, wow has it.
Yes because every game that is hated by this site are successful and have large players bases. Of course there are a few exceptions to that rule but generally if the game is popular people on this site hate it.
So, don't play it?
They also said they are working on a unique crafting system. They said there will be some kind of world pvp, probably mythic style since that is the dev team devoted to the pvp part of this game.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
That's pretty much the trend as of lately. The big bad company is hated on and the indie small time dev team gets praise, but when the game finally comes out it tanks and tanks hard.
I see this trend going on in these forums for the past 5-6 years now. I don't take anything at face value here. The opposite is the truth.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
in my opinion, this board is filled with negative posters who'd bash any game. I'd be surprised if there was a game that this site gives more positive comments than bad comments.
This game is Wow with lightsabers, nothing can change that fact. This game is a moneygraber wowstile+famous IP
This reply is merely my Opinion. I am a pretty big fan of the SW universe. I am by no means a fanatic as I know some are. The only real reasons I will be passing on this title is due to the fact I don't think you can take the star wars universe with all its depth, character, style and sheer size and make cookie cutter classes.
To me to make any class in the SW universe use the same weapons, same skills, and basically be the same as every other person of the class takes away from the sheer scope of star wars. One of the things I always enjoyed about the star wars universe was the diversity. No 2 bounty hunters hunted the same or used the same equipment or skill sets. No 2 jedi had the exact same force skill set or were exactly the same in their abilities. So for me any SW game that isn't a skill based system with alot of sandbox features will always just feel like an empty shell of what the SW universe really is. To make an MMO with so many limitations in a universe whos scope is do incredibly huge to me seems like a waste of an incredible IP. That style of limiting class ability and choice in a SW title may very well work in Single player game, since you won't be running into Bounty hunter clone of your character 1001. But when every BH or Jedi all play the same and use the same weapons and skills to me for this IP is a breaker. For many titles like AoC or Lotro as an IP the really do not have this problem since in the stories warriors pretty much the same equipment, archers used pretty much the same equipment, rogues pretty much had the same skill sets. But with SW I just feel like making it a theme park cookie cutter MMO just fails short for the IP. That is just my opinion.
The 2nd thing that has turned me away from the title is the feeling of I get of how much of the game they leave out due to the STORY focus they are consumed by. I love a good story, but I do not love having restrictions put on a game for the sake of a story. No aliens because well aliens cant be romantic with humans has to be the lamest excuse to limit race selection I have ever heard. Do I really need a virtual kiss for my virtual avatar over a wider selection of races? For me the answer is umm NO. I can get a real kiss from my wife in real life I really see no point in avatar hook up in TOR. Will i feel more immersed in a game because My guy got laid in a story someone else is telling for me? Or by being able to pick a much wider variety or races and play the avatar I want? To me this game seems to make way to many choices for me. I have played MMO's since EQ1 on launch day and look forward to mmo genre with hopes of more choice not less. And TOR seems to want you to go on Their adventure and not yours with the limiting of both game and space combat being on rails. Just my 2 cp worth. Like I said this is my opinion and reasons I won't be trying TOR.