so many replying to this seem to be unawarem that their original plan were to let ppl spec into any archclass on the same char - not letting you pick any 3 subclass from any archclass at once, and by this let you level any class at any time without making alts....wish they had sticked to this, not that its a gamebreaker, but grown into hatein alts.
I think people should play games like Champions Online to see just why that completely open-ended class system is only good in theory. It's nearly impossible to balance gameplay like that. All it leads to is a ton of forum flaming when people find that right combination of imbalanced overpoweredness. Then you're either prey, or you suck it up and pick the same build as everyone else just to have a fighting chance. There's a reason why class systems impose restrictions.
I'm sure there's a way to be open-ended without these problems, but it doesn't seem like anyone's really perfected that balance, yet.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
... but it doesn't seem like anyone's really perfected that balance, yet.
Balance is an illusion, right? It really is. Trion is not going to bend to the false balancing act, which I'm comforted to know, or at least expect. We'll see,
I think people should play games like Champions Online to see just why that completely open-ended class system is only good in theory. It's nearly impossible to balance gameplay like that. All it leads to is a ton of forum flaming when people find that right combination of imbalanced overpoweredness. Then you're either prey, or you suck it up and pick the same build as everyone else just to have a fighting chance. There's a reason why class systems impose restrictions.
I'm sure there's a way to be open-ended without these problems, but it doesn't seem like anyone's really perfected that balance, yet.
If your'e after some old school flavour then the worst thing possible is to blend all the classes together. EQ started going down the pan when all classes began to merge with everyone being able to carry out a few watered down functions of each others class.
Why bother even having a class system if you just want it all? A good class system works well, it is part of the mechanics of the game.
My own belief (just mine... chill out) is that each class should have a unique ability that no other has.
Old school, if you needed your corpse back from under the feet of that nasty boss mob.... pay a necro.
Need to get there quick... befriend a druid ect,
You either want to play an online MMO and make some good friends and have fun with some good old character interaction, or just hole up in a darkened room on your own- your uber; I can do everything character dont need no one else... Yawn.
Truth be told you lost interest when you couldn't have it all... no one cares.
I discovered you can only "multi class" into the same archetype. Pass for me.
Would have been amazing if they let you choose from any 3 classes though, oh well maybe next time.
LOL what a joke. That's the best system possible without giving players the WTFLETMESOLOEVERYTHING class combinations of FFXIV. If classes in an MMO have no defined roles there is no reason to play. Find something legitimate to whine about.
Obviously never played FFXI?It takes a good developer to pull any design off,that is what really matters.Personally i am wit hthe OP,i prefer freedom of choice,it is up to the dev to make it work on an even keel.
Seriously,this is the biggest reason PVP sucks in a MMORPG ,PVE allows people to utilize their build/class setup to help the group of players,afterall it should be about grouping PVE.FFXI made it simple,they made it so your secondary class in the multiclass setup was much less powerful than your main class,however if the game has a large arsenal of abilities and spells ,it can really be not only a fun class design but also offers MANY ways/roles for the player to play the game.
To lock players into little choice,it tells me the developer does not have the ability to properly design a game let alone a multi class system.ROM tried the multi class system as well and they struggled badly trying to make it work,this is what separates the top minds from the wannabes.I at least give ROM credit for trying however minute their efforts were,it seemed more like a good idea thrown together quickly.Imo a dev/producer/manager should spend several weeks/mnths with his whole team designing a multi class system,on paper alone,before anything concrete is coded into game.
Rift has tried to keep their design tidy[easy] by having the planes idea,but i would prefer they get a little more aggressive and expand their thoughts a little more,including the multi class design.This is what made a game like FFXI so far above the rest.Their combat system utilized,elements,weapon types,class stats,delay times,TP,weapon skills,combos with other players[Renkai chart],MAgic Bursts, ,accuracy,food ect ect,it made for a VERY robust system.Add a full array of class choice and it was just amazing,especially considering how many class FFXI had and how many unique abilities,ideas each class had,it really made playing your class FUN,and that is what any game should be about.
Dude every mmorpg has 1-2 things thats good at it. Wow has 8-9 things better than the others thats cause its n1 in sales. DDo has best character advance system +freedom in multiclass ,some games offer weapon's type of dmg crushing,piercing slashing etc,soeothers weapon's range stats,some others better grafix. FF has also 1-2 good things but overall it sucks,thats why it failed as mmorpg .
Concerning Rift i can say since w espeak of classes design and to OP: Obviously u don't know what Soul system does in RIFT. There are hundrends of different combinations of various classes of souls u can pick making your class feeeling and playing differently than other fellows of same class. Since they decided to implement that soul system it would be impossible to make dual-class system happen .The reasons are obvious concerning why.
I'm too lazy to find the article, but I remember reading about a Dev giving a demonstration of a DPS character he had made: The character was mostly rogue but mixed with a little caster. In the demonstration he showed how he could "blink" (caster) in use a series of "backstab" (rogue) type abilities then "bink" out and cast a few fireballs (caster) at the enemy.
I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like the same old boring class to me. It's awesome that the player can come up with combinations like that. I'm looking forward to the day when I'll be examining all of the options and come up with some cool combination like the blink-striking rogue. I feel like we'd almost lose uniqueness if we were allowed to mix archetypes because so many people would just mix tank/healer/dps.
...a demonstration of a DPS character: The character was mostly rogue but mixed with a little caster. In the demonstration he showed how he could "blink" (caster) in use a series of "backstab" (rogue) type abilities then "bink" out and cast a few fireballs (caster) at the enemy.
Try doing that on Tera or gw2, I love the way the soul system sounds I just hope it is as fleshed out as they say it will be.
I'm too lazy to find the article, but I remember reading about a Dev giving a demonstration of a DPS character he had made: The character was mostly rogue but mixed with a little caster. In the demonstration he showed how he could "blink" (caster) in use a series of "backstab" (rogue) type abilities then "bink" out and cast a few fireballs (caster) at the enemy.
I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like the same old boring class to me. It's awesome that the player can come up with combinations like that. I'm looking forward to the day when I'll be examining all of the options and come up with some cool combination like the blink-striking rogue. I feel like we'd almost lose uniqueness if we were allowed to mix archetypes because so many people would just mix tank/healer/dps.
you cant mix the archetypes m8, there may be some "mage like" abilities for the rogue, but its a rogue ability in RIFT then - you can mix the 8 classes in your archtype, which is a main reason why I d even want to try the game
I discovered you can only "multi class" into the same archetype. Pass for me.
Would have been amazing if they let you choose from any 3 classes though, oh well maybe next time.
Yes, lets just remove all consequence for choices in MMORPG's. We might as well remove the RPG part of their title and just call them MMOG's. While you are at it, we should all start with max level characters so we don't have to attain it through our own effort. Well hell, while you are at it, lets just take the level system out of it and we'll all be even from the start.
Since we'll all be even level, lets get rid of all different types of gear and give everyone a single set so we can all be even. Then we can give all characters the ability to instantly change the class type so we don't have to search for 20 minutes for a specific class type so we can run groups.
Hell with that, lets just do away with groups because we should be able to run instances by ourselves.
It's idiot posters such as the OP that strip away the best part of MMORPG's. The fact that your choice has consequences and may affect your gameplay at a later date. There is nothing worth having that didn't take effort to attain and nothing gained that can't be lost that is worth attaining. It's so sad what gamer mentalities have become and those types have no idea how rewarding gaming can actually be.
I discovered you can only "multi class" into the same archetype. Pass for me.
Would have been amazing if they let you choose from any 3 classes though, oh well maybe next time.
Yes, lets just remove all consequence for choices in MMORPG's. We might as well remove the RPG part of their title and just call them MMOG's. While you are at it, we should all start with max level characters so we don't have to attain it through our own effort. Well hell, while you are at it, lets just take the level system out of it and we'll all be even from the start.
Since we'll all be even level, lets get rid of all different types of gear and give everyone a single set so we can all be even. Then we can give all characters the ability to instantly change the class type so we don't have to search for 20 minutes for a specific class type so we can run groups.
Hell with that, lets just do away with groups because we should be able to run instances by ourselves.
It's idiot posters such as the OP that strip away the best part of MMORPG's. The fact that your choice has consequences and may affect your gameplay at a later date. There is nothing worth having that didn't take effort to attain and nothing gained that can't be lost that is worth attaining. It's so sad what gamer mentalities have become and those types have no idea how rewarding gaming can actually be.
Nice strawman you have there.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
This reminds me so much of the old Aion promises. Originally you were allowed to use any stigmas from any class to add variety, eventually they realized it would be too hard to balance so they said fuck it class only stigmas. Eh, fuck faction games.
I discovered you can only "multi class" into the same archetype. Pass for me.
Would have been amazing if they let you choose from any 3 classes though, oh well maybe next time.
Yes, lets just remove all consequence for choices in MMORPG's. We might as well remove the RPG part of their title and just call them MMOG's. While you are at it, we should all start with max level characters so we don't have to attain it through our own effort. Well hell, while you are at it, lets just take the level system out of it and we'll all be even from the start.
Since we'll all be even level, lets get rid of all different types of gear and give everyone a single set so we can all be even. Then we can give all characters the ability to instantly change the class type so we don't have to search for 20 minutes for a specific class type so we can run groups.
Hell with that, lets just do away with groups because we should be able to run instances by ourselves.
It's idiot posters such as the OP that strip away the best part of MMORPG's. The fact that your choice has consequences and may affect your gameplay at a later date. There is nothing worth having that didn't take effort to attain and nothing gained that can't be lost that is worth attaining. It's so sad what gamer mentalities have become and those types have no idea how rewarding gaming can actually be.
Hey geek, calm this rage a bit eh? Have you ever even played D&D, final fnatasy? You can take abilties from other archetypes, and AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS GAME (Rift) that is what they stated you could do, and then they narrowed it down.
You seem quite lost actually. This has nothing to do with all of us being EQUAL. It has to do with the ability to pull from a ton of classes to make your own. Hence being very, very different. Please read before you go getting your panties in a twist next time you dumb prick
When a man lies... he murders some part of the World.
Clearly by sticking to archetypes they ARE sticking with the old school. D&D pen and paper is the real old school, and they were all about the classic archetypes and the need for a party to round out an adventurey
Yes d&d had classic archetypes, but you could also multi class and make your own class suited to your playstyle. Something this game could have done successfully.
Now however you will have the same boring builds and continue the trend of being the same as every other person, at least the hardcore who want to be truly effective, which in the end forces everyone to spec the same way regardless.
This type of system is beyond boring to me.
This cracks me up your whining and you haven't a clue what your talking about... okay so the same old boring stuff you say, this game has 4 archtypes, withing each there are eight souls. Now out of those eight souls you can mix and match up to three of them.. Now my math may be off but thats something like 24 possible combinations per archtype. Now you name me one game that has even 24 classes in the entire game. Now you take there are 4 archtypes and do the math the possible class combos are beyond what any game out to date has for us to choose from and yet you are still whining and crying because there arent more?? I think its not the game thats the problem, its you, your the problem. Get off your high horse bud and understand they are about to offer you more in class customization than any game to date and your trying to tell us its the same old cookie cutter style game and everyone will be the same. What rock did you just crawl out from under? Really man you need to open your eyes and maybe read a bit more about how this game works.
They are taking it out of the pages of D&D and narrowing it down. DDO has more choices actually, so does final fantasy. Don't go spouting off unless you have a clue.
And even in these games, people will only spec into what have been determined as the most effective builds in the end, to be considered for groups. So yeah, same old same old. Please do some digging before commenting on this post
It has nothing to do whith a high horse, it has to do with what the DEVS stated themselves at the start of this game, as to where you could pull from any of the archetypes, which would have been a more interesting system in my opinion.
They did solve this to a certain degree by giving, say, a rogue some mage like abilities and tank like abilities in some of their classes within the archetype. So this solves a portion of it.
Still, this game doesnt offer more classes than DDO and FF. Don't go ranting off because I stated they could have done things differently, and the way they ORIGINALLY intended to.
Edit* Also as a side note EQ2 has more talent trees than this game, hell even AoC has just as many, if not more. Will the customization be good? I'm pretty sure that it will. But in the end you will see the same FORCED specs.
When a man lies... he murders some part of the World.
They are taking it out of the pages of D&D and narrowing it down. DDO has more choices actually, so does final fantasy. Don't go spouting off unless you have a clue.
And even in these games, people will only spec into what have been determined as the most effective builds in the end, to be considered for groups. So yeah, same old same old. Please do some digging before commenting on this post
It has nothing to do whith a high horse, it has to do with what the DEVS stated themselves at the start of this game, as to where you could pull from any of the archetypes, which would have been a more interesting system in my opinion.
They did solve this to a certain degree by giving, say, a rogue some mage like abilities and tank like abilities in some of their classes within the archetype. So this solves a portion of it.
Still, this game doesnt offer more classes than DDO and FF. Don't go ranting off because I stated they could have done things differently, and the way they ORIGINALLY intended to.
Edit* Also as a side note EQ2 has more talent trees than this game, hell even AoC has just as many, if not more. Will the customization be good? I'm pretty sure that it will. But in the end you will see the same FORCED specs.
I dunno but i want to see the math, i played both ddo and FFXI and FFXIV and i can say there are not even close to the same amount of possible class combinations. you have some 90+ possible combines between the 4 archtypes in Rifts you dont even hit half that with FF or ddo hell you can add them both together and still not come close.
I'll give you that for talents, but what we must consider are what do the combos give in respect to abilites and other such bonuses. when you combine your three souls and build your talents respectively the changes that take place will set you far apart from anyone else unless they do the exact same thing. And sure in every game out there the theory crafters will come up with the best possible dps mix or tank mix and so forth but if you plan on stickin to whats absolutely the best at a single job say dps then I would say you maybe cuttin yer own throat. Because that other guy that has a little less dps but comes with survivability or even some CC or buffs will beat you out in the long run.
I am sorry this game is letting you down but really I honestly believe they are giving us far more choice in character customization than anything to date. And I will atleast give them the benefit of the doubt and give it a shot. I got my beta key and will try it out, and before i slam this game for anything ima try it for myself instead of trying to piece together tid bits of info here and there and come to a conclusion without working it myself in actual play time.
I believe you have some strong points in that they led us to believe very early on that we could chose anything from anything but then that would defeat the entire purpose of the archtypes all together so maybe they had to retract what they said because of this point. Reguardless bro I truly believe they deserve some credit with what they are trying to bring to the table and maybe You and I should just shut up and play then come back to bash later if it sux then. But untill we actually get to see it first hand all this is still just speculation.
New to MMORPG.com but definitely not to the fickle nature of gamers. I guess the following is my problem with the past 7 pages.... I warn you now ... giant wall of text, but I think it's very well thought out and put together well ... Hopefully you read it
NEWS FLASH!
Nobody is going to get everything they want out of an MMO. When you create a product that attracts the "masses", it's inconcievable to think every single person will be pleased. I will say that based on the preliminary research I've done, RIFT is doing it's very best to please as many people as possible.
What more can you ask from a company that is trying to create a product that is fun, fulfilling, entertaining, and SUSTAINABLE. They have to design the game with some limitations because if they don't, everyone runs around with a super-class and the game loses interest faster than an episode of "American Dad".
From the interviews, podcasts, and videos that I've watched, this game is going to give you plenty of customization to go along with sustainability. Here is the way I like to think of it, hear me out.
You pick a class (Warrior, Rogue, Cleric, Mage) base from the beginning. From there you have access to 8 sub-genres inside of each. You are able to pick 3 to mix and match. There are both positives and negatives to doing this. You can be a jack-of-all-trades good at everything, great at nothing type who can survive in solo combat quite well and provide balance to a group and fill multiple roles at a reduced percentage
OR
You pick a class (Warrior, Rogue, Cleric, Mage) base from the beginning. From there you decide upon a path to become a very focused dps'er, tank, healer ect. You then take the majority of one spec and use those talents and gear and skill to become great at one aspect of the game, and then rely on others to fill the vacancies that you leave.
It all depends on your play style, and what your expectations are. If you wanna group and raid, chances are you'll pick a speciality and try to adapt it as best as possible to suit your playstyle and get the most of out of it. There will most likely be "cookie cutter" specs that people say offer the most, but the great thing is that with so many sub-genres, it will be hard to justify one spec being better than ALL OTHERS. That's the beauty of it. If you wanna solo and be able to sustain yourself on your own when you play, you can do that too.
There was a cool video of one of the developers talking about being an assassin who specialized in close quarters, up front quick damage but states that part of the downside to this class in previous games was your lack of moves that prevents the mob from running away when low on life. He then states that in RIFT, your able to pull in a few talents from the Ranger tree to do damage from a distance when they pull away. The functionality that this game will introduce to class mixing will be revolutionary.
But, like everything new, it's scary to people who like to have control and know the in's and out's of the game before it even hits shelves.
In the end, it's still 3 talent trees. Just an option to choose 3 different trees.
EQ2 offers more talent wise than this.
But your wrong. Have you watched the video on riftgame.com about the soul system? It's much more complex than the talent system in WoW for example. You have two basic systems for each "talent tree" in RIFT.
You have "Roots" and "Branches" and unlike other games where your roots are pre-designed based on your class choice and your corresponding level, this game gives customization a whole new meaning. According to the video, you spend your points per level on the branches and that corresponds to opening up certain "roots" which are core abilities for that particular class archtype.
So let's say your a guy who wants to be a healer/mage/tank hybrid type. Although that combination is probably highly unlikely, I have heard them reference a Plate Healer/Tank/Anti-Magic type of character (Reference: Podcast 21 riftpodcast.com). It is probably safe to assume that this type of character will have basic abilities of all three archtypes, but lack the higher level abilities.
On the flip-side, let's say you want to be the best tank for a raiding style guild on RIFT. You can focus all your talent points on the branches of the archtype you consider to be the most adept at tanking and then use any remaining points to make yourself harder to hit, tougher to take down, or easier to heal ... whatever works for you. The more wide-range you go, the lesser abilities your going to have, and the deeper down you go, the tougher your abilities are going to be, but the more you'll have to rely on other players to cover up your weaknesses.
Every MMO game is simple. You get what you put in. Seriously ... look into the branches/roots system .. it may open your eyes a little bit more.
I dunno but i want to see the math, i played both ddo and FFXI and FFXIV and i can say there are not even close to the same amount of possible class combinations. you have some 90+ possible combines between the 4 archtypes in Rifts you dont even hit half that with FF or ddo hell you can add them both together and still not come close.
Quite a bold statement. In DDO, which was inspired by D&D, you can atleast be that tank/mage if you want to.
Wasn't the original post exactly about the fact that one cannot be a Paladin/Shaman/Ranger (Warrior/Cleric/Rogue)? In other words: no multiclassing beyond callings. It significantly reduces the available combinations.
In Rift, there are 4 callings with 5 classes each (that we know of).
Available 3-class combinations = C(5, 3) = 10
Available dual-class combinations = C(5, 2) = 10
Available single class options = C(5, 1) = 5
Class combinations within one calling is then 25. That means there are 100 different class combinations in the game. The above is made with the assumption that player can stick to just one or two classes if he/she so chooses. Also, it doesn't take into account how the player allocates the points or (souls) within those classes.
Now DDO has 11 classes. I vaguelly remember that while D&D (3.5) doesn't limit the amount of multiclasses, in DDO you cannot choose more than 3 classes.
Available 3-class combinations = C(11, 3) = 165
Available dual-class combinations = C(11, 2) = 55
Available single class options = C(11, 1) = 11
That amounts to 231 different class choices. Like with the Rift example, the above doesn't take into account how many levels does the player allocate to each class, where the skill points are allocated nor what feats does the character have.
C(n, k) calculates how many different combinations of k can be found from n choices without repetition. More information here.
DarkAsmodeus is right. DDO alone has more class combinations than Rift.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I dunno but i want to see the math, i played both ddo and FFXI and FFXIV and i can say there are not even close to the same amount of possible class combinations. you have some 90+ possible combines between the 4 archtypes in Rifts you dont even hit half that with FF or ddo hell you can add them both together and still not come close.
Quite a bold statement. In DDO, which was inspired by D&D, you can atleast be that tank/mage if you want to.
Wasn't the original post exactly about the fact that one cannot be a Paladin/Shaman/Ranger (Warrior/Cleric/Rogue)? In other words: no multiclassing beyond callings. It significantly reduces the available combinations.
In Rift, there are 4 callings with 5 classes each (that we know of).
Available 3-class combinations = C(5, 3) = 10
Available dual-class combinations = C(5, 2) = 10
Available single class options = C(5, 1) = 5
Class combinations within one calling is then 25. That means there are 100 different class combinations in the game. The above is made with the assumption that player can stick to just one or two classes if he/she so chooses. Also, it doesn't take into account how the player allocates the points or (souls) within those classes.
Now DDO has 11 classes. I vaguelly remember that while D&D (3.5) doesn't limit the amount of multiclasses, in DDO you cannot choose more than 3 classes.
Available 3-class combinations = C(11, 3) = 165
Available dual-class combinations = C(11, 2) = 55
Available single class options = C(11, 1) = 11
That amounts to 231 different class choices. Like with the Rift example, the above doesn't take into account how many levels does the player allocate to each class, where the skill points are allocated nor what feats does the character have.
C(n, k) calculates how many different combinations of k can be found from n choices without repetition. More information here.
DarkAsmodeus is right. DDO alone has more class combinations than Rift.
I have never played DDO so I cannot really comment on the exact point of the thread but here is my question ....
All the pretty math aside, how many of those 231 classes were TRULY useful? Of course it's nice to give the player the ultimate to choice to create a ManBearPig, but does it help him out with the game as a whole? Will he be successful finding groups and raids with Random Spec #197?
My guess is that there are obvious "core" parts of any MMO and then there are the ridiculous amounts of classes that DDO provides. My spider sense tells me they are kinda meeting in the middle and giving customization options, without going over the top.
Comments
so many replying to this seem to be unawarem that their original plan were to let ppl spec into any archclass on the same char - not letting you pick any 3 subclass from any archclass at once, and by this let you level any class at any time without making alts....wish they had sticked to this, not that its a gamebreaker, but grown into hatein alts.
I think people should play games like Champions Online to see just why that completely open-ended class system is only good in theory. It's nearly impossible to balance gameplay like that. All it leads to is a ton of forum flaming when people find that right combination of imbalanced overpoweredness. Then you're either prey, or you suck it up and pick the same build as everyone else just to have a fighting chance. There's a reason why class systems impose restrictions.
I'm sure there's a way to be open-ended without these problems, but it doesn't seem like anyone's really perfected that balance, yet.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Balance is an illusion, right? It really is. Trion is not going to bend to the false balancing act, which I'm comforted to know, or at least expect. We'll see,
Sure, if this was a purely pvp oriented game.
It aint!
Ack!
If your'e after some old school flavour then the worst thing possible is to blend all the classes together. EQ started going down the pan when all classes began to merge with everyone being able to carry out a few watered down functions of each others class.
Why bother even having a class system if you just want it all? A good class system works well, it is part of the mechanics of the game.
My own belief (just mine... chill out) is that each class should have a unique ability that no other has.
Old school, if you needed your corpse back from under the feet of that nasty boss mob.... pay a necro.
Need to get there quick... befriend a druid ect,
You either want to play an online MMO and make some good friends and have fun with some good old character interaction, or just hole up in a darkened room on your own- your uber; I can do everything character dont need no one else... Yawn.
Truth be told you lost interest when you couldn't have it all... no one cares.
Really looking forward to this game.
LOL what a joke. That's the best system possible without giving players the WTFLETMESOLOEVERYTHING class combinations of FFXIV. If classes in an MMO have no defined roles there is no reason to play. Find something legitimate to whine about.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Dude every mmorpg has 1-2 things thats good at it. Wow has 8-9 things better than the others thats cause its n1 in sales. DDo has best character advance system +freedom in multiclass ,some games offer weapon's type of dmg crushing,piercing slashing etc,soeothers weapon's range stats,some others better grafix. FF has also 1-2 good things but overall it sucks,thats why it failed as mmorpg .
Concerning Rift i can say since w espeak of classes design and to OP: Obviously u don't know what Soul system does in RIFT. There are hundrends of different combinations of various classes of souls u can pick making your class feeeling and playing differently than other fellows of same class. Since they decided to implement that soul system it would be impossible to make dual-class system happen .The reasons are obvious concerning why.
I'm too lazy to find the article, but I remember reading about a Dev giving a demonstration of a DPS character he had made: The character was mostly rogue but mixed with a little caster. In the demonstration he showed how he could "blink" (caster) in use a series of "backstab" (rogue) type abilities then "bink" out and cast a few fireballs (caster) at the enemy.
I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like the same old boring class to me. It's awesome that the player can come up with combinations like that. I'm looking forward to the day when I'll be examining all of the options and come up with some cool combination like the blink-striking rogue. I feel like we'd almost lose uniqueness if we were allowed to mix archetypes because so many people would just mix tank/healer/dps.
Try doing that on Tera or gw2, I love the way the soul system sounds I just hope it is as fleshed out as they say it will be.you cant mix the archetypes m8, there may be some "mage like" abilities for the rogue, but its a rogue ability in RIFT then - you can mix the 8 classes in your archtype, which is a main reason why I d even want to try the game
Seriously ? No seriously?!
Yes, lets just remove all consequence for choices in MMORPG's. We might as well remove the RPG part of their title and just call them MMOG's. While you are at it, we should all start with max level characters so we don't have to attain it through our own effort. Well hell, while you are at it, lets just take the level system out of it and we'll all be even from the start.
Since we'll all be even level, lets get rid of all different types of gear and give everyone a single set so we can all be even. Then we can give all characters the ability to instantly change the class type so we don't have to search for 20 minutes for a specific class type so we can run groups.
Hell with that, lets just do away with groups because we should be able to run instances by ourselves.
It's idiot posters such as the OP that strip away the best part of MMORPG's. The fact that your choice has consequences and may affect your gameplay at a later date. There is nothing worth having that didn't take effort to attain and nothing gained that can't be lost that is worth attaining. It's so sad what gamer mentalities have become and those types have no idea how rewarding gaming can actually be.
Nice strawman you have there.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
This reminds me so much of the old Aion promises. Originally you were allowed to use any stigmas from any class to add variety, eventually they realized it would be too hard to balance so they said fuck it class only stigmas. Eh, fuck faction games.
Hey geek, calm this rage a bit eh? Have you ever even played D&D, final fnatasy? You can take abilties from other archetypes, and AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS GAME (Rift) that is what they stated you could do, and then they narrowed it down.
You seem quite lost actually. This has nothing to do with all of us being EQUAL. It has to do with the ability to pull from a ton of classes to make your own. Hence being very, very different. Please read before you go getting your panties in a twist next time you dumb prick
When a man lies... he murders some part of the World.
This cracks me up your whining and you haven't a clue what your talking about... okay so the same old boring stuff you say, this game has 4 archtypes, withing each there are eight souls. Now out of those eight souls you can mix and match up to three of them.. Now my math may be off but thats something like 24 possible combinations per archtype. Now you name me one game that has even 24 classes in the entire game. Now you take there are 4 archtypes and do the math the possible class combos are beyond what any game out to date has for us to choose from and yet you are still whining and crying because there arent more?? I think its not the game thats the problem, its you, your the problem. Get off your high horse bud and understand they are about to offer you more in class customization than any game to date and your trying to tell us its the same old cookie cutter style game and everyone will be the same. What rock did you just crawl out from under? Really man you need to open your eyes and maybe read a bit more about how this game works.
They are taking it out of the pages of D&D and narrowing it down. DDO has more choices actually, so does final fantasy. Don't go spouting off unless you have a clue.
And even in these games, people will only spec into what have been determined as the most effective builds in the end, to be considered for groups. So yeah, same old same old. Please do some digging before commenting on this post
It has nothing to do whith a high horse, it has to do with what the DEVS stated themselves at the start of this game, as to where you could pull from any of the archetypes, which would have been a more interesting system in my opinion.
They did solve this to a certain degree by giving, say, a rogue some mage like abilities and tank like abilities in some of their classes within the archetype. So this solves a portion of it.
Still, this game doesnt offer more classes than DDO and FF. Don't go ranting off because I stated they could have done things differently, and the way they ORIGINALLY intended to.
Edit* Also as a side note EQ2 has more talent trees than this game, hell even AoC has just as many, if not more. Will the customization be good? I'm pretty sure that it will. But in the end you will see the same FORCED specs.
When a man lies... he murders some part of the World.
I dunno but i want to see the math, i played both ddo and FFXI and FFXIV and i can say there are not even close to the same amount of possible class combinations. you have some 90+ possible combines between the 4 archtypes in Rifts you dont even hit half that with FF or ddo hell you can add them both together and still not come close.
In the end, it's still 3 talent trees. Just an option to choose 3 different trees.
EQ2 offers more talent wise than this.
When a man lies... he murders some part of the World.
I'll give you that for talents, but what we must consider are what do the combos give in respect to abilites and other such bonuses. when you combine your three souls and build your talents respectively the changes that take place will set you far apart from anyone else unless they do the exact same thing. And sure in every game out there the theory crafters will come up with the best possible dps mix or tank mix and so forth but if you plan on stickin to whats absolutely the best at a single job say dps then I would say you maybe cuttin yer own throat. Because that other guy that has a little less dps but comes with survivability or even some CC or buffs will beat you out in the long run.
I am sorry this game is letting you down but really I honestly believe they are giving us far more choice in character customization than anything to date. And I will atleast give them the benefit of the doubt and give it a shot. I got my beta key and will try it out, and before i slam this game for anything ima try it for myself instead of trying to piece together tid bits of info here and there and come to a conclusion without working it myself in actual play time.
I believe you have some strong points in that they led us to believe very early on that we could chose anything from anything but then that would defeat the entire purpose of the archtypes all together so maybe they had to retract what they said because of this point. Reguardless bro I truly believe they deserve some credit with what they are trying to bring to the table and maybe You and I should just shut up and play then come back to bash later if it sux then. But untill we actually get to see it first hand all this is still just speculation.
And i love your sig
Hi Everyone,
New to MMORPG.com but definitely not to the fickle nature of gamers. I guess the following is my problem with the past 7 pages.... I warn you now ... giant wall of text, but I think it's very well thought out and put together well ... Hopefully you read it
NEWS FLASH!
Nobody is going to get everything they want out of an MMO. When you create a product that attracts the "masses", it's inconcievable to think every single person will be pleased. I will say that based on the preliminary research I've done, RIFT is doing it's very best to please as many people as possible.
What more can you ask from a company that is trying to create a product that is fun, fulfilling, entertaining, and SUSTAINABLE. They have to design the game with some limitations because if they don't, everyone runs around with a super-class and the game loses interest faster than an episode of "American Dad".
From the interviews, podcasts, and videos that I've watched, this game is going to give you plenty of customization to go along with sustainability. Here is the way I like to think of it, hear me out.
You pick a class (Warrior, Rogue, Cleric, Mage) base from the beginning. From there you have access to 8 sub-genres inside of each. You are able to pick 3 to mix and match. There are both positives and negatives to doing this. You can be a jack-of-all-trades good at everything, great at nothing type who can survive in solo combat quite well and provide balance to a group and fill multiple roles at a reduced percentage
OR
You pick a class (Warrior, Rogue, Cleric, Mage) base from the beginning. From there you decide upon a path to become a very focused dps'er, tank, healer ect. You then take the majority of one spec and use those talents and gear and skill to become great at one aspect of the game, and then rely on others to fill the vacancies that you leave.
It all depends on your play style, and what your expectations are. If you wanna group and raid, chances are you'll pick a speciality and try to adapt it as best as possible to suit your playstyle and get the most of out of it. There will most likely be "cookie cutter" specs that people say offer the most, but the great thing is that with so many sub-genres, it will be hard to justify one spec being better than ALL OTHERS. That's the beauty of it. If you wanna solo and be able to sustain yourself on your own when you play, you can do that too.
There was a cool video of one of the developers talking about being an assassin who specialized in close quarters, up front quick damage but states that part of the downside to this class in previous games was your lack of moves that prevents the mob from running away when low on life. He then states that in RIFT, your able to pull in a few talents from the Ranger tree to do damage from a distance when they pull away. The functionality that this game will introduce to class mixing will be revolutionary.
But, like everything new, it's scary to people who like to have control and know the in's and out's of the game before it even hits shelves.
Previous Characters:
Isen: Paladin - Vanguard: SOH
Oasu: Mage - WoW
Eashen: Paladin - WoW
Oryion: Warrior - Everquest 1
Previous Characters:
Isen: Paladin - Vanguard: SOH
Oasu: Mage - WoW
Eashen: Paladin - WoW
Oryion: Warrior - Everquest 1
Quite a bold statement. In DDO, which was inspired by D&D, you can atleast be that tank/mage if you want to.
Wasn't the original post exactly about the fact that one cannot be a Paladin/Shaman/Ranger (Warrior/Cleric/Rogue)? In other words: no multiclassing beyond callings. It significantly reduces the available combinations.
In Rift, there are 4 callings with 5 classes each (that we know of).
Available 3-class combinations = C(5, 3) = 10
Available dual-class combinations = C(5, 2) = 10
Available single class options = C(5, 1) = 5
Class combinations within one calling is then 25. That means there are 100 different class combinations in the game. The above is made with the assumption that player can stick to just one or two classes if he/she so chooses. Also, it doesn't take into account how the player allocates the points or (souls) within those classes.
Now DDO has 11 classes. I vaguelly remember that while D&D (3.5) doesn't limit the amount of multiclasses, in DDO you cannot choose more than 3 classes.
Available 3-class combinations = C(11, 3) = 165
Available dual-class combinations = C(11, 2) = 55
Available single class options = C(11, 1) = 11
That amounts to 231 different class choices. Like with the Rift example, the above doesn't take into account how many levels does the player allocate to each class, where the skill points are allocated nor what feats does the character have.
C(n, k) calculates how many different combinations of k can be found from n choices without repetition. More information here.
DarkAsmodeus is right. DDO alone has more class combinations than Rift.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I have never played DDO so I cannot really comment on the exact point of the thread but here is my question ....
All the pretty math aside, how many of those 231 classes were TRULY useful? Of course it's nice to give the player the ultimate to choice to create a ManBearPig, but does it help him out with the game as a whole? Will he be successful finding groups and raids with Random Spec #197?
My guess is that there are obvious "core" parts of any MMO and then there are the ridiculous amounts of classes that DDO provides. My spider sense tells me they are kinda meeting in the middle and giving customization options, without going over the top.
Previous Characters:
Isen: Paladin - Vanguard: SOH
Oasu: Mage - WoW
Eashen: Paladin - WoW
Oryion: Warrior - Everquest 1