so much damn whining about omg it's 8 v 8 it's not massive like star wars should be!!! who cares man really?? if you want to play the game then play it if not quit crying like babies lol. Remember one thing, running mass pvp would bog the server down like you wouldn't believe and most people aren't sitting on killer computers to handle the lag anyways, so what is it, whine about the 8 v 8 or whine when you can't move your stupid character in a 50 v 50?
They aren't complaining about it not being 50 vs 50... they're complaining that it won't be 6 on 1.
Actually, we're complaining that it won't be 20-50 vs. 20-50. Sure, there is lag to contend with in those situations, but those of us with decent computers only have occasional spikes (and before some smart ass complains that we can't all shop at Alienware, I'm running an Nvidia GT 220, turn your graphics down in massive PvP, the play and not the scenery is what's important in massive PvP). There is a tremendous difference between a fight with 8 on 8 (or 4 on 4, 10 on 10, 6 on 6, etc.) and having no less than 20 people per side fighting. You have to coordinate to win, actual tactics come in to play, and there is real chaos on the battlefield at times. In short, it's a lot of fun.
I disagree with the "PvP" part being anywhere near as important as PvE for a game like SW:TOR. Unless a game is purely PvP, PvE is far more important.
SW:TOR could remove PvP entirely, and I wouldn't bat an eyelash.
Yes, but so many of the rest of us wouldn't bother to open our wallets to buy it. PvP is important, period. I'm very happy that they are making it part of the story, since that gives it a real "this is part of the universe" feel. But I want more than 8 vs. 8, and I'm hoping they develop it quickly post-release.
The question was never whether the PvE would immersive, or the PvP. The question is how long the immersive content will last in this themepark styled game. The sheer amount of content going into this game is going to be surreal if they expect people to keep coming back every month.
While that other game with the biggest launch in gaming history can make it with 14 maps and bunch of weapons slapped together. I'm not making a judgment on their business intellect, but I am impressed at how willing they are to suffer huge down costs for a game that for once seems to be guided by vision and not backseat CEOs calculating expected short term profit margins.
If Bioware succeeds, I hope Bethesda will be forced to jump into the fray with their own megaproject MMO sandbox equivalent.
This was really interesting till I hit the bit that said 8 v 8. I thought the PvP in a star wars game should be large, epic scale fights. 8 is not large and epic to me. I was hoping for fights in the 30s at least, similar to the pvp area in SWG where you get some really nice big battles going.
The battles are not supposed to be giant epic wars. The narrative of the game is a peace agreement, albeit a shaky one. the small skirmishes fit perfectly.
so much damn whining about omg it's 8 v 8 it's not massive like star wars should be!!! who cares man really?? if you want to play the game then play it if not quit crying like babies lol. Remember one thing, running mass pvp would bog the server down like you wouldn't believe and most people aren't sitting on killer computers to handle the lag anyways, so what is it, whine about the 8 v 8 or whine when you can't move your stupid character in a 50 v 50?
They aren't complaining about it not being 50 vs 50... they're complaining that it won't be 6 on 1.
Actually, we're complaining that it won't be 20-50 vs. 20-50. Sure, there is lag to contend with in those situations, but those of us with decent computers only have occasional spikes (and before some smart ass complains that we can't all shop at Alienware, I'm running an Nvidia GT 220, turn your graphics down in massive PvP, the play and not the scenery is what's important in massive PvP). There is a tremendous difference between a fight with 8 on 8 (or 4 on 4, 10 on 10, 6 on 6, etc.) and having no less than 20 people per side fighting. You have to coordinate to win, actual tactics come in to play, and there is real chaos on the battlefield at times. In short, it's a lot of fun.
I was mostly speaking about the "omgz no world PvP!?!?" and "No FFA PvP!?!!" comments. Those people don't give a whit about balance or fair/fun fights.
As far as SW:TOR and its PvE/PvP scenarios, I would guess that a PvE only SW:TOR game (concentrating only on PVE stuff) would be far more popular than PvP only SW:TOR which only concentrated on PvP. And I believe a PvE only game would do even better than the PvE/PvP hybrid they're trying to do. EQ1 came out PvE only and was a huge hit, even "THE" PvP game (UO) was around.
Bioware wants to offer lots of options and not limit your style of play. They have guys from Mythic, and the Swg guys. They are capable of doing good PvP. The only thing I read so far that they limited choice was space combat. I want a Co-Op and PvP space option. Open PvP ground combat has been confirmed in select areas. If you are interested in this game for PvP. Please go to their website www.swtor.com, register and spam it for PvP needs. I think theres like 3000 threads so far lol.
This was really interesting till I hit the bit that said 8 v 8. I thought the PvP in a star wars game should be large, epic scale fights. 8 is not large and epic to me. I was hoping for fights in the 30s at least, similar to the pvp area in SWG where you get some really nice big battles going.
Thinking the same thing, 8v8 sounds more like a mini-game rather than pvp.
I for one like the 8v8 PVP, and Open World PVP, it goes with the storyline. Since BW is making SW: TOR more of a PVE than a PVP, I prefer the small PVP than a full scale PVP war.
We are all puppets in a fancy show, the trick is to seize the ropes that bind us, and become the puppeteer
This was really interesting till I hit the bit that said 8 v 8. I thought the PvP in a star wars game should be large, epic scale fights. 8 is not large and epic to me. I was hoping for fights in the 30s at least, similar to the pvp area in SWG where you get some really nice big battles going.
I agree. Open World PvP that has any purpose to dynamic environmental game-play is pure speculation,aside from the generic 'we have something in-store' comment. 8v8 shoe-box cage-match battlegrounds, much like that did absolutely nothing for the Massively-Multiplayer dual faction of WAR or STO, but to horribly dissapoint a player-base about a lobby-system single-player game and disengage the audience from any real semblance of cooperative and competitive game-play against anything other than predictable computer-controlled and tethered mobs, is what potentially concerns me about TOR.
As it appears, TOR will live up to the expectations of single-player, team-base PvE play that we have drudged through with many another garden-variety mmo's over the last 5-years, but as that static and linear experience gets old fast, whether your weilding a sword or light-saber, there doesn't seem to be any Massively-Multiplayer dynamic community call-to arms or purposeful large-scale cooperative or competitive environmental game-play to motivate one faction against the opposing faction of "players", other than playing with a multiple of players simultaneously yet singularly, or in small instanced lobby with a handful of other players, within the same environment.
8v8? Could make sense to combat lag issues I guess, ca 1998... But what purpose would open pvp serve in this iteration? To hinder other players from questing? They're not going to suddenly implement any grand pvp mechanics like territorial and resource control, persistant player created content and whatnot all of a sudden.
Not sure what people were expecting, all they've said is 8 vs 8 pvp and open world pvp at the moment, wishing it was more then that is raising expectations higher then what is being said (which is suppose to be the fans job :P)
If your a PvP person you can certainly do that, but you have to keep in mind it's a BW game first (story is paramount) and WAR second. You can take turrents ala a hold situation, you take control of it and it starts firing at the other ship but others can take it back to start firing at your own. (it's possible you might be able to take over areas like buildings, maybe, in the open pvp worlds but that speculation as they've said nothing on that front.)
Remember PvE first PvP second. Least until endgame when you do all the normal things, PvP, crafting, quests and raids.
To plainly put it, all they did was take a PvE centric MMO. Add a few tweaks (Voice over, enemy AI, choices in story, space flight and cover system) and put it in the star wars universe.
Really nothing more then that.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
8v8? Could make sense to combat lag issues I guess, ca 1998... But what purpose would open pvp serve in this iteration? To hinder other players from questing? They're not going to suddenly implement any grand pvp mechanics like territorial and resource control, persistant player created content and whatnot all of a sudden.
Its a space setting means unlike a planet setting , you can easily divert resources to a new totally meaningless planet.
And make it a open world pvp planet , well not that many will be forced to visit it .
But thats up to the developers to implement , if there is large enough demands for it .
Thats unlike traditional MMO settings who are island bound or world bound .
Its much easier in space setting to open up planets for open PvP , or planets still in conflicts or on border zones.
It easily fits into the lore the outer rim is stil contested and free for all .
Toss in some rare minerals or whatever you have for the PVP players there gank zones .
Open PvP planets are the easiest to implement in Star Wars setting especially since they have free reign to improvise .
Single player games are fun. Co-op games are fun. Single player co-op game with a monthly price tag on top of box sale is a rip-off. Here's hoping the storyline is as deep as everyone says and not just their B.S. There will never be another WoW, in space, on earth, under the earth or in the land of vampires.
Take any MMO, take WoW for instance as thats the most recognizable
See how that has quest, pvp, raids, grouping?
Okay now take that quests: Now add choices for your player inside those quests..
Make them fully voiced over.
Now you have pretty much what ToR is.
Same basic thing here. They aren't doing a single player game, they are spicing up MMOs with their own twist.
They've taken a normal MMO, put it in the star wars universe, tweak a few things: more in depth story, choices in those stories, morphing character, cover system/enemy AI and placed it out there.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Single player games are fun. Co-op games are fun. Single player co-op game with a monthly price tag on top of box sale is a rip-off. Here's hoping the storyline is as deep as everyone says and not just their B.S. There will never be another WoW, in space, on earth, under the earth or in the land of vampires.
Here is what ripoff is for you , ALL PAST MMO were ripoffs , why cause you bought a unfinished product !!
That has no sense no direction , other then wait till updates and expansions .
And GASP YOU PAID MONTLY ASIDE FROM THE BOX !!!
And guess what a small community tought it was fine
Now SWTOR sets up new innovations and guidelines a bit like WOW did , with introducing 8 fully fledge singleplayer stories into a MMO setting , that makes people PAY to play there favorite game !!
And offers more !! its a RIP OFF SUDDENLY ?
Honestly i have too little time left , but post like these makes me wonder , how far people are brainwashed into deluding themself , instead of coming up with COMMON SENSE answers .
The reason for WOW success is it appeals to common sense with SKINNER BOX , the reason SWTOR succes will be cause it applies to common sense but offers SKINNER BOX , any other product can join Cryptic and F2P way of thinking customers are just sheeps that needs to be leaded around .
Sorry for my post full of grammar errors and harsh tone , yes i could have refined it a bit more , but REAL LIFE calls .
Thats kinda creepy when you think about it, never really thought of camping for loot as the same thing as pulling a lever on a slot machines, Guess it is though, Pull the leaver aka kill the monster. See if you get coins aka loot.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Open PVP is where it's at! Instanced arenas can be fun with certain game elements and strategies and all. But I miss good ole' fashion pvp like WoW was when it first came out.
Amen, brother. I'm not hating on the PvE crowd or the new MMO players that will be flocking to the PvE servers, but the only way to roll for the MMO vets is on a PvP server, especially for SWTOR.
There will always be the crys of hinderance, interference, intollerance, accessability, welfare, hand-outs, special-education, entitlements, simplicity, affirmative-action; it becomes a circular discussion.
Comments
Actually, we're complaining that it won't be 20-50 vs. 20-50. Sure, there is lag to contend with in those situations, but those of us with decent computers only have occasional spikes (and before some smart ass complains that we can't all shop at Alienware, I'm running an Nvidia GT 220, turn your graphics down in massive PvP, the play and not the scenery is what's important in massive PvP). There is a tremendous difference between a fight with 8 on 8 (or 4 on 4, 10 on 10, 6 on 6, etc.) and having no less than 20 people per side fighting. You have to coordinate to win, actual tactics come in to play, and there is real chaos on the battlefield at times. In short, it's a lot of fun.
Yes, but so many of the rest of us wouldn't bother to open our wallets to buy it. PvP is important, period. I'm very happy that they are making it part of the story, since that gives it a real "this is part of the universe" feel. But I want more than 8 vs. 8, and I'm hoping they develop it quickly post-release.
The question was never whether the PvE would immersive, or the PvP. The question is how long the immersive content will last in this themepark styled game. The sheer amount of content going into this game is going to be surreal if they expect people to keep coming back every month.
While that other game with the biggest launch in gaming history can make it with 14 maps and bunch of weapons slapped together. I'm not making a judgment on their business intellect, but I am impressed at how willing they are to suffer huge down costs for a game that for once seems to be guided by vision and not backseat CEOs calculating expected short term profit margins.
If Bioware succeeds, I hope Bethesda will be forced to jump into the fray with their own megaproject MMO sandbox equivalent.
The battles are not supposed to be giant epic wars. The narrative of the game is a peace agreement, albeit a shaky one. the small skirmishes fit perfectly.
I was mostly speaking about the "omgz no world PvP!?!?" and "No FFA PvP!?!!" comments. Those people don't give a whit about balance or fair/fun fights.
As far as SW:TOR and its PvE/PvP scenarios, I would guess that a PvE only SW:TOR game (concentrating only on PVE stuff) would be far more popular than PvP only SW:TOR which only concentrated on PvP. And I believe a PvE only game would do even better than the PvE/PvP hybrid they're trying to do. EQ1 came out PvE only and was a huge hit, even "THE" PvP game (UO) was around.
Thinking the same thing, 8v8 sounds more like a mini-game rather than pvp.
I for one like the 8v8 PVP, and Open World PVP, it goes with the storyline. Since BW is making SW: TOR more of a PVE than a PVP, I prefer the small PVP than a full scale PVP war.
We are all puppets in a fancy show, the trick is to seize the ropes that bind us, and become the puppeteer
I agree. Open World PvP that has any purpose to dynamic environmental game-play is pure speculation,aside from the generic 'we have something in-store' comment. 8v8 shoe-box cage-match battlegrounds, much like that did absolutely nothing for the Massively-Multiplayer dual faction of WAR or STO, but to horribly dissapoint a player-base about a lobby-system single-player game and disengage the audience from any real semblance of cooperative and competitive game-play against anything other than predictable computer-controlled and tethered mobs, is what potentially concerns me about TOR.
As it appears, TOR will live up to the expectations of single-player, team-base PvE play that we have drudged through with many another garden-variety mmo's over the last 5-years, but as that static and linear experience gets old fast, whether your weilding a sword or light-saber, there doesn't seem to be any Massively-Multiplayer dynamic community call-to arms or purposeful large-scale cooperative or competitive environmental game-play to motivate one faction against the opposing faction of "players", other than playing with a multiple of players simultaneously yet singularly, or in small instanced lobby with a handful of other players, within the same environment.
8v8? Could make sense to combat lag issues I guess, ca 1998... But what purpose would open pvp serve in this iteration? To hinder other players from questing? They're not going to suddenly implement any grand pvp mechanics like territorial and resource control, persistant player created content and whatnot all of a sudden.
It's WoW with a Star Wars theme...
https://albiononline.com/?ref=7MN1FPEZ82
I'll split the gold with you.
Not sure what people were expecting, all they've said is 8 vs 8 pvp and open world pvp at the moment, wishing it was more then that is raising expectations higher then what is being said (which is suppose to be the fans job :P)
If your a PvP person you can certainly do that, but you have to keep in mind it's a BW game first (story is paramount) and WAR second. You can take turrents ala a hold situation, you take control of it and it starts firing at the other ship but others can take it back to start firing at your own. (it's possible you might be able to take over areas like buildings, maybe, in the open pvp worlds but that speculation as they've said nothing on that front.)
Remember PvE first PvP second. Least until endgame when you do all the normal things, PvP, crafting, quests and raids.
To plainly put it, all they did was take a PvE centric MMO. Add a few tweaks (Voice over, enemy AI, choices in story, space flight and cover system) and put it in the star wars universe.
Really nothing more then that.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Its a space setting means unlike a planet setting , you can easily divert resources to a new totally meaningless planet.
And make it a open world pvp planet , well not that many will be forced to visit it .
But thats up to the developers to implement , if there is large enough demands for it .
Thats unlike traditional MMO settings who are island bound or world bound .
Its much easier in space setting to open up planets for open PvP , or planets still in conflicts or on border zones.
It easily fits into the lore the outer rim is stil contested and free for all .
Toss in some rare minerals or whatever you have for the PVP players there gank zones .
Open PvP planets are the easiest to implement in Star Wars setting especially since they have free reign to improvise .
Single player games are fun. Co-op games are fun. Single player co-op game with a monthly price tag on top of box sale is a rip-off. Here's hoping the storyline is as deep as everyone says and not just their B.S. There will never be another WoW, in space, on earth, under the earth or in the land of vampires.
I think there is some misconception here.
This i think is the proper way to look at it.
Take any MMO, take WoW for instance as thats the most recognizable
See how that has quest, pvp, raids, grouping?
Okay now take that quests: Now add choices for your player inside those quests..
Make them fully voiced over.
Now you have pretty much what ToR is.
Same basic thing here. They aren't doing a single player game, they are spicing up MMOs with their own twist.
They've taken a normal MMO, put it in the star wars universe, tweak a few things: more in depth story, choices in those stories, morphing character, cover system/enemy AI and placed it out there.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Here is what ripoff is for you , ALL PAST MMO were ripoffs , why cause you bought a unfinished product !!
That has no sense no direction , other then wait till updates and expansions .
And GASP YOU PAID MONTLY ASIDE FROM THE BOX !!!
And guess what a small community tought it was fine
Now SWTOR sets up new innovations and guidelines a bit like WOW did , with introducing 8 fully fledge singleplayer stories into a MMO setting , that makes people PAY to play there favorite game !!
And offers more !! its a RIP OFF SUDDENLY ?
Honestly i have too little time left , but post like these makes me wonder , how far people are brainwashed into deluding themself , instead of coming up with COMMON SENSE answers .
The reason for WOW success is it appeals to common sense with SKINNER BOX , the reason SWTOR succes will be cause it applies to common sense but offers SKINNER BOX , any other product can join Cryptic and F2P way of thinking customers are just sheeps that needs to be leaded around .
Sorry for my post full of grammar errors and harsh tone , yes i could have refined it a bit more , but REAL LIFE calls .
What is a skinner box?
The game isn't even out yet and I can already tell ya....
http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted_p1.html
Here is a text example there is a video made for dummies out there on the net .
To explain skinner box .
EDIT here is the video for dummies .
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2487-The-Skinner-Box
Thats kinda creepy when you think about it, never really thought of camping for loot as the same thing as pulling a lever on a slot machines, Guess it is though, Pull the leaver aka kill the monster. See if you get coins aka loot.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
ITs ok , nothing creepy about it , its a way of life and excercised in many things ,
Just wow pulled the extreme on that one !!
You work cause you need to live , you want more rewarding work , but you dont want to take risk .
Like explained in skinner box for dummy , if everybody wants to gamble to earn 100 a day , they can .
Just its not meant for everybody and some can´t take the risk , or control themselfs .
SWTOR doesn´t have a forced skinner box cause its optional cause of the story lines , will get you the quest rewards you need.
Its the endgame thats probaly a skinner box mentality , nothing you can do its the endgtame after all .
Amen, brother. I'm not hating on the PvE crowd or the new MMO players that will be flocking to the PvE servers, but the only way to roll for the MMO vets is on a PvP server, especially for SWTOR.
There will always be the crys of hinderance, interference, intollerance, accessability, welfare, hand-outs, special-education, entitlements, simplicity, affirmative-action; it becomes a circular discussion.
No Open World PVP = No Subscription !!!
Care..read the feature list in the forums. Thanks.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.