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Why do people keeping calling DCUO shallow?
Silacoid
Member UncommonPosts: 237
I don't understand what people think is shallow about this game? There are so many weapon/powerset/movement combos that you can find a ton of variety and the cities seem pretty extensive to me so far.
Comments
Lack of content. I can finish the game in less than 2 months and all there will be left to do is grind for gear. I like the game but sadly not worthy of a 50-60 doall box price, monthly fees and cash shop. I'll wait to see how long it takes them to add content such as an expansion or DLC before I even consider buying it.
.. and yet couldnt create a char that i liked, even in CO something could be done, put there lag, "same ol" stuff u have nothing interesting to play
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
You only start with a few basic pieces of gear and such, you unlock most of it through playing the game.... much deeper than CO. : )
Tagging custume items to gear drops isn't deep dude. CO even does it w/ certain power/replacer items. They just don't do it to the point that your initial character creation options are pathetically limited.
I think DCUO is probably a pretty good game for what it is, a heroes vs villian game. It just came out, there's a lot they could do with it in the future.
But why is it shallow? First off, whose to say that shallow is necessarily a bad thing. Some people like simple as it's quick and easy to get into. Shallow has its place. Maybe 'simple' is a better word than shallow as shallow has a kind of negative connotation.
But basically there are two roles in the game, hero and villian. Combat.
In Precu SWG you had 26 different classes. You could break them up into different roles...you had combat, healing, entertainment, crafter, gatherer, city builder, politician, businessman, soldier, pilot...and probably some others I"m missing. But the more roles you had with interraction, the greater the depth. People mined for ore, built vehicles and furniture and houses and guild halls and cities. They waged war across nine worlds and space as well.
Now DCUO is not trying to be Precu SWG. It's not trying to be, nor should it be. But you seem to not know shallow game play from a deeper, more sophisticated type of game in terms of design and gameplay options.
I honestly like the way DCUO is for the initial char creation. I enjoy earning my gear in some way or another.
I did like the CO character creation as well, but looking almost exactly the same through 80% of the game just got old.
I also find the DCUO combat better (more fun) than CO and CoX. To each his own.
So your example of depth is SWG precu grind boxes?
Maybe because you can only have a certain number of abilities active at a time... and it's action based combat.
Both of these things I like very much. It get's very aggrovating managing like 30 abilities that's common in other games.
I've also always wanted an action combat MMO just like DCUO. I think I'll be playing this game for awhile
The game kinda reminds me of shadowrun for the genesis which is a good thing because I loved that game. If only they added cyberspace to DCUO, that would be epic.
I have high hopes, SOE have proven that they are the masters of pushing new content....
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
This game DEFINES shallow.
Leveling: You can hit max level in less than 24 hours time played.
Combat: Clearly designed for a controller with 10 buttons, you can only have 8 abilities equipped. (most mmos have at least 20-30 abilities per class) More abilities = more depth and requires more knowledge of your class and when to use certain abilities.
End game: Raiding, arenas, duos, legends... thats it. everything you do at end game is quened for... you could sit in the hall of doom/hero city and never have a reaosn to leave at level 30.
This game was clearly designed for casual console play not sure why they even released it for PC but im sure they made money off of it and its SOE so nothing new there.
Its ironic. I find this analysis rather shallow.
Number of buttons is not the same as number of options.
The Warden class in LOTRO can use 4 buttons to execute well over 30 abilities.
In DCU you get 8 buttons. 6 of which are powers. You have two roles. When you change roles you change the button assignments. Thus you could have 6 more abiltiies by switching roles. In addition some power completely change your buttons when you use them. Shapeshifting and stealth both cuase you to get a new set of abilities while they are actoive You will also most like ly have at least 6 differetn combo and may have up to around 10 or so.
Right there I have listed out 15-30 options depending on powerset and role usage. That games like WoW or EQ or LOTRO (other than the Warden class) force me to have 3-5 hotbars that take up way too much screen space and have to be clicked to use in order to have the same number of abiltiies to use is not really something to brag abotu actually.
And before people say the fighting combo don't count as separate abilties, some of your best crowd control is in the weapon combo both for juggling mobs and for Knockback and stuns. Some of which are AoE. Martials arts has a very easy to pull off ranged combo with Hold + Hold that is an AOE stun.
You also forgot that there are combos that serve different purposes, some create distance, some knockdown, etc.
I'd take this over a convoluted ability set with abilities I have to click or stretch my hand across the whole keyboard to use.
Also, using a controller feels much more natural than a keyboard. This game was designed for a controller and I love it.
There's more things to do at end game as well, like collections, and feats. Not a lot of games out there with even the amount of end game activities that are in DCUO.
But what is there to do besides combat?
I mean. STO was pure combat too. Was not too bad. It just got boring real fast, doing the same thing over and over again. And so it just failed as people just got bored with it real quick.
The reason MMO's (the good and succesful ones) have a long lasting appeal and keep people subscribed for months even years. Is because they offer so many other features than just combat.
Like Auction House, Crafting, harvesting, collections, mini games, housing, etc, etc.
So again. What does DCUO offer besides Combat (and using it to grind gear) ??
No, what keeps a game going for months and years is raids, PvP, and gear. For many MMO's there's a race to get to the max level so they can do that stuff. Harvesting, crafting, housing, etc... Only applies to certain gamers. Many others could care less about that stuff, and some downright hate it. That stuff may grab a broader audience, but it has nothing to do with how long people will think the game is fun. CoH didn't/doesn't have a lot of that stuff. If the end-game stuff is fun and engaging people will stay regardless of if there is personal housing. Honestly, I can do without harvesting, crafting, and housing. Not one of those would keep me playing a game. There are plenty of other games around if that stuff is really fun for you.
There are already collections in the game. Auction houses use to be on the base tours, so they will probably be there at some point. You also get achievments for completing missions/battles without using consumables, or without getting KO'd, so you have something to shoot for. There are also the races for flying, acrobatics, and running, so I guess you could call them mini-games. It's also possible that they could implement housing if they ever follow through on the secret identities idea.
It amazes me that so many people worry about "long lasting appeal". Enjoy it for the short term appeal and see if you want to stay. It will be fun long term, or it won't. It makes no sense to speculate in advance. If the gameplay is not fun, crafting won't save it. My personal take on the game is that it is fun. Even if i only play it for a few months i will get more out of it than most games. I have no idea if I will still like it in a year from now. Time will tell.
LMAO! Seriously! Can you get any more wrong than that?
You know how many people RAID in WoW or EQ2? Only about 5 to 10% of the entire game population! So please!
The sole reason why people stick to EQ2 for example is exactly crafting, auction house, collections, housing, the AA system and all the quest content that is available in the game!
It's the whole social aspect that it creates with all those features that keep the true majority of people hooked to the game for years.
So stop making excuses for SOE releasing yet another unfinished game too early.
As example. STO has great combat and great skill system with lots of customisation options.
But that was it and all you did. Combat, combat, combat and collect some artifact junk to turn in at Alpha.
People just got bored with it real quick. And it showed. As there was a major drop of players within the first month alone already.
We will see 1 or 2 months from now how well DCUO is still doing. Not to mention if SOE is going to keep its promise with monthly updates and if they will all end up in the Cash Shop you will have to pay for ON TOP of your monthly sub. I wouldn't even be suprised.
EDIT:
I just did some checking around on the official forums and it is already more than obvious this game is nothing more than a Console port. And the complaints from PC users will only keep growing.
I only feel for them. As I have been playing both SWG and EQ2 to know SOE never listens.
http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=5876
http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=5201
http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=5282
Because there's only one mode of gameplay. Combat.
Why do people say it is shallow?
Lack of content - I don't necessarily think leveling fast is a terrible strategy. GW did it but you still had a lot of content to consume. I also don't think this is the best criticism of DCUO since it is NEW.
Lack of RP tools - They have M, they have M, and obviously O and G. But what about RP? Chat and grouping is cumbersome. This could be easily fixed. Few character options. I also don't think DCUO needs to do everything like CoH and give you a ton of options at the start. Finding gear along the way has its appeal. BUT, You have everyone with one of what 10 faces? I've seen better in crap f2p.
Limited power selections - especially in a Superhero game, there is a tradition of really interesting magic, mutations, sci-fi. If you read any comic book site for summaries you have equal parts character history, powers, and maybe lore. In DCUO, we are almost locked into fighting with weapons. All characters (except hand blast) are fundamentally soldiers of some type be it ninja, samurai, knight with some add on super powers. This setup made sense for Fallen Earth.
Lack of purpose for PvP - People have said it. I don't get it. I enjoy PvP for its own sake. Also, this is true of every game except EVE and DAOC.
Combat only - what is there to do for people that don't like fighting 100% of the time? races.
I was happy to have a smooth launch and it will be deep enough to get my $50 worth for sure.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
It seems that most people have forgotten about the promised MONTHLY updates. So, if it takes you 2 months to finish all the content (don't know how you came up with that), you will have 2 months of new content to go explore.
Also there are about 180 different movement/powerset/weapon combo so the choices are really not lacking. Just because you don't have the specific power you were looking for doesn't make it limited.
Listen to what people say is good about the game:
Combat
DCU characters/world
Beyond that there isn't a lot that people are raving about. It almost always reverts back to those two things and even then it is sort of abstract what has any depth or longevity to it.
Go beyond the positives of the game and you are bound to find something that is either limited in design or small in quantity.
The game is trying to be a pc mmo and a console action game at the same time, but does neither completely and is rather limited as a result of that direction.
no, because even then there are less choices than CO and it mean you are grinding for each character to get a look that you want. Not to mention the lack of facial, hair, color, size, powersets, UI only has 6 slots for powers, there is no sort of crafting or other sidelines other than combat, chat is horrid and the list just keeps going on and on. Shallow is being kind.
Well, it IS an action game that was designed around the limitations of a console controller. See FFXIV for a game where that design limitation was thoughtlessly ignored.
It IS a online game with a persistent world with hundreds of players. That fullfills the definition of MMO.
The shortcomings you're seeing would be a problem for a game that tries to be a traditional MMORPG with a Superhero paint job. That's not what it is. Most of the negative reviews you see are expecting DCU to be a game it never wanted nor pretended to be.
Again, you are limited by your enjoyment of these features not because the game lacks anything. I've played the game 2 months already in beta, and have paid to play the game a third month. The combat is very fun, and as the servers are packed right now, it makes for some very packed and entertaining battles.
At almost any point and time at the science police headquarters, I've seen anywhere from 5 vs 5 to a 10 vs 15 battle. Its a lot of fun, and when you take the PvP missions you complete them in a few short minutes in a battle like that.
Playing for the sake of fun. Why is that somehow a crime? Is fun not a good enough reason to stay subbed? Do I have to have a mindless timesink in order for me to have a reason to resub? Can't I have something fun to do, that requires a challenge like the feat system instead of a crafting or housing system that caters to the amount of time spent rather then my ability to play the game without people trying to dismiss it as being "shallow"?
Different does not equal shallow. More things to do does not equal complex. Having 50 pre determined skills on your skill bar doesn't automatically make the game tougher. So many misconceptions its staggering.
Well as many reviews stated, that isn't really the type of death alot of mmorpg gamers seek some like myself seek activities outside of the constant "combo executing" that you look at as variety.
I don't dislike the game but the fact remains that for many of us the sense is that you aren't going to log into this game unless you feel like running around killing hundreds of bad guys to the exclusion of anything else.
My feeling is that DCUO is a different type of mmorpg that follows in the mold of games like COH,CO,STO and such and I just don't feel like any of those games are worth a sub fee regardless of if they are fun to play or not.
For the record I think DCUO stands a cut above COH and I don't like either of Cryptics two games but they still haven't done enough for me to play this one yet, possibly a year or so down the line when it has alot more content so that I maybe could get six months out of it but for now I just can't see this game as being worth about $100 over a 2 month period.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
actually i can hit max level in 2-3 days without making those 12 hour days. from there the only things to do are duo's, raids, JLA quests, which all in turn are just rep grinds.
really you can do everything in the game in just a month, if you really enjoy the combat/pvp thats where the game will actually hold you.
it is a very messed up game, they could of done a lot better and would of dominated the super hero genre if they didnt limit the powers, number of abilities.
Because it is...
Enough people have already stated why.
This game needs (& will) to go B2P, thats all there is to it really.