Beyond that there isn't a lot that people are raving about. It almost always reverts back to those two things and even then it is sort of abstract what has any depth or longevity to it.
Go beyond the positives of the game and you are bound to find something that is either limited in design or small in quantity.
The game is trying to be a pc mmo and a console action game at the same time, but does neither completely and is rather limited as a result of that direction.
Again, you are limited by your enjoyment of these features not because the game lacks anything. I've played the game 2 months already in beta, and have paid to play the game a third month. The combat is very fun, and as the servers are packed right now, it makes for some very packed and entertaining battles.
At almost any point and time at the science police headquarters, I've seen anywhere from 5 vs 5 to a 10 vs 15 battle. Its a lot of fun, and when you take the PvP missions you complete them in a few short minutes in a battle like that.
Playing for the sake of fun. Why is that somehow a crime? Is fun not a good enough reason to stay subbed? Do I have to have a mindless timesink in order for me to have a reason to resub? Can't I have something fun to do, that requires a challenge like the feat system instead of a crafting or housing system that caters to the amount of time spent rather then my ability to play the game without people trying to dismiss it as being "shallow"?
Different does not equal shallow. More things to do does not equal complex. Having 50 pre determined skills on your skill bar doesn't automatically make the game tougher. So many misconceptions its staggering.
You keep saying how fun combat is as if you are trying to convince me or yourself of something. I didn't say the combat wasn't fun, but I think you just did what I said people do.
As for the servers being packed, why would that be a surprise during the games release? Lets see how those numbers are 3-6-12 months out. That is what the question of this thread is hinting at anyhow.
Speaking of misconceptions, DCU is not an "action" game. It has console style action combat wrapped around a few elements of trimmed down mmo features. You will be doing the exact same things as people in a typical mainstream mmo, but just lacking as many options/features as those other players have. Feats, collections, missions and yeah thats it. Same stuff, just less of it.
Not to say you can't enjoy it. Have a blast if you like, but don't try to represent it as something so different from other mmos and that it isn't lacking, shallow, scaled-down or whatever term you fancy.
Beyond that there isn't a lot that people are raving about. It almost always reverts back to those two things and even then it is sort of abstract what has any depth or longevity to it.
Go beyond the positives of the game and you are bound to find something that is either limited in design or small in quantity.
The game is trying to be a pc mmo and a console action game at the same time, but does neither completely and is rather limited as a result of that direction.
Again, you are limited by your enjoyment of these features not because the game lacks anything. I've played the game 2 months already in beta, and have paid to play the game a third month. The combat is very fun, and as the servers are packed right now, it makes for some very packed and entertaining battles.
At almost any point and time at the science police headquarters, I've seen anywhere from 5 vs 5 to a 10 vs 15 battle. Its a lot of fun, and when you take the PvP missions you complete them in a few short minutes in a battle like that.
Playing for the sake of fun. Why is that somehow a crime? Is fun not a good enough reason to stay subbed? Do I have to have a mindless timesink in order for me to have a reason to resub? Can't I have something fun to do, that requires a challenge like the feat system instead of a crafting or housing system that caters to the amount of time spent rather then my ability to play the game without people trying to dismiss it as being "shallow"?
Different does not equal shallow. More things to do does not equal complex. Having 50 pre determined skills on your skill bar doesn't automatically make the game tougher. So many misconceptions its staggering.
You keep saying how fun combat is as if you are trying to convince me or yourself of something. I didn't say the combat wasn't fun, but I think you just did what I said people do.
As for the servers being packed, why would that be a surprise during the games release? Lets see how those numbers are 3-6-12 months out. That is what the question of this thread is hinting at anyhow.
Speaking of misconceptions, DCU is not an "action" game. It has console style action combat wrapped around a few elements of trimmed down mmo features. You will be doing the exact same things as people in a typical mainstream mmo, but just lacking as many options/features as those other players have. Feats, collections, missions and yeah thats it. Same stuff, just less of it.
Not to say you can't enjoy it. Have a blast if you like, but don't try to represent it as something so different from other mmos and that it isn't lacking, shallow, scaled-down or whatever term you fancy.
How is this NOT an action game? It plays exactly like Prototype with multiplayer, raids, etcetera. That is an action game, why isn't this an action game? Because it has an MMO prefix? Because the quests have to be turned in afterwards?
Is this scaled down based on what, WoW standards? MMO standards? Your own personal standards? Less of it in comparison to what? Other MMOs? How many character creation options does WoW have? LOTRO? Maybe less options then other superhero MMOs? How many Raids does CO have? How many different PvP arenas? Is it because its missing crafting? The entire idea that there are these hard lines on what a game is or isn't is antiquated. This is a clear hybridization of the action RPG genre in an MMO setting. I don't see how that is even debateable.
How can this not be what it claims to be, if those are what they say they are? If Prototype is an Action Game and it plays extremely similar to DCUO, why is DCUO not an action game? I just don't understand this way of thinking.
LMAO! Seriously! Can you get any more wrong than that?
You know how many people RAID in WoW or EQ2? Only about 5 to 10% of the entire game population! So please!
The sole reason why people stick to EQ2 for example is exactly crafting, auction house, collections, housing, the AA system and all the quest content that is available in the game!
Those number are bogus. Far more than 5-10% of the long-term players raid. I'd say it's closer to 60-70%. Nobody stays in a game simply for crafting, or running around to look for collections. People don't max out their characters to sit around for hours fake tailoring. They max them out to play end game stuff and upgrade their equipment. That is the kind of thing you do when you can't find a group or raid to go on, or you don't have the time. In other words it's fluff that keeps some people interested, but bores other people to tears. People do not stay in EQ2 because of crafting and housing. I enjoyed the housing setup in EQ2, but I never once thought about paying a monthly fee to decorate my house. It is there for something to do on an off night. In EQ2 there are raids going constantly. When people get to the higher levels they spend most of their time running dungeons, missions, and farming loot/gold.
Yes, games like WoW attract a wider range of people so some can do that stuff if they want, while others can avoid it by farming gold. But guess what, not every game has to try to cater to the exact same audience. It amazes me that certain people that like things like crafting don't seem to understand or care that there are as many, or more that don't like it. It's fine if that is something that you absolutely have to have. If that is what is important to you, there are plenty of places to find it. I personally hate crafting. I hate having it forced on me by those that claim that all MMO's have to have it (for some reason). The game is designed to be more action oriented. Crafting is not action.
Your links to negative comments are useless. Anyone can find posts that say what they want to convey. However, most of those comments were still positive. The one even starts out saying "The game is very cool...". No one is claiming the game is perfect. Many still find it fun despite its flaws. There are a lot of games I can't say that about. Clearly, being fun is not enough for you, so by all means, skip it.
One of the reasons could be that an MMO about "super heroes" doesn't work well (at least to me).
Ever since I tried CoH long ago, I saw the limited attraction of such a game.
Everyone is a super hero and all you do is saving people like every other super hero.
Now you can say that a lot of fantasy MMO's is all about being the hero, but the flow of progression in a fantasy based MMO is more natural, more logical in the built up of the character.
A hunter or rogue begin in a very humble state of progress. A (comic) hero based game feels odd from the very start.
If the world only consists of super heroes, you're no longer super at all or so it feels. At the same time "flying" in these games feels unnatural, powers feel tagged on, progression is simply ... odd.
You know how many people RAID in WoW or EQ2? Only about 5 to 10% of the entire game population! So please!
The sole reason why people stick to EQ2 for example is exactly crafting, auction house, collections, housing, the AA system and all the quest content that is available in the game!
Those number are bogus. Far more than 5-10% of the long-term players raid. I'd say it's closer to 60-70%. Nobody stays in a game simply for crafting, or running around to look for collections. People don't max out their characters to sit around for hours fake tailoring. They max them out to play end game stuff and upgrade their equipment. That is the kind of thing you do when you can't find a group or raid to go on, or you don't have the time. In other words it's fluff that keeps some people interested, but bores other people to tears.
His numbers may be bogus for you but 60-70% raiding ? Not a chance. Please do look around and talk with RL friends and you'll see there are a lot of casual players around and a LOT of players that have different playing styles than the raid or die mentality. I play PvP almost all of the time. A PvP title is much more important to me than killing X boss in a Raid 20 times over and I know a lot of guys who think the same. I have exactly 2 maxed out characters and I get the most fun out of PvP or leveling through PvP.
BTW: there is proof of this non raiding : It is enough to browse through the armory of Wow to see that many, many maxed level characters hardly do serious raiding and this was even back in the easy dungeon days of Wotlk.
So browse the armory and you'll be surprised how many people have a very short list of downed Raid bosses. Hell I know 2 guys in RL who still don't have maxed characters while playing on/off for 6 years.
Shallow means something different, depending on the context.
In this case, we are comparing DCUO to other MMORPG's. And yes, in comparison, it is very shallow. That doesn't mean that it's a bad game, though. As mentioned, it compares favorably to single player action console games.
In MMORPG's, depth comes from having a lot of different and involved ways to spend your time.
In DCUO, it's combat and more combat. That's about it.
On the plus side, the combat in DCUO itself is more interesting than most MMORPG's because it requires more skill and understanding.
Unfortunately, superhero games rely heavily on character builds and customization to add replayability. CoH players just reroll and reroll. Similarly, in Champions Online, I spent a ton of time playing with different builds. Right now, I'm not so sure that DCUO offers the same depth.
By the way, Star Wars Galaxies really is incredibly deep. That game was revolutionary at its prime...and it's still revolutionary now. If someone polished and graphically overhauled SWG right now (especially with the pre-CU classless system) and rereleased it, people would be talking about how incredible that game is.
In this case, we are comparing DCUO to other MMORPG's. And yes, in comparison, it is very shallow.
That doesn't mean that it's a bad game, though. As mentioned, it compares favorably to single player action console games.
In MMORPG's, depth comes from having a lot of different and involved ways to spend your time.
In DCUO, it's combat and more combat. That's about it.
This part is said about as good as anyone could say it.
DCUO calls itself a "MMO". By doing that, it is comparing itself to what we consider MMOs. People who are saying "Well, anything can be a MMO" is sugarcoating and dancing around what we all know and consider MMOs as a whole.
Given that, if we compare DCUO to Wow, Champions Online, Eve, CoH/CoV, Darkfall, LOTRO, Rift, WAR, etc etc etc.. typical MMOs.. this game is as shallow as the baby pool at the community center. There's no crafting, there's no Auction house, you can't have housing, no minigames, the chat system stinks, no exploration of worlds (just small cities), there's no side things like fishing and such. The only thing you're doing in DCUO is PvP dueling/arenas for the most part after you breeze through missions, and that PvP has no effect on the gameworld whatsoever as far as who controls things, which is empty PvP. Heroes and Villians fight for costumes in this game, that's it. That's all there is to fight for.. new spandex.
All this talk of Raids, Alerts and Duos are the same EXACT thing: dungeons just done in different ways. Raids are 8 man dungeons, Alerts are 6 man dungeons and Duos are.. well you know.
This isn't a lot of diverse content it's the same thing dressed up in different ways. It's like saying Lex's Nightclub and the Metro Police station are two different places when they aren't. They are exactly the same buildings inside with no variation other than evil guys in one, good guys in the other one.
But when compared to what DCUO fans are saying are "mmos", games like Halo, CTD4, Arkham Asylum, and the like.. DCUO isn't a shallow game at all. By those comparisons its as deep as War and Peace. That is when this game shines vs those types of games as a 'multiplayer' game.
this game sounds like crap. what would be so wrong with designing a sandbox for this setting, where hero's helped npc's build things, and villains try to tear them down. open pvp...bam perfect super here game....
Problem is, the reality of the world is not that simple. Even now, I can gurantee there is some one crying on the PvP server because villains outnumber the heroes like 5 to 1. Constantly there's someone griping that ON A PVP server they are ganked. I think that if SOE adds content, this could be a very nice sandbox (towards mid to end game). I think the SMARTEST move would be something like... themepark quests all the way up to around 20 or so. And then release some awesome denziens in the real world to mess crap up. As heroes earn PvP marks or whatever, streets look cleaner and tidier, as the villains take over they get full of trash and whatnot. I can't imagine the patching would be too difficult on the game that has mechanics for cars and people (npc's just randomly walking around) built in.
This game IS content lite, but really it's not so bad as everyone makes it sound. Heck, just playing through the Scarecrow questline had a ZOMGWTF DID I DO THAT kinda ending that had me actually sit back and go.. whoa!
I don't understand what people think is shallow about this game? There are so many weapon/powerset/movement combos that you can find a ton of variety and the cities seem pretty extensive to me so far.
My guess is because you were weaned on console games and just havent planned enough deep RPG PC games to know any different, its nothing to be ashamed of. If you think lots of "weapons" "armor sets" and button combos to mash equals game depth then cool.
I don't understand what people think is shallow about this game? There are so many weapon/powerset/movement combos that you can find a ton of variety and the cities seem pretty extensive to me so far.
My guess is because you were weaned on console games and just havent planned enough deep RPG PC games to know any different, its nothing to be ashamed of. If you think lots of "weapons" "armor sets" and button combos to mash equals game depth then cool.
And what the diferent between this depth and WoW/EQ2/FF14/AoC ? none? they are basicly the same: fight for gear and fight again for more gear.
what DCUO does better than all of them is the actual combat system
Its a button masher, but its ment to be, it was build for the PS3 so expect it to play like a PS3 game get a game pad and just have fun, if your using a mouse your not going to like it.
Its a button masher, but its ment to be, it was build for the PS3 so expect it to play like a PS3 game get a game pad and just have fun, if your using a mouse your not going to like it.
Which pretty much answers the OP's question short and sweet.
Not bad for its intended audience, but depth is not its mainstay.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Lack of content. I can finish the game in less than 2 months and all there will be left to do is grind for gear. I like the game but sadly not worthy of a 50-60 doall box price, monthly fees and cash shop. I'll wait to see how long it takes them to add content such as an expansion or DLC before I even consider buying it.
Actually hitting level cap of 30 days in 2 days to a week seems easily doable, then it's gear grind. That and pvp is all to do right now. Having said that, I'm still enjoying the game.
Maybe because you can only have a certain number of abilities active at a time... and it's action based combat.
Both of these things I like very much. It get's very aggrovating managing like 30 abilities that's common in other games.
I've also always wanted an action combat MMO just like DCUO. I think I'll be playing this game for awhile
The game kinda reminds me of shadowrun for the genesis which is a good thing because I loved that game. If only they added cyberspace to DCUO, that would be epic.
I have high hopes, SOE have proven that they are the masters of pushing new content....
SoE has also proven to be masters of destroying new content...
It's not crap, but it's just so bland and uninspired as a MMO project.
They had everything any company could ask for to work with starting a MMO. A huge IP with many universes/dimensions and characters to work with. Few actual rules to break regarding lore considering just about anything is possible with superheroes and what they can do. (Superman blew out a sun with his breath for God's sakes!)
Again, no crafting, no auction houses, no player housing as in hideouts for individual players (even though the game takes place in CITIES, lol).. just so much is missing for what they spent.
But it is a fun little shoot'em up game. It's not a MMO by most player's standards, and certainly not worth a steady $15/mo to me for what I expect.
But you should try it out and see if you're one who would be satisfied with this package if you are interested.
It just reminds me a lot of what Cryptic did with STO. They grabbed the IP, threw in some combat, nice character creation, well known voice actors annnndd not much else. I was pretty surprised when I got out of the initial tutorial to find that all there seemed to be was run around and kill x of these and gather y of those.
During my game play I never really felt like a super hero. Sure I could run up buildings and leap across entire blocks, but it never really felt like I was important what so ever to the city. The majority of the "crime" taking place were just npcs in static locations doing static things. Drop down, beat em up, and yea thats it. Sure I can meet iconic characters, work for some and fight others, but to me thats never really impressed me in games whether it be DCU, Lotro, SWG, etc.
I am sure that fans of the DC ip will feel differently, but at least for me this is how I felt.
Originally posted by Xerith It just reminds me a lot of what Cryptic did with STO. They grabbed the IP, threw in some combat, nice character creation, well known voice actors annnndd not much else. I was pretty surprised when I got out of the initial tutorial to find that all there seemed to be was run around and kill x of these and gather y of those. During my game play I never really felt like a super hero. Sure I could run up buildings and leap across entire blocks, but it never really felt like I was important what so ever to the city. The majority of the "crime" taking place were just npcs in static locations doing static things. Drop down, beat em up, and yea thats it. Sure I can meet iconic characters, work for some and fight others, but to me thats never really impressed me in games whether it be DCU, Lotro, SWG, etc. I am sure that fans of the DC ip will feel differently, but at least for me this is how I felt.
Player housing.
How hard would it have been for this company to make one static entrance (like they already have with police stations) where the player goes into some abandoned warehouse and... bingo!
The player has his OWN individual hideout or command center!
Player could customize it any way they want by taking trophies they've won in Arenaball or by defeating various villians in combat missions. I mean, the game is all about costumes anyways so why not have a place to store all your costumes you've won with maybe three dummies in the hideout?
The player could click on them and instantly have them on as opposed to the interface as it is now with 'switch this piece, now switch that piece, now put this weapon, now put that weapon'. One loadout dummy for three sets of costumes. Simple ideas.
These people have no imagination whatsoever when you look at this whole game. Maybe they are good coders idk, thats not my thing) but they sure are lacking in the idea department for content. I think any basic focus group testing with anyone who's ever read a comic could have revealed way more ideas than they got in this game.
I mean, it's such a simple idea with player hideouts/centers, it's makes you wonder why they didn't come up with things like that.
How is this NOT an action game? It plays exactly like Prototype with multiplayer, raids, etcetera. That is an action game, why isn't this an action game? Because it has an MMO prefix? Because the quests have to be turned in afterwards?
Is this scaled down based on what, WoW standards? MMO standards? Your own personal standards? Less of it in comparison to what? Other MMOs? How many character creation options does WoW have? LOTRO? Maybe less options then other superhero MMOs? How many Raids does CO have? How many different PvP arenas? Is it because its missing crafting? The entire idea that there are these hard lines on what a game is or isn't is antiquated. This is a clear hybridization of the action RPG genre in an MMO setting. I don't see how that is even debateable.
How can this not be what it claims to be, if those are what they say they are? If Prototype is an Action Game and it plays extremely similar to DCUO, why is DCUO not an action game? I just don't understand this way of thinking.
DCU is part action game, part mmo, but it doesn't really do either fully. That is what I mean. Yes there is some actiony combat, but it really isn't an action game. Yes there are some mmo features, but again it isn't really an mmo. The result of the game is something that is fun for a short time, but the shallowness of it shines through pretty quickly.
As for the game being scaled down, compare it to whatever you want. The game world is absolutely tiny by almost any comparisons for an mmo. It can be fully travelled in under 6 minutes and exlpored in a matter of a few hours. You yourself have said that a player will consume half of the games content leveling to 30 and it only takes a few days to reach that level. Again talking about the games content in terms of a matter of days to exhaust.
Even the pvp which you often tout as being something special, because it was designed into the game from the ground up. What does it consist of? A few arenas to grind tokens in and then nothing in the open world? People randomly congregate around police HQ's and spawn points to beat on each other and that is the pinnacle of the pvp design? Fun, sure, but very shallow.
Most of the game is like that. Some fun clobbering on heroes and villains, but it just doesn't really go much beyond that.
During my game play I never really felt like a super hero. Sure I could run up buildings and leap across entire blocks, but it never really felt like I was important what so ever to the city. The majority of the "crime" taking place were just npcs in static locations doing static things. Drop down, beat em up, and yea thats it. Sure I can meet iconic characters, work for some and fight others, but to me thats never really impressed me in games whether it be DCU, Lotro, SWG, etc.
This is because these developers mis-used the basic premise of 'Good vs Evil' in the wrong way.
They used it to create an arenaball mashup where the goal is to collect outfits by 'teams'. That's just a football match or a hockey game's basic premise. No story, no real motivation other than the 'drop'.
In real comic form, it's a basic struggle of 'good vs evil' where lives, planets and universes hang in the balance. Read any comic book and this is the epic nature of it.
This whole game should have been from the start a world where the fighting mattered in terms of control.
If the Heroes win most of the Pvp skirmishes and fighting in the 'open world', then the NPCs walking around town should start to turn mostly good. When the Villians start winning, then then anarchy comes and bad NPCs are dominate. Not completely gone, but more dominate. Then the 'losing side' would get more bonuses to help them out in the fight vs each other and the NPCs. This could go on until a Boss pops up in the city for the losing side, that aids the weaker faction and rewards the strong faction with good items and such if they beat the boss. Right in the middle of downtown Metropolis or something.
The boss would stay spawned for maybe a few hours, then the city resets both sides to neutral. Fucking simple reasons for people to care about a game and what's in it.
But all the combat is meaningless, so you don't really feel as though your hero/villian makes any difference to the world.. which he doesn't.
How can a hero live in a city they don't want to clean up from crime and have shiny streets? How can a villian not want to see things in total riots with fires and such?
Problem is, the reality of the world is not that simple. Even now, I can gurantee there is some one crying on the PvP server because villains outnumber the heroes like 5 to 1. Constantly there's someone griping that ON A PVP server they are ganked.
I know... it was terrible... I had to reroll hero because as a villain there were so many more of us that it was pointless playing on a PVP server.
And as for people complaining about being ganked, I'm still relatively low on the hero side, but I've regularly taken on 3-5 players successfully... (success defined by killing 50% of them, rounded up, before either running away, dying, or having them run away)
DCU is part action game, part mmo, but it doesn't really do either fully. That is what I mean. Yes there is some actiony combat, but it really isn't an action game. Yes there are some mmo features, but again it isn't really an mmo. The result of the game is something that is fun for a short time, but the shallowness of it shines through pretty quickly.
As for the game being scaled down, compare it to whatever you want. The game world is absolutely tiny by almost any comparisons for an mmo. It can be fully travelled in under 6 minutes and exlpored in a matter of a few hours. You yourself have said that a player will consume half of the games content leveling to 30 and it only takes a few days to reach that level. Again talking about the games content in terms of a matter of days to exhaust.
Even the pvp which you often tout as being something special, because it was designed into the game from the ground up. What does it consist of? A few arenas to grind tokens in and then nothing in the open world? People randomly congregate around police HQ's and spawn points to beat on each other and that is the pinnacle of the pvp design? Fun, sure, but very shallow.
Most of the game is like that. Some fun clobbering on heroes and villains, but it just doesn't really go much beyond that.
What I'm hearing is that you don't want to admit that this game is, exactly what it is. It plays just like an action game, not that it has "actiony combat" you continue to say - " It has all these things but they are so limited for an MMO" but in truth it has exactly what action games have, just more of it. Does Prototype have races? Yes. Does prototype have area quests and objectives? Yes. Does it have the same combat system save for some different abilities? Absolutely. Was DC also involved with Prototype, YES. The games are almost identical, especially when taking into consideration that Acrobatics is essentially exactly like the movement in prototype.
Yet this is an online game, with plenty of more options on what to do, and other players to do it with. How could you make this game MORE like an action game? How could you make this game MORE like and MMO. Believe it or not, an MMO only requires a large amount of players to be online playing it. DCUO has been capped and had a 200 person queue on the PvP server the second evening it was open, sounds pretty massive and multiplayer to me.
An Action-RPG doesn't mean the game isn't an action game, or isn't an RPG, it means the game is both, not that the game is neither. An MMO Action-RPG doesn't mean the game doesn't do either fully, it means it does both, and thats exactly what they set out to do and achieved that.
As far as the PvP that I speak of, if you were paying attention you would have noticed that yes there are open world PvP missions that you receive quest rewards for AND gain XP, and it gears you for taking out enemies NO MORE THEN 5 levels below you, so it doesn't encourage ganking. Then you have the ring war which again will give you rewards which is entirely an open world PvP based mission.
Then you have arenas and legends PvP, both of which have their own set of challenges and you receive rewards as well. All of that goes towards getting iconic and special gear for both PvE and PvP
Then you have your PvP feats that can be simple like killing a player in movement mode, or tough like killing 10 players without dying in a legends match. Again, these feats go towards your character progression, so you can continue to progress your character AFTER MAX LEVEL through PvP, not just visually and through gear, but with skill points.
It caters to what it does best. The ACTION GAMEPLAY, and you get rewarded for playing the action gameplay, not doing something else that doesn't mesh with the world.
If DCU achieved both of its goals of being an mmo and an action game, then threads like this wouldn't be common place. Threads about the game not being worth a subscription fee would not be commonplace. Continually pointing at the games combat system as its only real grace just reinforces threads like this.
DCU certainly has features of both MMO and Action game, but simply having those doesn't mean it excels at both of those at the same time. Is DCU such a great action game that it is worth $15 a month compared to some other console action games that don't have monthly fees? Is the mmo side so great that it offers as much content as any other $15 a month mmo? See where it falls short?
5 years and $50 million dollars and you get 2 cities that combined are not ever as large as a handful of zones in another game and content that can be consumed in the free trial period at a casual pace.
Comments
You keep saying how fun combat is as if you are trying to convince me or yourself of something. I didn't say the combat wasn't fun, but I think you just did what I said people do.
As for the servers being packed, why would that be a surprise during the games release? Lets see how those numbers are 3-6-12 months out. That is what the question of this thread is hinting at anyhow.
Speaking of misconceptions, DCU is not an "action" game. It has console style action combat wrapped around a few elements of trimmed down mmo features. You will be doing the exact same things as people in a typical mainstream mmo, but just lacking as many options/features as those other players have. Feats, collections, missions and yeah thats it. Same stuff, just less of it.
Not to say you can't enjoy it. Have a blast if you like, but don't try to represent it as something so different from other mmos and that it isn't lacking, shallow, scaled-down or whatever term you fancy.
How is this NOT an action game? It plays exactly like Prototype with multiplayer, raids, etcetera. That is an action game, why isn't this an action game? Because it has an MMO prefix? Because the quests have to be turned in afterwards?
Is this scaled down based on what, WoW standards? MMO standards? Your own personal standards? Less of it in comparison to what? Other MMOs? How many character creation options does WoW have? LOTRO? Maybe less options then other superhero MMOs? How many Raids does CO have? How many different PvP arenas? Is it because its missing crafting? The entire idea that there are these hard lines on what a game is or isn't is antiquated. This is a clear hybridization of the action RPG genre in an MMO setting. I don't see how that is even debateable.
How can this not be what it claims to be, if those are what they say they are? If Prototype is an Action Game and it plays extremely similar to DCUO, why is DCUO not an action game? I just don't understand this way of thinking.
Those number are bogus. Far more than 5-10% of the long-term players raid. I'd say it's closer to 60-70%. Nobody stays in a game simply for crafting, or running around to look for collections. People don't max out their characters to sit around for hours fake tailoring. They max them out to play end game stuff and upgrade their equipment. That is the kind of thing you do when you can't find a group or raid to go on, or you don't have the time. In other words it's fluff that keeps some people interested, but bores other people to tears. People do not stay in EQ2 because of crafting and housing. I enjoyed the housing setup in EQ2, but I never once thought about paying a monthly fee to decorate my house. It is there for something to do on an off night. In EQ2 there are raids going constantly. When people get to the higher levels they spend most of their time running dungeons, missions, and farming loot/gold.
Yes, games like WoW attract a wider range of people so some can do that stuff if they want, while others can avoid it by farming gold. But guess what, not every game has to try to cater to the exact same audience. It amazes me that certain people that like things like crafting don't seem to understand or care that there are as many, or more that don't like it. It's fine if that is something that you absolutely have to have. If that is what is important to you, there are plenty of places to find it. I personally hate crafting. I hate having it forced on me by those that claim that all MMO's have to have it (for some reason). The game is designed to be more action oriented. Crafting is not action.
Your links to negative comments are useless. Anyone can find posts that say what they want to convey. However, most of those comments were still positive. The one even starts out saying "The game is very cool...". No one is claiming the game is perfect. Many still find it fun despite its flaws. There are a lot of games I can't say that about. Clearly, being fun is not enough for you, so by all means, skip it.
One of the reasons could be that an MMO about "super heroes" doesn't work well (at least to me).
Ever since I tried CoH long ago, I saw the limited attraction of such a game.
Everyone is a super hero and all you do is saving people like every other super hero.
Now you can say that a lot of fantasy MMO's is all about being the hero, but the flow of progression in a fantasy based MMO is more natural, more logical in the built up of the character.
A hunter or rogue begin in a very humble state of progress. A (comic) hero based game feels odd from the very start.
If the world only consists of super heroes, you're no longer super at all or so it feels. At the same time "flying" in these games feels unnatural, powers feel tagged on, progression is simply ... odd.
His numbers may be bogus for you but 60-70% raiding ? Not a chance. Please do look around and talk with RL friends and you'll see there are a lot of casual players around and a LOT of players that have different playing styles than the raid or die mentality. I play PvP almost all of the time. A PvP title is much more important to me than killing X boss in a Raid 20 times over and I know a lot of guys who think the same. I have exactly 2 maxed out characters and I get the most fun out of PvP or leveling through PvP.
BTW: there is proof of this non raiding : It is enough to browse through the armory of Wow to see that many, many maxed level characters hardly do serious raiding and this was even back in the easy dungeon days of Wotlk.
So browse the armory and you'll be surprised how many people have a very short list of downed Raid bosses. Hell I know 2 guys in RL who still don't have maxed characters while playing on/off for 6 years.
Shallow means something different, depending on the context.
In this case, we are comparing DCUO to other MMORPG's. And yes, in comparison, it is very shallow. That doesn't mean that it's a bad game, though. As mentioned, it compares favorably to single player action console games.
In MMORPG's, depth comes from having a lot of different and involved ways to spend your time.
In DCUO, it's combat and more combat. That's about it.
On the plus side, the combat in DCUO itself is more interesting than most MMORPG's because it requires more skill and understanding.
Unfortunately, superhero games rely heavily on character builds and customization to add replayability. CoH players just reroll and reroll. Similarly, in Champions Online, I spent a ton of time playing with different builds. Right now, I'm not so sure that DCUO offers the same depth.
By the way, Star Wars Galaxies really is incredibly deep. That game was revolutionary at its prime...and it's still revolutionary now. If someone polished and graphically overhauled SWG right now (especially with the pre-CU classless system) and rereleased it, people would be talking about how incredible that game is.
DCUO calls itself a "MMO". By doing that, it is comparing itself to what we consider MMOs. People who are saying "Well, anything can be a MMO" is sugarcoating and dancing around what we all know and consider MMOs as a whole.
Given that, if we compare DCUO to Wow, Champions Online, Eve, CoH/CoV, Darkfall, LOTRO, Rift, WAR, etc etc etc.. typical MMOs.. this game is as shallow as the baby pool at the community center. There's no crafting, there's no Auction house, you can't have housing, no minigames, the chat system stinks, no exploration of worlds (just small cities), there's no side things like fishing and such. The only thing you're doing in DCUO is PvP dueling/arenas for the most part after you breeze through missions, and that PvP has no effect on the gameworld whatsoever as far as who controls things, which is empty PvP. Heroes and Villians fight for costumes in this game, that's it. That's all there is to fight for.. new spandex.
All this talk of Raids, Alerts and Duos are the same EXACT thing: dungeons just done in different ways. Raids are 8 man dungeons, Alerts are 6 man dungeons and Duos are.. well you know.
This isn't a lot of diverse content it's the same thing dressed up in different ways. It's like saying Lex's Nightclub and the Metro Police station are two different places when they aren't. They are exactly the same buildings inside with no variation other than evil guys in one, good guys in the other one.
But when compared to what DCUO fans are saying are "mmos", games like Halo, CTD4, Arkham Asylum, and the like.. DCUO isn't a shallow game at all. By those comparisons its as deep as War and Peace. That is when this game shines vs those types of games as a 'multiplayer' game.
"TO MICHAEL!"
this game sounds like crap. what would be so wrong with designing a sandbox for this setting, where hero's helped npc's build things, and villains try to tear them down. open pvp...bam perfect super here game....
Problem is, the reality of the world is not that simple. Even now, I can gurantee there is some one crying on the PvP server because villains outnumber the heroes like 5 to 1. Constantly there's someone griping that ON A PVP server they are ganked. I think that if SOE adds content, this could be a very nice sandbox (towards mid to end game). I think the SMARTEST move would be something like... themepark quests all the way up to around 20 or so. And then release some awesome denziens in the real world to mess crap up. As heroes earn PvP marks or whatever, streets look cleaner and tidier, as the villains take over they get full of trash and whatnot. I can't imagine the patching would be too difficult on the game that has mechanics for cars and people (npc's just randomly walking around) built in.
This game IS content lite, but really it's not so bad as everyone makes it sound. Heck, just playing through the Scarecrow questline had a ZOMGWTF DID I DO THAT kinda ending that had me actually sit back and go.. whoa!
My guess is because you were weaned on console games and just havent planned enough deep RPG PC games to know any different, its nothing to be ashamed of. If you think lots of "weapons" "armor sets" and button combos to mash equals game depth then cool.
And what the diferent between this depth and WoW/EQ2/FF14/AoC ? none? they are basicly the same: fight for gear and fight again for more gear.
what DCUO does better than all of them is the actual combat system
Its a button masher, but its ment to be, it was build for the PS3 so expect it to play like a PS3 game get a game pad and just have fun, if your using a mouse your not going to like it.
Which pretty much answers the OP's question short and sweet.
Not bad for its intended audience, but depth is not its mainstay.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Actually hitting level cap of 30 days in 2 days to a week seems easily doable, then it's gear grind. That and pvp is all to do right now. Having said that, I'm still enjoying the game.
SoE has also proven to be masters of destroying new content...
They had everything any company could ask for to work with starting a MMO. A huge IP with many universes/dimensions and characters to work with. Few actual rules to break regarding lore considering just about anything is possible with superheroes and what they can do. (Superman blew out a sun with his breath for God's sakes!)
Again, no crafting, no auction houses, no player housing as in hideouts for individual players (even though the game takes place in CITIES, lol).. just so much is missing for what they spent.
But it is a fun little shoot'em up game. It's not a MMO by most player's standards, and certainly not worth a steady $15/mo to me for what I expect.
But you should try it out and see if you're one who would be satisfied with this package if you are interested.
"TO MICHAEL!"
It just reminds me a lot of what Cryptic did with STO. They grabbed the IP, threw in some combat, nice character creation, well known voice actors annnndd not much else. I was pretty surprised when I got out of the initial tutorial to find that all there seemed to be was run around and kill x of these and gather y of those.
During my game play I never really felt like a super hero. Sure I could run up buildings and leap across entire blocks, but it never really felt like I was important what so ever to the city. The majority of the "crime" taking place were just npcs in static locations doing static things. Drop down, beat em up, and yea thats it. Sure I can meet iconic characters, work for some and fight others, but to me thats never really impressed me in games whether it be DCU, Lotro, SWG, etc.
I am sure that fans of the DC ip will feel differently, but at least for me this is how I felt.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
Don't forget in this book he towed the Earth back into orbit....
Player housing.
How hard would it have been for this company to make one static entrance (like they already have with police stations) where the player goes into some abandoned warehouse and... bingo!
The player has his OWN individual hideout or command center!
Player could customize it any way they want by taking trophies they've won in Arenaball or by defeating various villians in combat missions. I mean, the game is all about costumes anyways so why not have a place to store all your costumes you've won with maybe three dummies in the hideout?
The player could click on them and instantly have them on as opposed to the interface as it is now with 'switch this piece, now switch that piece, now put this weapon, now put that weapon'. One loadout dummy for three sets of costumes. Simple ideas.
These people have no imagination whatsoever when you look at this whole game. Maybe they are good coders idk, thats not my thing) but they sure are lacking in the idea department for content. I think any basic focus group testing with anyone who's ever read a comic could have revealed way more ideas than they got in this game.
I mean, it's such a simple idea with player hideouts/centers, it's makes you wonder why they didn't come up with things like that.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Exactly.
There just was no way to fark up comic lore other than to give Superman pink tights in the CGI.
You'd really have to work hard to break any taboos in comics, lol.
"TO MICHAEL!"
DCU is part action game, part mmo, but it doesn't really do either fully. That is what I mean. Yes there is some actiony combat, but it really isn't an action game. Yes there are some mmo features, but again it isn't really an mmo. The result of the game is something that is fun for a short time, but the shallowness of it shines through pretty quickly.
As for the game being scaled down, compare it to whatever you want. The game world is absolutely tiny by almost any comparisons for an mmo. It can be fully travelled in under 6 minutes and exlpored in a matter of a few hours. You yourself have said that a player will consume half of the games content leveling to 30 and it only takes a few days to reach that level. Again talking about the games content in terms of a matter of days to exhaust.
Even the pvp which you often tout as being something special, because it was designed into the game from the ground up. What does it consist of? A few arenas to grind tokens in and then nothing in the open world? People randomly congregate around police HQ's and spawn points to beat on each other and that is the pinnacle of the pvp design? Fun, sure, but very shallow.
Most of the game is like that. Some fun clobbering on heroes and villains, but it just doesn't really go much beyond that.
They used it to create an arenaball mashup where the goal is to collect outfits by 'teams'. That's just a football match or a hockey game's basic premise. No story, no real motivation other than the 'drop'.
In real comic form, it's a basic struggle of 'good vs evil' where lives, planets and universes hang in the balance. Read any comic book and this is the epic nature of it.
This whole game should have been from the start a world where the fighting mattered in terms of control.
If the Heroes win most of the Pvp skirmishes and fighting in the 'open world', then the NPCs walking around town should start to turn mostly good. When the Villians start winning, then then anarchy comes and bad NPCs are dominate. Not completely gone, but more dominate. Then the 'losing side' would get more bonuses to help them out in the fight vs each other and the NPCs. This could go on until a Boss pops up in the city for the losing side, that aids the weaker faction and rewards the strong faction with good items and such if they beat the boss. Right in the middle of downtown Metropolis or something.
The boss would stay spawned for maybe a few hours, then the city resets both sides to neutral. Fucking simple reasons for people to care about a game and what's in it.
But all the combat is meaningless, so you don't really feel as though your hero/villian makes any difference to the world.. which he doesn't.
How can a hero live in a city they don't want to clean up from crime and have shiny streets? How can a villian not want to see things in total riots with fires and such?
"TO MICHAEL!"
I know... it was terrible... I had to reroll hero because as a villain there were so many more of us that it was pointless playing on a PVP server.
And as for people complaining about being ganked, I'm still relatively low on the hero side, but I've regularly taken on 3-5 players successfully... (success defined by killing 50% of them, rounded up, before either running away, dying, or having them run away)
What I'm hearing is that you don't want to admit that this game is, exactly what it is. It plays just like an action game, not that it has "actiony combat" you continue to say - " It has all these things but they are so limited for an MMO" but in truth it has exactly what action games have, just more of it. Does Prototype have races? Yes. Does prototype have area quests and objectives? Yes. Does it have the same combat system save for some different abilities? Absolutely. Was DC also involved with Prototype, YES. The games are almost identical, especially when taking into consideration that Acrobatics is essentially exactly like the movement in prototype.
Yet this is an online game, with plenty of more options on what to do, and other players to do it with. How could you make this game MORE like an action game? How could you make this game MORE like and MMO. Believe it or not, an MMO only requires a large amount of players to be online playing it. DCUO has been capped and had a 200 person queue on the PvP server the second evening it was open, sounds pretty massive and multiplayer to me.
An Action-RPG doesn't mean the game isn't an action game, or isn't an RPG, it means the game is both, not that the game is neither. An MMO Action-RPG doesn't mean the game doesn't do either fully, it means it does both, and thats exactly what they set out to do and achieved that.
As far as the PvP that I speak of, if you were paying attention you would have noticed that yes there are open world PvP missions that you receive quest rewards for AND gain XP, and it gears you for taking out enemies NO MORE THEN 5 levels below you, so it doesn't encourage ganking. Then you have the ring war which again will give you rewards which is entirely an open world PvP based mission.
Then you have arenas and legends PvP, both of which have their own set of challenges and you receive rewards as well. All of that goes towards getting iconic and special gear for both PvE and PvP
Then you have your PvP feats that can be simple like killing a player in movement mode, or tough like killing 10 players without dying in a legends match. Again, these feats go towards your character progression, so you can continue to progress your character AFTER MAX LEVEL through PvP, not just visually and through gear, but with skill points.
It caters to what it does best. The ACTION GAMEPLAY, and you get rewarded for playing the action gameplay, not doing something else that doesn't mesh with the world.
If DCU achieved both of its goals of being an mmo and an action game, then threads like this wouldn't be common place. Threads about the game not being worth a subscription fee would not be commonplace. Continually pointing at the games combat system as its only real grace just reinforces threads like this.
DCU certainly has features of both MMO and Action game, but simply having those doesn't mean it excels at both of those at the same time. Is DCU such a great action game that it is worth $15 a month compared to some other console action games that don't have monthly fees? Is the mmo side so great that it offers as much content as any other $15 a month mmo? See where it falls short?
5 years and $50 million dollars and you get 2 cities that combined are not ever as large as a handful of zones in another game and content that can be consumed in the free trial period at a casual pace.