I've been only half way in the loop as far as console and offline pc games go lately so I can admit there are quite a few games I've missed in these past few years one of them being Mass Effect 1 and 2.
I picked up a copy of ME2 for the PS3 release and after having played it these last few days it reminded me of what Bioware is capable of with a game that many other devs out there are incapable of and that's getting a player fully engrossed in what is going on in the game world. I haven't finished the game yet but just from what I've played I get the sense of being in a well made mmorpg until I remember that none of those other people are players like me.
This game gave me the same feeling I got when I played Baldurs Gate and the IWD games that I believe were inspired by the BG saga. At the end of the day Bioware has more games that feel like mmorpg's than many mmorpg developers do, I mean could you imagine if STO played even half way like ME2 does?
What in the world is it that people see to make them make statements suggesting because this is the first mmorpg they made they can't pull it off??
I think the real question is, what makes you so certain that they can? o_O
Because this is Bioware.
You can say what you want about them but they haven't released a game that hasn't been critically and commercially well received.
There is a difference between a 'good game' and a 'game that fits my taste'. Whether this one will fit your particular taste is up in the air, what we do know is that they make 'good games'.
I'm not a huge fan of FPS but I do know that Half Life 1/2 is a 'good game'.
Yes. but every game they have made in the past has been a SRPG - and an MORPG is technically, artistically and commercially a very different thing.
I think we'd all pretty much agree that Google is the best, richest and most advanced search system on the Internet but that doesn't guarantee everything they do outside their core business will be a success - as the failure of the Google phone showed.
it's not really massively but it is multiplayer online and i think i'm okay to say that it's a pretty good RPG. So MORPG? seems it hit pretty closish there.
Edit: to remove confusion, this makes me confident that they can make a great MMORPG. It does not make me certain. With that said it makes me more confident then it does with some other companies that have made MMOs before. Nothing in my opinion is certain but with the resume and track record they have, i'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for i say that their game will fail. Going with the odds so to speak.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Originally posted by fivoroth Originally posted by AjninrepuS
Originally posted by fivoroth
SWTOR has much more money to spend on this game than all the big failures like War and AoC. Both of these games were released early because of financial constraints. Bioware will make sure that what we are playing is a MMORPG and not simply an MMO without the RPG part.
Originally posted by Alot
Originally posted by thamighty213
Originally posted by Wepsy
This game will be a Hybrid MMO then, Sandbox mixed in with Themepark. Crafting will be nowhere as indepth as SWG, Space combat limited they said ? 17 planets so far may be not as big as SWG but big enough to be classified as a Sandbox game? Maybe WOW with a hint of SWG shaken not stirred and you get SW:TOR. Star Wars & BW fans will love it others will hate it, few looking for something new will welcome a change, those faithful to SWG will attack it. I have a strong feeling (almost a disturbance in the force you could say lol) that this game will not reach 1 million subs, possibly not even be a good game and WOW will continue to be No.1
Heh I have a strong feeling your wrong (almost a You underestimate the power of the darkside) that TOR will easily pull 1m + subs
Don't say that already: "anyone who thinks WAR will have any less than 3+ million subscriptions has taken too much WoW-crack". Don't, just don't go WAR.
You are comparing War to SWTOR. War didn't have nearly as much money to spend. War was made by Mythic. I mean seriously that company is a no one compared to Bioware. Mythic never had such amazing games like BG, NWN, ME, DAO, KOTOR etc.
Uh.. Come to an MMORPG site and say DAOC was nothing... How retarded are you....? DAOC was God and still is to some people. It was popular for how long exactly? Mythic got lucky with one good idea but their game quickly went down the drain. Its PvE was so amazing! Yeah! I don´t know. I played DAoC for 2+ years, WoW for 1+ years, Diablo 2 for many months. I played all Bioware games combined for about 200 hours. But the story in Planescape Torment was good.
This game will be a Hybrid MMO then, Sandbox mixed in with Themepark. Crafting will be nowhere as indepth as SWG, Space combat limited they said ? 17 planets so far may be not as big as SWG but big enough to be classified as a Sandbox game? Maybe WOW with a hint of SWG shaken not stirred and you get SW:TOR.
Star Wars & BW fans will love it others will hate it, few looking for something new will welcome a change, those faithful to SWG will attack it.
I have a strong feeling (almost a disturbance in the force you could say lol) that this game will not reach 1 million subs, possibly not even be a good game and WOW will continue to be No.1
First of all i apologize for playing the teacher but i just cant let this go away
im sorry but it feels like you are unaware of the meaning of a sandbox game. In a sandbox game the game is just a set of rules that enables the players to create their own content.
Sandbox games are for example:
Dark Age of Camelot
Star wars Galaxies
Eve Online
Darkfall
Sandbox says noting about the size of the ingame world. Sandbox is how players play the game.
The game content represents the sand in the "sandbox" and the game gives rules which represent the sandbox toys or tools. The actual result the sandbox experience is created by players playing and shaping the sand by the use of the tools given to them. SW Tor will be NO SANDBOX game at all.
The next Sandbox game will be World of Darkness by CCP and will not be released before late 2012.
I've been only half way in the loop as far as console and offline pc games go lately so I can admit there are quite a few games I've missed in these past few years one of them being Mass Effect 1 and 2.
I picked up a copy of ME2 for the PS3 release and after having played it these last few days it reminded me of what Bioware is capable of with a game that many other devs out there are incapable of and that's getting a player fully engrossed in what is going on in the game world. I haven't finished the game yet but just from what I've played I get the sense of being in a well made mmorpg until I remember that none of those other people are players like me.
This game gave me the same feeling I got when I played Baldurs Gate and the IWD games that I believe were inspired by the BG saga. At the end of the day Bioware has more games that feel like mmorpg's than many mmorpg developers do, I mean could you imagine if STO played even half way like ME2 does?
What in the world is it that people see to make them make statements suggesting because this is the first mmorpg they made they can't pull it off??
I think the real question is, what makes you so certain that they can? o_O
Because this is Bioware.
You can say what you want about them but they haven't released a game that hasn't been critically and commercially well received.
There is a difference between a 'good game' and a 'game that fits my taste'. Whether this one will fit your particular taste is up in the air, what we do know is that they make 'good games'.
I'm not a huge fan of FPS but I do know that Half Life 1/2 is a 'good game'.
Lol, because this is bioware? That's your reply? Makes me think this game is doomed.
I've been only half way in the loop as far as console and offline pc games go lately so I can admit there are quite a few games I've missed in these past few years one of them being Mass Effect 1 and 2.
I picked up a copy of ME2 for the PS3 release and after having played it these last few days it reminded me of what Bioware is capable of with a game that many other devs out there are incapable of and that's getting a player fully engrossed in what is going on in the game world. I haven't finished the game yet but just from what I've played I get the sense of being in a well made mmorpg until I remember that none of those other people are players like me.
This game gave me the same feeling I got when I played Baldurs Gate and the IWD games that I believe were inspired by the BG saga. At the end of the day Bioware has more games that feel like mmorpg's than many mmorpg developers do, I mean could you imagine if STO played even half way like ME2 does?
What in the world is it that people see to make them make statements suggesting because this is the first mmorpg they made they can't pull it off??
I think the real question is, what makes you so certain that they can? o_O
Because this is Bioware.
You can say what you want about them but they haven't released a game that hasn't been critically and commercially well received.
There is a difference between a 'good game' and a 'game that fits my taste'. Whether this one will fit your particular taste is up in the air, what we do know is that they make 'good games'.
I'm not a huge fan of FPS but I do know that Half Life 1/2 is a 'good game'.
Lol, because this is bioware? That's your reply? Makes me think this game is doomed.
I think thats more to do with showing they have experience at making good games. That and the fact they haven't let their fans down on these games.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Wanting to get back on topic as it's not: what makes people so certain BW can make a good MMO.
Lets hear reasons why they can't, as thats the point of the topic.
Which i think has been derailed quite a bit.
I'll let one of you guys start it off as i've forgotten what the original reasons were.
I think Bioware's history speaks for itself as per my previous post.
If Valve makes an FPS I know it'll be a 'good game'. I don't really care for FPS but I know it'll be a 'good game'.
Same with BioWare, I know if they make an RPG it'll be a 'good game'. It might not suit everyone (i don't think a game can) but it'll be a 'good game'.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Thruth is that the definition of MMORPG differs from one person to another. While many claim SWTOR to be single player game you have no evidence to support your claim as i doubt you have been playing the game more than 30-60 mins. Until the game is released we no nothing of how it actually plays.
Should it turn out to actually be heavily single player minded then there're still lots of people who wants to play the game. Just search these forums for all the threads regarding single player content versus multiplayer content in mmorpgs.
I'm going to play SWTOR. If its not what i wanted I'll just move on.. Makes no sense to be angry and bash the game.
I've been only half way in the loop as far as console and offline pc games go lately so I can admit there are quite a few games I've missed in these past few years one of them being Mass Effect 1 and 2.
I picked up a copy of ME2 for the PS3 release and after having played it these last few days it reminded me of what Bioware is capable of with a game that many other devs out there are incapable of and that's getting a player fully engrossed in what is going on in the game world. I haven't finished the game yet but just from what I've played I get the sense of being in a well made mmorpg until I remember that none of those other people are players like me.
This game gave me the same feeling I got when I played Baldurs Gate and the IWD games that I believe were inspired by the BG saga. At the end of the day Bioware has more games that feel like mmorpg's than many mmorpg developers do, I mean could you imagine if STO played even half way like ME2 does?
What in the world is it that people see to make them make statements suggesting because this is the first mmorpg they made they can't pull it off??
I think the real question is, what makes you so certain that they can? o_O
Because this is Bioware.
You can say what you want about them but they haven't released a game that hasn't been critically and commercially well received.
There is a difference between a 'good game' and a 'game that fits my taste'. Whether this one will fit your particular taste is up in the air, what we do know is that they make 'good games'.
I'm not a huge fan of FPS but I do know that Half Life 1/2 is a 'good game'.
Lol, because this is bioware? That's your reply? Makes me think this game is doomed.
I agree. The religious fervour of some of this game's madder supporters seems to me to prophesise a horrible fall is coming. Let's hope not.
People are excited because their favourite company is making a new game? OOh, noes. What I don't understand is people who just want to bash this game. I hate double standards. I've read so many people saying - 'you can't know that this game is gonna be sweet because you have never played it. However, I do know that it will suck even though I never played it.'
So why are people even bothering to troll a game? If you don't think this game will be for you, please hit the homepage and pick another game. No need to come and troll. Bioware are more successful than any MMO developer (except maybe Blizzard). I mean look at the companies making MMOs. They are not known outside the MMO world. Now there was one company which was well known and it decided to make an MMO. Look how poor Blizzard are now.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Wanting to get back on topic as it's not: what makes people so certain BW can make a good MMO.
Lets hear reasons why they can't, as thats the point of the topic.
Which i think has been derailed quite a bit.
I'll let one of you guys start it off as i've forgotten what the original reasons were.
Well, we have been giving you some credible reasons. Here they are again:
- Because the Bioware of Baldur's Gate and even ME is not the Bioware that is making SWTOR. It's a different team, a different location, different people;
- Because Bioware has a heritage of making good SRPGs, not MMORPGs which are an entirely different type of game;
- Because while Bioware does have a heritage of making good SRPGs, they are SRPGs of a particular type; very closed, very limited, not very customisable games;
- Because some of the technical aspects of those SRPGs were quite poor - the animations, for example, the combat system and the design ethos;
- Because they are owned by EA, one of the greediest and most rapacious forces in the MMO industry
- Because they are partnered with LA which has a horrible tradition of demanding its IP games be made to marketing goals rather than principles of playability;
- Because many of the people in Bioware or working with Bioware, have direct responsibility for the last Star Wars MMO which failed directly because of their dishonesty, incompetence and greed;
- Because after five years of development, key details still have not been released and, when they are, those details are often disappointing in their shallowness; eg. the rail-shooter space aspet or the 'your companions do it' crafting ethos.
- Because there seems to be an incipient 'we know best and you don't' arrogance emerging in Bioware's communications with its potential customer base - Daniel Erickson's dismissal of people who wanted a more complex space game or who wanted truly customisable alien races seems to bepeak this.
- Because one of the key elements that Bioware keeps punching for this game - Voice-Acting - seems 'anti-MMO' and it likely to slow the game beyond desirable levels.
- Because some of their statements regarding the game seem to be directly contradicted by the footage and screenshots Bioware has released and the experience of people who have sampled the game;
- Because Bioware has no experience in core MMO elements - player economies, PVP, guild dynamics.
so what your saying is.... no company that has ever made an MMO the first time, cannot make a successful one? it has to be a company that has been doing MMO's and butchering them the whole time? (mythic, etc) no thanks
blizzard started off by dabbling into MMO. i wonder how successful their first MMO was? hmm.
dont be so quick to judge something. yes EA is involved but so what? they are wanting to make a game that makes money. to do that they have to take into account what everyone enjoys. lets hope its something u like also
ZERMINUS i just habe to applaud you for this nice a decent sumup of this thread so far. Now i would like to hear a sum up of the people who are conviced that ToR will be huge success ....
I've been only half way in the loop as far as console and offline pc games go lately so I can admit there are quite a few games I've missed in these past few years one of them being Mass Effect 1 and 2.
I picked up a copy of ME2 for the PS3 release and after having played it these last few days it reminded me of what Bioware is capable of with a game that many other devs out there are incapable of and that's getting a player fully engrossed in what is going on in the game world. I haven't finished the game yet but just from what I've played I get the sense of being in a well made mmorpg until I remember that none of those other people are players like me.
This game gave me the same feeling I got when I played Baldurs Gate and the IWD games that I believe were inspired by the BG saga. At the end of the day Bioware has more games that feel like mmorpg's than many mmorpg developers do, I mean could you imagine if STO played even half way like ME2 does?
What in the world is it that people see to make them make statements suggesting because this is the first mmorpg they made they can't pull it off??
The answer is in the history of Bioware itself
If you played both Baldurs Gate and NeverWinter Nights you will understand
SWTOR will be more like NWN which means heavily story driven, but Baldurs Gate approach is more suited to a MMORPG.
For me Baldurs Gate together with Morrowind are the best RPG ever made.
I am not that keen on stuff like NWN and Dragon Age which are good RPG but not exceptional.
SWTOR will sell as good as Mass Effect and Dragon Age, but it won't retain too many subscribers
I will buy it too because I like Bioware games but I will treat it as a single player game, I don't intend to subscribe for more than a couple of months.................unless the game feels like a MMORPG which I doubt.
Wanting to get back on topic as it's not: what makes people so certain BW can make a good MMO.
Lets hear reasons why they can't, as thats the point of the topic.
Which i think has been derailed quite a bit.
I'll let one of you guys start it off as i've forgotten what the original reasons were.
Well, we have been giving you some credible reasons. Here they are again:
- Because the Bioware of Baldur's Gate and even ME is not the Bioware that is making SWTOR
Actually one of the guys working on the game was involved in both Baldur's gate 1 and 2, Kotor, DA and ToR
- Because Bioware has a heritage of making good SRPGs, not MMORPGs which are an entirely different type of game
Always a first for everyone, but i can understand the concern, but i have this concern for every game regardless of the developers, ones that made a lot of MMOs haven't really given me confidence they will make a good one either.
- Because while Bioware does have a heritage of making good SRPGs, they are SRPGs of a particulalr type; very closed, very limited, not very customisable games;
Okay this one i will give you some. However the choices in the games do offer some customization, but as you stated SPG are a different beast, most tend to offer you a direct experience as they have one goal in mind, to tell a story or give a particular experience, this one is suppose to offer more of an open experience, but as i've not seen it yet, i can understand the concern here.
- Because some of the technical aspects of those SRPGs were quite poor - the animations, for example, the combat system and the design ethos;
The animations yes, i think they still need to work on this, also more recent footage from them would be nice, as the last one i think we have is 2010 summer, if i'm correct?
- Because they are owned by EA, one of the greediest and most rapacious forces in the MMO industry
Yeah EA does own a lot of games, i think what has me worried where Ea is concerned is the cash shops they like to introduce into their games. Although to be fair most marketing companies are the same way. They are horrible for games, because they don't care about the creative talent, just if it will make money.
- Because they are partnered with LA which has a horrible tradition of demanding its IP games be made to marketing goals rather than principles of playability;
You really can't make a star wars game without LA, seeing as how they hold the rights to it. Necessary evil, will depend on how much influence they have on the game. One point though, LA was involved in Kotor and that did well. So no clue here.
- Because many of the people in Bioware or working with Bioware, have direct responsibility for the last Star Wars MMO which failed directly because of their dishonesty, incompetence and greed;
Most of sony was this way. I won't comment on what effect this will have as i haven't been directly a part of this. I will give you this one though. Valid concern if they have power here.
- Because after five years of development, key details still have not been released and, when they are, those details are often disappointing in their shallowness; eg. the rail-shooter space aspet or the 'your companions do it' crafting ethos.
hmm i haven't seen much shallow except for the space shooter, which i figure is just to break up the game play a bit. As for the companions. How is this any more shallow then other MMOs where you do the crafting? the skills are still based off of your own. The only difference is your companions will be doing the crafting part instead of you. You can if you so desire do the gathering yourself, as for the crafting end, meh only difference is again they are doing the crafting instead of you. The mechanics still work the same way. You still have to assign them the job, you still have to find the rare schematics to make the pieces. Granted you can send your companions off to find a piece you were missing but i think it's just to take out the tedious factor. That last line is the only part that is unclear to me if you need to find the source (main) component yourself or if your companion can do it, or if you need to find it at least once before they can find it for you after that.
- Because there seems to be an incipient 'we know best and you don't' arrogance emerging in Bioware's communications with its potential customer base - Daniel Erickson's dismissal of people who wanted a more complex space game or who wanted truly customisable alien races seems to bepeak this.
Not sure if this will make the game fail. For the community, normal in any game, it's how humans are. As for BW? it's just how they communicate. But if that concerns you then thats cool, i can understand that.
- Because one of the key elements that Bioware keeps punching for this game - Voice-Acting - seems 'anti-MMO' and it likely to slow the game beyond desirable levels.
I can understand the merchant end of voice acting. ME had this problem with i just wanted to get to the point where i could sell. As for everything else. Your going to be in this game a while. MMOs are normally slow, it's their nature, story or VO in this regard is just another time sink. Hopefully one that will be enjoyable. Really depends on the person (s) involved.
- Because some of their statements regarding the game seem to be directly contradicted by the footage and screenshots Bioware has released and the experience of people who have sampled the game;
I don't seem to remember this happening, unless you mean the space combat remark. Well he wasn't wrong. There is space combat. Just not the way the fans thought it would be.
- Because Bioware has no experience in core MMO elements - player economies, PVP, guild dynamics.
This is losing weight a bit i think when companies such as Verant, Origin systems, Blizzard and Arena net have made no MMO prior yet managed to make some of the biggest known MMO in the history of the genre.
They made EQ, UO, WoW, GW in respective order.
... etc
Most of these are valid concerns and i can understand them, but i think it puts it as more of a wait and see approach and cautious then to say the game will fail because of these. But like i stated, valid concerns. Thanks.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
The answer is simple, because everyone has a different definition of a "good" MMORPG. I *know* from what has been publicly released that BioWare is not making a game that I will like. This bothers me because as an old SWG vet and longtime SW fan I was hoping for a "second chance"...but I have simply accepted that and will stay away from SWTOR.
The game may well be a commercial success for BioWare, they are a solid company with a good history and there are lots of reasons to expect they can pull off a good launch. However, even if they do everything perfectly there will be a lot of people who end up disappointed because they were expecting/wanted something that the game is NOT. So, due to that and other factors any little mistake they make is going to be blown out of all proportion...
Wanting to get back on topic as it's not: what makes people so certain BW can make a good MMO.
Lets hear reasons why they can't, as thats the point of the topic.
Which i think has been derailed quite a bit.
I'll let one of you guys start it off as i've forgotten what the original reasons were.
Well, we have been giving you some credible reasons. Here they are again:
- Because the Bioware of Baldur's Gate and even ME is not the Bioware that is making SWTOR
How do you know that?
- Because Bioware has a heritage of making good SRPGs, not MMORPGs which are an entirely different type of game
MMORPGs are RPGs which you can play with other people to put it simply. I think most MMOs fail because the companies making them lack the experience to make a good RPG. RPGs are not only about increasing numbers aka skills/levels. All MMOs feature the leveling part even sandbox games like UO, DaoC, EvE. They are about telling a good story. Something which escapes most MMO developers. You can't just rely on the formula that if people play together it will be fun despite the garbage you throw at them.
- Because while Bioware does have a heritage of making good SRPGs, they are SRPGs of a particulalr type; very closed, very limited, not very customisable games;
A particular type which millions of players like? Bioware has a lot of fans who will play their game and will enjoy this 'very limited', not very customisable game. However, saying that the BG series is limited....I don't know an RPG which gives you more freedom and meaningful choices. NWN was very customisable and was a great online experience.
- Because some of the technical aspects of those SRPGs were quite poor - the animations, for example, the combat system and the design ethos;
What's wrong with their combat systems? Maybe you don't like it but a lot of people love it. I haven't noticed any poor animations really. Some of their games are not top notch in this department but they are far from poor. Can you please give some of examples of poorly designed ethos?
- Because they are owned by EA, one of the greediest and most rapacious forces in the MMO industry
I agree. I don't like EA but thus far I have enjoyed pretty much all of Bioware's games. Don't know what EA were doing at the time.
- Because they are partnered with LA which has a horrible tradition of demanding its IP games be made to marketing goals rather than principles of playability;
Can't comment on this one. I have no experience with LA.
- Because many of the people in Bioware or working with Bioware, have direct responsibility for the last Star Wars MMO which failed directly because of their dishonesty, incompetence and greed;
As far as I know SoE developed SWG not Bioware. So how are Bioware responsible for SoE's failure? I hate SoE and NCSoft with passion. SoE are doing horrible things to their community and have the tendency to abandon most of their MMOs.
- Because after five years of development, key details still have not been released and, when they are, those details are often disappointing in their shallowness; eg. the rail-shooter space aspet or the 'your companions do it' crafting ethos.
This is just speculating. The fact that they are not talking about feature x doesn't mean it sucks or it is not there.
- Because there seems to be an incipient 'we know best and you don't' arrogance emerging in Bioware's communications with its potential customer base - Daniel Erickson's dismissal of people who wanted a more complex space game or who wanted truly customisable alien races seems to bepeak this.
That's why I like them. A lot of people want this game to be rather sandboxy. Bioware has certain beliefs which they are not gonna bend because some players want them to. This is called having a spine. If you are talking about the only humanoid races, I completely agree with them. I can't identify myself with a gorilla or a monkey. This is the reason why I always play humans in MMOs. I simply find the other more extravagant races to be an overkill. So for everyone who says that they want to be lizards, there is someone who wants humanoids only and support Bioware.
- Because one of the key elements that Bioware keeps punching for this game - Voice-Acting - seems 'anti-MMO' and it likely to slow the game beyond desirable levels.
I don't understand how voiceacting is antisocial. Please elaborate.
After playing most modern RPGs, notably ME, I simply can't stand reading quests. It's not nearly as engaging and immersing. However, I do agree it is very expensive and will most likely slow down quest development.
- Because some of their statements regarding the game seem to be directly contradicted by the footage and screenshots Bioware has released and the experience of people who have sampled the game;
I haven't seen anything controversial but I have missed a lot of interviews/footages so I can't really comment.
- Because Bioware has no experience in core MMO elements - player economies, PVP, guild dynamics
You can't dismiss a company simply because this is their first MMO. An MMO is a game at its core. The most important thing is fun. WoW was Blizzard's first MMO. And look at what happened. They managed to pull off the most successful MMO of all time. A lot of MMO developers who had a lot of experience with MMOs and have more than one MMOs have failed to achieve even a fraction of what Blizzard has. This is because Blizzard simply know how to make their games extremely addictive and enjoyable. Look at their track record - SC, WC2, WC3, Diablo, D2. They were all very successful games and Blizzard had a lot of fans.
... etc
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
ZERMINUS i just habe to applaud you for this nice a decent sumup of this thread so far. Now i would like to hear a sum up of the people who are conviced that ToR will be huge success ....
Please state your points.
Really another thread but as it's up the same alley, here you go.
Reasons why i think it will be?
Bioware is great at making role playing games. Single player ones yes but they are considered one of if not the best at it.
They are considered great at storytelling.
Most of their games give you a choice in how you'll tackle an encounter, usually either diplomatic or mercenary (light side/dark side in this case) which allows for varied game play. Usually people play their games multiple times to see all the content. Less straight story telling more branching usually.
Immersive game play, this is usually tied into the story aspect but i figured it deserved it's own line. I rarely run into a game where i actually care about what my character does in the world. Most games your in for the story but for example in FF7, it was a good story but you didn't really have any impact on it. It was go here, talk to this guy, go here, kill this creature. The story was nice but it was more like watching a movie rather then directing one. However in most BW games they give you (even if it's a small amount) the control of the game and how it will play out, allowing you to sometimes either be the savior of the game (as is in most games) or the conquer (which some games do). Games usually offer one or the other, BW games tend to offer choice. Sometimes they will throw things at you that will make you think. I usually play the evil guy/girl in their games but sometimes i'm just like. Thats too mean i don't want to do that. Most games don't actually make me want to hear what the story is. The only other company that managed that was funcom/ Rangar Tornquist's The longest journey
Finally I think it will be a great game because it brings everything that we normally get in MMOs, which we all like (Killing creatures, getting loot, playing with friends, crafting, fighting with other people in PvP, not in chat , seeing a big expansive/different worlds) except along with that we have a (what i hope) is a very good story that will actually make questing interesting.
My personal thought: it's really down to Bw making games i enjoy and i think a lot also enjoyed, that it will have the feel of the games we loved except now we get to play right along side the others who loved those games as well, before we were disconnected when we played these games. They were great mind you but you were alone in the world. In this one we get to share the experiences of these types of games with others who also enjoyed it as well. We even get to affect another person games based on the choices we make.
MMOs in the past were all about connecting to other people. Affect them as they affect us. Some of this i feel has been lost over the years as it's more profitable or easier to play by ourselves (there isn't anything wrong with that of course). I feel with BW allowing us to affect other peoples game via our choices in story that will bring people closer to each other. We shared an experiece where what we did actually changed something in game, we didn't just experience that encounter together, we changed that encounter because of the choice we made. I feel that i'm more in control of what happens to in the game world and i hope others feel the same way
Those are the reasons why i feel the game will be great. I can't say if it will be a huge success, I hope it will be because i think we have let go of the story part too much in favor of the fighting/grind aspect.
Just my personal thoughts of course.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
My personal thought: it's really down to Bw making games i enjoy and i think a lot also enjoyed, that it will have the feel of the games we loved except now we get to play right along side the others who loved those games as well, before we were disconnected when we played these games. They were great mind you but you were alone in the world. In this one we get to share the experiences of these types of games with others who also enjoyed it as well. We even get to affect another person games based on the choices we make.
MMOs in the past were all about connecting to other people. Affect them as they affect us. Some of this i feel has been lost over the years as it's more profitable or easier to play by ourselves (there isn't anything wrong with that of course). I feel with BW allowing us to affect other peoples game via our choices in story that will bring people closer to each other. We shared an experiece where what we did actually changed something in game, we didn't just experience that encounter together, we changed that encounter because of the choice we made. I feel that i'm more in control of what happens to in the game world and i hope others feel the same way
Those are the reasons why i feel the game will be great. I can't say if it will be a huge success, I hope it will be because i think we have let go of the story part too much in favor of the fighting/grind aspect.
Just my personal thoughts of course.
This is so true.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
For those who are already saying TOR will fail, what do you consider a true MMO?
Archeage....
I've played a lot of MMO's and to be honest im tired of the same old crap that developers keep giving us, pretty much all the mmo's out there are just copies of each other. Everything I've seen and read gives me hope that TOR will be a good MMO.... But all of us really need to hold judgement until the final product ships.
I would gladly correct Sioned with more up to date information regarding the game, but sadly, I am unable to silence his fears at this point.
I would be glad if you could too.
on a further notice its "her fears"
The game is being made for the masses. If you have that attitude of games for the masses = bad or stupid, you will turn your nose at this game before you try it. Similar to how so many people call WoW or ME2 or DA2 "for the casual kids". You made up your mind before hand and twist facts to fit your bill.
Well, a game that has been built to be intentionally made to be as easy (as 'stupid') as possible in order to appeal to the widest demographic as possible as a financial design decision does put me off, yes.
My favourite games are the ones that the dev was true to themselves and what they wanted to achieve. The ones made by designers loyal to themselves, not their shareholders. This is where the really good ideas come from, this is where innovation and progressive design is formed. This is where we get 'new', and not over reliance on superficial 'flash' like voice acting tacked on to the top of the same old.
The new BioWare just seems to be all about their paymasters though and that permeates every game design choice they make, and that worries me for this game.
(lets not even talk about crass cash grabs like launch day DLC...)
This game will be huge, no doubt, it will sell scary numbers, but it will be squarley aimed at the mass market and everything that means.
Comments
Everything I've seen about this MMORPG of theirs makes me certain of it.
Yes. but every game they have made in the past has been a SRPG - and an MORPG is technically, artistically and commercially a very different thing.
I think we'd all pretty much agree that Google is the best, richest and most advanced search system on the Internet but that doesn't guarantee everything they do outside their core business will be a success - as the failure of the Google phone showed.
I will agree that MMOs are quite a bit different then SPRG, but heres a little food for thought for you
http://nwn.bioware.com/about/faq6.html
it's not really massively but it is multiplayer online and i think i'm okay to say that it's a pretty good RPG. So MORPG? seems it hit pretty closish there.
Edit: to remove confusion, this makes me confident that they can make a great MMORPG. It does not make me certain. With that said it makes me more confident then it does with some other companies that have made MMOs before. Nothing in my opinion is certain but with the resume and track record they have, i'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for i say that their game will fail. Going with the odds so to speak.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
It was popular for how long exactly? Mythic got lucky with one good idea but their game quickly went down the drain. Its PvE was so amazing! Yeah!
I don´t know. I played DAoC for 2+ years, WoW for 1+ years, Diablo 2 for many months. I played all Bioware games combined for about 200 hours. But the story in Planescape Torment was good.
Lol, because this is bioware? That's your reply? Makes me think this game is doomed.
This is not a game.
I think thats more to do with showing they have experience at making good games. That and the fact they haven't let their fans down on these games.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Wanting to get back on topic as it's not: what makes people so certain BW can make a good MMO.
Lets hear reasons why they can't, as thats the point of the topic.
Which i think has been derailed quite a bit.
I'll let one of you guys start it off as i've forgotten what the original reasons were.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I think Bioware's history speaks for itself as per my previous post.
If Valve makes an FPS I know it'll be a 'good game'. I don't really care for FPS but I know it'll be a 'good game'.
Same with BioWare, I know if they make an RPG it'll be a 'good game'. It might not suit everyone (i don't think a game can) but it'll be a 'good game'.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Thruth is that the definition of MMORPG differs from one person to another. While many claim SWTOR to be single player game you have no evidence to support your claim as i doubt you have been playing the game more than 30-60 mins. Until the game is released we no nothing of how it actually plays.
Should it turn out to actually be heavily single player minded then there're still lots of people who wants to play the game. Just search these forums for all the threads regarding single player content versus multiplayer content in mmorpgs.
I'm going to play SWTOR. If its not what i wanted I'll just move on.. Makes no sense to be angry and bash the game.
People are excited because their favourite company is making a new game? OOh, noes. What I don't understand is people who just want to bash this game. I hate double standards. I've read so many people saying - 'you can't know that this game is gonna be sweet because you have never played it. However, I do know that it will suck even though I never played it.'
So why are people even bothering to troll a game? If you don't think this game will be for you, please hit the homepage and pick another game. No need to come and troll. Bioware are more successful than any MMO developer (except maybe Blizzard). I mean look at the companies making MMOs. They are not known outside the MMO world. Now there was one company which was well known and it decided to make an MMO. Look how poor Blizzard are now.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Well, we have been giving you some credible reasons. Here they are again:
- Because the Bioware of Baldur's Gate and even ME is not the Bioware that is making SWTOR. It's a different team, a different location, different people;
- Because Bioware has a heritage of making good SRPGs, not MMORPGs which are an entirely different type of game;
- Because while Bioware does have a heritage of making good SRPGs, they are SRPGs of a particular type; very closed, very limited, not very customisable games;
- Because some of the technical aspects of those SRPGs were quite poor - the animations, for example, the combat system and the design ethos;
- Because they are owned by EA, one of the greediest and most rapacious forces in the MMO industry
- Because they are partnered with LA which has a horrible tradition of demanding its IP games be made to marketing goals rather than principles of playability;
- Because many of the people in Bioware or working with Bioware, have direct responsibility for the last Star Wars MMO which failed directly because of their dishonesty, incompetence and greed;
- Because after five years of development, key details still have not been released and, when they are, those details are often disappointing in their shallowness; eg. the rail-shooter space aspet or the 'your companions do it' crafting ethos.
- Because there seems to be an incipient 'we know best and you don't' arrogance emerging in Bioware's communications with its potential customer base - Daniel Erickson's dismissal of people who wanted a more complex space game or who wanted truly customisable alien races seems to bepeak this.
- Because one of the key elements that Bioware keeps punching for this game - Voice-Acting - seems 'anti-MMO' and it likely to slow the game beyond desirable levels.
- Because some of their statements regarding the game seem to be directly contradicted by the footage and screenshots Bioware has released and the experience of people who have sampled the game;
- Because Bioware has no experience in core MMO elements - player economies, PVP, guild dynamics.
... etc
so what your saying is.... no company that has ever made an MMO the first time, cannot make a successful one? it has to be a company that has been doing MMO's and butchering them the whole time? (mythic, etc) no thanks
blizzard started off by dabbling into MMO. i wonder how successful their first MMO was? hmm.
dont be so quick to judge something. yes EA is involved but so what? they are wanting to make a game that makes money. to do that they have to take into account what everyone enjoys. lets hope its something u like also
ZERMINUS i just habe to applaud you for this nice a decent sumup of this thread so far. Now i would like to hear a sum up of the people who are conviced that ToR will be huge success ....
Please state your points.
this tropic is useless, every point i saw so far just states on thing:
i love everquest (old gen)!
imo bioware have the chance to take mmo gaming one step ahead, and i hope they will achieve it.
if not, it's about titan in 5 years :P
anyway, bioware are the masters of RP gaming, and if republic is anywhere close to their momentary games, this game will rock.
ps: i didnt see a single valid reason up there, all i see is a user who hates EA and bioware
"because they only did single player games so far mimi" wow was blizzards first mmo too, just incase you forgot.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
The answer is in the history of Bioware itself
If you played both Baldurs Gate and NeverWinter Nights you will understand
SWTOR will be more like NWN which means heavily story driven, but Baldurs Gate approach is more suited to a MMORPG.
For me Baldurs Gate together with Morrowind are the best RPG ever made.
I am not that keen on stuff like NWN and Dragon Age which are good RPG but not exceptional.
SWTOR will sell as good as Mass Effect and Dragon Age, but it won't retain too many subscribers
I will buy it too because I like Bioware games but I will treat it as a single player game, I don't intend to subscribe for more than a couple of months.................unless the game feels like a MMORPG which I doubt.
Most of these are valid concerns and i can understand them, but i think it puts it as more of a wait and see approach and cautious then to say the game will fail because of these. But like i stated, valid concerns. Thanks.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
The answer is simple, because everyone has a different definition of a "good" MMORPG. I *know* from what has been publicly released that BioWare is not making a game that I will like. This bothers me because as an old SWG vet and longtime SW fan I was hoping for a "second chance"...but I have simply accepted that and will stay away from SWTOR.
The game may well be a commercial success for BioWare, they are a solid company with a good history and there are lots of reasons to expect they can pull off a good launch. However, even if they do everything perfectly there will be a lot of people who end up disappointed because they were expecting/wanted something that the game is NOT. So, due to that and other factors any little mistake they make is going to be blown out of all proportion...
The point that worries me the most is EA....who ruined my favorite MMO to date when they took over Ultima Online...greedy assholes :P
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Really another thread but as it's up the same alley, here you go.
Reasons why i think it will be?
Bioware is great at making role playing games. Single player ones yes but they are considered one of if not the best at it.
They are considered great at storytelling.
Most of their games give you a choice in how you'll tackle an encounter, usually either diplomatic or mercenary (light side/dark side in this case) which allows for varied game play. Usually people play their games multiple times to see all the content. Less straight story telling more branching usually.
Immersive game play, this is usually tied into the story aspect but i figured it deserved it's own line. I rarely run into a game where i actually care about what my character does in the world. Most games your in for the story but for example in FF7, it was a good story but you didn't really have any impact on it. It was go here, talk to this guy, go here, kill this creature. The story was nice but it was more like watching a movie rather then directing one. However in most BW games they give you (even if it's a small amount) the control of the game and how it will play out, allowing you to sometimes either be the savior of the game (as is in most games) or the conquer (which some games do). Games usually offer one or the other, BW games tend to offer choice. Sometimes they will throw things at you that will make you think. I usually play the evil guy/girl in their games but sometimes i'm just like. Thats too mean i don't want to do that. Most games don't actually make me want to hear what the story is. The only other company that managed that was funcom/ Rangar Tornquist's The longest journey
Finally I think it will be a great game because it brings everything that we normally get in MMOs, which we all like (Killing creatures, getting loot, playing with friends, crafting, fighting with other people in PvP, not in chat
, seeing a big expansive/different worlds) except along with that we have a (what i hope) is a very good story that will actually make questing interesting.
My personal thought: it's really down to Bw making games i enjoy and i think a lot also enjoyed, that it will have the feel of the games we loved except now we get to play right along side the others who loved those games as well, before we were disconnected when we played these games. They were great mind you but you were alone in the world. In this one we get to share the experiences of these types of games with others who also enjoyed it as well. We even get to affect another person games based on the choices we make.
MMOs in the past were all about connecting to other people. Affect them as they affect us. Some of this i feel has been lost over the years as it's more profitable or easier to play by ourselves (there isn't anything wrong with that of course). I feel with BW allowing us to affect other peoples game via our choices in story that will bring people closer to each other. We shared an experiece where what we did actually changed something in game, we didn't just experience that encounter together, we changed that encounter because of the choice we made. I feel that i'm more in control of what happens to in the game world and i hope others feel the same way
Those are the reasons why i feel the game will be great. I can't say if it will be a huge success, I hope it will be because i think we have let go of the story part too much in favor of the fighting/grind aspect.
Just my personal thoughts of course.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I've heard mostly good things about Bioware. I would give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
I self identify as a monkey.
This is so true.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Well, a game that has been built to be intentionally made to be as easy (as 'stupid') as possible in order to appeal to the widest demographic as possible as a financial design decision does put me off, yes.
My favourite games are the ones that the dev was true to themselves and what they wanted to achieve. The ones made by designers loyal to themselves, not their shareholders. This is where the really good ideas come from, this is where innovation and progressive design is formed. This is where we get 'new', and not over reliance on superficial 'flash' like voice acting tacked on to the top of the same old.
The new BioWare just seems to be all about their paymasters though and that permeates every game design choice they make, and that worries me for this game.
(lets not even talk about crass cash grabs like launch day DLC...)
This game will be huge, no doubt, it will sell scary numbers, but it will be squarley aimed at the mass market and everything that means.