Now mind ya, I don' think Rift is a totally bad game. It has some very promising ideas. Potential. (Yes, again...) And of course it is in many aspects a matter of taste. But there are certain reasons I just think it will die down after a short time, similar to Aion or Warhammer. IMO the rifts are the crucial point of the game, and it offers way more problems, esp. in the long run.
- You always hear this "point X is under attack, defend it at all costs" "oh no, outpost X was lost". It is exciting the first dozen of times. But at a certain point I just felt like I cared less and less if outpost X was invaded or not. So the much needed feel of urgency just vanishes when you have 20 invasions per day, at some point you begin to lose the feeling that it is something special.
- The Warhammer Castle-Siege issue: WAR castle sieges were fun. Really. For a few weeks. The issue was: one castle siege was in the end like every other. The same is true with the Rifts. Besides the visuals of Life/Fire/Death, they all function the exact same way. There is no variance in strategy whether you fight a life or a fire rift, whether you fight a level 7 or a level 29 rift. It's always the exact same. How long can that be exciting?
- Rifts are extremely disturbing to what you planned. Like questing. Often I just wasn't able to dodge the rift mobs, because Telara is full to the rim with mobs, filling the landscape dense, and with the uber fast respawn, you just can't escape via some safe routes as in EQ2 or WOW or LOTRO. In many areas you are just trapped. I had 6 or 7 Epic high level rift groups passing by and stomping me into the ground several times this day. There were only a handful of other players around, so we had no chance to stop this super invasion or escape from the area to any place. It was just frustrating. They camped the quest zones, there weren't enough players to drive them off (it was mid-20ies mobs), and so I was stuck. I know it may feel cool and dangerous now that it's new. But trust me: over time the frustration will get the upper hand. People want to plan their doings, they love their routine and it can be very frustrating much faster than you guys think.
- All this leads still to the question: won't the entire quest hubs be conquered at some point, when people get apathic agains the constant invasions? It balances towards the number of player you say... I didn't see that in the beta! But even then, what if most people present have no will to fight the invasions? You'd essentially be stuck in that area.
- Let's be honest here: the rest of the game is ok, but not SO thrilling to really justify people leaving their fav. MMO where they invested time and hard work into, whatever it is. I just don't see that. It's an ok game. But not the hyper killer MMO to really keep people. Nothing in this game is anything else but "ok". Neither combat nor gameplay nor visuals are that special. Not bad, but not so great as well.
- I still think that this hectic aspect, feeling like playing Tabula Rasa, will in the long run drive away some players. I know, when you are young you think it is "cool" to have always stuff going on, you don't really know your own limits and have even less understanding that others prefer it slow. I don't blame you young guys to have this flaw, because such is the way of things. But reality is: both younger and older people WILL feel drained after some time. Some sooner, some later. When ALL is rush rush rush - gogogo, when there is nothing calm and serene to balance, a lot of people will feel burned out from the constant pressure, EVEN you who now claim that this is exactly what you seek. Or rather you THINK you seek. It WILL tire you. It has something to do with the natural "biorhythm" every human being has that just needs calm to contrast and balance the stressful moments. No human is above such things, and Rift just doesn't HAVE such "calmer" sides. It is all Yang and entirely devoid of Yin, so to speak.
I am really not trying to bash this game. And I wanted to like it, because it has a lot of likeable qualities. But some of the fundamental design ideas are IMO great mistakes, and the rifts may in the long run very well prove to be Rifts undoing.
I completely agree.I had the same issue.At start i was having fun with all those rift spawning over and over and they looked cool too.But after 1-2 hours of mass rifts i got bored of it.The problem was the invasions wouldn't stop coming because people stoped closing rifts.I guess they got bored too.It was so annoying having constantly invasions at your quest point or quest hubs.
They should rework the rift spawntimes or something.I dont know, but if it stays as it is at release, i can't see many people subbing for a second month of playtime.If they just lower the spawn time people wont get so bored, rifts wont feel so repetitive and invansions wont be so annoying camping every quest hub or quest area.
heres my two cents. Rift takes alot of queues from WoW's successes, like its raiding and dungeon systems, and battleground. Than pairs it with the fun elements of War's public quest type system in the form of invasions and rifts and puts on a graphical skin, that looks far better than wow, and a deal better than war.....I fail to see how ANYONE playing wow previously or currently, and whom admits they like that type of game can honestly complain about rifts and not think themselves a hypocrit for doing so....
"Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said…’I’m too drunk to taste this chicken." - Ricky Bobby
I just really don't see Rift being all that successful either. It does nothing particularly noteworthy (Rift grinding will get old), and it's going to be released way to close to three upcoming MMORPGs that will absolutely destroy it in terms of box sales and subscriber numbers.
You are aware that people play repetitive online games like FpS and co-RPGs that offer nothing but the same few scenarios and maps for years. So why can't that happen with rift? We have damn near unlimited freedom with our character specs (that we change on the fly), multiple rift types to take down, invasions and footholds that all vary in difficulty. I know most of the haters here don't have an original thought in their heads but I'm sure the one guy you all copied off of got to a decent level to truly see how awesome the game is. From the amazingly crafted Dungeons to the pvp to the extremely large game world. Problem is we can't seem to get any of you guys to play passed the mid-teens to experience anything...So we're stuck watching as you people spread lie after lie... It's sad tbh.
Look, I don't care about what other people are saying. What "lies" have I been spreading? I've only given my opinion, and that is that outside of the Rifts and soul system, the game is relatively sub par. It's a WoW clone, but in terms of actual gameplay, it doesn't do anything "better" than WoW. The quests are mundane, movement is clunky, animations are amateurish, dungeons are no better or worse and neither is the combat.
I'm not even sure if I like Rift's graphics when compared to WoW. At times they are stunning but at other times they look downright awful, and I can't say I get that sensation from playing other games. It really is quite odd. That said, this is Trion's first attempt at not only an MMORPG but any sort of video game, and it honestly shows.
The issue here is that Rift is a solid game, but it isn't "amazing." With SW:TOR, GW2, and Tera coming out soon, Rift is going to have to be a lot more than simply solid to garner any sort of attention once the big three hit the market, and you'd be hard pressed to deny that. My feeling is that this game will release to substantial box sales, but subscription numbers will wither away with players going back to WoW and playing other newly released titles. Meanwhile, a small portion of dedicated fans who can't take criticism like yourself will continue to play Rift, and I can see this game settling to a subscriber rate numbering anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000. Enjoy living in your bubble.
I just really don't see Rift being all that successful either. It does nothing particularly noteworthy (Rift grinding will get old), and it's going to be released way to close to three upcoming MMORPGs that will absolutely destroy it in terms of box sales and subscriber numbers.
There is always some kind of grind in all games. GW2 dynamic events will not be a grind tho, because they all are different and ArenaNet have made more than 1500 and the world is huge with awesome combat.
Honestly, I think that's a fair assessment. Rift will get moderate attention on release because it hasn't done a whole lot of media hype, but I think that will work for it in the long run. People will be less expectant of it, and be more tolerant of it's overall blandness.
Predictions; around 400000 box sales in the first 3 months, trickling down to a subscription base of around 150,000-200,000 with dwindling numbers as time goes on. Which is not a bad position to be in, really. It's kind of sad that WoW and it's 10 million customers have cocked up everyone's barometer for success.
Remember, the first successful MMO only had 300,000 box sales.
I just really don't see Rift being all that successful either. It does nothing particularly noteworthy (Rift grinding will get old), and it's going to be released way to close to three upcoming MMORPGs that will absolutely destroy it in terms of box sales and subscriber numbers.
You are aware that people play repetitive online games like FpS and co-RPGs that offer nothing but the same few scenarios and maps for years. So why can't that happen with rift? We have damn near unlimited freedom with our character specs (that we change on the fly), multiple rift types to take down, invasions and footholds that all vary in difficulty. I know most of the haters here don't have an original thought in their heads but I'm sure the one guy you all copied off of got to a decent level to truly see how awesome the game is. From the amazingly crafted Dungeons to the pvp to the extremely large game world. Problem is we can't seem to get any of you guys to play passed the mid-teens to experience anything...So we're stuck watching as you people spread lie after lie... It's sad tbh.
Flawed logic.
MMORPG players and FPS players are part of two radically different target audiences. Subscription model vs no subscription, console vs PC audience, player created content and casual gaming vs player vs environment and non casual gaming.
These you need to take into consideration, if you did, all would be made clear. Think back the expectations made by UO and Everquest. These audiences need to care about their game world and it represents a bit of who they are. Not so with fps games either.
Please stop the utter ridiculous rhetoric of "haters are dumb, I r not". Those who have criticism over a PRODUCT are not "haters" but those with viewpoints you just dont like to hear. You need not attack every single person who, at least from your perspective, insults a product you tied your loyalty too. This goes back to the above paragraph.
I played over 30% of the game's entire leveling experience, and he is right on. Games by design HAVE to be fun from the get go. Entertainment =/= boring work.
You bring up amazingly crafted dungeons? Which ones are those because there are none I have seen so far in Rift, and I come from a background in that area of design. How do rift dungeons differ greatly in quality and design from the rest of the generic mess of dungeons seen so far in recent years?
These are not lies the OP states, the lie is coming from those who fanatically defend and attempt to censor every bit of feedback Rift gets when its not as positive as you would like. Why spend time here on MMORPG.com if all you want is supporters? The official forum is just around the corner and while they still have people like the OP and myself, that number has dwindled since nothing is really showing itself to be interesting in these betas.
Why are you so concerned about Rift's public image, even if it is based on a lie which you want to paint on those who see it as a boringly generic title with some design flaws?
Actually all arguments and theories on Rift not working does not matter one bit as long as people like the game. So the one and only question should be: is Rift fun to play? Many beta testers, me as well, think so. MMOs are entertainment, not science.
You have two crowds in rift right now. One crowd is looking for something new, something diffrent, the other crowd is looking for a solid mmo.
Rift is dissapointing one of these crowds, while beating expectation for another crowd.
The crowd looking for a solid, stable mmorpgs are quite happy with rift, it delivers this, and well.
The crowd looking for a next-gen game, with groudbreaking mechanics, aare comming to the realization that RIft is just your standard mmorpg in every aspect, and this dissapoints them, they dont care how well made it is, how polished the content is, or how fun it is, to them its the same old thing and they are bored with it.
If you are bored with wow type mechanics (yes i know its really EQ type mechanics) and are bored with warhammer style public quests, then Rift will bore you.
I just really don't see Rift being all that successful either. It does nothing particularly noteworthy (Rift grinding will get old), and it's going to be released way to close to three upcoming MMORPGs that will absolutely destroy it in terms of box sales and subscriber numbers.
The best thing I found it doing was I really liked how you can easily modify your UI and not have to worry about a bunch of UI addon's. What the game gives you is enough power to move things. The World Map has a lot of functionality to. For a stock interface this was really a good one.
Actually all arguments and theories on Rift not working does not matter one bit as long as people like the game. So the one and only question should be: is Rift fun to play? Many beta testers, me as well, think so. MMOs are entertainment, not science.
You have two crowds in rift right now. One crowd is looking for something new, something diffrent, the other crowd is looking for a solid mmo.
Rift is dissapointing one of these crowds, while beating expectation for another crowd.
The crowd looking for a solid, stable mmorpgs are quite happy with rift, it delivers this, and well.
The crowd looking for a next-gen game, with groudbreaking mechanics, aare comming to the realization that RIft is just your standard mmorpg in every aspect, and this dissapoints them, they dont care how well made it is, how polished the content is, or how fun it is, to them its the same old thing and they are bored with it.
If you are bored with wow type mechanics (yes i know its really EQ type mechanics) and are bored with warhammer style public quests, then Rift will bore you.
You are right on the money. I see the single biggest issue with Rift is that it calls its self a next-gen game and it fails on that claim. In another thread a user summed this up vary well. Stating Rift is not a next-gen game it is simply a culmination of all the current games.
Now mind ya, I don' think Rift is a totally bad game. It has some very promising ideas. Potential. (Yes, again...) And of course it is in many aspects a matter of taste. But there are certain reasons I just think it will die down after a short time, similar to Aion or Warhammer. IMO the rifts are the crucial point of the game, and it offers way more problems, esp. in the long run.
- You always hear this "point X is under attack, defend it at all costs" "oh no, outpost X was lost". It is exciting the first dozen of times. But at a certain point I just felt like I cared less and less if outpost X was invaded or not. So the much needed feel of urgency just vanishes when you have 20 invasions per day, at some point you begin to lose the feeling that it is something special.
- The Warhammer Castle-Siege issue: WAR castle sieges were fun. Really. For a few weeks. The issue was: one castle siege was in the end like every other. The same is true with the Rifts. Besides the visuals of Life/Fire/Death, they all function the exact same way. There is no variance in strategy whether you fight a life or a fire rift, whether you fight a level 7 or a level 29 rift. It's always the exact same. How long can that be exciting?
- Rifts are extremely disturbing to what you planned. Like questing. Often I just wasn't able to dodge the rift mobs, because Telara is full to the rim with mobs, filling the landscape dense, and with the uber fast respawn, you just can't escape via some safe routes as in EQ2 or WOW or LOTRO. In many areas you are just trapped. I had 6 or 7 Epic high level rift groups passing by and stomping me into the ground several times this day. There were only a handful of other players around, so we had no chance to stop this super invasion or escape from the area to any place. It was just frustrating. They camped the quest zones, there weren't enough players to drive them off (it was mid-20ies mobs), and so I was stuck. I know it may feel cool and dangerous now that it's new. But trust me: over time the frustration will get the upper hand. People want to plan their doings, they love their routine and it can be very frustrating much faster than you guys think.
- All this leads still to the question: won't the entire quest hubs be conquered at some point, when people get apathic agains the constant invasions? It balances towards the number of player you say... I didn't see that in the beta! But even then, what if most people present have no will to fight the invasions? You'd essentially be stuck in that area.
- Let's be honest here: the rest of the game is ok, but not SO thrilling to really justify people leaving their fav. MMO where they invested time and hard work into, whatever it is. I just don't see that. It's an ok game. But not the hyper killer MMO to really keep people. Nothing in this game is anything else but "ok". Neither combat nor gameplay nor visuals are that special. Not bad, but not so great as well.
- I still think that this hectic aspect, feeling like playing Tabula Rasa, will in the long run drive away some players. I know, when you are young you think it is "cool" to have always stuff going on, you don't really know your own limits and have even less understanding that others prefer it slow. I don't blame you young guys to have this flaw, because such is the way of things. But reality is: both younger and older people WILL feel drained after some time. Some sooner, some later. When ALL is rush rush rush - gogogo, when there is nothing calm and serene to balance, a lot of people will feel burned out from the constant pressure, EVEN you who now claim that this is exactly what you seek. Or rather you THINK you seek. It WILL tire you. It has something to do with the natural "biorhythm" every human being has that just needs calm to contrast and balance the stressful moments. No human is above such things, and Rift just doesn't HAVE such "calmer" sides. It is all Yang and entirely devoid of Yin, so to speak.
I am really not trying to bash this game. And I wanted to like it, because it has a lot of likeable qualities. But some of the fundamental design ideas are IMO great mistakes, and the rifts may in the long run very well prove to be Rifts undoing.
As usually I totally agree with you.
I have same impression after 5 beta events.
To make it even worse. Rifts just dissapear if nothing is done. And Invasions the same.
So more often than not , i am like : "Oh not that again !" and just try to go on with questing.
Or I join only when i notice large raid group forming ( Open groups they added really help) so I would get some free XP
But some people prefer not to reply to what I say and attack me instead. The SAME people who then write in other threads, why is this forum so aggressive and rotten...
Whether you realise it or not you can come across as knowing it all with your writing style.
Originally posted by Elikal
- I still think that this hectic aspect, feeling like playing Tabula Rasa, will in the long run drive away some players. I know, when you are young you think it is "cool" to have always stuff going on, you don't really know your own limits and have even less understanding that others prefer it slow. I don't blame you young guys to have this flaw, because such is the way of things. But reality is: both younger and older people WILL feel drained after some time. Some sooner, some later. When ALL is rush rush rush - gogogo, when there is nothing calm and serene to balance, a lot of people will feel burned out from the constant pressure, EVEN you who now claim that this is exactly what you seek. Or rather you THINK you seek. It WILL tire you. It has something to do with the natural "biorhythm" every human being has that just needs calm to contrast and balance the stressful moments. No human is above such things, and Rift just doesn't HAVE such "calmer" sides. It is all Yang and entirely devoid of Yin, so to speak.
Why do you have to be "young" to like having stuff always going on and why is it "cool"? You say they have "less understanding that others prefer it slow" but you show just as much "less understanding" that others prefer a different speed and actually enjoy it. You need to stop generalising and realise there are a lot of people out there with completely different tastes and likes that may make no sense to you but make plenty to them.
I'm a vet and hence old yet i prefer hectic, fast paced and intense games. Probably cause i used to live that lifestyle but can't atm for various reasons. I am a bit of an adrenaline junkie and always will be. Maybe if i gamed 24/7 i would need boring bits to relax and find serenity but if i want that i can read a book or listen to some music.
I'm not trying to attack you just point out some of my observations (which aren't always right) and i actually agree with some of your points about Rift but i wouldn't write Trion off and i think Rift has a much better chance to succeed than WAR, Aion or AoC.
The game is being released next month. No matter how much testing gets done and no matter the feedback, the game will not change. It's simply too late for any significant game changes.
The most we can expect are a few bug fixes and class balance.
Yes, but the real testing is going on in alpha that runs 24/7 and not in the beta. This beta is a preview event/stress test.
Same with the other beta. It's still too late for any sugnificant changes.
You get stuff from rifts. Stuff you can only get from rifts. We like stuff as mmorpg gamers. So rifts will be points of interest along the way. You might choose to skip them and level up or whatever, just as you might skip a dungeon now and then in favor of easy exp. But you'll be back. Cause you want some rift stuff.
I just really don't see Rift being all that successful either. It does nothing particularly noteworthy (Rift grinding will get old), and it's going to be released way to close to three upcoming MMORPGs that will absolutely destroy it in terms of box sales and subscriber numbers.
Those three mmos aren't even releasing this year. Nothing has been heard regarding a beta for any of them. Rift is actually beating GW2 to market with gameplay innovations (dynamic content, scalable difficulty dungeons, group loot, world bosses). While those other three supposed upcoming releases are sitting on their thumbs Rift is quietly taking over the market.
The game is being released next month. No matter how much testing gets done and no matter the feedback, the game will not change. It's simply too late for any significant game changes.
The most we can expect are a few bug fixes and class balance.
Yes, but the real testing is going on in alpha that runs 24/7 and not in the beta. This beta is a preview event/stress test.
Same with the other beta. It's still too late for any sugnificant changes.
I use to think he same thing...but....
Of course we would have to define signficant changes first...
Significant changes like say, add AA in, from beta 4 to beta 5? Or include an automated way to group vs rifts and invasions?
You can blame the game for a lot of things perhaps, but the responsiveness of their developers is not one of them.
Now mind ya, I don' think Rift is a totally bad game. It has some very promising ideas. Potential. (Yes, again...) And of course it is in many aspects a matter of taste. But there are certain reasons I just think it will die down after a short time, similar to Aion or Warhammer. IMO the rifts are the crucial point of the game, and it offers way more problems, esp. in the long run.
I don't see how you can think Rift has potential. EVE had potential at release. Perpetuum had potential, Darkfall, maybe AoC. Vanguard also had potential. Games with potential might be good in the future, once they polish the rough edges and build upon a strong and original premise.
Rift has no original premise, it is already polished, and in principle it has the same gameplay as a lot of other games. Bits from WoW, bits from EQ, bits from WAR, bits from Tabula Rasa, all mixed up together. Nothing will surprise you, and you know what can you expect from it after just a few hours. In other words, there's very little potential that you might like the game in the future, if you don't like it now.
So potential only applies to those games that are full of bugs? Or it applies to games that don't need to solve funtamental problems and can concentrate on content updates instead?
Those three mmos aren't even releasing this year. Nothing has been heard regarding a beta for any of them. Rift is actually beating GW2 to market with gameplay innovations (dynamic content, scalable difficulty dungeons, group loot, world bosses). While those other three supposed upcoming releases are sitting on their thumbs Rift is quietly taking over the market.
You really don't know that, for all we know might they all release in late april or whatever.
GW2 have a lot more to the board then Rift, even though it is anybodys guess which of them that will be most them in the long run. But I have a feeling that Rift will compete more against TOR than GW2.
Besides, there is really no good reason (besides you hating them of course) to not buy both Rift and GW2, since GW2 have no monthly fees it is just like getting a single player game anyways.
Releasing a game too early is a disaster, it is better for both TOR and GW2 if they loose a few players to Rift because of that then if they released a buggy mess, if the word Vanguard means anything to you.
So potential only applies to those games that are full of bugs? Or it applies to games that don't need to solve funtamental problems and can concentrate on content updates instead?
Why don't you read it again. Then, if you will still think that your question needs to be answered, I'd reply with a recommendation to a good reading-practice lecture.
The game is being released next month. No matter how much testing gets done and no matter the feedback, the game will not change. It's simply too late for any significant game changes.
The most we can expect are a few bug fixes and class balance.
True that, it´s more about PR and getting people into the game. But, they have shown, that they are capable to implement a working system in a short time. (like public grouping).
Personaly, i think the game will fit just fine in the existing MMO market, and will be a financial success, keep in mind you don´t need an insane amount of subs to get there.
About the OP opinions:
1. Yes the pop up very often in the starting zones, it depends on the mass of players in the zone. But i do agree with you that they don´t seem a big threat in any way. I would like them to have more impact on the world and maybe a bit more difficult.
2. They do change a bit later on as someone else has allready said. I wouldn´t compare it with WAR however, that game was just full of flaws. However that´s a reasonable point i have thought about too. It might become a bit boring and just another way to obtain gear after some time, but that´s very subjective and depends on the player.
3. Well, that´s bad if falling into your routine is your playstyle. But that "disturbing" you mention is an essential point in the game, and is meant to work like that. Now, the Beta is not a very good example of this, because in the 20+ zones there were not much players around to drive them off, most people were still in the first zone. It remains to be seen how this will work out when the game goes live and more people are around.
Yes the world is full of npc´s, which is not a problem in my eyes, the only thing that bothers me with this however is, that even the low lvl mobs seem to have a "big" aggro range, which just is annoying when the de-mount you. A system like LotrO would be nice, mob is grey - won´t attack.
Also, these elite groups don´t just "stomp by", their way is shown on the map, so you can avoid them if you take a look...
4. It is balanced to the players in the zone. Just take a look at the first zone where most people are, and then go to stonefield or the next zone, far less Rifts. Besides, don´t they colapse after some time anyway? Not sure about that though.
5.That´s your opinion, and i won´t say the game is so much better than others, but why would you leave your fav. mmo anyway? The visuals are very good compared to what is out there, combat..i used to dislike it in the beginning, but only because i was used to more "flashy" animations and such. After one day i was perfectly used to it. And about "movement being clunky" as someone else said...thats crap nothing else.
6. I understand your point and agree with you that people react like this. But i never felt rushed in the game, i took my time and set my own space, i could quest without trouble, i could avoid rifts/invasions by just taking a look at the map, went exploring (and found some nice hidden quests/mini games) and it was all "cool". Don´t let yourself get into the rush by other people who scream around that you have to prevent invasions etc, you can set your own pace just fine.
That was my experince.
Originally posted by bblackwood
As soon as I saw that Rifts were just PQ's from WAR, with a cool visual effect, I immediately quit.
Seen any of the mid-high level PQ's in WAR lately? Hell, even 3 months after release, it was a wasteland.
Its not "dynamic", its the same thing over and over, just on a random point in the map.
You are right, it isn´t really dynamic. But i also want to point out, that PQ´s from warhammer have been done before. And as i said above, Warhammer with all it´s flaws shouild never be an example for anything.
As soon as I saw that Rifts were just PQ's from WAR, with a cool visual effect, I immediately quit.
Seen any of the mid-high level PQ's in WAR lately? Hell, even 3 months after release, it was a wasteland.
Its not "dynamic", its the same thing over and over, just on a random point in the map.
You are right, it isn´t really dynamic. But i also want to point out, that PQ´s from warhammer have been done before. And as i said above, Warhammer with all it´s flaws shouild never be an example for anything.
I don't understand what both of you are looking for.
Comments
I completely agree.I had the same issue.At start i was having fun with all those rift spawning over and over and they looked cool too.But after 1-2 hours of mass rifts i got bored of it.The problem was the invasions wouldn't stop coming because people stoped closing rifts.I guess they got bored too.It was so annoying having constantly invasions at your quest point or quest hubs.
They should rework the rift spawntimes or something.I dont know, but if it stays as it is at release, i can't see many people subbing for a second month of playtime.If they just lower the spawn time people wont get so bored, rifts wont feel so repetitive and invansions wont be so annoying camping every quest hub or quest area.
EDIT: i reached level 21 in the last beta event.
heres my two cents. Rift takes alot of queues from WoW's successes, like its raiding and dungeon systems, and battleground. Than pairs it with the fun elements of War's public quest type system in the form of invasions and rifts and puts on a graphical skin, that looks far better than wow, and a deal better than war.....I fail to see how ANYONE playing wow previously or currently, and whom admits they like that type of game can honestly complain about rifts and not think themselves a hypocrit for doing so....
Look, I don't care about what other people are saying. What "lies" have I been spreading? I've only given my opinion, and that is that outside of the Rifts and soul system, the game is relatively sub par. It's a WoW clone, but in terms of actual gameplay, it doesn't do anything "better" than WoW. The quests are mundane, movement is clunky, animations are amateurish, dungeons are no better or worse and neither is the combat.
I'm not even sure if I like Rift's graphics when compared to WoW. At times they are stunning but at other times they look downright awful, and I can't say I get that sensation from playing other games. It really is quite odd. That said, this is Trion's first attempt at not only an MMORPG but any sort of video game, and it honestly shows.
The issue here is that Rift is a solid game, but it isn't "amazing." With SW:TOR, GW2, and Tera coming out soon, Rift is going to have to be a lot more than simply solid to garner any sort of attention once the big three hit the market, and you'd be hard pressed to deny that. My feeling is that this game will release to substantial box sales, but subscription numbers will wither away with players going back to WoW and playing other newly released titles. Meanwhile, a small portion of dedicated fans who can't take criticism like yourself will continue to play Rift, and I can see this game settling to a subscriber rate numbering anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000. Enjoy living in your bubble.
There is always some kind of grind in all games. GW2 dynamic events will not be a grind tho, because they all are different and ArenaNet have made more than 1500 and the world is huge with awesome combat.
Honestly, I think that's a fair assessment. Rift will get moderate attention on release because it hasn't done a whole lot of media hype, but I think that will work for it in the long run. People will be less expectant of it, and be more tolerant of it's overall blandness.
Predictions; around 400000 box sales in the first 3 months, trickling down to a subscription base of around 150,000-200,000 with dwindling numbers as time goes on. Which is not a bad position to be in, really. It's kind of sad that WoW and it's 10 million customers have cocked up everyone's barometer for success.
Remember, the first successful MMO only had 300,000 box sales.
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
Flawed logic.
MMORPG players and FPS players are part of two radically different target audiences. Subscription model vs no subscription, console vs PC audience, player created content and casual gaming vs player vs environment and non casual gaming.
These you need to take into consideration, if you did, all would be made clear. Think back the expectations made by UO and Everquest. These audiences need to care about their game world and it represents a bit of who they are. Not so with fps games either.
Please stop the utter ridiculous rhetoric of "haters are dumb, I r not". Those who have criticism over a PRODUCT are not "haters" but those with viewpoints you just dont like to hear. You need not attack every single person who, at least from your perspective, insults a product you tied your loyalty too. This goes back to the above paragraph.
I played over 30% of the game's entire leveling experience, and he is right on. Games by design HAVE to be fun from the get go. Entertainment =/= boring work.
You bring up amazingly crafted dungeons? Which ones are those because there are none I have seen so far in Rift, and I come from a background in that area of design. How do rift dungeons differ greatly in quality and design from the rest of the generic mess of dungeons seen so far in recent years?
These are not lies the OP states, the lie is coming from those who fanatically defend and attempt to censor every bit of feedback Rift gets when its not as positive as you would like. Why spend time here on MMORPG.com if all you want is supporters? The official forum is just around the corner and while they still have people like the OP and myself, that number has dwindled since nothing is really showing itself to be interesting in these betas.
Why are you so concerned about Rift's public image, even if it is based on a lie which you want to paint on those who see it as a boringly generic title with some design flaws?
You have two crowds in rift right now. One crowd is looking for something new, something diffrent, the other crowd is looking for a solid mmo.
Rift is dissapointing one of these crowds, while beating expectation for another crowd.
The crowd looking for a solid, stable mmorpgs are quite happy with rift, it delivers this, and well.
The crowd looking for a next-gen game, with groudbreaking mechanics, aare comming to the realization that RIft is just your standard mmorpg in every aspect, and this dissapoints them, they dont care how well made it is, how polished the content is, or how fun it is, to them its the same old thing and they are bored with it.
If you are bored with wow type mechanics (yes i know its really EQ type mechanics) and are bored with warhammer style public quests, then Rift will bore you.
The best thing I found it doing was I really liked how you can easily modify your UI and not have to worry about a bunch of UI addon's. What the game gives you is enough power to move things. The World Map has a lot of functionality to. For a stock interface this was really a good one.
You are right on the money. I see the single biggest issue with Rift is that it calls its self a next-gen game and it fails on that claim. In another thread a user summed this up vary well. Stating Rift is not a next-gen game it is simply a culmination of all the current games.
As usually I totally agree with you.
I have same impression after 5 beta events.
To make it even worse. Rifts just dissapear if nothing is done. And Invasions the same.
So more often than not , i am like : "Oh not that again !" and just try to go on with questing.
Or I join only when i notice large raid group forming ( Open groups they added really help) so I would get some free XP
The game is good, it keeps you bound to it and grows as you grow in level.
Whether you realise it or not you can come across as knowing it all with your writing style.
Why do you have to be "young" to like having stuff always going on and why is it "cool"? You say they have "less understanding that others prefer it slow" but you show just as much "less understanding" that others prefer a different speed and actually enjoy it. You need to stop generalising and realise there are a lot of people out there with completely different tastes and likes that may make no sense to you but make plenty to them.
I'm a vet and hence old yet i prefer hectic, fast paced and intense games. Probably cause i used to live that lifestyle but can't atm for various reasons. I am a bit of an adrenaline junkie and always will be. Maybe if i gamed 24/7 i would need boring bits to relax and find serenity but if i want that i can read a book or listen to some music.
I'm not trying to attack you just point out some of my observations (which aren't always right) and i actually agree with some of your points about Rift but i wouldn't write Trion off and i think Rift has a much better chance to succeed than WAR, Aion or AoC.
If you want something more mature and older feeling, go play your hand at the stock market.
This is a game, it is fun, there is always something going on to keep you busy. Are games not supposed to be fun anymore?
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Same with the other beta. It's still too late for any sugnificant changes.
You get stuff from rifts. Stuff you can only get from rifts. We like stuff as mmorpg gamers. So rifts will be points of interest along the way. You might choose to skip them and level up or whatever, just as you might skip a dungeon now and then in favor of easy exp. But you'll be back. Cause you want some rift stuff.
Those three mmos aren't even releasing this year. Nothing has been heard regarding a beta for any of them. Rift is actually beating GW2 to market with gameplay innovations (dynamic content, scalable difficulty dungeons, group loot, world bosses). While those other three supposed upcoming releases are sitting on their thumbs Rift is quietly taking over the market.As soon as I saw that Rifts were just PQ's from WAR, with a cool visual effect, I immediately quit.
Seen any of the mid-high level PQ's in WAR lately? Hell, even 3 months after release, it was a wasteland.
Its not "dynamic", its the same thing over and over, just on a random point in the map.
Significant changes like say, add AA in, from beta 4 to beta 5? Or include an automated way to group vs rifts and invasions?
You can blame the game for a lot of things perhaps, but the responsiveness of their developers is not one of them.
I don't see how you can think Rift has potential. EVE had potential at release. Perpetuum had potential, Darkfall, maybe AoC. Vanguard also had potential. Games with potential might be good in the future, once they polish the rough edges and build upon a strong and original premise.
Rift has no original premise, it is already polished, and in principle it has the same gameplay as a lot of other games. Bits from WoW, bits from EQ, bits from WAR, bits from Tabula Rasa, all mixed up together. Nothing will surprise you, and you know what can you expect from it after just a few hours. In other words, there's very little potential that you might like the game in the future, if you don't like it now.
REALITY CHECK
So potential only applies to those games that are full of bugs? Or it applies to games that don't need to solve funtamental problems and can concentrate on content updates instead?
You really don't know that, for all we know might they all release in late april or whatever.
GW2 have a lot more to the board then Rift, even though it is anybodys guess which of them that will be most them in the long run. But I have a feeling that Rift will compete more against TOR than GW2.
Besides, there is really no good reason (besides you hating them of course) to not buy both Rift and GW2, since GW2 have no monthly fees it is just like getting a single player game anyways.
Releasing a game too early is a disaster, it is better for both TOR and GW2 if they loose a few players to Rift because of that then if they released a buggy mess, if the word Vanguard means anything to you.
Why don't you read it again. Then, if you will still think that your question needs to be answered, I'd reply with a recommendation to a good reading-practice lecture.
REALITY CHECK
True that, it´s more about PR and getting people into the game. But, they have shown, that they are capable to implement a working system in a short time. (like public grouping).
Personaly, i think the game will fit just fine in the existing MMO market, and will be a financial success, keep in mind you don´t need an insane amount of subs to get there.
About the OP opinions:
1. Yes the pop up very often in the starting zones, it depends on the mass of players in the zone. But i do agree with you that they don´t seem a big threat in any way. I would like them to have more impact on the world and maybe a bit more difficult.
2. They do change a bit later on as someone else has allready said. I wouldn´t compare it with WAR however, that game was just full of flaws. However that´s a reasonable point i have thought about too. It might become a bit boring and just another way to obtain gear after some time, but that´s very subjective and depends on the player.
3. Well, that´s bad if falling into your routine is your playstyle. But that "disturbing" you mention is an essential point in the game, and is meant to work like that. Now, the Beta is not a very good example of this, because in the 20+ zones there were not much players around to drive them off, most people were still in the first zone. It remains to be seen how this will work out when the game goes live and more people are around.
Yes the world is full of npc´s, which is not a problem in my eyes, the only thing that bothers me with this however is, that even the low lvl mobs seem to have a "big" aggro range, which just is annoying when the de-mount you. A system like LotrO would be nice, mob is grey - won´t attack.
Also, these elite groups don´t just "stomp by", their way is shown on the map, so you can avoid them if you take a look...
4. It is balanced to the players in the zone. Just take a look at the first zone where most people are, and then go to stonefield or the next zone, far less Rifts. Besides, don´t they colapse after some time anyway? Not sure about that though.
5.That´s your opinion, and i won´t say the game is so much better than others, but why would you leave your fav. mmo anyway? The visuals are very good compared to what is out there, combat..i used to dislike it in the beginning, but only because i was used to more "flashy" animations and such. After one day i was perfectly used to it. And about "movement being clunky" as someone else said...thats crap nothing else.
6. I understand your point and agree with you that people react like this. But i never felt rushed in the game, i took my time and set my own space, i could quest without trouble, i could avoid rifts/invasions by just taking a look at the map, went exploring (and found some nice hidden quests/mini games) and it was all "cool". Don´t let yourself get into the rush by other people who scream around that you have to prevent invasions etc, you can set your own pace just fine.
That was my experince.
You are right, it isn´t really dynamic. But i also want to point out, that PQ´s from warhammer have been done before. And as i said above, Warhammer with all it´s flaws shouild never be an example for anything.
"i'm a leaf on the wind watch how i soar"
I don't understand what both of you are looking for.