Home › Game Forums › Rift
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
RIFT; the result of unoriginal/non creative game developers -- a review from a beta tester
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
a review from a beta tester
And that, kids, makes your statement almost untouchable or as the autor would say: ""Tangible/irrefutable/undeniable FACTS:""! There is no need to test end game content of a MMORPG, as long as you are a beta tester! remember this and apply as often as you can in other forums.
Honestly Rabenwold you think you are so smart but your grasp of game design principles is severely lacking.
I do not hold contempt for your opinion that you do not like Rift and think that it is a sub-par game.
I hold contempt with the way you present your "facts" as if they are such when the thin veil covering your bias is transparent.
An effective argument it is not.
Everything in a game must be programmed. The only thing truly dynamic in ANY video game are the players, as they have the freedom to not be following pre-coded scripts and conditions. Everything pretending to be dynamic is actually just a clever play on both random and pre-defined conditions set forth by programming variables etc. etc.
In that sense, you are correct that NO game will ever be truly dynamic in PvE unless we invent games run by intelligent AI that is capable of human level thought and decision making.
But what Rifts is is something MORE dynamic and evolved in that specific sense then any other MMO yet to be released, on the PvE side of course. PvP and dynamic nature is best exemplified by a game like EvE, but I won't even go into the host of other problems I have with that game.
You seem to believe that unless Rift is both the Alpha and the Omega it is not a GOOD game.
There are plenty of good games that are not perfect in every way shape and form. I know of zero perfect games. Just like there are zero perfect people and zero perfect truths.
Opinions are only relevant and credible if backed up by logic, factual evidence, experience, and wisdom. You sir seem to lack these qualifications to earn the label of having an "informed opinion" and as such, you see everyone hear discrediting you.
Your aggressive style only infuriates opponents, and as such your vitriolic rhetoric and button-pushing catch-phrase use only highlights your inability to stand by your arguments without the support of such childish tactics.
In the end it really doesn't matter what I think or you think, players must make up their minds themselves as to whether or not a game is a good fit for them or not.
Difference is, you seem to be actively trying to persuade posters here on MMORPG.com from enjoying and liking the game Rift: Planes of Telara, and I have to wonder why you have such a hard on for belittling this game and those who would defend it?
I see all these posts going back and forward trying to defend or crap on the game.
Some of these discussions go so far out of bounds I sincerely don't see the point of them anymore in regards to why Rift should be bad or good. Its become a discussion for the sake of .... the discussion.
Yes I know these are discussion boards, but seriously.
The main thing all these posts seem to forget is ... people are actually having fun with this game. Yeah I know it's not up there with your gamebryo sucks arguments, content could be lacking in a few months, it's a clone of "insert whatever game you want here" insanity.
Apparently if you don't have a phd in MMO design or didn't play games since the invention of RPG's in the stoneage, your input is invalid. Having fun in a game is NOT a valid argument to defend a game. Hell, if you're having fun in Rift, you must be a stupid idiot, because you don't see the mythical glaring shortcomings it has.
I'll even go as far as saying that some people did have fun, but couln't get past their anal fixation that everything needs to be perfect, exactly as how they invisioned it to be. Their perfectionism/neurosis got the upperhand and prevents them from experiencing the fun.
I know for a fact that I'll get slammed making the neurosis remark, but be honest. As I mentioned in other threads before ... if you don't like a game, state it once, give your reasons and move on.
Don't get me wrong. If a game has glaring technical issues, please post and discuss and warn people for the potential crap they are buying. But Rift is polished, we can all agree on that. What's left is for each and every person to like or not like the game. The only thing we are convincing each other of, is if ones taste is better than someone else's.
TLDR: Lets start a discussion about bananas ... I hate the fact that they are yellow.
How you can claim you know what I know about game design is beyond me, especially given the posts. I use the word design but hardly go into it in any elaborate manner, so for you to make the claim that my design knowledge is lacking is humorous at best.
So you have a problem with how I type? Fair enough, though I find it silly. Did you know everyone has a bias, its almost impossible not to have one. The question is how much is it effecting your rational thinking, and in turn are you showing signs of what they call the confirmation bias (behavioral sciences). So since you claim you can see my supposed bias, can you tell me what it is? Let me guess... that I dont like Rift and how Trion marketed the game? Hmm well if thats a bias I have, then your not liking how I type and relate information can be called a bias too. Therefore, logically one should conclude that because I wont like rift no matter what they do, you wont like my posts no matter what I say. So you see, we are at a cross roads here, no matter what I type you will hate it, no?
What you are not getting from my post, which I thought was pretty clear, is that Rift is a 1) Generic + under developed game thats full of misleading marketing and lazy design choices and 2) I think generic under developed games that use the choices are generally "crappy".
Is there anything wrong with that? I mean, thats it in its most simplified form. Now I never said no one can actually enjoy a game I think is crappy. IN fact I have never once made that claim. So what I want to know is...how did you logically come to that conclusion. Instead of carrying this portion of the discussion on here, just send me a PM, otherwise we can talk about the actual game itself here and now.
Feel free to layout specifically what parts of the game I have talked about that leads you to this mythical lack of "informed opinion".
Now correct me if I am wrong but the thread is about RIFT being unoriginal and non creative, correct? And since that seems to be my stance as well, which I have explained, you seem to come to the conclusion that I am uniformed, yet not once have you actually tried to hold a dialog with me on the specifics of these elements. I feel as though you would rather play word games and some how pretend to carry on this air of intelligence while implying that I have none.
We need less spin, no?
Great posts Rabenwolf, I've enjoyed reading them. People need to get back to reality. It seems everytime a big new MMO comes out people get crazy with hype. We saw it happen recently with Star Trek; the beta testers were loving that game as well. We saw it with FFIX, Aion, WaR, etc. I'm not saying that there won't be a certain fanbase that just loves Rift, and that's cool, but the hype is ridiculous. Seasoned mmo players realize that an mmo that has made it into it's third year, for example, is always going to be a more solid product than a new game at launch whose details are mostly rumors, no matter who produces it. I hate to see people get burned on so much money as well as leaving their current game only to return to it a month or two later. Anyway, great posts. I like how you are objectively breaking the reality down and not just bashing or hyping. Keep up the good work.
The "take the defensive and appear wounded" attack, well played sir, well played.
Read my blog on this site if you want my opinion.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/heerobya/022011/21457_Out-of-retirement-in-defense-of-a-good-game-Rift
Your main point, that Rift is under-designed and developed and/or lazy is your greatest lie. Arguing against the polish and level of detail and professionalism Trion had displayed and presented in their beta events is lunacy.
You may not like the direction they went, or some of the opinion/subjective based flavorings they have seasoned the stew with, but the stew is made with very high quality ingredients and those ingredients have been prepared masterfully.
Just because you don't like the flavor doesn't mean it's not a good dish.
I hate sea food, all sea food really, but I don't go around to 5-star sea food restaurants and argue with their kitchen staff that their preparation, cooking methods, and ingredient choice is under-developed and lazy.
I simply choose not to eat sea food.
I don't form activist groups and argue ad nauseum with people who enjoy sea food as to why they are wrong and how I actually know better.
In response to the OP's suggestion/comment on a FFA PvP server and also in response to the charge that Trion is "lazy" in developing this game...
FFA PvP is the ULTIMATE quintessential lazy design choice by game designers in the MMO space.
Can't figure out how to create a fun, interesting world? Let players bite at each other like rabid dogs. Quick, cheap, and easy way to make a game "dynamic" and scare off 99% of your player base who realize that choice, that options and customization are the bread and butter that make a successful MMO sandwich.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Rock, you was the guy who said actually 'travelling to dungeons' was amazingly old school right?
Forgive me if I don't take your 'forever to run' statement at all seriously lol.
I guess it would feel like that if you are used to sitting around wating to be TPed to your group in whatever dungeon...
The map does do the the zone justice. It is very small compared to a lot of other MMOs. Small and annoyingly rammed with mobs every 2 steps.
I pretty much agree with the OP on this one; If WoW & WAR got together and had a bastard child then this game would be it. Not to say that Rift is a bad game, it's not. What Trion have done with the game they have for the most part done very well but you can't escape the fact that it's just more of the same. I played up to level 20 to try to give the game a fair go but to be honest I was bored by level 15 and the remaining 5 levels were just going through the motions. Not a game for me I'm afraid as I'm completely burned out on this formula but those that like the theme parks will likely love it.
Fantastic mature post. I hope you find a game that's fun for you. If you like crafting, I found Fallen Earth to be a great sandbox btw
besides the responses already pointing you to eq, non wow alternative, to a lesser extent....
......."get used to it."
Just like keyboards, car ind design, product bar codes, bar reception indicators on your phone... Wow is the generic standard for MMO's.
Totally reinventing the wheel in all aspects will create player confusion and frustration... i.e. GW2 had to add quest "bang indicators" so even the less than average market will be able to find content.
Can someone remind me what WoW brought that was new to the mmorpg scene when it came out? AH, nope...Factions, nope...instances, nope...
What is wrong with taking the best parts of each game on the market and making it one?
answer: NOTHING
WoW clones... really come on. Your post really does not say much.
Mana, Stam combo points is way older than wow. Were talking back to old school D&D now. If a game resembles any game everyone loves to yell "CLONE" WTF really.
Were all here looking for something new to play. Quests, PvP, Raids, ect. So lets take everything good from other games and make it into one. That would pull all kinds of gamers their way.
If it works stick with it.
OP: Rift is pretty unoriginal. So is WoW. That doesn't make them the same, though. It just makes them boring.
Rift certainly isn't a WoW killer. It will probably have a decent player base though. I could see it keeping a million or two subs until TOR and GW2 come out.
It kind of sucks that Trion ruined tthe only really almost interesting thing about rift - having 3 classes. Its just a gimmick though since you don't really get enough points to make any really meaningful class combinations.
Rift and WoW is almost the same to me.
Its like questing, questing, and then maybe grind, then questing questing, all up to max lvl then a little fun with pvp and raids, that dousn't sounds so very amazing to me, and that's why im so crazy after GW2 it is going to change the looking of online gaming
I think it'll be less then 100k, and then start decreasing after TOR comes out. I think sharply after GW2 comes out. We'll see. But I thope they do good.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
its not Rift dev who want the game to be like wow, its fan and player, they listen to fan . they asked them what they want, they did the best they could and when people get inside the game everyones say its a clone. i dont get it, anyway they will bought the game play it and then they will leave Realising the game is totaly not LIKE WOW so player will Return to wow .
why they leave back to wow? because the game is not like wow, its totaly different, its not a clone, its just a game with similar suff,
i hope this game dont fail. and grow better and better
im playing the beta, and i love it
~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~
It isn't a minute, it's 3.5 minutes from bridge to Meridian at normal run speed.
20% of your leveling process isn't saying much, especially since you see that too in other MMORPG's. In AoC you can even do 30-35% of your leveling process on the starter island Tortage, while that is only a small part of the total game. In SWTOR you can do 20% of your leveling process on a starter planet, which covers less than 2% of the total explorable areas in that game. In WoW vanilla you could reach L20 in the 1st 2 regions you encountered.
'Forever' is what I'd call a poetic exaggeration. In concrete, non-subjective terms it'd be more like 5-6 minutes to cross the region from one end to the other. Which would make it more of the size between a Westfall and Elwynn Forest in WoW, although maybe richer in content and design than a Westfall.
See the link in my sig for actual worldsizes of the various MMO's and comparisons between them.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Threads like this make no sense at all. Why do you keep buying mmos? You KNOW they are all going to copy what works right? World of warcraft worked. Why do you keep buying these games? You are not helping them get creative and original by buying the same old crap. I dont get how people expect the industry to change when you want reject anything that really is "new". You like the car you have now, you just wish it came in blue...
The truth about Guild Wars 2
I have to agree with this: I find nothing wrong with spotting and posting criticisms with a game, but it seems as if in MMORPG's suddenly things need to be wildly different, a complaint you won't see like that for other game genres where the similarities are far, far more abundant in game mechanics.
Shooters, a lot have the same similarities and mechanics and the same applies to RPG's or RTS to name a few.
I think it's because in the MMO genre, in contrast to those other gaming genres, a number of MMO gamers are looking for something completely new or different that can trigger and enflame their enthusiasm for MMO gaming again that they've lost.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Let me summarize this post in a few sentences:
I played/looked at WoW and this looks exactly like it, CLONE CLONE CLONE CLONE...ect........
What this post seems to forget is familiarity is what sells, not total innovation...Why fix whats not broken, just build off of what is succesful its a business, take only risks you can afford. Thats what Rift has done, has its own mix on the same old same. When a new burger joint opens up, they don't put the burger inside out, change it to lamb meat, and deep fry it, you want to know why?, because that only sells to some if any, you need the familiar burger building blocks with your own twists and additions.
So all in all, STOP with these OMG CLONE posts, we get it they took some things, so does everyone else. The fact that people say WOW clone is completely ignorant.... Wow takes alot of its stuff from others, Interface: EQ1(mods),EQ2....Achievement System: EQ2/Xbox lol, Combat: Twitch combat that was extremely slow when it released, Talent System: Please...Way before wow,
The only reason people say WoW clone is because it is the largest, it defiantly wasn't the first so stop giving all the credit...
References: Played WoW since release
Games Waiting for: FF14, Tera Online, Blade and Soul, and Rift
I understand. It seems like all the naysayers and MMO haters want to come on the boards and create a shitstorm to convince people not to buy this game, probably in some misguided attempt to herd players into their anticipated games , GW2, TOR, Tera...
It is fine to like a game or be excited about its release, but there is no reason to come on the forums and just flame and flame Rift in order to be sure that people will believe you, so they don't buy a game that is relatively decent and fun.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
You do understand that it's completely possible to dislike this (and any other) game without having a hidden agenda, right?