Why does a grindless game require the fps genre? Break down the overwhelming rationale, please. Yes, I know that's how it currently is, but hey, let's be a little creative!
Why does a grindless game require the fps genre? Break down the overwhelming rationale, please. Yes, I know that's how it currently is, but hey, let's be a little creative!
Also, witty observations make you cool.
Originally posted by Jakigi
Just make a game fun and competitive and it will be successful. Games like Battlefeild, HoN, etc. with large followings... but with all of the mmo aspects that most play for to begin with.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
-NO GRIND, NO LEVELS: Create a character from an enormous selection of skills and armor, favoring certain play styles; unlimited respecs. Familiar customizable attributes: strength, endurance, agility, intelligence, willpower.
There is a problem, no grind and no levels but you specify basic stats. raising such stats require you to grind them up in order to achieve some sense of character advancement.
Like wise, You can choose your armor from the word go theres no capacity to advance there too.
Also, Video reminds me of Unreal tournament or Quake..
i think by "no grind and no levels" he was asking somebody to remind him of this legendary game, whats the name? ah, yes.... Super Mario Bros (nes)
-NO GRIND, NO LEVELS: Create a character from an enormous selection of skills and armor, favoring certain play styles; unlimited respecs. Familiar customizable attributes: strength, endurance, agility, intelligence, willpower.
There is a problem, no grind and no levels but you specify basic stats. raising such stats require you to grind them up in order to achieve some sense of character advancement.
Like wise, You can choose your armor from the word go theres no capacity to advance there too.
Also, Video reminds me of Unreal tournament or Quake..
i think by "no grind and no levels" he was asking somebody to remind him of this legendary game, whats the name? ah, yes.... Super Mario Bros (nes)
As soon as someone comes up with a suggestion as to how character advancement can be done in a way that cannot be ground through, I'm sure the idea will be taken more seriously. As it is, it sounds like an oxymoron.
Having character advancement implies that there are actions to take to advance your character. People obsessed with doing so as quickly as possible will repeat those actions monotonously, which is what is called grinding.
The only alternative character advancement that I can see is one that is based not on action, but on time, such as EVE's advancement system. I like that, but it seems like the same people who complain about grinding (i.e. the ones who choose to grind) are the same ones who complain that EVE rewarding skills over time prevents people from being able to grind skills to catch up. Interesting stuff.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
As soon as someone comes up with a suggestion as to how character advancement can be done in a way that cannot be ground through, I'm sure the idea will be taken more seriously. As it is, it sounds like an oxymoron.
Having character advancement implies that there are actions to take to advance your character. People obsessed with doing so as quickly as possible will repeat those actions monotonously, which is what is called grinding.
The only alternative character advancement that I can see is one that is based not on action, but on time, such as EVE's advancement system. I like that, but it seems like the same people who complain about grinding (i.e. the ones who choose to grind) are the same ones who complain that EVE rewarding skills over time prevents people from being able to grind skills to catch up. Interesting stuff.
That's what I'm saying.... eliminate character advancement. Make everything needed to be competitive available from the start (With the exception of crafting - which isn't needed to be competitive).
From the start you're given 100 attribute points to distribute, then given 100 "points" to spend on skills from the start (Some skills cost more than others, some skills require certain weapons, some require certain attributes).... you're done with your character. As you play matches, you obtain materials to start a crafting trade. Every aspect of your character is changeable, freely.
The fun and replayability will come from playing different play styles.
All the while stats are recorded and viewable to others on how you tend to play, what "archetype" you usually play with, etc.
I'm not sure what you are describing can be constituted as a MMO. I had an idea of scrapping grind like you but replace it a learning curve, which I bet is similar to what you are talking about. You know I have a topic up called, "Describe and Discuss Your Dream MMOG" where you can discuss this sort of thing, after all what you are imagining is your dream MMOG.
I think atm DCUO fits most of your rquirements you can even play with a game pad. There is no perfect game ever if it was then you are a billionaire that funded your own project out of sheer boredom.
You have to take elements maybe up to 4-6 cruicial points of what matters to you as a gamer and then match that criteria up to what seems suitable.
i think planetside is probably the only game that really fits this criteria, where character advancement doesnt not mean gaining an advantage over other players, game that encourage 'eliteness' just pander to ego's, if your going to have a game thats truly based on personal abilities then, Planetside is probably the game (or was before it got hacked) personally im interested in planetside next, if.. and only if.. it has the same scaleable combat that the original planetside does, ie.. it has to be able to support 300-400 players fighting in the same area, in the same battle, no phasing or instancing. My biggest fear is that they'd model it on DCUO, and that just doesnt cut it for a mmofps.
I'm not sure what you are describing can be constituted as a MMO. I had an idea of scrapping grind like you but replace it a learning curve, which I bet is similar to what you are talking about. You know I have a topic up called, "Describe and Discuss Your Dream MMOG" where you can discuss this sort of thing, after all what you are imagining is your dream MMOG.
Nope DCUO has grind and it starts at level 30. The epic grind for marks of triumph so that you can get a full set of PvE armour and even for pvp armour as well.
mabey bloodline champion? 100% skill based arena pvp game. one of the core feutre of mmo's is the often prresistant world where you can meet people, kill, quest or whatever.
That link has most of the information translated into English, since the official English site is totally useless and just shows an (admittedly pretty) trailer.
i don't care about the crafting stuff, and i think Fury had horrible combat.......,
but i want a grind free action virtual world more than anything. one that gives fast paced Quake 2, Duke 3D style frantic action, and/or something like party games like the Fuzion Frenzy series, and delivers those experiences without compromise in a virtual world setting. been waiting 12 years for that.
action and non-RPG MMOs are FINALLY starting to trickle in. unfortunately they still have too many horrible remnants of traditional MMOs & RPGs tacked on still and generally ruining the experience. it'll take at LEAST 2-4 years before we get past the dark ages of MMO designs.
BTW, try Valkyrie Skye if you like scrolling 80s arcade shooter gameplay. with many MMO trappings. its f2p.
______________________________________ Play my entire game FREE if you want
There has to be a mass of people like myself completely over the grind aspect of mmos. It's a clever psychological tactic by developers: creating an addiction to the false sense of accomplishment level-ups and gear grinds provide. But, please, SOMEBODY, develop a good game, let's evolve.
There are a few ideas/games I want to see combined: Fury's action mmo, arena aspect; Darkfall's skill based, classless, oblivion-like pvp; craftting, skill and player customization more complex than anything that's been done so far, the popular medieval/fantasy setting, and Savage 2's quick paced combat and third person w/ reticule.
Stop wasting development time with monotonous quests, environment, mobs and npcs, focus on the fun part.
Highlights:
-NO GRIND, NO LEVELS: Create a character from an enormous selection of skills armor, and weaponry favoring certain play styles; unlimited respecs. Familiar customizable attributes: strength, endurance, agility, intelligence, willpower.
-FFA Elimination, Deathmatch, Team v Team (Varying sizes), Multi-Team, 2v2, 1v1, Etc. arenas, with optional wager system (items, skills, materials, etc.), with crafting material rewards for both wins and losses.
-Truly player-unique (but finite) crafting trees including weaponsmithing, armorsmithing, alchemy, buff-creation, skill-creation etc. (Limiting players to one specialization, which can be changed, resetting progress). Weapon length, effects, durations, etc., all customizable. Crafting meant to give players even more customization, not a significant advantage.
-In depth player and guild stat system, game-supported tournaments and guild hierarchy.
Am I alone, or is anyone else looking for something similar? I would gladly pay month to month for a game like this over these WoW clones.
Guild Wars 2 does not have everything you're looking for, but it might have enough to interest you. It's also Buy to Play with no subscription, so it might be worth checking out since you won't be locked into a subscription for a game that isn't giving you what you want.
The game is committed to eliminating grind. There's 80 levels in PVE, but it's going to cap out at about 90 minutes per level or so. It's really just to gauge progress, not a grind. They've also replaced the traditional quest model entirely. It's too much to get into for this post.
Not much is known about the crafting system, but they've stated they want people to make stuff they can use, not have to grind out 50 pairs of boots to get to the next tier.
There's two types of PVP, W v W v W battlegrounds that last all week against evenly matched servers, and there's also structured PVP where people will be able to do that at max level with all gear and skills unlocked. So in essense, if you want to arena type PVP exclusively, there are no levels. ArenaNet takes balancing PVP very seriously as well.
The combat system is active, with casting while moving, dodging projectiles, and a great many visual cross profession combos so you can work together with others intuitively.
The game only allows you a small number of skills at any one time, but you can swap them out freely outside of combat. There's also over 100 traits you can discover for each profession, so players with the same skills might play completely differently.
For visual customization, there's over 400 dye colors, and every piece of armor has three areas you can dye. There also will be items available in the cash shop to combine the look of one item with the stats of another. You will be able to look EXACTLY like you want to look.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
MMO, doesn't necessarily mean MMORPG. Those of you arguing that you have to have progression, forget that MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online and has nothing to do with progression... that would be the RPG part (which is debateable as well).
English > you.
"In life we are all turds, some sink and some float but in the end we all get flushed."
Comments
Why does a grindless game require the fps genre? Break down the overwhelming rationale, please. Yes, I know that's how it currently is, but hey, let's be a little creative!
Also, witty observations make you cool.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Melkor, you're going to have to spell that one out buddy. I see no point.
i think by "no grind and no levels" he was asking somebody to remind him of this legendary game, whats the name? ah, yes.... Super Mario Bros (nes)
Legend of Zelda also had no grind or levels.
As soon as someone comes up with a suggestion as to how character advancement can be done in a way that cannot be ground through, I'm sure the idea will be taken more seriously. As it is, it sounds like an oxymoron.
Having character advancement implies that there are actions to take to advance your character. People obsessed with doing so as quickly as possible will repeat those actions monotonously, which is what is called grinding.
The only alternative character advancement that I can see is one that is based not on action, but on time, such as EVE's advancement system. I like that, but it seems like the same people who complain about grinding (i.e. the ones who choose to grind) are the same ones who complain that EVE rewarding skills over time prevents people from being able to grind skills to catch up. Interesting stuff.
That's what I'm saying.... eliminate character advancement. Make everything needed to be competitive available from the start (With the exception of crafting - which isn't needed to be competitive).
From the start you're given 100 attribute points to distribute, then given 100 "points" to spend on skills from the start (Some skills cost more than others, some skills require certain weapons, some require certain attributes).... you're done with your character. As you play matches, you obtain materials to start a crafting trade. Every aspect of your character is changeable, freely.
The fun and replayability will come from playing different play styles.
All the while stats are recorded and viewable to others on how you tend to play, what "archetype" you usually play with, etc.
You should check out Tribes online and Firefall. Play Global Agenda while waiting.
Dont think there are any fantasy MMOs like that coming.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
I'm not sure what you are describing can be constituted as a MMO. I had an idea of scrapping grind like you but replace it a learning curve, which I bet is similar to what you are talking about. You know I have a topic up called, "Describe and Discuss Your Dream MMOG" where you can discuss this sort of thing, after all what you are imagining is your dream MMOG.
I think atm DCUO fits most of your rquirements you can even play with a game pad. There is no perfect game ever if it was then you are a billionaire that funded your own project out of sheer boredom.
You have to take elements maybe up to 4-6 cruicial points of what matters to you as a gamer and then match that criteria up to what seems suitable.
i think planetside is probably the only game that really fits this criteria, where character advancement doesnt not mean gaining an advantage over other players, game that encourage 'eliteness' just pander to ego's, if your going to have a game thats truly based on personal abilities then, Planetside is probably the game (or was before it got hacked) personally im interested in planetside next, if.. and only if.. it has the same scaleable combat that the original planetside does, ie.. it has to be able to support 300-400 players fighting in the same area, in the same battle, no phasing or instancing. My biggest fear is that they'd model it on DCUO, and that just doesnt cut it for a mmofps.
DC Universe Online. Try it that might be what you are asking for.
Planetside 2 is coming soon 3 months max I think.
yup, SOE desperately needs more people to buy this game!
seriously.. they do
Both seem fun, don't know if I'd come out of retirement for them though.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
I'll check it out.
Nope DCUO has grind and it starts at level 30. The epic grind for marks of triumph so that you can get a full set of PvE armour and even for pvp armour as well.
This is not a game.
Thanks for the responses guise. I'll keep my eyes on Planetside 2.... but not sure it's what I'm looking for.
Anyone play Savage 2? That quick-paced combat and third-person view w/ reticule would be nice.
http://www.viddler.com/explore/S2Mercenary/videos/6/
mabey bloodline champion? 100% skill based arena pvp game. one of the core feutre of mmo's is the often prresistant world where you can meet people, kill, quest or whatever.
You may be interested in Blade & Soul. Open Beta is coming out in Korea soon.
http://www.bladeandsouldojo.com/
That link has most of the information translated into English, since the official English site is totally useless and just shows an (admittedly pretty) trailer.
http://bladeandsoul.com/global/en
That's the link if you want to see the official site anyway.
to OP. i'm with ya. kinda.
i don't care about the crafting stuff, and i think Fury had horrible combat.......,
but i want a grind free action virtual world more than anything. one that gives fast paced Quake 2, Duke 3D style frantic action, and/or something like party games like the Fuzion Frenzy series, and delivers those experiences without compromise in a virtual world setting. been waiting 12 years for that.
action and non-RPG MMOs are FINALLY starting to trickle in. unfortunately they still have too many horrible remnants of traditional MMOs & RPGs tacked on still and generally ruining the experience. it'll take at LEAST 2-4 years before we get past the dark ages of MMO designs.
BTW, try Valkyrie Skye if you like scrolling 80s arcade shooter gameplay. with many MMO trappings. its f2p.
______________________________________
Play my entire game FREE if you want
http://PlayRealNotes.com
some people don't care about virtual worlds, so YOU might not care
but for others..........you'd choose it for being populated world where YOU CHOOSE where you wanna be in it.
not these matches with 16 players where you all are shuffled off in synchronicity together from one incontiguous "map" to another.
i really don't know why this isn't glaringly obvious to all the people who constantly tell action lovers to "go play an FPS then".
______________________________________
Play my entire game FREE if you want
http://PlayRealNotes.com
Guild Wars 2 does not have everything you're looking for, but it might have enough to interest you. It's also Buy to Play with no subscription, so it might be worth checking out since you won't be locked into a subscription for a game that isn't giving you what you want.
The game is committed to eliminating grind. There's 80 levels in PVE, but it's going to cap out at about 90 minutes per level or so. It's really just to gauge progress, not a grind. They've also replaced the traditional quest model entirely. It's too much to get into for this post.
Not much is known about the crafting system, but they've stated they want people to make stuff they can use, not have to grind out 50 pairs of boots to get to the next tier.
There's two types of PVP, W v W v W battlegrounds that last all week against evenly matched servers, and there's also structured PVP where people will be able to do that at max level with all gear and skills unlocked. So in essense, if you want to arena type PVP exclusively, there are no levels. ArenaNet takes balancing PVP very seriously as well.
The combat system is active, with casting while moving, dodging projectiles, and a great many visual cross profession combos so you can work together with others intuitively.
The game only allows you a small number of skills at any one time, but you can swap them out freely outside of combat. There's also over 100 traits you can discover for each profession, so players with the same skills might play completely differently.
For visual customization, there's over 400 dye colors, and every piece of armor has three areas you can dye. There also will be items available in the cash shop to combine the look of one item with the stats of another. You will be able to look EXACTLY like you want to look.
Here's the GW2 Manifesto http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVrffwTyImA
And here's everything we know about it. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/Everything-We-Know-about-GW2.html
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I agree with Jakigi.
MMO, doesn't necessarily mean MMORPG. Those of you arguing that you have to have progression, forget that MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online and has nothing to do with progression... that would be the RPG part (which is debateable as well).
English > you.
"In life we are all turds, some sink and some float but in the end we all get flushed."