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Do you believe in a God
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Again, Genesis never makes the claim that it was authored by Moses
Linux is free.....if your time costs nothing.
Again, you do not know the scriptures.
Gal. 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Rom 2:28-29
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
How can you post that and say I don't know what I am talking about? Maybe it is my interpretation, but to me, it clearly states "Ok, you're not a jew, but since you beleive in me, I will make you an honorary jew. You get some of the same benefits, but you are still not a jew." I know the scriptures well. I spent much time reading them. It is just another matter of interpretation. People who believe in god want it so much to mean something good. I am not atheist, I am agnostic, I actually look for reasons to beleive in a god. When I read something, I take it for what it is, not for what I want it to be.
If that means in the end that I discover Islam, Hiduism, Buddism, etc fit me, or no religion at all, then fine. But I will know that I examined everything before hand.
Is it open to interpretation or is it not? As soon as a thumper is cornered about some inconsistency or rigidness, they fall back on this so-called interpretability of The Bible. By doing so, The Bible loses all clout whatsoever as a place from which to base any reasonable argument. It ends up being merely anecdotal.
Well, I guess the reason most people are religious in the first place is because of anecdotes, so...
"The Flood is so great that even the gods are frightened"
How can thes gods be real if they were frightened? If you think about it, wouldn't a god be able to control all aspects of everything? In order to create the universe, would He not have the ability to control it all? A God that really exists would not be scared of anything.
Also, the way Moses wrote the book of Genesis is through a first-hand account of One who was there. God told him what to write. Plain and simple.
Now as to the fact of Moses being a liar, yes, he was. In fact, he was a murderer. However, he still is known as the greatest of the prophets, because of God's forgiveness.
Again, Genesis never makes the claim that it was authored by Moses
But that is a widely accepted argument by biblical scholars. And also, to me it does not matter who authored it. Whoever wrote it could have easily read the story of gilgamesh. It is nearly 5000 years old and predates the entire bible, how is that not significant?
Read about mythology. Even the ancient gods feared. Even a mortal could kill a god. Gods could create, but they could also be destroyed. And you seem to have misunderstood the passage that you posted. I'll mention Zeus as an example. In greek mythology Zeus created the universe, however, there were also other gods. There were also demi-gods. Many of these gods feared Zeus because he created these "minor" gods and could destroy them. Once again, the story of gilgamesh was just that, a story.
To make it easily understandable. Imagine you are in college. You find a great essay for a term paper. You plagarise it, but you change it around a bit because you do not want to get caught. Sound remotely possible?
It is already known that the Israelites were easily swayed into believing that the miraculous events caused by God were rather caused by false gods or pagan gods. This could be true for human nature as well. It could be that the Noah Story is actually the true one handed down by word of mouth and only incorporated into Egyptian culture by Hebrew influence as was the story of Beowulf purportedly altered to include God into the story rather than a pagan god who aided Beowulf in fending off the blows of the mother of Grendel. And I think Beowulf was handed down by word of mouth as well until it was finally written down.
This does not mean that Moses was a liar, but could also be used to say that the Egyptians wanted to make the slaves transition or rather the Israelites transition in Egypt a smoother one (since God's people lived in Egypt for a time as a free people and were only then captive in slavery for 600 years - or some other number of years. I'm not sure on the amount again). It's the Egyptians' word against the Hebrews' word. This is certainly an interesting claim and should be considered though.
but fails to see that the jewish people are the ones he died for, that god was protecting and that god was speaking of
I think you might be right in saying that helping the Jews was God's first intention, but the Bible (I forget exactly) hints or states that since the Jews (a good number of them) would not accept Christ, then his message was to be then preached to the gentiles as well. There is also a point in the Bible if my memory serves me correct in which God states that his people are no longer his people for what they've been doing - following the ways of pagan nations etc. etc. Yet later it seems that God accepts them once more.
The bible states that the jews are his people and that they primarily come first.
This is another argument for one not to want to believe in Christianity if they are a gentile, but who's to say that you don't have Jewish roots?
By touching I meant in a harmful way. I was, of course, paraphrasing.
Ok. Just checking.
In a sense, Jefferson plagerized it, but did so to get his point across about liberty and freedom.
Also possibly from the Sioux I think it was? Not sure on that one, but someone borrowed ideas from a number of allied tribes.
Again, Genesis never makes the claim that it was authored by Moses
That was just what my version of the Bible had in it. It still could have been, but don't know for sure.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Look at it this way. If the Bible stated things in black and white, it would be physically impossible for a person to read it all in a life-time. Plus, to translate the Bible into another language, it would take years. God chooses to let Christians decide for themselves on some issues, though they can still be wrong. One must remember that even though the Bible doesn't deal in absolutes, God does. There is a definite right and wrong.
Oh, please. Another example of scare tactics. The lake of fire is explained where satan will be thrown for 1000 years (along with the good ol antichrist and his buddy). It does state that the torment is seperation from god, which, I am seperated now, and it doesn't seem to bother me too much!
Please go back a couple of pages and find my initial post on that subject.
Yes, they feared, but they were not real gods. Thus, they do not pertain to the real God.
Please, tell me how I understood this wrong. II Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."
It sounds remotely possible, but how does one know who plagarises what? Let's say that I wrote an essay in college. You had to do an essay on the same topic, so you look at my paper, change around what I said, and then hand it in. The professor wouldn't know who did it first.
Now, let's think of it this way. There was a universal flood. Everyone except those on the boat that survived it lived. If you survived it, wouldn't you tell your kids about it, who would tell their kids, etc. Now as time passes, the true story gets twisted into something false. Only if it is written down by one who was there (in this case, God) can the trust be discerned.
which, I am seperated now, and it doesn't seem to bother me too much!
I don't believe any human is completely separated from God yet. Anyone who loves another or helps another is following God. If life is found in God, then death is found in his absence. I've also stated that if you give money to the poor or help them out, then you are helping out Christ. Even reading this in context states that those who did not accept him at the last day will ask him when they didn't help him out or give him food or visit him in sickness, etc. That is a generalization, but it implies that those who follow God's principles are following him. Anyone who promotes his creation promotes him, and I'd assume that he'd be interested in their lives whether or not they reject a belief in him. Does a parent put a kid up for adoption when the kid rejects the parent and storms into his room?
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Vodalus, I am curious to your response on my moral relativsm question. I saw your post, but you did not respond to my response. Here it is again:
Most definitely not. Absolute truth exists and absolute morality also exists.
You kind of fell into a trap on this one. First, if you have not done so, read Socrates' teachings and beliefs on morality. That point aside, here is mine.
Morality, whether relative or absolute, can be a double edged sword. It can work both against, and both for you. We will start with moral relativism. If one believes in this aspect of morality, one cannot believe in a religion. Why? Because you would then admittedly state that if one person lives in say India and they are Hinduist, they have multiple wives, and cows are considered sacred animals, then they are correct in their moral and spiritual beliefs.
But, if you state that you beleive in absolute morality and you believe in God, then you are also contradicting your core beliefs. Believing in absolute morality is basically giving away your free thought on what is good and what is bad. It is left up to God to then determine what is moral and what is not. Suppose that God said it was appropriate to sacrifice a baby, cook him, then eat him. That would then be considered right in absolute morality, but to almost everyone else a heinous and despicable crime.
Therefore, in order to accept a religion and a higher being, one must give up their true and free will and free thought. You cannot have both. The bible does state that slavery and servitude are ok, as well as incest and many other things. Do you find those acts
Just curious your take on it.
The bible does state that slavery and servitude are ok, as well as incest and many other things.
Could you reference the verses that say that slavery is alright and that incest is alright too? I remember something about slavery, but I'd like to look these up.
Personally I believe that anything that ultimately works for the best of life is moral. Christ himself said that man was not made for the sabbath but the sabbath for man. Following God's rules blindly is not right I believe since circumstances are given to change. Christ in that statement above implied this. Use reasoning to determine when something is right and when it is wrong. The Ten Commandments are simply a template for determining this.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
I honestly hope you are not implying that god pulled out a big quill and wrote the book himself. That would be just plain silly.
And to respond to your scripture II Timothy 3:16.
What is the proof that the books of the bible were inspired by god? With that question in mind, imagine this scenario.
It is present day and Jack is coming home from a long day at work. He sits on his sofa to watch a bit of television. Before he turns the television on he hears a voice, "Jack, it is God." Jack is just like, "Dude, wtf is going on here. I am hearing voices." So Jack decides to ignore it. Everyday the voice trys to contact Jack, until one day, Jack answers back, "Ok, you're obviously not going to leave me alone until I answer you. What do you want?"
Then God said unto Jack "Write down what I say. I am your inspiration for this scripture." Jack is like "Ok, whatever dude, just as long as you get out of my head when I am done." Well, weeks later Jack finishes and then God commands, "Jack! You have done good! You shall be rewarded! Now, you must deliver this book to all and preach of my testimony!" Jack is really starting to get pissed, but he wants to be free, so jack is like "Whatever dude!"
Then Jack goes forth to all and explains the voice of god and that he was commanded to write this book. Weeks pass as jack sits in his room in the mental institution with his roommate who believes he was abducted by aliens and thinks "Yo god, why have you forsaken me?"
Sound about right?
That's slightly incorrect. Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years, then be cast into the lake of fire after trying to destroy God.
You are not completely separated from God. You still have a chance to go to heaven. If you die without accepting Christ's forgiveness, you will have lost all chance of that. This will give you a pain worse than any physical pain you can possibly imagine.
Do not call this a scare-tactic, please. My grandfather died not that long ago, and he is probably in hell. This is not an easy topic for me to speak of.
BTW, what page is your first post on? So I don't have to search 50 pages.
I have no idea what page it was on. I really don't want to search through that either! My view, I am seperated. I do not, and will not ever believe in the Christian god. Simple as that. I've experienced to much in my life to know (by knowing I mean personal opinion, not public fact) that god is not real. And yes, it is a scare tactic. My mother died less than a year ago and she was a very devoted christian.
I do have an open mind, and I do always keep the view that it is remotely possible for christians to be right. If that's the case, then I never get to see her again. However, if atheists are right, then I won't see her again as well. Either way, nothing could be done.
If you just go around helping others and doing good it will not help you get to heaven. Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast."
Your quoting of that passage is taken out of context, I'm afraid. Matthew 25:31-46 is the passage you are talking about. It is talking about Christ's judgement of the earth when he returns to it. It talks about the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left. You are saying that the sheep are those that do good. This is not so. The sheep are symbolic of those saved through faith. The goats are symbolic of those who attempted to get to heaven by works or who didn't even try to get there. God will let the saved into heaven. Then God will turn to the unsaved. He will deny them heaven because they didn't accept his gift. They will ask when they saw Him naked and did not clothe him or hungry and did not feed him, etc. He will say that they didn't do it to those who were as such, so they didn't do it to him. The reason why those who did good will not go into heaven is because they never did the right thing for the right reason. They did it only so they could get into heaven, not for Jesus. The only way you can do anything for Jesus is if you accept his gift of salvation from sin, which involves salvation from the eternal torment Matthew talks about in verse 46.
This is the kind of thing that disgusts me about religion.
It's bad enough that you had to deal with losing your grandfather, but because of the fairy stories you've been conditioned into believing you're left wondering if he's now trapped in eternal damnation.
The people who filled your mind with such outrageous trash should be utterly ashamed of themselves.
How bout Gal. 3:28 just before the verse I quoted earlier:
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Linux is free.....if your time costs nothing.
It is definitely signifigant, but I do not know that it in any way invalidates the Bible. Perhaps some commonly held beliefs, but not the bible itself.
Truth be told, I don't really know what to make of it and I'll need to look into it further
Linux is free.....if your time costs nothing.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
This is the kind of thing that disgusts me about religion.
It's bad enough that you had to deal with losing your grandfather, but because of the fairy stories you've been conditioned into believing you're left wondering if he's now trapped in eternal damnation.
The people who filled your mind with such outrageous trash should be utterly ashamed of themselves.
I agree with firemagic on that one...states a good point