If you like to play lots of pvp, then play a different game.
I don't WANT Rift to get it's classes watered down so it's balanced for pvp. In order to get thing "fair" you end up with everyone having the same skills with different names.
Poor balance, too much CC, l2p and rock-paper-scissors arguments.... it's WAR all over again.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
raystantzFinal Fantasy XI CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,237
this is the only thing stopping me from buying Rift.
I'm not a PVPer like say Darkfall.
I'm more of the guy who did the PVE in WoW to get gear to get better at PVP in WoW. I liked to world pvp, and do the occassional ganking. I kind of play them all in a combination. I don't ONLY pvp, but I like it.. Is rift still a bad choice for PVP?
Again, I'm not the type of person who would play Darkfall, or similar. and I'm not the sort of person who cares about things like arena. I just like fun spontaneous world pvp, and the occassional instanced pvp.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
but whoever bought Rifts for PvP is imo seriously misguided. They never advertised their game for PvP. It was always a side game for them. Well hope you enjoyed the PvE themepark ride so far. Fiddle your fingers until they program your new content pack to burn through or stop the sub and read a book till something long-term meaningful comes around...
PvP in MMORPGs will never be really balanced. The players who spent most time grinding (or paying money in the shop) will have superior equipment and thus be able to kill the others. If you want balanced PvP, play something like Team Fortress 2.
Unbalanced only when the game is 1v1 if you work as a team the game is balanced. Stop trying to be superman and solo everything work as a team and win simple. I play a cleric healer and rouges/warriors never cause me any trouble when i work with other people.
I dont think that many MMO companies aim for e-sports balance in PVP. Its just for fun and shouldnt be taken too seriously. So, no need to take bragging ppl in PVP seriously either
I think if you read all the post's my point is well made by many people.
The pvp in Rift is bad. Very bad. Balance is non existent with the melee classes having better CC then the ranged classes. Warriors right now can stunlock and aoe fear, also they have many gap closers.
One more point. I know WAR's pvp had some serrious balance issues on release but as a headstart player on both games the balance issues in Rift are far far worse then WAR's ever were.
It is clear to me that the devs of WAR had a much more focused idea of what pvp should be. That should have been obvious too me I know now.
The point of this post was to simply let people like me who enjoy pvp in mmo's that Rift is not for them.
If you are going to play Rift roll a warrior. Also notice that all the people defending pvp in Rift rolled Warriors.
And yes I took a Cleric to 50 and a rogue to 35. I also played a mage to 30 in beta. Clerics have no viable pvp spec, mages have one maybe 2. Rogues have a few (mostly sab or bard) and Warriors can range you, pull you, stunlock you, fear you, burst you.....etc.
The fact is there is so much countering to mana users it's ludicrous. CC is out of control in Rift, doubly so for mana users.
If you have a close and stun ability up a Warrior can chase down a Rogue, the Rogue mostly will get away. Meanwhile he does long ranged attacks on you while he is running away, some can slow you or get a speed boost just from hitting you.
You chase tham and die, not sure how this makes the Warrior class overpowered, maybe we don't die quickly enough for you?
Things have definitely improved for my healing cleric now that I've reached prestige 3, using PvP gear, fully utilising the PvP tree with the damage reduction heals and making a build based on self survivability first and AoE healing as a second goal.
There really are some glaring PvP inbalances. The Warrior is incredibly OP atm, with flame spear being the most overused and annoying ability.
I get that they tried to make quite a few different soul types under each calling, but who thought a ranges warrior soul was a good idea? The idea of a warrior is that he can take loads of damage and hit hard if he gets to you. Hitting from range should be a dexterity requirement (or ballistic skill in some games), both typically lower stats in warriors.
If you have a close and stun ability up a Warrior can chase down a Rogue, the Rogue mostly will get away. Meanwhile he does long ranged attacks on you while he is running away, some can slow you or get a speed boost just from hitting you.
You chase tham and die, not sure how this makes the Warrior class overpowered, maybe we don't die quickly enough for you?
For those that don't mess with the official boards, there seem to be a few bugs severely impacting pvp at the moment.
The most glaring example is here. After much testing, it looks like paragon is massively bugged when mixed with champion, completely ignoring all armor rather than just 5%. Sabs might very well be benefitting from the same armor penetration glitch.
No help for mages, but goes a long way in explaining the champ/sab domination, especially in lower brackets.
I hate quoting my own post, but no one seems to have read it.
After more testing, it seems that one measly point in paragon will turn any warrior into an armor-ignoring death machine.
Let me say that again:
Currently there is a bug that allows warriors to ignore all armor!
And lots of warriors know about it. There are also quite a few other paragon bugs like allowing talents meant for dual-wielding to function with two handed weapons etc.
I imagine these will be fixed soon, given Trion's track record, but they really should have been sqashed in one of the many betas.
Playing: FFXIV, EVE
raystantzFinal Fantasy XI CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,237
what scenarios are these complaints being made about?
There isn't just "pvp sucks" or "this class sucks in pvp".
In WoW.. one class might be able to destroy another class one on one.. but were machines when they were in a group setting.
I think its impossible to balance a PVE game around 1 vs. 1 pvp. If you can't take down a warrior by yourself, grab a buddy or two. Everytime i see these kinds of complaints people are normally talking about 1 vs. 1 PVP which almost never happens anyway.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
There's lot's of complaint's about warriors on the official forum, so I guess there's something into it. I do also read complaining about that 1 dps cannot kill a healer, mages that insta kills and so on. Basically the official forum is overwhelmed by whiners from all classes complaing that the other classes are OP.
As all games are starting; "this game is balanced around pve (lol) and not about pvp. How your class is "balanced" in pve really doesnt mean a jack shit; it ends up with pvp balance because that's the REAL action. So in the end, when millions of subscribers are whining, enough, we will have Rift balanced around pvp too. 100% sure. It would not be smart to marked a game like Rift as "pvp"; we already know it has all the tools from wow and some more, so why not start it by stating it is about pve? We all know it will be balanced around PvP in the end anyways. So I do not bother much now about the class balances. It will change soon anyway.
Nerf Warriors. I guess. Or was it the mage or cleric? I am rogue, and I am not OP. Or am I?
Maybe you should take into account that you are there with a group instead of you vs them when considering balance. Or is that too much logic for forums?
I agree with the OP but not with the way that he presented his post. The thing I find most unbalanced is how mana based classes are punished in this game in every aspect because they "use" mana. Caster classes have a slower gcd, they can be perma mana drained by VKs and Dominators while being perma ccd, mana regens at a really slow rate, etc.
There's lot's of complaint's about warriors on the official forum, so I guess there's something into it. I do also read complaining about that 1 dps cannot kill a healer, mages that insta kills and so on. Basically the official forum is overwhelmed by whiners from all classes complaing that the other classes are OP.
As all games are starting; "this game is balanced around pve (lol) and not about pvp. How your class is "balanced" in pve really doesnt mean a jack shit; it ends up with pvp balance because that's the REAL action. So in the end, when millions of subscribers are whining, enough, we will have Rift balanced around pvp too. 100% sure. It would not be smart to marked a game like Rift as "pvp"; we already know it has all the tools from wow and some more, so why not start it by stating it is about pve? We all know it will be balanced around PvP in the end anyways. So I do not bother much now about the class balances. It will change soon anyway.
Nerf Warriors. I guess. Or was it the mage or cleric? I am rogue, and I am not OP. Or am I?
ground of strength. 30% reductio to all damage and immune to all CC effects while in your circle and each damaging spell has a 30% chance to stun
A level 44 ability in pyromancer ability.
Before that they get ass raped by champions in 5 seconds flat then in the span one level the tables change around.
Sound good? No, its nuts. That is why you hear inconsistent things in the forums. Because both are true at different times.
No rogues are not OP. Rogues suck. Crap for CC, Crap for damage, Crap for mitigation at least in PvP. Their damage is subpar in PvE too though. Except for sabs, Sabs have good pve damage. Assassin/NB has OK PvE damage it not terrible but it is sub-par to all other callings including DPS inquisitor cleric.
I agree with the OP but not with the way that he presented his post. The thing I find most unbalanced is how mana based classes are punished in this game in every aspect because they "use" mana. Caster classes have a slower gcd, they can be perma mana drained by VKs and Dominators while being perma ccd, mana regens at a really slow rate, etc.
Warriors have the same GCD.
Only rogues have 1 sec GCD.
But yeah ranged casters have some mana issues and mana drain is much nastier for casters than it is for war or rogue even though they can get drained too. Also mana regens very slow.
Comments
I think this answer well summarizes whats Rift.
So what did you roll...warrior or rogue?
Poor balance, too much CC, l2p and rock-paper-scissors arguments.... it's WAR all over again.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
this is the only thing stopping me from buying Rift.
I'm not a PVPer like say Darkfall.
I'm more of the guy who did the PVE in WoW to get gear to get better at PVP in WoW. I liked to world pvp, and do the occassional ganking. I kind of play them all in a combination. I don't ONLY pvp, but I like it.. Is rift still a bad choice for PVP?
Again, I'm not the type of person who would play Darkfall, or similar. and I'm not the sort of person who cares about things like arena. I just like fun spontaneous world pvp, and the occassional instanced pvp.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
never mind...
but whoever bought Rifts for PvP is imo seriously misguided. They never advertised their game for PvP. It was always a side game for them. Well hope you enjoyed the PvE themepark ride so far. Fiddle your fingers until they program your new content pack to burn through or stop the sub and read a book till something long-term meaningful comes around...
PvP in MMORPGs will never be really balanced. The players who spent most time grinding (or paying money in the shop) will have superior equipment and thus be able to kill the others. If you want balanced PvP, play something like Team Fortress 2.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
I dont think that many MMO companies aim for e-sports balance in PVP. Its just for fun and shouldnt be taken too seriously. So, no need to take bragging ppl in PVP seriously either
I like this game...
Thanks for all the reply's.
I think if you read all the post's my point is well made by many people.
The pvp in Rift is bad. Very bad. Balance is non existent with the melee classes having better CC then the ranged classes. Warriors right now can stunlock and aoe fear, also they have many gap closers.
One more point. I know WAR's pvp had some serrious balance issues on release but as a headstart player on both games the balance issues in Rift are far far worse then WAR's ever were.
It is clear to me that the devs of WAR had a much more focused idea of what pvp should be. That should have been obvious too me I know now.
The point of this post was to simply let people like me who enjoy pvp in mmo's that Rift is not for them.
If you are going to play Rift roll a warrior. Also notice that all the people defending pvp in Rift rolled Warriors.
And yes I took a Cleric to 50 and a rogue to 35. I also played a mage to 30 in beta. Clerics have no viable pvp spec, mages have one maybe 2. Rogues have a few (mostly sab or bard) and Warriors can range you, pull you, stunlock you, fear you, burst you.....etc.
The fact is there is so much countering to mana users it's ludicrous. CC is out of control in Rift, doubly so for mana users.
If you have a close and stun ability up a Warrior can chase down a Rogue, the Rogue mostly will get away. Meanwhile he does long ranged attacks on you while he is running away, some can slow you or get a speed boost just from hitting you.
You chase tham and die, not sure how this makes the Warrior class overpowered, maybe we don't die quickly enough for you?
So As I Warrior I dont see this at all.
Things have definitely improved for my healing cleric now that I've reached prestige 3, using PvP gear, fully utilising the PvP tree with the damage reduction heals and making a build based on self survivability first and AoE healing as a second goal.
They just need to put in immunity timers for CC against players as well as diminishing returns if that players is multi-stunned.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
There really are some glaring PvP inbalances. The Warrior is incredibly OP atm, with flame spear being the most overused and annoying ability.
I get that they tried to make quite a few different soul types under each calling, but who thought a ranges warrior soul was a good idea? The idea of a warrior is that he can take loads of damage and hit hard if he gets to you. Hitting from range should be a dexterity requirement (or ballistic skill in some games), both typically lower stats in warriors.
word
Whats the problem? everyone become wariors and rogues and then PvP will be the best balanced game online.
I hate quoting my own post, but no one seems to have read it.
After more testing, it seems that one measly point in paragon will turn any warrior into an armor-ignoring death machine.
Let me say that again:
Currently there is a bug that allows warriors to ignore all armor!
And lots of warriors know about it. There are also quite a few other paragon bugs like allowing talents meant for dual-wielding to function with two handed weapons etc.
I imagine these will be fixed soon, given Trion's track record, but they really should have been sqashed in one of the many betas.
Playing: FFXIV, EVE
what scenarios are these complaints being made about?
There isn't just "pvp sucks" or "this class sucks in pvp".
In WoW.. one class might be able to destroy another class one on one.. but were machines when they were in a group setting.
I think its impossible to balance a PVE game around 1 vs. 1 pvp. If you can't take down a warrior by yourself, grab a buddy or two. Everytime i see these kinds of complaints people are normally talking about 1 vs. 1 PVP which almost never happens anyway.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
There's lot's of complaint's about warriors on the official forum, so I guess there's something into it. I do also read complaining about that 1 dps cannot kill a healer, mages that insta kills and so on. Basically the official forum is overwhelmed by whiners from all classes complaing that the other classes are OP.
As all games are starting; "this game is balanced around pve (lol) and not about pvp. How your class is "balanced" in pve really doesnt mean a jack shit; it ends up with pvp balance because that's the REAL action. So in the end, when millions of subscribers are whining, enough, we will have Rift balanced around pvp too. 100% sure. It would not be smart to marked a game like Rift as "pvp"; we already know it has all the tools from wow and some more, so why not start it by stating it is about pve? We all know it will be balanced around PvP in the end anyways. So I do not bother much now about the class balances. It will change soon anyway.
Nerf Warriors. I guess. Or was it the mage or cleric? I am rogue, and I am not OP. Or am I?
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Maybe you should take into account that you are there with a group instead of you vs them when considering balance. Or is that too much logic for forums?
in endgame raid style pvp, mages are really scary. on my warrior i was crit for 3.5k and then 2 sec later 1.5k by some mage.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
ground of strength. 30% reductio to all damage and immune to all CC effects while in your circle and each damaging spell has a 30% chance to stun
A level 44 ability in pyromancer ability.
Before that they get ass raped by champions in 5 seconds flat then in the span one level the tables change around.
Sound good? No, its nuts. That is why you hear inconsistent things in the forums. Because both are true at different times.
No rogues are not OP. Rogues suck. Crap for CC, Crap for damage, Crap for mitigation at least in PvP. Their damage is subpar in PvE too though. Except for sabs, Sabs have good pve damage. Assassin/NB has OK PvE damage it not terrible but it is sub-par to all other callings including DPS inquisitor cleric.
Warriors have the same GCD.
Only rogues have 1 sec GCD.
But yeah ranged casters have some mana issues and mana drain is much nastier for casters than it is for war or rogue even though they can get drained too. Also mana regens very slow.
Its so obvious you Play Rift on a PVE server. If you play it at all that is.
The PVP in Rift is a very bad joke. its not even funny. Its the worse PVP i seen in a MMO in a long time.
Rift PVP is all about CC. Whoever CC's first and most wins. There is no Skill whatsoever in Rift PVP, just CC.
Rogues and Warriors are the god mode classes. Super OP and super CC.
Also in Rift there are no CC immunitys. you can be chain CCed until dead, and you will be if you do PVP in it on open world PVP server.
So get your facts stright Boy.