Nothing's changed with the game; more and more people are just now realizing that what BioWare was making all along is not what they (the people) assumed BioWare was making or what they (the people) actually wanted.
"Hey, it's Angelina Jolie and she plays Indiana Jones with guns and tits! How can you possibly screw up this concept?!"
"Actually, not only can we screw it up, we can do it twice!"
pls. refer to Tomb Raider 1 & 2 films.
Same thing with SWTOR - "Hey it's BioWare! BioWare is awesome! And Star Wars - SW is perfect world for MMO! How can this possibly go wrong?!"
pls see: Matrix Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Star Trek Online, DC Universe Online...
And why shouldn´t they do it there own way , they stated it will HAVE STORY ! (meaning bioware kind of story , wheel and romance and fluff)
Next they said it will BE WOWCLONE (so best elements of wow mixed with there story system ) people still didn´t get it .
I mean sure we all want to see what it is all about , but did they ever stated publicly different ?
No they shouldn´t have said a wowclone but a MMO CLONE , but since majority think MMO only there favorite MMO .
It wouldn´t have worked , now basically if people had a bit of sense , they knew already what was coming .
Now I am happy they are now finally finishing the MMO part , without losing the bioware part (story companions and romance)
Thats the kind of MMO I want , that and tons of bioware fans will play it , Mass Effect system while it looks like a shootemup , first scared me off , but after trying the dumb down shoot emup system , I love it , its simply fast pace squad action (except on insanity) combining with bioware story .
Infact if people played Mass Effect , they would have known how this MMO going to be , instead of shootemup system a traditionally mmo style system .
And let say this , cause resident evil is horrible , it still profitable it is going into the 5th movie already .
And each movie brings in more money then the last , and always covers the production cost more then tripple .
So you see what mainstream screams it fails , still makes a huge profit with the fanbase .
Now if you are not happy with themepark development , you should support sandbox MMO and keep supporting it .
It's a conservative, backwater type of game design feeling more like a 5 year old MMORPG than anything modern, innovative or pushing the boundaries forward.
But, to give some details:
Your first quest in SWTOR as Sith Lord: Kill 10 bugs in a cellar... err dungeon. THATS the epic new story? Look at the first quest GW2 sends you to, against that epic huge beast! Nothing I have seen in SWTOR gameplay is epic. The visuals are just ok but lightyears away from the great look of GW2. Nothing in the combat model is anything else than the same old EQ/WOW model. See how powers interact in GW2, how positioning and moving is important, and compare that to the stoneage "stand still and hack your powers" EQ/WOW combat from SWTOR. Outside of the fact it has a Star Wars story in it, nothing sofar is anything but very lackluster and basic. Not bad, but way behind anything to aspire to have cool and innovative gameplay AT ALL.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
It's too bad that people believe DA2 has any effect on TOR. Oh wells!
And GW does not start with a "kill a giant rock boss". For humans, you start out killing the centuars. A certain amount must be killed, then a centaur boss shows, you defeat him, then you get a big rock (ie dragon). I also bet at no point in GW or any of it's DE do you have to kill 10 (or some other number) of mobs to complete a quest/part of a DE. Right?
It's a conservative, backwater type of game design feeling more like a 5 year old MMORPG than anything modern, innovative or pushing the boundaries forward.
But, to give some details:
Your first quest in SWTOR as Sith Lord: Kill 10 bugs in a cellar... err dungeon. THATS the epic new story? Look at the first quest GW2 sends you to, against that epic huge beast! Nothing I have seen in SWTOR gameplay is epic. The visuals are just ok but lightyears away from the great look of GW2. Nothing in the combat model is anything else than the same old EQ/WOW model. See how powers interact in GW2, how positioning and moving is important, and compare that to the stoneage "stand still and hack your powers" EQ/WOW combat from SWTOR. Outside of the fact it has a Star Wars story in it, nothing sofar is anything but very lackluster and basic. Not bad, but way behind anything to aspire to have cool and innovative gameplay AT ALL.
That is not the first quest in TOR. Kill 10 bugs in the temple is an optional quest that you are given automatically when entering. It is just something you can do while making your way to the actual quest and be rewarded for it a little more than just 40XP per kill.
This is the first quest as a sith warrior. Replacing your training blade, not go kill 10 bugs. Notice when he kills the first bug outside the temple it says "BONUS KILL".
Nothing's changed with the game; more and more people are just now realizing that what BioWare was making all along is not what they (the people) assumed BioWare was making or what they (the people) actually wanted.
"Hey, it's Angelina Jolie and she plays Indiana Jones with guns and tits! How can you possibly screw up this concept?!"
"Actually, not only can we screw it up, we can do it twice!"
pls. refer to Tomb Raider 1 & 2 films.
Tomb Raider was based off the video games, not Indiana Jones.
Same thing with SWTOR - "Hey it's BioWare! BioWare is awesome! And Star Wars - SW is perfect world for MMO! How can this possibly go wrong?!"
pls see: Matrix Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Star Trek Online, DC Universe Online...
None of which are anything like this game nor were made by Bioware. A better example would be...
Hey, it's SOE! Let's take Star Wars and make the ultimate sandbox. How could this possibly go wrong?
It's a conservative, backwater type of game design feeling more like a 5 year old MMORPG than anything modern, innovative or pushing the boundaries forward.
But, to give some details:
Your first quest in SWTOR as Sith Lord: Kill 10 bugs in a cellar... err dungeon. THATS the epic new story? Look at the first quest GW2 sends you to, against that epic huge beast! Nothing I have seen in SWTOR gameplay is epic. The visuals are just ok but lightyears away from the great look of GW2. Nothing in the combat model is anything else than the same old EQ/WOW model. See how powers interact in GW2, how positioning and moving is important, and compare that to the stoneage "stand still and hack your powers" EQ/WOW combat from SWTOR. Outside of the fact it has a Star Wars story in it, nothing sofar is anything but very lackluster and basic. Not bad, but way behind anything to aspire to have cool and innovative gameplay AT ALL.
That is not the first quest in TOR. Kill 10 bugs in the temple is an optional quest that you are given automatically when entering. It is just something you can do while making your way to the actual quest and be rewarded for it a little more than just 40XP per kill.
This is the first quest as a sith warrior. Replacing your training blade, not go kill 10 bugs. Notice when he kills the first bug outside the temple it says "BONUS KILL".
I just checked in GW2 forums and apparently not everyone feels the same way about QW2.
"EVERY and I mean every landscape seems to be rather dull and uninspired. The game seems to suffer from a rather LOW draw distance, especially with terrain. So many videos you see blue fog fade in from a not so far distance, I mean *blue* fog really?!?!? I really can't forgive a newer game that has this low of a terrain draw distance.
(compare to SWTOR that has great terrain draw distance"
" The combat seems to be your fairly typical fantasy MMO combat except with a couple of adjustments to make it seem different like dodge and the possibility of something simple like an arrow being affected by someone elses fire.... nothing "revolutionary" about it."
" The VO work is presented horribly. When VO happens, the game cuts to a screen with a picture and the person you're talking to and just STAYS on that screen the whole time and you get to just watch the NPC's lips move..... BORING. "
No thanks guys. You can keep waiting for GW2. I'll stick to TOR.
See how powers interact in GW2, how positioning and moving is important, and compare that to the stoneage "stand still and hack your powers" EQ/WOW combat from SWTOR.
As expected, clearly you haven't been paying attention to the video footage and reports. You can use most of your skills on the move. Personally I think that every MMO gamer that could stomach the lacklustre gameplay aspects of SWG just because they were stuck up into sandbox features, is bound to be biased to some degree against themepark MMO's because it's not the sandbox features that they're really looking for.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It's a conservative, backwater type of game design feeling more like a 5 year old MMORPG than anything modern, innovative or pushing the boundaries forward.
But, to give some details:
Your first quest in SWTOR as Sith Lord: Kill 10 bugs in a cellar... err dungeon. THATS the epic new story? Look at the first quest GW2 sends you to, against that epic huge beast! Nothing I have seen in SWTOR gameplay is epic. The visuals are just ok but lightyears away from the great look of GW2. Nothing in the combat model is anything else than the same old EQ/WOW model. See how powers interact in GW2, how positioning and moving is important, and compare that to the stoneage "stand still and hack your powers" EQ/WOW combat from SWTOR. Outside of the fact it has a Star Wars story in it, nothing sofar is anything but very lackluster and basic. Not bad, but way behind anything to aspire to have cool and innovative gameplay AT ALL.
That is not the first quest in TOR. Kill 10 bugs in the temple is an optional quest that you are given automatically when entering. It is just something you can do while making your way to the actual quest and be rewarded for it a little more than just 40XP per kill.
This is the first quest as a sith warrior. Replacing your training blade, not go kill 10 bugs. Notice when he kills the first bug outside the temple it says "BONUS KILL".
I just checked in GW2 forums and apparently not everyone feels the same way about QW2.
"EVERY and I mean every landscape seems to be rather dull and uninspired. The game seems to suffer from a rather LOW draw distance, especially with terrain. So many videos you see blue fog fade in from a not so far distance, I mean *blue* fog really?!?!? I really can't forgive a newer game that has this low of a terrain draw distance.
(compare to SWTOR that has great terrain draw distance"
" The combat seems to be your fairly typical fantasy MMO combat except with a couple of adjustments to make it seem different like dodge and the possibility of something simple like an arrow being affected by someone elses fire.... nothing "revolutionary" about it."
" The VO work is presented horribly. When VO happens, the game cuts to a screen with a picture and the person you're talking to and just STAYS on that screen the whole time and you get to just watch the NPC's lips move..... BORING. "
No thanks guys. You can keep waiting for GW2. I'll stick to TOR.
Was this directed at what i said? Because i was defending TOR
See how powers interact in GW2, how positioning and moving is important, and compare that to the stoneage "stand still and hack your powers" EQ/WOW combat from SWTOR.
As expected, clearly you haven't been paying attention to the video footage and reports. You can use most of your skills on the move. Personally I think that every MMO gamer that could stomach the lacklustre gameplay aspects of SWG just because they were stuck up into sandbox features, is bound to be biased to some degree against themepark MMO's because it's not the sandbox features that they're really looking for.
That's not what I mean. Yes you can move. But it doesn't matter. In GW2, a mage can cast a fire field and if a Ranger shoots arrows through it, they catch fire and do additional fire damage. I mean, wow, how cool is THAT!? GW2 has tons of powers that interact with each other, with the physics of the world and the positioning. Like you can smash stuff and it drops on mobs asf. It's just so different from the EQ-era combat of TOR. In SWTOR so far I have seen NOTHING even remotely like this.
And regarding the 10 rat quests: Didn't Bioware itself always tout out that in their game you NEVER make such non heroic stuff like "kill 10 rats"? I am just measuring them by their own saying. And reading reviews of the starter area from several magazines, many who played that starter area of TOR were quite underwhelmed about how generic the quests were and how mobs just stood there waiting. I am not making that up. While on the other hand every review about the starter areas of GW2 emphasized how cool and entertaining they were.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
See how powers interact in GW2, how positioning and moving is important, and compare that to the stoneage "stand still and hack your powers" EQ/WOW combat from SWTOR.
As expected, clearly you haven't been paying attention to the video footage and reports. You can use most of your skills on the move. Personally I think that every MMO gamer that could stomach the lacklustre gameplay aspects of SWG just because they were stuck up into sandbox features, is bound to be biased to some degree against themepark MMO's because it's not the sandbox features that they're really looking for.
That's not what I mean. Yes you can move. But it doesn't matter. In GW2, a mage can cast a fire field and if a Ranger shoots arrows through it, they catch fire and do additional fire damage. I mean, wow, how cool is THAT!? GW2 has tons of powers that interact with each other, with the physics of the world and the positioning. Like you can smash stuff and it drops on mobs asf. It's just so different from the EQ-era combat of TOR. In SWTOR so far I have seen NOTHING even remotely like this.
And regarding the 10 rat quests: Didn't Bioware itself always tout out that in their game you NEVER make such non heroic stuff like "kill 10 rats"? I am just measuring them by their own saying. And reading reviews of the starter area from several magazines, many who played that starter area of TOR were quite underwhelmed about how generic the quests were and how mobs just stood there waiting. I am not making that up. While on the other hand every review about the starter areas of GW2 emphasized how cool and entertaining they were.
It doesn't really bother me that the combat in SWTOR is "unoriginal", or not innovative, as long as it's engaging enough to keep my interest. That's the real deal breaker here, not a bunch of silly interactive powers.
And I'm not knocking what Arenanet is doing with GW2. On the Contrary, they seem to be doing some cool things, but that doesn't mean shit if the game can't keep my interest. I've played my share of MMORPG's that have been said to be "original and innovative" and have completely failed to be a good, enjoyable game.
And I've seen some reviewers criticize the starting zones. But I've also seen most of them recant their comments either after spending more time playing the starting zones, or playing a newer version of it. Overall, people seem to like it, and you really can't deny that.
I guess my point is: I don't care if a game totally original, I just care if it's well designed. SWTOR seems to be well designed.
That's not what I mean. Yes you can move. But it doesn't matter. In GW2, a mage can cast a fire field and if a Ranger shoots arrows through it, they catch fire and do additional fire damage. I mean, wow, how cool is THAT!? GW2 has tons of powers that interact with each other, with the physics of the world and the positioning. Like you can smash stuff and it drops on mobs asf. It's just so different from the EQ-era combat of TOR. In SWTOR so far I have seen NOTHING even remotely like this.
That's because when someone dislikes a game, they by default dislike and don't pay attention to the positive merits of that game. Some people work that way, their likes and dislikes color everything they perceive selectively. While in SWTOR the skills don't interact with eachother, SWTOR does use limited ragdoll physics, and the skills and combat shown look far from bland. As others also have reported.
And regarding the 10 rat quests: Didn't Bioware itself always tout out that in their game you NEVER make such non heroic stuff like "kill 10 rats"? I am just measuring them by their own saying. And reading reviews of the starter area from several magazines, many who played that starter area of TOR were quite underwhelmed about how generic the quests were and how mobs just stood there waiting. I am not making that up. While on the other hand every review about the starter areas of GW2 emphasized how cool and entertaining they were.
Wrong again. You only - and maybe predictably? - focus on the 1 or 2 reports that spoke badly about the quests, presumably because they fit your opinion better, so that's why those stuck in your mind, while blatantly ignoring the 20-30+ reports from magazines as well as normal players who were enthusiastic about SWTOR's changes in its questing.
I'm not making that up, I could look them all up for you, but can't be bothered to invest the time to do it. Maybe later, if I hit the mood.
Originally posted by theratmonkey
And I've seen some reviewers criticize the starting zones. But I've also seen most of them recant their comments either after spending more time playing the starting zones, or playing a newer version of it. Overall, people seem to like it, and you really can't deny that.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That's not what I mean. Yes you can move. But it doesn't matter. In GW2, a mage can cast a fire field and if a Ranger shoots arrows through it, they catch fire and do additional fire damage. I mean, wow, how cool is THAT!? GW2 has tons of powers that interact with each other, with the physics of the world and the positioning. Like you can smash stuff and it drops on mobs asf. It's just so different from the EQ-era combat of TOR. In SWTOR so far I have seen NOTHING even remotely like this.
That's because when someone dislikes a game, they by default dislike and don't pay attention to the positive merits of that game. Some people work that way, their likes and dislikes color everything they perceive selectively. While in SWTOR the skills don't interact with eachother, SWTOR does use limited ragdoll physics, and the skills and combat shown look far from bland. As others also have reported.
And regarding the 10 rat quests: Didn't Bioware itself always tout out that in their game you NEVER make such non heroic stuff like "kill 10 rats"? I am just measuring them by their own saying. And reading reviews of the starter area from several magazines, many who played that starter area of TOR were quite underwhelmed about how generic the quests were and how mobs just stood there waiting. I am not making that up. While on the other hand every review about the starter areas of GW2 emphasized how cool and entertaining they were.
Wrong again. You only - and maybe predictably? - focus on the 1 or 2 reports that spoke badly about the quests, presumably because they fit your opinion better, so that's why those stuck in your mind, while blatantly ignoring the 20-30+ reports from magazines as well as normal players who were enthusiastic about SWTOR's changes in its questing.
I'm not making that up, I could look them all up for you, but can't be bothered to invest the time to do it. Maybe later, if I hit the mood.
Originally posted by theratmonkey
And I've seen some reviewers criticize the starting zones. But I've also seen most of them recant their comments either after spending more time playing the starting zones, or playing a newer version of it. Overall, people seem to like it, and you really can't deny that.
QFE.
Saying I disagree with things about TOR because I don't like it doesn't make sense. The same way I could say you disagree with me just because you don't like me. =P
I argue on what I see. *shrug* Take it or leave it. I don't say SWTOR is a bad game. But for the large amount of money and the big names involved it sure looks way too standard fare and basic, no matter how many times you label me a hater.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
That's not what I mean. Yes you can move. But it doesn't matter. In GW2, a mage can cast a fire field and if a Ranger shoots arrows through it, they catch fire and do additional fire damage. I mean, wow, how cool is THAT!? GW2 has tons of powers that interact with each other, with the physics of the world and the positioning. Like you can smash stuff and it drops on mobs asf. It's just so different from the EQ-era combat of TOR. In SWTOR so far I have seen NOTHING even remotely like this.
That's because when someone dislikes a game, they by default dislike and don't pay attention to the positive merits of that game. Some people work that way, their likes and dislikes color everything they perceive selectively. While in SWTOR the skills don't interact with eachother, SWTOR does use limited ragdoll physics, and the skills and combat shown look far from bland. As others also have reported.
And regarding the 10 rat quests: Didn't Bioware itself always tout out that in their game you NEVER make such non heroic stuff like "kill 10 rats"? I am just measuring them by their own saying. And reading reviews of the starter area from several magazines, many who played that starter area of TOR were quite underwhelmed about how generic the quests were and how mobs just stood there waiting. I am not making that up. While on the other hand every review about the starter areas of GW2 emphasized how cool and entertaining they were.
Wrong again. You only - and maybe predictably? - focus on the 1 or 2 reports that spoke badly about the quests, presumably because they fit your opinion better, so that's why those stuck in your mind, while blatantly ignoring the 20-30+ reports from magazines as well as normal players who were enthusiastic about SWTOR's changes in its questing.
I'm not making that up, I could look them all up for you, but can't be bothered to invest the time to do it. Maybe later, if I hit the mood.
Originally posted by theratmonkey
And I've seen some reviewers criticize the starting zones. But I've also seen most of them recant their comments either after spending more time playing the starting zones, or playing a newer version of it. Overall, people seem to like it, and you really can't deny that.
QFE.
Saying I disagree with things about TOR because I don't like it doesn't make sense. The same way I could say you disagree with me just because you don't like me. =P
I argue on what I see. *shrug* Take it or leave it. I don't say SWTOR is a bad game. But for the large amount of money and the big names involved it sure looks way too standard fare and basic, no matter how many times you label me a hater.
Only if you don't bother looking into the details.
That's not what I mean. Yes you can move. But it doesn't matter. In GW2, a mage can cast a fire field and if a Ranger shoots arrows through it, they catch fire and do additional fire damage. I mean, wow, how cool is THAT!? GW2 has tons of powers that interact with each other, with the physics of the world and the positioning. Like you can smash stuff and it drops on mobs asf. It's just so different from the EQ-era combat of TOR. In SWTOR so far I have seen NOTHING even remotely like this.
That's because when someone dislikes a game, they by default dislike and don't pay attention to the positive merits of that game. Some people work that way, their likes and dislikes color everything they perceive selectively. While in SWTOR the skills don't interact with eachother, SWTOR does use limited ragdoll physics, and the skills and combat shown look far from bland. As others also have reported.
And regarding the 10 rat quests: Didn't Bioware itself always tout out that in their game you NEVER make such non heroic stuff like "kill 10 rats"? I am just measuring them by their own saying. And reading reviews of the starter area from several magazines, many who played that starter area of TOR were quite underwhelmed about how generic the quests were and how mobs just stood there waiting. I am not making that up. While on the other hand every review about the starter areas of GW2 emphasized how cool and entertaining they were.
Wrong again. You only - and maybe predictably? - focus on the 1 or 2 reports that spoke badly about the quests, presumably because they fit your opinion better, so that's why those stuck in your mind, while blatantly ignoring the 20-30+ reports from magazines as well as normal players who were enthusiastic about SWTOR's changes in its questing.
I'm not making that up, I could look them all up for you, but can't be bothered to invest the time to do it. Maybe later, if I hit the mood.
Originally posted by theratmonkey
And I've seen some reviewers criticize the starting zones. But I've also seen most of them recant their comments either after spending more time playing the starting zones, or playing a newer version of it. Overall, people seem to like it, and you really can't deny that.
QFE.
Saying I disagree with things about TOR because I don't like it doesn't make sense. The same way I could say you disagree with me just because you don't like me. =P
I argue on what I see. *shrug* Take it or leave it. I don't say SWTOR is a bad game. But for the large amount of money and the big names involved it sure looks way too standard fare and basic, no matter how many times you label me a hater.
Only if you don't bother looking into the details.
Ok humor me. Where is TOR combat as interactive with environment and between the various powers of a group as the GW2 examples?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Saying I disagree with things about TOR because I don't like it doesn't make sense. The same way I could say you disagree with me just because you don't like me. =P
Hmm, this discussion veers into the personal, but ok, for this 1 time only, since you asked . From the posts that I read from you, it looks like you let your dislikes color your opinion into purely subjective, to the point of focusing on the negative stuff that reinforces your dislikes while ignoring as good as all of the positive stuff that contradicts the negative. Sort of being set in one's viewpoint. If your argument of me disagreeing with you because I dislike you was meant as more than a fake example: I can agree when arguments are fair, reasonable or logical even when I dislike somebody (which here isn't the case, I'm fairly neutral towards you), I disagree when I find arguments being unreasonable or having flawed logic.
I argue on what I see. *shrug* Take it or leave it. I don't say SWTOR is a bad game. But for the large amount of money and the big names involved it sure looks way too standard fare and basic, no matter how many times you label me a hater.
My issue is with the fact when people only see what they want to see and only hear what they like to hear, and ignore all the rest. If someone dislikes a game or how it looks or gameplay features, fine. If they feel the need to make it into some kind of vindication or justification of their own opinion and taste using arguments like 'many that played the game felt the same way', then they should at least stick to the facts. So far, player impressions and reports point towards the overall majority of them liking what they played and saw.
If SWTOR isn't what you're looking for, no problem there, tastes differ.
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by Jimmy562
Only if you don't bother looking into the details.
Ok humor me. Where is TOR combat as interactive with environment and between the various powers of a group as the GW2 examples?
Wrong reasoning. He didn't say that the details would be exactly the same as GW2 details.
I'd say that the limited ragdoll physics, the synchronised combat animation and the typical Star Wars recognisable skills and visuals don't make it look standard fare and basic, even if at its core it's still MMO combat mechanics. Then again, you also had people comment upon GW2 combat after they played it saying that it felt like the usual typical, standard MMO combat gameplay.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That's not what I mean. Yes you can move. But it doesn't matter. In GW2, a mage can cast a fire field and if a Ranger shoots arrows through it, they catch fire and do additional fire damage. I mean, wow, how cool is THAT!? GW2 has tons of powers that interact with each other, with the physics of the world and the positioning. Like you can smash stuff and it drops on mobs asf. It's just so different from the EQ-era combat of TOR. In SWTOR so far I have seen NOTHING even remotely like this.
That's because when someone dislikes a game, they by default dislike and don't pay attention to the positive merits of that game. Some people work that way, their likes and dislikes color everything they perceive selectively. While in SWTOR the skills don't interact with eachother, SWTOR does use limited ragdoll physics, and the skills and combat shown look far from bland. As others also have reported.
And regarding the 10 rat quests: Didn't Bioware itself always tout out that in their game you NEVER make such non heroic stuff like "kill 10 rats"? I am just measuring them by their own saying. And reading reviews of the starter area from several magazines, many who played that starter area of TOR were quite underwhelmed about how generic the quests were and how mobs just stood there waiting. I am not making that up. While on the other hand every review about the starter areas of GW2 emphasized how cool and entertaining they were.
Wrong again. You only - and maybe predictably? - focus on the 1 or 2 reports that spoke badly about the quests, presumably because they fit your opinion better, so that's why those stuck in your mind, while blatantly ignoring the 20-30+ reports from magazines as well as normal players who were enthusiastic about SWTOR's changes in its questing.
I'm not making that up, I could look them all up for you, but can't be bothered to invest the time to do it. Maybe later, if I hit the mood.
Originally posted by theratmonkey
And I've seen some reviewers criticize the starting zones. But I've also seen most of them recant their comments either after spending more time playing the starting zones, or playing a newer version of it. Overall, people seem to like it, and you really can't deny that.
QFE.
Saying I disagree with things about TOR because I don't like it doesn't make sense. The same way I could say you disagree with me just because you don't like me. =P
I argue on what I see. *shrug* Take it or leave it. I don't say SWTOR is a bad game. But for the large amount of money and the big names involved it sure looks way too standard fare and basic, no matter how many times you label me a hater.
Only if you don't bother looking into the details.
Ok humor me. Where is TOR combat as interactive with environment and between the various powers of a group as the GW2 examples?
It's not, but that does not make combat standard fare and basic. The fact auto attack is removed puts a large dent in the standard combat arguement. Your not beating on 1 enemy for 2 light years. You're taking down multiple enemies fairly quickly which increases the pace and feel of combat.
It may not have all the interaction GW2 combat offers but it is far more engaging than the standard which is pretty much beat on a single mole for 5 mins.
Dude, you can't start a post like this and not expect a flame war. The bottom line is people know all there is to know and they are bored of reading the same info over and over again.
Sooo, like the natural cycle of any MMORPG.com game forum, it goes HYPE-LOVE-HATE repeat.
That's not what I mean. Yes you can move. But it doesn't matter. In GW2, a mage can cast a fire field and if a Ranger shoots arrows through it, they catch fire and do additional fire damage. I mean, wow, how cool is THAT!? GW2 has tons of powers that interact with each other, with the physics of the world and the positioning. Like you can smash stuff and it drops on mobs asf. It's just so different from the EQ-era combat of TOR. In SWTOR so far I have seen NOTHING even remotely like this.
That's because when someone dislikes a game, they by default dislike and don't pay attention to the positive merits of that game. Some people work that way, their likes and dislikes color everything they perceive selectively. While in SWTOR the skills don't interact with eachother, SWTOR does use limited ragdoll physics, and the skills and combat shown look far from bland. As others also have reported.
And regarding the 10 rat quests: Didn't Bioware itself always tout out that in their game you NEVER make such non heroic stuff like "kill 10 rats"? I am just measuring them by their own saying. And reading reviews of the starter area from several magazines, many who played that starter area of TOR were quite underwhelmed about how generic the quests were and how mobs just stood there waiting. I am not making that up. While on the other hand every review about the starter areas of GW2 emphasized how cool and entertaining they were.
Wrong again. You only - and maybe predictably? - focus on the 1 or 2 reports that spoke badly about the quests, presumably because they fit your opinion better, so that's why those stuck in your mind, while blatantly ignoring the 20-30+ reports from magazines as well as normal players who were enthusiastic about SWTOR's changes in its questing.
I'm not making that up, I could look them all up for you, but can't be bothered to invest the time to do it. Maybe later, if I hit the mood.
Originally posted by theratmonkey
And I've seen some reviewers criticize the starting zones. But I've also seen most of them recant their comments either after spending more time playing the starting zones, or playing a newer version of it. Overall, people seem to like it, and you really can't deny that.
QFE.
Saying I disagree with things about TOR because I don't like it doesn't make sense. The same way I could say you disagree with me just because you don't like me. =P
I argue on what I see. *shrug* Take it or leave it. I don't say SWTOR is a bad game. But for the large amount of money and the big names involved it sure looks way too standard fare and basic, no matter how many times you label me a hater.
Only if you don't bother looking into the details.
Ok humor me. Where is TOR combat as interactive with environment and between the various powers of a group as the GW2 examples?
It's not, but that does not make combat standard fare and basic. The fact auto attack is removed puts a large dent in the standard combat arguement. Your not beating on 1 enemy for 2 light years. You're taking down multiple enemies fairly quickly which increases the pace and feel of combat.
It may not have all the interaction GW2 combat offers but it is far more engaging than the standard which is pretty much beat on a single mole for 5 mins.
While minor you do have the ability to blow up barrels to harm enemys, also a pushback will actually push the enemy back allowing someone else to get in between, no i don't mean just knocking them down and you backing up, i mean actually knocking them across the terrain. While you don't consistantly dodge the attacks or shoot arrows through fire to get fire arrows. IT's hardly standard fare either.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
The Only way you can change a players mind is by letting them decide and by having them play the game for lets say a week or so. and have them experience the game.. one cant force some one to like the game.. but some people just miss out on lot of the good because they were less/not informed..
asking for one sentence on why people no longer care for this game is being a little unfair.
i can think of many sentences as to why this game has lost its appeal. and here are a few!!
1/ space is not one of the major aspects of the game and shows itself more as a mini game rather than an alternative play style in the new starwars game.
2/ comapions doing the gathering and crafting and removing the need for grouping in an mmo enviroment, this basically takes the mmo status away form this game type and makes it soloable.
3/ story driven arcs and charecter progression, works a bit like a guided tunnel system where you must follow quests inorder to reach other areas of the game and then aquire the all to familiar and all too linear and genric quest rewards.
4/ end game, there shouldnt be end game in an mmo they have used the old old boreing excuse for endgame of pvp arenas
5/ it looks like wow, very cartoon like graphics
/6 the game emphasises a very single player aspect about it again not something an mmo should be ilustrateing.
7/ false advertiseing useing cenematic footage in hd which does not represent ingame play there for over hyping the game.
8/ its nothing we havnt already seen tried played or tested ove the last 10 years or so, nothing new about it and the current starwars mmo has more depth and content and a better starwars experience overall as its based off the orriginal starwars series and not the kotor sub series.
in short and one sentence the game is just rubbish and rushed due to EA being at the driving seat, mmo's dont work with story driven content sure there are plenty out there but story in an mmo isnt the driveing force, that should be reserved for the mmo community the people that play the games. swtor is lacking drastically in this area.
its a kids game, just like wow!!! bright light and flashy images. linear game play useing ideas which are 20+ years old (tunnel shooter) its just crap!!
Dude, you can't start a post like this and not expect a flame war. The bottom line is people know all there is to know and they are bored of reading the same info over and over again.
Sooo, like the natural cycle of any MMORPG.com game forum, it goes HYPE-LOVE-HATE repeat.
Most of the haters will be playing this game!
and you sound like a guy that willingly accepts what he see's and believe it to be gospal!!! and that my friend is the main problem with todays mmo's!! people are too willing to just accept the shoddy craftsmenship thats being sold to us.. abit like ikea furniture. mass produced in exactly the same way and packaged for easy storage and easy pruchase.
swtor is indeed a fine example of shoddy craftsmenship.. a perfect example of developers selling us things we already have over and over again but useing diffrent labels to make us think its something new and unique..
swtor is the exact same as ebvery other story driven theme park such as wow lord of the rings and so on, nothing new at all and the current existing starwars mmo is far supperior in s tyle play and content as well as setting and genrally how every aspect of the game works, it offers a far better starwars experience than this kotor junk thats being pasted on our foreheads.
im a craftsmen, and if i ever tried to sell the same thing made by some one else to a customer and stick my label on it i would have all kinds of tradeing standards issues around my neck!!!
mmo's today are not new and unique they are all the same and they all walk in the shadow of wow and i do say its a pretty crappy shadow too. from a c rappy game. wow sucks and everything that follows its mechanics also sucks swtor is going to suck but i guess ill have to let all you kotor and wow fans figure that out for your selves.
Comments
And why shouldn´t they do it there own way , they stated it will HAVE STORY ! (meaning bioware kind of story , wheel and romance and fluff)
Next they said it will BE WOWCLONE (so best elements of wow mixed with there story system ) people still didn´t get it .
I mean sure we all want to see what it is all about , but did they ever stated publicly different ?
No they shouldn´t have said a wowclone but a MMO CLONE , but since majority think MMO only there favorite MMO .
It wouldn´t have worked , now basically if people had a bit of sense , they knew already what was coming .
Now I am happy they are now finally finishing the MMO part , without losing the bioware part (story companions and romance)
Thats the kind of MMO I want , that and tons of bioware fans will play it , Mass Effect system while it looks like a shootemup , first scared me off , but after trying the dumb down shoot emup system , I love it , its simply fast pace squad action (except on insanity) combining with bioware story .
Infact if people played Mass Effect , they would have known how this MMO going to be , instead of shootemup system a traditionally mmo style system .
And let say this , cause resident evil is horrible , it still profitable it is going into the 5th movie already .
And each movie brings in more money then the last , and always covers the production cost more then tripple .
So you see what mainstream screams it fails , still makes a huge profit with the fanbase .
Now if you are not happy with themepark development , you should support sandbox MMO and keep supporting it .
Till it earns enough money to make a sequel .
One sentence?
It's a conservative, backwater type of game design feeling more like a 5 year old MMORPG than anything modern, innovative or pushing the boundaries forward.
But, to give some details:
Your first quest in SWTOR as Sith Lord: Kill 10 bugs in a cellar... err dungeon. THATS the epic new story? Look at the first quest GW2 sends you to, against that epic huge beast! Nothing I have seen in SWTOR gameplay is epic. The visuals are just ok but lightyears away from the great look of GW2. Nothing in the combat model is anything else than the same old EQ/WOW model. See how powers interact in GW2, how positioning and moving is important, and compare that to the stoneage "stand still and hack your powers" EQ/WOW combat from SWTOR. Outside of the fact it has a Star Wars story in it, nothing sofar is anything but very lackluster and basic. Not bad, but way behind anything to aspire to have cool and innovative gameplay AT ALL.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
LOL the 10 rats kill , honestly versus the AFK kill .
Atleast the 10 rats will kill you , while the other one you go afk ...
Seriously people should go do there own thing in life , cause for every merit in a system as great as GW2 , i can easily make a super counter merit ,
And mine stings much more , then the basic stuff of lesser people imagination .
You don´t like the game fine , It was not meant for you ! .
Accept it and move on .
wow age 2
Generation P
It's too bad that people believe DA2 has any effect on TOR. Oh wells!
And GW does not start with a "kill a giant rock boss". For humans, you start out killing the centuars. A certain amount must be killed, then a centaur boss shows, you defeat him, then you get a big rock (ie dragon). I also bet at no point in GW or any of it's DE do you have to kill 10 (or some other number) of mobs to complete a quest/part of a DE. Right?
That is not the first quest in TOR. Kill 10 bugs in the temple is an optional quest that you are given automatically when entering. It is just something you can do while making your way to the actual quest and be rewarded for it a little more than just 40XP per kill.
This is the first quest as a sith warrior. Replacing your training blade, not go kill 10 bugs. Notice when he kills the first bug outside the temple it says "BONUS KILL".
Nice rhetorical fallacy by the OP. Use an unproven, unsubstantiated assertion to beg a question.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I just checked in GW2 forums and apparently not everyone feels the same way about QW2.
QW2 Huge Disapointment
"EVERY and I mean every landscape seems to be rather dull and uninspired. The game seems to suffer from a rather LOW draw distance, especially with terrain. So many videos you see blue fog fade in from a not so far distance, I mean *blue* fog really?!?!? I really can't forgive a newer game that has this low of a terrain draw distance.
(compare to SWTOR that has great terrain draw distance "
" The combat seems to be your fairly typical fantasy MMO combat except with a couple of adjustments to make it seem different like dodge and the possibility of something simple like an arrow being affected by someone elses fire.... nothing "revolutionary" about it."
" The VO work is presented horribly. When VO happens, the game cuts to a screen with a picture and the person you're talking to and just STAYS on that screen the whole time and you get to just watch the NPC's lips move..... BORING. "
No thanks guys. You can keep waiting for GW2. I'll stick to TOR.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
As expected, clearly you haven't been paying attention to the video footage and reports. You can use most of your skills on the move. Personally I think that every MMO gamer that could stomach the lacklustre gameplay aspects of SWG just because they were stuck up into sandbox features, is bound to be biased to some degree against themepark MMO's because it's not the sandbox features that they're really looking for.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Was this directed at what i said? Because i was defending TOR
That's not what I mean. Yes you can move. But it doesn't matter. In GW2, a mage can cast a fire field and if a Ranger shoots arrows through it, they catch fire and do additional fire damage. I mean, wow, how cool is THAT!? GW2 has tons of powers that interact with each other, with the physics of the world and the positioning. Like you can smash stuff and it drops on mobs asf. It's just so different from the EQ-era combat of TOR. In SWTOR so far I have seen NOTHING even remotely like this.
And regarding the 10 rat quests: Didn't Bioware itself always tout out that in their game you NEVER make such non heroic stuff like "kill 10 rats"? I am just measuring them by their own saying. And reading reviews of the starter area from several magazines, many who played that starter area of TOR were quite underwhelmed about how generic the quests were and how mobs just stood there waiting. I am not making that up. While on the other hand every review about the starter areas of GW2 emphasized how cool and entertaining they were.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
It doesn't really bother me that the combat in SWTOR is "unoriginal", or not innovative, as long as it's engaging enough to keep my interest. That's the real deal breaker here, not a bunch of silly interactive powers.
And I'm not knocking what Arenanet is doing with GW2. On the Contrary, they seem to be doing some cool things, but that doesn't mean shit if the game can't keep my interest. I've played my share of MMORPG's that have been said to be "original and innovative" and have completely failed to be a good, enjoyable game.
And I've seen some reviewers criticize the starting zones. But I've also seen most of them recant their comments either after spending more time playing the starting zones, or playing a newer version of it. Overall, people seem to like it, and you really can't deny that.
I guess my point is: I don't care if a game totally original, I just care if it's well designed. SWTOR seems to be well designed.
Groovy.
Wrong again. You only - and maybe predictably? - focus on the 1 or 2 reports that spoke badly about the quests, presumably because they fit your opinion better, so that's why those stuck in your mind, while blatantly ignoring the 20-30+ reports from magazines as well as normal players who were enthusiastic about SWTOR's changes in its questing.
I'm not making that up, I could look them all up for you, but can't be bothered to invest the time to do it. Maybe later, if I hit the mood.
QFE.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Saying I disagree with things about TOR because I don't like it doesn't make sense. The same way I could say you disagree with me just because you don't like me. =P
I argue on what I see. *shrug* Take it or leave it. I don't say SWTOR is a bad game. But for the large amount of money and the big names involved it sure looks way too standard fare and basic, no matter how many times you label me a hater.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Only if you don't bother looking into the details.
Ok humor me. Where is TOR combat as interactive with environment and between the various powers of a group as the GW2 examples?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
My issue is with the fact when people only see what they want to see and only hear what they like to hear, and ignore all the rest. If someone dislikes a game or how it looks or gameplay features, fine. If they feel the need to make it into some kind of vindication or justification of their own opinion and taste using arguments like 'many that played the game felt the same way', then they should at least stick to the facts. So far, player impressions and reports point towards the overall majority of them liking what they played and saw.
If SWTOR isn't what you're looking for, no problem there, tastes differ.
Wrong reasoning. He didn't say that the details would be exactly the same as GW2 details.
I'd say that the limited ragdoll physics, the synchronised combat animation and the typical Star Wars recognisable skills and visuals don't make it look standard fare and basic, even if at its core it's still MMO combat mechanics. Then again, you also had people comment upon GW2 combat after they played it saying that it felt like the usual typical, standard MMO combat gameplay.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It's not, but that does not make combat standard fare and basic. The fact auto attack is removed puts a large dent in the standard combat arguement. Your not beating on 1 enemy for 2 light years. You're taking down multiple enemies fairly quickly which increases the pace and feel of combat.
It may not have all the interaction GW2 combat offers but it is far more engaging than the standard which is pretty much beat on a single mole for 5 mins.
Honestly, if it wasn't because I have a 4yo computer I wouldn't be following this game.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Dude, you can't start a post like this and not expect a flame war. The bottom line is people know all there is to know and they are bored of reading the same info over and over again.
Sooo, like the natural cycle of any MMORPG.com game forum, it goes HYPE-LOVE-HATE repeat.
Most of the haters will be playing this game!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAmbryZealot/
While minor you do have the ability to blow up barrels to harm enemys, also a pushback will actually push the enemy back allowing someone else to get in between, no i don't mean just knocking them down and you backing up, i mean actually knocking them across the terrain. While you don't consistantly dodge the attacks or shoot arrows through fire to get fire arrows. IT's hardly standard fare either.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
The Only way you can change a players mind is by letting them decide and by having them play the game for lets say a week or so. and have them experience the game.. one cant force some one to like the game.. but some people just miss out on lot of the good because they were less/not informed..
asking for one sentence on why people no longer care for this game is being a little unfair.
i can think of many sentences as to why this game has lost its appeal. and here are a few!!
1/ space is not one of the major aspects of the game and shows itself more as a mini game rather than an alternative play style in the new starwars game.
2/ comapions doing the gathering and crafting and removing the need for grouping in an mmo enviroment, this basically takes the mmo status away form this game type and makes it soloable.
3/ story driven arcs and charecter progression, works a bit like a guided tunnel system where you must follow quests inorder to reach other areas of the game and then aquire the all to familiar and all too linear and genric quest rewards.
4/ end game, there shouldnt be end game in an mmo they have used the old old boreing excuse for endgame of pvp arenas
5/ it looks like wow, very cartoon like graphics
/6 the game emphasises a very single player aspect about it again not something an mmo should be ilustrateing.
7/ false advertiseing useing cenematic footage in hd which does not represent ingame play there for over hyping the game.
8/ its nothing we havnt already seen tried played or tested ove the last 10 years or so, nothing new about it and the current starwars mmo has more depth and content and a better starwars experience overall as its based off the orriginal starwars series and not the kotor sub series.
in short and one sentence the game is just rubbish and rushed due to EA being at the driving seat, mmo's dont work with story driven content sure there are plenty out there but story in an mmo isnt the driveing force, that should be reserved for the mmo community the people that play the games. swtor is lacking drastically in this area.
its a kids game, just like wow!!! bright light and flashy images. linear game play useing ideas which are 20+ years old (tunnel shooter) its just crap!!
and you sound like a guy that willingly accepts what he see's and believe it to be gospal!!! and that my friend is the main problem with todays mmo's!! people are too willing to just accept the shoddy craftsmenship thats being sold to us.. abit like ikea furniture. mass produced in exactly the same way and packaged for easy storage and easy pruchase.
swtor is indeed a fine example of shoddy craftsmenship.. a perfect example of developers selling us things we already have over and over again but useing diffrent labels to make us think its something new and unique..
swtor is the exact same as ebvery other story driven theme park such as wow lord of the rings and so on, nothing new at all and the current existing starwars mmo is far supperior in s tyle play and content as well as setting and genrally how every aspect of the game works, it offers a far better starwars experience than this kotor junk thats being pasted on our foreheads.
im a craftsmen, and if i ever tried to sell the same thing made by some one else to a customer and stick my label on it i would have all kinds of tradeing standards issues around my neck!!!
mmo's today are not new and unique they are all the same and they all walk in the shadow of wow and i do say its a pretty crappy shadow too. from a c rappy game. wow sucks and everything that follows its mechanics also sucks swtor is going to suck but i guess ill have to let all you kotor and wow fans figure that out for your selves.
you cant teach experience!!!!