actually you can play a tank mage if you want, you just have to be creative.
Term Tank means holding aggro, Term mage means using spells at range, you can do it, just mix things up
I play a Tank Mage in pvp
so how's that "holding aggro" in pvp working out!
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I have played many MMORPGs and I must say that everything from user interface to class-based roles (healer, DPS, Tank) this game has, has been done by other MMORPGs so there is almost nothing new here.
Only things worth mentioning is the flexible soul system which does not able you to mix any classes (a tank is still a tank and cannot be a tank/mage) which is fun for maybe a couple of hours before you realise it is simply the same standard tank, dps, healing abilities spread out on several sub-classes with alot of redundancy.
Rifts is also a novelty but one that also wears out quickly. Basically all of them are random mob spawns that grow in dificulty depending on several factors. But from what I have experienced, they always despawn, no matter what. Seems there is a timer of sort.
Other than that this game is simply a equivalent of another generic Cola, except Coca Cola (=WoW) is the one that most people will buy and most people will go back to once the novelty of a new fresh drink has worn of.
PS: Yes this is a counter to the other post here. {mod edit}
Even the Rift system and the Souls aren't new. Rifts have been in Ultima Online, Darkfall, Asheron's Call, Warhammer, AND Tabula Rasa. The class system is like a dummied down version of old MMO class systems (which is still a step up over other MMOs)
Don't call this MMO generic, call it what it is... a WoW clone with no features to call its own.
Sorry but...
if you're using that logic, then WoW is an EQ clone, and Rift is just another EQ clone.
Rift brings more "new" to the table over WoW than WoW did over EQ. Some people are burnt out on MMOs because of WoW and are blaming Rift for being too much of an MMO.
Er.. WoW was an EQ clone. The only difference is, WoW took what EQ had and made it simpler, smaller, and generally removed features. Rift, is a WoW clone, not an EQ clone, keeping with the same quest based leveling as WoW.
Rift brought NOTHING new to the table, I'm sorry. Neither did WoW. Rift does have mechanics that generally arent in EVERY MMO (Rifts) but they are by no means new or unique. Tabula Rasa, Warhammer, UO, AC, Darkfall, not new.
And no, people aren't burned out of MMOs and blaming Rift for being too much of an MMO. They're burned out of woW and blaming Rift for BEING A WOW CLONE. It's very simple. Rift could have tried to be unique, but it didn't.
To those saying innovation doesn't sell, then how did EQ become a success? DAoC? AC? SWG? UO? By innovating. How did LotRO, AoC, Aion, (list goes on) fail? By cloning WoW.
So it's a clone of WoW... except that it does some things differently than WoW. What? A clone means a carbon copy.
Also your assumption that newer games "failed" where the older games were successful is extremely skewed. As much as I love several of the older games, the newer "failed" games still grabbed the attention of more players, made a lot more money than the older games, and despite having "failed" still have more players now than the older games do.
Judging a game based upon its population is a flawed FLAWED way of tracking success. Age of Conan was a failure because they got back less money than they spent. Most of the teams associated with Age of Conan closed down and went bankrupt. Does it have more subs than Darkfall? Yup. Difference is, Darkfall is growing and turning a profit. Age of Conan is not.
And no, a WoW clone, by general concenus, has always described games that are almost identical to WoW in terms of overarching gameplay mechanics, simplicity, over use of instances, quest based leveling, all that jazz. Rift even has the WoW UI (now thats just sad). WoW clones, almost as a rule, usually have 1 or 2 mechanics for "flavor" that they can call their own, but they're surface features that just try to hide the clone within. Age of Conan had its graphics and "combo" combat system. Aion had wings. LotRO had cut scenes. Rift has rifts. It does almost nothing substatially different. It is a WoW clone.
You've still not answered the multi-million dollar question.
What could Trion have done or not done with Rift so it would not have been branded a WoW clone by yourself and others
By not copying WoW?
By not making quest based leveling the primary way to level in the game?
By not making their quests the same as WoW's?
By not making their PvP the same as WoW's?
By not making their UI the same as WoW's?
By not making their instances the same as WoW?
By not making their dungeons the same as WoW?
By not making the progression goal the same as WoW? (raids)
By not making their death penalty the same as WoW's?
Is it really so hard to come up with a unique design? Old MMOs managed it just fine despite having less tech and less developers. There were many great games before WoW (most consider greater than post WoW games) so if they really wanted to clone something they could have at least cloned the old ideas and tried to pretend they were unique.
there are so many great games out there that do not bring anything new to the table. why are they great? because they figure out how to be fun. add in the word 'opinion' and someone might dislike those 'fun, great games'. RIFT, imo, is fun. But when was the last 'revolutionary' game? And also....a lot of casual gamers will never do sanbod for some reason, which could be something new to them.
what do you play then?? What else is there to play until SW:TOR or GW2, MMORPG wise, and this is excluding Pay to win, which are pointless games in the first place. (that includes LOTRO)
I have played many MMORPGs and I must say that everything from user interface to class-based roles (healer, DPS, Tank) this game has, has been done by other MMORPGs so there is almost nothing new here.
Taking it from the top, Rift never claimed to be offering a new style of MMO. Instead, they aimed to take what they considered the best ideas of other MMOs and implement them. Which is, as you state here, what they did.
Only things worth mentioning is the flexible soul system which does not able you to mix any classes (a tank is still a tank and cannot be a tank/mage) which is fun for maybe a couple of hours before you realise it is simply the same standard tank, dps, healing abilities spread out on several sub-classes with alot of redundancy.
You leave out the options for warrior DPS and support. You also leave out the options for all of the other professions. Compared to cookie cutter classes with set progressions, this is a big improvement and allows for a lot of class customization. As for your "warrior-mage" (an oh-so-original-archetype) did you even glance at the Riftblade before writing this?
Rifts is also a novelty but one that also wears out quickly. Basically all of them are random mob spawns that grow in dificulty depending on several factors. But from what I have experienced, they always despawn, no matter what. Seems there is a timer of sort.
Rifts are fun, tend to bring groups together, and tend to facilitate social gaming. The creatures that roam despawn, but the ones that conquer towns never do. You have to kill them off.
Other than that this game is simply a equivalent of another generic Cola, except Coca Cola (=WoW) is the one that most people will buy and most people will go back to once the novelty of a new fresh drink has worn of.
WoW has the graphics of a Warner Brothers cartoon and, by description, a truly gods-awful endgame. I was bored inside of 5 minutes with WoW so I have never experienced the endgame (thankfully). Not all of us want to play WoW for very obvious reasons.
So here we are again, with yet another list of superficial at best and blatantly misleading at worst criticisms about a game you played for 2 hours or so. I at least admit I didn't like WoW from the very beginning and don't know much about it. You present yourself as having some experience with the game, which as someone who has been playing Rift since beta 5, I can tell you that you don't.
PS: Yes this is a counter to the other post here. {mod edit}
Judging a game based upon its population is a flawed FLAWED way of tracking success. Age of Conan was a failure because they got back less money than they spent. Most of the teams associated with Age of Conan closed down and went bankrupt. Does it have more subs than Darkfall? Yup. Difference is, Darkfall is growing and turning a profit. Age of Conan is not.
And no, a WoW clone, by general concenus, has always described games that are almost identical to WoW in terms of overarching gameplay mechanics, simplicity, over use of instances, quest based leveling, all that jazz. Rift even has the WoW UI (now thats just sad). WoW clones, almost as a rule, usually have 1 or 2 mechanics for "flavor" that they can call their own, but they're surface features that just try to hide the clone within. Age of Conan had its graphics and "combo" combat system. Aion had wings. LotRO had cut scenes. Rift has rifts. It does almost nothing substatially different. It is a WoW clone.
You've still not answered the multi-million dollar question.
What could Trion have done or not done with Rift so it would not have been branded a WoW clone by yourself and others
By not copying WoW?
By not making quest based leveling the primary way to level in the game?
By not making their quests the same as WoW's?
By not making their PvP the same as WoW's?
By not making their UI the same as WoW's?
By not making their instances the same as WoW?
By not making their dungeons the same as WoW?
By not making the progression goal the same as WoW? (raids)
By not making their death penalty the same as WoW's?
Is it really so hard to come up with a unique design? Old MMOs managed it just fine despite having less tech and less developers. There were many great games before WoW (most consider greater than post WoW games) so if they really wanted to clone something they could have at least cloned the old ideas and tried to pretend they were unique.
Thats more of a dodge than an answer. Its easy to say "By not ..." but that really doesn't help teh argument. How about examples of what they could have done instead? Like saying "Instead of having a death penalty similar to WoW, they could have gone with making the character having to save their progression through binding their soul or buying insurance. If they died without doing said bind or purchasing said insurance then they would lose all progression (such as XP gained) since the last time they saved."
As for older games being able to come up with unique designs... well seeing as those games were pretty much the only games in the early years of the genre, they really didn't have much to copy from nor much to be compaired to. Now that the genre has been around for a while and many games have come and gone it will get harder and harder to be unique, especially if you don't want to risk losing out on players (because the worst part of this genre is the player and how nit-picky we are). If a developer goes 100% unique in design, players will bitch and moan that it isn't like game X. If a dev retools features that players liked from other games, players will bitch and moan that its just like game X. Its a viscious damned if they do, damned if they don't scenario.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Judging a game based upon its population is a flawed FLAWED way of tracking success. Age of Conan was a failure because they got back less money than they spent. Most of the teams associated with Age of Conan closed down and went bankrupt. Does it have more subs than Darkfall? Yup. Difference is, Darkfall is growing and turning a profit. Age of Conan is not.
And no, a WoW clone, by general concenus, has always described games that are almost identical to WoW in terms of overarching gameplay mechanics, simplicity, over use of instances, quest based leveling, all that jazz. Rift even has the WoW UI (now thats just sad). WoW clones, almost as a rule, usually have 1 or 2 mechanics for "flavor" that they can call their own, but they're surface features that just try to hide the clone within. Age of Conan had its graphics and "combo" combat system. Aion had wings. LotRO had cut scenes. Rift has rifts. It does almost nothing substatially different. It is a WoW clone.
You've still not answered the multi-million dollar question.
What could Trion have done or not done with Rift so it would not have been branded a WoW clone by yourself and others
By not copying WoW?
By not making quest based leveling the primary way to level in the game?
By not making their quests the same as WoW's?
By not making their PvP the same as WoW's?
By not making their UI the same as WoW's?
By not making their instances the same as WoW?
By not making their dungeons the same as WoW?
By not making the progression goal the same as WoW? (raids)
By not making their death penalty the same as WoW's?
Is it really so hard to come up with a unique design? Old MMOs managed it just fine despite having less tech and less developers. There were many great games before WoW (most consider greater than post WoW games) so if they really wanted to clone something they could have at least cloned the old ideas and tried to pretend they were unique.
Thats more of a dodge than an answer. Its easy to say "By not ..." but that really doesn't help teh argument. How about examples of what they could have done instead? Like saying "Instead of having a death penalty similar to WoW, they could have gone with making the character having to save their progression through binding their soul or buying insurance. If they died without doing said bind or purchasing said insurance then they would lose all progression (such as XP gained) since the last time they saved."
As for older games being able to come up with unique designs... well seeing as those games were pretty much the only games in the early years of the genre, they really didn't have much to copy from nor much to be compaired to. Now that the genre has been around for a while and many games have come and gone it will get harder and harder to be unique, especially if you don't want to risk losing out on players (because the worst part of this genre is the player and how nit-picky we are). If a developer goes 100% unique in design, players will bitch and moan that it isn't like game X. If a dev retools features that players liked from other games, players will bitch and moan that its just like game X. Its a viscious damned if they do, damned if they don't scenario.
a lot of it is down to the UI.. WoW's UI is fairly fluid, it's optimised (barring personal preferences) to be easy to use etc.. which means its inevitable that any game that uses similar UI mechanics is going to draw the 'its a clone' accusation.. but unless you want to radically create a new UI.. and bearing in mind how well that worked for Squenix, in their latest FF MMO... then its a risk that is probably best avoided.. i would put a fair number of the 'clone' accusations down to poor understanding of how MMO's work... or just repeating things others have said... but.. even so.. i know the game is a clone.. i just think that its one of its strengths, because although some of the mechanics are similar enough to be recognised, it means that you can pretty much jump into the game without having to wade through a batch of tutorials, and 'relearn' how to walk etc.. the game is not WoW. just from playing it for the last 3 weeks or so i've discovered that much at least, i still havent got anywhere near the 'endgame' but if theres one thing i'm really happy with, is the fact that the game isnt about being able to solo everything, right from the off, you get people grouping up to do things, and.. have a lot of fun.. the grouping mechanics will probably draw some criticism, but its unintrusive and easy to use, and if it encourages people to make more friends then.. isnt that what an MMO should be about? i've played too many games that were little more than single player games with the option for multiplayer, little or no social interraction.. Rift.. so far is giving me some hope that players will start moving away from the 'its all about ME' to its really about 'US' kind of mentality.. the best games imo, are the ones with good social dynamics.. which is why my favourite game (post SWG) is Eve Online.. early indications for me is that Rift will be added to my 'list'
The WoW UI is pretty much a derivative of the LUA mod community and not a Blizzard creation. In pretty much the past six years the Blizzard developers have been copying and incorporating the most popular UI addons used in WoW.
So Rift is using what the most talented modders have managed to create over the years in WoW. Kudos to the modders and kudos to Rift for having a functional UI from launch day (unlike the other MMO that had to wait for six years to see a proper company made UI).
what do you play then?? What else is there to play until SW:TOR or GW2, MMORPG wise, and this is excluding Pay to win, which are pointless games in the first place. (that includes LOTRO)
I have played many MMORPGs and I must say that everything from user interface to class-based roles (healer, DPS, Tank) this game has, has been done by other MMORPGs so there is almost nothing new here.
Only things worth mentioning is the flexible soul system which does not able you to mix any classes (a tank is still a tank and cannot be a tank/mage) which is fun for maybe a couple of hours before you realise it is simply the same standard tank, dps, healing abilities spread out on several sub-classes with alot of redundancy.
Rifts is also a novelty but one that also wears out quickly. Basically all of them are random mob spawns that grow in dificulty depending on several factors. But from what I have experienced, they always despawn, no matter what. Seems there is a timer of sort.
Other than that this game is simply a equivalent of another generic Cola, except Coca Cola (=WoW) is the one that most people will buy and most people will go back to once the novelty of a new fresh drink has worn of.
PS: Yes this is a counter to the other post here. {mod edit}
Useless post, more like an opinion. How can this make the game itself very bad? Think what you are trying to say before writing it down. If Rift is so WoW to you types and it is the whole reason that makes it very bad... then what WoW is? I mean Rift is good game. It looks good, plays good everything is done very well. Except maybe crafting (because i prefer more minigamish crafting). But overall, Rift is very good game despite what you people compare it. It's not very original i give you that but claiming that it is very bad is just plain wrong. I do however feel too that its wearing out quickly... but i hope they can fix that with the upcoming expansions and new content!
the best way to kill a troll is to FLAME ON! ...or with acid...
When I see threads like this I become worried for those holding out for GW2 or SWTOR. It is entirely possible that neither will be released this year. Both have gone very quiet latelyl. And both could be VERY dissapointing.
Ever head the saying "a bird in hand is better than two in the bush"?
The bird in hand is Rift. If you cannot take it for what it is (appreciate its good points) and have some fun with it, IF you can ONLY look forward to the two birds in the bush, then in my opinion you need to take a break from gaming.
What annoys me the most about the game is the misleading marketing.
In every video they make, they show rifts, invasions and conclude "this is rift". Ok, i was tricked, bought it, leveled to 50, let's see the endgame. Found out that almost no one is doing rifts (they are practically the same thing over and over again, becoming extremely boring, that combined with almost useless rewards for doing them) and the game becomes just WoW without content and Dungeon Finder.
When you clearly target a game at WoW's audience (people who left or are willing to leave WoW) you must bring to the table something seriously improved. For a lot of people, the heavily-appraised soul system with redundant skills and the random spawns they call "dynamic events" are not enough. Plus, they've started the heavy "nerfing" and "balancing" patches already. Got all of those in "that other game" tyvm.
I'm not sure what's misleading about it. In level 50 you have quite a few things that you can work on.
If we're talking PvP, then prestige 6 is a huge investment of time. I'd say it takes two months for someone semi-hardcore to get there and get all the tier 2 PvP gear. Especially if you're running in random groups like I do.
If we are talking PvE you have more things to work on. For a start, have you concluded with quests in a zones? I've still haven't touched an entire zone and I still need to move the epiq quest line away from Freemarch.
There are societies in every zone that you can gain reputation with them. Some can be done via dailies, some via running dungeons, some via questing.
The dungeons themselves are very interesting and challenging. They are also different than their normal counterparts with added abilities on same bosses and added bosses.
Those dungeons give tokens that you can convert into expert group or raid rift summoning tokens. Have you done any of those with your group?
Then there is the raid itself.
And of cousre we'll see about the new content introduced in two days from now.
And these are probably the big stuff. There are more stuff, maybe minor to me, like hunting artifacts or doing puzzles etc.
I'm not sure what's misleading about it. In level 50 you have quite a few things that you can work on.
If we're talking PvP, then prestige 6 is a huge investment of time. I'd say it takes two months for someone semi-hardcore to get there and get all the tier 2 PvP gear. Especially if you're running in random groups like I do.
If we are talking PvE you have more things to work on. For a start, have you concluded with quests in a zones? I've still haven't touched an entire zone and I still need to move the epiq quest line away from Freemarch.
There are societies in every zone that you can gain reputation with them. Some can be done via dailies, some via running dungeons, some via questing.
The dungeons themselves are very interesting and challenging. They are also different than their normal counterparts with added abilities on same bosses and added bosses.
Those dungeons give tokens that you can convert into expert group or raid rift summoning tokens. Have you done any of those with your group?
Then there is the raid itself.
And of cousre we'll see about the new content introduced in two days from now.
And these are probably the big stuff. There are more stuff, maybe minor to me, like hunting artifacts or doing puzzles etc.
I have reached Prestige 3 and did the expert dungeons numerous times, and a decent ammont of "purple token' rifts.
What is misleading - misleading is that they emphasize the "dynamic content" , they try to sell the game based on that, while at endgame Rift is just a WoW-like gear grind, through the same means (instancing, warfronts, reputation quests). That is misleading.
If you watch the videos, you live under the impression that Rift is an open-world game, where people go together in massive raids against dynamic, cleverly designed ingame events, while in fact at cap level people wait in city for the next warfront or spam the chat for the next instance run.
You cannot aim for people who are bored / burnt out of WoW, try to sell them the same stuff in another wrapping and expect to be successful - that was my argument.
Rift is my game of choice right now. I enjoy the flexibility to decide if I want to do some questing, some PVP warfronts, or jump into a few Rifts. The difference between a minor and major rift around level 30 is tremendous, as major rifts really do require teamwork (as all spawns are elites) and not just random attacks at the mobs. The difference in rewards is significant too.
The best thing about Rift is that it is still new. People don't know every inch of the game (yet) and it is a great time to meet people and build relationships. To me, this is the single largest issue with joining a MMORPG late in its life; the majority of players (even on a newer server) have all "been there, done that".
I have reached Prestige 3 and did the expert dungeons numerous times, and a decent ammont of "purple token' rifts.
What is misleading - misleading is that they emphasize the "dynamic content" , they try to sell the game based on that, while at endgame Rift is just a WoW-like gear grind, through the same means (instancing, warfronts, reputation quests). That is misleading.
If you watch the videos, you live under the impression that Rift is an open-world game, where people go together in massive raids against dynamic, cleverly designed ingame events, while in fact at cap level people wait in city for the next warfront or spam the chat for the next instance run.
I suppose I'm not the target of your observation then because I didn't watch any videos and based my purchase decision on them. I played the beta, I liked the game, I subscribed. And that's probably how the majority of the current players got into the game, that and positive world of mouth.
Videos, reviews and marketing are for those not having used any of the above mentioned options, thus they need to rely on secnd hand experience from "experts".
Videos, reviews and marketing are for those not having used any of the above mentioned options, thus they need to rely on secnd hand experience from "experts".
I am talking about Trion's promotional videos. I was interested in what kind of game this was, what were the dev's ideas, what should i expect in the long term.
You did not have access to the endgame in beta. In a game where getting to cap level takes 3 weeks of casual play (and i am sure you figured this out in "betas"), i am interested in the endgame, not the leveling experience.
I had no clue that the endgame will be WoW with another skin, because i could not see it, and the only reliable source (Trion) marketed it as being totally different.
Well, thats what you get for buying something unidentified. I would say smartest thing whenever a game comes out is to wait a month at least. For people to fully explore the game, and you to watch forums instead, to see if the game is what was expected to be or a total failure. Still, it's your money, do whatever you want with it, im just sayin...
The sylvari ordered Rice n chicken in a bar. The waiter asked him: "exploded or intact?" He angrily answered: "Intact of course! Do you take me for a fool?"
It took me exactly 122 hours to reach level 50 and I had beta knowledge of the game up to level 42 (although on the other side of the conflict). This is pure time, no afks. I was logging out to afk due to PvP server and random mobs running around. Divide with the time you feel comfortable with to see how many weeks it'll take you to reach max. Add some extra time if you're not familiar with MMOs in general and some more if you haven't played in the beta.
All MMOs, even the ones that offer you extensive beta testing are a gamble. It's a gamble in two fronts. You don't know if you will like the game for an extended period of time (not talking about just the endgame) and you don't know if you'll form solid ties with the community that will make your stay easier (that's why I didn't stick with EVE).
On the positive side, the first major open world event is almost upon us and it's scheduled to launch before the first month is out. I'd say that's pretty responsive for Trion and it will be really great if they manage to hold such events in such short period of time, unlike other games where they suck or move their development team to other projects. Things are definitely looking good.
Well, thats what you get for buying something unidentified. I would say smartest thing whenever a game comes out is to wait a month at least. For people to fully explore the game, and you to watch forums instead, to see if the game is what was expected to be or a total failure. Still, it's your money, do whatever you want with it, im just sayin...
Yes you are totally right, it was a bad decision, based on the fact that i've thrived for a MMO for quite a while before Rift launched. On the other hand, now i feel they lied to me and they'll never get my sub again, no matter what content they put in. I do not trust them anymore.
Originally posted by Xasapis
On the positive side, the first major open world event is almost upon us and it's scheduled to launch before the first month is out. I'd say that's pretty responsive for Trion and it will be really great if they manage to hold such events in such short period of time, unlike other games where they suck or move their development team to other projects. Things are definitely looking good.
Unfortunately i find that maneuver just a way to keep people's sub's. Let's hope i'm wrong.
You forget that not everyone is from WoW. I tried WoW out for a couple of months years ago to see what all people are talking about. That game seemed very dull and boring with awful art style. Rift, on the contrary is fun for me to play, and offers plenty to do. To each his own I guess but it's pointless to make all your arguments based on WoW.
I'm EQ/EQ2 person myself and, yes, I'm really tired of dwarves and elves and I'm 99,9% sure that Rift is my last high fantasy MMO. Will play it exactly as long as the game is fun.
I did not say that everyone is from WoW. I've said that Trion evidently and aggressively marketed the game aiming for the WoW population and promising something different, while it's not like this.
Comments
so how's that "holding aggro" in pvp working out!
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
By not copying WoW?
By not making quest based leveling the primary way to level in the game?
By not making their quests the same as WoW's?
By not making their PvP the same as WoW's?
By not making their UI the same as WoW's?
By not making their instances the same as WoW?
By not making their dungeons the same as WoW?
By not making the progression goal the same as WoW? (raids)
By not making their death penalty the same as WoW's?
Is it really so hard to come up with a unique design? Old MMOs managed it just fine despite having less tech and less developers. There were many great games before WoW (most consider greater than post WoW games) so if they really wanted to clone something they could have at least cloned the old ideas and tried to pretend they were unique.
there are so many great games out there that do not bring anything new to the table. why are they great? because they figure out how to be fun. add in the word 'opinion' and someone might dislike those 'fun, great games'. RIFT, imo, is fun. But when was the last 'revolutionary' game? And also....a lot of casual gamers will never do sanbod for some reason, which could be something new to them.
Darkfall, EverQuest?
I'm not sure how you playing the game, at most, a month longer than him somehow makes your opinion superior and his obsolete.
Why do so many people fall upon the lack of an argument that is: "You've obviously never played the game if you have [insert problem here] with it."
It's not a particularly deep and complex game, and neither was WoW.
.. But in a good way.
Thats more of a dodge than an answer. Its easy to say "By not ..." but that really doesn't help teh argument. How about examples of what they could have done instead? Like saying "Instead of having a death penalty similar to WoW, they could have gone with making the character having to save their progression through binding their soul or buying insurance. If they died without doing said bind or purchasing said insurance then they would lose all progression (such as XP gained) since the last time they saved."
As for older games being able to come up with unique designs... well seeing as those games were pretty much the only games in the early years of the genre, they really didn't have much to copy from nor much to be compaired to. Now that the genre has been around for a while and many games have come and gone it will get harder and harder to be unique, especially if you don't want to risk losing out on players (because the worst part of this genre is the player and how nit-picky we are). If a developer goes 100% unique in design, players will bitch and moan that it isn't like game X. If a dev retools features that players liked from other games, players will bitch and moan that its just like game X. Its a viscious damned if they do, damned if they don't scenario.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I would like to remind everybody that canceling a subscription is easy.
Take what you will from this game, I'll admit it is a welcome reprieve from the slowness of 2010 but it's only a gulp. Better things are yet to come.
What does this all mean for the future of Rift? Only time will tell...
a lot of it is down to the UI.. WoW's UI is fairly fluid, it's optimised (barring personal preferences) to be easy to use etc.. which means its inevitable that any game that uses similar UI mechanics is going to draw the 'its a clone' accusation.. but unless you want to radically create a new UI.. and bearing in mind how well that worked for Squenix, in their latest FF MMO... then its a risk that is probably best avoided.. i would put a fair number of the 'clone' accusations down to poor understanding of how MMO's work... or just repeating things others have said... but.. even so.. i know the game is a clone.. i just think that its one of its strengths, because although some of the mechanics are similar enough to be recognised, it means that you can pretty much jump into the game without having to wade through a batch of tutorials, and 'relearn' how to walk etc.. the game is not WoW. just from playing it for the last 3 weeks or so i've discovered that much at least, i still havent got anywhere near the 'endgame' but if theres one thing i'm really happy with, is the fact that the game isnt about being able to solo everything, right from the off, you get people grouping up to do things, and.. have a lot of fun.. the grouping mechanics will probably draw some criticism, but its unintrusive and easy to use, and if it encourages people to make more friends then.. isnt that what an MMO should be about? i've played too many games that were little more than single player games with the option for multiplayer, little or no social interraction.. Rift.. so far is giving me some hope that players will start moving away from the 'its all about ME' to its really about 'US' kind of mentality.. the best games imo, are the ones with good social dynamics.. which is why my favourite game (post SWG) is Eve Online.. early indications for me is that Rift will be added to my 'list'
The WoW UI is pretty much a derivative of the LUA mod community and not a Blizzard creation. In pretty much the past six years the Blizzard developers have been copying and incorporating the most popular UI addons used in WoW.
So Rift is using what the most talented modders have managed to create over the years in WoW. Kudos to the modders and kudos to Rift for having a functional UI from launch day (unlike the other MMO that had to wait for six years to see a proper company made UI).
Useless post, more like an opinion. How can this make the game itself very bad? Think what you are trying to say before writing it down. If Rift is so WoW to you types and it is the whole reason that makes it very bad... then what WoW is? I mean Rift is good game. It looks good, plays good everything is done very well. Except maybe crafting (because i prefer more minigamish crafting). But overall, Rift is very good game despite what you people compare it. It's not very original i give you that but claiming that it is very bad is just plain wrong. I do however feel too that its wearing out quickly... but i hope they can fix that with the upcoming expansions and new content!
the best way to kill a troll is to FLAME ON! ...or with acid...
When I see threads like this I become worried for those holding out for GW2 or SWTOR. It is entirely possible that neither will be released this year. Both have gone very quiet latelyl. And both could be VERY dissapointing.
Ever head the saying "a bird in hand is better than two in the bush"?
The bird in hand is Rift. If you cannot take it for what it is (appreciate its good points) and have some fun with it, IF you can ONLY look forward to the two birds in the bush, then in my opinion you need to take a break from gaming.
What annoys me the most about the game is the misleading marketing.
In every video they make, they show rifts, invasions and conclude "this is rift". Ok, i was tricked, bought it, leveled to 50, let's see the endgame. Found out that almost no one is doing rifts (they are practically the same thing over and over again, becoming extremely boring, that combined with almost useless rewards for doing them) and the game becomes just WoW without content and Dungeon Finder.
When you clearly target a game at WoW's audience (people who left or are willing to leave WoW) you must bring to the table something seriously improved. For a lot of people, the heavily-appraised soul system with redundant skills and the random spawns they call "dynamic events" are not enough. Plus, they've started the heavy "nerfing" and "balancing" patches already. Got all of those in "that other game" tyvm.
I'm not sure what's misleading about it. In level 50 you have quite a few things that you can work on.
If we're talking PvP, then prestige 6 is a huge investment of time. I'd say it takes two months for someone semi-hardcore to get there and get all the tier 2 PvP gear. Especially if you're running in random groups like I do.
If we are talking PvE you have more things to work on. For a start, have you concluded with quests in a zones? I've still haven't touched an entire zone and I still need to move the epiq quest line away from Freemarch.
There are societies in every zone that you can gain reputation with them. Some can be done via dailies, some via running dungeons, some via questing.
The dungeons themselves are very interesting and challenging. They are also different than their normal counterparts with added abilities on same bosses and added bosses.
Those dungeons give tokens that you can convert into expert group or raid rift summoning tokens. Have you done any of those with your group?
Then there is the raid itself.
And of cousre we'll see about the new content introduced in two days from now.
And these are probably the big stuff. There are more stuff, maybe minor to me, like hunting artifacts or doing puzzles etc.
I have reached Prestige 3 and did the expert dungeons numerous times, and a decent ammont of "purple token' rifts.
What is misleading - misleading is that they emphasize the "dynamic content" , they try to sell the game based on that, while at endgame Rift is just a WoW-like gear grind, through the same means (instancing, warfronts, reputation quests). That is misleading.
If you watch the videos, you live under the impression that Rift is an open-world game, where people go together in massive raids against dynamic, cleverly designed ingame events, while in fact at cap level people wait in city for the next warfront or spam the chat for the next instance run.
You cannot aim for people who are bored / burnt out of WoW, try to sell them the same stuff in another wrapping and expect to be successful - that was my argument.
Rift is my game of choice right now. I enjoy the flexibility to decide if I want to do some questing, some PVP warfronts, or jump into a few Rifts. The difference between a minor and major rift around level 30 is tremendous, as major rifts really do require teamwork (as all spawns are elites) and not just random attacks at the mobs. The difference in rewards is significant too.
The best thing about Rift is that it is still new. People don't know every inch of the game (yet) and it is a great time to meet people and build relationships. To me, this is the single largest issue with joining a MMORPG late in its life; the majority of players (even on a newer server) have all "been there, done that".
I suppose I'm not the target of your observation then because I didn't watch any videos and based my purchase decision on them. I played the beta, I liked the game, I subscribed. And that's probably how the majority of the current players got into the game, that and positive world of mouth.
Videos, reviews and marketing are for those not having used any of the above mentioned options, thus they need to rely on secnd hand experience from "experts".
I am talking about Trion's promotional videos. I was interested in what kind of game this was, what were the dev's ideas, what should i expect in the long term.
You did not have access to the endgame in beta. In a game where getting to cap level takes 3 weeks of casual play (and i am sure you figured this out in "betas"), i am interested in the endgame, not the leveling experience.
I had no clue that the endgame will be WoW with another skin, because i could not see it, and the only reliable source (Trion) marketed it as being totally different.
Well, thats what you get for buying something unidentified. I would say smartest thing whenever a game comes out is to wait a month at least. For people to fully explore the game, and you to watch forums instead, to see if the game is what was expected to be or a total failure. Still, it's your money, do whatever you want with it, im just sayin...
The sylvari ordered Rice n chicken in a bar. The waiter asked him: "exploded or intact?" He angrily answered: "Intact of course! Do you take me for a fool?"
Those were his last words.
It took me exactly 122 hours to reach level 50 and I had beta knowledge of the game up to level 42 (although on the other side of the conflict). This is pure time, no afks. I was logging out to afk due to PvP server and random mobs running around. Divide with the time you feel comfortable with to see how many weeks it'll take you to reach max. Add some extra time if you're not familiar with MMOs in general and some more if you haven't played in the beta.
All MMOs, even the ones that offer you extensive beta testing are a gamble. It's a gamble in two fronts. You don't know if you will like the game for an extended period of time (not talking about just the endgame) and you don't know if you'll form solid ties with the community that will make your stay easier (that's why I didn't stick with EVE).
On the positive side, the first major open world event is almost upon us and it's scheduled to launch before the first month is out. I'd say that's pretty responsive for Trion and it will be really great if they manage to hold such events in such short period of time, unlike other games where they suck or move their development team to other projects. Things are definitely looking good.
Yes you are totally right, it was a bad decision, based on the fact that i've thrived for a MMO for quite a while before Rift launched. On the other hand, now i feel they lied to me and they'll never get my sub again, no matter what content they put in. I do not trust them anymore.
Unfortunately i find that maneuver just a way to keep people's sub's. Let's hope i'm wrong.
I did not say that everyone is from WoW. I've said that Trion evidently and aggressively marketed the game aiming for the WoW population and promising something different, while it's not like this.