gotta admire the HZ fanboi. They actually believe what they say and take anything Bowman says as Lord Gospel truth.
Notice I did say the game had improved BUT NOT at the level the article claims. There are NOT 2045 monster types in game. I am sorry but one golem be it Sand Slate Nickel or Mithril is exactly the same comes from the same schools. Same with beetles and Treants and the Withered aegies schools. The way the article reads is that each mob is unique and not a rinse over of other mobs.
1096 new Bipedal quests ? lets say this now trophy hunters giving kill tasks to get X amount of trophy parts and Town marshals giving kill X number of mobs for X amount of coin ARE NOT QUESTS PERIOD. They are just that kill tasks and thats it. The article reads like this is fantastic news and it actually counts as content. 380 New Dragon quests ?? yes added since release the ability and AROP quests. Lotsa stuff for dragons to do diddly squat for Bipeds. Quests as we KNOW IT and defined by the industry there are maybe less than 200 of them if that. Please then do not quote numbers that are exagerated and manipulated on what the actual facts are.
Client issues gone and Flawless server setup... NO WAY not even close. Go read the offcial boards and the good bye section. Most of those posts quote problems with lag and client performance. Heck read any of the boards you will see Horizons performance issues being a common thread in many of them.
Oh and I have an axe to grind on other boards ? No I have always wanted the Horizons Bowman claimed it was going to be and thus far has yet to be. I however believe that giving Bowman a hug and a kiss for a job well done is the stupid way to go and already has proven not to work.
Don't believe me there is a thread on this on the official forums general board. You will see already two distinct sides to this article. One that says its all peaches cream and fairies and the other is the direct opposite totally in touch with reality.
Either way do not take my word for it don't take the lalal Horizons fanboi word for it either. Go try the trial and you will see for yourself that the claims made by the article are greatly exagerated. My issue was with the fact that the article made many false claims and exagerated the facts greatly. The proof is obvious but for some refuse to see it. Why should you see the truth ? It will give you a better perspective on the work that still needs to happen. So just because I haven't offered up someone to have Bowman's baby doesn't mean that some people myself included want to see Horizons go under. Try seeing this from other perspectives than your own obviously biased opinions cause I can tell you this they have already been proven wrong. You just refuse to acknowledge it.
Might want to come up with something better Mr Doom .
You can nit pick EQ2 if you want, but one thing stands out.
CONTENT.
Try this, remove ALL the crafting content from HZ. No plots, houses, crafted gear. What do you have left?
There was a thread on the discussions forum, where many senior players, fanpeeps, posted there suggestions for what they would have done if they had designed HZ. Most of the content they suggested came from, with references to, WoW.
Both EQ2 and WoW are vastly more complex and have much greater depth than HZ. I don't play EQ2, because it's harder to solo. But WoW...
This is what WoW has which HZ does not.
Combat Pets.(Hunter)
Social Pets. (ALL)
Visible cloaks.
Detailed armor skins, and weapons. Not just color changes. There are several different leather skins for example.
Excellent player made gear AND equal dropped/quested gear, just take yer pick.
The ability to enhance armor, AFTER you buy/make it.
Far more varied, if less detailed graphics.
Vast range of mobs, not just "golems in many colors" Mob location makes sense too, certains only in certain feasible areas.
Singular auction house, instead of the consigners being spread out so far, and often not used.
Recipes for ALL crafts, that are drop only, making them rarer, and more desirable.
Recipes for ALL crafts attained through quests. Real quests, not craft X amount.
Objects in the game world that can be activated/used. Chests, crates, scrolls, etc. some contains loot, some start quests.
Dungeons. Simple undergound areas with creatures to fight, NPCs to rescue, chests to open.
Instanced dungeons tailored for your group, more challenge, no trains or ninja looting, lots of rewards, cash, items, including rare weapons/armor and named mobs for quests.
Quests. Simple kill X, deliver package, gather X, to complex multi part epics covering many zones, containing lore, and serious rewards at the end.
PvP. Play on a PvE server and it's optional. Battlegrounds. Intanced zones with PvP 40 vs 40, huge battles, areas to claim, objectives to achieve, quests to perform. Intense, exciting, challenging.
Honor system. Gets points for achieving goals in PvP, BG, and get better gear.
WAR! HZs so called war against the WA is a damp squib compared to WoWs ongoing war.
Endgame!!
WoW more polished?
I think it's a lot more than that. It's far more casual friendly than HZ, has interesting stuff to do right up to level 60, and tons of stuff to do at 60. If you craft in HZ the game is great. If you play a dragon in HZ the game is great.
I played an Elven Ranger for almost a year and got fed up with losing my prestige quests, nature quests, losing most of my guild to better games, losing my patience with the spawn system, losing my mind grinding tons of craft materials to gain the next level, and losing my hope that REAL content would be added for my class/race.
The devs continue to feed crafters and dragons with content, even now, just look at the patch notes, and shaft everyone else.
Originally posted by Hadesprime gotta admire the HZ fanboi. They actually believe what they say and take anything Bowman says as Lord Gospel truth.
Gotta admire the HZ slamboi. They actually believe David Bowman is satan, and David Allen is jesus who died for our sins. All praise David Allen, for he is the son of our lord!. Struck down to pay for our sins!.
May god have mercy on those who sympathise with the devil!, for he is responsible for ALL the evil in the world!.
Ok get real please. David Allen was overly-ambitious, it is largely his fault that the project ran out of money and had to release early. He was inexperianced with business matters and uncapable to see things through. There are many dreamers in the world like David Allen, but you don't hear a peep about them until they actually deliver. What matters in the gaming business is getting a product out that means squat and sells, anyone, even I can come up with some amazing game idea but if you don't see it through to retail you don't count for crap all.
Also, people villainise David Bowman sometimes because partly of that earlier affair, but lets face it this is a capitalistic society, business like that debacle happens all the time even in your favourite companies, the difference here is you actually heard about it because Allen went crying to everyone. If you don't like that kind of activity go find some communist country to live in.
As for David Bowman and his "lies", well its called putting a spin on things. You add a little bit more polish to what you say and bend the truth just to hope people will give it a try, the trick is to understand when they are bending the truth, which anyone with half a brain and experiance in any MMORPG can identify even if they haven't played Horizons. Now after you identify the spin, you can just adjust your expectations and go in and try the free trial with more realistic expectations, but it doesn't change anything. It is common business practice to dress your product up to more than it is, and its not like it isn't obvious that he is doing it. You lot just like to play devils advocate.
Now as to the game itself, I will likely not go back because I think both World of Warcraft and Everquest2 are superior products for adventurers, however there is some things in Horizons that people can enjoy if they are inclined towards them. Just face facts, people like different things, and also some things that can seem inferior can be ultimately attractive to you. I enjoyed many of the months I spent wit horizons as my main game, and I would not take them back. Other people can enjoy them in a same way, even if they eventually get bored of the product that does not matter, people get bored of World of Warcraft and Everquest 2 as well. As long as the product provides some enjoyment that was worthwhile.
MMORPGs can be a lot like girlfriends or bofriends in that, sometimes you can just like "inferior" ones even if you could do "better" just because there is something appealing there, and similary you can feel bitter if you are let down by one. I think that is where a lot of this bitterness is from, people expect this mmorpg to be "the one" but when it isn't you feel need to put it down at any corner out of some twisted vendetta . Despite the fact there may be something there for someone to love.
I do not knock someone for liking cricket or baseball even though I really dislike both, similar you should just let people make their mind up on Horizons themselves as well. We all know DB puts spin on things, it's his job to put spin on things. We all know Horizons is not perfect, but we also should know that it can provide enjoyment for some even if it doesn't for you.
------------------------------------------- Krald - Ranger in Horizons (retired) Kildritch - Defiler in EQ2 (retired) Kirinta - Warrior in WoW.
Please, there is a difference between spin and down right lying. As far as Allen goes at least he admitted he was no ceo. He was the idea man and just needed someone behind him to help him push the game out. Not be back stabbed by the likes of DB. But then again DB tried to do a take over at Turbine and he was fired for it. What more needs to be said other than the workers or his bosses can't trust him and you have seen very clearly that the players can't either. Which is exactly why HZ is in the very bad state it is in.
"The team had estimated Horizons would cost six million dollars to produce over a two-year cycle. In reality, it cost eighteen million dollars."
Can you believe what kind of incompetence is needed to blow through 18 million dollars and end up with something like Horizons? incredible.
Another company would of made a game equal to WoW or EQ2 for that kind of money. Even inexperienced startups would have with that kind of resuorces to work with.
It's companies like AE and Wolfpack that ruin the chances for other companies trying to get investments and would be able to actually produce with those investments.
What claims are false? Have you played the game recently?
Well the claim are not really false just missleading.
Take the claim of thousand new monster added .. - well a golem is still a golem, we passed from about 8 type to 20. - or th fact that it's young or mature, it's still the same mobs.
For the quest .. I fail to see that many added. I really question the value expressed by DB. because again it's like go kill 5 sand golem and go kill 5 marble golem ... same quest offre at different level with adjustment to the level of mobs to be killed. Not really a news quest.
Altough if you take in account they only 27 peoples working their, they are doing their best, with the situation. They just need to listen to what annoyes the players and get some content / dugeon added and the game can revive.
They can't even take the time to update there faq. It still reads Artifact. And there not really clear upfront about if you have to pay for the client the trial.
I really liked the beta of Horizons. But when they said they where going into release, I knew there would be trouble.
For me, it was one of the most fun crafting systems around. It's a shame that they can't seem to get there act together
Sorry, but as long as David Bowman is involved I will not try it. Why should I believe anything he says now when all he did was lie in the past? This man does not deserve a second chance, in my opinion, due to his previous behaviour.
Too bad Tulga was just a front for Mr. Bowman to come back into this game. It should have been sold on the condition that he not serve as anything or be involved at all. I will never trust that man. What a shame.
Originally posted by Di0XiDe Originally posted by Hadesprime gotta admire the HZ fanboi. They actually believe what they say and take anything Bowman says as Lord Gospel truth.
Gotta admire the HZ slamboi. They actually believe David Bowman is satan, and David Allen is jesus who died for our sins. All praise David Allen, for he is the son of our lord!. Struck down to pay for our sins!.
May god have mercy on those who sympathise with the devil!, for he is responsible for ALL the evil in the world!.
.
umm ok... Allen obviously wasn't capable of releasing a game. Horizons should have instead died on the development table. Bowman ? is just as incompetant. He has been caught in many many outright fabrications and more exagerations of the truth than I even care to count. From the " Oh what you have now in beta is just infrastructure testing AT release we will be adding in way more content ( he meant to say there was going to be more content than what we saw in beta AT release not after). To the we adjusted our server capacities thats why they show light and very light ( when everyone knew people were leaving and why ) to we will never ever merge servers NOT gonna happen to Lairs and Ancient ROP will be in by december 2004 cause they are already done but none of the Dragon populatuon qualifies for it yet anyway ( AROP now has very shallow requirements so that was already proven false. To now the servers are flawless and client performance has been resolved ( there was a thread on the official boards a month ago about how they were going to have to rewrite the client to address the games problems). These are just a few small samples. So its not hard to see why Bowman has been villianized and with good cause too. Ever hear the term " you made your bed and now you get to sleep in it ". His reputation was earned by David himself for his actions. It is justly earned as well.
$18 Million to produce horizons ? WoW at one point was said to have cost around $20M and that was a vastly superior product to Horizons. Its problems were only because Blizzard did not expect it to do so well since everyone and their cousin tries a beta or just about anything.
Instead this article should have had the general tone that the game has improved but yet we have more work to do. Its just a result of Bowman's pipe dream of having a premier MMO title and his own 5 star calibre company. Sometimes I wonder if Turbine would ever release the details of why he was fired or the more gentle term let go.
I think a lot of Artifacts problems stem not only from say bowman or whom ever but also a big part from Atari.
I've tested several of their titles in beta and have come away discussed, even sending emails asking to be removed from testing on some titles. Titles like Horizons,driver3,SORM,Axis and allies to name a few show a steady decline in gaming quality. Pushed titles from them for reasons, be it a lack of experience, or willingness to follow through with commitment are leaving a trail behind them that just plain stinks. Buggy incomplete titles an insult to gamers. I feel horizons had a vision in the past and should have stuck with it.
Now they are trying to resurrect the dead.
A suggestion would be to strike a deal with this new company and buckle down and release the pvping title that Horizons was suppose to be.
But you have to really release the wolves when you release the title, its a long climb back above water. I mean Horizons is a joke thats laughed about around pubs and gaming circles. But i think Mourning took your place, almost.
It's funny the amount of 1 post new accounts come out of the woodwork to dogpile on this title. Hitler in all his glory couldn't have garnered this kind of avarice, granted that most posters probably have nothing better to do anyway.
Let me just say that I downloaded the Horizons client yesterday and installed and gave it a try. Download took 2hours, installing about 15 and patching about 15 minutes also.
The character select screen was very kewl, with the camera zooming down halls and into these little alcoves to see the races you have to select from. Once I got into the game and got my settings right, the game looked just great. If you think you can play on highest settings, you better have about 4 gigs of ram because these textures are DETAILED. Once I put the settings on High, the game performed perfectly and dang I was suprised how kewl the game looks and the UI feels. Ok I wasn't suprised, I was Blown away. With the quality of game most posters described, and the quality of the actual game that I was playing, yes I was blown away. This game has tons of character and charm, even though I'm at the very early stages, I'll be playing this game and paying for it because most flamers ranters and bedwetters who only listen to the gossip in forums like this instead of trying things for themselves wouldn't touch this game with a ten foot pole. I'm more than happy to let them play Guild Wars while I relax and have some fun in Istaria.
I think most of you posting about this game are going on year old, second and third hand information. I think that about 80% of you; the other 20% of negative posts I think your just a$$holes. I couldn't help thinking about all the negative crap I heard about this game while I was playing and it's just absolutely sad. All you people need to get over it in a big way, for yourselves. All of you rehashing this soap opera, talking about year old events like they were yesterday.
I do feel for those of you who got burned by this game in the past, and for that what would be the best solution for you? To continue to beat this game into the earth and kneel by your little bedsides every night praying for David Bowman to stub his pinky toe? You and I both know thats not healthy, although I imagine you get some perverse thrill voicing your hatred again and again ad nauseam. The best thing for you to do is get over it, dust yourselves off and find something you like and let go of all your bitterness before it actually changes your personality; although for some of you I can tell it's too late.
I tried the game myself having never played it before and was pleasantly suprised. I experienced no lag or glitches in my 2 hours last night and I can't wait till I get to play again tonight. Oh and also I asked question of a few people playing last night and was flabbergasted at the level of help I got from them; they all seemed to want to help in any way they could and would help me in future with any questions I had. It was kinda surreal.
LOL, yeah my first 3 weeks I really thought the game would be the next UO only better. Then reality sunk in fast, and as time went on the game just never got any better in performance wise, exploit wise and boring wise. I really have to laugh at the 2 hour review you just gave. You are so clueless but come back in 3 weeks and lets see what you have to say. Oh and yes I was in beta in retail and last time I played was just a week and half ago. the game is as bad as mourning and has the same type people running it. ROFL you actually think a 2 hour review is going to be taken serious.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by D0ZeR LOL, yeah my first 3 weeks I really thought the game would be the next UO only better. Then reality sunk in fast, and as time went on the game just never got any better in performance wise, exploit wise and boring wise. I really have to laugh at the 2 hour review you just gave. You are so clueless but come back in 3 weeks and lets see what you have to say. Oh and yes I was in beta in retail and last time I played was just a week and half ago. the game is as bad as mourning and has the same type people running it. ROFL you actually think a 2 hour review is going to be taken serious.
God DOZ3R you said a long time ago you wouldn't ever post about this game again. How do YOU expect to be taken seriously? Anyways yeah it was a 2 hour review, I'll have more to say as I play more But NONE of the problems you have indentified in your billion posts were there for me. I'll keep you posted. Anyways I am sorry for what the game has done to you. Can't you let it go for your own mental health? Didn't you read my post? All you got out of it was that I played 2 hours? Your the typical example of a forum troll, but I know your a human being so I keep trying to talk to you like one. Ok that was mean. I'm sure your family loves you so I'll try and be nicer. Try and let it go bro, maybe take up playing a game to be happy about. WoW is good fun same with Ryzom. What is your type of game? All this negativity and langouring on these forums just can't be good for you. All I wanted to point out is that I had no lag or glitches in my short experience last night . I'll give more info as I get to it
Most people will give a game at least 2 to 3 weeks before reviewing it, I just never saw a 2 hour one. Like I said before when I see untruths said about this game I will speak up. Sorry if that bothers you.
You have a good day now.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by Lepidus Yes, this article is based 90% on an interview with David.
I really wished the President and owner of Tulga Games, Chris Tulumello or a lead designer (I'd recommend Amon) was interviewed by Dana Massey. DB is just a spin master of words. His words in his July 2003 interview on gamespot have not materialized in the game, nor the visuals in their official videos (late 2003), nor some content in the Official Strategy Guide (based on AE's information). So lets take a look at the feature, which is essentially DBspeak. It can't be an editorial as that is more opinion supported by facts, not a write-up of an interview.
Remember, in December 2003, when Horizons launched, they had entered into a contract with Verio for server hosting of the "highly anticipated MMORPG . . . . of hundreds of thousands of players." Since then, that liability was eliminated by the bankruptcy ($ 919,000). They had 10 servers (3 roleplay, 4 action, and 3 european). David Allen was not even mentioned by name, sad.
Oh, don't forget the funding. David Allen and other monies in 2000. Nearly $ 10 million in 2001 - $ 5 million from NCsoft, May, and $ 4.5 million from Forrest Binkley & Brown and NCSoft, October. Whatever Atari provided in 2002/2003. The secured creditors - CP Baker and others - for $ 1.8 million.
When the retail box shows a flying dragon, yet a player must wait until the hatchling RoP to adult to be finished (more or less bug free) [b]4 months[/b] later, yes that means it was "not ready" for release. Oh, and the November 2003 dragon video shows an Ancient dragon, which players are still waiting for.
We wanted another year of development, said Bowman.
Odd, when I subscribed to Horizons around March 2004 I don't remember seeing a DB posting that Hz was a paid beta. At least another game openly admitted to this, LHE"s Mourning. From the posts above, I'm hoping MMORPG.com's staff takes a consistent view on game developers and how they treat their paying customers - delivered content vs. vaporware/promised content.
Ahh, the layoffs. If memory serves a few of those were developers that told DB the game was not ready for release and one was the main programmer on the client (Tony G I think). Fortunately Tony G was re-hired to fix the glaring problems with the client and its memory accumulation feature (long standing bug).
Tulga Games brought new money and new hope to the table, under similar management. The development team was merely a shadow of its former power, but now free of Atari this change allowed the team to stop making news on the corporate death-rattle front.
"New money" is an interesting term for more of CP Baker's money January 2005. A lot of good info in the bankruptcy documents. Also, now free from paying Atari the $ 5,000 they owed them.
This begged the question: what has really changed? The list is extensive, but David spoke of three major areas of improvement: combat, performance and the broad category of content.
The combat system. Mass farming of monsters due to no collision detection, where AoE spells can decimate 30 or more monsters crowding around a single character. The invisible health bar bug generally has be fixed (appeared a few months ago, didn't DB mention that?). Still, the bounding box on dragons make looting hard, along with targeting spells within mixed parties.
The performance. Still, they recommend systems have 512 meg of system memory, but really need 1 gig for enjoyable playability. DB may say, "Our servers are flawless," but not so their database, graphics rendering, and communication networking with clients. Never forget his words either, always they need confirmation or some sort of "prove it" reply. Still, players play with "gimped" settings, I'd prefer to see the spell animations (combat effects) during combat.
The content. Hmmm, 1096 bipedal quests, 380 new dragon quests, 2045 new monster types, etc. Well, I don't count a paragraph of "why", Kill X of Y monsters, "thank you, here's XP and coin" as a quest. Especially since during that task, a character loots trophy items that can be exchanged with a Trophy Hunter for XP and coin. Is that two quests? No. Besides, many players just save those trophies and use them to level another adventure class (I certainly hope a review mentions that approach to leveling secondary classes).
In practical terms, the game also now features adult dragon rites of passage quests, with the ancient dragon rite of passage quest to follow within approximately two months.
Dragons also have Kill X of Y monster tasks to add to their abilities. They are not quests. You seem to have omitted the original intent of 4 rites of passages for dragons - hatchling to juvenile, juvenile to young adult, adult to older adult, older adult to ancient - which better reflects a dragon aging over hundreds of game years. Hatchlings can be powered to become adults within a RL week (if not sooner).
The adult RoP to Ancient scheduled to be finished by mid August 2005? Well, DB said it, along with dragon lairs, were "on track" for December 2004. DBspeak.
Monster loot and purple necroflies with swords. Veteran Hz players will understand that inconsitency (on two levels even).
One area where they felt they were always strong was the concept of schools and multi-schooling. This system essentially allows players to mix and match their class to create the character they want.
Yes, DB's vision of roleswapping. Level the non dragon in any school (set of skills) you want then just change the current adventure class (along with armor and items). Since all characters have immediate access to 200 spells they have scribed, a character can have a warrior-type role one day, mage-type another, and cleric-type the next time. Unfortunately, it also leads to a term another has phrased - uberped. Players taking their characters to the extreme in multi-schooling can become self-healing massive damage dealers (such as a dwarf flame bombing packs of wolves while using his dwarven toughness to be immune to damage for a few seconds, long enough for massive XP). I certainly hope that is in your review.
Dragons can't multi-school. So a bored player can gind level after level or build on their plot as a non-dragon or just fly around waiting for parts of the adult RoP to Ancient and, someday, dragon lairs. Actually, a player can "sleep" their dragon and play a biped character, looting massive amounts of hoard items to mule to their dragon character.
. . . . twenty-two live events on their servers. This creates a world where players actually take an active hand in its evolution.
Hmmm, I only consider 3 main events - those that revolved around freeing the Dryads and Satyrs and the Novo machine that merged the 10 servers to 3 (late August/early Sept. 2004), which also created a major hassle for plot ownership, reorganized many of the land's monsters and resources, added land to explore. It took months to resolve bugs and issues related to the merge (many frustrated dragon hatchlings seeking adulthood).
Events lead by World Masters that are just raids by the Withered Aegis or repeating annual events don't change the world, as in "creates a world" and "evolution."
it packs a complex crafting system unlike anything the other major games have to offer
Unlike is a unique way of saying that characters can carry massive amounts of material (non-dragons more so), crafted items instantly (from 1 to 20 to 100), and just grind through levels deconstructing instantly.
lets you own and develop property in one of the neatest systems Ive ever played with.
Dragons can own plots, not develop them. Characters are limited in racial style structures to generally human with a few of the other races. A plot can't be completely dwarven or dryad or satyr in racial flavor.
Furthermore, the game is in some ways two games in one. It is simultaneously both the more traditional MMORPG experience, and the dragon game. The later is a very different beast. At this time, 24% of players play dragons for a more action oriented game play experience with less of a focus on crafting.
True, dragons only need 30 to 40 levels of crafting as the Council of Elders don't care if Ancients learn more crafting knowledge. However, don't confuse playing a dragon due to game mechanics and playing a dragon due to Istarian lore. Horizons allows the former, but ignores the latter.
Originally posted by Lepidus The second phase will be a re-review where we give it a fresh try on a clean slate, but in a critical article.
With that, I stand by my 6.1 rating.
On Apr 17, 2005 boeskyle wrote: Horizons has unfinished content and is using a performance challenged engine (their own Evolution Engine). Graphics and sound are above average for a game released Dec. 2003 (some dragon spell effects are not finished). Performance is still the bane of the game with its memory accumulation issue - FPS lowers over time (must endure log out/log in process to clear . . . . so have 512+ meg of system memory). FPS drops in some towns from rendering (and also fights with more than 5 other players or many monsters). Role playing is okay, but few game mechanics to support its rich lore - where role played races and classes could really shine. However, David Bowman admitted the game is "roleswapping" where any non-dragon character can perform any role in a party (need to swap out current school). Customer service is improving, but are notoriously slow to fix issues. The mature community is evident in game and official forums, but players do disrupt that by exploiting game bugs. The only game with a playable dragon, but most of its content is non-dragon focused (they are behind schedule in finishing the adult RoP to Ancient quest). Plot system is nice, but mainly human style buildings (no dragon lairs). If you want to play a character that can max everything (minimal weaknesses), can grind levels fast, and/or fly around as a dragon, Horizons may be your game.
I wonder how MMORPG.com rates Horizons in its "critical review," hopefully independent of advertising $$ from Tulga Games.
Originally posted by Nalrach well a golem is still a golem, we passed from about 8 type to 20. - or th fact that it's young or mature, it's still the same mobs. For the quest .. I fail to see that many added. I really question the value expressed by DB. because again it's like go kill 5 sand golem and go kill 5 marble golem ... same quest offre at different level with adjustment to the level of mobs to be killed. Not really a news quest.
That's somewhat akin to saying that a Shetland pony and a Shire draft horse are the same mob, just rescaled & retextured. I agree that it would be nice to see more monster types, but if the resources aren't there to model and animate one, or if those folks are needed on a more important projects, then I'll live with *yet another* reskinned golem. I have no doubt the number is accurate, because a level 69 golem and a level 70 have different stats, the level 70 probably has an attack the level 69 doesn't, and most likely has a slightly different treasure table. They're both golems, but they are in fact different monsters.
Same with the numbers cited for quests. I disagree with the way the word 'quest' is used here, but, yes, every single mission a player can be offered is considered a 'quest', as the gaming industry defines the term. WoW does the same thing, though I understand their tasks have a little more lore and color. Still, they're just FedEx, Kill X of Y, or whatever tasks.
I think the article and the information in it is accurate. I don't read it as saying that all the problems are solved - because they aren't. I expect it will be at least a year for the new game client to be released, for example. The main point of the article is that the game is still here, that it is vastly improved over launch (IMHO, it's finally where it should have been at launch..), and that it deserves to be evaluated on what it offers today - not the state it was in at launch.
Originally posted by D0ZeR Most people will give a game at least 2 to 3 weeks before reviewing it, I just never saw a 2 hour one. Like I said before when I see untruths said about this game I will speak up. Sorry if that bothers you. You have a good day now.
I didnt in any way misrepresent my experience last night. I told the complete truth. What part of what I said was untrue?
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by D0ZeRLOL, yeah my first 3 weeks I really thought the game would be the next UO only better. Then reality sunk in fast, and as time went on the game just never got any better in performance wise, exploit wise and boring wise. I really have to laugh at the 2 hour review you just gave. You are so clueless but come back in 3 weeks and lets see what you have to say. Oh and yes I was in beta in retail and last time I played was just a week and half ago. the game is as bad as mourning and has the same type people running it. ROFL you actually think a 2 hour review is going to be taken serious. God DOZ3R you said a long time ago you wouldn't ever post about this game again. How do YOU expect to be taken seriously? Anyways yeah it was a 2 hour review, I'll have more to say as I play more But NONE of the problems you have indentified in your billion posts were there for me. I'll keep you posted. Anyways I am sorry for what the game has done to you. Can't you let it go for your own mental health? Didn't you read my post? All you got out of it was that I played 2 hours? Your the typical example of a forum troll, but I know your a human being so I keep trying to talk to you like one. Ok that was mean. I'm sure your family loves you so I'll try and be nicer. Try and let it go bro, maybe take up playing a game to be happy about. WoW is good fun same with Ryzom. What is your type of game? All this negativity and langouring on these forums just can't be good for you. All I wanted to point out is that I had no lag or glitches in my short experience last night . I'll give more info as I get to it
well you played last night ??
Umm the servers were down pretty much due to a problem with their plot reclaimations. In fact they were down most of the night. Roll back and all that.
well you played last night ?? Umm the servers were down pretty much due to a problem with their plot reclaimations. In fact they were down most of the night. Roll back and all that. *tongue in cheek*
Actually not quite. I also downloaded the client and played the game for a bit last night. So what are my initail thoughts?
The machine I tried it on (not my own) is a AMD xp 2200+ (I think, runs at 1.67ghz), 786mb of 30 pin sdram (not ddr), 80 gig hd, and a ATI 9200 video card.
After the game downloaded a patch and updated itself I didn't find it to be that long to get into the game. In fact it was less time than it took me to get into Ryzom. Once in I went to the character creation screen. I found this part to be well done. I was also please to see a variety of races that truely did seem to be different. Of course seeing as the big thing in the game are the dragons I continued to create one. I was very suprised by this and have to tell you that you can make a mean dragon.
So far no performance issues, no graphical issues, and a prety plesant experience.
When I first get into the game I am very suprised by how detailed things are (especially with the weak video card the computer has). I go to the NPC dragon and start my training. It was pretty clear what I was suppose to do and things made sense. It seems well written. After killing my first enemy I was sent to another NPC. On the way there I did notice graphical color glitches in the sky (it would change color suddenly without reason). This had no effect on gameplay or the ability to see objects. Mostly it was just a distraction. When I reached the next NPC I was given a crafting tutorial. This was also well written and while I did have to figure out a few details, for the most part it was clear and easy to follow. This is where I stopped playing due to time issues.
It's very improtant to note that besides the graphical glitch I didn't run across one bug, there was no lag, animation was smooth, and the game ran very nicely.
Now the reason why anarchyart and myself feel the need to post "2 hour" reviews is becuase of the way most of you have knocked down the game. Before actually trying the game I would of tought the game crashed all the time, the graphics were horrible, the client was so bug ridden you coulnd't play it, and it wouldn't be fun in the least. I have now tried it and I can safely say that much of what has been said about the game (performance wise) is based upon year old information.
Now my machine at home (which I will try tonight) is an AMD64 2800, 1gig of ddr ram, surround sound, and a nvidia 6800gt card. I will report my findings in the near future.
You guys keep saying we haven't tried the game. They have had two free days for players to come back and try it and yes even after that some of us have gone back just to see if they fixed anything. The game has major problems and the longer you play it you will end up running into these problems. Like I said before at first I thought the game was the next UO only better then I hit 3 weeks in. Going back over and over again I am sorry to say other than some fluff fixes most of the major problems are still there. Some of us just know exactly where to go and what to do to see these problems. I hope 1000 people try the trial then you will end up begining to see blobs and other fun things. Then again people will make a mass exit. Ahhhhhhhhhh the fun of Horizons.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by D0ZeR You guys keep saying we haven't tried the game. They have had two free days for players to come back and try it and yes even after that some of us have gone back just to see if they fixed anything. The game has major problems and the longer you play it you will end up running into these problems. Like I said before at first I thought the game was the next UO only better then I hit 3 weeks in. Going back over and over again I am sorry to say other than some fluff fixes most of the major problems are still there. Some of us just know exactly where to go and what to do to see these problems. I hope 1000 people try the trial then you will end up begining to see blobs and other fun things. Then again people will make a mass exit. Ahhhhhhhhhh the fun of Horizons.
Ok, lets say in 3 weeks I start to see the game does suck. That's still 3 weeks I enjoyed playing it. If I listen to the bitter people here, I wouldn't even have those 3 weeks.
I think you missed this part? " I hope 1000 people try the trial then you will end up begining to see blobs and other fun things" Enjoy it while you can.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by anarchyart It's funny the amount of 1 post new accounts come out of the woodwork to dogpile on this title. Hitler in all his glory couldn't have garnered this kind of avarice, granted that most posters probably have nothing better to do anyway. ...
If you are including me I suggest you look at my reg date. I have been around a while. This is just the first time I decided to participate in a discussion since I followed this game for a few years when the boards started in VN.
I played this game when it came out (bought it about a week after release). It was actually fun back then, although I found the article to pretty much have covered everything that was wrong with it.
It was a decent game, it just didn't have enough polish. With all the things that supposedly changed with it, perhaps it really is a good game again. I've created a trial account rather than reactivating my original account, just to be safe. But from playing the game before, I'd have to say that creating a trial account yourself and giving the game a looksee, whether you're new to it or it's old news, I think any of you would probably benefit from giving it another shot.
At the very least you'll have experienced one of MMO histories biggest stumbles. For good or bad anyways.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
>>Basically, Lepidus contacted David Bowman (or he contacted her; not clear, but it doesn't matter). She interviewed him. He gave her his take on the game (spin positive! what a shock!), and she logged in and ran around on Blight as a low-level nobody for an hour or so, tops. Then paraphrased what he said about the game, coupled with her hour of "experience" (nothing really to add but fluff, in my opinion), and wrote her resulting "take" on the game.<< posted on horizons offical forum
This person made a really good point. Dana how long did you play Horizons? Did you actually manage to get off New Brommel and explorer around the Istaria itself? Are you still playing now?
Really if you want to have a good review I suggest playing this game for at least two months, try to get at least level 35-40 adventure and see about these quests they are talking about. I think you've interviewed the wrong people, David Bowmans words doesnt seem to be accurate. Hes not going to bash his own product or say anything negative about it. The right people to be interviewed would be the veterans who are still playing Horizons.
Think of this way if wanted the best accurate reviews of a car, you're not going to listen to the president of GM. hes not going to say "our cars arent very good, they dont well in crash test, and o yeah you know ford they make better cars" you think he would say that? no. where would you like to get your information from customers, right?
Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online
Comments
gotta admire the HZ fanboi. They actually believe what they say and take anything Bowman says as Lord Gospel truth.
Notice I did say the game had improved BUT NOT at the level the article claims. There are NOT 2045 monster types in game. I am sorry but one golem be it Sand Slate Nickel or Mithril is exactly the same comes from the same schools. Same with beetles and Treants and the Withered aegies schools. The way the article reads is that each mob is unique and not a rinse over of other mobs.
1096 new Bipedal quests ? lets say this now trophy hunters giving kill tasks to get X amount of trophy parts and Town marshals giving kill X number of mobs for X amount of coin ARE NOT QUESTS PERIOD. They are just that kill tasks and thats it. The article reads like this is fantastic news and it actually counts as content. 380 New Dragon quests ?? yes added since release the ability and AROP quests. Lotsa stuff for dragons to do diddly squat for Bipeds. Quests as we KNOW IT and defined by the industry there are maybe less than 200 of them if that. Please then do not quote numbers that are exagerated and manipulated on what the actual facts are.
Client issues gone and Flawless server setup... NO WAY not even close. Go read the offcial boards and the good bye section. Most of those posts quote problems with lag and client performance. Heck read any of the boards you will see Horizons performance issues being a common thread in many of them.
Oh and I have an axe to grind on other boards ? No I have always wanted the Horizons Bowman claimed it was going to be and thus far has yet to be. I however believe that giving Bowman a hug and a kiss for a job well done is the stupid way to go and already has proven not to work.
Don't believe me there is a thread on this on the official forums general board. You will see already two distinct sides to this article. One that says its all peaches cream and fairies and the other is the direct opposite totally in touch with reality.
Either way do not take my word for it don't take the lalal Horizons fanboi word for it either. Go try the trial and you will see for yourself that the claims made by the article are greatly exagerated. My issue was with the fact that the article made many false claims and exagerated the facts greatly. The proof is obvious but for some refuse to see it. Why should you see the truth ? It will give you a better perspective on the work that still needs to happen. So just because I haven't offered up someone to have Bowman's baby doesn't mean that some people myself included want to see Horizons go under. Try seeing this from other perspectives than your own obviously biased opinions cause I can tell you this they have already been proven wrong. You just refuse to acknowledge it.
Might want to come up with something better Mr Doom
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Kerix, you truly live in a dream world don't you.
You can nit pick EQ2 if you want, but one thing stands out.
CONTENT.
Try this, remove ALL the crafting content from HZ. No plots, houses, crafted gear. What do you have left?
There was a thread on the discussions forum, where many senior players, fanpeeps, posted there suggestions for what they would have done if they had designed HZ. Most of the content they suggested came from, with references to, WoW.
Both EQ2 and WoW are vastly more complex and have much greater depth than HZ. I don't play EQ2, because it's harder to solo. But WoW...
This is what WoW has which HZ does not.
Combat Pets.(Hunter)
Social Pets. (ALL)
Visible cloaks.
Detailed armor skins, and weapons. Not just color changes. There are several different leather skins for example.
Excellent player made gear AND equal dropped/quested gear, just take yer pick.
The ability to enhance armor, AFTER you buy/make it.
Far more varied, if less detailed graphics.
Vast range of mobs, not just "golems in many colors" Mob location makes sense too, certains only in certain feasible areas.
Singular auction house, instead of the consigners being spread out so far, and often not used.
Recipes for ALL crafts, that are drop only, making them rarer, and more desirable.
Recipes for ALL crafts attained through quests. Real quests, not craft X amount.
Objects in the game world that can be activated/used. Chests, crates, scrolls, etc. some contains loot, some start quests.
Dungeons. Simple undergound areas with creatures to fight, NPCs to rescue, chests to open.
Instanced dungeons tailored for your group, more challenge, no trains or ninja looting, lots of rewards, cash, items, including rare weapons/armor and named mobs for quests.
Quests. Simple kill X, deliver package, gather X, to complex multi part epics covering many zones, containing lore, and serious rewards at the end.
PvP. Play on a PvE server and it's optional. Battlegrounds. Intanced zones with PvP 40 vs 40, huge battles, areas to claim, objectives to achieve, quests to perform. Intense, exciting, challenging.
Honor system. Gets points for achieving goals in PvP, BG, and get better gear.
WAR! HZs so called war against the WA is a damp squib compared to WoWs ongoing war.
Endgame!!
WoW more polished?
I think it's a lot more than that. It's far more casual friendly than HZ, has interesting stuff to do right up to level 60, and tons of stuff to do at 60. If you craft in HZ the game is great. If you play a dragon in HZ the game is great.
I played an Elven Ranger for almost a year and got fed up with losing my prestige quests, nature quests, losing most of my guild to better games, losing my patience with the spawn system, losing my mind grinding tons of craft materials to gain the next level, and losing my hope that REAL content would be added for my class/race.
The devs continue to feed crafters and dragons with content, even now, just look at the patch notes, and shaft everyone else.
Try WoW, without predujuce, you'll see.
Gotta admire the HZ slamboi. They actually believe David Bowman is satan, and David Allen is jesus who died for our sins. All praise David Allen, for he is the son of our lord!. Struck down to pay for our sins!.
May god have mercy on those who sympathise with the devil!, for he is responsible for ALL the evil in the world!.
Ok get real please. David Allen was overly-ambitious, it is largely his fault that the project ran out of money and had to release early. He was inexperianced with business matters and uncapable to see things through. There are many dreamers in the world like David Allen, but you don't hear a peep about them until they actually deliver. What matters in the gaming business is getting a product out that means squat and sells, anyone, even I can come up with some amazing game idea but if you don't see it through to retail you don't count for crap all.
Also, people villainise David Bowman sometimes because partly of that earlier affair, but lets face it this is a capitalistic society, business like that debacle happens all the time even in your favourite companies, the difference here is you actually heard about it because Allen went crying to everyone. If you don't like that kind of activity go find some communist country to live in.
As for David Bowman and his "lies", well its called putting a spin on things. You add a little bit more polish to what you say and bend the truth just to hope people will give it a try, the trick is to understand when they are bending the truth, which anyone with half a brain and experiance in any MMORPG can identify even if they haven't played Horizons. Now after you identify the spin, you can just adjust your expectations and go in and try the free trial with more realistic expectations, but it doesn't change anything. It is common business practice to dress your product up to more than it is, and its not like it isn't obvious that he is doing it. You lot just like to play devils advocate.
Now as to the game itself, I will likely not go back because I think both World of Warcraft and Everquest2 are superior products for adventurers, however there is some things in Horizons that people can enjoy if they are inclined towards them. Just face facts, people like different things, and also some things that can seem inferior can be ultimately attractive to you. I enjoyed many of the months I spent wit horizons as my main game, and I would not take them back. Other people can enjoy them in a same way, even if they eventually get bored of the product that does not matter, people get bored of World of Warcraft and Everquest 2 as well. As long as the product provides some enjoyment that was worthwhile.
MMORPGs can be a lot like girlfriends or bofriends in that, sometimes you can just like "inferior" ones even if you could do "better" just because there is something appealing there, and similary you can feel bitter if you are let down by one. I think that is where a lot of this bitterness is from, people expect this mmorpg to be "the one" but when it isn't you feel need to put it down at any corner out of some twisted vendetta
. Despite the fact there may be something there for someone to love.
I do not knock someone for liking cricket or baseball even though I really dislike both, similar you should just let people make their mind up on Horizons themselves as well. We all know DB puts spin on things, it's his job to put spin on things. We all know Horizons is not perfect, but we also should know that it can provide enjoyment for some even if it doesn't for you.
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Krald - Ranger in Horizons (retired)
Kildritch - Defiler in EQ2 (retired)
Kirinta - Warrior in WoW.
Please, there is a difference between spin and down right lying. As far as Allen goes at least he admitted he was no ceo. He was the idea man and just needed someone behind him to help him push the game out. Not be back stabbed by the likes of DB. But then again DB tried to do a take over at Turbine and he was fired for it. What more needs to be said other than the workers or his bosses can't trust him and you have seen very clearly that the players can't either. Which is exactly why HZ is in the very bad state it is in.
http://gamemethod.com/MPOG/145/a-story-of-artifact-entertainment
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
"The team had estimated Horizons would cost six million dollars to produce over a two-year cycle. In reality, it cost eighteen million dollars."
Can you believe what kind of incompetence is needed to blow through 18 million dollars and end up with something like Horizons? incredible.
Another company would of made a game equal to WoW or EQ2 for that kind of money. Even inexperienced startups would have with that kind of resuorces to work with.
It's companies like AE and Wolfpack that ruin the chances for other companies trying to get investments and would be able to actually produce with those investments.
Well the claim are not really false just missleading.
Take the claim of thousand new monster added ..
- well a golem is still a golem, we passed from about 8 type to 20.
- or th fact that it's young or mature, it's still the same mobs.
For the quest .. I fail to see that many added. I really question the value expressed by DB. because again it's like go kill 5 sand golem and go kill 5 marble golem ... same quest offre at different level with adjustment to the level of mobs to be killed. Not really a news quest.
Altough if you take in account they only 27 peoples working their, they are doing their best, with the situation. They just need to listen to what annoyes the players and get some content / dugeon added and the game can revive.
They can't even take the time to update there faq. It still reads Artifact. And there not really clear upfront about if you have to pay for the client the trial.
I really liked the beta of Horizons. But when they said they where going into release, I knew there would be trouble.
For me, it was one of the most fun crafting systems around. It's a shame that they can't seem to get there act together
Sorry, but as long as David Bowman is involved I will not try it. Why should I believe anything he says now when all he did was lie in the past? This man does not deserve a second chance, in my opinion, due to his previous behaviour.
Too bad Tulga was just a front for Mr. Bowman to come back into this game. It should have been sold on the condition that he not serve as anything or be involved at all. I will never trust that man. What a shame.
AKA - Bruxail
Gotta admire the HZ slamboi. They actually believe David Bowman is satan, and David Allen is jesus who died for our sins. All praise David Allen, for he is the son of our lord!. Struck down to pay for our sins!.
May god have mercy on those who sympathise with the devil!, for he is responsible for ALL the evil in the world!.
.
umm ok... Allen obviously wasn't capable of releasing a game. Horizons should have instead died on the development table. Bowman ? is just as incompetant. He has been caught in many many outright fabrications and more exagerations of the truth than I even care to count. From the " Oh what you have now in beta is just infrastructure testing AT release we will be adding in way more content ( he meant to say there was going to be more content than what we saw in beta AT release not after). To the we adjusted our server capacities thats why they show light and very light ( when everyone knew people were leaving and why ) to we will never ever merge servers NOT gonna happen to Lairs and Ancient ROP will be in by december 2004 cause they are already done but none of the Dragon populatuon qualifies for it yet anyway ( AROP now has very shallow requirements so that was already proven false. To now the servers are flawless and client performance has been resolved ( there was a thread on the official boards a month ago about how they were going to have to rewrite the client to address the games problems). These are just a few small samples. So its not hard to see why Bowman has been villianized and with good cause too. Ever hear the term " you made your bed and now you get to sleep in it ". His reputation was earned by David himself for his actions. It is justly earned as well.
$18 Million to produce horizons ? WoW at one point was said to have cost around $20M and that was a vastly superior product to Horizons. Its problems were only because Blizzard did not expect it to do so well since everyone and their cousin tries a beta or just about anything.
Instead this article should have had the general tone that the game has improved but yet we have more work to do. Its just a result of Bowman's pipe dream of having a premier MMO title and his own 5 star calibre company. Sometimes I wonder if Turbine would ever release the details of why he was fired or the more gentle term let go.
I think a lot of Artifacts problems stem not only from say bowman or whom ever but also a big part from Atari.
I've tested several of their titles in beta and have come away discussed, even sending emails asking to be removed from testing on some titles. Titles like Horizons,driver3,SORM,Axis and allies to name a few show a steady decline in gaming quality. Pushed titles from them for reasons, be it a lack of experience, or willingness to follow through with commitment are leaving a trail behind them that just plain stinks. Buggy incomplete titles an insult to gamers. I feel horizons had a vision in the past and should have stuck with it.
Now they are trying to resurrect the dead.
A suggestion would be to strike a deal with this new company and buckle down and release the pvping title that Horizons was suppose to be.
But you have to really release the wolves when you release the title, its a long climb back above water. I mean Horizons is a joke thats laughed about around pubs and gaming circles. But i think Mourning took your place, almost.
Later
FoE Fist of the Empire
It's funny the amount of 1 post new accounts come out of the woodwork to dogpile on this title. Hitler in all his glory couldn't have garnered this kind of avarice, granted that most posters probably have nothing better to do anyway.
Let me just say that I downloaded the Horizons client yesterday and installed and gave it a try. Download took 2hours, installing about 15 and patching about 15 minutes also.
The character select screen was very kewl, with the camera zooming down halls and into these little alcoves to see the races you have to select from. Once I got into the game and got my settings right, the game looked just great. If you think you can play on highest settings, you better have about 4 gigs of ram because these textures are DETAILED. Once I put the settings on High, the game performed perfectly and dang I was suprised how kewl the game looks and the UI feels. Ok I wasn't suprised, I was Blown away. With the quality of game most posters described, and the quality of the actual game that I was playing, yes I was blown away. This game has tons of character and charm, even though I'm at the very early stages, I'll be playing this game and paying for it because most flamers ranters and bedwetters who only listen to the gossip in forums like this instead of trying things for themselves wouldn't touch this game with a ten foot pole. I'm more than happy to let them play Guild Wars while I relax and have some fun in Istaria.
I think most of you posting about this game are going on year old, second and third hand information. I think that about 80% of you; the other 20% of negative posts I think your just a$$holes. I couldn't help thinking about all the negative crap I heard about this game while I was playing and it's just absolutely sad. All you people need to get over it in a big way, for yourselves. All of you rehashing this soap opera, talking about year old events like they were yesterday.
I do feel for those of you who got burned by this game in the past, and for that what would be the best solution for you? To continue to beat this game into the earth and kneel by your little bedsides every night praying for David Bowman to stub his pinky toe? You and I both know thats not healthy, although I imagine you get some perverse thrill voicing your hatred again and again ad nauseam. The best thing for you to do is get over it, dust yourselves off and find something you like and let go of all your bitterness before it actually changes your personality; although for some of you I can tell it's too late.
I tried the game myself having never played it before and was pleasantly suprised. I experienced no lag or glitches in my 2 hours last night and I can't wait till I get to play again tonight. Oh and also I asked question of a few people playing last night and was flabbergasted at the level of help I got from them; they all seemed to want to help in any way they could and would help me in future with any questions I had. It was kinda surreal.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Most people will give a game at least 2 to 3 weeks before reviewing it, I just never saw a 2 hour one. Like I said before when I see untruths said about this game I will speak up. Sorry if that bothers you.
You have a good day now.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
I really wished the President and owner of Tulga Games, Chris Tulumello or a lead designer (I'd recommend Amon) was interviewed by Dana Massey. DB is just a spin master of words. His words in his July 2003 interview on gamespot have not materialized in the game, nor the visuals in their official videos (late 2003), nor some content in the Official Strategy Guide (based on AE's information). So lets take a look at the feature, which is essentially DBspeak. It can't be an editorial as that is more opinion supported by facts, not a write-up of an interview.
And no dragon player will ever, ever forget DB's words in a July 2004 interview, "No Dragon yet qualifies for the Ancient Rite of Passage" (http://web174.cyberwebserver-14.de/hze-xanthia/index.php?module=ProdReviews&func=showcontent&id=2). Granted, that could be true due to lack of content provided by AE/TulgAE then. But the dragons then met the requirements now.
Remember, in December 2003, when Horizons launched, they had entered into a contract with Verio for server hosting of the "highly anticipated MMORPG . . . . of hundreds of thousands of players." Since then, that liability was eliminated by the bankruptcy ($ 919,000). They had 10 servers (3 roleplay, 4 action, and 3 european). David Allen was not even mentioned by name, sad.
Oh, don't forget the funding. David Allen and other monies in 2000. Nearly $ 10 million in 2001 - $ 5 million from NCsoft, May, and $ 4.5 million from Forrest Binkley & Brown and NCSoft, October. Whatever Atari provided in 2002/2003. The secured creditors - CP Baker and others - for $ 1.8 million.
When the retail box shows a flying dragon, yet a player must wait until the hatchling RoP to adult to be finished (more or less bug free) [b]4 months[/b] later, yes that means it was "not ready" for release. Oh, and the November 2003 dragon video shows an Ancient dragon, which players are still waiting for.
Odd, when I subscribed to Horizons around March 2004 I don't remember seeing a DB posting that Hz was a paid beta. At least another game openly admitted to this, LHE"s Mourning. From the posts above, I'm hoping MMORPG.com's staff takes a consistent view on game developers and how they treat their paying customers - delivered content vs. vaporware/promised content.
Ahh, the layoffs. If memory serves a few of those were developers that told DB the game was not ready for release and one was the main programmer on the client (Tony G I think). Fortunately Tony G was re-hired to fix the glaring problems with the client and its memory accumulation feature (long standing bug).
"New money" is an interesting term for more of CP Baker's money January 2005. A lot of good info in the bankruptcy documents. Also, now free from paying Atari the $ 5,000 they owed them.
The combat system. Mass farming of monsters due to no collision detection, where AoE spells can decimate 30 or more monsters crowding around a single character. The invisible health bar bug generally has be fixed (appeared a few months ago, didn't DB mention that?). Still, the bounding box on dragons make looting hard, along with targeting spells within mixed parties.
The performance. Still, they recommend systems have 512 meg of system memory, but really need 1 gig for enjoyable playability. DB may say, "Our servers are flawless," but not so their database, graphics rendering, and communication networking with clients. Never forget his words either, always they need confirmation or some sort of "prove it" reply. Still, players play with "gimped" settings, I'd prefer to see the spell animations (combat effects) during combat.
The content. Hmmm, 1096 bipedal quests, 380 new dragon quests, 2045 new monster types, etc. Well, I don't count a paragraph of "why", Kill X of Y monsters, "thank you, here's XP and coin" as a quest. Especially since during that task, a character loots trophy items that can be exchanged with a Trophy Hunter for XP and coin. Is that two quests? No. Besides, many players just save those trophies and use them to level another adventure class (I certainly hope a review mentions that approach to leveling secondary classes).
Dragons also have Kill X of Y monster tasks to add to their abilities. They are not quests. You seem to have omitted the original intent of 4 rites of passages for dragons - hatchling to juvenile, juvenile to young adult, adult to older adult, older adult to ancient - which better reflects a dragon aging over hundreds of game years. Hatchlings can be powered to become adults within a RL week (if not sooner).
The adult RoP to Ancient scheduled to be finished by mid August 2005? Well, DB said it, along with dragon lairs, were "on track" for December 2004. DBspeak.
Monster loot and purple necroflies with swords. Veteran Hz players will understand that inconsitency (on two levels even).
Yes, DB's vision of roleswapping. Level the non dragon in any school (set of skills) you want then just change the current adventure class (along with armor and items). Since all characters have immediate access to 200 spells they have scribed, a character can have a warrior-type role one day, mage-type another, and cleric-type the next time. Unfortunately, it also leads to a term another has phrased - uberped. Players taking their characters to the extreme in multi-schooling can become self-healing massive damage dealers (such as a dwarf flame bombing packs of wolves while using his dwarven toughness to be immune to damage for a few seconds, long enough for massive XP). I certainly hope that is in your review.
Dragons can't multi-school. So a bored player can gind level after level or build on their plot as a non-dragon or just fly around waiting for parts of the adult RoP to Ancient and, someday, dragon lairs. Actually, a player can "sleep" their dragon and play a biped character, looting massive amounts of hoard items to mule to their dragon character.
Hmmm, I only consider 3 main events - those that revolved around freeing the Dryads and Satyrs and the Novo machine that merged the 10 servers to 3 (late August/early Sept. 2004), which also created a major hassle for plot ownership, reorganized many of the land's monsters and resources, added land to explore. It took months to resolve bugs and issues related to the merge (many frustrated dragon hatchlings seeking adulthood).
Events lead by World Masters that are just raids by the Withered Aegis or repeating annual events don't change the world, as in "creates a world" and "evolution."
Unlike is a unique way of saying that characters can carry massive amounts of material (non-dragons more so), crafted items instantly (from 1 to 20 to 100), and just grind through levels deconstructing instantly.
Dragons can own plots, not develop them. Characters are limited in racial style structures to generally human with a few of the other races. A plot can't be completely dwarven or dryad or satyr in racial flavor.
True, dragons only need 30 to 40 levels of crafting as the Council of Elders don't care if Ancients learn more crafting knowledge. However, don't confuse playing a dragon due to game mechanics and playing a dragon due to Istarian lore. Horizons allows the former, but ignores the latter.
With that, I stand by my 6.1 rating.
Horizons has unfinished content and is using a performance challenged engine (their own Evolution Engine). Graphics and sound are above average for a game released Dec. 2003 (some dragon spell effects are not finished). Performance is still the bane of the game with its memory accumulation issue - FPS lowers over time (must endure log out/log in process to clear . . . . so have 512+ meg of system memory). FPS drops in some towns from rendering (and also fights with more than 5 other players or many monsters). Role playing is okay, but few game mechanics to support its rich lore - where role played races and classes could really shine. However, David Bowman admitted the game is "roleswapping" where any non-dragon character can perform any role in a party (need to swap out current school). Customer service is improving, but are notoriously slow to fix issues. The mature community is evident in game and official forums, but players do disrupt that by exploiting game bugs. The only game with a playable dragon, but most of its content is non-dragon focused (they are behind schedule in finishing the adult RoP to Ancient quest). Plot system is nice, but mainly human style buildings (no dragon lairs). If you want to play a character that can max everything (minimal weaknesses), can grind levels fast, and/or fly around as a dragon, Horizons may be your game.
I wonder how MMORPG.com rates Horizons in its "critical review," hopefully independent of advertising $$ from Tulga Games.
That's somewhat akin to saying that a Shetland pony and a Shire draft horse are the same mob, just rescaled & retextured. I agree that it would be nice to see more monster types, but if the resources aren't there to model and animate one, or if those folks are needed on a more important projects, then I'll live with *yet another* reskinned golem. I have no doubt the number is accurate, because a level 69 golem and a level 70 have different stats, the level 70 probably has an attack the level 69 doesn't, and most likely has a slightly different treasure table. They're both golems, but they are in fact different monsters.
Same with the numbers cited for quests. I disagree with the way the word 'quest' is used here, but, yes, every single mission a player can be offered is considered a 'quest', as the gaming industry defines the term. WoW does the same thing, though I understand their tasks have a little more lore and color. Still, they're just FedEx, Kill X of Y, or whatever tasks.
I think the article and the information in it is accurate. I don't read it as saying that all the problems are solved - because they aren't. I expect it will be at least a year for the new game client to be released, for example. The main point of the article is that the game is still here, that it is vastly improved over launch (IMHO, it's finally where it should have been at launch..), and that it deserves to be evaluated on what it offers today - not the state it was in at launch.
Guildleader, Mithril Council, Chaos
well you played last night ??
Umm the servers were down pretty much due to a problem with their plot reclaimations. In fact they were down most of the night. Roll back and all that.
*tongue in cheek*
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
AKA - Bruxail
I played this game when it came out (bought it about a week after release). It was actually fun back then, although I found the article to pretty much have covered everything that was wrong with it.
It was a decent game, it just didn't have enough polish. With all the things that supposedly changed with it, perhaps it really is a good game again. I've created a trial account rather than reactivating my original account, just to be safe. But from playing the game before, I'd have to say that creating a trial account yourself and giving the game a looksee, whether you're new to it or it's old news, I think any of you would probably benefit from giving it another shot.
At the very least you'll have experienced one of MMO histories biggest stumbles. For good or bad anyways.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
>>Basically, Lepidus contacted David Bowman (or he contacted her; not clear, but it doesn't matter). She interviewed him. He gave her his take on the game (spin positive! what a shock!), and she logged in and ran around on Blight as a low-level nobody for an hour or so, tops. Then paraphrased what he said about the game, coupled with her hour of "experience" (nothing really to add but fluff, in my opinion), and wrote her resulting "take" on the game.<< posted on horizons offical forum
This person made a really good point. Dana how long did you play Horizons? Did you actually manage to get off New Brommel and explorer around the Istaria itself? Are you still playing now?
Really if you want to have a good review I suggest playing this game for at least two months, try to get at least level 35-40 adventure and see about these quests they are talking about. I think you've interviewed the wrong people, David Bowmans words doesnt seem to be accurate. Hes not going to bash his own product or say anything negative about it. The right people to be interviewed would be the veterans who are still playing Horizons.
Think of this way if wanted the best accurate reviews of a car, you're not going to listen to the president of GM. hes not going to say "our cars arent very good, they dont well in crash test, and o yeah you know ford they make better cars" you think he would say that? no. where would you like to get your information from customers, right?
Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online