I'm with the OP on this issue. One of the only reasons I find myself not getting sucked into EVE is the fact I can never catch up to vets who started before me regardless of how much effort I put into playing. I am a competitive gamer, I like fair fights that are determined by player skill, not by the amount of skills a player has obtained through months of AFK skill grinding while paying the sub to play.
I have an EVE account, really loved the game... but again if I can't catch up at least a little to be able to do something semi-fun and / or useful to a guild why should I play?
I know EVE is a game that likely gets better through time as you gain skills... but damn even 3 months to get to the basics of a PvP build is a lot of time just to get to the point of having some fun.
Can you mention what you mean with basic pvp skills, that takes three months to get. And also why you need that to have fun? I am pretty shure that someone will kill you with ease with 1/3 of the SP.
For instance a T2 fitted Hurricane can take 60 days to get trained from a starter character, while a T2 fit mixed with T1 guns with the almost exact same stats using regular named modules can take you 25 days train.
(Just to make shure that you don't believe that there is some kind of wtfpwn everyone you meet, for intance.)
You could very well end up spendaing 6months regarding of you skillpoint to meet up with a new fleetship that are used within the alliance you choose. If so, if that happens, what will you do then?
A better way to do it would be to just enhance the training speed boost for newbies. Something like 5x to 1M then 4x to 2M then 3x to 3M then 2x to 4M, this will get new players quickly into 4M SP which is a much more suitable number than 1.6M nowadays.
CCP have already boosted SP gains for new players when they removed learning skills and raised the attributes, and when they alse allowed remaps.
Only people that do not know the game think they need a bunch of skill points to be useful or compet in Eve. Mining for a corp can be done at almost any time and just gets better...that is useful for a corp. Flying a basic T1 frig in a wing can be useful to a corp with very limited skills in pvp. It is more knowing your part and place in a wing and not expecting to be the one dropping a hammer on someone.
Only people that do not know the game think they need a bunch of skill points to be useful or compet in Eve. Mining for a corp can be done at almost any time and just gets better...that is useful for a corp. Flying a basic T1 frig in a wing can be useful to a corp with very limited skills in pvp. It is more knowing your part and place in a wing and not expecting to be the one dropping a hammer on someone.
Yes, a simple example is someone that gets killed by jumping a gate is pretty useless compared to the new player with low SP that listens and knows not to pony the gate...
i also believe similar things, not necessarly comparable things, is why alot of corps have set SP points, with sometimes and exclusion made on individual basis.
As a new player to Eve, 8 days in, I like the sytem the way it is. I left other games because they were too player friendly. I don't want it to be easy. I don't want to be awesome day 1 or even 6 months in. The formula CCP has in place is perfectly fine for me.
Only people that do not know the game think they need a bunch of skill points to be useful or compet in Eve. Mining for a corp can be done at almost any time and just gets better...that is useful for a corp. Flying a basic T1 frig in a wing can be useful to a corp with very limited skills in pvp. It is more knowing your part and place in a wing and not expecting to be the one dropping a hammer on someone.
Yes, a simple example is someone that gets killed by jumping a gate is pretty useless compared to the new player with low SP that listens and knows not to pony the gate...
i also believe similar things, not necessarly comparable things, is why alot of corps have set SP points, with sometimes and exclusion made on individual basis.
Some corps... have trainer corps for lower SP pilots that are used for hi and low sec. Teach them the ropes and offer them the "exclusion" to the main corp.
Only people that do not know the game think they need a bunch of skill points to be useful or compet in Eve. Mining for a corp can be done at almost any time and just gets better...that is useful for a corp. Flying a basic T1 frig in a wing can be useful to a corp with very limited skills in pvp. It is more knowing your part and place in a wing and not expecting to be the one dropping a hammer on someone.
Yes, a simple example is someone that gets killed by jumping a gate is pretty useless compared to the new player with low SP that listens and knows not to pony the gate...
i also believe similar things, not necessarly comparable things, is why alot of corps have set SP points, with sometimes and exclusion made on individual basis.
Some corps... have trainer corps for lower SP pilots that are used for hi and low sec. Teach them the ropes and offer them the "exclusion" to the main corp.
A pvper could train skills for less then 3 days and be a fine asset to any pvp corperation ", right...I've talked about people like you coming on this thread and blowing smoke up potential players nethers and here you go and prove my point. No...zero....zilch...good PvP corp will even consider a such a noob pilot. That player might, might, get into a noob corp...but he'll be hating it and probably drop the game when he realizes that joining that noob corp will bring nothing but headaches to him when they refuse to replinish all the ships he'll be losing.
The original quote that do not only imply a three day old character...
Regardless, " If you think we might be for you well join our ingame channel.". That quote lays more importance than 3M sp or 13M sp.
Answer this question yourself. Why would this corporation think it is important for you come and chat with them on their ingame channel?
The reasing behind getting an accelarated path to 10M SP to be able to join corporations, and/or to be able to compete is just not valid.
A pvper could train skills for less then 3 days and be a fine asset to any pvp corperation ", right...I've talked about people like you coming on this thread and blowing smoke up potential players nethers and here you go and prove my point. No...zero....zilch...good PvP corp will even consider a such a noob pilot. That player might, might, get into a noob corp...but he'll be hating it and probably drop the game when he realizes that joining that noob corp will bring nothing but headaches to him when they refuse to replinish all the ships he'll be losing.
The original quote that do not only imply a three day old character...
Regardless, " If you think we might be for you well join our ingame channel.". That quote lays more importance than 3M sp or 13M sp.
Answer this question yourself. Why would this corporation think it is important for you come and chat with them on their ingame channel?
The reasing behind getting an accelarated path to 10M SP to be able to join corporations, and/or to be able to compete is just not valid.
Would be great for making spies or a character that seems a noob to cause problems by attacking a corps ally. All kinds of great harassing possiblities with accelerated characters.
I'm with the OP on this issue. One of the only reasons I find myself not getting sucked into EVE is the fact I can never catch up to vets who started before me regardless of how much effort I put into playing. I am a competitive gamer, I like fair fights that are determined by player skill, not by the amount of skills a player has obtained through months of AFK skill grinding while paying the sub to play.
I have an EVE account, really loved the game... but again if I can't catch up at least a little to be able to do something semi-fun and / or useful to a guild why should I play?
I know EVE is a game that likely gets better through time as you gain skills... but damn even 3 months to get to the basics of a PvP build is a lot of time just to get to the point of having some fun.
Well if your going to complain about fair fights just forget playing EvE. Its not about fair fights outside of the alliance tournament. If you can gang up on a person so you completely overwhelm them 7-1 thats a fair fight in EvE. 200-30 sure... Suprise Hotdrop of a cap fleet sure.... Spider tanking sure thing... Notice something about all those things? They all require more then just you. EvE is about knifing the person your about to box with in the side before the fight begins, its everything but a fair fight. EvE is a knock down, dog eat dog, street fight where the fight is determined whether it was fair or not by the winner.
This is why SP don't matter. There is no arbitrary cap on how many friends you can bring along. There is no silly arenas. its do what ever you can do to win. The vets who have been playing EVE for a while know that, New players are not taught and complain because they think there is some sort of honor in EvE PVP. You ever want to do some 1v1 in EvE let me know since it will be an easy killmail. Not because I have more SP then you but because I'm going to bring 3-4 more people to the fight.
A pvper could train skills for less then 3 days and be a fine asset to any pvp corperation ", right...I've talked about people like you coming on this thread and blowing smoke up potential players nethers and here you go and prove my point. No...zero....zilch...good PvP corp will even consider a such a noob pilot. That player might, might, get into a noob corp...but he'll be hating it and probably drop the game when he realizes that joining that noob corp will bring nothing but headaches to him when they refuse to replinish all the ships he'll be losing.
The original quote that do not only imply a three day old character...
Regardless, " If you think we might be for you well join our ingame channel.". That quote lays more importance than 3M sp or 13M sp.
Answer this question yourself. Why would this corporation think it is important for you come and chat with them on their ingame channel?
The reasing behind getting an accelarated path to 10M SP to be able to join corporations, and/or to be able to compete is just not valid.
Would be great for making spies or a character that seems a noob to cause problems by attacking a corps ally. All kinds of great harassing possiblities with accelerated characters.
I agree with this aswell (ofcourse).
The list on why a corp accept or reject people is pretty long. And it is pretty hard to sum them all up.
I just wish that discussing this accelareted SP gain is really moot when it comes to join that "elitish" pvp corp that the person believes is impossible at the moment. If one can't join a good corp, a corp that is good in his/hers eyes, currently. There is enough reasons to believe that a change like this won't change that.
The SP demands will just be will just raised in the end.
There is other things that is needed (someone posted a list earlier that was good) and SP was only one thing in that list. For some corporations that list is long and for other corporation a proven killboard is the main thing in the list. This other corp wants you to show good kills, have a number cruiser kills with frigate or comparable.
I can only make my current corporation as an example. Where people that both have had more and lower SP than I had been accepted and later kicked for reason that had nothing to do with their SP pool. A few months old characters to characters that in the eyes of the OP would be considered a veteran. They have also rejected capital pilots as their background history rang to many alarmclocks, and then went right ahead recruiting a pilot that barely just could fit T2 frigates.
I consider my corp to be good, in my eyes they are really good.
In alot of those occations a player that joins in on the 10:1 (unfair) fight is more use than a über SP pilot that do not. Aswell as that miner that joins 7/10 mining operations is more usefull than the so called veteran that joined 3/10 mining operations.
Then we have the reasons that you have contributed with that last two posts, spyprotection, willingness to spend time learning and prove themself.
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Make it possible to accelarate SP as a red herring. That will just bounce back ina few months and bite CCP in the butt.
I have just brought three of my friends to eve and the biggest problem to them is a lack of skills, while I have been playing for 5-6 years .
2-3 months to just get them into level 4 missions and atleast a couple of months more to prepare them for pvp more so If I want them to join me in recons/t3 with good suport skills.
Why should they haveto wait 6 months to join me in the places I want to go even with level 5 implants it is still alot of months.
You could jump in a frigate and go out and have fun with them from day one.. See the 2-3 months to get to level 4 missions.. Why? Is mission running why they joined you in EVE?
Yeah ok day one pvp isnt what it used to be since there are no skill allocation at character creation anymore as I understand it.. But you could have a nasty little frigate fleet in a week or so.
Its not like they should need money from missions.. I mean you could front the bill untill they start earning on their own
I am taking a long break from pvp in eve, before I was quebber my earlier account was Rho legate, I love pvp but need to be away.
Being complete newbies to eve my friends see missions as amazing fun, they blow up npc's with almost childish glee on teamspeak, I pimped out a few pvp ships myself from frigates to nightmares trying to get back some of that "innocent" fun.
At the same time I am about to start training them all the basics of pvp, no doubt frig pvp is amazing fun and in time we may wander down into 0.0 with a recon/black ops fleet.
The long end of it is that SP matter to me because they limit what I can do in the game. What if I want to fly that big fleet commanding ship? I'd have to grind SP for MONTHS just to be able to do that regardless of how much time I might spend trying to better myself in the game.
As much as I like the train over time method in EVE I can't help but feel I'd like a similar system to Darkfall where you gain skills by using them and playing the game. If EVE had a hybrid system that allowed me to gain skills while playing I'd likely be alright with the game because I would know catching up is possible if I worked hard.
Say SP don't matter all you want. You guys with tens of millions of them already of course they don't matter to you.
The long end of it is that SP matter to me because they limit what I can do in the game. What if I want to fly that big fleet commanding ship? I'd have to grind SP for MONTHS just to be able to do that regardless of how much time I might spend trying to better myself in the game.
As much as I like the train over time method in EVE I can't help but feel I'd like a similar system to Darkfall where you gain skills by using them and playing the game. If EVE had a hybrid system that allowed me to gain skills while playing I'd likely be alright with the game because I would know catching up is possible if I worked hard.
Say SP don't matter all you want. You guys with tens of millions of them already of course they don't matter to you.
Working hard to be able to get better implants, getting the ISK to afford better implants is one way.
How much time are you talking about that you want to cut off the current training time?
Problem with getting that super-duper ship early is that you can not afford it. If PvP is your dream you will probably get wiped out..then you whine to your corp for a new ship and they kick you out. EvE is different than a lot of games in that you have to be able to afford to PvP. If you can not afford two of the exact same ships with the same equipment you probably should not be flying it in PvP. You need far less to do missions.
The long end of it is that SP matter to me because they limit what I can do in the game. What if I want to fly that big fleet commanding ship? I'd have to grind SP for MONTHS just to be able to do that regardless of how much time I might spend trying to better myself in the game.
As much as I like the train over time method in EVE I can't help but feel I'd like a similar system to Darkfall where you gain skills by using them and playing the game. If EVE had a hybrid system that allowed me to gain skills while playing I'd likely be alright with the game because I would know catching up is possible if I worked hard.
Say SP don't matter all you want. You guys with tens of millions of them already of course they don't matter to you.
Working hard to be able to get better implants, getting the ISK to afford better implants is one way.
How much time are you talking about that you want to cut off the current training time?
At this point in the game since it has been out for 8 years? At least in half if not more. If vets have a problem having more people being competitive they can go fuck themselves. I'm not spending half a year or more just to feel as though I've gotten somewhere in a game nearing the 10 year mark... just not happening.
If the game were to be launching new I'd play in a heart-beat because I'd be on the same level of everyone else and the only person to blame for falling behind would be myself. This is just one of those games like Darkfall where if you're the new guy joining in late the game just isn't the same as those who started playing when the game was new.
1) Veterans will never give up their skill point advantage. They know how important it is and it makes the game funner for THEM to have this advantage. It is always more fun to be superior in a competetive PVP game.
2) Veterans will continue to argue (via many subtle diversions which I outlined in post #126) how it is actually not an advantage to have more skillpoints. They hate the notion of "pay 2 win" but that is exactly what EVE is (by paying more months or buying a veteran character), and they can never admit it to themselves. Pointing out to a vet that they have paid to win shatters the foundations of their self worth
3) Veterans call the shots with CCP, so this situation will probably never change. The hilarious example of how they gave all vets free skillpoints to compensate them for a game mechancs change is all you need to know to prove this. CCP can still be profitable since veterans add more and more alt accounts, funded by the PLEX that noobs purchase in order to get a leg up in the game, often by buying veteran characters which is really the only viable option for a noob
Just remember, EVE is truly a game of and for the vets. That is the fundamental essence of the game...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Wow I said I was done with this thread but I guess I am not, becuase once again it seems somone is making it sound like I am advocating just giving new players 10 mil SP.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID.
It would still take a plyer time to earn the 10mil SP, it just wouldn't takea whole frikking year or more.
As for your comment, " A pvper could train skills for less then 3 days and be a fine asset to any pvp corperation ", right...I've talked about people like you coming on this thread and blowing smoke up potential players nethers and here you go and prove my point. No...zero....zilch...good PvP corp will even consider a such a noob pilot.
1. No decent PvP corp worth a damn is going to pick up someone who has just spent their time grinding missions to get 10M sp anyways. "OHAI I RUN MANY MISHUNS AND HAVE LOTS OF SP RECRUIT ME NAO!" Killboards are often referenced for recruitment and 0 kills is going to reflect badly on any applicant, REGARDLESS of SP amount.
That player might, might, get into a noob corp...but he'll be hating it and probably drop the game when he realizes that joining that noob corp will bring nothing but headaches to him when they refuse to replinish all the ships he'll be losing.
2. Plenty of great "newbie" corps around that teach survival and pvp essentials, some even offer ship reimbursement.
Both of these Corps offer fundamentals of PvP and survival not to mention PLENTY of experience that can't be beat by a free handout of Skill points.
Training for 72hrs in EVE won't even net you 200k SP for a noob. What are you going to do for a corp. Fly a t1 frigate with gunnery skills at level 2, motion prediction at level 2, small (x type) turrets at level 2, maybe have frigate to level 3, and maybe have what...let me see....have propulsion jamming to level 1, electronics to level 3(need that atleast to 3to even get propulsion jamming skill).
3.) Good tackling skills are essential and are imperative, and no I don't mean "Propulsion Jamming V" I mean understanding how to tackle and actually doing it. Getting a capital kill starts with 1 point. that 200k SP newb thats "worthless" just wrecked a vets day.
A couple of other skills, mechanic to level 2, and engineering to level 2. Unless you spent skill points in cybernetics to level 3 you cannot even get into beta implants(which can give you +3 to your atributes) because I doubt a noob corp is willing to spend the 25+ mil to get you into them, and then...unless you have earned enough faction points for that particular station you are playing out of you cannot get a jump clone so getting those level 3's would be a waste of time - even though they would give you the ability to learn faster. So you would most likely barely be scrapping out 150k SP in 72hrs as a noob.
Wow...I can go on and on...
I am advocating allowing new players some means of earning SP faster than they do now so that they are not so far behind the players that have been playing for 3+ years and have upwards of 30+ mil SP. Allowing a new player, or any player with less than 10mil SP, would allow that player to get upto speed faster than they do now.
I REPEAT.
Nobody is advocating "giving" anyone anything for free....they would still have to "EARN IT!" It just wouldn't take a year of subscription fees to get it. It might take 6 months, but no 12+!
4.) Sitting in a ship and "flying" it is not the same as being able to field it and fly it properly. If anything the free SP is just going to exasperate the current problem with new players that feel they can't compete... "WTH I have perfect skills and just bought the dramiel with all my money but got popped by a (insert "inferior" t1 or t2 hull) this game sux! I QUIT"
1) Veterans will never give up their skill point advantage. They know how important it is and it makes the game funner for THEM to have this advantage. It is always more fun to be superior in a competetive PVP game.
2) Veterans will continue to argue (via many subtle diversions which I outlined in post #126) how it is actually not an advantage to have more skillpoints. They hate the notion of "pay 2 win" but that is exactly what EVE is (by paying more months or buying a veteran character), and they can never admit it to themselves. Pointing out to a vet that they have paid to win shatters the foundations of their self worth
3) Veterans call the shots with CCP, so this situation will probably never change. The hilarious example of how they gave all vets free skillpoints to compensate them for a game mechancs change is all you need to know to prove this. CCP can still be profitable since veterans add more and more alt accounts, funded by the PLEX that noobs purchase in order to get a leg up in the game, often by buying veteran characters which is really the only viable option for a noob
Just remember, EVE is truly a game of and for the vets. That is the fundamental essence of the game...
ANY MMO where you have a Veteran player vs. a new player is always weighted against the newbie. Suck it up, why should the veteran player be punished for their loyalty and hardwork?
Infact EvE smooths out the playing field more than most games. It's not a simple matter of skill points, but what ship (size, fitting, resists) and who you're flying with.
Stop thinking in terms of WoW PvP where leet gear + high levels = winner. It's no where NEAR that simple. EvE forces you to think, something some people these days seem to hate. Intelligence and common sense > Skill points ANY day. So what that guy has more skill points, get yourselr into an assault ship (relatively low SP) and get some friends together. Trust me when I say it's VERY satisfying watching a veteran player lose a 6 billion isk ship due to overconfidence and planning on our part.
Quite simply and without malice: Learn to play the game. Forget what other MMO's have taught you because this game is completely different. Empty your glass grasshopper, class is in session if you're up for it.
1) Veterans will never give up their skill point advantage. They know how important it is and it makes the game funner for THEM to have this advantage. It is always more fun to be superior in a competetive PVP game.
2) Veterans will continue to argue (via many subtle diversions which I outlined in post #126) how it is actually not an advantage to have more skillpoints. They hate the notion of "pay 2 win" but that is exactly what EVE is (by paying more months or buying a veteran character), and they can never admit it to themselves. Pointing out to a vet that they have paid to win shatters the foundations of their self worth
3) Veterans call the shots with CCP, so this situation will probably never change. The hilarious example of how they gave all vets free skillpoints to compensate them for a game mechancs change is all you need to know to prove this. CCP can still be profitable since veterans add more and more alt accounts, funded by the PLEX that noobs purchase in order to get a leg up in the game, often by buying veteran characters which is really the only viable option for a noob
Just remember, EVE is truly a game of and for the vets. That is the fundamental essence of the game...
ANY MMO where you have a Veteran player vs. a new player is always weighted against the newbie. Suck it up, why should the veteran player be punished for their loyalty and hardwork?
Infact EvE smooths out the playing field more than most games. It's not a simple matter of skill points, but what ship (size, fitting, resists) and who you're flying with.
Stop thinking in terms of WoW PvP where leet gear + high levels = winner. It's no where NEAR that simple. EvE forces you to think, something some people these days seem to hate. Intelligence and common sense > Skill points ANY day. So what that guy has more skill points, get yourselr into an assault ship (relatively low SP) and get some friends together. Trust me when I say it's VERY satisfying watching a veteran player lose a 6 billion isk ship due to overconfidence and planning on our part.
Quite simply and without malice: Learn to play the game. Forget what other MMO's have taught you because this game is completely different. Empty your glass grasshopper, class is in session if you're up for it.
LOL. Funny you say that EVE is not WoW PvP with "high levels" + "leet gear" + "good guild" = winner, but then you also say that EVE PvP is "skill points" + "ship size/fitting/resists" + "good corp" = winner
Pretty funny LOL.
But that is just more diversions by a vet cluching onto their skill point advantage. You can never get a vet to give up their skill point advantage (think levels in WoW, if you could actually never get to equal level as the long-timers).
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
1) Veterans will never give up their skill point advantage. They know how important it is and it makes the game funner for THEM to have this advantage. It is always more fun to be superior in a competetive PVP game.
2) Veterans will continue to argue (via many subtle diversions which I outlined in post #126) how it is actually not an advantage to have more skillpoints. They hate the notion of "pay 2 win" but that is exactly what EVE is (by paying more months or buying a veteran character), and they can never admit it to themselves. Pointing out to a vet that they have paid to win shatters the foundations of their self worth
3) Veterans call the shots with CCP, so this situation will probably never change. The hilarious example of how they gave all vets free skillpoints to compensate them for a game mechancs change is all you need to know to prove this. CCP can still be profitable since veterans add more and more alt accounts, funded by the PLEX that noobs purchase in order to get a leg up in the game, often by buying veteran characters which is really the only viable option for a noob
Just remember, EVE is truly a game of and for the vets. That is the fundamental essence of the game...
Vets of the game knows that SP is not everything.
That is also one reason to why my corp kicks some veterans but keeps some new players.
The long end of it is that SP matter to me because they limit what I can do in the game. What if I want to fly that big fleet commanding ship? I'd have to grind SP for MONTHS just to be able to do that regardless of how much time I might spend trying to better myself in the game.
As much as I like the train over time method in EVE I can't help but feel I'd like a similar system to Darkfall where you gain skills by using them and playing the game. If EVE had a hybrid system that allowed me to gain skills while playing I'd likely be alright with the game because I would know catching up is possible if I worked hard.
Say SP don't matter all you want. You guys with tens of millions of them already of course they don't matter to you.
And what good would it do to have such a ship if you didn't know how to work well with a fleet? It's funny, the guys you're cursing for having all those skill points took the time to get them, yet you can't? Cry me a river. Frankly, with your attitude it's just as well you don't play. Eve isn't for everyone and that's fine with me and apparently it's fine with CCP. Imagine that, a game developer who feels the integrity of their game is more important than making lots of money by making it too accessible and overly easy.
I hesitated to say yes mainly because of what was written alongside the yes but my answer still is yes, it would be cool if they did that. I find it easy to accept this because, knowing how CCP has handled skill changes (e.g the recent removal of Connection skill books and the learning skills) I believe they would give every veteran player 10mil SP to play with. Now why I don't think CCP will actually do it is because CCP WILL HAVE TO GIVE 10 FECKING MIL SP to EVERY VET PLAYER.... that's like saying hey guys why don't you go just fly every ship you want, just go treat yourself to a new titan or something...
1) Veterans will never give up their skill point advantage. They know how important it is and it makes the game funner for THEM to have this advantage. It is always more fun to be superior in a competetive PVP game.
2) Veterans will continue to argue (via many subtle diversions which I outlined in post #126) how it is actually not an advantage to have more skillpoints. They hate the notion of "pay 2 win" but that is exactly what EVE is (by paying more months or buying a veteran character), and they can never admit it to themselves. Pointing out to a vet that they have paid to win shatters the foundations of their self worth
3) Veterans call the shots with CCP, so this situation will probably never change. The hilarious example of how they gave all vets free skillpoints to compensate them for a game mechancs change is all you need to know to prove this. CCP can still be profitable since veterans add more and more alt accounts, funded by the PLEX that noobs purchase in order to get a leg up in the game, often by buying veteran characters which is really the only viable option for a noob
Just remember, EVE is truly a game of and for the vets. That is the fundamental essence of the game...
ANY MMO where you have a Veteran player vs. a new player is always weighted against the newbie. Suck it up, why should the veteran player be punished for their loyalty and hardwork?
Infact EvE smooths out the playing field more than most games. It's not a simple matter of skill points, but what ship (size, fitting, resists) and who you're flying with.
Stop thinking in terms of WoW PvP where leet gear + high levels = winner. It's no where NEAR that simple. EvE forces you to think, something some people these days seem to hate. Intelligence and common sense > Skill points ANY day. So what that guy has more skill points, get yourselr into an assault ship (relatively low SP) and get some friends together. Trust me when I say it's VERY satisfying watching a veteran player lose a 6 billion isk ship due to overconfidence and planning on our part.
Quite simply and without malice: Learn to play the game. Forget what other MMO's have taught you because this game is completely different. Empty your glass grasshopper, class is in session if you're up for it.
LOL. Funny you say that EVE is not WoW PvP with "high levels" + "leet gear" + "good guild" = winner, but then you also say that EVE PvP is "skill points" + "ship size/fitting/resists" + "good corp" = winner
Pretty funny LOL.
But that is just more diversions by a vet cluching onto their skill point advantage. You can never get a vet to give up their skill point advantage (think levels in WoW, if you could actually never get to equal level as the long-timers).
LOL. Funny.
Reading comprehension is defined as the level of understanding of a writing.
Proficient reading depends on the ability to recognize words quickly and effortlessly.If word recognition is difficult, students use too much of their processing capacity to read individual words which interferes with their ability to comprehend what is read.
I'll break it down for you."It's not a simple matter of skill points, but what ship (size, fitting, resists) and who you're flying with." another fine excerpt "Intelligence and common sense > Skill points ANY day."
The long end of it is that SP matter to me because they limit what I can do in the game. What if I want to fly that big fleet commanding ship? I'd have to grind SP for MONTHS just to be able to do that regardless of how much time I might spend trying to better myself in the game.
As much as I like the train over time method in EVE I can't help but feel I'd like a similar system to Darkfall where you gain skills by using them and playing the game. If EVE had a hybrid system that allowed me to gain skills while playing I'd likely be alright with the game because I would know catching up is possible if I worked hard.
Say SP don't matter all you want. You guys with tens of millions of them already of course they don't matter to you.
Working hard to be able to get better implants, getting the ISK to afford better implants is one way.
How much time are you talking about that you want to cut off the current training time?
At this point in the game since it has been out for 8 years? At least in half if not more. If vets have a problem having more people being competitive they can go fuck themselves. I'm not spending half a year or more just to feel as though I've gotten somewhere in a game nearing the 10 year mark... just not happening.
If the game were to be launching new I'd play in a heart-beat because I'd be on the same level of everyone else and the only person to blame for falling behind would be myself. This is just one of those games like Darkfall where if you're the new guy joining in late the game just isn't the same as those who started playing when the game was new.
You have reasons of your own that makes you only have eyes for a command ship and I trust that people already have tried to convince you that you should look at other things meanwhile you get to the point you can field a command ship.
CCP have already accelerated the learning curve for new players during the years, and they have alse given us the options accelerate it even further. This is not enough today. Point being in the end the time it takes to get things is always to long for some people.
I honestly do not want to offend you too much here, but seeing as you have the mind set so hard on that command ship I believe you belong to this group of 'some people'.
Currently my best skillplan for a Nighthawk is 119days,4months 10days. That is to long, you want it in 2 months. This is optimized by tools already given to us by CCP from 150days, also note that this 150days is also a shorter time given to us by CCP with changes that we can not do anything about anymore. You are not content with this possibility and I suspect the next group of people will not be content with your 2 months either when that times comes.
This for a ship that is is really quite high up in the tiers.
Neglecting the things you can do during these 4 months, also neglecting the magnitude of options you will get if you prolong this (optimized) training time to let's say 5 months (also optmized) to include small diversions on the training plan.
(What is the things that you expect to accomplish in a command ship anyway that makes you look besides this game that you won't be able to do in other ships ?)
(I also suspect the next topic will be that it takes to much work and time to get the ISK needed in this games.)
Comments
Can you mention what you mean with basic pvp skills, that takes three months to get. And also why you need that to have fun? I am pretty shure that someone will kill you with ease with 1/3 of the SP.
For instance a T2 fitted Hurricane can take 60 days to get trained from a starter character, while a T2 fit mixed with T1 guns with the almost exact same stats using regular named modules can take you 25 days train.
(Just to make shure that you don't believe that there is some kind of wtfpwn everyone you meet, for intance.)
You could very well end up spendaing 6months regarding of you skillpoint to meet up with a new fleetship that are used within the alliance you choose. If so, if that happens, what will you do then?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
CCP have already boosted SP gains for new players when they removed learning skills and raised the attributes, and when they alse allowed remaps.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Only people that do not know the game think they need a bunch of skill points to be useful or compet in Eve. Mining for a corp can be done at almost any time and just gets better...that is useful for a corp. Flying a basic T1 frig in a wing can be useful to a corp with very limited skills in pvp. It is more knowing your part and place in a wing and not expecting to be the one dropping a hammer on someone.
Yes, a simple example is someone that gets killed by jumping a gate is pretty useless compared to the new player with low SP that listens and knows not to pony the gate...
i also believe similar things, not necessarly comparable things, is why alot of corps have set SP points, with sometimes and exclusion made on individual basis.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
As a new player to Eve, 8 days in, I like the sytem the way it is. I left other games because they were too player friendly. I don't want it to be easy. I don't want to be awesome day 1 or even 6 months in. The formula CCP has in place is perfectly fine for me.
Some corps... have trainer corps for lower SP pilots that are used for hi and low sec. Teach them the ropes and offer them the "exclusion" to the main corp.
^^
Yeah
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
The original quote that do not only imply a three day old character...
Regardless, " If you think we might be for you well join our ingame channel.". That quote lays more importance than 3M sp or 13M sp.
Answer this question yourself. Why would this corporation think it is important for you come and chat with them on their ingame channel?
The reasing behind getting an accelarated path to 10M SP to be able to join corporations, and/or to be able to compete is just not valid.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Would be great for making spies or a character that seems a noob to cause problems by attacking a corps ally. All kinds of great harassing possiblities with accelerated characters.
Well if your going to complain about fair fights just forget playing EvE. Its not about fair fights outside of the alliance tournament. If you can gang up on a person so you completely overwhelm them 7-1 thats a fair fight in EvE. 200-30 sure... Suprise Hotdrop of a cap fleet sure.... Spider tanking sure thing... Notice something about all those things? They all require more then just you. EvE is about knifing the person your about to box with in the side before the fight begins, its everything but a fair fight. EvE is a knock down, dog eat dog, street fight where the fight is determined whether it was fair or not by the winner.
This is why SP don't matter. There is no arbitrary cap on how many friends you can bring along. There is no silly arenas. its do what ever you can do to win. The vets who have been playing EVE for a while know that, New players are not taught and complain because they think there is some sort of honor in EvE PVP. You ever want to do some 1v1 in EvE let me know since it will be an easy killmail. Not because I have more SP then you but because I'm going to bring 3-4 more people to the fight.
I agree with this aswell (ofcourse).
The list on why a corp accept or reject people is pretty long. And it is pretty hard to sum them all up.
I just wish that discussing this accelareted SP gain is really moot when it comes to join that "elitish" pvp corp that the person believes is impossible at the moment. If one can't join a good corp, a corp that is good in his/hers eyes, currently. There is enough reasons to believe that a change like this won't change that.
The SP demands will just be will just raised in the end.
There is other things that is needed (someone posted a list earlier that was good) and SP was only one thing in that list. For some corporations that list is long and for other corporation a proven killboard is the main thing in the list. This other corp wants you to show good kills, have a number cruiser kills with frigate or comparable.
I can only make my current corporation as an example. Where people that both have had more and lower SP than I had been accepted and later kicked for reason that had nothing to do with their SP pool. A few months old characters to characters that in the eyes of the OP would be considered a veteran. They have also rejected capital pilots as their background history rang to many alarmclocks, and then went right ahead recruiting a pilot that barely just could fit T2 frigates.
I consider my corp to be good, in my eyes they are really good.
In alot of those occations a player that joins in on the 10:1 (unfair) fight is more use than a über SP pilot that do not. Aswell as that miner that joins 7/10 mining operations is more usefull than the so called veteran that joined 3/10 mining operations.
Then we have the reasons that you have contributed with that last two posts, spyprotection, willingness to spend time learning and prove themself.
---
Make it possible to accelarate SP as a red herring. That will just bounce back ina few months and bite CCP in the butt.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Quebber
I am taking a long break from pvp in eve, before I was quebber my earlier account was Rho legate, I love pvp but need to be away.
Being complete newbies to eve my friends see missions as amazing fun, they blow up npc's with almost childish glee on teamspeak, I pimped out a few pvp ships myself from frigates to nightmares trying to get back some of that "innocent" fun.
At the same time I am about to start training them all the basics of pvp, no doubt frig pvp is amazing fun and in time we may wander down into 0.0 with a recon/black ops fleet.
The time cost is just alot.
The long end of it is that SP matter to me because they limit what I can do in the game. What if I want to fly that big fleet commanding ship? I'd have to grind SP for MONTHS just to be able to do that regardless of how much time I might spend trying to better myself in the game.
As much as I like the train over time method in EVE I can't help but feel I'd like a similar system to Darkfall where you gain skills by using them and playing the game. If EVE had a hybrid system that allowed me to gain skills while playing I'd likely be alright with the game because I would know catching up is possible if I worked hard.
Say SP don't matter all you want. You guys with tens of millions of them already of course they don't matter to you.
Full Sail University - Game Design
Working hard to be able to get better implants, getting the ISK to afford better implants is one way.
How much time are you talking about that you want to cut off the current training time?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Problem with getting that super-duper ship early is that you can not afford it. If PvP is your dream you will probably get wiped out..then you whine to your corp for a new ship and they kick you out. EvE is different than a lot of games in that you have to be able to afford to PvP. If you can not afford two of the exact same ships with the same equipment you probably should not be flying it in PvP. You need far less to do missions.
At this point in the game since it has been out for 8 years? At least in half if not more. If vets have a problem having more people being competitive they can go fuck themselves. I'm not spending half a year or more just to feel as though I've gotten somewhere in a game nearing the 10 year mark... just not happening.
If the game were to be launching new I'd play in a heart-beat because I'd be on the same level of everyone else and the only person to blame for falling behind would be myself. This is just one of those games like Darkfall where if you're the new guy joining in late the game just isn't the same as those who started playing when the game was new.
Full Sail University - Game Design
My view is it is a very simple situation:
1) Veterans will never give up their skill point advantage. They know how important it is and it makes the game funner for THEM to have this advantage. It is always more fun to be superior in a competetive PVP game.
2) Veterans will continue to argue (via many subtle diversions which I outlined in post #126) how it is actually not an advantage to have more skillpoints. They hate the notion of "pay 2 win" but that is exactly what EVE is (by paying more months or buying a veteran character), and they can never admit it to themselves. Pointing out to a vet that they have paid to win shatters the foundations of their self worth
3) Veterans call the shots with CCP, so this situation will probably never change. The hilarious example of how they gave all vets free skillpoints to compensate them for a game mechancs change is all you need to know to prove this. CCP can still be profitable since veterans add more and more alt accounts, funded by the PLEX that noobs purchase in order to get a leg up in the game, often by buying veteran characters which is really the only viable option for a noob
Just remember, EVE is truly a game of and for the vets. That is the fundamental essence of the game...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
ANY MMO where you have a Veteran player vs. a new player is always weighted against the newbie. Suck it up, why should the veteran player be punished for their loyalty and hardwork?
Infact EvE smooths out the playing field more than most games. It's not a simple matter of skill points, but what ship (size, fitting, resists) and who you're flying with.
Stop thinking in terms of WoW PvP where leet gear + high levels = winner. It's no where NEAR that simple. EvE forces you to think, something some people these days seem to hate. Intelligence and common sense > Skill points ANY day. So what that guy has more skill points, get yourselr into an assault ship (relatively low SP) and get some friends together. Trust me when I say it's VERY satisfying watching a veteran player lose a 6 billion isk ship due to overconfidence and planning on our part.
Quite simply and without malice: Learn to play the game. Forget what other MMO's have taught you because this game is completely different. Empty your glass grasshopper, class is in session if you're up for it.
LOL. Funny you say that EVE is not WoW PvP with "high levels" + "leet gear" + "good guild" = winner, but then you also say that EVE PvP is "skill points" + "ship size/fitting/resists" + "good corp" = winner
Pretty funny LOL.
But that is just more diversions by a vet cluching onto their skill point advantage. You can never get a vet to give up their skill point advantage (think levels in WoW, if you could actually never get to equal level as the long-timers).
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Vets of the game knows that SP is not everything.
That is also one reason to why my corp kicks some veterans but keeps some new players.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
And what good would it do to have such a ship if you didn't know how to work well with a fleet? It's funny, the guys you're cursing for having all those skill points took the time to get them, yet you can't? Cry me a river. Frankly, with your attitude it's just as well you don't play. Eve isn't for everyone and that's fine with me and apparently it's fine with CCP. Imagine that, a game developer who feels the integrity of their game is more important than making lots of money by making it too accessible and overly easy.
I hesitated to say yes mainly because of what was written alongside the yes but my answer still is yes, it would be cool if they did that. I find it easy to accept this because, knowing how CCP has handled skill changes (e.g the recent removal of Connection skill books and the learning skills) I believe they would give every veteran player 10mil SP to play with. Now why I don't think CCP will actually do it is because CCP WILL HAVE TO GIVE 10 FECKING MIL SP to EVERY VET PLAYER.... that's like saying hey guys why don't you go just fly every ship you want, just go treat yourself to a new titan or something...
Nope CCP definitely wouldn't do that.
This is not a game.
You have reasons of your own that makes you only have eyes for a command ship and I trust that people already have tried to convince you that you should look at other things meanwhile you get to the point you can field a command ship.
CCP have already accelerated the learning curve for new players during the years, and they have alse given us the options accelerate it even further. This is not enough today. Point being in the end the time it takes to get things is always to long for some people.
I honestly do not want to offend you too much here, but seeing as you have the mind set so hard on that command ship I believe you belong to this group of 'some people'.
Currently my best skillplan for a Nighthawk is 119days,4months 10days. That is to long, you want it in 2 months. This is optimized by tools already given to us by CCP from 150days, also note that this 150days is also a shorter time given to us by CCP with changes that we can not do anything about anymore. You are not content with this possibility and I suspect the next group of people will not be content with your 2 months either when that times comes.
This for a ship that is is really quite high up in the tiers.
Neglecting the things you can do during these 4 months, also neglecting the magnitude of options you will get if you prolong this (optimized) training time to let's say 5 months (also optmized) to include small diversions on the training plan.
(What is the things that you expect to accomplish in a command ship anyway that makes you look besides this game that you won't be able to do in other ships ?)
(I also suspect the next topic will be that it takes to much work and time to get the ISK needed in this games.)
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"