Don't want to stomp on anyones perade but this game will fail here.
The concept of perma death is terrible unless a good player can easily avoid hard situations and run away.
I just don't understand the need for people to want to do that to them selfs. Its so masocistic its not even funny. The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. Literally nothing. You couldnt even show your friends what you had or what you did in the game because your character is dead and gone everything lost.
But I guess more power to those that want it, hopefully none of you brake your computer that play this game. I know I won't because ill probably brake something.
Because the time we spend in mmorpgs goes to something?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
in the 80's if some of you actually played the originals we used to do things like
Grind Greater demons for hours on end
Grind 4 groups of berserkers x99 for hours
Grind City Guards for hours on end aboard our frigates.
Grind Jousters for hours on end
AND WE LOVED IT!!!!!!
And Creeping Coins!
Creeping Coins were great and sucky at the same time. Good xp but man did those battles take forever!
"Grind City Guards for hours on end aboard our frigates."
That reminds me of Ultima 2
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
in the 80's if some of you actually played the originals we used to do things like
Grind Greater demons for hours on end
Grind 4 groups of berserkers x99 for hours
Grind City Guards for hours on end aboard our frigates.
Grind Jousters for hours on end
AND WE LOVED IT!!!!!!
And Creeping Coins!
Creeping Coins were great and sucky at the same time. Good xp but man did those battles take forever!
"Grind City Guards for hours on end aboard our frigates."
That reminds me of Ultima 2
ahh yes I forgot about the creepy coins!. I hope the Vorpal Bunnies dont get out of hand.
"Grind City Guards" Yep Ultima 2 and 3 both, they gave the best exp in game (20 exp per ) I think. My Lark loved them!
also dont forget level 1 Murphy's Ghosts. Those were insane EXP. I dont think in the 10 yrs I played Wiz 1, I ever visited level 6 or 7. It was get to the teleporter, farm on 8 for a bit, then head down to 9 and drop in the Chute. I wish I could get Wiz 1 going again, only have it on floppy, I would love to play it hardcore mode and see If I can get my "Chevron" with all chars level 13 like its supposedly made for. I think the first time I actually ever beat Werdna all my guys were 20+
If only it wasn't a foreign company that was doing it, I really look foward to returning to playing a mmorpg where risk/reward means something, where team work pays off. I just tend to be doubtful of companies pulling off a game that will draw many of us when they aren't from our culture. Cultural differences and points of view make for rather odd game results/game play/game mechanics.
I just don't understand the need for people to want to do that to them selfs. Its so masocistic its not even funny. The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. Literally nothing. You couldnt even show your friends what you had or what you did in the game because your character is dead and gone everything lost.
Well it worked quite well for Wizardry. Enough to have a cult following and have total of 8 games, about a dozen of console ports and other things, not to mention set up the basics of what is rpg.
It also worked well for alot of the earlier online rpgs. The text based ones. Some had quite intensive combat mechanics systems. Most of them didn't have an "auto" perma death, there 'were" ways to avoid it or there were puzzles to solve to get out of what ever Hades you were in to get back to your body. Also player character raises, which made those who could raise someone everyone wanted in a group.
- Game focus is to make monsters actually terrifying and making sure that players HAVE to consider their odds and realize that sometimes its better to run the hell away.
Been wanting this, personally, for years... doubt the average player will see an unstoppable antagonist as anything other than an annoying setback. This above line makes me think of super-hard uniques that you need to really group up against, but for others it probably conjures thoughts of that guy from Resident Evil: Nemesis. Even I hated that guy.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Originally posted by onlinenow25 (snip) The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. (snip)
Honestly if those hours were spent having fun in an environment heightened with a sense of actual gain/loss then they aren't lost at all. I call those hours well spent.
You and a handfull of other people. For all the other people thats needed to keep a game in business, the will show up kick the tires and wander off because of the rule set. Enjoy the ghost town that will become this game over time.
I just don't understand the need for people to want to do that to them selfs. Its so masocistic its not even funny. The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. Literally nothing. You couldnt even show your friends what you had or what you did in the game because your character is dead and gone everything lost.
Well it worked quite well for Wizardry. Enough to have a cult following and have total of 8 games, about a dozen of console ports and other things, not to mention set up the basics of what is rpg.
It worked well for a game you payed for once, not a game you will continually need to invest in to play competetively, isnt this obvious?
I'll confess that this game has my interest for a number of reasons, several of which have already been posted.
I played the original game series on the Apple IIe and Apple IIc computers back in the day. And they were fun. The idea of death being a major problem for a player and having only one shot at getting things straightened out as a ghost... Very gritty idea on their part.
The thing I'm really seeing though is that this is going to be Free To Play. Unlike other Free to Play games with a cash shop, the only character you'd be investing in is one that can die and be gone very, very easily. So I would imagine the cash shop would include substantial perks (special races and class options), apperance items and alterations, quality of life items (loot bags, various potions), etc.
Where other Free to Play games come up short in value, this one might actually be a big hit due to character longevity already having a timer on it. You die twice, and you're gone. People will view it less as an MMORPG and more as an Arcade style fighting game, like say, Atari's Gauntlet. You knew you were going to die eventually. The question was, how far could you go, and how much could you get done?
I want this thing to succeed. New and fresh ideas brought to a gaming market encourage great things from other programmers and producers that watch things unfold. The industry ALWAYS needs that.
Now ive seen it all, first there was the Pay 2 play model, a model that says give us X every month and we will give you everything we have. Then came F2P and they said give us 5 x what you paid for a P2P game and we will give you everything we have. Now comes the new model. Give us 5 x what you did for a P2P game and we will give you everything we have then take it all away so you can start over. Priceless. LIne up suckers.
I just don't understand the need for people to want to do that to them selfs. Its so masocistic its not even funny. The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. Literally nothing. You couldnt even show your friends what you had or what you did in the game because your character is dead and gone everything lost.
Well it worked quite well for Wizardry. Enough to have a cult following and have total of 8 games, about a dozen of console ports and other things, not to mention set up the basics of what is rpg.
Uh, not quite. In all Wizardry games you could save your game. If your party wiped, you simply reloaded to your previous saved game. I noticed in the Youtube video you posted, that the player was in Normal mode, meaning he could save anytime out of combat.
"Ironman" mode was available in Wiz 8 and 7, which is your permadeath. It had to be chosen by the player. However, even this is different from a MMO environment in that it took your whole party of 6 individuals + the 2 tag-along NPC's to kick the bucket for your game to be lost vs only one guy dying in an MMO. Also, Wizardry never had corpse runs.
Wizardry also had an unconcious state that occured before death, giving the party member a cushion between life and death. I wonder if the MMO will have that? Also, at higher levels, if a party member bit it, you could ressurect him. Will this game have that? Or will ressurections have to be bought in the Item Mall?
The original Wizardry game gave the player all the resources in game needed to succeed and stay alive. Since this MMO is going to be an Item Mall game, I can easily see how players will be extorted into buying pots and such, for if they don't, they'll be more likely to die and lose everything. I think I would be more stoked if this was a subscription pay model for this reason.
The original Wizardry series never had PVP, let alone FFA PVP. This makes a HUGE difference.
I loved the wizardry games. I am looking forward to seeing how this one does. I wish it the best, but I had to point out that the "8 games with a cult following" had very different rules of play from the upcomming title: Mainly they weren't or didn't have-- MMORPG, Item Mall, PVP, Grouping/Partying with Smacktards and forced Permadeath.
(snip) The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. (snip)
Honestly if those hours were spent having fun in an environment heightened with a sense of actual gain/loss then they aren't lost at all. I call those hours well spent.
You know what else is time well spent? Going to vegas and losing all your money at the blackjack table and driving home going ya that was totally worth it I had so much fun losing all my money that it doesnt matter............ Uh ya.
(snip) The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. (snip)
Honestly if those hours were spent having fun in an environment heightened with a sense of actual gain/loss then they aren't lost at all. I call those hours well spent.
You know what else is time well spent? Going to vegas and losing all your money at the blackjack table and driving home going ya that was totally worth it I had so much fun losing all my money that it doesnt matter............ Uh ya.
The point, however, is that people actually do that... lots of them.. over and over and over. Because the fun is in the anticipation, all of the ups and downs a long the way, the hanging on to the last thread of hope... then losing, and coming back to try again another day.
(snip) The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. (snip)
Honestly if those hours were spent having fun in an environment heightened with a sense of actual gain/loss then they aren't lost at all. I call those hours well spent.
You know what else is time well spent? Going to vegas and losing all your money at the blackjack table and driving home going ya that was totally worth it I had so much fun losing all my money that it doesnt matter............ Uh ya.
The point, however, is that people actually do that... lots of them.. over and over and over. Because the fun is in the anticipation, all of the ups and downs a long the way, the hanging on to the last thread of hope... then losing, and coming back to try again another day.
I know your totally right thats what makes it so sad.
(snip) The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. (snip)
Honestly if those hours were spent having fun in an environment heightened with a sense of actual gain/loss then they aren't lost at all. I call those hours well spent.
You know what else is time well spent? Going to vegas and losing all your money at the blackjack table and driving home going ya that was totally worth it I had so much fun losing all my money that it doesnt matter............ Uh ya.
The point, however, is that people actually do that... lots of them.. over and over and over. Because the fun is in the anticipation, all of the ups and downs a long the way, the hanging on to the last thread of hope... then losing, and coming back to try again another day.
I know your totally right thats what makes it so sad.
(snip) The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. (snip)
Honestly if those hours were spent having fun in an environment heightened with a sense of actual gain/loss then they aren't lost at all. I call those hours well spent.
You know what else is time well spent? Going to vegas and losing all your money at the blackjack table and driving home going ya that was totally worth it I had so much fun losing all my money that it doesnt matter............ Uh ya.
The point, however, is that people actually do that... lots of them.. over and over and over. Because the fun is in the anticipation, all of the ups and downs a long the way, the hanging on to the last thread of hope... then losing, and coming back to try again another day.
And more often than not, breaking even or winning for me. Some times losing. But that is what the current themepark state of mmorpg gaming is without; losing.
Everyone is entiteled to be a winner, for everything. . .even walking! You walked to another town +50 exp! rofl
The welfare and affirmative action player-base might not like "this" particular game.
Originally posted by alderdale Originally posted by MuffinStump
Originally posted by onlinenow25 (snip) The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. (snip)
Honestly if those hours were spent having fun in an environment heightened with a sense of actual gain/loss then they aren't lost at all. I call those hours well spent.
You know what else is time well spent? Going to vegas and losing all your money at the blackjack table and driving home going ya that was totally worth it I had so much fun losing all my money that it doesnt matter............ Uh ya.
Well MMO rewards aren't exactly as tangible as real money are they? :P
I could just as easily respond that if you go to Vegas and win every time how satisfying can it be if you are given 'Vegas Bucks' that can only be spent on rent for your chair so you can keep playing? Sit in your chair long enough and they give you 'Extra Special Vegas Bucks'.
im willing to bet they have different server types
Perma Death just being one of them. I could see them having a Permadeath pve server, I would be all for that, the last thing I want to do is run into 8 people who like to just gank solo players.
Comments
Because the time we spend in mmorpgs goes to something?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
And Creeping Coins!
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Creeping Coins were great and sucky at the same time. Good xp but man did those battles take forever!
"Grind City Guards for hours on end aboard our frigates."
That reminds me of Ultima 2
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Looks very, very interesting, definently a game to look forward to for now.
ahh yes I forgot about the creepy coins!. I hope the Vorpal Bunnies dont get out of hand.
"Grind City Guards" Yep Ultima 2 and 3 both, they gave the best exp in game (20 exp per ) I think. My Lark loved them!
also dont forget level 1 Murphy's Ghosts. Those were insane EXP. I dont think in the 10 yrs I played Wiz 1, I ever visited level 6 or 7. It was get to the teleporter, farm on 8 for a bit, then head down to 9 and drop in the Chute. I wish I could get Wiz 1 going again, only have it on floppy, I would love to play it hardcore mode and see If I can get my "Chevron" with all chars level 13 like its supposedly made for. I think the first time I actually ever beat Werdna all my guys were 20+
heres to Evil Lords, and Good Ninjas!
If only it wasn't a foreign company that was doing it, I really look foward to returning to playing a mmorpg where risk/reward means something, where team work pays off. I just tend to be doubtful of companies pulling off a game that will draw many of us when they aren't from our culture. Cultural differences and points of view make for rather odd game results/game play/game mechanics.
If I was 16 I would say something like "You are not prepared!". To be honest thats what I wan't to say but I'm not 16. 16 year olds are stupid;)
It also worked well for alot of the earlier online rpgs. The text based ones. Some had quite intensive combat mechanics systems. Most of them didn't have an "auto" perma death, there 'were" ways to avoid it or there were puzzles to solve to get out of what ever Hades you were in to get back to your body. Also player character raises, which made those who could raise someone everyone wanted in a group.
Been wanting this, personally, for years... doubt the average player will see an unstoppable antagonist as anything other than an annoying setback. This above line makes me think of super-hard uniques that you need to really group up against, but for others it probably conjures thoughts of that guy from Resident Evil: Nemesis. Even I hated that guy.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Honestly if those hours were spent having fun in an environment heightened with a sense of actual gain/loss then they aren't lost at all. I call those hours well spent.
You and a handfull of other people. For all the other people thats needed to keep a game in business, the will show up kick the tires and wander off because of the rule set. Enjoy the ghost town that will become this game over time.
It worked well for a game you payed for once, not a game you will continually need to invest in to play competetively, isnt this obvious?
I'll confess that this game has my interest for a number of reasons, several of which have already been posted.
I played the original game series on the Apple IIe and Apple IIc computers back in the day. And they were fun. The idea of death being a major problem for a player and having only one shot at getting things straightened out as a ghost... Very gritty idea on their part.
The thing I'm really seeing though is that this is going to be Free To Play. Unlike other Free to Play games with a cash shop, the only character you'd be investing in is one that can die and be gone very, very easily. So I would imagine the cash shop would include substantial perks (special races and class options), apperance items and alterations, quality of life items (loot bags, various potions), etc.
Where other Free to Play games come up short in value, this one might actually be a big hit due to character longevity already having a timer on it. You die twice, and you're gone. People will view it less as an MMORPG and more as an Arcade style fighting game, like say, Atari's Gauntlet. You knew you were going to die eventually. The question was, how far could you go, and how much could you get done?
I want this thing to succeed. New and fresh ideas brought to a gaming market encourage great things from other programmers and producers that watch things unfold. The industry ALWAYS needs that.
Now ive seen it all, first there was the Pay 2 play model, a model that says give us X every month and we will give you everything we have. Then came F2P and they said give us 5 x what you paid for a P2P game and we will give you everything we have. Now comes the new model. Give us 5 x what you did for a P2P game and we will give you everything we have then take it all away so you can start over. Priceless. LIne up suckers.
Uh, not quite. In all Wizardry games you could save your game. If your party wiped, you simply reloaded to your previous saved game. I noticed in the Youtube video you posted, that the player was in Normal mode, meaning he could save anytime out of combat.
"Ironman" mode was available in Wiz 8 and 7, which is your permadeath. It had to be chosen by the player. However, even this is different from a MMO environment in that it took your whole party of 6 individuals + the 2 tag-along NPC's to kick the bucket for your game to be lost vs only one guy dying in an MMO. Also, Wizardry never had corpse runs.
Wizardry also had an unconcious state that occured before death, giving the party member a cushion between life and death. I wonder if the MMO will have that? Also, at higher levels, if a party member bit it, you could ressurect him. Will this game have that? Or will ressurections have to be bought in the Item Mall?
The original Wizardry game gave the player all the resources in game needed to succeed and stay alive. Since this MMO is going to be an Item Mall game, I can easily see how players will be extorted into buying pots and such, for if they don't, they'll be more likely to die and lose everything. I think I would be more stoked if this was a subscription pay model for this reason.
The original Wizardry series never had PVP, let alone FFA PVP. This makes a HUGE difference.
I loved the wizardry games. I am looking forward to seeing how this one does. I wish it the best, but I had to point out that the "8 games with a cult following" had very different rules of play from the upcomming title: Mainly they weren't or didn't have-- MMORPG, Item Mall, PVP, Grouping/Partying with Smacktards and forced Permadeath.
You know what else is time well spent? Going to vegas and losing all your money at the blackjack table and driving home going ya that was totally worth it I had so much fun losing all my money that it doesnt matter............ Uh ya.
The point, however, is that people actually do that... lots of them.. over and over and over. Because the fun is in the anticipation, all of the ups and downs a long the way, the hanging on to the last thread of hope... then losing, and coming back to try again another day.
fairy ninjas? I am trying to remember what i had in wizardry 7 heh
I know your totally right thats what makes it so sad.
Why does everyone get so sad whenever I'm right?
Hmm, perma death stuff is risky even if you become a ghost.
Server lag, disconnections and Windows usual issues are all making games like this rather risky.
I would actually give it a better chance on a PS3 (no Microsoft OS lowers the chance of hardware/software releated deaths).
Still, it could be really fun, but I know that losing a character becuase something like that would make the game loose players fast...
And more often than not, breaking even or winning for me. Some times losing. But that is what the current themepark state of mmorpg gaming is without; losing.
Everyone is entiteled to be a winner, for everything. . .even walking! You walked to another town +50 exp! rofl
The welfare and affirmative action player-base might not like "this" particular game.
Honestly if those hours were spent having fun in an environment heightened with a sense of actual gain/loss then they aren't lost at all. I call those hours well spent.
You know what else is time well spent? Going to vegas and losing all your money at the blackjack table and driving home going ya that was totally worth it I had so much fun losing all my money that it doesnt matter............ Uh ya.
Well MMO rewards aren't exactly as tangible as real money are they? :P
I could just as easily respond that if you go to Vegas and win every time how satisfying can it be if you are given 'Vegas Bucks' that can only be spent on rent for your chair so you can keep playing? Sit in your chair long enough and they give you 'Extra Special Vegas Bucks'.
Sounds like a Twilight Zone episode to me.
im willing to bet they have different server types
Perma Death just being one of them. I could see them having a Permadeath pve server, I would be all for that, the last thing I want to do is run into 8 people who like to just gank solo players.
This game doesnt even appear to be a MMORPG at all. its a Lobby Diablo clone
Philosophy of MMO Game Design