Interesting to note the specific wording there "ASPECTS of this are already..." Will this be implemented piecemeal? Will it be like fishing? Let's see what they say...
Personally, I'm wondering why a video was selected as the medium to provide information about this type of system.
What better way to build hype? SV does have a talent for making awesome videos.
The only talent I have yet to see from them is pr hype, yes I would agree with you.
So what's the point of owning any land but cities? Nothing about resource control was mentioned in the video.
Blatant oversight or am I missing something?
I would guess none of that has been worked out. There really isnt much info in the video, just a guy running around dropping "totems/flags". Where are the guts of the system?
So what's the point of owning any land but cities? Nothing about resource control was mentioned in the video.
Blatant oversight or am I missing something?
put taxes for the constructions and i think thant choose flags for diferent guild and people. the tax ssystem is like actual system but dinamic, you can dostroy the little towers to make this guild lose control on their territory.
So what's the point of owning any land but cities? Nothing about resource control was mentioned in the video.
Blatant oversight or am I missing something?
put taxes for the constructions and i think thant choose flags for diferent guild and people. the tax ssystem is like actual system but dinamic, you can dostroy the little towers to make this guild lose control on their territory.
So what's the point of owning a house when you're just being taxed up the butt by guilds and maintaining rent?
So what's the point of owning any land but cities? Nothing about resource control was mentioned in the video.
Blatant oversight or am I missing something?
put taxes for the constructions and i think thant choose flags for diferent guild and people. the tax ssystem is like actual system but dinamic, you can dostroy the little towers to make this guild lose control on their territory.
So what's the point of owning a house when you're just being taxed up the butt by guilds and maintaining rent?
I foresee a whole new level of "grief play" if this is ever implemented.
For any changes to the siege mechanics, I will sit down with Henrik and talk where things are going to go. As you say there are frustrations with the system, so at some point in time it will get looked at. Whether actual changes to sieges will come with this update, I cannot yet say.
I will release more information in regards to this when there is something definitive.
Also guys, don't ask for specifics yet, a lot of it will get changed around and juggled as we see what will work and what won't. Consider this at a slightly more advanced stage in the development than the Horse Equipment Teaser that I showed to you guys a while ago.
This should be interesting, SVs "plan" seems a little backwards.
Wasn't the "Horse Equipment" teaser posted in April?
Here's some answers he had about towers and control points:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artorius
-I understand the actual territory system will be deleted and we will have to build these towers to expand our territory, how large are the territory of each tower?
They start with a few meters in radius. That small area yields Control Points (CP). Those CP can be spent on increasing the radius further, meaning more area, in turn earning more CP. Alternatively, you spend those CP on added Defense/Offense or other things.
A Tower can only handle a certain number of CP, but that number can be increased by upgrades (tiers). We are still playing around with and testing the max radii of the Towers and Keeps.
Towers with intersecting areas forms a Cluster, and all CP's in that Cluster can be freely distributed between the Towers in the Cluster. The goal is therefore to have your Keep and all your Towers in the same Cluster. Towers in the same cluster as the Keep are connected to the "supply chain".
You can only place Towers within a certain distance from your Towers/Keep, not counting Towers that aren't part of the supply chain.
In other words, if you "cut off" a Cluster from the supply chain by destroying a Tower in the middle, your opponent cannot expand from that Cluster until the supply chain has been restored. Furthermore, the cut-off Cluster will have its own CP Pool and cannot be boosted by the other Cluster - and vice versa.
I swear people need to remember and not forget the track record. It took about 6 months to fix guild stones and proper guild flagging and a halfway wardec system.. What makes anyone think SV can pull this thing of in a short amount of time and have it actually work. I am not being an ass I am being serious. Look at the track record!!
The key behind the territory system we are implementing now is to give a real reason for keeps, and a reason to fight for control and power.
Where Keeps and houses are long term goals/sieges c towers are more of a "short"/ongoing term goals, They are meant to be somewhat cheap to build and somewhat fast to construct. As easy to destroy. However they can be upgraded to be stronger of the costs of CPs.
I also want to clarify that we are still building and focusing on AI, GUI and magic. Which also will give more features to the territory system.
We have carefully been planning the territory system to be fun for not only largest guilds and best pvpers, since there is a guild pool everyone contribute with anyone can help in the conquering. We believe this will make the game more interesting for all kind of players also those not interesting in conquering land but contribute in what they are best in. But of course being good at pvping is always a solid way to earn control and guild pool on.
Something that is challenging for us at this point is the amount of keeps and space between them. We think we are going to try to continue with the amount we have today and see how that works. As you know we are looking for more testers for our test server, so sign up for that to help us !
You are not forced to hit the keeps to stop the enemies, that’s one way though, but to focus on the control towers that allows them to spread in Myrland that way you shut down the control of anothers keep.
We have managed to build a dynamic placement system for towers, and we may be able to use similar function for house placement, but this will not be in for now, and we are not if we want to use that for Myrland continent yet. As someone also said, the world could end up in one major city, if that’s good or bad is another question. We will most likely prevent some areas to build able in when it comes to housing. Towers are more free however, easy to knock down, both by players and AI in some cases.
The political real time map is there to show the conflicts and updates, so anyone can participate and alert when something is under attack.
We are also looking to let players that pve/craft contribute to the guild pool.
The guild pool is important when it comes to setting and using special rules/functions, such as "banning" a certain player from a city. (Making him grey when entering the zone) this is not the same pool as the control pool you get from building a control tower.
There’s been an interest in alliance system as well, which wont be in the first iteration, but it will be in, as soon as we have a moment over for that.
I’m hoping to be able to share some more info in details about this system later. The video was released early and gave a lot of questions, but I think it was interesting enough to get it before all details cleared out over time.
We have come far in a very fast pace with this system, and we are excited to hear the feedback from the external tester group. As soon as it is stable and the balance is within the range we are aiming for we will go live with the system. It is built to be very expandable with new features as soon as our AI/GUI/Magic is in order as well.
Well I Am glad he admitted that keeps are useless and have been for the past year.
The video was released early does that mean this will be out in 2-3 months?? While they finish developing it? I really think the vidoe was a hype machine to keep people subbing for the next 2-5 months while they get some developing done. Because even they know that the game right now is boring to play. Throw a little dash of hope on it and maybe people can play through. Or they know Dark Falls new siege mechanics are coming out in the next week or 2 and do not want to lose the precious subs they have to buy them ramen noodles.
Henrik can say MO2, MO3, MO Dawn all he wants. Just remember how EPIC patch went, how the Dawn patch err I mean expantion went or any patch that had content in it. VERY BUGGY and stuff still does not work.
Well I Am glad he admitted that keeps are useless and have been for the past year.
The video was released early does that mean this will be out in 2-3 months?? While they finish developing it? I really think the vidoe was a hype machine to keep people subbing for the next 2-5 months while they get some developing done. Because even they know that the game right now is boring to play. Throw a little dash of hope on it and maybe people can play through. Or they know Dark Falls new siege mechanics are coming out in the next week or 2 and do not want to lose the precious subs they have to buy them ramen noodles.
Henrik can say MO2, MO3, MO Dawn all he wants. Just remember how EPIC patch went, how the Dawn patch err I mean expantion went or any patch that had content in it. VERY BUGGY and stuff still does not work.
Agreed, it's just another PR stunt really. Even though I really like the concept and the ideas behind this feature, the whole thing comes down to whether SV will be able to implement it in a working fashion or not. Let's just say I have my doubts about that. Hell, I like most of SV's ideas, it's the implementation and design priorities that suck.
Even if the whole process will be mostly bug-free and void of exploits - and whoever believes that will be the case should have his head examined btw - some serious concerns remain when it comes the system itself and how it will work out.
For example, what will be the real point of owning and maintaining a territory? As it is, there is not much to fight over, and as long as the game is full of bugs and exploits, PvP as a whole will be suffering. For example, people can easily glitch into some keeps due to slow loading times - something pretty discouraging if you want to rule a region. The game doesn't support large-scale battles either, promoting ninja sieges and other easy, boring ways to "win" in PvP.
If players are supposed to commit themselves to owning and controlling an empire, there need to be some kind of reward for the effort. The ability to turn the guardzones off and blacklist individual players to make them killable in your territory will perhaps entertain the griefing and shit-talking part of the community for a while, but not for long I'm afraid. And everyone else - PvErs, soloers, crafters, socializers, anyone not in a major guild basically - will have an even harder time.
But I guess SV don't care; they just desperately try to keep the PvP junkies subbing - it's been their strategy from the start.
I am paying attention to the thread in the official forums as well as I hope anyone that posts on this is. Is it me or does it seem they are figuring out what this will be on the fly as well with player input?
I also found this part funny it seems Henrik does not know the mechanics of his own game.
What if a guild owns 2 keeps? How does that affect control area and control points? How does this differ with the keeps being in 2 completely separate areas of the continent, or potentially in the same vicinity of each other? If they're in the same vicinity does it just strengthen the guild's hold on the area?
As for now only one guild can own one keep, you can start a new guild in another keep. We will implement alliance system as well that helps this area.
One guild can only have one guild stone.
So those two keeps/guilds would be treated as two seperate keeps with their own CPs.
Right now you wouldnt really need another keep as you can continue to grow with new control towers.
As for now only one guild can own one keep, you can start a new guild in another keep. We will implement alliance system as well that helps this area.
One guild can only have one guild stone.
Henrik, are you serious about that ? Or did I totally misread what you wrote ? Currently guilds have multiple guild assets and multiple guildstones. What effect will this change have to them ?
Why do you want to remove the ability of having extra guildstones ? It was part of all the system to allow backups for emergencies.
Why shouldn't a guild be able to own two keeps with two stones ? In my view this would just be like any other second guildstone, and the territory control system could just query if the guild has at least one keep with a guildstone in it.
Also, as asked above, with only one guildstone the guildbank system will no longer work, at least no for guilds that own a guild keep or guild house.
What you wrote seems to contradict the existing game mechanics. Please elaborate.
Is anyone surprised that Henrik does not know the basics of his own game? I doubt he even plays it, given this and his proclamations about "MO 2.0" etc.
I think the reason for this can easily be determined by looking at his forum signature. He appears to be far more interested in having "CEO and Game Designer" next to his picture and name than actually being a CEO and game designer.
Is anyone surprised that Henrik does not know the basics of his own game? I doubt he even plays it, given this and his proclamations about "MO 2.0" etc.
I think the reason for this can easily be determined by looking at his forum signature. He appears to be far more interested in having "CEO and Game Designer" next to his picture and name than actually being a CEO and game designer.
This is hilarious...
They implemented guild storage shacks not too long ago... in order to use it you MUST put a second guildstone inside the building. It's a core mechanic having multiple guildstones.
I am flabbergasted that people are clamoring for this update when every update in the past, despite how big or small, has been basically a total and unmititigated disaster. This will be no different, you cannot build new and complex systems upon systems that barely stand up on their own weight.
I suppose that some people are gluttons for punishment, and saying "OMG wow amazing" to these posts when the sneak peek video is basically a guy putting up a bunch of sticks with no visualization on how it will actually work or it actually WORKING is beyond amazing, and beyond stupid.
Comments
Then they wouldn't have anything to hype now. A "sleeping,eating and horse peeing" videoe wouldn't have the same appeal.
I win!!! LOL@U
The only talent I have yet to see from them is pr hype, yes I would agree with you.
So what's the point of owning any land but cities? Nothing about resource control was mentioned in the video.
Blatant oversight or am I missing something?
I would guess none of that has been worked out. There really isnt much info in the video, just a guy running around dropping "totems/flags". Where are the guts of the system?
Reminds me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEXvsGe657Q
I win!!! LOL@U
You know how it works. It's the system that Henrik came up with 3-4 months after Release.
put taxes for the constructions and i think thant choose flags for diferent guild and people. the tax ssystem is like actual system but dinamic, you can dostroy the little towers to make this guild lose control on their territory.
You mean this concept been danglign out there for a good while, despite them saying its a responce to players wishes?
So what's the point of owning a house when you're just being taxed up the butt by guilds and maintaining rent?
I foresee a whole new level of "grief play" if this is ever implemented.
I win!!! LOL@U
#55 (permalink)
Black Opal
Community Manager
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 669
Rep Power: 15
For any changes to the siege mechanics, I will sit down with Henrik and talk where things are going to go. As you say there are frustrations with the system, so at some point in time it will get looked at. Whether actual changes to sieges will come with this update, I cannot yet say.
I will release more information in regards to this when there is something definitive.
Also guys, don't ask for specifics yet, a lot of it will get changed around and juggled as we see what will work and what won't. Consider this at a slightly more advanced stage in the development than the Horse Equipment Teaser that I showed to you guys a while ago.
This should be interesting, SVs "plan" seems a little backwards.
Wasn't the "Horse Equipment" teaser posted in April?
I win!!! LOL@U
Mats has answered a lot of different questions about the territorial control system, towers, flagging, etc:
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/66774-territory-control-update-3.html#post1209150
Here's some answers he had about towers and control points:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artorius
-I understand the actual territory system will be deleted and we will have to build these towers to expand our territory, how large are the territory of each tower?
They start with a few meters in radius. That small area yields Control Points (CP). Those CP can be spent on increasing the radius further, meaning more area, in turn earning more CP. Alternatively, you spend those CP on added Defense/Offense or other things.
A Tower can only handle a certain number of CP, but that number can be increased by upgrades (tiers). We are still playing around with and testing the max radii of the Towers and Keeps.
Towers with intersecting areas forms a Cluster, and all CP's in that Cluster can be freely distributed between the Towers in the Cluster. The goal is therefore to have your Keep and all your Towers in the same Cluster. Towers in the same cluster as the Keep are connected to the "supply chain".
You can only place Towers within a certain distance from your Towers/Keep, not counting Towers that aren't part of the supply chain.
In other words, if you "cut off" a Cluster from the supply chain by destroying a Tower in the middle, your opponent cannot expand from that Cluster until the supply chain has been restored. Furthermore, the cut-off Cluster will have its own CP Pool and cannot be boosted by the other Cluster - and vice versa.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
I swear people need to remember and not forget the track record. It took about 6 months to fix guild stones and proper guild flagging and a halfway wardec system.. What makes anyone think SV can pull this thing of in a short amount of time and have it actually work. I am not being an ass I am being serious. Look at the track record!!
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5056/5405334463_871abcda69_z.jpg
If you control a town you be able to turn the guard zone off . only MK and fab will not be conquerable.
[Mod Edit - Please use a link rather than pasting large sections of images.]
Good that he admits that this is pretty much first real "tool" players are getting, rest are half arsed features with little sandbox to them.
Henrik provided some additional feedback on this and some other systems in the works:
#147 (permalink)
Henrik Nystrom
CEO
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 757
Rep Power: 15
The key behind the territory system we are implementing now is to give a real reason for keeps, and a reason to fight for control and power.
Where Keeps and houses are long term goals/sieges c towers are more of a "short"/ongoing term goals, They are meant to be somewhat cheap to build and somewhat fast to construct. As easy to destroy. However they can be upgraded to be stronger of the costs of CPs.
I also want to clarify that we are still building and focusing on AI, GUI and magic. Which also will give more features to the territory system.
We have carefully been planning the territory system to be fun for not only largest guilds and best pvpers, since there is a guild pool everyone contribute with anyone can help in the conquering. We believe this will make the game more interesting for all kind of players also those not interesting in conquering land but contribute in what they are best in. But of course being good at pvping is always a solid way to earn control and guild pool on.
Something that is challenging for us at this point is the amount of keeps and space between them. We think we are going to try to continue with the amount we have today and see how that works. As you know we are looking for more testers for our test server, so sign up for that to help us !
You are not forced to hit the keeps to stop the enemies, that’s one way though, but to focus on the control towers that allows them to spread in Myrland that way you shut down the control of anothers keep.
We have managed to build a dynamic placement system for towers, and we may be able to use similar function for house placement, but this will not be in for now, and we are not if we want to use that for Myrland continent yet. As someone also said, the world could end up in one major city, if that’s good or bad is another question. We will most likely prevent some areas to build able in when it comes to housing. Towers are more free however, easy to knock down, both by players and AI in some cases.
The political real time map is there to show the conflicts and updates, so anyone can participate and alert when something is under attack.
We are also looking to let players that pve/craft contribute to the guild pool.
The guild pool is important when it comes to setting and using special rules/functions, such as "banning" a certain player from a city. (Making him grey when entering the zone) this is not the same pool as the control pool you get from building a control tower.
There’s been an interest in alliance system as well, which wont be in the first iteration, but it will be in, as soon as we have a moment over for that.
I’m hoping to be able to share some more info in details about this system later. The video was released early and gave a lot of questions, but I think it was interesting enough to get it before all details cleared out over time.
We have come far in a very fast pace with this system, and we are excited to hear the feedback from the external tester group. As soon as it is stable and the balance is within the range we are aiming for we will go live with the system. It is built to be very expandable with new features as soon as our AI/GUI/Magic is in order as well.
Thanks
__________________
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Well I Am glad he admitted that keeps are useless and have been for the past year.
The video was released early does that mean this will be out in 2-3 months?? While they finish developing it? I really think the vidoe was a hype machine to keep people subbing for the next 2-5 months while they get some developing done. Because even they know that the game right now is boring to play. Throw a little dash of hope on it and maybe people can play through. Or they know Dark Falls new siege mechanics are coming out in the next week or 2 and do not want to lose the precious subs they have to buy them ramen noodles.
Henrik can say MO2, MO3, MO Dawn all he wants. Just remember how EPIC patch went, how the Dawn patch err I mean expantion went or any patch that had content in it. VERY BUGGY and stuff still does not work.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5056/5405334463_871abcda69_z.jpg
Sounds like they are just going to push something out, then worry about implementation later. status quo
I win!!! LOL@U
Agreed, it's just another PR stunt really. Even though I really like the concept and the ideas behind this feature, the whole thing comes down to whether SV will be able to implement it in a working fashion or not. Let's just say I have my doubts about that. Hell, I like most of SV's ideas, it's the implementation and design priorities that suck.
Even if the whole process will be mostly bug-free and void of exploits - and whoever believes that will be the case should have his head examined btw - some serious concerns remain when it comes the system itself and how it will work out.
For example, what will be the real point of owning and maintaining a territory? As it is, there is not much to fight over, and as long as the game is full of bugs and exploits, PvP as a whole will be suffering. For example, people can easily glitch into some keeps due to slow loading times - something pretty discouraging if you want to rule a region. The game doesn't support large-scale battles either, promoting ninja sieges and other easy, boring ways to "win" in PvP.
If players are supposed to commit themselves to owning and controlling an empire, there need to be some kind of reward for the effort. The ability to turn the guardzones off and blacklist individual players to make them killable in your territory will perhaps entertain the griefing and shit-talking part of the community for a while, but not for long I'm afraid. And everyone else - PvErs, soloers, crafters, socializers, anyone not in a major guild basically - will have an even harder time.
But I guess SV don't care; they just desperately try to keep the PvP junkies subbing - it's been their strategy from the start.
Don't forget the Diva system. One of the main reasons I bought the game. Haven't heard anything about that since release.
http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415
Its all coming "Soon"
I win!!! LOL@U
I am paying attention to the thread in the official forums as well as I hope anyone that posts on this is. Is it me or does it seem they are figuring out what this will be on the fly as well with player input?
I also found this part funny it seems Henrik does not know the mechanics of his own game.
Henrik Nystrom
CEO
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rep Power: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achi||es
What if a guild owns 2 keeps? How does that affect control area and control points? How does this differ with the keeps being in 2 completely separate areas of the continent, or potentially in the same vicinity of each other? If they're in the same vicinity does it just strengthen the guild's hold on the area?
As for now only one guild can own one keep, you can start a new guild in another keep. We will implement alliance system as well that helps this area.
One guild can only have one guild stone.
So those two keeps/guilds would be treated as two seperate keeps with their own CPs.
Right now you wouldnt really need another keep as you can continue to grow with new control towers.
Mauzi
Status King
Join Date: Jun 2009
Rep Power: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik Nystrom
As for now only one guild can own one keep, you can start a new guild in another keep. We will implement alliance system as well that helps this area.
One guild can only have one guild stone.
Henrik, are you serious about that ? Or did I totally misread what you wrote ? Currently guilds have multiple guild assets and multiple guildstones. What effect will this change have to them ?
Why do you want to remove the ability of having extra guildstones ? It was part of all the system to allow backups for emergencies.
Why shouldn't a guild be able to own two keeps with two stones ? In my view this would just be like any other second guildstone, and the territory control system could just query if the guild has at least one keep with a guildstone in it.
Also, as asked above, with only one guildstone the guildbank system will no longer work, at least no for guilds that own a guild keep or guild house.
What you wrote seems to contradict the existing game mechanics. Please elaborate.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5056/5405334463_871abcda69_z.jpg
Is anyone surprised that Henrik does not know the basics of his own game? I doubt he even plays it, given this and his proclamations about "MO 2.0" etc.
I think the reason for this can easily be determined by looking at his forum signature. He appears to be far more interested in having "CEO and Game Designer" next to his picture and name than actually being a CEO and game designer.
This is hilarious...
They implemented guild storage shacks not too long ago... in order to use it you MUST put a second guildstone inside the building. It's a core mechanic having multiple guildstones.
I am flabbergasted that people are clamoring for this update when every update in the past, despite how big or small, has been basically a total and unmititigated disaster. This will be no different, you cannot build new and complex systems upon systems that barely stand up on their own weight.
I suppose that some people are gluttons for punishment, and saying "OMG wow amazing" to these posts when the sneak peek video is basically a guy putting up a bunch of sticks with no visualization on how it will actually work or it actually WORKING is beyond amazing, and beyond stupid.
Why would we? All the negatives are right here, and all the positives are boring.